I feel like the main reason why King Candy/Turbo works so well is due to the fact that the twist behind it isn't that the good guy was evil all along, but rather The identity of a villan is the main twist of the character and the fact that King Candy was a jerk from the very start and right at the very end, so he has more than enough time for being the villan
@CriticalMaster95 Жыл бұрын
To be fair, King Candy did get progressively darker as the story progressed. He started off as a selfish but comical jerk and slowly transitioned into a psychopathic murderer until he was revealed to be Turbo. Alan Tudyk (King Candy/Turbo's voice actor) was actually surprised at how progressively dark the character became throughout the film's development. But yes, King Candy was pretty much bad from the get-go so he's not a twist villain in the traditional sense.
@supertrike5893 Жыл бұрын
@@CriticalMaster95 that's what makes him unique compare to other 2010s Disney villans
@eeveeofalltrades4780 Жыл бұрын
@@CriticalMaster95he's a twist villain in that he's even more evil than we initially thought
@orangeslash1667 Жыл бұрын
@@CriticalMaster95 Fun Fact: King Candy's voice is based on the Mad Hatter from Alice and Wonder Land.
@graylykan2739 Жыл бұрын
Reminds me of Judge Doom's reveal at the end of Roger Rabbit, in that we can tell both of them are evil or untrustworthy, but their true identities serve as the REAL twists at the end of their respective films. King Candy is actually Turbo, and Judge Doom is not only a Toon, but the Toon that murdered Eddie's brother.
@GabePlaysYT Жыл бұрын
What's genius about Rourke's character is that he isn't really a twist villain. When Milo meets with him and the crew, he has this puffed up vision of science, discovery, and fun adventure. He assumes the best in everyone and we warm up to the crew as Milo finally starts to befriend them. But even when they become friends, it doesn't change that Milo doesn't really know them. Rourke and the crew already have a previous history of camaraderie and stealing: They were ALWAYS going to try and steal the Heart of Atlantis. It's not that they are twist villains. They were ALWAYS villains, but Milo just never caught on.
@tomnorton4277 Жыл бұрын
The crew was also very open with Milo about their motivations. When he asked them why they were on the mission, all of them said "money". They were never hiding anything from him. Even Rourke treated the whole mission as a professional endeavour first and a thrilling adventure second. He never pretended that he had any motivation besides getting paid.
@lunerblade13 Жыл бұрын
Saying they always had plans to steal the heart may be a little extreme because A) they had no real idea of what they were going to take only that it was “big shiny and gonna make them all rich”. And B) they didn’t expect anyone to still be alive down in Atlantis so would their act still have been considered a crime if their was no one to steal down their. To them this was all just a job for them with added complications of the living Atlantians.
@elduquecaradura1468 Жыл бұрын
@@lunerblade13 I guess they had an idea for the Diary that the ruins conserved a relic so valuable that make it worth several fortunes on it's own, as you said: no idea that was, no idea were living people
@SagemaGrindset1894 Жыл бұрын
Well said 👏
@lucyandecember2843 Жыл бұрын
o.o
@Can_O_Crayola Жыл бұрын
The weird thing is, Hans could've worked. He shows genuine care and concern for the townspeople of Arendelle. He's shown doing his part to keep the peace and calm down the turmoil while Anna is away. He sees firsthand several times just what Elsa is capable of. Have Hans fall for the same paranoia that the others do. That he legitimately grows to believe that Elsa is a threat to the people of her home, and that the only way to save Arendelle is to kill Elsa. Combined with the realization that Anna would never let them do that to her sister, he makes the wrong decision. Out of fear, he decides that to save Arendelle, he has to let Anna, who he truly does love, freeze and Elsa die so that he can protect the nation from its own princesses. He shows the full extent of what fearmongering and paranoia can do to people, and his compromised judgment leads him to abandon the girl he genuinely fell in love with to a terrible fate. It's a powerful lesson to Elsa that making drastic, rash decisions out of fear is dangerous and hurts others. It would play very well into the theme of Elsa being frightened of her own potential, and for an even more powerful moment when Anna sacrifices everything to save her sister from Hans. It validates the seemingly genuinely friendly and caring persona he carries throughout 3/4 of the movie, it validates his efforts to honor Anna's request to protect her home while she's gone, and it gives the movie a "villain" without making it some stupid twist of "awktually i was the evils the whole time huehue". He becomes the antagonist out of circumstance and fear, not because he showed up with evil intent from the start. All they had to do to make a "twist" villain work was just pay attention to the themes they were putting across in the writing and, you know, actually make use of them.
