Reviewing the new Martin D-16E, Martin Guitar's Most Affordable Rosewood Dreadnought Guitar!

Martin guitar continues to roll out new compelling updates to its models that bring more value while also returning to vintage designs and aesthetics. The updates to the Martin 16 series continues these efforts with new tonewoods, features and aesthetic choices along with an extremely afforable price in an all-solid wood acoustic guitar that is still crafted in Martin's Nazareth, Pennsylvania factory. The new Martin D-16E combines these features and value with the Martin aesthetic in a Dreadnought body with a 000 depth. The dreadnought body has long been known for the power and bass that it brings. The D-16E augments this with a shallower body depth, making the guitar a bit more comfortable to play and creating a faster response in the volume. The availability of solid East Indian Rosewood back and sides is typically not something that is available at this price from an American manufacturer. The fast playing neck and Fishman electronics finishes off this compelling option that is sure to turn some heads.
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[@w.wrightjackson8317]

I just bought this guitar and please believe me, this guitar is worth every dime you would pay for it and more. I have a pretty large arsenal of guitars, I'm 67 years old, been playing for about 54 years and this D-16E is one of the easiest and fun guitars I own. Keep on pickin and grinnin from Nashville, TN. God bless all.

[@tonyquick5066]

I have a Martin Custom D a special run seems solid rosewood and spruce top. It is lightly braced matt finish and a real canon. Tony from Australia

[@mr.rubicon1193]

Congrats man. Congrats.

[@torbjrnlund903]

I have one too, and I regret I bought it. It sounds dull.

[@JohnnyRebKy]

What did you pay for it? Martins used to be able to be bought under MSRP sticker price. Or at least I always was able to get them for less. Martin requires dealers to advertise sticker price but if you knew what you were doing you could buy them for several hundred less

[@douglasboyd8475]

The thinner body, does it restrict the bass?

[@niibinmoore4985]

Just bought this today. Unbelievable guitar. It still hasn’t hit me that I have it lol

[@adamg9518]

It's sweet, and you can plug er in

[@douglasprechtel8375]

I just bought that guitar on Monday!!! I checked out the triple o15, triple o 16 and the d16. The d16 had exactly the sound that I was looking for. Bonus points that it's beautiful

[@johngraydon506]

Douglas Prechtel how about playability ? Thanks

[@georgeovitt5443]

I have one: love it. The thing is, spend the money--you'll play more if you love the instrument.

[@AlamoMusic]

Very good point!

[@R.L.Humpert]

Wow you said that right. I am average at best but learning and if I had to pick up some crap guitar I’d never play.

[@thefounding5879]

I own a GPC 16E in Rosewood and a D16 GT in Mahogany. Love them both! They are comfortable, well built guitars that sound fantastic! Glad hear you came around with the 16 series Martin’s.

[@brywong93]

What’s the difference between the E and GT versions?

[@thefounding5879]

@@brywong93 one thing is the E has electronics. A pickup with volume and tone controls.

[@ThisIsPatRyan]

I have a GPC 16 style Rosewood. It’s basically the special edition of the GPC 16e. Sitka Spruce Top, Rosewood back and sides. Ebony fret. Has the Martin smell and plays amazing.

[@AlamoMusic]

Very nice!

[@ShowseeTravels]

I own this guitar and I absolutely love it. I’m a big guy 6’4” and it is super comfortable to play. I also own a Yamaha AC5R and a Breedlove Exotic in Myrtlewood. I was looking for a cheaper guitar to travel with when I made the mistake of strumming this while passing it by... SOLD... I spent about $1k more than I was planning to 😂. I really enjoy your reviews and I promise you Chris I’m going to start buying my gear from y’all in the future.

[@jefferyclark351]

How’s that Martin d16E. Rosewood doing .

[@ShowseeTravels]

Jeffery Clark it’s my Favorite.

[@StephanieHughesDesign]

Chris McGee and Alamo Music Center totally rock! This video was informative, educational and so helpful. You have instilled my enthusiasm of Martin which has never waivered. Thanks Chris.

[@ralex3697]

I tried one out the other day, it’s a beautiful guitar, affordable US made. Comfortable to play and sounds fantastic.

