Alchemists Review - with Tom Vasel

[@RetroMaticGamer]

8:46 "Now the student here is pretty dumb, he'll drink anything." Oh, so this game is a realistic simulation of modern college campuses? How nostalgic!

[@TeshnosFire]

Played this on my yearly game holiday in Germany. Following the logic puzzle while working with a German version I didn't understand was extremely difficult, but I had a lot of fun. My biggest gripe would be that it doesn't last long enough, the two times I played I felt like I wanted to play with the mechanics a bit more. x'D A lot of fun.

[@BobaGabe1]

The app I am waiting for is the one that will control the enemies in a dungeon crawl. Imagine if the empire in Imperial Assault was controlled by a smart app. It would be a fully cooperative game with an intelligent AI opponent. Sooner or later Some game is going to do it and I will buy it.

[@Willow_Ufg]

Really neat idea, you should write to FFG (in case you didn't).

[@ohbeone]

They are doing that to some extent with xcom the board game. Look it up on fantasy flight's website. An app controls the alien ships.

[@BobaGabe1]

ohbeone From my understanding XCOM is not a miniature skirmish / dungeon crawler type game. It is more of a higher up, abstracted strategy type game. I’m looking for a game where the Dungeon Master role is played by a smart device and all the players work together to try and beat the computer.

[@Monkeyb00y]

Descent has one. And now Star Wars Imperial Assault has one now as well. The App is the DM. I got SWIA just for that reason. That and it was on sale at $50. :) Enjoy!

[@patleaf2432]

@@BobaGabe1 gloomhaven with gloomy companion is pretty darn close to that

[@ramonosuke]

I should really stop watching reviews...another game I might have to just pick up

[@lufia22]

Wow, never used a phone on my camera before.

[@oddreal.]

I have a fundamental issue with this... I guess you could call "hybrid game". Nowadays you use computers and mobile devices all the time. I'm a programmer and I play pc and video games which means about 8-14 hours screen time per day. So to me playing board games is a welcomed change of pace. You don't need electricity, just sit down with your friends, have a laugh, chuck some dice. The app feels very gimmicky and out of place. The game itself looks great and the mechanics seem to work well but it won't find its way on my shelf because of the mobile app.

[@gaozhi2007]

Totally, totally AGREE. What happens when they stop supporting this app in ten years? Can't play. What happens in ten years when I want to play Cosmic Encounters, Twilight Imperium or Eclipse? Still will be playing them when I am 80 years old.

[@F__1]

i guess you are wrong. even if this app will be not supported, company published the code vs random puzzles algorythm. Then people creates many other analogy apps. Even game creators wrote in solution that the algorythm is simple, so we can code it again for sure. The last option is the extra player as a master of alchemy. Always an option exist, only determination determines how we want to find it (Let's look on many reReleases old games in apps nowadays). Smartfon in this game is a amazing new gadget, nothing else, the interaction, cooperation, eye contact still exist.

[@LettersofVerax]

Lassi Maasalo I can sympathize with using board games for a change of pace, and this game is certainly not for everyone. But I'm not sure how you can conclude that the app is 'out of place' given that it performs an essential function, without which the game would, indeed, be very cumbersome, since it would require a game master to run the analog solutions board. In any case, it's no more 'out of place' in an analog game than any other bookkeeping mechanic, it just does all the work with virtually none of the hassle, akin to using a calculator to do math instead of longhand. In my experience you don't spend an inordinate amount of time staring at the app, anyway, relative to other parts of the game--I spend just as much time trying to parse the results on the deduction sheets or planning future moves on the board as I do keying in ingredients

[@oddreal.]

LettersofVerax Well to me personally it is "out of place" and I'm not saying it doesn't work. I believe it works perfectly with the given mechanics. But. You have a board game with mechanics represented by cubes, tokens, dice etc. These are all physical objects that you can hold in your hand, it's relatively easy for everyone to understand how the rules and mathematics work behind them. Now in this game, among the physical components, you have an app that you use to input X and it will output Y. Boom. You don't have a clear understanding how the app really works because you haven't programmed it. You just have to assume it gives you the right answer. And I understand that you can study/use the analogue board which I think is more of a fallback than an option. Imagine this the other way around: You have a computer RPG where you can craft potions. Instead of displaying the crafting result immediately the game will ask you to insert a result code from a reference booklet contained in the game box. That would feel pretty out of place to me...

