Airlines often defer maintenance: Kathleen Bangs

Former airline pilot Kathleen Bangs details whether the latest Boeing 737 Max plane safety issue was an engineering, factory or installation problem. #FOXBusiness
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[@acdii]

These door "plugs" are secured with latches and bolts to secure them. The latches require moving the door up and out and then swing them down for inspections, or to switch them out for actual exit doors in the even the seating arrangement changes. There are 4 bolts that are inserted into the latches, torqued and have castle nuts that are then wired so that they cannot unscrew on their own. This has every indication that the bolts were missing since the latches are still in the frame, and the lower hinges that allow the door to move up and down are still intact. The maintenance crew never would have even considered this to be the issue with the pressurization warnings since these bolts are installed at the factory before the interior panels are installed. It takes 8-10 hours to remove the interior panels to inspect the bolts, something that is done at regular intervals during the planes life, but not during the first few months of service. Boeing and the spin off where the fuse is built will take the hit for this, not the airline.

[@DifferentM14]

Excellent explanation, thank you! What you write makes 100% sense. I agree.

[@acdii]

@@DifferentM14 Lookup blancolirio He has a video he recently posted with a GREAT explanation of the system and concurs that without bolts the door can easily come off.

[@ABa-os6wm]

The door fell off. It's in the environment now.

[@jpcaretta8847]

Indeed. Takes 5 min for an engineer to see. Mgt reduced cost by reducing quality control plus cheap labor may be hired according to DEI. Any eng. experienced that, fighting these mbas idiots !

[@modelenginerding6996]

NTSB also hinted that the bolts may not have "existed" in their press conference. 😂 Dudes will lose their jobs but likely will make more working McDonalds with inflation as it is. My hunch with the timing is that this was human factors swiss cheese. Workers were dreaming of Thanksgiving turkey dinner instead of focusing on their job. We shall see.

[@georgesroux520]

Boeing will send a software update

[@ronnie8252]

Funny

[@2148aa]

The update will disable the cabin pressure light.

[@starshiptrooper4506]

And call it a Crash 9!

[@RandallGermaine-kh4sl]

Mechanic here, thought her description about deferred airline maintenance was spot on. And like that she corrected the earlier mistake made by the guest on Neil’s show who erroneously announced the B737-9 Max grounding was lifted when it was not.

[@RandallGermaine-kh4sl]

I’m a B737 mechanic (but not MAX) and the video title is what’s the problem. It misleads the viewer into thinking the guest is saying the plug door ejecting from the jet is “not unusual” and that’s NOT what she’s saying. The pilot is saying that airlines often write up and defer maintenance items via the Minimum Equipment List or MEL, and that’s completely correct. We often have to defer issues if it can be done safely. That is pretty much SOP - standard operating procedure. And if a pilot disagrees with taking a jet with deferred maintenance item, he/she can refuse to accept the jet and they have union protection in that case.

[@jasonbrown4841]

Boeing's new theme song - "Stayin' Alive"! CAPT. Travolta will perform his iconic dance down the isle with ever purchase of a new 737 🤣🤣🤣

[@johnbutera5805]

Hahahaha 😆 😆😆😆 Great visual!!!! 👍

[@jpcaretta8847]

Fire without severance package, anyone in management who hasnt a degree in engineering plus working experience ! Stop DEI hiring. Good enough is not enough ! Bean counters are responsible, quality control costs, yes, good eng., workers cost too so get rid of the talkers, keep the doers. Just look at all these highly paid idiots in the news. ENOUGH

[@carlosbonilla6576]

Loockheed should start making aircrafts now that Boeign is having problems with it's aircrfts. Build something like the L 1011 , that was the aircraft of the future . The Flying Wign.

[@paulferrara9079]

trolling? Lockheed took over Boeing and doing a money before safety biz plan. 🙄

[@UHF43]

​@@paulferrara9079You mean McDonell Douglas? Lockheed exited the civil aviation after the Tristar.

[@paulferrara9079]

@@UHF43 yes oops 😬

[@tomking1890]

This is not the only Max-9 with this issue.

[@mrrolandlawrence]

so glad to hear that boeing aircraft usually fly with fault sheets - so this was no big deal. thank you fox for the insightful update.