[@MichaelJamesAndersonActor]

Just played one today while doing preliminary testing for my Christmas present. I went in to try the Taylor 214ce DLX, but ended up liking this way way more. Planning to buy in the next couple months. Never owned a Martin. Or Taylor. I think it's going to be good move.

[@alann5003]

Go for it. It's kinda like a hd28 but half the price and more comfortable to play.

[@gustavopaulette3496]

You are a clown for buying a 🗑 cheap laminate back and sides Taylor . Step up your game lame

[@hapshan]

Love how she looks. Satin back & sides, open gear tuners. yum

[@grantconnors5456]

Can you guys do a comparison of the D-16 RW to a D-28 and the new D-16 M to a D-18? Let us know how the depth affects the tone as well as if other differences make a difference? Thanks for considering. Cheers.

[@Dare_To_Imagine]

Really nice review! Can you make a quick comparison between the GPC-16E and this D16-E? Would be great to hear the difference in sound. Thanks

[@TC-fq7cy]

Yes, please!

[@akgeezer]

I strolled into the local Sam Ash a while back. I have 15 guitars. Not that this makes me a great player, because I'm not, but I have been playing since 1963 when I became a teenager. You can do the math, if you want. Anyway, I have a love for guitars and have been fortunate enough to purchase some nice ones along the way. Due to this passion or lust for the instrument, I always seem to think I need just one more. So, I'm looking at acoustics. I play a D -10E. It's nice. Then a D-13E. It's nice too, but I'm not impressed enough to buy on the spot. Then I played this D-16E. I knew instantly that this was something really special. I was impressed with the tone this thing delivered. No, I did not buy it either. I could, but I still watch my pennies and I start to think of all the nice guitars out there that I can get for the $1700 they are asking for this model. So, maybe it could still happen someday. So, I just wanted to chime in that this is a very nice sounding/playing guitar. Is it worth the bucks? That's what we all have to independently decide.

[@JohnnyRebKy]

If you don’t like the ooo body depth check out the special 16. It’s full size. It’s basically a stripped down HD28. I own one and it’s fantastic!

[@NoCoverCharge]

I never played a Martin till today .. I played the $849 Martin loved it played the $1200 Martin loved it ...played the $1600 Martin loved it even more hey and a $ 3000 Martin I didn’t play it.. because I knew I didn’t need too

[@samuelbae3318]

Just bought this guitar. Responds really well. Love it so far.

[@dmar3651]

Hot Damn that sounds like Spruce and Rosewood alright! It isn’t the same as The Canon that is the D-28, but it’s definitely a Martin alright

[@soofitnsexy]

well there is a thousand dollar price difference

[@dmar3651]

@@soofitnsexy true, but also the body depth is deeper on the D-28, and the bracing is different too.

[@soofitnsexy]

@@dmar3651 i know I have 2!!! d28 and custom hd28

[@soofitnsexy]

@@dmar3651 and the wood is far superior ...construction...as u said bracing depth ..you really do what you pay for!!

[@mikeclark3013]

I’ve thought for some time that the 16 series offers great value for the money. Several years ago I bought a D16 RGT, and it just keeps sounding better.

[@torbjrnlund903]

Mine just keeps sounding worse and worse.

[@hermnnsingh1538]

I'm getting this in about a week, can't wait for it!

[@bongocuba]

Purchased it a few days ago. Backordered till June 2022 and anxiously counting down the days.

[@bobeveleth9608]

Chris I really enjoyed this video. I’m a die hard OOO fan and currently play an 000-18 and 15 which I love. I’stayed away of dreadnaughts because of the large size/comfort factor. Future video comparison idea - compare this D16 with a Martin 0000 body, I wonder which would be give a deeper base response and still be more comfortable for smaller people who want a bigger sound.

[@phoeniixxgames]

Awesome review, Chris. That tasty little tune you played at the beginning made me want to pick up one and try it out. Long story short, I’m putting one on layaway soon. Thanks for the video!

[@paulstabin6233]

Excellent tone. And worthy. Bass is significantly down from the typical dreadnought, but that does result in a more balanced sound. The Taylor Koa model K24CE in this price range is way more gorgeous and also has a great tone, but the edge on sound is to the Martin, which is not as scooped as the Taylor. For me I would just look for a used D28/ 35 if spending in this range.

[@Impulze90]

I’m assuming you mean the Taylor 224ce is in this price range, because the K24CE is a $6000 guitar. Also, the Taylor 224ce is laminate back and sides.

