What does the Bible say about freewill vs. predestination?

In this video from the Ask Anything Tour, Dr. Mohler explains the paradox of freewill and predestination.
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[@maptinkler]

"if I didn't do it, I can't lose it"! Awesome summary statement Bro. Mohler!

[@jolookstothestars6358]

@@maptinkler Jesus does it, believe it!!!

[@matt8637]

I think a more simple direct answer would be better. "There is mystery here. We choose God freely trusting and loving Him, yet we come to realize that He enabled us to trust and believe in Him through His Word, through His Spirit and grace. Choose God freely, joyfully and fully. Yet know that God has enabled you to do so. Believe in Him....By grace you have been saved..."

[@paulwells4372]

The Bible clearly teaches we do not choose God, it clearly shows us that God chooses us.

[@matt8637]

We must choose God. God first chooses us and enables us to choose Him. Otherwise you go into Quietism.

[@danielwhite8168]

”Then Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen the Lord, to serve him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” He said, “Then put away the foreign gods that are among you, and incline your heart to the Lord, the God of Israel.”“ ‭‭Joshua‬ ‭24‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[@VictorFelipe82]

No mystery but contradiction.

[@larriveeman]

@@paulwells4372 Joshua 24 15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, all are true

[@davidcrutchfield138]

I would encourage people to read, “Bondage of the Will” by Martin Luther. I would suggest that you read the JI Packer translation. This book helped me understand the issue better than any other. It is the dialogue between Erasmus and Luther. It is classic! Blessings

[@toddstevens9667]

It’s one of my favorites. I actually require my undergraduate students in World Civ After 1500 to read the book. They invariably love it … mostly because of Luther’s use of language. I’d love to see him on modern social media platforms. I doubt any of my students actually agree with his perspective on the issue, but it’s a good primer for understanding the issues. I one time actually had a student write a paper comparing Luther’s Bondage and Edwards’ The Freedom of the Will. He seemed surprised that they seem to be making the exact same argument with book titles that seemed so absolutely at odds. 😁 But that’s an excellent suggestion for further reading. Thanks.

[@williammarinelli2363]

For those who lack the time or interest (or will), I read it and, in the vernacular of the first Lutheran, it was ripe shit. Paul said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved," and along comes a 16th century scatological anti-semite who writes a 300 page treatise that retorts, "But you can't".

[@davidcrutchfield138]

@@williammarinelli2363 that’s funny. Maybe the point is being missed here. No one seeks after God. There are no good people. Luther’s point was Grace that comes through the Gospel, not Rome! Hopefully that helps? It was a funny statement however.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@williammarinelli2363And yet Luther believed and preached, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” And countless generations of Christians have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and been saved through his ministry. Go figure.

[@williammarinelli2363]

@@davidcrutchfield138 thanks for the response. If I were a single verse proof texted, and I'm especially not in poetic books of the Bible, I would be open to 1. The earth will continue forever as it is now. 2. My grandson has snake venom in his saliva. 3. Said grandson told lies at birth before knowing how to speak or think. 4. Money talks. 5. Birds tattle. 6. The wicked die in peace without suffering. 7. By believing in the Lord one's offspring are saved. 8. Gates lift up their heads. 9. Mountains clap hands. 10. God has wings. And no one seeks God as is stated in Rom 3:11 quoting Psalms. The context there mentions feet swift to shed blood. Except of a bloody nose dished out in a school age fist fight, I don't recall shedding blood. But then again, on a navy sub, we could launched stuff that would have evaporated millions. In the overall narrative of Scripture, people seek God. In Acts 12, sergius Paulus seeks God in vs 7 and the gentiles seek God's word/message in vs 42. That's two instances in one chapter. Now have 1189 more chapters before making poetic prose of rom 3:11 the be all end all. Thanks for chance to sfogare (vent)

[@fcedulaiii]

According to Him, God is so sovereign that He can make some people come to God, but not sovereign enough to make all people come to Him instead? So much for the definition of sovereign.

[@TrustinSimpson]

Yeah, its sad that not a single scripture was referenced in by this pastor for an entire major doctrine. 1 Timothy 2:4-6 is one if many places in scripture that expressly state salvation is for everyone and its God's desire that it be attained by everyone. In all that sovereignty word salad I'm not surprised there was more obfuscation of the topic that preaching of the Word.

[@Fireking285]

It seems that you're using "Sovereign" as if it means deterministic control over everything. Which conflicts with "agency" as you described it.

[@cyrilnorrie8450]

That’s a very good answer to a much debated issue. God knew us before we were in the womb. Paul tells us that those He (God) foreknew, He predestined. You are absolutely right when you said that God can’t be somewhat sovereign or He isn’t sovereign and we know the Bible states that He is sovereign.(not your exact words)

[@ryleighloughty3307]

Before creation, God predetermined everything. He already knows what the new heaven and earth will look like and who will inhabit them. There is nothing that we can do to alter his plan.

[@cortneybunge359]

That is so wrong

[@ryleighloughty3307]

@@cortneybunge359 As my comments are based on biblical principles, how am I wrong? Thank you.

[@mikelyons2831]

Unfortunately, he gave an answer slanted towards Calvinism. Calvinists conflate God's sovereignty with absolute determinism. God's foreknowledge of all events does not make Him the causal agent of all events (see Jeremiah 19:5 for one of many examples). Jesus draws all John 12:32, the Holy Spirit convicts the world John 16:8, Jesus said "For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them" (Luke 9:56 use the KJV). We were created by God with free moral agency to have genuine fellowship/personal relationship with Him. We can resist, quench & rebel against Him via our volitional agency (Jonah, Balaam disobeyed, even Moses struck the Rock & Matthew 23:37, John 5:40 & Acts 7:51)

[@VictorFelipe82]

When we start off with a wrong definition of "sovereignty", these blatant contradictions are brought about. Sovereignty does not equal determinism and fatalism. The Biblical understanding of God’s sovereignty recognizes that He is King of Kings, Lord of lords, the Highest Authority to which we may appeal, Giver of the law, Judge and Grantor of mercy. In this sense, truly God is indeed sovereign! “For the Lord, the Most High, is to be feared, a great king over all the earth.” (Psalm 47:2) “I am the Lord, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.” (Isaiah 43:15) “To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.” (1 Timothy 1:17)

[@frederickanderson1860]

We live on the earth we can't live in a state of unworldliness. It creates a un attachment from reality. Similar to Buddhism

[@Kemomaki]

Why have faith at all then? Faith is believing that God exists, that he rewards those who seek him and that we can hope in him because his promises will always be true. Faith does not require perfection, but consistent belief that God is in control and we are to live in accordance to His will. A life of faith is lived in believing the promises of God to be true and clinging to them when we are uncertain. Faith does not need to see to believe that God is in control. Ephesians 1:11, Ecclesiastes 3:1.

[@jazzmankey]

Your statement as well as your Scripture support are true as far as they go, but there are texts that give more detail about the extent of God’s control over His creation: [Dan 4:35 NKJV] 35 All the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And [among] the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"

[@frederickanderson1860]

@@jazzmankey look at Israel after their release from Egyptian slavery. They rebelled after Moses gone from their presence for 40 days and nights.

