Airplane almost lands on occupied runway at New York Kennedy Airport. Real ATC

THIS VIDEO IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING SITUATION IN FLIGHT:
21-JAN-2024. A China Airlines Boeing 777-300ER (B77W), registration B-18052, performing flight CAL12 / CI12 from Taipei Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport (Taiwan) to New York John F. Kennedy International Airport, NY (USA) after landing on runway 31 right was instructed to turn left on taxiway WW. The airplane turned left and stopped without report (based on data from flight tracking services they didn’t exit the runway). Meanwhile an Air France Boeing 777-300ER (B77W), registration F-GSQA, flight AFR008 / AF8 from Paris Charles de Gaulle/Roissy Airport (France) to New York John F. Kennedy International Airport, NY (USA) was about to land on runway 31 right. The air traffic controller noticed the problem and instructed Air France to go around. Based on data from open sources the aircraft went around over the threshold of the runway, from altitude about 70-100 feet.
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#realatc #aviation #airtrafficcontrol
Image from thumbnail was provided by a passenger.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Description of situation
00:17 Both aircraft were cleared to land on runway 31 right
01:41 China Airlines gets instructions to vacate the runway
02:16 China Airlines stops without report. Air France Boeing 777-300ER is going around
03:37 Air France contacts Departure controller and reports the reason for go around
04:42 Air France 008 contacts Tower controller
_______________
THE VALUE OF THIS VIDEO:
THE MAIN VALUE IS EDUCATION. This reconstruction will be useful for actual or future air traffic controllers and pilots, people who plan to connect life with aviation, who like aviation. With help of this video reconstruction you’ll learn how to use radiotelephony rules, Aviation English language and general English language (for people whose native language is not English) in situation in flight, which was shown. THE MAIN REASON I DO THIS IS TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND EVERY EMERGENCY SITUATION, EVERY WORD AND EVERY MOVE OF AIRCRAFT.
SOURCES OF MATERIAL, LICENSES AND PERMISSIONS:
Source of communications - www.liveatc.net/ (I have a permission (Letter) for commercial use of radio communications from LiveATC.net).
Map, aerial pictures (License (ODbL) ©OpenStreetMap -www.openstreetmap.org/copyrig...) Permission for commercial use, royalty-free use.
Radar screen (In new versions of videos) - Made by author.
Text version of communication - Made by Author.
Video editing - Made by author.
HOW I DO VIDEOS:
1) I monitor media, airspace, looking for any non-standard, emergency and interesting situation.
2) I find communications of ATC unit for the period of time I need.
3) I take only phrases between air traffic controller and selected flight.
4) I find a flight path of selected aircraft.
5) I make an animation (early couple of videos don’t have animation) of flight path and aircraft, where the aircraft goes on his route.
6) When I edit video I put phrases of communications to specific points in video (in tandem with animation).
7) Together with my comments (voice and text) I edit and make a reconstruction of emergency, non-standard and interesting situation in flight.

[@dupontjean9263]

At 4:58 the pilot said "preceding aircraft" not "proceeding aircraft".

[@YouCanSeeATC]

Thanks. I didn't notice it.

[@UnshavenStatue]

admittedly with english vowel reduction (and french has plenty of reduced vowels), it can be hard to tell the difference

[@arkiefyler]

I suspect AF was actually wondering about the Dynasty flight that failed to clear the runway earlier. In other words; "Is that slow-poke finally clear of my runway?!" 🤪 BTW, thanks for the speaker labeling! And also the clean graphics! 👍

[@dupontjean9263]

@@UnshavenStatue You are right. But I am french, so I understand perfectly the french accent in English 😌

[@UnshavenStatue]

@@dupontjean9263"I am french, why do you think i have this outrageous accent" xD

[@kd5byb]

The Air France pilot gets a gold star for an excellent attitude. He could have been a little irritated, but was calm, cool, collected, and gracious. Nice job!

[@craig7350]

paid by the hour

[@billb7876]

He could see it all happening in front of him

[@RLTtizME]

That is because AF has screwed up so many times in the last year.

[@Nicki99779]

@@RLTtizMEWhen?

[@geraldgiddens2247]

@@craig7350 0:39 😊

[@andij605]

That was French for "are you SURE we don't need to allow more space?" when AirFrance first asked about the speed restrictions.

[@der.Schtefan]

Yes, and they immediately called out that they will reduce. Plus they asked again at the second approach, with a charming "are you sure?" 😂

[@zoso73]

@der.Schtefan EXACTLY. The AF pilots knew something smelled fishy around Jamaica Bay and sand-bagged the final approach. When TOGA was requested by JFK ATC, the AF pilots were totally prepared for it. And I will add, i think the ATC guy knew he was pushing the envelope by trying to get both planes in on very tight slots.