@fairystail1 Жыл бұрын
Heck you could also just make it clear that he only likes Anna because she is a princess, but otherwise he seems somewhat okay. So when he goes from 'im just trying to marry into royalty' to 'yeah im killing you fuckers and putting myself on the throne' it can still be dramatic and a bit of a twist.
@katherinec2759 Жыл бұрын
Ooh, this is good!
@FrostyLPS26 Жыл бұрын
I love this twist. And hey, Nimona kinda got that with its message and the villain even though she was revealed midpoint in the movie.
@artbytesia11 ай бұрын
That would have been so much better! You better be listening, Disney! And if you are, I actually hope you're feeling ashamed of yourself!
@Rae081410 ай бұрын
Yeah. It’d make more sense to show that he does actually love Anna, but slowly has become so blinded and corrupted by the fear that surrounds him and his promise to protect Arendelle, that he begins to think that killing Elsa and Anna is the safest bet to end the Winter, even if he doesn’t have any confirmation that Elsa’s death would end Winter, than just “I’m EvIl NoW!!1!”
@redtailarts101 Жыл бұрын
I think King Candy worked so well for several reasons 1. We always kinda knew he was up to something, unless he managed to fool you like he fooled Ralph for a short moment, but we didn't really get it confirmed he was evil until later on in the movie. 2. He has layers of twists. First he's racist against glitches, then he's actually just trying to protect her, but actually he lied and he's the whole reason Vanellope is a glitch, then he's Turbo, then we find out Vanellope was the original ruler so he took over the game from her. 3. His design doesn't fit in with the other racers when you actually look at them
@kaiserdrakonius5702 Жыл бұрын
If you listen to the announcer naming off the racers you'll notice that when he says King Candy's name it sounds a little more strained than the others, like Turbo is trying to mimic his voice.
@wafflebroz Жыл бұрын
It would be an interesting little piece if one of the human gamers had said “Oh, we don’t have him at my arcade” or “I’ve never seen him before” Just a nod to the random racer roster as well as a tiny note that this machine is unique
@Aardydarling Жыл бұрын
I think it adds that people kept talking about turbo, and it seems like it’s just a warning for rogue characters but then you find out that it’s king candy especially since he was a racer
@wafflebroz Жыл бұрын
@@Aardydarling Chekhov’s Gun
@phousefilms13 күн бұрын
I am a little embarrassed to admit that I did fall for King Candy's lie about Vanellopes potential fate. I think that a subtle, but a good hint of his nature was how he quickly changes the subject as Ralph mocks him for having a pink castle(with King Candy saying it's "salmon")as the pink and white design matches Vanellopes princess dress.
