ALAN MOORE hates the term Graphic Novel

[@GodLovesComics]

I LOVE the engagement on this video but it's really weird to have spent months doing a heavily researched 15-minute piece on Frank Frazetta that has about 20 Likes and 3 Comments; and meanwhile I upload an 86-second answer by Alan Moore and it's at 73 Likes (several Dislikes as well) and more Comments than I ever get otherwise. I will just say that there's a whole Playlist on Moore's work and interviews if you're interested...and also please SUBSCRIBE if you like comics OR graphic novels ;)

[@CardboardBots]

It's probably easier for people to have a quick response on Alan Moore's own hot take. Also the title for this vid is provocative. Perfect headline.

[@GodLovesComics]

@@CardboardBots That's all true. And hell, he quite literally says he "hates" the term, so the headline is all his. ;)~

[@RarebitFiends]

The algorithm is weird like that, this is the first video of yours youtube has shown me. I will check out the rest :)

[@benhillman8384]

KZbin- "Quickly make short things that can each have an ad between them - No, faster! Faster! Make us the money!"

[@GodLovesComics]

@@benhillman8384 LOL. The thing is I'm not even monetized. Also I'm not surprised of course that more people will watch a 90-second video with a provocative statement over a 15-minute essay; just like vastly more people will listen to a soundbyte than read a newspaper article. But I am surprised that of the 530 videos on my channel, this is the one to get the most comments by far. Anyway, now back to making YT more money ;)

[@user-drdestiny]

I will now refer to every comic omnibus or compendium as a "Big Expensive Comic"

[@someghostinthewild]

Idk how it's in your country but the omnibus are the cheapest comics here in terms of issues. Idk how americans can buy single issues, a collected version with 5 to 10 issues is between 9 to 15 dollars while singles issues are 4 to 6 dollars

[@thetramp123]

The thing is we already had a term for those, trade paperbacks is what I remember they were called before everyone wanted to call them graphic novels to sound more prestigious.

[@smpmuzpid]

@@rinkydinkfretboard8737 From a printing standpoint, a trade paperback just means that it's not a hardcover, but the cardboard the cover is made out of is a bit higher quality than usual, which yeah, feels like just marketing speak

[@HunterS.Catson]

​@@someghostinthewildI usually just buy paperbacks and hardcovers when they come out now. It makes so much more sense that way. You have to wait longer for them to come out usually, but you can read them all at once instead of 5 pages of story every month. It makes more financial sense as well. The only times I buy single issues is when they're a one-shot or they have cool looking collector variants that I can frame or something.

[@gameoveror7970]

⁠@@someghostinthewildthe funny thing is that’s reason why the average reader is buying manga or trade paperback more often now because single issue floppies are too expensive

[@will_da_man_]

"Twelve issues of She-Hulk, stapled together" lol 😭

[@SpikeJet2736]

as if 12 issues of She-Hulk action isn't peak literature. I'm offended indeed, sir

[@will_da_man_]

@SpikeJet2736 hey, John Byrne's run on She-Hulk is fucking ICONIC, I'm not dissing. I actually thought her Disney+ show was kinda fun too! She-Hulk as a character does not get enough credit, but I just thought it was funny Moore thought of her off the top of his head lol. I wonder what he thinks about her comics?

[@MXedits_1]

​@@will_da_man_ I know I will get hate for this but the SheHulk comics, especially the original run and select few of the later ones, are actually good comics with fun stories. The people who make the TV show, as usual, just hate the source material which offers a much more balanced perspective.

[@TheBmills415]

​@@SpikeJet2736 Did you just say "peak"???

[@SpikeJet2736]

@ What? Are you not a man of culture?

[@theycallmerisky619]

Hes just iterating the fact that the term "graphic novel" was created because grown ass men felt self conscious about their comic book collections which are perceived as childish. So instead of calling them comics they use the term graphic novels to make them seem more mature.

[@ayoyo_wololo]

In his pov, they are childish not just perceived as

[@phoenixxamvs1170]

People who collect comics are not self conscious about their collections. They embrace them

[@IsaacHozz]

@@phoenixxamvs1170 Especially now a days.

[@cullenbohannon1408]

It's childish. I'll get you a binkie too.

[@phoenixxamvs1170]

@cullenbohannon1408 do you no how many multi millionaires love comics ? People that are far more successful than you buddy

[@Pencilman246]

When you see anything Moore says, you have to consider that he spent decades seeing the worst of the comics industry and he’s jaded. When he says he hates the term graphic novel, you can take it one of two ways: you can see him attacking people who read juvenile comics, or you can see him saying that we don’t need to justify reading comics or give them a fancy name just because we’re adults. I think he really means the latter: publishers took a medium that he loves and has tried to elevate and they used his work to make it all seem more serious than it is with a new marketing term and that bothers him. Watchmen was a comic book, now it’s a graphic novel. Comic books are for kids. Graphic novels are for adults. That’s what bothers him, the marketing around it. He loves comics and I don’t think he thinks adults who read them are dumb but he doesn’t think you should put snooty grown-up terms on it either.

[@capuchinseven]

I dunno why reading a comic as an adult needs defending really. I'm 47, I've seen more death and violence than most, work hard and try and do right by my wife/partner and others; sometimes I just want to get in bed and read a good Batman comic.

[@DocBruceBanner]

​@capuchinseven And don't let this weirdo stop you from doing that. If you knew how he really lives you wouldn't think twice about it.

[@balabanasireti]

​@@DocBruceBanner okay?

[@sodasalesman6822]

yeah this is pretty much how I interpreted what he was saying here. he's a notoriously grumpy old man but he's got a solid point. people are so embarrassed to be into comics as adults(though honestly not as much since the advent of the MCU), but I've always been super open about it and I've never once gotten shit for it.

[@Daniel__Nobre]

But he does mention that one must be “emotionally retarded” to be reading monthly style comics of Green Lantern. I think its a bit of an offensive way to put it, but I do have to say that after you start reading european comics or some manga ones, like Ghost in the Shell, it does make it very hard to go back the monthly stuff Marvel, DC, Image, etc.. are pumping out, specially these days.

[@RarebitFiends]

He's right though. There is a structural difference in the storytelling of monthly issues, even decompressed ones, vs the narrative beats and structure of a longer form work. Calling collections graphic novels is like calling a dvd of a television show a movie because it has 3 hours of content on one disc.

