Last of Us 2: Desecrating a Grave One Last Time

[@TheAlmightyLoli]

Music Used: Nobody- Johnny Cash Solitary Man- Johnny Cash The End- The Doors Hello Darkness- Pathologic 2 OST Helicopters- Beasts of No Nation OST Better Look Me in the Eyes- Beasts of No Nation OST Young Men Dead- Black Angels Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out- Scrapper Blackwell Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner- Warren Zeavon House of the Rising Sun- The Animals Voice of No Return- Nier Automata Waiting Around to Die- Townes Van Zandt Space Junk- Wang Chung You and Me- Last of Us OST Smugglers- Last of Us OST The Quarantine Zone (20 Years Later)- Last of Us OST Movies Used: The Raid 2 Apocalypse Now Thunder Road

[@porselanaportao7046]

Somethings never get old, like beating on this game.

[@residentkrockhead]

Solitary Man’s one of my favorites. Love Cash

[@theduxabides9274]

"The eternal Finger Muncher, still wanders through the night. Now it's ten years later, and she still keeps up the fight. In Jackson, in Washington, San Diego and Berkeley! Our boy Joel, was beaten cold, by the Finger Muncher's club and bought iiiiiiit."

[@marshalmarshall2109]

Howdy

[@QuestionableLogic_]

what about the timestamps?

[@chozer1]

“Joel Miller” “What no Joel Johnsen” “Oh my bad sorry “ *roll credits*

[@scottypittman1]

Just imagine, I wanna see this in a story now lol

[@DTylerFultzVA]

"No. My name is Rusty Shackleford!"

[@gtbest5417]

"now that's clear, Why the FUCK you just shot me in the leg point blank with a shotgun you psyco?!! Do you think I'm the only one person in the world named Joel?! HUH?! Arhhhhr my Fucking legs!!!!!!!"

[@theotherjared9824]

There actually is an animation on KZbin that does this. I don't remember who made it, but the ending is exquisite. Edit: looked it up, it's Squizzy

[@davigondim8850]

Dabby: Joel Miller ? Joel: Wait I´m not Joel Miller, my name is Joel... uhn..ahh... (Looks outside for ideas,sees a mill) Joel: ...Miller gets killed

[@nilsolofleif8886]

"every death after the first game is joels fault” - justWrite

[@ebak8283]

Fr, they try to argue that there's nuance while failing to realize that the game itself ignores nuance.

[@kagekun1198]

Yeah. I thought JustWrite had more sense than that

[@nilsolofleif8886]

@@kagekun1198 I think that perhaps JustWrite is an enemy of making sense. At least after I watched his debate with Mauler and Wolf

[@bernardotorres5274]

@@nilsolofleif8886 There were some epic burns in that one... Man, I miss wolf.

[@nilsolofleif8886]

@@bernardotorres5274 same here man..

[@rikumajumder1558]

When one of the Main Writers leave during the sequel because of 'differences', stop being excited over the product. It's Fated to be sh*t.

[@cozm3433]

Bruce straley. Thats why this was a red flag in the beggining

[@mateoreyes6921]

And Anita sarkeesian joined, so.........i think we now who is that person

[@cozm3433]

@@mateoreyes6921 yeap. there´s always has been red flags since neil simp for her in a ceremony, there´s a video about that if remember correctly

[@MrAsh1100]

@@cozm3433 Was it a GDC video? I think it was.

[@mateoreyes6921]

@Code Turtle Really? I.......dammit, fuck EA

[@pjlengacher7607]

"looks like bigot sandwiches are back on the menu boys"

[@truecaliber1995]

What a terrible scene that was. Seriously, every time I watch Ellie turn down a perfectly good steak sandwich, something not considered a *commodity in this post-apocalyptic world,* my frustration reaches new heights. This old man is genuinely trying to make up for his mistake and makes you something scavengers out there would literally *kill* for. Yet you just reject the gesture like it means nothing!? WTF.

[@lmahu6627]

@@truecaliber1995 It was like it was written as a "YAAAASSSS SLAY QUEEN" moment for the Twitter folk to fawn at.

[@austin9568AuraMasterDX]

@@lmahu6627 You could almost hear the mic drop when she delivers that "zinger"

[@forastero54321]

@@truecaliber1995 to be fair, we don’t know if the bigot guy was genuinely sorry or just being threatened by the landlords. Either way, I also wouldn’t chance that sandwich.

[@thesquirtof8759]

@@forastero54321 it's not just the sandwich that's the problem. it's the whole scene. The presence of the bigot old man himself. It just feels shoehorned and made for the sake of padding the runtime AND adding unnecessary drama. A guy like him wouldn't even survive the initial 50 hours of the outbreak. Forget chancing on the sandwich, it shouldn't even exist.

[@GK-mr9ko]

“I want me a child soldier!” -Almightyloli, 2021

[@dean_l33]

Big boss would approve

[@flamestoyershadowkill]

like most gundam protags

[@TheDragons345]

@@flamestoyershadowkill And Gundam has its own realistic tone minus the mecha

[@applesandgrapesfordinner4626]

@@dean_l33 Guts would not approve

[@desadograisedrobot515]

Every loli in an action show. He is just accepting his people.

[@lonewanderer3219]

Fat Geralt is the true hero of this game. He and Joel are happily sharing a beer in heaven

[@lucascoval828]

Based Fat Geralt.

[@kingbash6466]

“There was a sequel. Wasn’t as good.” -Joel Miller (2020)

[@lucascoval828]

NOICE. 👌👌👌

[@televisionpropaganda]

I want a shirt with those words

[@ShatteredGlass916]

The real reason why Joel gets to 'Golf' treatment

[@Eric_The_Eccentric]

They really victim blamed Ellie. And the usual suspects "you asked for it" "Pay for your sins" "Karma" And so on...

[@hiranmaydas4921]

IGN Japan on TLOU2 - This game is about right and wrong, and it is made by people who think they are always right.

[@Needler13]

lol did they really say that because it is 100% true. Too much time western media tries to make a black and white scenario work in a dark story and it fails. That is probably why AoT is popping off nationally, it shows the there is no black and white, we are all just different shades of grey.

[@ther_ternum6712]

@@Needler13 Excuse me, but what is AoT? I'm very interested.

[@lulubugs2752]

@@ther_ternum6712 Attack on Titan

[@ther_ternum6712]

@@lulubugs2752 Oh, I recognize that actually. Just not the acronym. Thanks, anyway. Gonna check it out and see if it's really as good as people say.

[@pulpficti]

That's a nothing sentence tbh. Something that sounds smart but isn't. It's in no way a game about right or wrong wtf.

[@henrynelson9301]

David Cage has taught us that you can get away with a bad plot for a film by just making it a video game, and I fucking hate it.

[@lucascoval828]

Sounds like every videogame ever.

[@avadoksorem2854]

The way you describe TloU1 makes it sound like one shouldn’t even get invested worth it on principle because that world is just that shitty a place and should be left to die. I never liked the concept of TLoU from the get go and whether intentional or not, you’ve made me glad to see I was right. I detest this series and any others like it. Besides, this zombie/fungus apocalypse thing is and always has been utterly absurd and I hate it. I can’t respect a game built on riding the coattails of the obnoxiously overdone zombie apocalypse genre this desperately.

[@KevinKess]

@@avadoksorem2854 Forgive me for asking this (especially over an old comment like this one), but… Would The Walking Dead count as one of those series that you absolutely hate (regardless if it's the original comic, the game made by Telltale or the TV series)?

[@mrbigglezworth42]

David Cage is an unintentional comedic genius, whose desperate attempts to make a serious story backfire because of his own general incompetence.