[@Kyzyl_Tuva]

Every landing is a “go around” with an option to land.

[@nahteo]

And the "thank you very much" was French for go f yourself, pardon my uh french

[@qb1rdman]

Indeed. Exacerbated by changing runway conditions. It happens.

[@TravelFilming]

French humor how at the end Air France seems to be asking if the China airlines plane now has finally cleared the runway or if it is still on. 😂

[@der.Schtefan]

I think he is asking regarding the plane 4.5 NM ahead, not shown in this video

[@aleksandartomic9048]

@@der.SchtefanCorrect, he said the plane ahead was a CRJ

[@UnshavenStatue]

@@der.Schtefan negative, i think the controller misunderstood airfrance, i think airfrance was asking about dynasty

[@AEMoreira81]

On the return he should have requested 31L. The terminal is on that side of the airport.

[@der.Schtefan]

@@UnshavenStatue You know what, you might be right. But also: he could have also WELL understood him, and simply DEFLECTED the question. ;)

[@morpheus117]

Impossible to be more french than that pilot :) Nice accent

[@Rag3Again]

Votre commentaire me donne le sourire !. Your comment give me the smile ! This pilot is shinny and positive too.

[@BrewCityChaser]

I love his go around call.

[@craig7350]

.. and more Chinese for the Dynasty pilot who can't taxi an airplane.

[@donallan6396]

Air France pilot sounds like Pepe Le Pew .

[@jochampley]

In my humble opinion with, over 30 years of ATC experience, some of it here at JFK, I’ve considered the FAA’s rule of allowing multiple landing clearances to the same runway as insanity at it’s finest. The last line of defense if the leading aircraft does not clear the active is that, lacking a landing clearance, the trailing aircraft is expected to execute a missed approach at the approach end of the runway.

[@Dani-it5sy]

I normally really agree with you but what was this guy doing? He seemed to think he was the only one there on a private airport or something. I land on Schiphol every week and it's always just full speed off the runway in any kind of weather. This guy stops on the runway first, than crawls towards the exit and then stops with his tail still on the runway.. Maybe I am missing something here but this was a bit silly from that first pilot it seems to me.

[@bayard42350]

Yes but if you wait until the last minute to give the landing clearance, you run the risk of being blocked by another transmission at a critical moment

[@Dani-it5sy]

@@bayard42350 Yes on that I totally agree. And I think 90% of the risk when flying is at and around the airports. Specially JFK where there is just too much work load. Extremely fast speaking ATCs and so much going on it is just a (massive) accident waiting to happen. Just that fact that pilots can talk over eachother and not notice is just crazy. In 2024!? WTF are we doing here?🤯 But if I was a pilot and I knew this I would try to vacate the runway asap. That was the point I made. But indeed. There should be changes on the ground. Big changes. Specially at JFK.

[@timtjtim]

@@bayard42350that’s so much better than missing a go around command?!

[@antrillion]

Missing a landing clearance and being forced to go around unnecessarily sure sounds a lot better than missing a go-around call and colliding with something on the runway unnecessarily.

[@jimmiller5600]

Air France saw this one coming.

[@marcellkovacs5452]

The Air France pilot sounded pretty entertained, I wonder what his PA announcements are like 😁

[@davidbeckenbaugh9598]

"Hey, guys, are you SURE the runway is clear right now?".

[@geoffreyreuther5260]

Something about hamsters, elderberries, and landing a second time-ah. Also, somehow this involves catapulting la vache.... er.. the cow.

[@asdlfkj23oij4]

Going to put this on ATC for sequencing too tightly. A heavy 777 ER needs time to stop, you do NOT want to take those turns off the runway too fast. Yes, the CAL12 pilot should have pulled up further, but perhaps they just needed a moment after slowing down to make the WW turnoff. BTW, when you land, the runway is yours until you exit, emergency or not.

[@gervanwilliams1409]

The Air France pilot definitely wanted to make sure he didn’t have to go around again by asking the questions.

[@abqcleve]

Back in the early '90s, I was a passenger on a United flight into old Stapleton Intl in Denver. Very fun e-ticket airport to fly into. United let you listen to ATC on their entertainment system back then and I heard our captain ask the tower about the distance between our jet and the one landing ahead. It was 2.5 miles. I'll never forget hearing the captain say that was unacceptably close and telling the tower he was breaking off the approach. The controller basically did the aural equivalent of "whatever." Great professional, our pilot. The Air France pilot on this capture was clearly thinking the same, but did not break off. Probably unwilling to mess with JFK's flow, but very risky.