[@CardboardBots]

To play devil's advocate... Charles Dickens' novels were serialized chapters before they were collected into book form. We afford them the dignity of novels and literature now.

[@RarebitFiends]

@@CardboardBots The reason we should not and the difference is right there in your comment. Floppy comics have a narrative structure that shares more in common with older television, which is to say an episodic structure inherent in each invidual issue. Reading six of these issues consecutively does not mean you have read something with the narrative structure of a novel any more than watching six episodes of Friends back to back means that you have watched a Friends movie. It is not the number of pages that made Dicken's novels into novels, it is the narrative structure. Similarly collections of Chekov's short stories don't magically become novels because they have been collected under one cover. So no, you are wrong, and perhaps you need to do some more reading since you don't seem to understand narrative structure.

[@CardboardBots]

@@RarebitFiends i don't disagree with you. Just playing devil's advocate. A DVD season does not a movie make. As a child I recall seeing some weekly episodes of cartoons edited together into movies. The TV show would have these 5 episode story arches which told a complete adventure. Obviously this weighs more heavily towards the 12 issues of She Hulk bound together.

[@RarebitFiends]

@@CardboardBots Fair enough, this is one I have discussed with people a lot over the years. I find it frustrating because the misuse of the term I think undermines actual graphic novels in a way, it confuses things for newcomers... and long before Moore said it, I was of the opinion it mostly came from people insecure about reading comics; which is a little sad to me because comics are such an amazing storytelling medium, there should be no shame in liking them.

[@godssss42]

@@RarebitFiends a lot of novels that were initially serialized were written with the knowledge they would be serialized and accordingly in some cases the “structure” was adapted to serialization…not to distract you from your studies of Chekhov, just saying

[@Saidwaitaminutechester]

I’m honestly fine with whatever banner bookstores want to hang above the comic section as long as people are buying them. I’m reminded of Craig Thompson’s ‘Blankets’ where he specifically added “An Illustrated Novel” under the title, as if the word “Graphic” was hurting the reputation of the art form. Moore’s “BIg Expensive Comic” label would’ve helped get the point across better. (Blankets is also very good, no disrespect)

[@GodLovesComics]

This is my feeling also. "Graphic Novel" is more marketing term than anything else. In fact, it comes from Will Eisner. I think I uploaded a video where he states that he was trying to get a longform comic (perhaps A Contract with God) published and contacted a conventional book publisher he knew (Baronet Books). He called them up and knew he needed to say something other than 'comic book" so he told them he had a graphic novel. They told him to bring it by and once the publisher saw it he said "Will, this is just a comic book." Since then there have been a lot of attempts at new terminology from "Drawn Novel" to Craig Thompson's redundant "Illustrated Novel." I think Blankets is a bit melodramatic and saccharine btw. Big Expensive Comic (in truth far less expensive in volume than individual pamphlets) is also a good term, but terrible in terms of marketing (except for snobs who want to flex the "expensive" element).

[@CardboardBots]

Blankets was so heartfelt to me. I couldn't put it down. So compelling. So much passion and beauty in every brushed line. A wonderful coming of age story.

[@forest8779]

Blankets is so overrated, give me something that takes risks, that isn't bland as fuck. Jesus talk about playing it safe, that was most boring fucking thing I've ever not finished (cause it was boring as all fuck) religious angst and first relationships aren't interesting if your not the one experiencing it.

[@Saidwaitaminutechester]

@@forest8779 Count me among the boring as fuck I guess. I can’t think of a comic I read in my late teens that spoke to me as much as Blankets. I remember it being shared among my friends and being pretty well loved. It’s properly-rated in my opinion, masterfully drawn, widely relatable. I still crack it open to remember what effective visual storytelling looks like.

[@tc2241]

I mean…it’s the most accurate description. I immediately know and understand what it is and it makes it easy to find more in that specific format

[@binho2224]

They are ficcional arc stories with graphics to help tell them. I don't know whats wrong about the term. Who cares what the f he thinks anyway. He is very talented but he was always nutts!

Few things amuse me more than the fact Alan Moore essentially despises superhero comics, but probably has done more than anyone who ever lived to gentrify the genre.

[@easystreetphoto2401]

he loves superheroes and regrets that everyone's fucked them up trying to copy him. he also loves other kinds of comics. and hates the working conditions.

[@JonGorga]

@@easystreetphoto2401Correct.

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

I never really liked the superhero stuff but there’s a lot of great indie comics out there I like.

[@baraths7914]

he doesn't despises superhero comics, he hates the industry and how it's now essentially revolves around them. There is a difference. He has talked extensively about how much he loves the silver age Superman comics, he loves the medium and hates the industry that's it.

[@cooldustin82]

I don't believe he dislikes superhero comics. His work on Supreme is like a love letter to Superman. He took what was Rob Liefeld's grim 'n gritty hyper-violent version of Superman and turned it into a pastiche of Silver Age Superman. Top Ten was like Law & Order or NYPD Blue with superheroes. He wrote them seriously and with respect, unlike, for example, Garth Ennis, who you can tell hates superheroes (he wrote Punisher humiliating Wolverine with body-wrecking violence, and also wrote Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe, where no one wearing a colorful costume is spared).

[@TortssMacKenzie]

Alan Moore making fun of Redditors will never not be funny

[@lyrebird5982]

Didn't he donate millions to BLM?

[@Johnnysmithy24]

It’s hard to find something that Alan Moore doesn’t hate

[@Bingo2501]

He hates this comment too, just so you know. 😜

[@bugsephbunnin4576]

It's a pretty justified hate to be honest

[@Lineedifuga]

Actually, he clearly loves a lot of things, as you can see in his stories. However, he just hates what the market wants to sell you like you are an idiot with a child brain

[@spiderphil]

Trade paper backs

[@GodLovesComics]

Yeah any such labels are just marketing terms so people can understand what format they are getting.

[@spiderphil]

@@GodLovesComics lol I love this interview of Rob Liefeld saying that Alan Moore likes to come off as some mage or warlock, but he's not lol

[@GodLovesComics]

@@spiderphil I kind of hate the Cartoonist Kayfake twats (really only Eddie Pissant), but I did hear that interview. Liefeld is probably the worst creator of comics in the modern era, but I don't doubt the quotes he attributes to Moore, because Rob isn't creative enough to make up dialogue like that on his own ;)

[@SeanMurphy1090-d5u]

"Trade paperback" refer to larger side paperback novels, as opposed to "mass market paperback".