[@jamiewilliams8452]

my dream guitar. i plan to buy it by the end of this year. wish me luck!!!

[@ryansutter4291]

Iv'e had the Martin Special 16 Rosewood Ac/El with Fishman VT Matrix Pickups and Made in the U.S.A. for a few months now...I would ABSOLUTELY recommend it to any aspiring guitarist. It is just a FLAT OUT AMAZING guitar. I'd been playing an Ibanez Artwood(WHICH i have always thought was a pretty great guitar) for 12 years now and I bought the Martin 16 a few months back as an upgrade. It is everything I could have hoped for and more. Sounds GREAT straight OR Amped up. The Fishman Pre-amp pickups makes the guitar sound great on just about ANY amplifier(Ive been playing it on a Fender Acoustasonic 15 and it exceeds any expectation I have for it on a regular basis.) And at 1699.99 it is worth a lot more than it is being sold for. Totally worth it, my Martin is with me every moment in my day and I couldn't be more happy with it.

[@ronbelcher7118]

The Martin 16 Special is entirely a different guitar. Full body depth and sounds like an HD 28...Love mine...

[@anthonyroach7974]

That sounds really nice ..beautiful tone

[@RumoursOfFamine]

Just picked up one of these yesterday. Loving it.

[@matthewberg3328]

Just picked one up from Musicians Friend. So excited. This video helped solidify my opinion that the D-16e was right for me. Thanks for your help!!

[@HDPOTATEE]

How you like it so far?

[@jefferyclark351]

Well ! What the verdict on the d16 rosewood. Is it still in one peice

[@Meckvidio1]

Thanks for the informative info. Love the tone and you show it off nicely

[@MollyKuehl4790]

My grandpa left behind a Martin d guitar before he left the family and ran off And that thing was worth like 14 grand now or more And my mom gave it to Goodwill.

[@arbogash1852]

Practical choice for a performing/recording professional.

[@wimpieduplooy4130]

Probably the body depth, but she sounds brighter than the conventional Martin dreads.

[@soofitnsexy]

no comparison

[@palely6976]

does anyone notice he's wearing Taylor t-shirt?

[@dougrobinson8602]

I was going to mention it, if nobody else did!

[@Hamppzah]

11:04

[@MicahBuzanMUSIC]

Wow, this is tempting. Sounds about as good as the D-18 to my ear.

[@johndingmansr.5895]

Just bought one from Alamo Music today!

[@rickybobby6605]

Nothing to do with video, but I just finished an Alamo music vid from 2014 and I gotta say man you’ve lost a ton of weight. Looking good. Cheers.

[@davidcoleman2796]

I have this guitar and love it but it is not as loud as I would like . Don't let that stop you from buying it . Just remember this .

[@danr5105]

I have a D16E. The narrow body makes it just that much easier to pick up and play for those spurts through out the day. I also have a Yamaha FGX5, great guitar but certainly a bigger guitar. It does not seem much but these are instruments,small things matter. The neck profile and finish is clearly better on the FGX5. I love my D16E I also love my FGX5. They sound way different. Oh, the Grover tuners on the D16E should also be on the FGX5. Yamaha scrimped on the tuners, sure they work. I would like the gold Grovers (I think 19:1?) Almost 90.00 but they do look so nice.

[@donian4928]

These reviews are just great. Always informative. Thanks

[@JR-lx8nn]

Nice review ... BIT I disagree anyone who "gigs" is "fine with a gig bag" instead of a hard shell case. That is just plain silly. If you take your guitar anywhere, it NEEDS a hard shell case - even a molded polymer case. Spend $80-$100 and protect your investment. Just MY take. JT

[@mrcurtis73]

Why is scalloped forward shifted x bracing a big deal? How does it affect the tone?

[@acousticlee3902]

This is a great video, I only wish you would give us a sample of it while plugged in.

[@philipdonovan6510]

Have my eye on this guitar but of course will have to try one myself. It seems that there are very few youtube demo's where the player provides the full dynamic range of potential volume on acoustic guitars. 90% of these demo's the player reaches maybe 50% of the the full dynamic potential of the instrument. And that is a very important thing to do to truly be able to assess the performance of the instrument. Some guitars sound fine at tender picking or strumming but will cave come more aggressive performance. I think this instrument sounds quite good but how will it survive over the remaining 50% of its potential dynamic range? That is to be seen. And it would matter quite alot.