[@robogreek3157]

You'd think it would be the opposite

[@admfitz3480]

Abby is what Guts would have been had Miura had no idea how to redeem and humanise a character properly

[@AhmadAhmad-xv5cr]

Even if that happens guts is still more of an interesting character then Abby beacuse it would make sense why he would turn evil

[@lookdontlook8829]

@@AhmadAhmad-xv5cr even then during the arcs where guts was the most fucked up, he still hated the things he had to in order to kill the apostles. it got to the point where he was about to cry at the last panel of the black swordsman arc

[@RosencrantzxGuildenstern]

@@lookdontlook8829 Yeah, I never understood why so many people think Guts was just a one-note stereotypical edgelord before the Golden Age arc when there were so many telltale signs of him being conflicted and ridden by guilt even before that famous crying panel. You could tell that behind all the bitterness and nihilism he was at least partially projecting his own self-hatred on his surroundings, especially when he was talking about how the weak who don't have the strength to live how they please should just die.

[@samuelbattershell3413]

Give Guts some credit

[@Konnor1224]

U comparing these two characters makes me want to hurl.....

[@TheGuardingDark_]

“The morality of fantasy and horror is, by and large, the strict morality of the fairy tale. The vampire is slain, the alien is blown out of the airlock, the Dark Lord is vanquished, and, perhaps at some loss, the good triumph - not because they are better armed but because Providence is on their side. Why does the third of the three brothers, who shares his food with the old woman in the wood, go on to become king of the country? Why does Bond manage to disarm the nuclear bomb a few seconds before it goes off rather than, as it were, a few seconds afterwards? Because a universe where that did not happen would be a dark and hostile place. Let there be goblin hordes, let there be terrible environmental threats, let there be giant mutated slugs if you really must, but let there also be hope. It may be a grim, thin hope, an Arthurian sword at sunset, but let us know that we do not live in vain.” -Terry Pratchett *let there be dragons* This. This is what makes TLOU2 such an absolute travesty. It is misery compounded upon sadness and torture. A constant unpleasant horrific slog. Written by a self indulgent narcissistic prick who thought they were being high-minded and smart when they pointed out that sometimes, people are shitty to each-other. There is no rectitude to be pulled from the greater waste. Nothing that makes the suffering and the pain worth it, its just 10 hours of misery porn pretending to be profound.

[@grimerime23]

wasn't it 38 hours? edit - 38 hours if you spend time doing shit like looting, 20 to 25 if you speedrun

[@lucascoval828]

Damn. 😢

[@MrAsh1100]

Kinda like Goblin Slayer. You see the violence, rape and all manner of shit at the start. Hell, you even know that the higher ranked adventurers don't care much for goblins since they consider goblins as something of a small fry and the pay isn't worth their time. And then you have Goblin Slayer. He goes around killing goblins. He went through all that shit in the past and he knew what it meant. Even if he is gone off the far end, he still wanted to at least save as many lives as possible from the goblins. It might not matter much to others but to him, he never wanted anyone else to go through what he did.

[@matteste]

Heck, you even see this with infamously pitch black and nihilistic works. Fate/Zero had Waver survive and intent on furthering his studies, Ideon ended with the souls of the dead reconciling and moving on to a new world, Shiki showed that despite the devastation there were survivors who made it through broken but alive. Hell, even Texhnolyze ended with a somber smile from the stone faced protagonist of what had been even though everything was beyond salvation.

[@shadowthelegend100]

@@MrAsh1100 Goblin Slayer does have that light at the end of the tunnel. It's more about GS slowly rekindling his humanity after years of numing it so he could deal with the pain while persuing his revenge with the cold precision of a machine. The first chapters set up a dark, cold unfeeling world that will chew you up and spit you out if you are unprepared and it still doesn't shy away from reminding you of just how bad shit can get down the line, but at no point does it throw pointless misery at the reader just for misery's sake. The Slayer teaches us and the Preistess just how bad shit really is out there and how dark the world can be but at the same time the Priestess and the others slowly help the Slayer remember just how warm and bright it can get. The hallmark of a good dark fantasy imo is how it balances the dark and bright aspects of it. Hope contextualises despair and vice versa, and at the end of the day no one likes to watch something that will only make them feel like shit for no reason.

[@sharzinlalebazri5673]

Game awards: where quality gets snubbed, pretentiousness is rewarded and dignity dies a slow, painful death.

[@kalashnikovdevil]

Dignity was unceremoniously shot and dumped out back about 15 minutes into the first game awards as part of the evening entertainment.

[@comradesam3382]

"OOO YOU THINK GOTY WAS THE WORST GAME OF THIS YEAR DO YOU?"And as Yatzee said "yes"

[@alejandrotorresriquelme8714]

If you think prizes will get you more sells at this point, we know why you use knee protections

[@ebak8283]

TLOU even counter argues that Joel would not be softer living in the community cause his brother Tommy wasn't "softer" when they got there. What Joel, Tommy, and even Ellie went through to survive was traumatizing and TLOU2 ignores it, saying that up til they met Abby, they lived the ideal life.

[@uhoh6706]

Even then, he literally abandons an entire family on the side of the road before he even realized the spore zombies were a thing. It’s clear he only cares about those he is familiar with and doesn’t want strangers getting in the way of him trying to help those he loves. The whole scenario of him trusting Abby’s group literally goes against what the first game established literally in the beginning.

[@dbajek12]

Well u could counter argue that they were in a blizzard so they had to follow her to safety but honestly i still dont think Joel would just go or even name drop their names. He doesnt trust others easily; it goes against his instincts.

[@Hunterese123]

@@uhoh6706 Yet the 4 years in Jackson if you actually read the patrol logs, they've been bringing strangers, even injured ones into the community for help, so all this BS about Joel not trusting is silly because he's learned to live amongst a whole community, when before he never would.

[@ThatBisexualOverThere]

@@Hunterese123 sure, but you don’t just forget 20+ years of fighting after 4 in a trusting environment, that is just not something that happens.

[@Hunterese123]

@@ThatBisexualOverThere So you know from experience then, my bad, you right, everyone at anytime knows when trouble is a foot, you can't let your guard down once

[@TheDrummingBuffoon]

Wasn't really expecting a creator going by the name of TheAlmightyLoli to bring it when it comes to narrative breakdown and critique, but damn man solid work excellent vid.

[@Snakedude4life]

What if Abby had just challenged Joel to a one on one knife fight? An honorable dual. But I guess it’s not as traumatic to the real victim in all of this: _the player_ 🎩 🐍 no step on SNEK! 🇺🇸🇭🇰

[@tylerulfmann4586]

I always thought the best path for Joel arc was to confront his old raider and weapon smuggling past that had harmed so many And for him to free eli of the burden of what she was last of us 2 unfortunately was not that story

[@GK-mr9ko]

@@tylerulfmann4586 no that would’ve made too much sense and good writing

[@Dogmelter42]

Implying that Abby has any honor. Or depth.

[@redvenge709]

The writers of the previous game worked hard to make Joel sympathetic. There is no scenario where the player would ever like whichever character killed Joel. Druckmann could have tacked on some forced "Ackshhully, Joel is a serial murderer and drowns puppies" flashback, but the audience would not buy it. If they wanted to tell a "revenge bad" story, they cannot pick a beloved character. In no universe would any player side with Abby, ever.

[@deadbeatradio7831]

Lol your implying that a woman when her life is on the line would be admirable.

[@erdervv]

Lev is one of the worst offenders in this game. "he" didn't run away from the cult because he disliked them, but because they would not let him kill people. How the fuck is he considered a good person.

[@arshygohardy]

you and his mother would've gotten along

[@zolafuckass8606]

Joel "Yoshikage" Miller just wanted a quiet life. No, but for real though, Joel was pretty justified in most of the shit he did. Including the torture, I'd say.