[@LettersofVerax]

Lassi Maasalo Most people don't know how their electronics work--if you used a game-master you'd have to trust them to be accurate, as well; though I actually disagree that players can't know how the app works, since the analog solutions board actually maps out the same logic the app uses to determine those solutions. It isn't as simple as a understanding a dice roll, sure, but it isn't terribly arcane either. IMO, the hypothetical only holds water if you've already made up your mind about keeping the digital and the analogue completely separate. IMO, introducing analog into the digital realm is more out of place than introducing digital into the analog. The consequences, as you've actually demonstrated, are very different--the former installs barriers, the latter removes them (with respect to mechanics). Ultimately, as you say, it comes down to preference. I have no quarrel with that: it if isn't for you, it isn't for you. But if it's a matter of preference, mine usually lean towards the possibilities opened by adding digital elements to board games. If the hobby is going to evolve, it'll need to exploit those possibilities anyway; of course I don't want the digital to become omnipresent, and maybe Alchemists isn't the best implementation of it, but my hope is that the digital can function as a supplement to the analogue in order to actually *enhance* the analogue game experience. Overly idealistic? Probably. : )

[@otirb14]

Hi! I've just have a question, related to debunking my seal. Imagine that I atribute one seal with doubt in green alchemical symbol (Green + ?) and also the respective alchemical to a certain ingredient, and that in the next round I conclude that I've hit with my guess, and now i'm interested in remove my doubt seal (Green plus ?) and replace it for one Gold-starred seal. The problem concerns the fact that even managing to disprove my theory by playing the action "debunking", it's impossible to show that any one of the alchemicals are wrong, because they are all right! I would be grateful if anyone could explain me how to replace a seal by another , without being able to prove that the alchemical is wrong. It is a game of slow understanding, but addictive! Best Regards!

[@2dTones]

You can only remove a seal by debunking, I'm afraid. There's no way for you to get a starred seal on that theory. You'll just have to place them elsewhere - each player has 5 iirc (2 gold, 3 silver)

[@silverfang6668]

+Hugo Brito You have the option of debunking any theory, even your own.

[@staciehaden8888]

This looks very enticing! I would love it, but my kids won't be ready for it for about five more years. I AM buying games for Christmas for all my nieces and nephews each year. (Many of these have been decided from your reviews!) Alchemist doesn't seem to be mainstream yet. Maybe I'll find it for Christmas 2015 or 16. Here's hoping.

[@sevenman9672]

Perhaps they're ready for it now.

[@Nouthghule]

That was one of the best feeling component drops I've seen to date !

[@felipone-yt]

Hey Tom, one minor thing you switched (@ 8:16), debunking with publishing a theory field, great review btw

[@TheRealScience86]

Rows go side to side - columns go up and down. Get it together Tom.

[@stacie_everdell]

I love the artwork. Has this game had a reprint recently? And is there a solo variant?

[@bobthebox2993]

I bought the game only a few days ago and it looks the exact same, so don't think it has had a reprint yet. I haven't seen a solo variant of the game. The base game could technically be played alone, where you try to get a highscore, but you're going to miss many of the competition mechanics like competing to sell potions. (I know I'm a few months late, but maybe, you still have some use out of this comment)

[@ikesteroma]

Tom, So if this goes into your collection, what game got the boot?

[@rossdrummond2333]

Damn it Tom! Yet another game you've reviewed that I would love to get my hands on, and no sign of being able to buy it easily at the moment... Maybe a comment on when it might be hitting coolstuffinc in the video info?

[@atcjohn75]

Awesome! Can't wait for this game to come state side.

[@trickykid3000]

am i crazy?? i cant find your through the ages review?

[@davidbator429]

Looks like a great game I would really enjoy, but needing to use an app is a bit off-putting. I know, I know...

[@swagaroniyolonaise]

What if the app isn't updated anymore and doesn't work on an iPhone 10 in 5 years? Game becomes useless?