[@jazzmankey]

@@frederickanderson1860 It may be difficult for you to accept but even the most sinful of man’s actions are under God’s control. [Gen 45:5, 8 NKJV] 5 "But now, do not therefore be grieved or angry with yourselves because you sold me here; for God sent me before you to preserve life. ... 8 "So now [it was] not you [who] sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt. [Act 4:27-28 KJV] 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

[@ceyung]

1. What is free will? You are free to do what ever you will/want, but you can not control your will, you can not control the cause of your will. 2. Your free will and God's sovereignty can both exists because they are not in the same scope. Your free will is very limited to your self and your life, while beyond that there's God's sovereignty.

[@BT3701]

I often find myself wondering whether God being Sovereign is able to place a limitation upon His Sovereignity at His discretion. Concerning election one of the early Reformers, Girolamo Zanchi (1516 - 1590) stated that "The gospel was not, and is not a manifestation of which persons God wills to give eternal life, but of the sort of persons He wills to give eternal life, namely believers in Christ." Secondly, while I like Mohler, it seemed to me that Mohler might have been promoting a double predestination which when examined has many flaws in it.

[@jazzmankey]

Predestination by definition is double. If some are predestined to heaven, then the rest are predestined to hell by default. [Rom 9:22-23 NKJV] 22 [What] if God, wanting to show [His] wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

[@BT3701]

@@jazzmankey The problem with Calvinism can be found in their promotion of the idea of double predestination. The Calvinist doctrine of double predestination is clearly brought out in the following statements from John Calvin found in his Institutes. “By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined within himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and accordingly, as each has been created for one or the other of these ends, we say that he has been predestined to life or death.” (John Calvin in his Institutes) Then in his Institutes Calvin also says . . . “Those therefore whom God passes by he reprobates, and that for no other cause but because he is pleased to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines to his children” (John Calvin in his Institutes) So according to Calvin, God purposely created some people for eternal life and all the others to eternal damnation. And that God is “pleased to exclude” some from obtaining eternal life. Yet, the following Scriptures disagree with Calvin’s statements . . . Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live! Ezekiel 33:11 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel? Luke 13:34 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 1 Tim 2:3-4 God our Savior, desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Isaiah 45:22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other. So from those Scriptures we see that God doesn’t take pleasure in excluding anyone as Calvin falsely states, and the Scriptures don’t declare, as Calvin says that God created some for eternal life and all the others were purposely created for eternal damnation. But it is God’s desire that all men be saved, yet we also know that not all will be saved simply because not all men desire to be saved and will reject the saving message of Christ Jesus, but it’s not because God created them to purposely reject it and remain unsaved.

[@jazzmankey]

@@BT3701 I made a statement and then supported that statement with a Bible verse. Why are you bringing up Calvinism? Also, What is your understanding of Predestination/ Election in Scripture?

[@JohnSmith-ug5ci]

I think that it would have been better for him to just say "I DO NOT KNOW" how God works free will and predestination and yet does not violate our volition.

[@JesusIsLord777-lz7mg]

It's simple. Higher dimensions. The universe is 4 dimensions, but there are spatial dimensions outside of the physical universe. The elect are sanctified BY the Spirit.

[@JohnSmith-ug5ci]

@@JesusIsLord777-lz7mg you speak as a fool and have absolutely no way to back up what you claim.

[@leegrantham6971]

Yeah he had a very convoluted answer.

[@user-dz8rg3fg5h]

Then how is that real love if we are forced to desire God?

[@enriquekhoza8566]

Do you feel forced? Do you not desire to love, to be accepted and to be respected. Do you not desire the love of your close community. For carnal desires and spiritual desires are motivated by something. The desire to be loved. What is your something? What do you desire?

[@morriswilburn9858]

Over the years, I have studied the Bible regarding this matter. As best I can figure out, repentance is necessary for salvation. Scripture also teaches that repentance is a “gift” from God. But God does not grant that gift to everyone. Multiple verses in the NT contain the phrase “in the hope that God will grant them repentance” or “if God grants them repentance”. Reinforcing this, through the Gospels Christians are referred to as “the elect”, with the only logical implication being that some people are not elected. But I am very undecided as to how God makes the decision of whom to extend the gift of salvation.

[@surt_n43]

I don't know if this will help. But as the speaker has pointed out, God is sovereign. In addition to that the bible tells us that God does as he pleases and no one is in the position to question him. Personally, I find comfort and humble myself when I reflect on Deuteronomy 29:29, The secret things belong to God. All in all, there are so many things we cannot comprehend about God because our minds are finite.

[@morriswilburn9858]

@@surt_n43 I am extremely troubled by the idea that God, before the human race was created, decided who He would grant repentance to and who He would not. I “know in my head” that God is the potter and we are the clay, but getting that into my heart is difficult here. I am sure that many a Christian over the centuries has struggled with this. But when I get to be with God, all my struggles will be over.

[@Staystrong123]

The Father didn't call me to be a Baptist " pentecostal" or catholic he called me to be born again!

[@marshallevans9457]

Wonderful answer! Thank you!

[@williamswallers1709]

I just want to add, I don’t believe a person that claims to be Calvinist is completely wrong. They do have many teachings which do not alone in my opinion based on the Bible. That said, many of their pastors/teachers seem to get a lot correct in principles of teaching from the lives of those in he Old Testament as well New Testament…. I don’t understand how they can miss the mark on election if they can discern other things? God uses all things I know. So I don’t reject befriending them. I do however not subscribe to their doctrinal teaching on how we are saved. Bible is clear on this which they seem to overlook because of election. Faith comes by hearing, and that the word of God…but based on what they believe some we created to glory the rest to be dammed…not what the word says at all! In my humble opinion man is saved by being in Christ which God being God knew because He knows everything all who would one day be. Calvinist are just trying to make since of this simplest understanding in a very complexed way. If God did not know everything that would ever be, He would not be God! One other thing on my mind….not all who are Calvinist truly are. Only 5 pointers are true calvinistic…a4 pointer is called Amyraldism and 3 or less isn’t even considered to be Calvinist. And Jacob Arminius in one of his works stated, “ until we can research the scriptures more completely we can not teach this doctrine” when he was speaking to loss of salvation…but some how the other side of this argument went wild and we are where we are as the church today much divided! Sadly! Only truth, the Word of God, who so ever that will! Thanks for your encouragement!

[@APPARATVS]

I'm looking at Romans 9:22. "What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath-prepared for destruction".

[@caitlinleigh2557]

All that I got from this is that Mohler really likes ice cream.

[@jolookstothestars6358]

It's not sovereignty that we should be discussing in calvinism it's actually determinism. Determinism is the black hole of Calvinism it sucks everything into it and nothing can escape it. The God of the Bible rules with ultimate sovereignty not determinism. He works perfectly together with his given free will to man so that he has followers who truly love him not robots.

[@janodeklerk7156]

Exactly

[@Over-for-now]

If you ARE saved--- God chose you

[@jolookstothestars6358]

@@Over-for-now Yup I understand calvinism and if you are not saved God didn't choose you. So many people that God doesn't choose, its a mystery......only in calvinism.

[@jolookstothestars6358]

@@Over-for-now The really sad thing is that your not even sure if you are saved because you MUST endure to the end to be saved. But if you don't in calvinism God gave you a fake faith this whole time. You just thought He loved you but He really didn't because He didn't make you endure to the end. This is why calvinism isn't just wrong its harmful and changes the nature and character of God.

[@TheCrayonMan529]

​@@jolookstothestars6358God has his elect, who He has reveled Himself to. If you think you need to "work" towards your salvation, you are not saved, and that "god" that gave you fake faith may not be who you think he is.