@thesardonicpig3835 Жыл бұрын
Silver works not only as a sympathetic/twist villain, but as a completely morally grey character - and I really can't think of any other Disney character as grey as Silver (let me know if you can think of one!). It goes without saying that Silver is an all-around lovable villain, but the film doesn't go all the way to claim that he has a heart of gold. It actually leaves Silver's morality cleverly ambiguous. Throughout the film, he doesn't do anything unforgivably evil - but only because the plot doesn't let him. As a result, there are several scenes where you don't know what Silver would have done. Would he actually have pulled the trigger on Amelia and Delbert, if Jim had refused him the map? (While he most certainly loves Jim, there's no indication that he cares about anyone else.) What would he have done if Flint's ship hadn't tipped over before he could reach Jim in the finale? He was approaching him pretty menacingly, and you don't know just how blinded he was by his greed in that moment (if the book is anything to go by, it would have been looking very grim for Jim). At the same time, you're free to assume that Silver's bark is worse than his bite, and he wouldn't have overstepped the line even if the plot had let him. In terms of morality, he's completely unfathomable. I honestly wish Disney would experiment with its villains more - there's a whole world between the irredeemable monster and the flimsy misunderstood bad boy with a heart of gold. Silver is the perfect example. Sympathetic villains don't have to be toothless and tame from the beginning in order to be available for a redemption arc (Silver revels in his villainy from start to finish, except when it comes to Jim), and nor does a sympathetic villain require a sob story to explain their character (for all you know, Silver is a pirate because he damn well loves it, and that's all you need). Your sympathetic villain doesn't have to be a tortured soul. He can just be an all-around nice person with a great sense of humour. Who just happens to be a swashbuckler.
@charlessapp1835 Жыл бұрын
By the end of the movie, you could say that Silver had a heart of silver. If I had to guess, I would say that Silver's youth was similar to Jim's and that is why Silver took to Jim. He saw himself in Jim.
@7evenseas975 Жыл бұрын
Ironic that silver is a grey color
@lucyandecember2843 Жыл бұрын
o.o
@diddles3383 Жыл бұрын
This analysis of Silver is top tier, he's one of my favourite villains of all time!
@thesardonicpig3835 Жыл бұрын
@@charlessapp1835 Thank you for making the "heart of silver" pun, I was trying so hard to avoid it XD I think Silver's great strength, which he helps Jim to learn, is being true to himself. He pursues his goal regardless of whether the world approves or disapproves. Jim's initial complex is his urge to provoke by doing the opposite of whatever is considered good or respectable, even if it's to his own detriment - Silver, meanwhile, has no need to provoke, because what the world thinks is perfectly irrelevant to him. In the end, he just sets his priorities straight - just like Jim.
@lollybirdy Жыл бұрын
The Hans one came so out of left field. It felt like a last minute twist shoe horned in. Like I genuinely thought he cared for her.
@Alucard2091 Жыл бұрын
Weird Duke motive (wealth) went to Hans.
@bificommander7472 Жыл бұрын
I seem to be in the minority, but I liked Hans as a concept, although I admit the execution wasn't perfect. Many of his early actions that are typical for vanilla Disney princes actually did make sense in the context of his goals. That said, the discrepancy between pre and post twist were a bit too big. Specifically him defusing the situation between Elsa and the Duke's men didn't fit with a realistic path to his goals, while his gloating post twist was again at odds with his goal. I'm guessing Disney didn't want Anna to kiss the wrong guy, but it would have made more sense for him to try and save her and marry her publicly before usurping the throne. Kissing her, finding out it doesn't work, then admitting he doesn't actually love her and trying to let her freeze to death and claim to have married makes more sense.
@Zarolea Жыл бұрын
I read a theory that the Trolls places a spell on Hans to make him evil so that Christoff would be able to marry Anna and have a chance at the crown. Notice how eager they are to get them hitched when we meet them. I run with that. It makes the most sense given Hans conduct throughout the movie, up until the end.
@EChacon Жыл бұрын
Not to mention Hans becoming the villain happen at a later stage during the development of Frozen when the filmmakers decided to have Elsa changed from a villain to a protagonist and that was around mid-late 2012 when that happened.
@Koopalingfan Жыл бұрын
@@Alucard2091 The Duke should’ve been the villain.