[@jackmesrel4933]

Joel did what most of us would do in a survival situation, specially after losing the people we cared about. Abby tho has EVERYTHING: people that cared about her, a place to call home, a threat that requires attention to protect the afore mentioned, but after all this time the only thing she cares is to get his dad revenged. It's like when celebrities try to look like they care about ordinary people, it's fake as fuck, and if you're trying to make a realistic story don't write one of your MC as Doomguy with a vagina ffs (and even then Doomguy went through hell and back only to find his world in shambles. Abby is more one dimensional than fucking DOOMGUY)

[@mts9266]

@@jackmesrel4933 lol doomguy is selfless at least. He punches his higher up because he was ordered to kill civvies, and when he sees the portal to hell at the end for doom 64, he decides to go in and close the teleporter, leaving him for dead. Doomguy is a likable character because his writers knew what Doomguy was. And he doesnt suffer from the mistake TLOU 2 suffers from, where they talk about murder being bad, then kill everything. In DOOM eternal it actually fits the narrative because the narrative doesnt try to be deep like TLOU2.

[@Hunterese123]

SO then Abby is too, perspectives, not everyone is good or bad

[@Hunterese123]

@@jackmesrel4933 Yet Ellie took everything from her, so how is Ellie any different, killing Joel, but Ellie kills her whole WLF crew and friends, when Ellie could of just stayed in Jackson with people that cared about her

[@zolafuckass8606]

@@Hunterese123 It's almost like the entire plot is fucking stupid, and the mission to get revenge is a stupid idea, which is why they didn't do it in the first game.

[@canariautara4239]

The Last of Us and its ending sums up how finding a cure wouldn't resolve anything. There would still be bandits and psychopaths, not to mention that said cure would most likely be exploited and in limited supply. So the way the sequel demonized Joel doesn't really make sense.

[@mattc2306]

Trust me, there's a ton of nonsense surrounding this game. Such as a pregnant woman intentionally putting herself into conflict, for example. You'd think she would stay in a quarantine zone to avoid a miscarriage.

[@MrAsh1100]

@@mattc2306 Or everyone being waaaay too optimistic or just doing the dumbest things.

[@ReDestrobo]

@@mattc2306 why did they want a pregnant woman in frontlines? That is a big thing I didn’t understand

[@mattc2306]

@@ReDestrobo Yeah, that confused me as well. I mean, it was dumb when they did that in Wolfenstein 2, but at the very least, it wasn't trying to be realistic.

[@leowei771]

@@ReDestrobo it is to show that woman can be stronf and able to fight despite being pregnant. And also a char to just get murder by Ellie to show her 'descent' to darkness. That is about it.

[@SuperStar-ss1pn]

16:11 The CHAD black surgeon: Has no backstory Isn't that much of a prick The virgin jerry: Ew.

[@lucascoval828]

Dr. Chad McBlackster will never be forgotten. Good night sweet prince. 😔

[@Modeus.]

they really whitewashed a black fan-favorite character. I can't even.

[@kristofgriffin384]

"Logan" was a better sequel to "The Last of Us" than this game.

[@fishperson5390]

Isn't Logan more of a remake than a sequel to TLOU?

[@Orochi97Jr]

@@fishperson5390 r/wooosh. Edit:a few people are just bitching about me using r/wooosh. That's fucking pathetic.

[@rikumajumder1558]

@@Orochi97Jr Bro, what Brandon said wasn't technically wrong. Please take your Reddit Memes back into that 4Chan wannabe site.

[@Orochi97Jr]

@@rikumajumder1558 He didn't get the joke that's why I replied to him Go back to your shitty ass 4Chan please.

[@MajorCman]

How about we come back together, and continue to shit on this game?

[@pontiusporcius8430]

Jeremy jahns said it best, it is a revenge story where ellie chooses not to go for her revenge against Abbie's, but still loses for pursuing revenge.

[@Beer_]

Honestly as bad as last of us 2 was, i dont think the reaction would have been as pissed off if Naughtydog and Neil Druckman hadnt acted like complete shitbags about the game

[@robstefani9853]

It’s the same deal as the Star Wars sequels. The fan base could have handled a bad movie but the company couldn’t handle any criticism and lashed out, lost a ton of support and blamed the fans for it.

[@wisemankugelmemicus1701]

@@robstefani9853 I’m gonna be honest, yeah. Also when my opinions on The Last Jedi settled, the Han Solo film leaving a bad taste in my mouth, Rogue One being neutered..then you have toxic leftist assholes treating Star Wars fans like neo-Nazis the series just died for me

[@leowei771]

@@wisemankugelmemicus1701 NVM what they're doing to the Mandalorian series, the only thing keeping them afloat before they death star Gina Carano.

[@OneEyedCloud01]

@@leowei771 It's such an odd choice honestly. Finally something that has had a positive reaction besides Force Awakens! Let's destroy it. Wtf?

[@sdbzfan1]

never tell a gamer that they are wrong for not liking something because at the end of the day, they choose whether or not to buy your next game

[@Jm-ki4su]

you can't just have ellie cutting her way through abbey's army, and then when the showdown between the two commences, ellie sparing her hated foe on the basis of 'revenge bad' fucking see it through to the end, instead of some measly ambiguous shit

[@whirligig_saw]

it would be like if in god of war you spend 3 games (5if you consider spin off) trying to get your freedom and revenge for your family and killing everyone to get to zeus only to spare him in the end of gow 3 like, that is so fucked up

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

@@whirligig_saw It's worse. Zeus did most of what he did because of Kratos' actions. He opened Pandora's Box, and Fear was the entity that latched onto Zeus. It left him right as we killed him. It's that black entity we fight in first person right at the end of GoW 3. And there's even speculation that after he comes to life without the entity of Fear again, while we're beating the shit out of him, he just allows Kratos to do it. Indeed that might be the case. He doesn't resist anymore, even though he's alive and somewhat able again. So that game was actually haunting. We may have just beaten the fuck out of an otherwise fine ruler, something we only did because WE were the ones to turn him paranoid, causing his tyranny. Kratos created is own monster, and then killed him and everyone in his way to get to him. He is in need of redemption far more than Ellie was, and yet he still got what he felt to be his revenge. It even says it in the lyrics of the OST from the new GOW in Old Norse (Icelandic, basically). ''I've no redemption.'' Meanwhile Ellie didn't really do anything wrong, and still has to let Abby go according to Neil Cuckman in order to redeem herself. Such stupid writing. But that's why GOW is a legendary franchise, while TLOU is a franchise that will forever be known as one masterful game leading into a pile of shit sequel.

[@zekromknight1268]

Fuck man, that rewrite of the Theatre Scene gave me some chills. Unlike the game, it made me feel sick to my stomach and actually pushed forward with the idea of how ugly and downright sadistic this cycle of violence was. That and you actually made Jesse an interesting character, that alone deserves some applause.

[@DakotaofRaptors]

Abby should be replaced with Conkeldurr

[@crocodilepoet]

I thought the ending he proposed was really good as well.

[@OrvilleScott]

Same here!

[@dantespardaposter5315]

there's some footage that demostrate that the "jerry doctor" in the first one was a ramdomized NPC cause in some footage it was black... so LOL

[@patchmoulton5438]

I remember watching either Markiplir or Jack play the game way back when. I could have sworn the doctor in their playthrough was black

[@TheHalogen131]

@@patchmoulton5438 Even in this video, his skin is visibly darker, than in TLoU2. This was essentially a retcon.

[@jaykim9859]

Metro series is leagues beyond last of us two when exploring the theme of "humanity"

[@jackmesrel4933]

God bless the slavs and their cynical stories, those guys are the kings of making everything bleak and depressing

[@ChaoticMartian]

@@jackmesrel4933 the story isnt that cynical, as long as you play the hero lol.

[@jamesm7324]

If it's hostile, you kill it

[@Noperare]

Nearly 70 years of soviet communism makes you understand dark themes about humanity. Things a californian hipster would never understand.