[@jefferyclark351]

I know exactly what you talking about . If they don’t strum a open G / D / C I’am pissed. Didn’t get nothing out the review

[@dancolley4208]

Those tuners are really slick!!!

[@thejeffersonlee]

I am stuck between Rosewood and Mahogany. I've generally played Seagull acoustic guitars (before richlite) because they sound like guitars worth 5 to 10 times the price, but I want a genuine "grown-up" guitar that I can gig and record with without sending me into bankruptcy. (I'm a public school teacher, so shallower pockets) My current Seagull, which still sounds great, has a solid cedar top with laminated cherry back and sides. (I almost built a similarly spec'd acoustic guitar in HS woodshop years ago, glad and sad that I didn't--doomed to failure, but a great learning experience I missed out on.) I feel like the D16e with mahogany has more warmth which compensates for the shallower body, but the rosewood has more clarity. None of my local guitar shops stocks either variety, so I can't compare in person. I'll be in San Antonio next month, so I might just have to plan a visit to Alamo Music, unless you guys have a table at the music educators convention with the guitars on display.

[@joshuahendrickson4854]

I really like the sound of this guitar. It doesn't sound quite as good as a martin hd28 that I'd really like to get. However, it is very nice. Maybe not a touch as much bass, and it doesn't seem quite as loud as a martin hd28, but still it has a very warm sound. I do have a martin d18 that is amazing, but I'd love a martin hd28 to complement it. Thanks for the great video.

[@vernonknight8611]

The shallower depth gives the rosewood a more mahogany like sound.

[@kyleskidmore9381]

This just might be one of my new acoustics soon.

[@jayraphaelmangcoy2669]

Tabs for the song at 7:54?

[@mcires59]

Hi Chris, thanks for your recommendation, I made an upgrade from a Martin Dx1 KAE to a D16 E and I am very happy. Please let me know the strings you recommend for this guitar. Thanks in advance

[@whskywolf]

Been watching videos trying to decide on an upgrade to my 21 year old Woods DW15. Always been around Martins a lot, family who play Bluegrass and swear by Martins, but trying to compare this one to the Taylor Ad17e or maybe the Martin D13E and my ear just not as tuned to pick up a big difference on video. Enjoyed all the videos I have watched so far binge watching lol.

[@warmonger9100]

Sounded awesome. You convinced me.

[@pablo9364]

Nicely played

[@wimpieduplooy4130]

D16 is the equivalent to Gibson's Studio acoustic line in my honest opinion. Still a great guitar, great value.

[@FlyWhistle]

Love Martin but the cheapest American model being 1700 is just insane

[@franklinarchambault5397]

like it the sound coming out of its mouth it just great good tone

[@kurtlindsaysongs]

How do you feel about the bass of this guitar versus say D28? Does it have less bottom end, but more than a 00 or 000 Martin?

[@StymyParsley]

In terms of bottom end bass, it’s between 000 and dreadnought Martins. Though I’d say it leans more towards a D-28 than an 000

[@mauricioferreira4157]

awesome video. thank you

[@TheChromaDrone]

Sounds great! I prefer a satin finish vs the glossy finish. You can tell a different in the tone with a satin finish. I think so, anyways. I'll have to stop by the shop next time in in SA.

[@danielfong1093]

Can you guys do a review for the 000-16e please?

[@R.L.Humpert]

I have an HD28 soecial. Would you buy this D16e over the 00018? I’m not sure about the mahogany sides and back. Mahogany just really muffles the sound or something. Doesn’t handle as well but I’m not sure with the rosewood top. It might sound great. I’m selling my Taylor 324 ce it’s just too muffled and can’t handle power

[@bloodshred6007]

I've seen this exact guitar in reviews saying it's solid sycamore, I thought all of the d16e were rosewood?

[@bbqbrew1]

That was the previous d-16e. It was out for 2 years with mixed reviews due to styling. i.e. Silvery grey binding and black headstock/gray tuners with a not as well known sycamore back and side woods.

[@rcdubya]

Just the 16E Rosewood

[@avelinetan]

I still like the gpc16e

[@mcampbell5158]

A martin video wearing a Taylor shirt?