@kaytlinjustis5643 Жыл бұрын
Personally, Belleweather could've worked, simply by showing small acts of silent defiance; glaring hatred at the Mayor, before returning to her 'sunny personality' to the main characters, who hired her simply for a vote, and still treats her like dirt and leaves all the work to her! Small things that tell the audience there's SOMETHING wrong with her, but they never did! Even evidence of sheep hoofprints would've worked. Not made sense at first, but it would've worked! ^^
@jamie1602 Жыл бұрын
These are in the movie. They don't have hoofprints. They go further; a sticky note with her name and cellphone on it. She does explain her resentment to the mayor. Her entire hatred of "predator" animals is because the mayor just can't get her name right. And that sticky note isn't the only smoking gun. You have to rewatch the entire movie to notice she's been pulling the strings the entire time. Zootopia isn't even part of my top Disney movies, hardly so, but I caught all these on the first watch through. That's why the Nighthowler associates are rams. They're animals Bellweather "trusts". I pine for the days when Disney knew how to write scripts but I hate to tell you this... THIS SHIT AIN'T IT.
@finalfroggitapproaches6418 Жыл бұрын
They needed her to crack before the reveal. Even if it isn’t “glaring hatred” it needs to be some kind of visible stress or tiredness. Like her terrible office with her mug that says #1 Dad crossed out to say “Assistant Mayor” she needed to take a breath for composure or something there. Like she’s actively fighting to keep her sunny disposition up, rather than that being her personality by default.
@error-try-again-later Жыл бұрын
Or just a hint that she knows what's going on in the city beyond some side character-tier exposition.
@Sinsystems Жыл бұрын
@@finalfroggitapproaches6418 Agreed, I'd probably had her mask slip slightly and have a moment where she gets genuinely angry in private with Judy (although nothing outright anti-predator just "I have a terrible boss" anger) before calming down or Judy comforting her. Basically a moment which the audience can interpret as an abused employee justifiably venting for a second.
@michaeljenner2325 Жыл бұрын
You literally see the phone number for the other sheep villain on her desk.
@kingagrabowska9366 Жыл бұрын
Let me guess why they worked: 1. There are clues to them being a villain, so when they ultimately betray our heroes it doesn't feel like it came out of nowhere and the movie creators didn't lie to the audience. cough Hans cough 2. They actually have the time to be the villain. Instead of getting reviled and defeated in 5 minutes. 3. They are consistent so the character before and after the twist doesn't feel like completely different people. 4. The twist actually being surprising would be nice. The villain is defeated but we still have a half hour of a movie to go. I wonder who can be the true villain. Could it be the only other character with any dialogue?
@cosmicspacething3474 Жыл бұрын
Hans had a few lines that were small foreshadowing. Callihoun is the one with the least foreshadowing.
@carlosgarcia-pd4wq Жыл бұрын
i feel sorry for hans. because the original story elsa was the villain. but the higher up change and the re-write was late.
@kingagrabowska9366 Жыл бұрын
@@carlosgarcia-pd4wq If they wanted the massage ''Don't jump into relationship too quickly.'' they could have Hans kiss Anna and not working because she didn't love him anymore. I'll just watch Sinbad and Legend of seven seas.
@aikordcz4424 Жыл бұрын
I saw a comment on another video about twist villains, it was: A good twist villain works if people who see the movie don't say "I didn't see that coming" but instead say "I should have see that coming" And I think that's mostly true
@rachelyoungdesteny9295 Жыл бұрын
Elsa suits villainy she could just become villain and have let it go jeez
@oshkeet Жыл бұрын
"Cool motive, Still Murder" i think is a great rule of thumb in this era lately of fandom completely pushing for irredeemable villains. Lately people forget you can totally make a villain's *situation* sympathetic (even in a selfish way you'd never admit to in public) while still making the *execution* of whatever choices they made to fix those things completely distasteful and needing to be stopped.
@andrewgreeb916 Жыл бұрын
People tend to forget that you can definitely empathize with a villain, but will never sympathize with them. We can get why they are doing what they are doing, but that never excuses their actions.