[@AthCom]

Communism wasn't even necessary. My advice, read books by Sologub. Especially 'A little demon' or whatever the English title is.

[@InvertedWIng]

There are only two kinds of Jerries in this world: the Seinfelds and the Smiths. And Abby's dad is no Seinfeld.

[@mackielunkey2205]

Three if you count Jerry Mouse.

[@InvertedWIng]

@@mackielunkey2205 He's definitely no Jerry Mouse either.

[@mackielunkey2205]

@@InvertedWIng agreed.

[@kyon813]

And even then, Jerry Seinfeld (in the show, mind) is no saint.

[@Coach_B2024]

I think the stupidest thing in this game, a gem among so many stupid things, is the fact that two girls and a baby go live on their own in an isolated house with not even safe doors and windows in a world like that. I live in a Rome, a pretty safe city, and trust me you want to have bars on your windows (unless you want to wake up to a guy breaking into the apartment like I did once). We don't even have cannibal groups and zombies roaming around looking for prey, mind you.

[@mrscruffles801]

Well it's probably not a safe city if that's a regular occurrence lol. I live in Milwaukee and even here we don't have bars on our windows (though we probably should)

[@JeanMarceaux]

"We don't even have cannibal groups and zombies roaming around looking for prey, mind you." Thankfully Rome is 2k kilometers away from Romania

[@fernandosaldana4116]

I think this rewrite for the theater scene is way better and authentic than Neil's writing feel blatantly rushed and disjointed to the point is laughable

[@ReIigionlsForIdiots]

Neil’s writing is sullied by wokeness. He literally said he needed to fix the uninclusive parts of the first game. Him killing Joel like that was part of him right the wrongs of the non equitable parts of the story in his eyes. Everything woke turns to shit.

[@fernandosaldana4116]

@@ReIigionlsForIdiots You don't say 😒

[@TheGreatDeliveryBoy]

I actually think you had something good going on with your Theater Scene rewrite. To answer the question you put to your audience, I say Tommy letting Mel and Owen live would be the more thematically appropriate story decision. Specifically, Mel and Owen (the man Abby loved) shit-talking her for her selfish actions and, when Tommy sees this and gives them the chance to leave, abandoning her to her fate. Abby seeing her friends killed in front of her is one thing, but imagine the impact it would have on her if she couldn't just pin all the blame for Mel and Own being gone on someone else. It would really drive home the point that it was her fault her friends either died or left her. It would also go some length to lessening the "misery porn" aspect of the game which has been so heavily criticized.

[@NEETKitten]

I think it'd work even better if Mel and Owen were spared by Tommy, only to get killed later on by some group that had a vendetta against the WLF. Really hammer the point home that Abby is in a hell of her own making. She was abandoned by her friends for being a selfish dickhead that put them all in danger, her would-be victims not even giving her somebody to blame for it all by letting Mel and Owen go... only for them to be killed anyways by the cycle of violence that she perpetuated. Their killers don't even have to be named; just random jobbers with a chip on their shoulder. Hell, Abby doesn't even need to see them die, just find their bodies after the fact. Now, granted, this *does* just sound like more misery porn, I'll admit. But in this case it'd be misery porn with a point.

[@snakekingblues3017]

U forget one thing with the current trend a male character can not be written competently

[@ebankoaka1902]

Man, I would never get tired of seeing people shit on The last of us 2, there's just something satisfying about it. Like there's bad games that just were made poorly, and then there's forever burning hell hole that is Tlou2. It's like seeing misbehaving kid getting punished, but in a form of video essays of various lengths

[@GK-mr9ko]

A good shitshow is always fun to watch no matter what the setting is.

[@knox7945]

Because the game is a smack to the gamers and fans all at once. Nobody liked what ND did and it is obvious that this game had an agenda and the shitty story was the cherry on top of a shit sundae

[@HectorJimenez-ee9zi]

It's so fun because the game is so damn pretentious.

[@SuperLlama42]

TLOU2 is kind of like YIIK. You THINK you fully understand how unfathomably bad and pretentious it is, but you can always dig deeper and deeper.

[@dickkickem6472]

@@SuperLlama42 Tehsnakerer?

[@KenWrestle]

Honestly biggest complaint for this game was lack of nanomachines

[@InvertedWIng]

Um...it has parasites though!

[@thishonestgrifter]

Son

[@leowei771]

@@InvertedWIng Such a lust for revenge!

[@themightyempire3511]

This re write seems way smarter to me. If the writers truly wanted to look like the writing gods they thought they were they should have gotten you involved.

[@sobrev1viente]

I've heard some people saying that the first game was drunkman work all along, but those same people forget that idiot only gave the general structure of the plot, while Amy and Bruce where the ones writing the meat of the tale, the relationships and interactions, and keeping an extremely short leash on that fucker, remember that idiot wanted to torture Joel to death in the first game, and I'll say it again, you know which other franchise got the vengeance is bad/the cycle of violence never ends? God of war, from the first game up to the latest those games carried the theme, in the Greek saga games we saw how Kratos was on a downward spiral until he understood that vengeance give him nothing back, no peace which lead to his more calm nature in the latest game, where he sees himself reflected in Balder, and those are simple, extremely simple plots, and didn't needed any plot twist or retcon to work properly when it went from greek to norse culture, while tlou2 went full retcon with a sequel that takes place some years later instead of you know, travelling to another universe

[@masonl.4275]

Yeah as someone who's only played god of war 4 the way you encounter baulder at the end had such an effect that the last of us 2 lacks because he was given the option to kill his mom and as soon as he acted on it kratos puts him down like a dog and you don't feel like you beat some boss you feel like a monster and as the story tries to show it you must be better than those before you. While the last of us 2 "oh yeah evil is subjective and stuff" when all I see is animals tearing each other because they have rabies and didn't learn a thing other then the director is a lazy shill who can't even made a decent zombie game let alone a good story.

[@MrAsh1100]

@@masonl.4275 Yeap. Its just....well....when Balder died....its just sad. Like, that was what Kratos was. No fanfare, nothing. Maybe a sigh. And his mother there grieving for him. As much shit as I can give the game especially its gameplay and RPG elements, the story is just quite good for today's standard. TLoU 2.....ah well, let's leave it at that

[@sobrev1viente]

@@masonl.4275 Actually at the third game I was wondering, yes this gods are assholes, but have they really been doing evil deeds on general or only wrong Kratos with the absolving of his sins, and that's what I refer to, after finishing the trilogy the character understand he did worst things, he trow the Greek world into apocalypse, that's why he has a change of character, which he shows trough the original saga in his more restrained moments

[@masonl.4275]

@@MrAsh1100 yeah like I played it twice and I kinda wish it had more time for it's story and gameplay but some moments were really great while the last of us 2 failed it's revenge story because it clearly has a good guy bad guy kinda feel which ruins most of them

[@zakuhtet3775]

And if I'm right, TLOU 2 is actually Druckmann's original vision for TLOU 1. Sooooo...yeah...

[@maxwelldanger1929]

it feels like Cutscene Ellie and Gameplay Ellie are split personalites.

[@theketaminekid1241]

Absolutely. Total cognitive dissonance

[@JohnTrustworthy]

"Last of Us 2" or why Hollywood can't make games.

[@LostSandwich]

Crazy how some dude on the internet can come up with a more nuanced and mature story than "top-tier" award-winning video game writers...