[@heresteven]

I blame Alaska. The safety system for cabin pressure worked. Alaska should have looked harder where that leak was.

[@scottjohnston1028]

I believe there is a high probability that the door plug was moving enough during the earlier flights to cause the cabin pressure warning system to trigger but not enough to blow out. From what I have seen on the plug design, the door plug would have to move up between 2 and 3 inches to clear the horizontal top pins that the door needs to be held in place. In order for this door to move up, bolts that are in place to prevent the door from moving up were either not there or they loosened and fell out. If they loosened and fell out, this would indicate that the castle nuts were not cotter pinned. There are four bolts in total and if one top bolt fell out first, the door could potentially vibrate enough to cause the other top bolt to fall out. If one fell out first, this would be enough to trigger the depressurization lights in the cockpit. When the second one fell out, the forces likely caused the door to move up enough to shear the bottom bolts in the hinge pins that would be in place allowing the door to move up just enough then cabin pressure would force it the rest of the way and then outside air would catch the door and rip it fully off. This is assuming the bottom bolts were in place. The only other plausible explanation is that the shear strength of the bolts was totally inadequate for the pressure/wind load on the plug. With reports of loose bolts on other planes, I suspect this was an installation issue where the bolts were not properly torqued initially and then vibration caused the cotter pins to weaken and break thus allowing the castle nuts to rotate off and the bolts to fall out. The up and out motion of this would have been swift once the forces took over from the static installed position of the plug. As far as this is unusual, this will end up showing the swiss cheese model of failure that lead to this failure and not anything typical. There are enough Boeing employee comments about having to work long hours and rushing the work to get orders completed that could affect final quality that may end up being the cause. First steps will be to understand the engineering of the setup overall of the door plug itself to the bolt, nut and cotter pin specs, installation steps, torque specs and working conditions. If torque specs were inadequate, that would be the first issue for example. Next would be resetting the warning lights without knowing the cause. Thankfully, they did restrict the plane from flying over water where they could not easily land due to the suspect depressurization. Finally, the last part of the result will be about not taking this plane out of service after 2 consecutive depressurization warnings due to the financial cost of taking a plane out of service. This will be another Boeing fiasco that fortunately get corrected without fatalities. They will definitely need to refocus on working conditions and inspections. There may be wear/scratches on the hardware that would indicate how this was occurring. Likely, where the ears fit over the stops is were the most evidence will show up as this is the point were the movement would create the wear. The second place will be those bottom hinges/pins that were dangling from the bottom of the opening. There should be marks there that the bottom bolts should have created if they existed. Also, on the plug itself there should be significant marks where the bolts, castle nuts and cotter pins should have existed. It probably will not be that tough of an investigation as there will be good solid evidence of what happened.

[@heresteven]

It is outrageous that it got this far. Air leaks can be detect. They can pressure up to 1.5 times the working pressure.

[@acdii]

1 1/2" is all the travel it needs. Without the bolts, it doesn't take much at all to move the door up.

[@kirkcole320]

Three previous write ups on the cabin pressure system. This plane should have been taken out of service and actually looked at…

[@evacody1249]

🤦‍♂️ they did not know the door would come off. Boeing lied to them so. Tske it out of service to do what. Find the issue? The whole plane would have to be taken apart.

[@peterdetemmerman3034]

Boeing executive red alert we are in crisis mode, we have a drop. The engineer yes we know a door plug released from plane dropped out of the sky. The executive what are you talking about. look at the graphic the share is dropping. Our first obligation is too our shareholders and investors, we lost so much money this is bad. Okay we need a new programma directly cut more costs. lay off some engineers,maintance and safety personnel. They are pure costs, one more or less what does it matter.

[@jpcaretta8847]

Indeed they are likely to reason that way as they already did !

[@jsexton54]

The last guy that worked on the door has 4 bolts sitting on top of his dresser at home !

[@larrybaker5316]

any mechanic worth his salt always has a couple of extra bolts left over.

[@jacobwetherby]

Your YT headline is misleading... she said "sensors going off, and deferring maintenance is not uncommon"... not doors flying off airplanes.

[@heresteven]

Apparently there are pilots who are out of their mind gambling with people's lifes.

