AITA For Telling My Sister That She Shouldn't Overvalue Herself And Prepare For The Worse?

[@bbayley3121]

NTA!! They needed that reality check. What they did is not fixable, and I feel very sad for the husband.

[@queenjackson1037]

NTA & I’m not mad at Jack for his asks. Mom has serious boundary issues & there needs to be some changes in order for mom to learn them

[@lorealsp.o.v.4607]

Nta. SOMEBODY HAD TO SAY IT! The man's mom never got a chance to see his daughter.

[@YourMomfailedu]

And she probably died fuming about that.

[@funnyfoxbird]

This is so messed up. I get that carrying the baby should give you some privileges with the baby, but naming the baby and deciding on your own, who can and cannot see the baby is so ridiculous. Why should her mom be the first to see the baby, her mom obviously didn’t prioritize her health and be there to support her. Her aunt is a grown adult and could have handled her situation with her husband, just fine. I wish his mother would not have passed away, but it was so ridiculous for her to wait to see the baby for no reason other than them grandmothers ego 🙄. this reminds me of that episode of smothered where the mother to be lied to her husband and said that they would announce their pregnancy to both of their parents at the same time, but she actually told her mother first because her mother made her promise.

[@JW-vd4il]

What is with so many nutso grandparents these days? Plus people putting up with it! Even if paternal Grandma had not died, like OP I'd still think that was BS to make that Grandma wait!! full disclosure, I too am the one in the family that tries to keep my mouth shut but they wear me down like this and then get mad about. Too bad so sad, sorry not sorry, if you want to badger me!

[@funnyfoxbird]

@@JW-vd4il exactly

[@chandrasunny]

I have a suspicion that the limiting of the maternal grandma getting photos may have been a direct result of things that came out in therapy. From the limited info we got Dusty was able to clock her as a manipulator so who knows the depth of garbage that came out once a trained professional started asking the right questions.

[@silentlyjudgingyou]

Agreed, this woman nearly burned down her marriage for her mothers entitlement something is wrong there.

[@YourMomfailedu]

Paternal grandmother

[@SushiEpidemic]

If I was the husband I don’t know if I could ever forgive her, even with the ppd diagnosis. There would always be resentment and mistrust in my mind, even if it’s wrong to think so

[@krypto1976]

Yes this, Diagnosis or not she was this entitled and shitty before the pregnancy, the ppd just made it worse. she should never be forgiven with time he may soften but forgiveness never in my book.

[@Tailstraw_xD]

There is no amount of apologizing that can happen that will ever let that man show his daughter to his mother.

[@ladylauraanne]

NTA. Jack should have had a say. Sister is the AH and so is Mom

[@merlinathrawes746]

NTA! So grandma #1 had a family emergency and she and her daughter decided NO ONE ELSE WAS TO SEE THE BABY, not even grandma #2. Then grandma #2 dies without ever meeting her grandchild and the father is upset. Don't blame him in the least. I'll be surprised if he doesn't serve his wife divorce papers over her cruelty once he can think straight. UPDATE: Yeah, I really don't see this lasting. I can understand Jack's anger, but I also think he's overreacting somewhat. As far as grandma thinking Jack's being controlling, she needs to look very hard at her own actions and their repercussions. I hope it all works out, but I wouldn't hold my breath over it.

[@amyrodman3752]

Personally, I would never be able to forget any of this. Giving him a list for the middle name and having no say about the first. Hell No. Not being in the room. Hell No. If sister is blaming all of her actions on PPD, she hasn’t actually learned anything. I hope divorce is coming

[@crystalsmith5562]

Someone needed to give those gals a reality check.

[@yamairad1]

I'm glad she's going to therapy because his family will never forgive her. They don't love her like that.

[@tohrurikku]

OP did not want to tell them what she thought, but they forced her to, so they should not have been surprised. I do agree with OP that what the sister did is something that is hard to forgive, and I do not think that postpartum depression is a valid excuse. His mom dying without seeing the baby is not the only thing that ticked him off, and he probably seen her in a new light that made him fall out of love. Also, Eve basically told him in many ways that he is not important to her, and she thinks he is below her.

[@tryingtothrive157]

There was no logical nor practical reason to have kept the baby (even in photos) from husband's own parents/ family. And now, cruelly, his mother never met or even saw the baby even in video or photo. OP is brave enough to be the voice of reality even if not the voice of reason.