[@jumpingjeffflash9946]

besides missing the glory days of flight when it was enjoyable "from the cockpit" is a channel I wish still existed to listen to, that was so cool to be inflight hearing the comms. I flew to Stapleton once while in the USAF for a brief stop, I've been to Denver twice in the past 2 years and the tower is the only thing remaining of that airport standing above a now neighborhood built on the old airport grounds. DIA is pretty alright but security lines are long, TSA guy gave me a tip....go to North security (under the American flag) it wasn't too bad.

[@der.Schtefan]

Europe has stricter ATC lingo, much more formal, the US ATC is steamrolling over European pilots with American English. I am not surprised they accepted this as part "that's how the cowboys are"

[@rewolff2]

Not too risky. He knew it was close and he was expecting the go around. No surpise when the controller finally told him to. Not the same as the idiots who continue approach with a plane visible at the start of the runway.

[@andrewlorenzo6611]

its only 2.5 miles...

[@TomCro73]

Thank you - this made my night! Calm, superior humour from the Air France PNF... professional at all times, while projecting precisely what he thinks! Great airmanship - from except the JFK rookie!

[@avlisk]

I was on a flight into LAX once and we were almost on the runway when the plane powered up and took off again. The pilot came on the PA and said, "sorry, but there was another plane on the runway". I never knew how tight things were at a major airport or how common the "go-around" is until I started watching these videos. Thanks for the education.

[@UnshavenStatue]

i mean even with all these videos, keep in mind it's still less than 1 in 100 overall

[@mcpr5971]

Glad ATC kept his cool instead of lambasting the pilot (like SFO has been doing recently). CAL may have made a mistake here (or not, he said it was slippery and maybe stopped because he just slid, we dont know), you could tell he sounded concerned and just wanted to follow instructions. We all have to learn and make mistakes.

[@SasMarq]

No. Mistakes in Aviation is a big No No. That's why you got extensive training.

[@craig7350]

When departure asks them the reason for the go around, tell them to contact the tower, because they're the ones that called it.

[@charlesmoss8119]

The air France pilot didn’t seem surprised

[@andrewplummer1682]

Still don't know why American controllers clear multiple planes to land at the same time. Doesn't happen in Europe until the plane has cleared the runway.

[@PiperAircraft]

Agree, this will not happen in Europe. They will instruct you to continue approach and give you landing clearance when runway is clear only.If there is traffic ahead the inform you to expect a late landing clearance.

[@PiperAircraft]

Agree, this will not happen in Europe. They will instruct you to continue approach and give you landing clearance when runway is clear only.If there is traffic ahead the inform you to expect a late landing clearance.

[@PiperAircraft]

Agree, this will not happen in Europe. They will instruct you to continue approach and give you landing clearance when runway is clear only.If there is traffic ahead the inform you to expect a late landing clearance.

[@PiperAircraft]

Agree, this will not happen in Europe. They will instruct you to continue approach and give you landing clearance when runway is clear only.If there is traffic ahead the inform you to expect a late landing clearance.

[@PiperAircraft]

Agree, this will not happen in Europe. They will instruct you to continue approach and give you landing clearance when runway is clear only.If there is traffic ahead the inform you to expect a late landing clearance.

[@JimWhitaker]

Nicely handled by the Air France at the end. Polite enquiry followed by a chuckle.

[@XPoChangLinX]

The Capt. of the last China Airlines that slid got sacked. I would not make that sharp turn in slippery condition either if I was on that flight.

[@Jonathan906]

That was a tight turn too, given the angles. At least, it sure looks that way on the diagram.

[@brandonadams7837]

Ya I’m guessing they don’t have unions in China.

[@denniswise1460]

@@brandonadams7837China Airlines is based out of Taiwan not China.

[@chrischen414]

@@brandonadams7837 based out of Taiwan, and they do have an union

[@boabrahamsen9442]

Wow that's rough

[@SquawkCode]

As Dan Gryder says we're close to having the next Tenerife right here in USA.

[@craig7350]

GR🤡DER

[@bayard42350]

I agree

[@donallan6396]

A lot of people ignore Dsn Gryder at their own peril. As a pilot ,I'm alive because I listened to everybody irrespective of their crustiness .

[@SquawkCode]

@@donallan6396 Yep. I have no issues with him.

[@maxsdad538]

I was thinking that very thing.

[@JimCar71]

He’s the guy that walks through the door and just stops.