[@cjv8522]

I like how the second game completely forgets how the ending of the first game turned out. When they arrived, Joel is immediately knocked out by them as he’s trying to resuscitate Ellie. Once he’s conscious again, they tell him they’re gonna kill Ellie for the cure (without having told her about the procedure at all). Once he protests, they attack him again, threaten to kill him and try to take him outside at gun point. This is all ignoring the fact that the question of Joel’s payment is never even brought up. Even if we play along with Last of Us 2 and assume what Joel did was evil, the Fireflies were total assholes and completely mishandled the situation. If they can’t manage one single smuggler, they sure as shit won’t be able to manage a cure to save the world. That is if they even get the cure to begin with. They waste no time before immediately starting a complicated brain surgery that they know would kill her. They don’t try to make any analysis, tests, hell, even try to find any non-lethal method. Forget how stupid it is, it’s just sadistic. Joel made the right call taking Ellie out of there, Fireflies are a total joke.

[@InvertedWIng]

The only reason Joel and Ellie even lived after the former got knocked out is precisely because they recognized Ellie. Otherwise, they would have happily murdered them both on the spot just to take their boots. And even after seeing Ellie, they would have killed Joel and taken his boots anyway had Marlene not intervened on his behalf. At the end of the day, the Fireflies are no different from the assorted bandits you meet slaughter all throughout the game.

[@ReDestrobo]

@@InvertedWIng not only that in the 1st game the fireflies fail to get cure multiple times... Why should I trust them??

[@KOBULT92]

@@ReDestrobo no matter how much neil wants me to, I will never believe the fireflies would have saved the world with ellie's brainmatter vaccine. It was always just a CHANCE and a slim one. So what's it gonna be joel- let them kill ellie for a CHANCE to cure an already basically dead world? Or save your little girl like you couldn't do last time?

[@ReDestrobo]

@@KOBULT92 even if they got a cure society will never go back to “normal” People are crazy to assume that. Let’s say I was a warlord: why would I want to go back to a normal society?

[@stormeaglegaming5395]

Thank you

[@GodOfOrphans]

I just realized something, Joel was essentially "fridged" or killed off to provide motivation to another character yet nobody actually calls it that because it's apparently only fridging when it happens to women.

[@Noperare]

Undertale, an indie game made by one guy, not only did the "violence is bad" message better, it is core part of the gameplay. The story completely changes depending if you choose the genocide path. Meanwhile Neil, with all the money and game technology from Sony, couldn´t do half the game Toby Fox did.

[@habes1486]

Toby Fox had better gay characters too

[@NEETKitten]

I don't even like Undertale and I agree with ya. The fact that TLoU2 couldn't even come close to a (in my personal opinion) mediocre indie game speaks volumes about the current state of the AAA gaming industry.

[@voltaireentertainment]

​@@NEETKittencalling undertale mediocre is crazy.

[@NEETKitten]

@@voltaireentertainment Everything undertale is praised for was done earlier and better by other games. It *really* feels like a bootleg mishmash of all of its "inspirations"

[@voltaireentertainment]

@@NEETKitten interesting mind sharing the games? I'm interested?

[@archbishopofthecrusades9579]

Normally I get tired of people harping ona game, but not this time, they fucked his thing up so badly, I don’t see myself interested in the slightest with TLOU3.

[@joshgroban5291]

I think it's because TLOU2 is bad from a writing standpoint. When people shit on it, you will always learn something about writing or discover some bull about the game you'd never know. Even if you're not a writer you stand to gain something. Take a game like anthem for example, which was physically broken in everyway and you don't really learn anything besides how big of a fuck up it was.

[@forastero54321]

@@joshgroban5291 the sad part is that this level of story telling might have been more acceptable if this was the original game and first one was a prequel - thus bumping the popularity of og TLoU.

[@kapparomeo]

There's never going to be TLOU3. Druckman's getting his TLOU TV show, which is all he ever wanted - he only made a videogame as a poor substitute for not being able to break into Hollywood. TLOU2 did its job for him and the rest of us can go hang.

[@marzialalfonzocanada888]

dumbest decision yet is to split your fanbase apart just so you can stroke ur ego

[@fiel81]

Very true, it's basically how to kill you're fanbase 101

[@veronicasilk8429]

Seeing that sex scene really shows the hypocrisy that Sony and modern journalists project. They condemn anime and Japanese games such as Dead or Alive and Senran Kagura for their material, but when The Last of Us Part 2 has a sex scene after the two characters have a talk about PTSD and trauma while also having two people "rating their kiss" and this is considered Game of the Year.

[@mattc2306]

Journalism has been a joke for the last few years. And it really sucks how far Sony has fallen, given that I've played a lot of their games throughout my childhood. And seeing all the drama surrounding the PS4 era is just sad. At least Ghost of Tsushima was pretty good, I guess.

[@cattrucker8257]

It's incredible how much better your edit makes the story. Even with all the other weaknesses still left in unaltered, it'd bump the game from beyond rock bottom to something tolerable.

[@ashotofdepresso2768]

D&D character stereotypes are more defined and have greater depth than Abby

[@sigmaboost3000]

No word of a lie, your rewritten version sounds much more impactful and true to the spirit of the first TLOU.

[@belias4c907]

I remenber getting spoiled for the death of Joel before playing the game, but I didn't know the background of it. At first I imagined Abby was a survivor of group he killed when he was a raider and it would be difficult to hate Abby for getting revenge for the peoples she loved and lost because of Joel. The revenge would have been way better if it was for something horrible Joel had done, it wouldn't have been difficult since he did horrible things to survive. But no, Neil Cuckman had to kill Joel for the thing he did right. Joel killed the surgeon because he wanted to save Ellie, he had to kill him because he was standing in his way. If he didn't treaten Joel and just stepped away, he would still be alive. Sorry for bad english

[@denseaf1582]

It’s so disappointing that it took more than 6 years to get this travesty of a game. That the devs focused on pushing graphical fidelity and presentation to such great heights while simultaneously condemning the story-the most important part of the franchise-to be written by a class of edgy high schoolers.

[@bernardotorres5274]

*Edgy ACTIVISTS high schoolers.

[@denseaf1582]

@@bernardotorres5274 Ah crud, forgot that part. And like most woke activists, they whitewashed a surgeon and his daughter then called it progressive.

[@joshgroban5291]

That's an insult to high schoolers, their fanfictions are still more entertaining than TLOU2.

[@mrscruffles801]

I had terrible story ideas that were more interesting than this abomination.

[@DakotaofRaptors]

Abby: *Beats Joel to a bloody pulp despite Ellie's pleads* Also Abby: Why is Ellie mad at me?

[@vespenegas261]

Don't forget, she did it after he saved her life.

[@soullister1269]

You weren't kidding about this being a long one. Even better tho

[@nilsolofleif8886]

Embrace the long

[@trevorcoyle517]

Long man good

[@nilsolofleif8886]

@@trevorcoyle517 the long is a pathway to many abilities some may consider... Unnatural

[@RogueFox2185]

Joel Miller did nothing wrong.

[@Megatron_95]

But Neil did

[@Orochi97Jr]

Joel Miller is a hero! Abbyzilla is a freak of nature monsterity created by a psychopathic doctor called Jerry.

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

Joel meet the wrong girl

[@F_lippy]

*Rusty Shackleford

[@mrsing7465]

@The Mirror's Child All justified.

[@JPG.01]

TloU2 is the horse that refuses to die. So we have to beat it, beat it savagely until it does. We don't call Tony Stark in Age of Ultron the good guy, so Jerry does not deserve it either. It's different circumstances, but the same kind of thinking. Damn... You story sounds compelling enough for me to buy this hypothetical game. I would buy a console and the game to experience that story.

[@seagullsays5831]

"Druckmann had his chance."- Jobel Miller, probably

[@zakuhtet3775]

Abby: Jo-Ell, no!

[@patchmoulton5438]

Where did you learn to survive fungus zombies? ON A FARM!?

[@taboritskygaming7841]

"Babe wake up, loli uploaded."