[@ms.annthropic6341]

OP had a spontaneous reaction, to laugh/scoff, and was hounded to reveal why until they finally told it straight to her mom and sister. That’s not AH behaviour. The mom and sister absolutely suck, I will never understand married people who cater to their parent more than their spouse - you’re not married to mommy/daddy, time to grow TF up. I feel so sorry for Jack 😔💔

[@erauprcwa]

How is OP TA with some of the commenters? They forced a response out of OP and the sister AND MIL needed to hear it. She devalued her husband took a moment away from him and his now dead mother. She took all autonomy away from her spouse in favor of her selfish mother. I don't blame the husband for needing time to himself. Also, he was pretty deferential from the start, to switch up and say he's going down a path of DV doesn't make sense. He was a docile individual before, now he's a controlling husband? That's a major 180 that doesn't fit. So anyone going down that path isn't paying attention. PPD is a real thing and I understood what OP was saying before the explanation. Some people really see the world in black and white and looking for an argument at every step.

[@sarahcarrasco]

The dad is an equal partner. He should be able to say he wants his mom to see the baby. That's just mean to keep the baby from a Grandma.

[@WildflowersCreations]

Regarding pictures not everyone wants their baby online, more and more people want their children to have privacy and less of a digital footprint. There may be other factors we don't even know about such as safety of the child and so on. It's becoming more common for a childs face to not be shown on public social media. I personally think this is a good thing because when they are adults they can then choose what they do and do not want online, instead of already having their entire life already blasted with every detail and embarrassing moment.

[@akeilagoodridge8707]

Mom missed tht flight on purpose

[@razredge07]

Sounds like OP's sister took her husband's kindness for weakness. She also didn't value her husband and all the ways he was accommodating and understanding. The husband sounded genuine and was fully invested. For such a man to go through an idiotic "rite of passage" over who gets to see the baby first, the unreasonable demand that such a rite be put on hold because the "star grandmother" isn't available, and then the tragic reality of why you dont play such stupid games--because people just might run out of time waiting, is beyond torture. Then for OP's sister and the "star grandmother" to act like the husband needs to be punished for not behaving as he "should" is at best tone deaf and at worst, insanely cruel. Factor in she limited his role in naming the child and other parental rights, and it becomes harder to sympathize with OP's sister. If a man was capable of exuding such control as OP's sister did over her husband, there'd be no doubt just how controlling and toxic such behavior is. There isn't any love in this marriage anymore and you can see the footprints from where OP's sister and "star grandmother" trampled the husband's heart to death. Husband is making concessions only for the sake of his child. I wouldn't be surprised if husband initiated divorce proceedings the moment he felt his child could handle the stress safely.

[@vanessamacneil5978]

I find it really interesting that PPD is being diagnosed with the neice being a year old, or slightly older. My general understanding is that it's typically diagnosed before the baby's first birthday. This seems more like Eve caught a bad case of consequences and was depressed because her life fell apart. OP should definitely not have said what was said, how it was said, but I'm also a firm believer of "Don't ask if you're not ready to hear it." Eve got a bad case of the it's-all-about-me while pregnant, took advantage of Jack's good nature to do what she wanted for herself and her mother, and it blew up in her face. Jack was rightly upset. Eve and OP's mom reminds me of my mother, and I don't mean to try and soften anything. Everyone needs to cater to her, she offers support but doesn't actually *mean* it and she demonstrates by bailing on the people she's promised to help. She should have had no say in who met the baby, or when, after she prioritized supporting her sister over supporting her daughter and meeting her grandchild. Granny doesn't get a vote. I hope that counselling helps Jack and Eve, but I don't know if it will. It feels like she's using mental health to try and force a reconciliation he's not interested in. And all of those conditions give me the ick. I don't care who came up with those, many of them are gross over corrections on their own, and the whole of them together is just going to breed resentment.

[@silentlyjudgingyou]

That horrifying moment when you realize your wife is a selfish brat. Poor guy the marriage isn't coming back from this even with counseling. OP is right Sis is terrible hopefully distance from the mother will help her become a decent person.

[@tammydownes2413]

It's always the man's family who gets screwed to see the baby and the wife's mother seems to come first. It's a shame he will never see his mother again.

[@827honey1]

NTA. Someone needed to let the sister know the reality of the situation. Also mom and sister have poor boundaries between them and the new set of rules are there to help establish them. Hopefully couples therapy will continue to help them get things back on track.