@aerodynamiccow3597 Жыл бұрын
Mr. Freeze being an example of it whenever he isn't being too flanderized. He's been a member of multiple supervillain groups, killed countless people, and even worked with Black Mask but we still know WHY he does it being extremely depressing with Nora. It doesn't help that every time Nora was cured or saved she turned out to be genuinely evil or much worse than him
@yasininn76 Жыл бұрын
Lmao that B99 quote
@real_abender Жыл бұрын
Does Thanos count here? He wanted to solve universal overpopulation because he saw what it did to his planet, but obviously his method of doing so is horrific.
@aerodynamiccow3597 Жыл бұрын
@@real_abender His motive is only that benevolent in the MCU for the most part, he genuinely wants to cause as much death as possible because he got one-upped both by doctor doom and deadpool in his girlfriend Death's eyes
@TDArulesclub4 Жыл бұрын
King Candy/Turbo's reveal was so good because up till his reveal, even when you THINK you already know he's the villain, his *reasoning* for doing the 'villainous' actions he does (forbid Vanollepe from racing, etc) actually MAKES SENSE when he explains it to Ralph; If she races, the game glitches on the player and the game gets unplugged, killing the game and herself. And yet even when he shows his true colors of how evil he is, he gives another whiplash by revealing he was Turbo the whole time that used coding to hide himself in plain sight. ON TOP OF THAT, once you think he'd dead eaten by the cybug, he comes back in a 'final boss level' face off in his own virus form, which was animated so creepily and flawless, toying with Ralph and Vanollepe's lives that just showed off just how merciless and evil he really is.
@suraivase72857 ай бұрын
Something I find interesting about Turbo's fake-out death scene at the hands of the Cybug is that the rest of the arcade didn't know if Turbo was still alive untill he was revealed in the race against Penelope, if I remember right he was assumed to have died in one of the two unplugged games. Him "dying" again at the hands of the Cybug is fitting as the Cybugs mirror turbo a bit. Like Turbo, the first Cybug seemingly died at the start of the movie after Ralph crash lands in Sugar Rush, and like Turbo the Cybugs end up resurfacing later significantly less dead than initially thought. They're both invasive elements that care little about where they end up and how their actions affect others, both complete their objectives without everyone else being the wiser, Turbo altering the game's code and the Cybugs growing their numbers underground. The fact that he later calls himself "the most powerful virus in the arcade" makes me think that he's realized how similarly destructive he and the Cybugs are.
@WillScarlet16 Жыл бұрын
I just want to point out, it wasn't Disney who came up with the twist for Long John Silver, it was RL Stevenson - that's exactly how he's written in the original Treasure Island, he's an ambiguous villain who you can never decide is completely good or completely bad.
@Michael-bn1oi Жыл бұрын
The book, and character within, are not identical.
@LloydTheZephyrian10 ай бұрын
I haven't gotten the chance to read Treasure Island, but I heard that there are some big differences that go beyond "but in space".
@sirjimby71076 ай бұрын
@@LloydTheZephyrianI mean, in the movie Silver is more likable just in general. In the books, silver is a much more complex and complicated character that you actually feel pretty conflicted about until about the very end. In the end you like him just as much, it’s just a roller coaster of a journey instead of being such an easy change. For reference, Silver is my favorite villain I’ve ever seen or read and has such an enjoyable character arc.
@graylykan2739 Жыл бұрын
I would argue that Judge Doom in Who Framed Roger Rabbit is a twist villain, in a way. Though we are shown he is cruel towards Toons who break the law or annoy him (Dipping the toon shoe, smacking his weasel henchmen around, siccing said weasels on Eddie when he intervenes in the case), we don't know that he is a Toon, and the Toon that killed Teddy Valiant, Eddie's brother. There are small hints of his true identity in the movie if you pay close attention to Christopher Lloyd's exaggerated movements on-screen (and he NEVER blinks), and the time he backs away from spilled Dip when Eddie saved Roger in the bar fight scene, the time Lt. Santino mentions that Doom spread a bunch of Simoleans around Toontown and brought about the election (lining up with Eddie's story to Roger later about how his brother died while pursuing a Toon who stole "a zillion Simoleans") and possibly some other moments. By re-watching it, you'll notice hints about Doom's identity as a Toon you may not have noticed the first time. From the moment Doom is revealed to be a Toon, and the Toon who murdered Eddie's brother, everything clicks. And his performance is terrifying. Next to Turbo, Clayton, and John Silver, Judge Doom is another one of my favorite twist villains. You know he's someone you don't want to mess with, but you don't know just how dangerous he *really* is until the reveal. I miss when Disney knew how to make twist villains work, and when they weren't afraid to take risks. Clayton's death was probably one of the darkest Disney Villain deaths next to Ursula's.