[@jacobwetherby]

@@heresteven it's unrealistic to think that every time a light goes on, a plane needs to be grounded. If that were the case, planes would never get off the ground, as there are hundreds of little lights, and sensors. Unfortunately, it's a judgement call... but when isn't it... since the dawn of aviation, every single flight has judgement calls... and in the end, nobody got hurt, this is all thanks to the pilot's decision to descend in a timely fashion.

[@heresteven]

@@jacobwetherby They react to every abnormality when launching rockets. But aviation must be comfortable taking chances. These systems are there because people died before.

[@jacobwetherby]

@@heresteven yeah I see what you're sayin', take a look at some of these cockpit takeoff videos, there's checklists, and huge amounts of lights and switches, overly complicated imo

[@evacody1249]

​@@herestevenit's a 2 month old plane.

[@bobby1970]

So, the way I understand it is, no one was actually sitting in the seat immediately next to the door plug that blew out?

[@rdzhang]

American product quality is getting worse and worse. I have been living in the States over 30 years. It is very difficult to find high quality workers. The majority of people want to make a quick and easy money. No one is pride of what they made. It is sad!

[@jpcaretta8847]

True and worsened by DEI hiring process.

[@dianepamula2765]

Alaska Airlines has wonderful people working there. I’ve met many please don’t blame them

[@heresteven]

Is Boeing at fault? The cabin pressure sensor worked and sent an alarm 3 times. Why didn't Alaska people look harder? The body of the plane is pressure vessel.

[@DileepB]

what other airplanes, Boeing or Airbus, also use door plugs to allow different configurations?

[@larrybaker5316]

what about duct taping the door to the fuselage? NASCAR does it all the time and it seems to work.

[@rizkyp]

Safety is out top priority, the thing is when someone have to say it you know then it is not true. The facts are stating otherwise.

[@Tjgraham125]

If your car light comes on, do you just stop driving it of course not same with the plane to a certain extent use your head people

[@larrybaker5316]

yeah, if a plane light comes on put a piece of electricians tape over it!

[@Robert-vw3od]

Fox business find someone who’s not willing to absolutely rip into Boeing , which is what should be happening. Bing is a company losing tens of million dollars every hour accompany that the general public has very little confidence in and has a proven record of making unsafe aircraft in recent years.

[@nolanohana]

Wrong, this is a brand new jet, 2 months old, total quality control failure by Boeing, period. Audit and manage your suppliers, your responsibility as the final assembler. Boeing has severe quality problems and needs to hire a firm to get them on track, automotive, medical device, etc. plenty of FMEA experts out there to identify root cause of this and all their other issues during assembly.

[@ratratrat59]

buy low, sell high

[@KITLEVEY]

Much respect to the group that decided to keep this bird away from over water flight.

[@florencioigual]

If this incident had happened a few minutes later, the aircraft would have probably been dismantled by the blow... And you find this decision to let the plane fly "much respectable"? 😮

[@cheo4201]

@@florencioigual if I may add. When there is any potential for a plane catastrophe, being over water or land is not going to matter with the out come. Once Alaska knew there were some issues prior to Friday, that plane should have been grounded to allow for a more in depth assessment and perhaps reaching out to Boeing technical support group (this communication happens all the time) to further address and take the proper action. The fact that Alaska knowingly allowed this plane to continue to fly even if not over water, it was negligent on their part. Issues with “all” plane manufacturers must be addressed and corrected with as little risk to humans, but airlines must do their part, but unfortunately grounding an aircraft is a bad for the business. It appears that once again this incident has room for a lot of improvement opportunities for all.

[@AmbientMorality]

@@cheo4201 A pressurization fault isn't anything even remotely close to an indication of this kind of thing, though. It's very possible it wasn't even related. If the pressurization system fails then the plane might have to divert (so you don't want to be over the ocean) but that's about it.

[@angelicchandler8275]

Never getting on a commercial plane again.

[@ninjagirl226]

Hahaha now you say that lol where were you in 2020 when all the planes were crashing. I shouldn’t laugh because I lost a lot then but it’s just amusing that it’s taken four years for people to maybe wake up. But I’m not joking when I say I know more people in 2020 who died in plane crashes than got Covid my Dad being one. And even before 2020 so many in my family have died or been severely injured in crashes. I’ve even been in a plane when power got cut to the engine that one was freaky. But no one ever seemed to care.