[@YepImThatGuy66]

This is SO spot on!!

[@EternalDiet]

Thank you for giving your answer such a solid irrefutable foundation, followed by some guiding principles for interpretation. That is, 1) there are certain things of which we have no choice like to be born, what family to be born into etc but after that we have some choices but we also have no choice about death or no death. 2) God is sovereign and if he is, then there's just nothing he is not sovereign over. The conclusion which helps me not with my desire or idea but with being faithful to God's word is that, my interpretation of free will should be in light of God's sovereignty. We should humble ourselves and acknowledge that there are major aspects of life and living that we do not have control over. If we didn't choose to be born physically, then it shouldn't be difficult for us to understand that to be born again is beyond our free will as well. To God be the glory. Let love bind us as we grow in understanding.

[@QuinnEdwards1]

Christians have to try so hard to deal with contradictions and ugly doctrines. And most Christians will just say that god is mysterious and he is just. Romans says that he makes some for wrath and hardens Pharoah’s heart.

[@fakeyououtdotcom2409]

Is faith God's work or our choice? (Read Hebrews 12:2 before answering.) And, if it's God's work, are people punished for not having faith?

[@Ray-c2p]

I have difficulty with your defining the word Sovereignty. Webster's dictionary disagrees with you.. Sovereignty does not mean we have no choice about our Salvation. We are offered Salvation for our faith in Him

[@Over-for-now]

Thank God that He is absolutely sovereign. Why would we want less ???

[@SolaScriptura777.4me2]

A point I rarely hear regarding predestination and free will is this. The bible says clearly that we are/were dead in our trespasses and sins. If you are dead spiritually did/do you have the power to exercise free will to resurrect yourself from spiritual death to be born again? Jesus, Himself, didn't raise Himself from the dead. No, it is the Holy Spirit who lifts the veil from our eyes at a time of the Lord's choosing for His elect. That time never happens to those who are not part of the elect. It is all done by the Lord for His glory.

[@ReformedLife]

Good argument

[@williamswallers1709]

Faith comes by hearing the Bible plainly teaches.. who is Paul or any preaching to but the dead as you say. Hearing is the Good news or gospel. Calvinist believe dead men can do nothing which is not at all the teaching of scriptures….but many are deceived in this teaching… not all thank God!

[@SolaScriptura777.4me2]

You misunderstand….. you want to give man the credit as though he can resurrect himself and take that credit away from a sovereign God. Using your words the Bible plainly teaches “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will”, Ephesians 1:11. You think the man can not only resurrect himself but can also unblind himself. The Bible plainly teaches that the unbeliever “whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 2 Corinthians 4:4. Hearing the good news is the event that the Holy Spirit can use to remove the blinders on the man and resurrect him to be born again at the time and place of the Lord’s choosing. The man does not have any power. Only the Holy Spirit can unblind and resurrect. You want to give an unbelieve power over the Holy Spirit. You need to study more before hurling insults. @@williamswallers1709

[@williammarinelli2363]

The dead in trespasses and sins can walk (eph 2:2) and converse (eph 2:3). They can use God given faculty of reason (Isa 1:18). The dead prodigal came to himself (Luke 15). A corpse cannot sin nor reject the Lord. Was Paul, at one time, dead in sin? Rom 7:9.

[@SolaScriptura777.4me2]

If you are dead in trespasses and sins of course that means spiritually, not physically. So of course you live a worldly life in the physical body yet be dead spiritually as all unbelievers are. Interestingly the very first words are, "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins.." yet you want to say no, no, I made myself alive using my free will. Of course Paul and all people are dead spiritually when they sin. How many times does a person "hearing the Word" take to change their life? 1, 30, 300, 3000? You want to say "One of those 3000 times I exercised by free will but all the times before hearing the Word I chose not too. The one time you knew that things were different is the first time the Holy Spirit lifted the blinders off your eyes so you could suddenly see the truth (if you are one of His children).....

[@tomjedusor7966]

You can’t have free will if God is omniscient. Either He’s all knowing or not.

[@kallekallenen4346]

So there is no hope is there. God has made up his mind about people yet unborn, and...thats its. There is no hope. There is no hope. There is no hope.

[@Kemomaki]

If God made us all, and he knows everything about what's gonna happen in our lives, he could very easily change stuff to make us all serve him instead. Yet he doesn't. Why? Because apparently we have free will. However, he knows what is gonna happen, so basically he had it planned out from the very start. So in conclusion, he has a plan, he works together beleivers and non-beleivers into that plan, but then again, it's HIS plan that HE ordained. We are just playing according to that plan. In another argument, one could say that God has a purpose for us in the end, and he has many plans to get us there. The problem with this is if he is sovereign and all-knowing, how come he doesn't know which plan we take due to our freewill? Another problem is, the Bible mentions that God doesn't tempt us. But if God has predetermined eveything, he knows of our sins. Why doesn't he prevent it? So logically, is he is the one tempting us? Lastly, if God has predetermined eveything, why must we pray? To build a connection with God yes, but it's futile nonetheless as we're going according to his plan anyways so what's the point?

[@Kemomaki]

Why have faith at all then? Faith is believing that God exists, that he rewards those who seek him and that we can hope in him because his promises will always be true. Faith does not require perfection, but consistent belief that God is in control and we are to live in accordance to His will. A life of faith is lived in believing the promises of God to be true and clinging to them when we are uncertain. Faith does not need to see to believe that God is in control. Ephesians 1:11, Ecclesiastes 3:1.

[@imbecilicGenius-hn3jo]

As you said, we pray to build connection with God. We do everything we do to build connection with God. The key problem with man, is thier desire to bring God down to them in a way that elevates man and equalizes the two. In this way it is not entirely reminiscent of Satan who wanted God's place but is similar in that being submissive to God just seems wrong to many of us. Yet God's role for us is submission, it is obedience. Christians show thier love of God by doing what He has told them to do. When we strictly focus on God's love for us and none of the other aspects, we often forget the miles above us that He ranks and must be placed. He is to be glorified and no other. Only through Him are we anything but dust. This is why the world hates Him, He says to deny yourself and follow. Die to self and dubmit. There is love as we are not worthy of following Him and the great lengths He went through to allow us to do so, but there is so much more that has been thrown to the wayside by self glorifying man and many christians who only want God's love and not His justice.

[@icouldbewrongbutithink5279]

It’s not complicated… Gods design and desire was to choose every person to come to Him and we have the ability to accept his course for our lives or our own.Ephesians is referring to the formula. Gods not being surprised still does not mean he made me choose him in salvation. Even right now as believers we have the choice to do whatever we want. If that isn’t true then we have no worries about walking in the Spirit or fulfilling the lust of the flesh because if we have no choice then why worry about being obedient? This whole Calvinistic view of predestination is just a pride trap that intellectuals fall into. If we don’t have agency and the ability to choose God there could not be love.

[@wallywest001]

It's is because of God The Father's Sovereign Love and Grace, that he saves whom he chose before the foundation of the world. A god who gives his creatures "Free Will" and leaves it up to man to choose him is a god who doesn't care and does not have love for humans. The Father in Heaven is our Potter and we are the Clay and he does with us as he sees fit. If God made me a vessel of Wrath, Predestined to suffer his wrath and righteous anger and judgment and eternity in hell, then I'm perfectly fine with that because in the end God The Father gets the glory.