[@fatrat6988]

And you’re the guy who talks shit about other people when u haven’t done shit with your own life

[@BearusAurelius]

I always used to say, 'Cleared to land #2, following a xxx" when I gave landing clearances. I know you don't have to, but it is nice to paint the full picture for the pilots.

[@dayeightfloyd5495]

Agree 100%.

[@charlesmielke357]

It is required to issue traffic in this instance by FAAO 7110.65 paragraph 3-10-6 a. This ensures the pilot(s) of the succeeding aircraft have situational awareness of what’s going on ahead of them. If a controller issues me a landing clearance with no traffic information, that means no other aircraft will use “my” runway for departure or arrival prior to me landing. The FAA Air Traffic Organization has lost its way due to various factors. QAQC was turned upside down a few years ago and the management selection process is broken. This has caused effective oversight to plummet. The FAA Academy has some bad instructors that they cannot or will not correct.

[@dayeightfloyd5495]

@@charlesmielke357 And lazy controllers cutting corners.

[@charlesmielke357]

You are not wrong but that has always been a potential issue. A well designed QAQC program and the right people in management providing effective oversight is so very important in ensuring the highest level of safety is maintained at all times. Just as important is an effective training program. The FAA's ATO has fallen way behind in these endeavors at all levels.@@dayeightfloyd5495

[@kennethbode2017]

I've been on 2 flights where we did a go around. Landing in Vegas anD San Antonio. Got to see the Vegas night lights twice coming in. Both times a plane was in the way.

[@brakes940]

For anyone who has taxi jfk, that ww intersection is very confusing. Almost 4 taxiway converge at that point. Good job by all

[@johnburgess2084]

Yup, the tower controller was starting to tell the CAL12 plane to expedite exiting, then realized he'd better just tell AF to go around. CAL 12 80% for being so slow, and 20% to Tower for packing them in too close. I'd hope that the incursion alarms were blaring in the tower, and not just hoping the controller would notice!

[@whuangjaison6931]

well, didn't you hear the pilot from CAL said it is slippery and it sounds they were very much struggled on the situation and had to ask for a deviation from the taxi instruction? It requires time to make the things right better than a taxi accident as well, it was literally not enough space between two landing craft. ATC made a right decision to tell AF to go around, but you cannot blame on a pilot being "too slow" for a safety reason.

[@davidgraham7932]

As I say on every single video this happens, the American procedure of clearing aircraft to land on runways when the runway is NOT CLEAR, will result in fatalities sooner or later. Absolutely ridiculous practice.

[@ThePorkypete51]

Yes, strange logic

[@jamesbartholomew1481]

As do I. LHR, CDG, FRA, AMS etc are just as busy as the US airports this keeps happening at and yet in Europe we don’t have this repeated problem, because we don’t clear aeroplanes to land on occupied runways. If that go around call gets blocked and the AF can’t see because there’s rubbish weather. Tenerife 2.0. If US ATC “need” to compromise safety in such a way so frequently in order to push the tin because theyre too busy, then the FAA should either hire more controllers or put a cap on the number of flights. But after they let Boeing get away with god knows what for so long then why should we trust them to do the right thing.

[@mattcraven4758]

CDG does the same as JFK. At Paris you’re cleared to land upon contacting the tower. Even though aircraft are still landing ahead of you. A bit of a European anomaly

[@andyb2515]

How can the Air France possibly be "CLEARED TO LAND"????????????????????? Ridiculous ATC

[@DangerousPYTee]

Been watching these and blancolierio for a while. This one was really scary.

[@Anurania]

If I heard those instructions I would think it's left on WW and then immediately left on B, which is a very sharp angle. I'm assuming he meant something else.

[@HiddenWindshield]

No, you heard right. That was the instruction. It wouldn't normally have been a problem, the 777 can easily make that turn (remember, on these maps the airplane marker isn't to scale).

[@dominicdahlheimer6861]

At the end of the video i wonder if AF heavy was inquiring about the traffic he was following on the 1st approach or the 2nd approach? Yes the "system" worked but................

[@alexdrumm1457]

He definitely was asking about Dynasty on the runway. The laugh after the controller says four and a half behind the crj makes me believe so.

[@der.Schtefan]

Second approach also had a plane in front of them, 4.5 NM ahead, but it is not shown in the video.

[@quackers584]

I think he was asking about the CRJ but implying that the CRJ would do what the Dynasty did. Kinda asking if this aircraft would get off the runway this time lol

[@UnshavenStatue]

I understood that Air France was asking about Dynasty, but I can understand why the tower thought of the CRJ.