[@thetramp123]

@@SeanMurphy1090-d5u This is also true but when referring to comics specifically that is what volumes of collected issues of comic books are called.

[@Opipop]

It’s a marketing issue and we are mixing markets here. Some publishers have misused the term to make a buck by repackaging old comics in book form, true. But there are many actual graphic novels from Maus to Persepolis, from Dan Clowes’ books to Logicomix. The term Graphic Novel has a noble origin, it first appears in English coined by Will Eisner’s ‘A Contract with God’. In French it was first described in the 19th century. The ‘comics have grown up’ scene in English has neglected the children’s market leading to confusion over what to call these things and who should be reading them. Is it so hard to just develop illustrated books for different age groups and interests? Grow the scene for goodness sake. France and Italy seem to manage.

[@khaledassaf6356]

Let's not forget Japan, where there are comics aimed at practically every group. Traditional books are aimed at various age, and gender, groups, so why is comics any different? It's just another storytelling medium. Heck, children books are being studied at university on the merit of their literature value alone.

[@officegossip]

he's spitting facts as always. A graphic novel should be a concise narrative work with a beginning, middle and end.

[@rolanddeschain6089]

Absolutely. I don't call the stapled-together stuff a graphic novel. Everyone should read what makes them happy, but we can still be correct.

[@toprak3479]

I think grahpic adaptations of actual novels are... well, graphic novels, though.

[@garyh183]

​@@rolanddeschain6089he wasn't just using this argument for the stapled together stuff though. He litteraly said watchmen is the same thing. The man is my hero, but he's also a miserable old contrarian. How can you trust the words of someone who calls his own fans smelly virgins, when he himself looks like he's never taken a bath or spoken to a woman in his life.

[@drafezard7315]

@@toprak3479 Those are "graphic adaptions of novels" as you said ,now if you want to talk about a novel which is graphic...

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

Indie comics usually follow this formula. The Walking Dead, Preacher and Locke & Key just to name a few.

[@DillonMaynard]

A graphic novel is a book that's intended to tell one full story (not counting cliffhangers) as opposed to a bunch of comic issues combined. It really shouldn't be difficult at all.

[@ignacius8466]

I love Alan's work. Just for once, I'd like to hear what the man enjoys.

[@GodLovesComics]

Here's Alan actually smiling at a compliment and expressing something resembling contentment kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaGvq4qrmqyNkLc&ab_channel=GodLovesComics

[@societalanchor]

The Simpsons

[@misterchubbikins]

He clearly enjoys shitting on your dreams

[@Beelzeboogie]

I've read Lost Girls. I think he just likes porn.

[@Kara_Pabuc]

He likes graphic novels.

[@MrReset94]

The issue here is not the term Graphic Novel, but how it is inappropriately used for the Omnibuses. When you put together multiple issues of a monthly or weekly publication you call that an Omnibus or a Collection, when you write a longer form story with beginning, middle and end and have an artist draw it, then that is what you call a Graphic Novel. Some novel get also adapted in a comic form and those are also Graphic Novels.

[@ThailandDantotherescue]

Alan Moore hates literally everything... he hates every movie adapted from his graphic novels, even though he says he has never watched them. He also hates the term graphic novel. I never see the guy happy about anything. I am sure he lives in a single wide trailer and burns the piles of money in his front yard.

[@kozueayuhara2724]

They can't accept comic books can tell mature stories, so they call graphic novel all the comic books that does that

[@superby1]

I agree with Moore. The term "Graphic Novel" is similar to how people throw around "Sports Entertainment" when they refer to watching professional wrestling. It's terms used to make yourself less ashamed of liking what you like. Enjoy what you like! There are actual graphic novels out there but now the term is used for either comics as a whole or trade paperbacks that collect issues. I blame Barnes and Noble for that in a way. The late 90's to early 2000's had them take tpbs out of the humor section (which was for the best) and gave them their own section, but to put a little prestige on them they labeled the section "Graphic Novels" and now people associate that term with comics as a whole.

[@alexbruce9499]

Or like action figures vs toys. It's using a more pretentious term to present them as being a reasonable thing for an adult to purchase instead of objects for children.

[@87crimson]

Or calling toys, "collectables" or "action figures"

[@thetramp123]

I think the blame is probably with marketing departments around comic adaptations in the late 90s and early 2000s. They wanted to adapt comic books into movies when they started to become popular but wanted them to sound more prestigious so they coined the term graphic novel, regardless of whether it was a miniseries with a clear beginning and end or 12 issues of X-men bound together.

[@Beelzeboogie]

​@alexbruce9499 Yeah "Action Figure" was coined in the 1960s around Hasbro's original G.I. Joe as a way to market dolls to boys. But let's be real here, it was a doll. You could dress it up and give it accessories. It was a doll. They wanted to copy the success of Barbie with a doll you could sell at a loss but make up the shortfall with overpriced accessories.

[@s3studios597]

No wrestling fan actually seriously uses "Sports Entertainment". People only use it ironically to refer to Vince McMahon's WWE and how he views wrestling. Vince is the one who uses "Sports Entertainment."

[@johnmanole4779]

"Oi boi! Have yo' go' a loicens for this video?"

[@lesweizman388]

funny, because one of alan's heroes, will eisner, was the one who created the graphic novel, with....a contract from god

[@williamerickson520]

Moore is absolutely correct. Even his own work has been published in single issues before getting compiled into single volumes. At least most TPB collections acknowledge this by putting the word "collection" in the title or cover. Our culture has been overrun by overgrown children.

[@viktorlogibernharsson2040]

I love just calling comics "comics"! Graphic Novel definitely feels more "Grown up" but ultimately it is trying to put comics into a box as novels with pictures but comics are a totally different and equally, if not more engaging literature medium. Just call them comics! It’s nothing to be ashamed of and you are not a lesser reader for reading comics! Love what you love and embrace it's uniqueness!

[@GodLovesComics]

Graphic Novel is just a marketing term, and a perfectly fine one. According to Will Eisner, when he was shopping around "A Contract With God" he contacted a friend at a book publisher and asked him if they would be interested in his new work, and they said they didn't publish comics. Eisner said, oh but this is a "graphic novel" and they said, "Oh, then we'd love to take a look at it." When Eisner presented them the pages, the publisher said "Will, this is just a comic book." So, at least according to Eisner, he came up with the term 'graphic novel" and did so, not to be pretentious but because he was trying to delineate his work from public perception that a comic could only be about adolescent superhero stories. Eisner wanted to show that comics could tell the same stories you would see in classic or contemporary literature.