[@swu11]

@@wallywest001 Strangely, I just heard the counter argument and to share with you. If God predetermined every thought and every evil, i.e. if Calvinism is true, God actually rejected people before they rejected God. The video first half said that no one choose to be born, yet God commands everyone to repent and choose life, even God already determined everyone who will go to hell?

[@wallywest001]

@swu11 God is not Looking and down and picking based on our Humanly Good deeds or talent or athletic skill. He also isn't picking and choosing people based on how sincere they are, because No One Seeks For God. He doesn't look at someone and say your Going To hell because your to short or to tall, or to skinny, or to fat. He chose whom he Chose to save because he is Gracious. We like the rest of humanity were and are born spiritually dead and guilty sinners before God who is Holy, Righteous, and Just. God didn't have to choose to save anyone or kill his son before the world was laid, but he did because He works everything to His Purpose not ours.

[@icouldbewrongbutithink5279]

@@wallywest001 that doesn’t disprove anything I’ve said lol.

[@wallywest001]

@icouldbewrongbutithink5279 Let me ask you this: Do you Pray to God asking Him To Convict your Unsaved loved ones of their sin and to save them.? Because if you Pray that way and yet Believe God doesn't violate Humans Precious "Free Will" because if he did that would make God a Divine Rapist which is what your asking God to do to your Loved ones, friends, and co-workers who are not Saved, your asking God to violate their free will and rape them.

[@1995dodgetruck]

God draws all sinners by His Spirit and His Word. He offers salvation to whosoever will respond to His offer. So we do have free will. Dr. Mohler seems to make this so confusing. Following his thinking, God is the author of every sin, because God is sovereign and knows every sin that will be committed.

[@FreethinkingMinistries]

This is the longest non-answer I’ve ever seen. A better answer would have been: “Read a book called ‘Human Freedom, Divine Knowledge, and Mere Molinism.’”

[@bomac5306]

If someone is in Hell, is it because God didn’t do something or did the person not do something?

[@williamswallers1709]

God decrees what man must do. Going to Heaven or hell is based on what man chooses to do..

[@bomac5306]

Mohler's theology removes man's choice.@@williamswallers1709

[@reynaldoperez7285]

What verse says that god is absolutely Sovereign.

[@nicktorea4017]

everyone has agency and everyone has tendencies the tendencies determines what the agency will chose. the reality is no one is born with a tendency towards God

[@lloydfrancis9149]

Judas was born to betray Jesus so wrap your head around that! Exactly that doesn't mean Judas couldn't come to repentance but someone had to fulfill scripture. On the other hand Jesus said no man takes my life I freely give it up. I lay it down and in 3 days I will pick it up again. Who could understand the mind of God blessed be the name of the Lord for he alone is Sovereign. I have peace in knowing that I don't have to understand everything I'm just going to trust in Jesus like a Child. Good teaching by the way

[@forestgump4651]

The young lady asked a very humble and profound question that bothers a lot of Christians, and the minister wants to talk about pistachio ice cream, very frustrating to me.

[@bomac5306]

Mohler chooses to use/define the words he wishes to….. therefore he can control the answer with his bias.

[@Davidson-y4g]

how do you know you did not choose to be born?

[@RealBillyFanword]

Okay, but who's this 'Will', and why should we free him?

[@BiblicalMuse]

What a convoluted, confused answer. He should have just told her he doesn’t know enough about the subject to answer so he won’t waste her time.

[@inad2166]

Exactly, he doesn't know what he is talking about. It's self-contradicting doctrine.

[@nancys5558]

Try listening to Michael Heiser on this issue of pre- destination and salvation

[@Davidson-y4g]

before our spirit was in the womb God knew us, so therefore we have free will & everything is predestined...both

[@artiecisneros4691]

Amen brother.

[@casualgamer542]

If you define "Sovereignty" as theistic/divine (meticulous) determinism then agency is an illusion. You just perceive your choices as choices. While it may be said that they acted by their free choice, this is akin to saying it was the puppet's free decision to dance. And if you think I’m wrong, either God determined for me to be wrong (meaning you’re upset with His decree, and He decreed for you to be upset with His own will), or I’m right, and theistic determinism is false. We also don't save ourselves! Having faith in Christ doesn't merit us anything but is believing in the one that did everything on our behalf.

[@MrLeejunfan]

WE NEVER HAD FREEDOM IN THE FIRST PLACE WHEN IT CAME TO OUR DNA, OUR PLACE OF BIRTH,OUR PARENTS ETC. Excellent answer, no need for simplicity, we need accuracy!

[@speed_razor6603]

Yes we do have a free will, because we are able to deny God (2 Timothy 2:12). God acknowledges that someone can accept or deny the presentation of the gospel.(Ezekiel 3:17-22). One of the earliest testaments of free will Genesis 2:16-17. We do in fact have a completely free will. If God has to "enable" us or allow us to make a decision then it is not free will. Edit: Just because there are things out of our power, that doesn't mean that we don't have a free will. Two things can be true at once. Yes, there are thing out of our power, but also yes, we do have a free will. God will never force himself on you or force you to make a decision because then heaven is not a choice or reward it is an obligation which goes against what heaven is meant to be.

[@JimNunleyJimNunley]

What a ridiculous argument by Mohler- exactly how would someone have free will before they were created? We were created in order to have free will.

[@MrLeejunfan]

@@JimNunleyJimNunley Perfect answer by Mohler since the word " free " is now being defined by fallen people like you and me, who maybe saved reading back into the original pre-fall state with the Holy Spirit having a moral command given to not eat something in the initial state. The freedom was qualified with an instruction , never absolute. Perfect answer by Mohler.

[@MrLeejunfan]

@@speed_razor6603 Thank you for proving my point, completely free.. to accept or reject.. NOT ABSOLUTE. I guess every knee WILL BOW... WILL BOW... WILL BOW ... which is absolute.. even if you are free to reject Him now? See the point?

[@donhaddix3770]

God determined what choices we could make in certain areas. we have no choice but to eat and breath. but we choice to believe in God or not

[@Thebattler86]

"No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him"

[@donhaddix3770]

@Thebattler86 John 10:9 I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. Ephesians 2:18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. the father sent him to the world to be our doorway that is not Calvinism..

[@BelindaTN]

I have such a hard time wrapping my head around this. So does this mean that the elect, the predestined will definitely come to the Lord? That no one that the Lord has elected to come to Him, predestined from before birth…..none of these elect will choose NOT to follow the Lord?

[@frankkhoshaba7648]

Yes Belinda, read John 6:38-44 , Jesus says all that the father gives me will come to me , and I will lose none of them but raise them up on the last day.

[@glassmw9823]

This is why it is called *_faith_*

[@ByronDuane]

”For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” -Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭38‬-‭39‬. This two verses lead us to believe that either: A. Everyone is saved, whether they want to be or not. B. The elect have an inseparable bond with Christ. The rest of Romans makes it clear which is the truth.

[@glassmw9823]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 your problem is not with predestination or those who support it, but with God and His Word: ”even as he chose us in him *_before the foundation of the world_* that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he *_predestined_* us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been *_predestined_* according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,“ Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬-‭5‬, ‭11‬ ”And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he *_foreknew_* he also *_predestined_* to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he *_predestined_* he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.“ Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭28‬-‭30‬ ”this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.” Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭23‬ ”No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.“ John‬ ‭6‬:‭44‬ ”For many are called, but few are chosen.” Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭14‬ ”He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you“ 1 Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭20‬ ”But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.“ John‬ ‭1‬:‭12‬-‭13‬

[@williamswallers1709]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 predestination in right understanding I believe is good. Meaning that God predetermined who will. This being all who chose because of free will in hearing the gospel to come to Christ. God pre determined that all who are in Christ will be saved… any other twisting of this would be heresy.