[@ryantanner48]

This is hands down the worst game I have played in my entire life. Now, I know this sounds very hyperbolic, especially given that there are games out there that are objectively worse. And I'd agree with you there (to anyone that likes this game), however I judge games on enjoyment factor, and The Last of Us 2 gave me no joy whatsoever. If anything, I felt nothing but negative thoughts in my head the more I played. No other game out there was as pretentious, cynical, insipid, asinine, frustrating, joyless, or depressing as this game was. Seeing it win all those awards as being the "Best Game of 2020" sums up my issue with the year as a whole. A global virus leading to millions of deaths and mandatory quarantine, spiteful people so entitled that it risks other lives, and showing you that every choice you make is a mistake. I'm not even angry at Joel's death, I just find this game a tone-deaf experience. It's what makes a movie like Wonder Woman 1984 look so much worse in hindsight with its "wish" morality. Even the "C" Virus from Resident Evil 6 was more subtle than anything from The Last of Us 2 (and was a more fun game, imo) I have no issue with dark stories but in a time where the world has gone to hell in a handbasket, this game was just a painful experience from start to finish. And I hope to never touch this game ever again

[@grahamlawson402]

I definitely agree. I cannot tell you how insulting and patronizing it was to see The Last of Us Part II sweep the Game Awards last year and even win the award for 2020 Game of the Year, although I'm sure many people saw it coming. The Shuckmeister said this in a video of his as well, but a game that actively goes out of its way to punish the player for having the audacity to enjoy its story and characters (or for even playing the damn thing in the first place) should be automatically disqualified from a nomination for Game of the Year. It's especially infuriating since games that are much more fun were released that same year (Ghost of Tsushima, Final Fantasy VII Remake, Doom Eternal, Ori and the Will of the Wisps etc.), games that deserve to be called the best of 2020 far more than The Last of Us II.

[@thisaintitchief5222]

This is how I unironically feel about fallout 76 (even after the updates) and I usually enjoy every game i play

[@whirligig_saw]

man i agree 100%with you

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

Lol, imagine believing in the "pandemic".

[@ryantanner48]

@@TheStraightestWhitest Even if 2020 didn't turn out the way it did, the game would still be a tone deaf experience given how people typically are on social media. Not to mention that the game tries so hard to paint Joel as the bad guy. Nevermind the fact that a cure for the in-game fungi outbreak would be improbable considering how long the Fireflies have tried finding one, not to mention that society was already at an all time low so a cure for the outbreak wouldn't solve anything and would actually make the situation worse as the hypothetical cure would be exploited.

[@WhyDoYouExistX]

There are many problems with this game, but here's at least one word of advice to writers and potential ones it makes loud and clear: Don't put themes and messages above consistency, sense making, world building, characters and ultimately storytelling. Just tell a good story and make the right decisions, not force whatever messages you want to push and disregard collateral damage and consequences, which will very likely have been told countless times before anyway, like "revenge is bad". The Last of Us 2 is a prime example of a writer going so far to convey themes and messages that they disregard consistency, sense making, characters and world building, and it goes horribly wrong. And an example of the morals and messages of a story being obscenely one-sided, double standard and hypocritical. If you want to write fiction, consider your playthrough, watchthrough, or knowledge of the game through videos like these, a learning experience. And ignoring the fact that the message of the game is extremely hypocritical, one sided and ultimately hollow, did we really need to have these beloved characters act out of character conveniently for plot and be killed or left crippled, traumatised, fucked up and lose everything, just to be told that revenge is bad when we have been told so many times before? Was it worth it?

[@bernardotorres5274]

I thought that was chapter 3 of basic writing...

[@MrAsh1100]

@@bernardotorres5274 Isn't that supposed like a 101 of basic writing? Especially in a sequel? Never took a writing class but I can see the cracks in TLoU 2 where someone who only got a C grade in writing class is trying to be too ambitious

[@joshgroban5291]

Honestly it'd be cool if the game actually delved into how much of a delusional ass Abby's father was. If abby had character, she'd probably go through a character arc after learning her father isn't a good guy

[@pulpficti]

A word to all potential writers. iF you think Last of us part 2 is about revenge bad then I suggest another job, because you can't analyze a story.

[@MrAsh1100]

@@pulpficti And you're a writer?

[@Mumblejumby]

I can guarantee the people in the game awards gave Neil the awards out of sympathy, not out of creativity.

[@mrmaxwell346]

You mispelled pity

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

@@mrmaxwell346 potty

[@Sorain1]

I don't think it was sympathy or pity, I think it was and always has been politics.

[@thegrimcritic5494]

... Holy shit. What you proposed with Tommy... I was not expecting that. That actually made my blood run cold as you described it. That... WOULD make it on the same level as Spec Ops. No joke. THAT. Would have made it a truly exceptional story worthy of the praise it currently has. Very well done man.

[@CrazyGunMan100]

Thank god i got the cure now i only have to worry about: Runners, Stalkers, Clickers, Bloats, Bandits, The Gubbernment, The Fireflies, The WLF, Cannibals, Cultists, Cannibal cultists, any random shmuck with a gun, the flu, any variety of infection unrelated to cordyceps, tetanus, starvation, dehydration, a variety of locational hazards such as falling to my death or being crushed, a random trap blowing me up or pulling me off my feet, any prexisting conditions, the weather and any geological events that may or may not be occuring at any moment beneath my feet. But thank god, spores and bites? Yeah i'll probably be fine, unless the bite gets infected and i die of a fever, but hey, small mercies right?

[@angelsofblood9879]

I think this concept of a story works better than what we got. Druckman, has stated that he wanted to make a story for his children: I'm concerned if this is the kind of story that he wants any child to read.

[@mrscruffles801]

I refuse to believe Neil can ever reproduce

[@andrewrogers3067]

No joke, I know silent protagonists with no faces that have better character then Abby

[@lanternguy]

You are completely right. The rookie from halo odst has a more fleshed out personality. And of course Link is still better "written" than most western characters nowadays

[@Orochi97Jr]

Cloud Speed from GTA 3 is a better character then Macho Man Abbyzilla.

[@lanternguy]

@M G yeah, the Rookie is my favorite silent protagonist for that alone

[@nerobernardino88]

L i n k

[@liquidsweg4858]

@M G A MAN CHOOSES A SLAVE OBEYS

[@frogglen6350]

I'm ok with people enjoying this game. But the fans are so defensive and so in denial of how bad the writing is. Like, you can tell that the fans calling this game's plot "brave" oe original never played Nier Automata, Metal Gear Solid 3, Yakuza 7, Xenoblade, or Red Dead.

[@bernardotorres5274]

And that is key on knowing when a game/movie/product is bad, when you face the hordes of deranged defenders. If a the product is that good there would be no one defending it, for the product speaks for itself. Much of this deranged folk are like this because deep down, many know the story is trash but they can never admit it.

[@crazyinsane500]

Well, the problem is they tie their identity to it, just like the people who defended Fallout 76 or Flat Earth being real. Saying that they like TLOU2 makes them feel smarter than others, all the while they're repeating the same points verbatim as KZbin creators and bribed journalists following a script of points to follow provided by Sony, with no hint of self-reflection or original thought or inspection into their sources. When you imply that the game is bad, you're challenging this idealized version of themselves, and instead of admitting they're fallible they kinda enter an existential crisis and lash out.

[@MrAsh1100]

@@crazyinsane500 I wished they could just say the writing is not as good as the first and there are many flaws and plotholes compared to the first game instead of...."its an experience, you don't get it". I mean.....I don't get it because the game is really bad in storytelling

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@crazyinsane500. At least Fallout 76 is actually entertaining.

[@mickram7911]

@@MrAsh1100 Red dead redemption 2 was ''an experience'' If they deny it and call the game ''toxic masculinity'' then you know the type of person you're talking to.

[@knightmarespawn2690]

Her: Come over. Me: I can't, loli just uploaded. Her: My parents aren't home ~ Me: *Did I stutter, wh*re!?*

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

Legend.