[@angelicchandler8275]

@@ninjagirl226 Well, since I last time I flew on a commercial plane was in 2008, I think I got the picture a while back. But the last few years with engines coming apart in mid flight, engines catching fire on takeoff, planes crashing because of computers fighting the pilots on takeoff, and now this, only has reassured my stance on the subject.

[@paulferrara9079]

Oh right go drive on our nations highways? I'll take the skys in almost any airplane over the drivers I see and the pot holes and bridges falling down. : )

[@ninjagirl226]

@@paulferrara9079 I don’t disagree. I think everything is falling apart but people try to bury the issue instead of fixing it or learning from it. That leads to repeat issues and more lost lives and that hurt cause what did my dad die for?

[@paulferrara9079]

@@ninjagirl226 lost your Dad? Very sorry to hear that.

[@ZzXZ636]

United corporate stated recently its first commitment is to diversity in all areas as quickly as possible . If door 🚪 fall from the sky 🌌 ✈️ it is all part of the plan 😂😂 Diversity is our strength …

[@adamsaint2890]

This is squarely on Boeing. It’s almost brand new and is falling apart!

[@jpcaretta8847]

I never hired to fill quotas and it is very very difficult plus you have to be careful not to get caught ! Good enough is not enough.

[@ZzXZ636]

@@jpcaretta8847 Well , those that control the finances in the US have implemented ESG scores . Along with that Buttigieg, our Transportation Secretary announced that there are too many white people in Aviation . I wish Americans would wake up and see where this is heading . The problem is the word diversity is used to exclude white people from obtaining jobs . No other group can be criticized , mocked , and discriminated against except White Christians . I am so over the US , and it WILL be one of the causes or our downfall .

[@DSLightning21]

Yikes! Good thing Boeing isn't working on the new bomber... 😌

[@alvarocolindres4764]

I just don’t understand why rushed to build an airplane ✈️ Boeing needs to change the culture about building planes you are not making a simple thing planes fly in the our planet every day with millions of lives in the skies airlines can wait no need to rushed!

[@paulferrara9079]

$$$ It's also in our human history, ever read about how old ship were put together? Profits man, from sailing ships to aircraft time is really money. btw the build coordinates used to build sailing ships of old is used on every airplane built today. The water line is under the tires of the landing gear. lol yeah look it up. The nose cone is 0 station. etc...

[@johnbutera5805]

​@@paulferrara9079BTW... apparently the Titanic sailed with a COAL FIRE on its voyage which buckled a bulkhead, weakening it enough to fail when it hit that iceberg!!! It should NEVER had sailed, but it did because White Star might have gone bankrupt if it wasn't a success. Look at how THAT turned out!!! 😢

[@simu31]

Well, a plug door has literally NEVER blown off a plane before, so yes, it IS "highly unusual". This isn't, and the cabin presurisation warning weren't, "just a light (which it sounds like it was)." I'm sorry, there is a MASSIVE difference between an AC unit not working and being taped inoperable, and a piece of the fuselage flying off the side of the aircraft at 16,000 feet! Thank whatever you believe in that this wasn't at cruise altitude where they could have lost the entire aircraft, passengers and crew. Please, PLEASE try getting someone on who doesn't try and play-down the severity of this accident. This ISN'T just some sensor or dial not working. This came within moments of costing people their lives

[@johnbrown6189]

No kidding.

[@johnbutera5805]

Amen to that!!! Also, I'm glad that this woman is no longer a pilot with her "well it's not that unusual" attitude!!! 😮

[@crazypilot4017]

I’m glad someone said it! And yes this lady should NOT be a pilot, with the remarks on down playing this situation. How do you not know and discern that a cabin pressure warning/maintenance issue that occurred multiple times in the past, are not grounds for grounding a plane?

[@gomez2724]

If you had any knowledge of what you are talking about you would not have posted. A pressurization light in the cockpit tells the crew there is a "possible" problem with the cabin pressure. There are two computers that are independent of one another that monitor this. IF one fails the light comes on, if the other one happens to fail the light comes on. The crew then has to monitor and adjust the cabin pressure manually in the cockpit. It's called a triple redundant system...three separate systems. A shorted wire, bad light socket or bulb can cause that light to come on. Notice, this has NOTHING to do with that door with the exception if it was leaking profusely which would be extremely hard/impossible for maintenance to prove being that testing on the ground is nothing like a flight simulation. Hopefully this answers some of your comments intelligently.