[@viktorlogibernharsson2040]

@GodLovesComics I think the term "Graphic Novel" definitely helps to sell to more traditional publishers and traditional novel readers, I just wish the stigma of the words "comic book" wasn't so prevalent. But ultimately I'll enjoy the stories regardless. A good story is a good story.

[@GodLovesComics]

@@viktorlogibernharsson2040 Yes, what happened was that the mainstream, of course, co-opted Eisner's terminology and did exactly as Moore sardonically states: They started calling "12-issues of She-Hulk stapled together" a graphic novel. I don't think it worked in terms of marketing books to "serious readers" because seeing Superman on the cover punching Batman is not going to change their perception of a comic book simply because someone is now calling it a GN. But it did matter a little more to libraries, who more often applied it correctly to long-form works with some literary aspirations (Maus, Fun Home, and Persepolis being obvious examples). In the end it's just labeling and formatting. It doesn't do anything to insure any different level of either quality or content.

[@thetramp123]

Yeah, the thing that bothers me about the term is it's trying to associate it with a different art medium which just makes the term sound insecure rather than more intellectual. And it'll have the opposite effect letting people know comics can be more thoughtful than the average superhero issue because any time there's an interesting comic that could make the medium potentially more mature (and not just something that has curse words and blood in it) they want to slap the graphic novel label on it. smh

[@jimbrody4945]

It’s possible for someone to be “right” in the opinions they express but still be “in the wrong” in how they move through life and express themselves to others. I wish more people understood this.

[@CardboardBots]

He can be right and wrong at the same time. Comics are comics regardless their physical format. Collecting periodic issues of a comic book/magazine doesn't make it magically a high literary achievement. It may elevate it somewhat because someone found the material worthy to collect and represent for future audiences. I'm looking at a shelf with Akira, Cerebus, Stray Bullets, Habibi, Michael Rabagliati, Charles Burns, Dylan Horrocks, Jeff Lemire, From Hell, Daniel Clowes, and Beanworld. I see stand alone graphic novels and collected stories that have plenty of artistic and literary merit. There is genre stuff there too. Superheros, horror, romance, children's fantasy. Stuff that challenges, that reinvents, that makes you think. It can do that while being a guilty pleasure.

[@GodLovesComics]

All true, of course. Clearly when he says "12-issues of She-Hulk stapled together" it's quite funny and cutting, but also technically a collection rather than a GN. In terms of substance or quality that's irrelevant, however. Surely he agrees with you on Clowes and Burns and Los Bros etc. He's just railing against the fact that the term "graphic novel" lent aid and comfort to superhero fanboys who then used it to perpetuate that the wrong sort of comics were equal to serious literature. Prickly and pretentious maybe (especially when he wrote many such books himself, even if he disavows them now) but as you say, he's both wrong and right.

[@tc98826]

There's a world of difference between Maus and Spider-Man, but I take his point.

[@walterhoward5512]

He didn't say anything wrong.

[@GodLovesComics]

I agree. He's not wrong.

[@thehmc]

@@GodLovesComics Unless you know anything about comics or art, then he's just a pretentious wannabe. He's every art school kid with bad taste.

[@groofay]

@@thehmc He's been a published writer since the '70s, in an industry that's flooded with people saying "if you know anything, [insert random bullshit here]" while defending the likes of Stan Lee. Clearly he's done something right.

[@thehmc]

@@groofay "He's been a published writer since the 70s." So have almost all the writers he just criticized in this video. Like I said, it's always obvious that Moore fans aren't very well versed in thinking.

[@groofay]

@@thehmc And just like that you've ignored everything else I wrote, using your own point against yourself. Try to actually address points next time.

[@plaidchuck]

Graphic Novel was just an industry term the publishers made up when books like Maus and Watchmen got big to get some publicity and “prestige”.

[@GodLovesComics]

Will Eisner created the term in an attempt to sell A Contracts with God to a book publisher. Then the mainstream publishers co-opted it as a marketing term for books like Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns, before inevitably labeling collections with the term from which Moore's "12-issues of She-Hulk stapled together" label stems.

[@wishesandfishes]

Im pretty sure Alan Moore hates everything.

[@Acheron93]

I’ve yet to see a single video of the man titled “Alan Moore says he liked [blank]” so you’re probably correct.

[@KeijiMaeda86]

I agree with him. Collected issues are not graphic novels. They're trades. But not a "novel." A novel had a beginning, middle, and definitive end. A volume of an ongoing monthly is not a graphic novel. There might be very few exceptions but yeah, he's right.

[@johnbowen7314]

Gotta love Alan Moore. I feel very lucky to have been a young teen exposed to his stuff, Captain Britain, his Night Raven short series, Dr and Quinch, Marvel Man… Even before Watchmen he was trying to introduce more interesting and complex elements to comics.

[@ckannan90]

Agree with him, though actual graphic novels do exist (where the work was not initially serialized and only exists as this complete unit)

[@boydegg]

I remember that time. Suddenly EVERY trade paperback got labelled as a graphic novel. Alan Moore knows the score.

[@Toyspriceguide]

Love this interview. It's like his comic book Gettysburg address. Short but packs a punch

[@georgevelis4651]

look im not saying he's wrong but is there anything this guy DOESN'T hate? ive never seen him be positive about anything.

[@Blackferret66]

He's the Harlan Ellison of comics.

[@sylph8005]

He seems pretty positive about magick (when he’s not in a wizarding war with Grant Morrison)

[@Linklex7]

Strangely enough, he enjoyed the Watchmen Satruday Morning cartoon parody. It might be the closest thing to an adaptation he liked and you figured Moore would hate it but he doesn’t.

[@aolson1111]

Do you even care about what he likes? Because you and others seem to only care when he talks about things he doesn't like.

[@Michael-hw5wk]

Very true, but what does one call a work of sequential art with a narrative? "Graphic" is not an appropriate term as it suggests that all such works have adult content such as Moore's own graphic novel The Lost Girls which is very graphic and very inappropriate for anyone under 18, but most graphic novels are like Moore states, just bound collections of Spider-Man or Superman comics. So, where does that leave graphic novels that are much more sophisticated and advanced, novels like Moore's Watchmen which has all the hallmarks of a novel: metaphor, symbolism, etc. and is also listed as one of Time Magazine's 100 Greatest English Novels list? Authors like Moore, Eisner, Spiegelman, Gaiman, and Morrison have spent decades pushing comics and graphic novels into a respected literary form better suited for intellectual adults than children, but how does one differentiate bound collections of superhero comics from serious works of literary merit unless one comes up with a different name for such works? Also, bless Mr. Moore for giving ALL of the money he earns from film adaptations of his work to Black Lives Matter. He is an inspiration.