[@anakaliaeastwood]

I was all prepared to YTA this, but I agree with OP completely. They demanded an explanation for the laugh to the point of basically blocking the exit, and they got one. As for the "terms," yuck. I was with Jack until that point. Now, he's just a different kind of a$$hole than his wife, but an a$$hole nonetheless. Unless that therapist is godawful, I would bet any amount of money that the therapist does NOT know of these terms.

[@silentlyjudgingyou]

Or the therapist knows more about the Mother than OP mentioned

[@kayvon5926]

Wait, in the the update, over a year after the birth, it says Jack’s family has now met the baby. So does that mean some members still hadn’t?

[@ciaochowbella]

NTA. Somebody had to tell her she may have fucked up so bad that it can't be fixed. Her mom and sister practically forced her to tell what she was thinking. Some shit you can't apologize for and this is one of them. Jack is probably going to divorce her behind this fuckery.

[@tribyte4813]

Wow!

[@krypto1976]

As a person whose mom died after my twins were born (3yrs now) i get his pain if my s.o prevented my mom from seeing my kid so her mom could see her first id separate just on that front but the fact that she died without meeting my kid while my s.o is refusing her visitation in favor of her mom....yeah screw her divorce

[@analyticalchick3064]

I notice a trend in these Reddit stories of grown ups going to their parents house because they are mad at their partners whether it's a spouse or shack up..... Just old lady me over here with the popcorn.

[@bethgoltermann9231]

This is the most ESH situation I think I've ever encountered in these Reddit posts, but I actually feel more sympathy for Eve than many people. I'm not sure whether it was Eve's idea or her mom's that no one else should meet the baby or even Facetime the baby until after mom returned, although it's not actually unusual for couples to ask extended family to wait to meet their newborns because they want some alone bonding time. (No one met my kid until 2.5 weeks after he was born; logistics and COVID prevented it earlier. One of our family members could have just as easily had an accident before they met him, and while it would have sucked and I would always mourn that they couldn't meet him, it wouldn't have been anyone's fault.) I think the whole "everyone else needs to wait because my mom needs to be first" is not a good reason, but the husband *did* agree to it then, if reluctantly. It was only supposed to be a delay of a week, not months. No one could have anticipated that the husband's mom would get into a car accident within a week of her grandchild's birth. That's certainly not Eve's fault. Jack is grieving and looking for someone to blame. I also find it very curious that Eve wanted her mom in the room rather than her own husband. Seems like many commenters were reading this as mom being controlling, which it might be. But it could also be a sign that Eve and Jack's relationship wasn't on great terms to begin with. And when Mom left, Eve was deprived of the birth experience she wanted, and maybe having her Mom be the first person in the extended family to meet the baby was her way of trying to impose control on a situation that had gone out of her control. I really wish I knew which of these ideas originated with Eve and which originated with Mom, which might tell us something more about the dynamics. To run it down: -OP sucks for kicking her sister while she was down, and for being judgmental about her sister and PPD. But I think OP sucks the least in this situation. -OP/Eve's mom sucks for effing off to her sister's house when Eve was so close to going into labor knowing she was Eve's support person. She also potentially sucks for pushing Eve to allow her to be the first member of the extended family to meet the baby (although it's not clear whether this was her idea or Eve's). -Eve sucks for not allowing other members of the family to meet/Facetime the baby until after her mom returned. -Jack sucks for blaming Eve. What happened to his mom wasn't Eve's fault, and although her restrictions were arbitrary and silly, she couldn't have anticipated that his mom would have an accident and die within a week of their child's birth. And if Jack imposed those terms on Eve for them to live together again, he super sucks. Eve can't even send pictures to her mom without permission? They need to change the baby's name? (Kids start responding to their own name around 4-5 months, and this kid is now a year old.) Even if he didn't impose them, AGREEING to them sucks. Either he's trying to punish Eve, or he's making Eve prostrate herself at his feet to redeem herself. It's not great either way.

[@erauprcwa]

Maybe if they're not a great terms, it's because Eve keeps involving her mother in everything? Also, if Eve can't send pics to her mom, Eve if getting her own rules thrown back at her... but it's speculation. Eve has agreed to these terms, like you said about Jack agreeing to Eve's terms.

[@solsticebaby]

This. All of this.

[@silentlyjudgingyou]

Eve's mother being excluded is probably the right call though. Given the raving entitlement

[@hannavuorio83]

Nta. Op just told truth🤷‍♂️

[@jgabrielg]

What Eve and Mom is unforgivable!! Jack is better than me as I would not forgive and just co-parent. Five years of no contact with Lorie is not enough. If Eve’s mom complaines, I would just remind her that because of her selfishness, Jack’s mom died without meeting her first grandchild.