@limespots Жыл бұрын
His cape always flows in the wind too
@hugocastilla3102 Жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say he's a "twist villain" but rather a "villain with a twist"
@error-try-again-later Жыл бұрын
He also knows an awful lot about toons for a human who supposedly can't stand them. And he acts a little bit more manic during the "shave and a haircut" scene as if the song is having an effect on him, too.
@Boundwithflame23 Жыл бұрын
Not only backing away from the spilled Dip but also putting on a glove when dipping the shoe. Which, from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know his true identity, that act would seem innocent enough.. He’s just putting on PPE because he has to stick his hand into what is essentially paint thinner. Then you look back at that part in hindsight after the reveal and realize the glove also prevented his idenity from being exposed.
@mackenziewoloschuk7375 Жыл бұрын
Ooh, that's actually really cool. But the most annoying thing: Disney *does* know how to make a twist villain. *In their TV Shows.* King Andrias from Amphibia comes to mind very easily.
@QilleWolf Жыл бұрын
Every time twist villains get brought up I think of a thousand different ways Hans could have been done better. Like for example, what if he kisses Anna but that doesn’t break the curse, they realize that they can’t be in love because they’ve known each other for two days, but he still really cares about her so decides to try and save her by killing Elsa, and THAT’S how he goes villain without fundamentally changing into a completely different character. Maybe he reluctantly teams up with the Duke to try and save the girl, y’know. Idk, all this goes to show once again how amazing Treasure Planet and Atlantis are. Silver is still my all time favorite Disney villain.
@andrewgreeb916 Жыл бұрын
Hans is still a good guy, just misguided, that's a great way to run a villain.
@ltb1345 Жыл бұрын
That's how it should've been.
@kittypeanut4102 Жыл бұрын
I actually like the idea of him being a villian, because his backstory (that isn't even in the movie...) shows us he has a lot of brothers and the attention was never given to him, so he wasn't *ever* intended to gain power. I can see why someone line him would want to make a name for himself, specially when his own family bullied him and he hadn't ever experienced love, here's the thing though: they didn't do it right. I think that he could have worked right as a morally grey character, like this: he _does_ care about Anna, he wanted to convince himself it was for power, but that wasn't completely right, so now he was confused and had to make a choice: gain the power for himself by betraying her?, or listening to his heart and not betraying the only person that showed him care? Idk, i just like his backstory and i think he could've been a complex character.
@QilleWolf Жыл бұрын
@@kittypeanut4102 I agree completely! The version of Hans you described is so juicy, I wish I had seen that in the movie instead! Like I said, there are SO MANY WAYS they could have done him right, and full villain is another great example. It’s like Disney tried to have their cake and eat it too.