[@plaidchuck]

Its funny he donates his money like that but at the same time said he hated the Watchmen tv show which explored those themes

[@SixWormHandicap]

Whether he's trying to be nice or not, everything with this man is about proving how smart he is. DC made him look like an idiot and he's hated them wretchedly for it for years.

[@MinosDaedalus]

But there's a difference between a comic book like Marvel's Cpt. America and a comic book like Monstress, as much as there's a difference between a novel and novella and pulps. So "comic" is a pretty broad term and not all comics are "comic".

[@GodLovesComics]

Moore is aware of all that of course. He's clearly just disgusted by how the mainstream co-opted the term and applied it to everything for marketing purposes. I like manga, but personally hated Monstress, which just looked and read very sterile and formulaic with all the "pretty" art having no more gravity than decorative fixtures around a room.

[@PartlySmith]

"I agree with what you said, but you said it in the most annoying way possible" moment for me

[@MaggotTayne]

That’s the Alan Moore house style. Every statement that comes out of his mouth is both completely reasonable and completely infuriating

[@filipirodrigues8569]

​@@MaggotTayneIt's only infuriating for the defenders of two multimillionaire companies

[@darkwyve]

@@MaggotTayne Reasonably infuriating people are the most fun to watch... as long as you are not involved. ;)

[@Kong20012]

Except he seems to think that all comicbooks are just capeshit when there are tons of well written indie comics, some of which are one offs. In fact the existence of one offs completely shits on his entire point.

[@gustavgnoettgen]

That's also what bothers him about "graphic novels".

[@galacticgufus]

I recently learned that 'visual novel' apparently means 'video game'.

[@Hiiimy]

What doesn’t he hate at this point?

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

He hates everything that is good and wholesome. He is a goblin.

[@Hiiimy]

@@gregoryl.levitre9759 the dude hates superman. when i learned that, I realized knew what type of person he really is. but still he's regarded as someone important for some reason.

[@Daniel_Delayne]

​@@Hiiimywell, Supes IS very hateable to a rational human being

[@Linklex7]

@@HiiimyDidn’t he write some of the best Superman stories?

[@Hiiimy]

@@Linklex7 Nope.

[@modernpeasants7]

I’ve always called them comics. Never knew the term graphic novel was actually tied to comics. Not sure what I thought a graphic novel was until now 😂

[@GodLovesComics]

That's so interesting.

[@skeezaworkan]

There's a lot of actual graphic novels out there. Maybe Alan Moor doesn't know about them. But comics industry has much more to offer than just a superhero monthly issue stuff.

[@JJJ111JJJ]

What can a comic do that a novel can't?

[@skeezaworkan]

@@JJJ111JJJ It's different medium, with different means of expression for the author. So, it's not like comics are better in something (maybe they are, idk), but they may be better for a given author. Graphic novels like Maus, Persepolis or Blankets are what they are, because they're expressed in this particular medium. And if I need to find something that novels can't do, but comics can, that would be of course sequential visual storytelling, which can put an accent on different things in the story than novels can. But I don't think that anyone needs to pick just one medium. I love novels, comics, movies, music, paintings and poetry. Everything has its place in (pop)culture.

[@MLB9000]

Yes, it’s kind of like calling your train set a ‘model railway’

[@gif303]

Just for clarification, graphic novel is a publishing format. It doesn’t refer to graphic content nor being akin to a novel, it’s a standalone story published in a single medium. In this video, Alan Moore described a trade paperback, a collection of comicbook issues in a single volume.

[@chaplinreid]

What I like about Alan Moor is that he tell as it is. If it wasn't for him the comic books industry would be in a boring place. He also one of the few comic books writers who push boundaries in mature story telling in comic books and he also beat the comic books censorship . So for me he be in my top ten most imported comic books writers. 🤔

[@thehmc]

Lol. Frank Miller was and still is miles ahead of Alan Moore. So are Grant Morrison and Garth Ennis for that matter.

[@chaplinreid]

Alan Moor was the first British comic book writer to break into the American comics books industry. He he worked on a lot British comic before he make it in the big time in a America. And DC comics at that time wanted new creative talents to work on their comics at that time Alan Moor was the comic book writer they noticed So he was first one to work for DC after that Grant Morrison and other British comic books writers follow. But I do like Frank Miller work as a artists and writer Daredevil , Batman Year One and Dark Night Return. And I also like Grant Morrison Animals Man ,Doom Patrol . I remember reading those books at the time . Morrison and Miller would be on my top ten list as well. Half the writer would be British and the other half would be American on my ten list.🤔

[@GodLovesComics]

@@thehmc I don't think Miller as a writer is even remotely on the same level as Moore. Grant Morrison's work can be brilliant but as a body, it is tainted by the consumption of drugs that often makes it too self-indulgent and obtuse. Ennis is smart but very much one-note in his constant desire to shock and disgust which is why you hear so little about him when taking about the best writers ever in teh medium. Moore's name will always come up in that debate.

[@yalbad5160]

Comics today are in a much more boring place BECAUSE OF HIM! All the endless "deconstructionist" dark gritty crap

[@ZurditaDinamita]

​@@yalbad5160 Oh, yes, how dare you, Alan Moore, take a bright, childish figure as a superhero and make an adult satire? How dare you mock about characters fighting crime in underpants? 😱 And finally, how dare you to use those characters and tell an interesting story, adapted to your adult audience?!

[@KidBakz]

I think its the stigma surrounding the word. I think the nerds were getting picked on and they changed it to graphic novel so it sounds more sophisticated and less nerdy

[@groofay]

And he's right, to be fair. They're all just stories, and the word "novel" is thrown around to manufacture prestige. It's all made up and meaningless. Watchmen is a great story, and so is East of Eden, and so is Neil Gaiman's Sandman. Just take it in, folks. Nothing is being destroyed.

[@justsomeguywhoedits4387]

yeah except for the part where he basically called adult comic book fans, "Emotionally Retarded." 😐

[@MrReset94]

The thing is…comic is like saying book, it still doesn’t define what kind of book. Some are periodic (cause they get published on a schedule) some are complete stories that are akin to a novel, but with images rather than just the words, thus graphic novels.