[@jakeyboy8402]

What is mankind’s spiritual condition? In Ephesians we are told that we are “dead” in our trespasses and sin! The Greek word for dead is corpse! Question: How can a dead man raise himself from the dead by his own “Freewill”? What part did Lazarus play in his being raised from the dead?!

[@daveconner9520]

Rev 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and OPEN the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. BOOM baby

[@psk116]

There are only 13 verses in Revelation 8. If you are referring to Revelation 3:20, He is talking to the church at Laodicea, He is not knocking on the door of a sinner's heart. That is not what that verse means.

[@daveconner9520]

@@psk116 Negative. In verse 16; the church will be cast out because they are luke warm. In verse 19 it tells them to repent. Repentance is only with submission to their sinful ways which as stated in 16, would cause them to be "speued out" from God. Verse 20, tell them that Jesus is waiting for them to repent, and wanting them to let Jesus in. Then in verse 21 John explains the reward for repentance. AND finally as a conclusion to what the church needs it reads "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." The key words here are "Let him hear what the spirit.." If someone doesn't want to hear the spirit, thats a choice. Thats not a decision made by God, but made by men. Now the question for you is, why wouldn't these guidelines fall into todays standards? What about that specific church does NOT apply to us today? It doesn't. People fall into this wealthy trap all the time. It does apply to us today.

[@Phony-baloney8]

I felt so confused after listening to this video. Even more so than before I watched it. The doctrine of election and presentation is super confusing to me. Here’s where I’m at with it: (1) how deep does human depravity go? That is, do we have the ability on our own to respond positively to the Gospel? Is there a part of us, namely our will, that is able to choose the things of God? And (2) the logic of God choosing those who will be saved (the “elect”) before anything ever got going just doesn’t seem to make sense. Holding people accountable for their actions if, in the final analysis, God is the one who decides our ultimate fate, doesn’t make much sense, at least to me. I’m not saying I don’t believe in the doctrine of election, but I’m also saying that I do believe in it. Honestly, I go back-and-forth between being a Calvinist and nothing Calvinist almost every day. I would love to hear what anyone else has to say. If we are the ones who, in the final analysis, choose to accept Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and savior, is that choice something that I do myself? And if so, is there a part of salvation that requires me to make a positive choice? in other words, does salvation require God doing something (dying on the cross for our sins) + believing that this happened and that Jesus christ is the truth son of God, who takes away my sins? I 100% believe this. But why do I believe it? Bottom line: I don’t know. Why do I believe it and my neighbor doesn’t? Again, I don’t know. Is it because God unilaterally regenerated my soul, which led to faith, which leads to salvation? Sometimes I think yes, other times I think no. Anyone who can help, please do so. Thanks. Oh, and one more thing. I think that the passage Romans that talks about God choosing Jacob over Esau, I think that Text is referring mostly to Israel and her place as the chosen people of God. Of course, I could be wrong on this too. If so, help me.

[@jazzmankey]

1. Do we have the ability on our own to respond positively to the gospel? -No, we do not: [1Co 2:14 NKJV] 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. -[Jhn 6:44, 65 NKJV] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. ... 65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." -[Mat 19:25-26 NIV] 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" 26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

[@jazzmankey]

2. How can we be held accountable for our actions if God has ultimately decided our fate? [Rom 9:18-24 NIV] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?" 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory-- 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? -[Dan 4:35 NIV] 35 All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: "What have you done?"

[@jazzmankey]

3. Is the choice to accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior something that I do myself? No, we choose Him because he chose us. -[Jhn --15:16-- NIV] 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit-- [Jhn 10:25-26 NKJV] 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. -[Act 13:48 NIV] 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

[@jazzmankey]

That’s God regenerate my soul, so that I will have faith and be saved? Yes. [Act 18:27 NKJV] 27 …he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; [Eph 2:4-5, 8-9 NKJV] 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), ... 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

[@jazzmankey]

4. Is Romans 9 just speaking about Israel when it talks about Jacob and Esau? Paul tells us who he is talking about in verse 24: [Rom 9:22-24 NKJV] 22 [What] if God, wanting to show [His] wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

[@Kikuye]

A simpler answer would be the video under the title Reformed Basics God's Sovereignty which goes over compatibalism...

[@williamswallers1709]

We are as well told God desires all to come…Calvinism is a man’s teaching as well which there is much that is over looked on this subject of Election as it doesn’t fit or puts holes in this theological teaching. Trust the Word of God alone as it is the only truth which as this comment began says God desires all men to come to Him 1 Tim 2:4; John 3:16-17… but if one does not believe these most basic scriptures teaching then they must tear out these verses as the are right in the face of those that are twisted to say something they do not. God loves all His creation and He showed this by His sacrifice on Calvary! Unfortunately, the free will which was given another word in changing its meaning was a compromise in attempts to make the argument believable. I know this debate started a long time ago and continues today….just teach Gods love and desire for all men and let God be God!

[@jazzmankey]

I tell you what, If we have to tear out the verses that you mentioned, you would have to tear out Rom 8 & 9, John 6, 10, Acts 13:48, Eph 1, 2 , 1Cor 1, the words predestined, election, chosen, foreknown, "Esau I have hated" , "He has blinded their eyes", Ordained, "Vessels of Mercy, vessels of wrath, etc. These verses are also in the Bible.

[@MB777-qr2xv]

@@jazzmankey My contention is with people like John Piper who says, every single thing that happens on planet earth is caused by God. He gives the example of tiny dust particles in a beam of light. Piper says God controls the very movement of each tiny particle. Or James White who has said, "If a man brutally rapes a young girl, God caused it. If not, then it was a meaningless, random act." Jeff Durbin says, God is not partially sovereign, He is not half-sovereign, He is sovereignly sovereign. Meaning, like Piper and White, every single thing that happens is caused by God. If you follow that logic through, you have God saying to Adam and Eve, "Do not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil..." and then He causes them to do that very thing. You have God saying, "Have no other gods before me." AND then He makes countless billions worship Allah, Buddha, or one of the three hundred million Hindu gods. Again, if you carry this through, you have God, who is LOVE, who is Holy and Righteous, causing, murder, rape, child molestation, drugs, alcohol, prostitution, human trafficking, not to mention, the belief in atheism. Allowing something to happen, UNTIL it is dealt with on Judgment Day, is NOT the same as causing it to happen.

[@jimfarnell5813]

Election does not equate to salvation, otherwise, there are hundreds of thousands of Baal worshippers in Heaven… (Deu. 7:6; Isaiah 45:4)… Foreknowledge does not necessitate predestination (1 Samuel 23:1-13)

[@Saratogan]

Paul (and only Paul) uses the word προορίζω (predestinate) four times - twice in Romans 8 and twice in Ephesians 1. In all four of those instances the subject of his discourse is believers in Jesus Christ. The point is that a better term to get at the core issue is elect, called or chosen. Pedantically, God predestines those whom He has elected, chosen and called. As to the will, it is a second order thing. That is our wills are governed by our nature. It is not possible to will anything that our nature does not allow. Our nature sets the boundary of willing. We freely will all things that are consistent with our nature. Paul further writes "The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit because they are foolishness to him and neither can he know them." So nature binds doubly. The natural man does not want to know spiritual things (the will) and he cannot know spiritual things (nature lacks the capacity). Unless and until God quickens (makes alive) and thereby gives us a new nature our wills are bound. Luther wrote a book on this subject. It is probably his best work. It is called The Bondage of the Will.