[@ryanw9123]

If you have a smartphone, you can download the app and as long as you have the charger, you can keep using the same app (until the phone breaks down) without updating it to use the app to play the game. The app doesn't need to be updated once downloaded. Also, in the situation that the makers of the game decide not to provide an updated app for future versions of smartphones (which is highly unlikely), the people at BGG and fans of the game will create one. Ironically, one of the first board games I've played is Nightmare which is a classic example of a game that utilizes the technology at the time to create a fun experience. Back then, people used the argument that what if VHS became obsolete, we can't play Nightmare again. Now, even though VHS is no longer a viable technology to have, you can still use the uploaded videos on youtube to play the game; if history has taught us anything, if there's a will, there's a way.

[@Syncopator]

Ryan W I got rid of my smartphone, the data plan was just too expensive for something I didn't use that much.

[@thomascocks9136]

As he said it has a method to pay the game without an app...

[@koshi6505]

I'd like a card game version of this without all the overhead setup. Reduce the worker placement to a single mechanic.

[@adrianpop4809]

I don't think the deduction itself is interesting enough to warrant a simpler context. The game is very good as it is.

[@joshmartin2744]

That game is called Cluedo, or Clue if you're in america.

[@tobein123]

4:21 The phone on your camera or the camera on your phone? :P

[@danielcoore8473]

Great review of what seems to be a good game. Thanks Tom. I wondered whether it might have been too heavy for your tastes.

[@manjulaguneratne3808]

My must buy game from Essen :D waiting till it hits my FLGS in Canada!

[@GioiaFede]

so, can i play this game even without the app?

[@bobthebox2993]

Wow, 3 years without reply? Yes you can, but you'll need an extra person to be the gamemaster. The gamemaster can do the same thing the phone does, but they will know all the element-ingredient combinations, so won't be able to play (as the whole point of the game is figuring out the element-ingredient combinations)

[@manojgowda8195]

@@bobthebox2993 hey Bob I'm looking forward to buy is that worth buying?

[@bobthebox2993]

@@manojgowda8195 It depends on who you plan on playing this with. If you have a group of friends who enjoy complex games, then yeah, it's a good buy. If you plan to play it with your family that is only familiar with games like monopoly and colonists of catan, then they'll probably struggle too much for it to be enjoyable.

[@Urasawa92]

Wonderful review!

[@cmelo4757]

Thank you.

[@longlivefelix]

I'm looking forward to the new expansion on Essen 2015 :D

[@makoulee7454]

Great game!

[@rileymcphee9429]

The game feels overly complicated to me. I don't know, I prefer elegance in board games and feel like sometimes designers will bog down their games with excessive items and things.

[@wazansal6230]

The game is SOOOOO expensive

[@bexarath]

Not much fun for those of us that don't own a smart phone, in other words. :/ Shame, it seems interesting otherwise.

[@Saru5000]

Does someone in your group have a smartphone or tablet?

[@fredrikbexborn6075]

Sean Gerow I mostly play games at home with my wife, so no. There's also a gaming club I sometimes go to, but since that often means different people each time it means having to download and install the app each time I play. It's just not worth the trouble for me; when I buy a boardgame, I expect to be able to enjoy it fully without tech requirements. It would have been a lot simpler if they had just made a purely digital game in the first place. Probably cheaper too.

[@jasonfurnivall9107]

There is also a web version of the app at the czechgames website.

[@iRonth88]

Your loss. The game is great. And if you can't afford a smartphone I would recommend buying less games until you can afford one.

[@GamingMansion]

The game feels to random to me. Someone may mix 4 random ingredients and already pin down the right solution to publish a theory because they're lucky while you can mix 8 ingredients and still have no knowledge to publish a theory. Therefore, the former player gets the bonus reputation each round and snawballs to victory. Also, the downtime this game have between each person is terrible... Do not recommend this game. There are many other titles which have less complicated rules while offering more depth at the same time e.g. Photosynthesis.

[@Ecto_Fox]

Just seems gimmicky.

[@userxv]

got bored after 3 minutes...=/

[@deequation4110]

too complicated

[@bjornspindel6249]

Hard pass on app driven games

[@danieldomaschenz]

Rulebook says instead of using the app, someone can play as the game master