[@alexadach5507]

there's something kind of thrilling when you hear the change in urgency from the usual monotone radiocalls

[@a2j3]

There’s nothing wrong with sending a plane around because another stopped while getting off, I’ve done it plenty of times. It’s called doing your job, and the jfk controller did just that. There was adequate space until the first aircraft stopped. Anticipated separation lets controllers issue multiple landing clearances to aircraft if you anticipate there will be proper runway separation when the arriving aircraft crosses the threshold. Only time we don’t use anticipated separation in the United States is with line up and wait unless you have asde-x running full core (ground radar). The video would have been worse if the controller did not say anything and the Air France went around on their own while the controller missed the conflict that arose.

[@timtjtim]

Anticipated separation is one missed go around command from disaster.

[@a2j3]

@@timtjtim you’re not wrong. That’s just the job though. One wrong move and bad things can happen. That’s why perfection is basically required in the aviation industry

[@jackmidd123]

What’s the background noise when the tower are talking. Quite a loud hissing noise. The aircraft doing 180kts sounds clearer.

[@n760cc]

Taxiway WW L turn to B is 135 degrees turn, and it was icy and snow covered on WW. I think they stopped and requested R turn was good decision. Otherwise it could be off the taxiway. WW closed after GND sent someone to checked.

[@MiguelAlejandro1969]

Phew. Very little space between aircraft. On the verge of causing a disaster at any time in the future.

[@georgeconway4360]

I would think ATC beyond assigning a speed to a certain point would want to know the planned speed for the remainder of the arrival. If the both airplanes are assigned 160 Knots until 6 DME and the first plane slows to their 130 Knots and the second airplane maintains 160 Knots until flare the separation is greatly reduced. I always advise my planned speed until touchdown and found that information went right over the head of most American controllers, but in places like Frankfurt they understood immediately. I flew the MD11 where 160+ was common and also went around a number of times due to an airplane still in the runway.

[@davidsp5936]

If China Airlines had an issue that prevented them from clearing the runway properly, they should've called it out.

[@batshevanivylerner8582]

what can i say, French accents in English always make me laugh (and i say that as someone who lives outside the US and am surrounded by French speakers). The Air France pilot was very entertaining. As for JFK, it's a major accident waiting to happen (and one of the reasons i avoid JFK when flying to the US).

[@Matt-mo8sl]

Maybe on a non-weather day, this doesn't happen. That turn for a 777 and on a slippery surface must be done slowly and carefully or he's gonna be off the asphalt. Spacing seemed ok if the China Air flight was able to clear the runway normally on a dry surface.

[@whuangjaison6931]

China Airlines is not China Air. [Air China] is from commies China and [China Airlines] is from Taiwan. It is confusing I know.

[@user-pf5xq3lq8i]

This is dangerous. Now imagine this in snow or fog.

[@chrisschack9716]

In snow or fog, you don't sequence that tightly.

[@kingkyyz]

if this ATC guy carries on giving out instructions like this he will regret it one day. 1, did not forewarn AF of another landing aircraft on the same runway ahead. 2. apparently, the separation. between 2 landing aircraft is very minimal so AF pilots requested reducing speed to have more time. Imagina this is a similar situation in Japan weeks ago. if the ATC did not notice that and the AF aircrew also made a mistake. an accident. The ATC guy in no way to command an aircraft to make a turn immediately unless an emergency. ATC can only ask the pilot to expedite turning if possible. The CAL pilots were cooperative but almost caused an incident. If CAL aircaft veered to the grass while making a left turn due to runway conditions, he will be blamed. the report would say, you are commanding the aircraft you make the judgment. nobody else. Most aircraft accidents/incidents are caused by human factors.

[@lesliesmith719]

What does "you're 4.5 miles of CRJ-9" mean? Thank you.

[@cflyin8]

The initial taxi instructions to Dynasty were super confusing for me as an English speaker. Exit at WW Left Bravo. Looking at the taxi diagram, that’s a high speed taxiway, and turning left off it would be difficult for a 777-300 especially in icy conditions. I think the Dynasty crew was confused as to what ATC wanted them to do. Controller messed this one up. The telling point for me is when they specifically ask for a right turn off WW. Dynasty didn’t think they could make the turn.

[@WildlifeObsessed]

Cool, Skipper of AirFrance 008 Heavy.

[@Exiles800]

I was taking off in an MD-88 at JFK 31R when they hit the brakes, pulled off the runway, and a big TWA 747 landed just as we pulled off...

[@Sahlooochi]

I feel like the title of this one makes it sound like the second landing plane’s fault. It should be something like: Plane erroneously stops on runway, causing a go around.