[@dannypierce3878]

God predestined the church, that there would be a body of Christ(the church). Our free will is to be a part of that body or not to be. He knows the outcome without influencing it.

[@docbrown7513]

I figured today we would be talking about how AZ's governor, and the pro-life republican legislature passed legislation to repeal its abortion ban. “Today, I am glad to see the Senate answered my call and voted to repeal Arizona's 1864 total abortion ban, and I look forward to quickly signing the repeal into law."

[@michaelkeene5530]

John 6:44 puts it as simple as it can be put. Jesus says no man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him:and I will raise him up at the last day.

[@SteveDyer-uu6ff]

And John 12:32 says “And I, when I am lifted up[a] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

[@fcedulaiii]

He repeatedlysaidthat God knows everythig that he knows r has a foreknowledge of the future, yet, in Genesis, after He killed almost all living crreature in the world by flood, he did regret it, as if he never expected this events to happen. How can you regret something you know would eventually happen anyway?

[@pepperstinson3141]

The Bible has 1,400 “if”, as well as many other examples that we have the choice of whether we live in obedience to the will of God or not. We make the decision to confess our sins and serve the Lord. Blessings

[@Lurkingdolphin]

Since when does sovereignty mean determinism . Sovereignty just means right to rule and the power to rule /do whatever you want . God has predestined the way of salvation and the instrument of salvation . Those who believe are saved . God doesn’t desire the death of anyone . Would he predestined it ? Sin doesn’t even come into the mind of God nor does he decree it that comes from the world . Why does Paul say the unbeliever isn’t saved . Because he refused to love the truth .

[@johnschuh8616]

I subscribe to the view that it was Christianity that introduced to the world the very notion of free will. From the Stoics and the Platonists as of course from the Scripture our theologians took many their formulations to describe reality. Not their fatalism. not their notion that when we all die we descend to a dark place near to return. This being the fate of the Good and Great as well as the Evil and the Mean. Christ preached to the Dead and they learned theswn as we shall all learn who will rise with Him in glory.

[@muwulyamoses3193]

If I will because of the dear of eternal death, is threatening the agency in willing? Often preachers escort alter calls with message of eternal death and people respond because of this not coming to Christ to share love with God

[@bryanadriel6036]

Amen - Predestination overpowers 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏His Kingdom Come 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@emmanuel5566]

I like Ps John MacArthur's simple response - its a mystery our finite minds cannot comprehend on this side of the eternity He adds more questions: * Who wrote the Bible? Holy Spirit or human author's mind? * Who lives our Christian life? Holy Spirit or us? When we cannot answer such simple questions, we can concede that the question of predestination vs freewill is well beyond our capability! But it springs more praise to a God who made an universe so fearfully and wonderfully. Soli Deo Gloria!

[@truthseeker5698]

Mystery claims by calvinist reformer are simply Cognitive dissonance , incoherence.

[@emmanuel5566]

@@truthseeker5698 ‭‭ Romans‬ ‭9:20‬ ‭LSB‬‬ [20] On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? Will the thing molded say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this”? ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭29:29‬ ‭LSB‬‬ [29] “The secret things belong to Yahweh our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may do all the words of this law. Well, I don't just believe because reformed "men" say it. Romans verse I cited above is in the very context of predestination. I believe it's a mystery because the Bible says it so

[@truthseeker5698]

@@emmanuel5566 Cult interpretation conclusion. Simply another gospel. Synthetic theology. Nothing like Jesus The Messiah in application. Sola de your choice.

[@emmanuel5566]

@@truthseeker5698 well, I'm genuinely asking. How would you answer those 2 questions in my original comment? I'd like to hear your response to the verses I cited too. I'm honestly open to your view Basically, before terming a cult, you gotta provide a better alternative too is what I'm saying. Otherwise, it just remains to be your personal opinion/feeling

[@truthseeker5698]

The answer to the two questions is “ both .” Relationship. God desires relationship. There is no stewardship in calvinism reformed theology. Proof texting with calvinists reformers is like a biblical decathlon when a simple and light look into the life of Jesus The Messiah would suffice. There are an abundance of resources available to inform the reformed calvinist of their synthetic theology if they’re willing and open. Really a very basic childlike dynamic with an easy and light yoke. Hopefully this resonants. God is love, Jesus The Messiah lived out Gods love. This is the light God desires for all to know.

[@tomm6167]

People have *some* free will: "What father holding his little girl’s hand crossing a busy street would ever let it go? The more she pulls, the tighter he squeezes. There is no way she is going anywhere! Is God any different? The argument that a person can choose hell by rejecting God as a result of 'free' will is in effect saying a little girl has more strength than her dad. God has given man a 'measure' of free will, but certainly not to the degree that He would allow him or her to damn themselves forever in torment. Is God less of a parent than we are (Matt. 7:11)? We extend increasing freedom to our children as they mature. Too much too soon is disastrous. He knows just how much freedom we need for our development. God, as Creator, is owner of all things (Psalm 2:8; Ezek. 18:4; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2), and that includes you and I. He has never relinquished that title. Only He has absolute 'free' will over His property. Should we be forever lost, He would be the loser and God is not a loser! Many say hell is locked on the inside. But how? Christ has the keys! (Rev. 1:18). Many believe God’s hands are tied; as much as He would like to keep us, He is unable. But, is our power to destroy His property really greater than His power to preserve or restore it? How 'free' and powerful are we? What role did we play in controlling our life experiences that have made us what we are? Will we deliberately choose what sufferings we will undergo in the future that inevitably will affect what we become? What intricacies of our reasoning processes, which determine our decisions, do we fully control?" -- Gerry Beauchemin, _Hope Beyond Hell,_ 2010, pg. 38

[@cortneybunge359]

If that is true please explain. Judas and scripture about the 12 seats then he chose to betray him?

[@DicelaBiblia]

If God makes me believe, is that a true belief? If God makes me love Him, is that true love? I find that Mohler's definition of the sovereignty of God negates any agency that we might have and so there really is no agency. If He choses to save me He must direct my agency and so it isn't really agency. I find these calvinistic arguments to be a mixed up bag of philosophies that even the calvinist can not understand. The Calvinist's definition of sovereignty is not really a very good definition. Independent countries are declared sovereign states. That doesn't mean that they know everything that the country is going to do. It only means that they rule themselves and are not subject to other countries. God governs himself and is not subject to any other being or thing. He is only subject to Himself. That is really what being a sovereign God means. It has nothing to do with willing human beings into heaven or into hell.

[@trinisteelbender]

Man is spiritually dead and as a result of his dead state he cannot make a spiritual decision without outside interference, in this case God

[@datruth3254]

Be very careful Calvinist, you are now shifting responsibility and sin away from Man and onto God. Example, God predetermined the sinner to be a sinner, and now sends him to hell, for God's predeterminism, because God decided not to regenerate certain man. Eventually it now leads to, we no longer need Jesus, because God determined who he calls when he calls, so who God chooses will always chose God. Calvinist is everything that the Bible is not. Before Calvin and Augustine, all the early church fathers were freewill.