[@zamiadams4343]

Well said Alan, All comics seem to go close to the edge but they seem firmly rooted in the young adult category. I recently bought "Crossed" thinking it was going to be a revelation, an adult horror story, but nah, just the same comic book stylings as per usual.

[@beans5307]

It makes sense it for Alan to hate the term, it was created to allow dc to sell watchmen in traditional bookstores and because pf how sucsessful watchmen was it stopped the rights of the book to return to Moore. That being said I still disagree

[@DementedDistraction]

I hate it too, it's a term for comic books made by those who were embarrassed to say they read comic books back in the 80s and 90s, and it's unfortunately persisted to this day.

[@ObjectHistory]

Great creator of course but... old man yells at cloud

[@ВладСвистунов-ы8ж]

In my native language there is a word which I prefer the most about the comic. That is "Malöpys". It can be translated as "drawn story" but it is one simple word which contains the meaning of all aspects that "comics" have.

[@toddbenedict3555]

i'm coming to town

[@wilsonconvictor]

When I found what they call by the term "graphic novel" I thought that it was not accurate, because it really is just a comic book. As I thought, a real "graphic novel" should be like an illustrated novel, but one that the illustrations also play an essencial part; for instance, the narrative is text, but instead of describing a character or a place, there's the illustration, as a part of the narrative too, whereas in a normal illustrated novel there's the description in the text and the illustrations are just a accessory.

[@DanielleA2023]

Greatest writer of American comics ever, never to be surpassed ❤

[@GodLovesComics]

Of Western comics ever. I agree.

[@miguelbranquinho7235]

Jaime Hernandez is right there.

[@Daniel-91897]

What an unpleasant man. There's no difference in spending a weekend playing a video game or watching The Penguin than spending it reading a classic novel or at the opera. Neither option is more mature or less of a waste of time, we're all just killing time until we die.

[@landofthesilverpath5823]

You got a loisance for that Graphic Novel?

[@MrThirtyH]

Now, is he criticizing the term Graphic Novel itself, or just they way they can just be collections of vaguely related single-issue comics? Because I would not consider Watchmen a comic book. Its narrative structure would work just as well as a novel. Put some graphics on that novel and you've got yourself a graphic novel. I also don't like with him saying "They're not particularly graphic" because I feel like that's a widespread misunderstanding of the word, just like 'Explicit.' It doesn't mean mature, bloody, or sexual; it means visual, or described so clearly that it feels visual in your mind. Unrelated, I didn't know his British accent was that thick, so hearing him use the word 'loicense' sent me into a laughing fit.

[@MutantsInDisguise]

Alan Moore saying facts, as usual.

[@DusanPavlicek78]

I'm not a native English speaker and I enjoy his accent even though it takes a moment to get used to ("headloins", "loysense" etc.) 🤭

[@Jamaicafunk]

I’m pretty sure Will Eisner coined the term. Who you gonna listen to? Eisner or Moore?

[@GodLovesComics]

Well Moore never said he invented it. Eisner came up with it because he was trying to sell "A Contract With God" to a conventional book publisher but he knew they wouldn't look at a comic book so he told them he had a "graphic novel" and they were excited. Then when the publisher saw it he said, "looks great Will, but this is a just a comic book!" It got marketed to the book trade and libraries as a graphic novel, and of course then all the comics publishers latched onto the term for marketing purposes.

[@Jamaicafunk]

@@GodLovesComics Correct. You know your stuff.

[@GodLovesComics]

@@Jamaicafunk It's the kind of stuff I usually forget or don't pore over, but I think I may have posted a snippet of an Eisner interview where he told that exact story ;)

[@Wurzelknecht]

100% agree with him. Never got the term "graphic novel." It's just a fancy name for a big comic book with several issues that belong to the same story put together.

[@PrivateCitizen84]

I am an old, but a fairly new reader of comic stories. How differentiate I call a comic a floppy. A collection of comics in one book a trade paperback and a Graphic Novel to me doesn't have a floppy run. I also have those comic hardback collected works and again I don't see them as Graphic Novels.

[@danzigvssartre]

Any work of fiction is an escape into imagination and therefore in some sense a reversion into childhood.

[@jpc2470]

@@rinkydinkfretboard8737 There's nothing wrong with enjoying stuff you liked as a kid, but people who try to make their childish interests sound more "mature" come off like posers lol. It also feels a bit disengenuous to say people either enjoy "childish things" or "read Tolstoy constantly" lol, there's definitely a middle ground.

[@rinkydinkfretboard8737]

@@jpc2470 good comment. Here’s my answer: “come off like posers” that’s fair. But that’s assuming that people have put that degree of thought into it. Sometimes people just use a word for something without thinking in any detail at all about its etymology. It’s a more recent word for Alan so I get it. But for lots of people it’s just the term for a long form comic. Big whoop. Eg……..picking a random example, when was the lat time you really thought hard about where the word “tradition” originates and what it means ? Plenty of people won’t have thought about it any more deeply than that. Alan clearly has, since it irks him. Hence I sense a touch of projection. I’d be more ambivalent if he directed his ire towards marketing culture that coined the term. But I’m pretty sure he’s directing it at “readers”. Or viewers, if you want to disassociate the art for, from literature lol. He also completely ignores the element of visual art Inherent in the comic book here, while traducing the craft of the artists that creat them. Which seems strange but then he has made a career “writing” comic books, but not drawing them. Strange. The simplest explanation to me is that he’s let the mask slip here about his own insecurity. I could be wrong, and he’s just pompous but that in itself is usually an indicator of …..insecurity. A tautology I know, but there it is. It’s the simplest explanation so I’m happy to take a punt that it’s close to the truth. “Disingenuous” no I don’t think so. I think you might have missed that the intention was sarcasm. That’s on me if I wasn’t quite clear. But the point landed anyway because you made the exact point that I was intending to highlight by my sarcastic employment of “reductio ad absurdum”. Specifically that there is a middle ground, as you say. 👍 thf though now I’ve answered you, I recall that I was responding to the comment from Alan that people,that read comics “haven’t grown up”. That’s a broad statement to apply To someone doing something childlike. Is he saying that about Barack Obama? Whom famously reads Spider man……? C’mon……..this rant is not. His finest moment lol.