[@Gringomania]

Do I hear 2 different ATC-Voices? They want to have a second Tokyo or a second Teneriffa

[@JeanClaudeCOCO]

Air France finally get it right this time after many incidents.

[@peterwmdavis]

Doesn’t seem like a very close call at all. Am I missing something?

[@joycedudzinski9415]

Don't know why that aircraft left the derriere exposed on the runway 🤔

[@boabrahamsen9442]

Must have confused the Air China that their taxi instructions on touchdown was for left on WW and left on Bravo. Appears that next instruction was for right on Bravo though perhaps Tower intended right in the sense of right ahead now don't stop why are you stopping? Not much of Bravo when going right admittedly.

[@silentservant_]

😂 the French! At the end when he’s asking if the plane is ok now, he’s really saying “bro, the runway all good now? 😂

[@johnpollard4158]

Waiting for someone to blame this on Boeing.

[@YouCanSeeATC]

🤣

[@msjdb723]

😂

[@testman9541]

No this was not a 737 🎉 People only blame MAXs... Which is a pitty because we all like the new liveview MAX window and the effort less training for the pilots 🥂 I propose that from now on every new plane get the same type cert 🦄 Must be a good idea I Guess to ease the training 😂

[@andytipping70]

the bolt that holds the spinny line on the radar screen came loose

[@joeg5414]

@@testman9541 no they don't. I've been watching the comments and all people see is Boeing and they're all over it. That 747 engine fire in Miami and all the talk was how Boeing as falling apart. Ignorant people don't normally pay attention aviation incidents. The media picks up 1 story and these people are suddenly paying attention and they think none of this stuff happened before. They don't realize they just weren't paying attention.

[@leroy3029]

Air France Passengers go "weeeee"

[@dingle849]

*ouiiiiiiiii

[@GRosa250]

I didn’t know Pepé Le Pew was flying for AirFrance now. Glad everything worked out.

[@38911bytefree]

To me sounded like The Inspector from the pink panther ... EPIC .... !!!!!

[@tinysherpa7180]

I thought that there is a 'no fault' system with regard to go-arounds to encourage safe choices. Why does Approach ask the reason ?

[@timtjtim]

In case it was due to something they didn’t know about - e.g. something on the runway, birds, etc.

[@pohsuchen1]

Tower pack them too close, and thats very common in JFK,LAX and SFO. AF crew knew it was too close so reduced their speed. Landing aircraft on RWY has priority anyway.

[@edwinsas2615]

This is what i think happend: controller saying left on WW, taxi to the ramp left on B. From WW there looks to be a very sharp turn to B that is running parallel to 31R (don't even know if this turn is possible with a big airplane? ). I think they needed to make left on the other B that is going past TT towards S. Looks to me this was the problem. Confusion at the pilot for making this very sharp turn on B parallel to 31R where he proberbly should have gone to the other B.

[@HiddenWindshield]

What do you mean, "other B"? There's only one taxiway B at Kennedy.

[@edwinsas2615]

@@HiddenWindshield look at the layout at this website: www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aip_html/part3_ad_2.0_new_york.html Look to me at the intersection at WW there's a turn left on B that is going towards S

[@stevenbowers4164]

​@HiddenWindshield I believe that he's suggesting that the aircraft should have been given a right turn on bravo originally not a left turn, this is what the crew eventually asked for

[@christianlink6903]

​@@HiddenWindshieldbut easy to go right on B, but hard turn on wet to go left on B (more than 90 degrees turn) as it was adviced.

[@HiddenWindshield]

@@christianlink6903 The 777 has a turn radius of 35m. The left turn from WW onto B has a radius of more than 50m. The turn wouldn't have been all that hard. Also, if a pilot doesn't think their airplane can do something, then they shouldn't accept the instruction. They should radio "unable" and request an alternative.

[@stenic2]

Ok wait a minute are you telling me there is a w taxiway and then a ww taxiway from the same runway?! This easily leads to misunderstandings!

[@Dstew57A]

Runway slippery? ATC said keep moving…the language barrier seems to be getting worse

[@stevehamilton3181]

These super busy airports are a bit concerning.

[@shellderp]

maybe ATC should keep bigger separation if they don't want this happening

[@quackers584]

Lmfao if you don’t know anything about ATC you shouldn’t comment. Just because this video doesn’t show all of the planes doesn’t mean these were the only 2 in the airspace. If ATC doesn’t provide as close to minimum separation as possible then flights start getting delayed, passengers miss connections, available flights are lessened, airlines use more money, etc. If you give even just 1 mile extra of spacing between every aircraft then after 60 flights you lost 60 miles of spacing to put planes. Depending on type of aircraft involved that’s like 15-20 less aircraft you can’t get to the ground now

[@timtjtim]

@@quackers584no need for the insult at the start

[@zachansen8293]

That means lower capacity airports when there's no ability to add capacity. It's all a tradeoff.