[@gomez2724]

@@johnbutera5805 She explained it better than any news caster I've seen so far, and I have 37yrs aircraft maintenance experience!

[@paulferrara9079]

Never, never let them tell you they are all the same...

[@heresteven]

Stupid but not unusual for people to disregard alarms as a malfunction. Both maintenance and the pilots don't know how things work. Now look at how much it is costing the company and other companies

[@gomez2724]

If you had ANY knowledge of what you were talking about and what the deferral procedure is that is referenced in this report, you would NOT have written just an ignorant comment.

[@heresteven]

@@gomez2724 Really? Now a big investigation is on going. Companies rolling in criticism, and financial losses. Was a good decision by those involved to defer it. I guess that procedure is for people who have low standards for safety and are comfortable taking big risks. They got lucky no one died. Then the politicians would have jump in. They should fire the people involved before they make more bad decisions in the future.

[@evacody1249]

​@@herestevenBoeing f-ed up that simple.

[@Nebulous0_o]

Much like my 2022 Ford Explorer which has been in the shop a dozen times with transmission, touchscreen, and vibration issues, these planes are obviously all being assembled on a Monday morning. Fire everyone involved.

[@petercollingwood522]

Starting with Boeings top managemnt.

[@jpcaretta8847]

​@@petercollingwood522It all start from the head. MBAs without eng. degree, the most dangerous kind in the industry. Add a few lawyers and collapse is near.

[@christophergaff2617]

How safe are aircraft,it's making a weird sound They All Make That Sound...even southwest has not grounded it's max

[@heresteven]

Inopertune equipment, that is when people can't figure out what is going on, or care to do the work, and walk away from the problem.

[@gomez2724]

I think you misunderstood what she said...she said INOPERATIVE as in it does not work, like when your headlight burns out, it's INOPERATIVE. There is a master list of things that can NOT work on an aircraft and still be safe to fly according to the manufacturers recommendations.

[@heresteven]

@@gomez2724 But they were wrong. System was working as it should. They ignored it and dismissed it as broken. Their own limited knowledge of the aircraft caused this problem to escalate.

[@sonoftherepublic9792]

These door plugs are evidently designed to burst during depressurization. Other burst panels in more discrete locations are designed into the airplane. In this case, Boeing failed to notify operators about this design feature which places a sacrificial plug directly next to passengers probably not buckled into their seats. Also, the FAA either did not know about this or mandate notification. Seems like criminal negligence by both Boeing and the FAA. The certification system has to change.

[@johnnydoe3603]

I think you are Confusing the Plugs with the Cockpit Door. 😅

[@gomez2724]

You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about. there are no "sacrificial" doors or plugs on an aircraft.

[@moonlightmelodrama]

We know that Washington does not regulate Wall Street. Now we are finding out it doesn't regulate the airline industry either. Just what does the FAA do to justify its $2 billion a month budget? Yes, that's $2 billion a month. That's a lot of bread to fly around the country picking up the pieces after accidents. Instead of preventing them.

[@easterbunnys3542]

Its Seattle and Boeings FAULT

[@ninjagirl226]

It’s the maintenance workers

[@RT-mm8rq]

It's complicated but if you worked there its the McDonald Douglas corporate culture that started at the top and infected, for the lack of a better world, Boeing as a whole.

[@paulferrara9079]

@@RT-mm8rq Correct !! I agree. Was not like this way back when I worked there.

[@goldbud2287]

Where’s Pothole Pete …..giving birth ?

[@jwm702]

Made in America 😂😂😂😂

[@johnbrown6189]

What do you expect when most of the manufacturing jobs have been moved offshore.

[@RT-mm8rq]

Unless these bolts were somehow removed after delivery ( don't know why they would be ) There's a QA and a mechanic in a whole lot of trouble.

[@paulferrara9079]

Yep you don't know why? Let me help. The doors might have been removed or opened up for installation of other interior items or ventilation during maintenance by the crew working on the plane after delivery or after so many flights/ inspections. I don't know either if the doors where touched just some examples of how and why they might have been.