[@annabellegarcia4240]

Poor Jack. His wife is horrible! Eve is gonna be divorced. And she deserves it.

[@user-wi2yc8qd4u]

NTA. Poor Jack & baby.

[@NicoleBrown-oc7je]

This is so sad. Not your not the AH. Mum and Eve need to hear the truth eventually and sometimes it is better coming from someone in her family as if it's from Jack or someone from Jack's family,it is too easily excused. Eve had no right as the baby has 2 parents. Mum is definitely a AH and it was not her call. This will effect both the relationship between Eve and Jack and Eve's relationship with Jack's family forever. I just hope this improves over time.Mum definitely needs to stew in the juices she created. 😢

[@jmac1221981]

MIL (grandma) chose to go to her sister’s, it wasn’t a bad choice but a choice she & new mom r the selfish a-hole. Both tried to have their cake & eat it too.

[@twinsearch]

Yikes! I hope they don’t end up changing the baby’s name. Yes, it sucks that the wife held control over it to begin with, but this marriage is not going to last, and the baby’s already established name being used like a bargaining chip is the wrong move. What happens when they get divorced? Will mom want to change it back again? Everybody in this entire family needs to grow up and stop being so self centered and instead just think of what’s right for this new baby. Poor thing is in the center of a shit tornado.

[@AmethystEyes]

It sounds like the sister and mom had an emotionally incestuous relationship. I’m glad they are putting up boundaries. The mom sounds like she is controlling.

[@elizabethwatson71]

Why isn’t anyone blaming the mom? The aunt can’t handle life on her own. BS

[@MamaWolf920]

I get jacks side completely here.. thr whole pregnancy and firdt few weeks of the babys life it was all about eves wants and eves mom coming first. She alienated the paternal side and that resulted in this situation now jack is taking his chance to prioritize HIS side so that this doesnt happen again. First his moms accident.. but then what? Someones heart attack? All because mommy dearest just HAD to be the first person to meet the baby?? News flash.. its not about the grandparents wants or needs here its about what BOTH parents were comfortable with. So i fully support jack here. He may never fully trust eve again.. i wouldnt but he can get to a point where he'll make sure she talks with HIM first regarding THEIR child and not going through with something he isnt comfortable with.

[@Ladiofthewoods]

Wow! I had to listen to this twice just to be sure I heard right. Unfortunately I did. If OPs sister did suffer depression during pregnancy and PPD after then some of what transpired could be 'forgiven' however that does not transfer to her mother that was one hell of a bitch for being so selfish she couldn't allow, for THREE weeks!, any other family member to meet the baby before she did. Especially Lori's paternal grandmother! How is that even a thing?? No, nobody could have foreseen Jack's mom passing but to deny another first time grandmother her grandchild? It is great that Jack and Eve are in counseling, however his family is not and it might be difficult for them to ever move past this.

[@abbym3915]

I think I was initially prepared for YTA. To some degree, I’d say ESH. Sis and mom sound like massive pieces of work. I wanted to be on Jack’s side, but he made some moves that lost me along the way. Also, I get the aunt needed support, but at the same time, she couldn’t have taken care of her marriage issue herself?

[@vegaskullkid4503]

Nta, the sister needed to be told the truth. I also think Eve and Jack’s marriage probably won’t last as what Eve and her mom did was unforgivably selfish and from the conditions on this “marriage” Jack’s not going to forget what happened and neither is his family. Eve may have PPD but Jack has every right to be the way he is and has every right to break up with her if he so chooses. This is a crappy situation all around but OP’s not an A-hole at all for saying what needed to be said

[@animatedaries6806]

Mil doesn’t get a do over! Hello why can’t many see that. Also eve ran over him with his mom and made decisions without speaking to her husband, but now she is being isolated etc? Mess. Straight mess. Just try and if they don’t get better walk away from each other.

[@animorphs17]

OP is not the asscanaut. But the sister and MIL are. Jack learned a valuable lesson, unfortunately too late for his mom. He should have never have let his wifw behave like this and put limitations on seeing the child in the first place. Jack should have Taken control of the situation as both the husband and the father and told her what was going to be going on and let his mother see the child. On the upside, the wife has submitted to him and hopefully their marriage will be saved, as long as she doesn't start acting out or trying to control things again

[@kayjacoby290]

NTA. OP's sister and mom have blatant boundary issues. They FAFO with Jack, and later with OP. Both brought harsh consequences. After verbally pushing, then physically barring OP's way, did they expect her to be nice to them? She didn't even meet like with like. As far as the PPD - which I have never had - I imagine it's like other forms of depression (which I do have) where one may be allowed accommodations, but it is not carte blanche for any and all behavior. Otherwise, no one who ever suffered depression would be prosecuted or convicted of any crimes they commit.