[@squidgiemctentacles5265]

Gonna be honest, I love your opinions here but the music you played in the background had my attention. When Roland the Thompson Gunner came on, I realized your taste in music is god-tier

[@BobExcalibur]

I don't buy Tommy as the kind of character who would torturously murder several people to emotionally break the person who killed Joel. As you yourself said, Tommy resented the depth of the immorality Joel stooped to in their past even for the sake of their survival. Even having his community attacked by raiders and people he has known for years murdered didn't coax that kind of Heart Of Darkness attitude shift out of him. Tommy struck me as the kind of person who resents callousness even as he depends on it to survive. He's only interested in revenge as long as its as clean as he can possibly get it, thus his attempts all fail. A hypocrite and a coward, but only because he's desperate to hold on to some humane principles when the world has forgotten them.

[@profatgamer]

I could see joels death being the last straw that broke his still idealistic heart and made him understand the dark and twisted things joel did to keep them alive.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

Nah I definitely see him doing this. ''I got nothing but nightmares of those years.'' He's already been there. He'll do it again considering the circumstances. Yes it'll haunt him again, but that's never stopped men like him from getting back at people like Abby. I know people like that. Criminals. Not all of them always enjoy it, but all of them are capable of doing it.

[@jakefrost7404]

*_Your intro was perfect, Loli. A short montage of scenes from the much more beloved original game, audibly carried by the Man in Black, bidding a fond farewell..._* *_...crashed by a living meme. Suits the series to a tee._*

[@melancholyman369]

Give this man a fucking 🏅 That hypothetical ending is leagues better

[@frogglen6350]

I think the worst part about the fans, is that some of them will call the story unique or brave for switching to the antagonists But, like, other games already dod this first and better. You can tell that many lou 2 fans are normies.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

''You might not like this ending.'' Dude, I was literally on the verge of tears. As a hobby writer currently writing a massive medieval fantasy with a very grim and dark tone, this is one of the best stories I've ever seen. Yours isn't a story about revenge or hope or any of those typical tropes. It's a story about HUMANITY. Because what Tommy did in your story is exactly what some men I know personally would do in his position. And the way that level of payback affects Ellie, I could already tell where it was going. The best stories write themselves. The next step is obvious. That was the case here too. I could already tell Ellie was going to help Abby the moment you began describing the theater section from Ellie and Dina's perspectives. Masterful work. I would love it if game designers dared to make stories like these. This is true redemption. Through pity, the player, like Ellie, would come to forgive Abby for what she did to us (Joel).

[@kirebub]

Going in guns blazing slaughtering everyone and their dogs should really be effecting the story in a negative direction. Game gets more challenging as every enemy gets more terrified and hateful of Ellie. Using more grenades and heavy weaponry, calling for back up immediatly upon spotting her, enemies are more alert as they know Ellie is somewhere in the city, no more begging for mercy as they know they'll recieve none they'll all fight to their last breath. Ellie becoming more sadistic and twisted as her bodycount grows turning her friends off causing them to eventually fear and abandon her.

[@stormeaglegaming5395]

Basically like Dishonored , great game

[@NEETKitten]

So basically, it'd take Loli's idea that "Abby and the WLF would basically be going to war with the Boogeyman" from a previous video, and turn it into a gameplay mechanic? I like it. Good idea.

[@isuckateverything]

Dear Naughty Dog, You know ya done fucked up when fucking Spider-Man 3 did a better job of the "forgive your enemy" lesson.

[@kielsambajon3416]

this how it is basically, Neil made a new OC and didn't want that new OC to die. to be honest this felt like some sort of juvenile fan fiction.

[@joshuabrien2970]

Its more like him making the original idea that he had but doesn't make sense if you don't know the original idea was tess going across the country to kill Joel for I think also killing her dad that idea was shot down for being too ridiculous

[@kielsambajon3416]

​@@joshuabrien2970 ah yes ive heard about this, it was already shot down for being absurd. but he still pushed for the idea, only to make characters flake out whenever they are an inch close to their goals. because of sybolism i guess...

[@cape9869]

In my opinion the worst part, the absolute worst, even worst than Joel's dead, was the fact that the writing actually expected you to like Abby and care for her at the end. Like, who in the nine hells would care for a person who brutally tortured and murdered a man in front of her adopted daughter, forcing her to watch, and ignoring her cries for mercy? And the victims are also the beloved main characters from the first game.

[@pulpficti]

You cared for Joel didn't you? He also killed and tortured, innocents even in his hunter years. Plus Abby doesn't know who she is, she also didn't torture him in front of her technically, just bashed his brains in. Also she hates Joel, maybe even more than you hate Abby. Humans are very tribal, we can care about our group while dehumanizing another. Which makes Abby so interesting because she learns to care about 2 people from another group she previously dehumanized

[@OneEyedCloud01]

@@pulpficti Yeah and do you know WHY people cared for Joel? Because we played quite literally the entire first game from his perspective and shared in the loss of his daughter and his developing surrogate father relationship with Ellie. Nobody said he was a good person, but he was both understood _and_ agreed with for his ending decision by the majority of players. Even if you didnt agree, you could sympathize and understand his fatherly love because WE experienced it in a way through him. What's the first impression of Abby? She brutalizes both main characters over the death of her father with 0 remorse (after joel saved her 10 min ago..). Why would anyone care about her after that? Nobody went into TLOU2 wanting to see abby and friends but that was the _worst_ impression they could've made. If naughty dog were actually smart, first scene would've been abby finding her father dead. Time skip happens. Abby does _not_ kill joel right away and there's tension, dialogue about Joel's choices both with Ellie and Abby, ETC. Like why did that have to go the worst possible way about it?? LMFAO.

[@pulpficti]

@@OneEyedCloud01 I know everybody likes Joel, me too, I played Part 1 5 times. But Joel lives in a brutal world, we already had our Ellie and Joel adventure. Iam glad they didn't make an easy cash cow sequel. It's precisely because we like Joel that much that Abby killing him is so fucked up. The reason why we first see her killing Joel is because that's how Ellie first sees her. It would make it much easier for players to sympathize with Abby if we already know why but forgiving someone isn't that easy. That's why we needed to walk in her shoes for a while and then judge for ourselves who Abby is. Some still hated her, some had mixed feelings and some liked her. And imo all these people have good reasons.

[@ReDestrobo]

@@pulpficti I couldn’t like Abby especially her delusional father.... That scene in the hospital made me hate them even more

[@pulpficti]

@@ReDestrobo Just imagine our world atm but much much worse. Let's say there's a possibility for a vaccine but some random kid has to be sacrificed. You would at least think about it. And now imagine 20 years of that shit. Humans are tribal beings. The doctor cares more about his daughter than Ellie but aren't we all guilty to that thinking to a degree?

[@Arkson]

Its so hilarious how literally everyone who tweaked the plot of the last of us 2 ended up with a better story than the shit we got

[@GK-mr9ko]

My little gripe that I will never understand is why they made abbey look that way. In her past she looks like a normal woman, but in her current state you could photoshop a dudes face on her and it would look exactly like a man. Fit women don’t look like that lol.

[@aspiringdad5040]

Even women on steroids usually don't look that muscular. If you check out female bodybuilders and powerlifters they don't look like that. Abby straight looks like a strongman with gender dysphoria.

[@sobrev1viente]

Even the girl they used has a model for the body, while muscular (I think she was a body builder) ain't that muscular

[@crazyinsane500]

The worst part is: One may think this is just something sexist, but it's not. They actually toned down the feminine qualities from the bodybuilder she was based on, and then lazily snapped Laura Bailey's head onto the body. They went off-model and it shows. But, whatever it takes to get Neil's fantasy of Laura Bailey playing physically muscular women in the game I guess.