[@johnnorth9355]

Ouch.

[@Lucastsai128]

Hello, I am a reporter from Taiwan. I am very concerned about all flight updates from China Airlines, or other airlines from Taiwan. I would like to ask about this matter of China Airlines and Air France. If we want to report it, Can your video be used? Thank you very much.

[@edwinascantlebury6435]

Also on one that lost an engine .

[@TonyP9279]

I think sometimes these pilots don't realize how long their aircraft is.

[@catherinesarah5831]

🦘🇦🇺 Yet again, another near miss, it’s just a matter of time not if but when we have another Teneriffe in the US. ATC can only advise, it’s up to the PIC to handle all runway protocols. LUAW & evacuation of the runway appears to be the problem. And where is the FAA ………. 💤💤💤

[@rewolff2]

I think the left turn onto B was too tight for the large dynasty 012 airplane. They hesitated because they could not make the turn. Then there is a cultural thing.... it is difficult for them to say cant make the turn. Both we cant make the turn and you instructed an impossible turn are hard to say for eastern people, I think.

[@AEMoreira81]

Has the CI crew ever flown to JFK before? Why did they stop?

[@georgeconway4360]

Have you ever taxied a large airplane with slippery conditions?

[@DaveLee83]

There was another of these recently. Are there so many planes going in there they can't get good, safe spacing?

[@diegosorio]

The spacing was good and safe. There is a thing called arrival vs arrival separation standards.

[@dageek1000]

How frenchy is your french accent Cpt : OUI

[@PetrolHeadBrasil]

2:28 - so there was a reason they stopped at WW! That was ANOTHER traffic issue in JFK because they cleared 2 airplanes with marginal separation! 4:58 - LOL!!!!! Well done, Captain!!!

[@MiickyCar]

As a French I’m nearly offended to read « AIRFRANS » 😮

[@hermanbodewesNL]

The Air France pilots reacted very professionally, in a French way. It's strange that tower allowed these aircraft to get so close to each other.

[@ourlifeinwyoming4654]

“Dynasty” - not so much.

[@marcospark2803]

It didn't happen in Canada, that's why ATC didn't say "sorry" not even one single time

[@oldNavyJZ]

Should have had air france hold at VOR until they could say "hamburger".

[@tonamg53]

I seriously think JFK ATC controller needs to be disciplined.

[@andrewlorenzo6611]

For doing his job?

[@tonamg53]

@@andrewlorenzo6611 For professionally being unprofessional…

[@boahneelassmal]

i mean.... nothing cal could've done really. twr wasn't smart instructing hairpin turn onto B, should've given B U A in the first place and slowed down the afr but overall not really a massive incident... all parties did what they deemed safest and most proficient at the time. no blame only hindsight to learn from here

[@jaysmith1408]

How can you issue clearance to land for an aircraft following another aircraft that’s on a five mile final? Correct procedure would be “continue, number 2 behind a triple seven on five mile final” Either the current generation controllers are sub optimal, or they need new instructors in Oklahoma City. It’s procedural, nobody in particular.

[@GWNorth-db8vn]

If they wait until the runway's clear, they're calling the pilot and he has to respond just before he crosses the threshold. Four miles in trail is the minimum and that's what they use at JFK or the other major airports. It's plenty of time as long as everyone gets with the program.

[@jort93z]

That's how they always do it in the US. In the US you usually get cleared as soon as you are handed over to tower. If the aircraft before you doesn't clear the runway in time, they tell you to go around. In europe, and i think everywhere else, they only clear you once the runway is, well, clear.

[@jort93z]

This is pretty common in europe. it's quite common for planes to only get their landing clearance at 800 feet or something. In europe the controller would have likely acted as jaysmith described.@@GWNorth-db8vn

[@quackers584]

Lmfao yeah it’s better to tell a pilot at the most critical phase of flight they’re cleared to land. Either west the plane would’ve had to go around. Issuing the clearance at the time they did wasn’t the problem here 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@jaysmith1408]

@@quackers584 figure if controller’s transmission get’s stepped on, it ought to be a clearance to land. Better to miss a clearance to land (so go around) than a go around (so land).

[@jemand8462]

I mean... it's Air France, not Airfrans, I think that should be pretty known by now.