[@oldcowbb]

so why are people so ashamed of the name comic and has to call it "graphic novel" like they are more edgy

[@crazydavebrasil]

yeah, definitely Faust and the latests Venom issue are on the same level....

[@HoughStone]

This is the most triggering stupid comment I've seen this month, I'm sure you don't mean ill. It's just that it got to me. While reversion is not a necessarily negative, to call any fiction at all an escape into childhood is to call any sort of religion as a way to escape reality, when in fact it started as a way to EXPLAIN reality, but in a cosmogonical/superstitial sort of way. Fiction is a way to express your inner world onto a ludical media that requires inmterpretation and distances yourself from what you are writing. It can be reversion, but it isn't necessarily.

[@fettifuego]

I mean just looking at this take in all angles the word graphic means visual art and the word novel is basically a collection of short stories. Basically it’s the proper definition from the way I’m looking at it. I tend to call them both interchangeably so I see what he means

[@novembersun2988]

Alan Moore hates the kids on his lawn, and he even hates the lawn.

[@dysnomia34A]

I never did understand the term "graphic novel". It made me assume "comic" was reserved for things like Archie, and "graphic novel" were comic books written to be more serious. But then there was never any real distinction made in the market .

[@bharatbhushanbhandari9855]

Juvenile rubbish is the correct way to describe the current state of comic books and movies based on them

[@GodLovesComics]

Probably the correct terms for all mainstream comics. But Moore too once liked them and perhaps still does to some degree. However, if he has fully outgrown them that just means he is a perfectly normal, intelligent and well-adjusted man of his age.

[@Autonova]

“What I think happened was was that…”

[@shindanrod]

I always thought the term "graphic novel" is pretentious and wrong. I love comics since the 80's, but they are not graphic novels. In the other hand is sad to see people like Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman or Morrison that seems to hate comic books and supetheroes, being famous and well stablished becauae... oh... well... comics and super heroes and the people that buy their shit

[@brenttwilson]

He's such a miserable bastard at times. But he's right about this particular subject. I just wish he'd cheer up a bit.

[@Mr.winlock]

Very telling that to him the word graphic equals violence and not image Graphic novels is a perfectly reasonable name to describe the format and size of the story Calling it a comic is reductive and acting like there's been no progress is ignorant at best or creatively malicious at worst

[@residentalien818]

EXACTLY BRO like man I appreciate Moore's work but some of the stuff he says about comics comes off as so ignorant

[@titanicisshit1647]

you're the type of people he's talking about mate , sry

[@Mr.winlock]

@@titanicisshit1647 ya and? Still reductive of him

[@dallassegno]

WaHwAh my CaWmIX

[@Mr.winlock]

@@dallassegno what a mature and constructive addition to the conversation 👏

[@TheSickNeeds]

This dude seems overly pissed that he bought what he thought was a new She Hulk adventure and ended up with 12 reprints of issues he already had! Should have flipped through before you plunked down your allowance!

[@ry7609]

lmao at everyone in the comments quick to get defensive because he totally just called them out

[@dedbatt8869]

And proving him right lol. Only someone emotionally ____ would write an angry comment about a guy who won’t see it.

[@krisius1]

Watchmen was more of a well written story boarded tv mini series than a classic super hero comic book. Comics a funny thing, they should be for kids, but kids can’t afford them. I used to buy comics all the time as a pre-teen. I loved the art and was quite a prolific artist (well kid level art) and was always drawing. Then comics started getting expensive. They went to $1.75 Canadian and I was like “I’m out”. A few years later I was walking through a store and where once there were kids standing there rifling through comics, it was a bunch of grown men. Comics were now in excess of 5 bucks a book. No kids were buying them. That right there is the death of comics. No new readers. My kids have zero interest in them. All the stuff that was marketed for kids now gets marketed to adults who can’t grow up.

[@mechakingkong8205]

Bro has a point.

[@teknomax7883]

He's right. Very few comic books could fit into that monicker, but people throw around the term just for a frikkin compilation of Thor or something.

[@janoycresva276]

Pretentious snob much?

[@damianpimpinella977]

I think he’s arguing that “Graphic Novel” is pretentious and snobby

[@janoycresva276]

@ He’s very quick to judge other things for being exactly what he himself is.

[@exodia421]

"A license to a lot of people not to have to actually grow up" this is so fucking accurate, too many people living like this is some type of good vs evil, so childish

[@billyliar1614]

Clearly has a chip on his shoulder about being considered a serious literary figure. Sorry love, but you can give away your shoes and sleep in a hammock, won't make you any more 'worthy' and it certainly won't make you interesting. His novel Jerusalem was evidence of this, just overcompensating, trying far too hard. The secret of good writing is economy of prose, not a lot of floweriness and pretentious, formless plotting disguised as complexity. The mark of a good writer, fundamentally, is not some dreary political sermonising about why you shouldn't like your fascist heroes, but a strong, well conceived story which actually, you know, engages it's audiences and, yes, even permits them to misbehave. I would agree with him on one point though - the comics medium is capable of so much more, I've always found it hard to believe that Watchmen and V for Vendetta were the best we could do.

[@weirdguy4948]

That’s funny

[@Ernan_Films]

You kind of just cancelled your own point. That’s exactly what Alan Moore did

[@billyliar1614]

@@Ernan_Films Sorry, did what exactly ? Both wmen and V for V were basically vehicles for Moore's politics and just long, windy diatribes against what he perceives as 'fascism', eg heroes and the nation state, as applied to the West at any rate. I could forgive him that if they were fast-paced and entertaining stories but they weren't, not for me anyway. And I don't necessarily disagree with his politics but it seems to me he was elevated by the critical establishment because of them and little else. As is often the case with such didactic material, the comics readership engaged on an unintended level - eg rather than interpret superheroes such as Rorschach as 'problematic' as Moore intended, they largely engaged with them sympathetically as superheroes so Moore even fails on his own terms as agit-prop subversive. He clumsily wields pretentious aspirations for the superhero genre, seems to have a problem with content he considers 'juvenile' or 'unworthy' (didn't they say the same about the Beatles once?) and a hang up about being considered a worthy literary figure. Bottom line, both books are a heavy going, dreary read.

[@Ernan_Films]

@@billyliar1614 well I mean sure, I haven’t read for “V for V” yet but what your faulting Alan Moore with can be said for literally almost any other acclaimed writer. Just think about mark twain. I mean do you even like actual novels at this point? Your complaining about not having a plot while complaining it’s a shock that other comics can’t do better it’s kind of hypocritical for a lack of a better word. How do you want a meaningful impactful story without it being personal?