[@groundunder12]

I love Alamos reviews and thank you for them. I own a few Martin's and am now wanting one from the 16 series, but I'm conflicted on which to buy. There is the Martin D16e Rosewood and then there is the Martin Special 16 Rosewood. Could you help me, here? Your opinion on what you think is the better deal? or a video comparing the 2 guitars? Please help. Thank you

[@robertstewart4300]

Affordable. in most countries not Australia sadly, We get pumped and no lub, lol. True!!

[@brywong93]

How’s this compared to the older D-16GT?

[@ronaldletourneau8292]

Just bought one!!!

[@dwtexan5186]

I just bought one as a matter of fact I'm still sitting in the parking lot of Guitar Center in Arlington Texas I have a question I couldn't help but notice that you were not plugged in the guitar was not plugged into any kind of an amp system I guess you were using the mic which confuses me I don't know if these pickups are any good or not

[@jamesrobertson7396]

Hey guys I am really considering this guitar , wondering how it would sound playing stuff like George jones and traditional country with it? Any help would be appreciated.

[@brywong93]

What’s the difference between the D-16E and the D-16GT ?

[@ponzo9296]

Great review as always. Could you please tell what is the difference between this one and d-16rgt. Wich one do sou prefer?

[@troyshockley7063]

GT is for gloss top

[@anthonyholmes3457]

It’s a shame PRS got greedy with the angelus se custom. That was by far the best guitar for the money until started building cheaper versions and more models. Spruce and rosewood. Beautiful bird inlays and even a bound neck. You can still get one on reverb for around $500. Only 2 on there as we speak. Getting harder to find.

[@jefferyclark351]

They are still a few great ones out there. I’am waiting on the PRS SE T60E. Had it ordered for Two months now. GC says now it will be March 2021. So had to get one of these D16s to hold me over till march

[@jimt6192]

Guild D-20 Dreadnought Acoustic

[@samtomaska1421]

What are the odds that Martin makes the 000-16e with rosewood as well? I’m a broke college kid, and I’ve been selling my plasma to save up for the 000-16e granadillo. If they come out with a rosewood version after I finally buy the granadillo, I’ll be so bummed!

[@soofitnsexy]

dont worry they wont

[@samsaxe-taller8333]

Could we see a comparison with this and the Taylor AD17e?

[@peanutavalon]

This or yamaha fG5 OR Eastman e20d? From a quality, fit and finish standpoint. I realize the woods are different. thanks

[@AlamoMusic]

Thanks for watching!

[@jefferyclark351]

Well !! What was the out come . That Yamaha fg5 will be hard to beat.

[@danr5105]

@@jefferyclark351 I have had my D16E a full year (figure 800 hrs playing,I think) I do love the way it plays and sounds,but. I have 2x FGX5 on order for summer delivery. This will let me make an extensive,long term test. I will post back in a year (well if I am still with all you guys (I will be 68 then.) I so want to make sure all my "gear" goes to someone I approve of (preferably a young musician.)

[@jefferyclark351]

Dan R I had a fg5 one great guitar Yamaha hit this one out the ball park .

[@danr5105]

@@jefferyclark351 I am kind of (well really very) interested in playing these two (D16E/FGX5) in rapid succession so as to really hear and feel the difference. I just bet both will excel. I am sending the D16E in for a look over/action/restring. I just love it when I get my guitar(s) back from such work. I want to move into doing nut,saddle,action,truss rod adjustments but for now I am concentrating on playing better. I hope I have time (I am 66,should have started earlier.) I will practice long and hard awaiting my summer delivery. I will have right at 2800.00 for either 2 instruments or one pretty good one (I already have 2 but I have that "guitar buying disease" and I have it badly. Recording King guitars are looking very attractive. I do want some form of a "Tele." (not a television.) I am retired and I just love playing and getting better at playing. I am still very rough (right at 17 months in.) I am thinking that Yamaha can't keep the promised summer delivery date.

[@BodyjailedBlues06]

I own a d13 e ziricote is there a huge difference between the d13 and the D 16 ?

[@ianneberry5234]

Lol im so broke that i laughed at yall saying a 1700 dollar guitar is affordable

[@paulterl4563]

1700!!!???? thanx for saving me 8 minutes of me life.