[@MB777-qr2xv]

God calls us to choose. Joshua 24:15 says, "CHOOSE you this day whom you will serve." Deuteronomy 30:19 says, "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now CHOOSE life, so that you and your children may live." Revelation 22:17 says, "...whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." It does NOT say, "The ones I (God) choose will take of the water of life freely." John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." It does NOT say the ones I (God) choose shall not perish. What does the Calvinist say sin is? The Biblical definition of sin is missing the mark. Not doing God's will. How can there be sin if God is CAUSING everything to happen? What is sin if EVERYTHING that happens, ONLY happens because GOD CAUSES it to happen? Also, how can there be obedience if EVERTHING ONLY happens because, AGAIN, God causes all to happen, even "obedience" to God's commands? What about verses like Joshua 24:15, "... CHOOSE for yourselves this day whom you will serve..." AND, You'll NEVER convince me that, as hyper Calvinists believe, God causes EVERYTHING to happen, even murder, rape, child molestation, LGBTQ lifestyles, anti-Christ religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, atheism etc.

[@janodeklerk7156]

The Bible is clear that God wants everyone to be saved (2 Pet 3:9 and 1 Tim 2:3-4). His choice is for everyone to be saved. He draws all men to Himself but we have the freewill to accept or reject it. God is not in control of people's choices or everything that happens. We are saved by grace (God providing salvation) through faith (us choosing to place our trust in Him) (Eph 2:8-9). Sovereignty also does not imply total control of everything that happens. Check the definition.

[@CBALLEN]

Neither of those verses are saying what you think they are saying. 2 Peter 3:9 is speaking exclusively about the BELOVED,the Elect and 1 Tim 2:4 is Paul telling Tim to pray for those who are persecuting them,king,rulers and those in authority, because God wants all or all kinds of men to be saved.You are forgetting that God chose who He would save and who He chose to leave in their sin before Creation. God is not patiently waiting on those He created for destruction to believe.Prov 16:4 explains.

[@CBALLEN]

Those verses aren't saying what you think they are saying. Prov 16:4 explains.

[@janodeklerk7156]

Eish bro. Do you know what you are saying?😂 Pay attention to the following words in those 2 passages: 2 Pet 3:9 "... The Lord is patient, not wishing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." Where is your beloved in there? 1 Tim 2:3-4 "God desires ALL men to be saved. Matt 23:27 Jesus saying to Jerusalem, "... how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chick under her wings, but YOU ARE NOT WILLING." It does not say God didn't choose them. They were not willing. We have a freewill bro! When you read the Bible, make sure you believe what you read and guard against reading what you believe. SELAH. Calvinism is unbiblical and utter nonsense!

[@robtompkins4587]

This is the doublespeak that most Calvinists use. "You have agency" "God is absolutely sovereign and already made the choice before the foundation of the world". So... you don't have actual agency. Explain and re-explain all you want, there is no getting around it. Don't bother to say "God is not surprised by your choice" - obviously, because God made the choice before you supposedly did. The Calvinist definition of "sovereignty" means total determination, which is not what sovereignty even means...

[@ReformedLife]

If you actually read what Calvinists believe, you wouldn't be misunderstanding their position on sovereignty of God.

[@robtompkins4587]

@@ReformedLife Pretty read up on it over decades, understand it well, though it should be mentioned that many Calvinists present their soteriology in different ways. But my comment fairly well accounts for it. Would you like to make a specific correction?

[@AppalachiaTN]

@@ReformedLifeHe explained Calvinism well. Which part did you disagree with?

[@williammarinelli2363]

@@AppalachiaTN The entire 5 points encapsulated by TULIP as well as a caricature of deity who doesn't know how to form a sentence with the words "all", "every", or "world."

[@rdbordeman]

Nope

[@makeitcount179]

God is The Force for Good in your life or around your life. Who's complaining?

[@TheRomans9Guy]

5:35 Spurgeon was wrong. All people are chosen, not some. That’s a blasphemous lie.

[@garygraves4252]

Arminian: A creation that is at once free AND determined? Impossible, that violates the rules of Western logic. Tertullian: “What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?” God: “…thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself.”

[@MelbaCox-x3t]

Men love darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil And, those who do evil hates the light neither cometh to the light.....See John 3:19,20📖

[@Bobbychildree]

Both!

[@dinoxzone5627]

Free will is a gods gift to human kind and through it he can judge us whether we obey him or satan ? otherwise if we dont have free will and acted like robot then there is no meaning of life. And pre- destination is also there but that's not one rather many choice ,A B C and all have consequences you cannot change

[@kediasjackson101]

Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live. In Old Testament times the Jews on numerous occasions chose other gods. Even when faced with a choice between Jesus and Barabbas, they exercised their right preferring a sinner to a Saviour. At what point in scripture did God take away the right to choose?

[@terryolay4613]

This doesn't answer the question. I think this is a question that transcends human comprehension. Because God is absolutely sovereign, there's not a single thing that we do that's not in absolute accord with God's will, yet we're rewarded or punished for our decisions/actions by a God who is abdolutely just and good. In fact, nothing is good apart from God.

[@rockygregory731]

That was a long and complicated answer. I don’t know if if helped anyone at all

[@mokeboi3328]

I felt his answer to be extremely helpful and clarifying

[@matt8637]

I agree. A lot of words but little clarity. Maybe a little toward the end, but there was too much word salad before you get the meat.

[@bradleymarvel]

Yeah, I mean why can't we get a simplistic answer to one of the most profound theological truths found in the entirety of God's Word that all of His greatest and brightest theologians in the history of humanity have struggled with? Shouldn't be so difficult to understand the mind of God....

[@emmanuel5566]

Well, the question is so difficult. If not for anything, it planted a seed in my mind to go read more about agency vs freewill Sometimes showing the way is as good as picking me up and dropping me to the destination

[@robertreynolds7123]

I personally thought it a great answer. I believe you have to clear up and define your terms before you jump into something like that,

[@stevenwistort9903]

God causes the elect of him to chose him. Only by a new heart and a new Spirit put within his elect is this possible. Ezekial 36:26-27.

[@AppalachiaTN]

The passage you referenced relates to God’s chosen people, Israel.

[@Matrixqc777]

(Revealed to us 115 years ago): *“We can tell Him nothing which He does not know, but His intelligent, infinite intuition comprehends all things past, present or future. The foreknowledge of God is also absolute. How the foreknowledge of God is to be reconciled with man’s free agency and moral accountability is indeed to men in the world a dark problem, but in the Scriptures both are clearly taught, and faith accepts what reason cannot reconcile. Some of the churches on earth have denied man’s moral freedom. Others maintain that God in the exercise of His omniscience, like His omnipotence, abstains from knowing what His creatures will do under certain given circumstances, but the foreknowledge of God itself, UNREVEALED to men, does not impose nor even hint to men any course of conduct whatever; IT IN NO DEGREE AFFECTS HIS LIBERTY OF ACTION. Man neither sins nor follows holiness, as the result of God’s foreknowledge; so notwithstanding God’s foreknowledge, He has made man in His image, a free moral being.”*

[@jordanellingson5631]

Only the toughest question of all time.

[@ironleatherwood]

It's not that tough. Calvinisim has twisted scripture and the love of God. God bless you

[@jordanellingson5631]

@@ironleatherwood the tough part is why God doesn't call everyone.