[@robinrobin02]

I call BS! I've had clinical depression all my life...along with PTSD and anxiety. PPD,or depression is not excuse to mistreat people...nor is it a defense against being held accountable or prosecuted.

[@Rainbowofthefallen]

🤍

[@thequeenofdemons666]

NTAH

[@laurakerschenbaum4079]

Oy! What a mess. ESH. Sounds to me like Eve full-on projected her anger at her mom (for visiting mom's sister instead) onto her MIL. Eve was 100% wrong in this, and now her husband's mom is dead, so no amends can be made. Personally, I don't think sister was wrong to voice her opinion upon being pressed, and regardless of sister not being married, sister is still correct (the chuckle was wrong, but the actual opinion was not). Perhaps Eve was really mad at Jack for being so distant throughout the pregnancy and took her anger at him out on MIL. Any way you slice it, this was wrong of Eve. If Eve has any insight whatsoever, she SHOULD call her own mother out for leaving her daughter for her sister instead--(and sorry, but aunt's drama was NOT worth missing her own grandchild's birth. HOW did being there in person make any difference to sister?? Phone calls weren't good enough? There's nothing to DO here...the husband catting around was done; nothing to prevent that. Priorities were skewed all around--sounds like Eve just wasn't "good enough" in mom's eyes. Very poor treatment on mom's part).

[@solsticebaby]

ESH - You don't say to a new mother with a new baby that the father is never going to love her enough to forgive her. On the other hand, the new mother messed UUUUUUP. The thing of it is, the transgression would have been bad but something they could work around except when his mother passed away it took it from " hey, what you're doing is really annoying and not cool so let's get my mom introduced to her grandbaby" to " can't undo what has been done". OP sister is trying to do her best to make amends. Obviously she can't undo the passing of the baby's paternal grandma but she Is showing remorse. Don't tell her she can't be loved enough. You can tell her she messed up but to laugh at her and say she can't be loved? Nope.

[@HaleyJo1992]

I think sister needed to hear it, that love just isn't enough to sustain a relationship. Yes, someone CAN love you and still leave you if you mistreat them, which is what sis was doing on the regular.

[@yamairad1]

The baby is a year old. She isn't a new mother anymore. And 2 she was abusive to him all through pregnancy and the first year. Being a mother isn't get out of jail free card to abuse your spouse.

[@Tamietwist]

However its not the babies mom fault his mom died? I think its pretty normal to deside when you want to be realy to show/have people around to see the baby. I think OP is NTA but the husband is TA for not standing up for his mom if thats what he wanted(a week after giving birth is still very early). So he can not blame the new mom that his mom died and did not get to see the baby? You all know how muchvit hurts to get something out of uv vajj? And now she has post partum depress and her husband is punishing her for his mom dying? He sounds like an ass 😂.

[@thequeenofdemons666]

"CULPAE POENAE PAR ESTO." "LET THE PUNISHMENT FIT THE CRIME" "VENI. VIDI. VICI." "I CAME. I SAW. I CONQUERED." "WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. SOMETIMES YOU GET WHAT'S COMING AROUND.... AND SOMETIMES YOU ARE WHAT'S COMING AROUND. "HEAVEN HAS NO RAGE LIKE LOVE TO HATRED TURNED, NOR HELL A FURY LIKE A WOMAN." "THE MIND IS IT'S OWN PLACE AND IN ITSELF CAN MAKE A HEAV’N OF HELL, A HELL OF HEAV’N." "IT WAS THE WONT OF THE IMMORTAL GODS SOMETIMES TO GRANT PROSPERITY AND LONG IMPUNITY TO MEN WHOSE CRIMES THEY WERE MINDED TO PUNISH IN ORDER THAT A COMPLETE REVERSE OF FORTUNE MIGHT MAKE THEM SUFFER MORE BITTERLY."

[@yamairad1]

I think it does. The mom is the root of all this. She isolated the baby from his family because of her mother. It is appropriate to establish a strong foundation with his family and keep the manipulator away. It's sounds extreme because he's not being subtle like she was.