[@bigal25938]

Wow, $1700? I have a hard time with $700. Guess it ain’t for me. I have noticed the guitar center online has some good deals around Christmas. Can finance 48 months instead of 24,

[@larrykenney7091]

My question, I have a Martin D18 no.2339277 print inside what would be the model or a serial number of my guitar? I'm trying to get info on this guitar.

[@DanielJBaros]

Tab for the song at 7:00?

[@lancemorgan6083]

Reviewing a Martin in a Taylor shirt. Some people just like to watch the world burn.

[@C_L_Thomas]

Maybe that's his way of saying it's pretty much a Grand Pacific

[@AlamoMusic]

LOL! Favorite comment! - Chris

[@jski718]

@@AlamoMusic what is that first song you play called?

[@romanp1754]

If I have the chance to trade my 314c Taylor for this Martin, is it worth it?

[@Hrcak1]

Is it worth to pay $1000 extra for D-18? Also how good is for fingerpicking? Thanks

[@markhansen8078]

the thing that makes me think twice is the neck to body joint.

[@AlexanderDarkShadow]

I'm not very knowledgable on guitars and would like to purchase one before my senior year of high school ends as I am interested in going into music production, creative writing, and software development. So I'm not sure what a good guitar for me would be, any recommendations would be greatly appreciated

[@jefferyclark351]

Yamaha fg5

[@stevenshockley4237]

MMV is better in my personal opinion, these are still really good though.

[@jefferyclark351]

Hey Steve ! See you get your 2 cents in every where . You be two timing Washburn

[@stevenshockley4237]

@@jefferyclark351 I just got in another Washburn a few weeks ago :) HG12S, love it

[@jefferyclark351]

Steven Shockley Great Guitar it a hog body right ! Deep rich melody but still bright enough

[@stevenshockley4237]

@@jefferyclark351 Yup, and it's a grand auditorium so it has a slightly better response to light playing, but can still hold out at pretty heavy strumming. I have noticed that it's a bit quiet compared to my HJ40SCE, but it's smaller, so it makes sense.

[@trendyasdabbers]

All highs no lows makes Martin a sad guitar. So where's my 4.5 inch deep Martin at?! Yes size matters boys. Sorry. D-1 FTW!

[@nfn16076]

Anybody played it plugged in over a house PA? Love to hear that.

[@BiggMACKeystone77]

I am torn between getting the D-16E and a Taylor 317E maybe a 327E. I can't get my hands on any of these guitars at a store near me. If you could make a comparison video that would be awesome!

[@davidhixon_]

Found this a year down the road but I have the same problem. What did you go with? Regrets?

[@BiggMACKeystone77]

@@davidhixon_ I ended up getting the 317. But I bought a Martin D-16 a few months later also.

[@SalvvOrtiz]

$1600 is the most affordable for Warren Buffet. Right now is a bit more affordable at Musician's friend's stupid deal, $999.

[@mcires59]

Hi Chris, what is you opinion of the D 16 E Sycamore version in comparison with the Rosewood or Mahogany? thanks for your help

[@musicteacher33bdx]

Now in Europe it's 2500€ - I love Martin but honestly that's way too much 😢 inflation here is killing us 😑

[@user-fd1mv8dl9q]

Guitar mythology holds rosewood in an exalted position. Is it really superior a tone wood?

[@Hrcak1]

it's not, DCPA4 Rosewood, I just wanted to order one but been sold. No more in Australia :(

[@AlamoMusic]

That's a bummer!

[@allangauthier6307]

What was that first little lick you were playing?

[@AlamoMusic]

That's an original!

[@allangauthier6307]

@@AlamoMusic really nice dude.

[@AlamoMusic]

Thanks!

[@lovewalruss]

Nice

[@daniel.lefranc]

Elle a un son magnifique, et c'est une bonne alternative pour ceux qui veulent une Martin, mais ne veulent pas y mettre trop d'argent. En France elle doit couter environ 2500 €. Martin c'est vraiment le plus jolie son en guitare acoustique.

[@musicteacher33bdx]

Heu ouais mais là c'est les prix 2019 - 1699$ ça devait faire 1499€ > là ça valait le coup. Martin se touche sur les prix avec l'inflation > 2500€ ils abusent 🤑😖

[@daniel.lefranc]

@@musicteacher33bdx - oui, ça a flambé !

[@Ad.Dd.James.]

There’s a mahogany model as well.