[@AppalachiaTN]

⁠@@jordanellingson5631He does call everyone, but not everyone chooses to accept His offer of Salvation. Romans 1:20 expresses people have seen His power and nature and so are without excuse.

[@davidcrutchfield138]

@@jordanellingson5631”Many are called but few are chosen.” People reject Christ because of pride. There are no proud people in the kingdom of heaven. To come to the cross is to bow the knee to the Lord and confess

[@jordanellingson5631]

@@davidcrutchfield138 many are called means not all are called. That's a real confusing starting point. Pride is thinking you have the answer. Sorry to be contentious. This is a big discussion and the comment section isn't the place. Sending peace and blessings.

[@JesusIsAboveAllOtherNames]

Romans 8:28-29 (NKJV) And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 9:13-24 (NKJV) As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

[@datruth3254]

Election does not equal Salvation. 2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

[@steveroth8441]

I'm more confused than I ever have been. What a word salad. So is he a Calvinist ??

[@osks]

Either God is sovereign or man is sovereign - the two are mutually exclusive… If God is sovereign (which He is), then He is absolutely sovereign over absolutely all things, INCLUDING the will of man! And if man is ‘sovereign’, then we are all in serious trouble - which man - you/me/Biden/Putin/the village idiot…? So, while man does possess a WILL, his will is just not free (in the Libertarian sense) - man’s will is in bondage, either to the god of this age, or to the Spirit of righteousness (Rom 8:3-5)… no ‘free will’ in that! From a purely epistemological perspective, we must then not be surprised to find that we find ourselves in a causal universe where nothing - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - happens causa sui - spontaneously… A simple test… try and do something (anything) without any reason - ain’t possible! Nothing that happens is ever uncaused and if it’s in any way caused (which it always is), then it’s not free…

[@georgedonner2115]

Free will or agency is not that I get to deal the cards or know what other people are holding, but that I get to play the hand i have. Your initial examples outlining choices beyond our power or knowledge, if likewise applied to God, would indicate He also lacks free will as He cannot choose to be sovereign.

[@jimfarnell5813]

God, sovereignly decreed, that man should exercise free moral choice and man, from the beginning, has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, in as much has the eternal decree decided not which choice man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in his absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay his hand or say, ‘What doest thou?’ Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A less than sovereign God could not bestow moral freedom could upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so. AW Tozer, Knowledge of the Holy May I humbly suggest the greatest moral decision any person can make is to choose to receive and trust in the gracious gift of salvation in Christ Jesus? I agree that salvation is the sovereign act of God alone but I contend, along with Tozer, that we each have the freedom to willfully choose or reject the gift…

[@arthouston7361]

It's not a mystery, because God is omniscient and is outside of time. He already knows all of the free will choices that we made or will make in our lives, so we still have free will....it's just that He already knows the outcome before we do, and that's how He knows who will be saved.

[@greggpurviance7252]

Perhaps not outside time. Jesus, God the Son entered time. There was sequence. A time before and after incarnation, God becoming human.

[@arthouston7361]

@@greggpurviance7252 While God the Son became human, the Father and the Holy Spirit did not. At any time, God the Son can be outside of time, because He is in his glorified body. The triune God certainly was outside of time before He created the universe of matter because He is omniscient, and He knew everything that was going to happen...ever... in an instant. This means that God knows whatever free will choices we ever make.... even if we have not yet made them. Only we.... His creation.... are fastened into a timeline at this point in our existence.

[@greggpurviance7252]

@@arthouston7361 I would be careful about splitting the Father & HS from the Son. Also at Pentecost the Holy Spirit indwelling humans began, a before & after, the essence of time. Are we outside of sequence in our glorified bodies? (we will be like Him). The theology & philosophy of time & God's relation to it is a little more nuanced than "outside of time"

[@arthouston7361]

@@greggpurviance7252 I think it's a very common thing to try and fit the nature of God into our own human experience. The Bible explains these things to us using ways that we can understand, but God is not limited by our meager human perceptions. He is always able to perceive everything.... all of the time.

[@greggpurviance7252]

@@arthouston7361 you are correct, which is why "outside of time" is insufficient

[@Jazzfestn]

The Bible, from Genesis through Revelation, has been WRITTEN. We KNOW how it ENDS. NOTHING anyone does can change this. God had PLANNED everything from cover to cover. NOTHING is going to take Him by surprise. He is NOT going to switch to a "Plan B" in the event someone is uncooperative. God RESTED on the 7th day because "the works were FIN8SHED from the creation". Notice, that the VISIONS of God in Isaiah, Psalms, etc., show Him SEATED on His thrown...NEVER WORKING on a project or "situations" which require His attention. "It is FINISHED"! Thus His people can also REST in His FINISHED work as PROMISED us.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Dear Albert, If you create an all powerful god that assigns free will to his creations than that free will is always subject to the will of the creator. In order to see the contradictions in the bible you must be able to think outside the bible.

[@Vinnymanvinny1]

Agreed

[@keenancasteel6648]

If it’s subject to something, it’s not free.

[@frederickanderson1860]

If we know all things no need for faith. Maybe that was the sin in genesis the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

[@2wheelz3504]

Pure globbledespeek! We have free will and God makes whom he has chosen to choose him. Don't any of you have a problem with that?

[@garvinwilliams4160]

This guy is SO dangerous……he’s like a politician that talks circles around the actual answer. Very confusing for most folks. I get the feeling Jesus was a bit more simple with his answers.

[@TheRomans9Guy]

6:16 “If I didn’t do it I can’t lose it.” One day you’ll stand before the throne and God will ask you did you do it? (Mean bow your knee in your own free will and choose to worship me and not you?) And if you didn’t do it, you’ll lose eternal life. So, you’re wrong Dr. Mohler.

[@JimNunleyJimNunley]

The gospel is simple, it takes a theologian to make it complicated

[@nori_tutor]

If there is something that the bible is not is simple. If it was, Christians wouldn't be doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to reconcile entire books, like Genesis.

[@grace_alone_toward_repentance]

John 6:63-67 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Some will go away, because Jesus prophesied and knew this before time. But ALL that the Father has given to Him will go back to Him if He has predestined them. Romans 9:17-26 (NKJV) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." Those who were drawn to the Father and know beyond a doubt that it was ALL God's love, power and grace overwhelming them will never doubt that it was ALL his AMAZING, unfavorable love choosing them! ❤️❤️🙌🙌✝️✝️ Never in a billion years would I say I chose God. Nope. God chose me, and INSTANTLY changed me in one moment!

[@Christo-doulou]

This is a distortion of what the Bible teaches! ALL humans are commanded by God to repent of their sins. This is only possible if God has already given us the ability to choose to repent, or not to repent! Sinners will end up in eternal punishment because the CHOSE not to believe in the Gospel, as Jesus tells the Jews who wanted to murder Him in John 5:39-40. They were UNWILLING to go to Jesus for salvation, which means that they CHOSE not to!

[@nori_tutor]

I feel kinda sad for her. As an Atheist, I will give the definitive answer: In the bible, there's both. And there is no honest way for you to reconcile the two, biblically speaking. Keep in mind that the bible was written by different people, in different times, who thought differently, and of course their ideas contradicted sometimes. This is a doctrinal conteadiction, simple like that. This pastors mentions the passages where the bible teaches about predestination. But ignores some passages where the authors very clearly teach that the listener can choose to repent, or not to repent, and they're responsible for it.