[@billyliar1614]

​@@Ernan_Films I doubt it. What, so Mark Twain wrote pretentious, over-reaching novels about Superheroes did he ? A lot of acclaimed writers are actually entertaining, though I would agree that a lot aren't and are guilty of exactly the same charges. Literary worth and entertainment value are not mutually exclusive. And Moore's writing was personally inspired by his secret life as a masked vigilante in an alternate dystoptian reality was it ? Erm, not entirely sure where you're going with your other point about hypocrisy either - I don't believe Wmen or VforV deserve their exalted critical status .

[@forbiddencolor]

Graphic novel = Self-contained 50+ page comic books Trade paperback or omnibus = Collection of monthly issues in one book

[@Xanegoh]

Alan Moore is the "man yells at cloud" meme.

[@aolson1111]

People ask him questions and he answers them truthfully. He doesn't take the time to speak out otherwise. Would you prefer he just lie?

[@CBs_Bill_from_Montana]

Never really liked his books too much but always have loved his honesty.

[@airsir9559]

He’s out of line but he’s right.

[@GodLovesComics]

If he's right then he can't be out of line. We should always push for honesty over polite facade.

[@airsir9559]

@@GodLovesComics it’s a meme

[@GodLovesComics]

@@airsir9559 Okay. Sorry I can't keep track on the billion memes out there.

[@gishigoshi]

@@GodLovesComicsdawg actin like Alan Moore himself

[@ReuploadArchivist]

That’s exactly how I think of Ozymandius 😂

[@Draxtor]

I will read my FIRST Alan Moore work this year: his INSANE HUGE NOVEL called "Jerusalem"!

[@AussieActionFigures]

The term graphic novel is just a marketing term. The sooner people realise this the better. Graphic novel just means comic in a prestige format.

[@CrestfallenMadMatt]

What thing Moore doesn't hate, well is the guy who Really thinks he is a Actual Magician, anyway he have a very good point I agree

[@EarthIIdude]

always right, very lucid.

[@Shy_guy89]

My guy, I'll be reading comics in my hospice bed at the end

[@chuckscott4661]

does dude Ever stop complaining? 🙄

[@theskarletpinkernel5745]

What are you doing now?

[@Bevzthejcs]

My daughter asked me if I was ever into comics as a child, I said yes and wistfully with great fondness described Dr and Quinch to her... she was horrified... i think she was expecting me to describe something a bit more childish lol - I explained to her that the comic book world in the UK when I grew up had 2000AD and Alan Moore in it.... There was nothing childish about it 🤣

[@privatechannel8462]

He was a good comic writer, now he's just up himself. I've no time for him.

[@acerjuglans383]

As an 80s kid.... I think graphic novels was to differentiate Archie comics from Watchmen and The Dark Knight. There was a very creative and darker boom in the 80s because of writers like Alan Moore and Frank Miller, accompanied by equally creative and dark artists. It was a moment in time, when comic books had grown up, to a degree.

[@Pixxeria]

That's like saying that Jumanji is a movie but Tenet is a film

[@bobbysmitty1628]

So, what about the superhero movies that make billions at the box office? Those aren't profiting that much with just kids as their audience. People need to stop gatekeeping and trying to be the standard bearer for who can do what or read what.

[@GodLovesComics]

Moore (nor anyone else) expressing their opinion in no way stops you from reading what you like or seeing whatever movies you like. The fact that superhero movies appeal to all audiences probably doesn't change Moore's thesis, that it's still lowbrow entertainment. Something that I always resented was the idea perpetuated by The Comics Journal and other critics that the reason comics didn't appeal to women specifically and to adults in general was that superheroes were solely male power fantasies. No one who said that ever recanted when in fact ALL ages and genders flocked to superhero movies. As I had been saying all along, "It was the medium, stupid!"

[@bobbysmitty1628]

@@GodLovesComics It's a bizarre form of shaming, if that is the intent. People are overly opinionated about what recreation others take joy in. If it's not comics, it's video games. A more acceptable mainstream pastime would be to watch sports. No one is criticizing them for wearing jerseys for teams they never played on, or colleges they never attended. It's bizarre, but if that is how he wishes to spend his time...

[@GodLovesComics]

@@bobbysmitty1628 There is a clear element of both self-flagellation and self-importance in many of Moore's statements. In one of the other interviews I posted (I think from The AntiGravity Room) Moore goes on, apropos of nothing, to state that he is largely responsible for the "grim and gritty" decade of comics that followed Watchmen. Which is on one hand is taking responsibility for a terrible trend in comics that followed in his wake, but also ascribing a lot of weight and influence to his own work and its importance. Anyway, I completely agree with you about real sports vs video games vs so-called nerdy preoccupations. I grew up watching all manner of sports but these days get as much enjoyment from competitive League of Legends as I do the NFL. I remember telling an overseas friend who is a very esteemed comics critic (and Doctor) what a huge event the League World Championship was. It was held in South Korea's Olympic Stadium, in fact. He watched a tiny amount and dismissed it by saying something like the players were just "little kids." So it's weird to watch 20-year olds competing in League, but he is a huge soccer fan and has zero compunction cheering wildly for 20-year old (and teenage) soccer stars? Ditto with "real sports fans" dismissing a comics convention as just a big gathering a freakish misfits and nerds who obsess over comics. Meanwhile the same sports fans are spending untold hours every week obsessing over their Fantasy Football leagues. That's soooooo much cooler and more masculine. ;)

[@bobbysmitty1628]

@@GodLovesComics 👏👏Well played. 😂

[@cipher2956]

when i first got into comics a few years ago i was confused between the terms comics and graphic novels i thought they are two different things but after a lot of research i found out the were the same (:

[@MEBoisv]

"ALAN MOORE hates" was all you really needed to say

[@gmann6269]

I rewatched the film Ghost World (which I love) and was googling articles about it and I finally found out that the "graphic novel" Ghost World was really a series of strips/episodes first printed in a comic called Eightball that had been put together and released as a book several years later. Ghost World the comic is quite good but I think the film surpasses it.

[@danmcdaid]

Completely tuned out at 0:52

[@MacenW]

Thought it was a dude in drag

[@BeataMiszel-wr5uu]

He has a point but these are just names if the story is good and the visuals stunning then a comicbook is a work of art - that's what it is all about - whether or not it is a work of art in some way or ways