[@thomasl5040]

"Airfrans" is their official call sign ;)

[@jemand8462]

actually? that's hilarious :D @@thomasl5040

[@Cadence-qt2ux]

ATC to blame. 2 planes on 31R witgin 5 munutes?

[@MrSuzuki1187]

Go arounds at a major airport like JFK are not unusual or dangerous. I flew for a major airline and was based at JFK for 15 years. New York air traffic controllers are the best in the world and I loved working with them as a professional pilot.

[@altavelmcnamara]

No they are not best in the world. This wouldn’t happen in Europe because they give landing clearance to one aircraft at one time only in Europe, not like in the US…

[@bayard42350]

You mean the worst compare to the rest of the world ?

[@altavelmcnamara]

@@bayard42350 Yep exactly.

[@Davionknight1]

​@@altavelmcnamara Same in Asia. Typically expect late landing clearance is issued. Depending on the company, I'll say go around under VMC conditions if ATC doesn't get back to you at 100ft. And definitely go around at minima under IMC conditions.

[@ohnezuckerohnefett]

I think in Europe, that would be phrased as 'Number 1...Number 2 behind...'?

[@SM-if4nz]

Approach controller stacked them in way to close.

[@S_Paoli]

at least it wasn't the same China Airlines Airbus A340-300 pilots who took off from the snowy taxiway at ANC. (yes, I said TAXIWAY)

[@KuostA]

what a pointless comment to make that added 0 value. scrub.

[@ferna4872]

have any video about this incident?

[@S_Paoli]

@@ferna4872 no video, but you can find reports about it using these keywords: China Airlines A340-300 take off from Anchorage taxiway

[@drmayeda1930]

@@ferna4872 Any audio about that incident.

[@KuostA]

are u not going to address my comment as well...?@@S_Paoli

[@edwinascantlebury6435]

Feeling blessed was on two flights that had aborted landing

[@johnp139]

Better than ACTUALLY LANDING on a Japan Coast Guard aircraft on the runway!!!

[@Standswithabeer]

whew

[@normiepuppet8306]

Air France pilot: "oookay going around" *takes a slow drag off cigarette*

[@user-kt4lf9lm1c]

Why on earth was AF given clearance to land when the other plane hadn't even landed before? Surely something like "continue approach" is the correct message for AF. Only when the first plane has vacated runway can (safe) clearance to land be given.

[@vector4481]

The system worked. This really isn’t a story

[@swapnilmankame]

According to other experienced ATC controllers, no, it didnt work and this was bad. So, it is a story.

[@quackers584]

@@swapnilmankamelmfao as an ATC myself the system worked. The controller noticed an issue (the Dynasty stopping when it wasn’t supposed to) and immediately fixed it. Then the Air France came in and landed. There literally wasn’t an incident here. Aircraft go around and get turned off of final every single day.

[@zachansen8293]

@@swapnilmankame If you want maximum capacity then you're going to have to send planes around sometimes.

[@capaldu]

Runway slippery mmmm very smart captain!!!

[@alexwyler4570]

The only reason the captain stopped was because it was not safe to proceed at the speed the ATC wanted him to. The captain's only job is to move the aircraft safely. The Airlines and Boeing put profit first and the product ( airplane flight and safety) second. The pilot's first job is still to fly safely. Does the ATC work for the airport and profit? or for the government and safety? Since he is just a worker, I think he should choose safety and bring that up every time the boss pushes the "profit, let's land as many planes as we can, angle".

[@swapnilmankame]

Yea he was a smart captain, the ATC controller on the other hand, not so much.

[@donwald3436]

Wow first time I ever heard a Dynasty pilot speak good English lol.

[@TheButterZone]

/nervous laughter

[@andytipping70]

atc should have gotten the air france plane to reduce speed - and most definitely not cleared him to land - that was playing russian roulette with hundreds of lives! Its fine and dandy blaming the china aircraft but there should be enough margin to take things like that into account.

[@user-hq4zg6ij5k]

1:23 Possible ATC deviation.

[@jemand8462]

before watching this video I can already tell that ATC talking way too fast and not understandable for international pilots + landing clearance while another plane still on the runway is AGAIN the cause for this. The US will only learn when the next big accident with 500+ casualties appears. Sad.

[@AndrewGrey22]

We are so overdue for a major air disaster. Our safety record has been great but now who knows who is working these positions.

[@deniermurch8693]

The minimum between aircraft must be made more if some pilots are going to be slow at leaving runway. This will affect Airline cost and slots. Pilots should know better as it will create more an more problems for everyone. I suggest 5 mile minimum between aircraft be made a rule for safety in landing..