[@DakotaofRaptors]

@@crazyinsane500 someone please mod Machamp into LOU2

[@spiceforspice3461]

And she isn't even hot like Noi smh

[@MR.ICE.]

I just want to say thank you for the videos of you shitting on the last of us 2. For two reasons: 1) Shitting on tlou2 is always fun 2) if it wasn’t for these videos, I’d never have discovered Spec Ops The Line. Absolutely love that masterpiece.

[@normielegion1949]

In a game praised for representation, they also managed to whitewash the black surgeon in order to make him more "sympathetic" *OOPS*

[@DaddyDynastic]

Your version of the theater scene implies something I really like that despite everything she went through and all the killing she had already done by then Joel was still Sheltering her Tommy and Jesse aren't acting just out of personal anger they're Warriors showing a potential rival faction that they weren't soft enough to let something like the death of one of their own go unpunished it would show that even though Ellie and Abby we're prepared to kill and have killed they weren't killers not like this they were emotional but Jesse and Tommy and Joel could turn their feelings off

[@thehonor357]

Your rant on making the revenge story being about Tommy is actually pretty good.

[@jackmesrel4933]

Okay, I really like your rewrite of the story you presented, it definetly was more in-tone with how the original game did things, giving us a depressing world that could still give us embers of hope here and there. This, done by real profesionals, could easily have been the real TLOU 2, unlike the pile of trash we got, so good job man

[@cursedapostate3705]

Honestly your version of the story is so good I'm genuinely angry that we didn't get that instead

[@religiousotaku9926]

The “Saint” that says that the 14 year old girl who could make a cure has no say whatsoever in the fact that she could be killed for the cure and basically caused the end of last of us. Also I agree with the fact that humanity at this didn’t deserve the cure and that this version of humanity (which in my opinion is a very accurate depiction of it) isn’t here to save everyone they’re here to do what they want or just stay alive

[@Jose-se9pu]

I seriously dont undertand people saying Joel was a good person...we liked him, that doesnt make him a good person. The guy was a freaking monster.

[@LegiamasC-OnTwitta]

@@Jose-se9pu he’s a far better person than the one who just casually killed children, and was shocked that someone would try to kill her after she murdered that someone’s father

[@religiousotaku9926]

@@Jose-se9pu everyone in last of us is, especially the doctor

[@vapidwisconsin3405]

man. unironically that hypothetical rewrite was WAY better than what we got. It definitely makes it more consistent and feels like a more TRUE sequel to the last of us. To the point that, besides the fact it's just some rewrite you made up to make a point on why TLOU2 is bad, I'm genuinely upset this isn't the version we got.

[@nont18411]

What’s funny is that Marlene was the most reasonable person in the Fireflies but she died thanks to Jerry’s stubbornness and inability to understand the very first rule of being a doctor: Treating a patient as a human being who needs to give informed consent.

[@igniskitsune887]

Truth be told, I have watched countless videos criticizing this game and every time I try to think about the story, I can never remember much about it because the way they tell you the story is confusing as hell and I can never understand when and where the story is taking place at and the characters always have a different personality in almost every scene I remember them in.

[@owen4376]

This should be a good watch hey

[@JimMilton-ej6zi]

oh my gosh that explains it perfectly "It's written by people who don't think they could ever be the bad guys", that sentence explains exactly why these people seem to be obsessed with presenting their side as always having the best intentions even when doing objective evil and always trying to judge their opponent by exaggerating their worst traits.

[@lukeyspooky611]

One of the worst things about this game is that it sparked way to much controversy. They say that any publicity is good publicity, and I bet that if the shitstorm around this game wasn’t so big, it wouldnt have sold so well. It would just be remembered as another disappointing sequel to a beloved game.

[@dribbler456pls8]

Agreed

[@forastero54321]

True, but I think it was appropriate for this game. It let the gaming community and developers know that we won’t swallow political pandering.

[@Loot1377]

TLOU 2 pulls the "I'm (she's) pregnant," line... THREE TIMES Owen, Dina, and Ellie. Do I sense hack writing? You bet I do 😎😋

[@Narutou01]

1. I really like the idea of tommy becoming an understandably ruthless killer. He resented joel for his brutal nature in the first game. In the second game when joel dies he finally fully understands why joel did the stuff he did in the past. Which pushes him to become just as or even more brutal than joel. 2. As for the theater section, I have an idea. What if after Tommy finishes abby's group,(a zombie horde or slavers could be involved) abby manages to escape. Details aside, abby and ellie get captured by slavers and along with dina and lev. The key part is that dina and lev are taken to a separate area, probably for breeding purposes. So ellie and Abby are stuck in a situation where they're both emotional drained, both hate each other, but can't kill each other due to captivity but want to save their loved ones. Over time they decide to become convenient allies to escape and fight the slavers. As they journey together they slowly start to understand and soften towards each other. At this point you'd get to choose which character you want to play as to complete the story. Their play styles would need enough distinctiveness to encourage replayability along with altered perspective of the same set pieces depending on who you play as. For the happy ending you can just have them successfully save dina and lev. from there they forgive each other and split up or decide to group up. For the harsher ending they find lev and dina after fighting through a bunch of slavers and zombies. When they find lev and dina either dead or mentally broken, or a combination of the two. After everything they've been through having been for nothing they're left with only one target to blame, each other. So they duke it out to a draw. Or abby can gain the upper hand and relent after realizing that she started the cycle of revenge and needs to stop it. Anyways, that's a few of my thoughts spurred by the video. Definitely some clunkiness there because it's mainly brainstorm. But honestly, anything could've been better than what we actually got

[@rickmalinger5361]

Interesting

[@mattc2306]

Here's the thing about this game; I think this kind of idea *could* have worked. Snuffing out Joel's flame to pass the torch to Ellie to reignite the legacy. Hell, I think the revenge story could've worked under the right circumstances. Unfortunately, the game devolves into a meaningless revenge story that pulls its punches to tell us that life is meaningless and you'll always make bad choices. Quite frankly, the game (at least the story anyway) was just a boring and pretentious trek into non-stop depression.

[@sarmeister1699]

Again, I'll mention that it would be interesting to see how other factions and settlements reacted to a blatant attack that was, in their eyes, completely unprovoked. Without any context(though the context still is shit), they see 1 of 2 things either 1. The WLF is a violent group that doesn't mind killing people and maybe even attacking settlements for perhaps resources or 2. They're a large group that can't control their own people and are dangerous.

[@thebuddah1253]

These casual movie games should have ended at TLOU1

[@pontiusporcius8430]

The only jesus that the apocalypse needs is kenshiro.

[@trustworthytim4762]

What about Toki? Open your heart to Nuclear Jesus, and he will clear the way.

[@pontiusporcius8430]

Can't beat a classic.

[@Soul_Removal]

The redone story you've built is a whole new being on it's own. The fact that it actually takes inspiration from Old boy and other mediums is just as compelling. Ah, If only Neil created a story that actually fleshed out his character's with common sense instead of trying to destroy what Bruce S. had built.

[@mychem20]

dude not only that, it fits perfectly well with the shit show that the game has. it's amazing when someone who writes a story knows what he's actually fucking doing.

[@Alex-ug9wx]

That alternate recommended ending you gave is so fucking good. How can people who were paid literally hundreds of thousands of pounds not be able to make an ending as good as you? You should have been the sole fucking writer of this game.

[@Mrlaneck]

Imagine being one of the people defending this game after launch. Imagine being that sad. Just imagine it.

[@loafofbread5251]

Such an underrated youtuber

[@theotherjared9824]

I still stand by the fact that the ending doesn't work. Ellie decided to not murder Abby and ended up losing everything. Abby got away with murdering Joel and had a relatively happy ending. The game essentially says that revenge is totally worth it and showing mercy will backfire on you.