[@jpcaretta8847]

These bolts CANT get loose if installed properly. Improper installation and no check performed. TWO MAJOR FAULTS ! Unless made of chinesium, they can hold. Fire management !

[@acdii]

The plane was still considered new and had 174 or so flights on it. Far few flights on it to require any in depth inspections. I think the fault will be with Boeing or whoever installed the interior, which I believe is Boeing. A few possibilities is the shift got to the point where the plug should be bolted, but since they are union, their end of shift came and the next shift didn't know that the bolts weren't installed. When shift ends, the workers drop everything and head home.

[@paulferrara9079]

@@acdii gee if that were how it’s done heck of a lot of planes would be falling from the sky? Ever seen the paper work used in building these planes?

[@acdii]

@@paulferrara9079 Iknow what it takes to get a rebuilt B-17 it's airworthiness certs, but also keep in mind that at the point this door was taken off, the Fuselage had already passed inspection. Regardless of how it happened, someONE was responsible, bolts dont just disappear.

[@renscience]

Lot of assuming. Given it had pressurization issues, it could be Alaska forgot to reinstall the bolts during troubleshooting. Aircraft maintenance records should shed some light on it but not conclusively

[@evacody1249]

🤦‍♂️ oh my God they had no idea where the issue is and they never took out any bolts you fool.

[@evacody1249]

Um a door coming off on a 2 month old plane is unusual. It should not happen.

[@BenAbraham-eu8zg]

The education system eventually will effect the aircraft maintenance and manufacturing sectors, well it already is obvi

[@BenAbraham-eu8zg]

So I think the designers probably make it as mindless and stupid proof as possible I remember a aircraft sheet metal manufacturer who didn't even know calculus I actually met him in my calculus class he had to be in his mid to late fifties and he had a copy

[@jpcaretta8847]

True, emphasis on fake social sciences and not REAL ones ! Lower standards to allow more diversity... In Harvard, not a big deal but here it is a disaster.

[@hhgk6963]

This is the only correct comment I have read out of all videos on this issue that touches the real problem.

[@redstatefreedom5327]

Oh my God! If an airplane isn’t in well enough working order to trust it to fly to HI it certainly shouldn’t fly anywhere!

[@claytonchar9232]

Last person it. Whoever worked last on the door plug, is responsible for mishap. Without the safety bolts, nuts, and cotter pins, the door was like a loaded handgun because the bottom is spring-loaded.

[@VinnyBully]

And people used to make fun of made in China, lol..

[@Aarini_Ashwin-a3x]

As viewers, let's take a moment to recognize the considerable talent, time, and hard work invested in this endeavor. I'd like to express my gratitude to the highly respected Bagramon rescue team for their outstanding efforts. Your dedication adds greater meaning, significance, and hope, and we truly appreciate your commitment. The professionalism and articulate reporting by credible and intelligent journalists provide the best coverage, delivering crucial, recent, and relevant information. Their fair and unbiased reports, objective analysis, and comprehensive reporting are truly admirable. The level of professionalism and immaculate reporting is beyond words.

[@normanzimmerman5029]

Such a big deal about living…really

[@larrybaker5316]

duct tape it shut and let's go. good thing it wasn't the lavatory door flying off!

[@Aarini_Ashwin-a3x]

In the role of an audience member, let's acknowledge the abundant talent, time, and effort invested. This is an opportunity to extend gratitude to the esteemed Bagramon rescue team for their exceptional efforts. Their dedication adds greater meaning, significance, and hope, and we deeply appreciate their commitment. The professionalism and articulate reporting by credible and intelligent journalists provide the best coverage, delivering crucial, recent, and relevant information. Their fair and unbiased reports, objective analysis, and comprehensive reporting are truly admirable. The level of professionalism and immaculate reporting is beyond words.

[@franksimonds04]

Not reassuring. Glad she's not a pilot anymore.

[@johnbutera5805]

TOTALLY agree Frank!! Totally agree 👍

[@raulmoya8631]

This is a G O P problem, this is the GOP defending other millionaires

[@jimwright9866]

yah the dems only defend billionaires

[@James-bd3ei]

Trust Boeing like you would trust donald trump with a bologna sandwich.

[@jimwright9866]

or biden with the southern border

[@James-bd3ei]

@@jimwright9866 Or Trump building a wall in 2016 as promised. Mexico paid for it. Remember ?