@kittypeanut4102 Жыл бұрын
@@QilleWolf yeah, what they did to him wasn't it, they just wanted the shock factor and that left us with a character with wasted potential
@Clefiea Жыл бұрын
I had always thought of two better ways they could have taken Hans: 1. Hans is not a twist villain and actually wanted to save Anna, but the realization is that their love is actually only at a very superficial level (which was already hinted at pretty well in their duet song together) and so a kiss failed, and they would need to find something else to cure her. It would also fit better with that part of the movie's messaging/theme of "you can't marry someone you only just met" and eventually Anna could've found out she has better chemistry with Kristoff anyway. 2. Hans is a twist villain and only joined the mission to bring back Elsa so that he could deliberately sabotage it. Attempt to have Elsa killed in her ice palace and either have it framed as an "accident" or convince the rest of the kingdom that she had truly become a monster and couldn't be stopped, and Anna would be crowned as queen instead. By this point the audience at least knows that Hans is the villain(whether or not it takes time for the rest of the characters to catch on) and had enough time to do villainish things, and it still fits in with Hans' motive of having his own kingdom regardless of any means possible. Though of course his plans inevitably fail, Elsa survives somehow and Hans is caught and dealt with. Though seriously, Disney could have pretty much done anything with just some effort and it probably would've been better.
@lotsofspots Жыл бұрын
3. Hans only became villainous at the exact moment the magical trolls sang "Get the fiancé out of the way and the whole thing will be fixed!"
@andrewgreeb916 Жыл бұрын
@@lotsofspots so the trolls did it, knew we couldn't trust them.
@andrewgreeb916 Жыл бұрын
I would have preferred hans just focused on saving ana and by extension his opportunity to be king, the fact executing elsa meets both criteria is just bonus points.
@Rexy_THE_T-REX Жыл бұрын
Woah buddy thats a lot of comment
@Asrael-xy7uk Жыл бұрын
"Attempt to have Elsa killed in her ice palace and either have it framed as an accident" is literally what he did :-) Like, he looked towards the to the ceiling as he ran towards the one shooting at Elsa and then aimed the crossbow towards the chandelier hanging above, which then fell down on top of Elsa. Unfortunately Disney was so focused on surprising the audience, that you literally have to go frame-by-frame to see it :-)
@MatsuyoRific Жыл бұрын
It's so refreshing seeing someone acknowledging that twist villains aren't inherently bad, and can be done in interesting ways.
@Rainjojo Жыл бұрын
Treasure planet will forever be my top film from Disney. A grey character like silver demonstrates that Disney can have a sympathetic villain and turn them into better person, unlike the writing for modern villains of Disney justifying their wrongs like namari. Even though his technological aspect fixated him to focus on the treasure, he was willing to let go of everything he’s worked for to save Jim and become more humane. Him using his crew to kill off the captain and the rest isn’t redeemable and nor does he justify it, he did what he must to reach his goal and only changed after building his bond with Jim to the point his humanity won in the end.
@1992disney Жыл бұрын
And it'll always be my top favorite Disney film as well.
@diddles3383 Жыл бұрын
TP really is the best Disney film with their best villain
@1992disney Жыл бұрын
@@diddles3383 Without a single doubt.
@Beregorn88 Жыл бұрын
And the reason is that it wasn't written by Disney, but it was the "space retrofuture" version of Stevenson's Treasure Island...
@gladiatordragon9219 Жыл бұрын
Can you really give Disney credit for that one when Treasure Planet is simply Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island, but in space?
@brennatargaryen Жыл бұрын
The thing about Callaghan/Yokai imo is that he actually had the potential to be a pretty good twist villain. For starters, they should have foreshadowed it more; sure we got the portal footage the kids found, but even some subtle gestures could’ve gone a long way. He seemed antagonistic towards Krei but they could’ve subtly focused on that just a bit more-maybe implied that he was up to something before the building started on fire. Have Hiro run into him alone after the presentation and confrontation with Krei and he seems a little off, maybe? Like he’s contemplating something tough? And then the infamous “that was his mistake” scene… I think they’d have done better showing that he was actually upset. Show that he killed one of his favorite students and he regrets it; have him react to Hiro telling him that Tadashi went to save him not by immediately snapping back, but with actual shock for a moment. Like the thought never crossed his mind, and then a hint of guilt that he not only killed an innocent but one who cared enough about him to go in to save him. They could have then played his response as some desperate attempt to justify getting Tadashi caught in the crossfire to himself. Convince himself that he couldn’t have predicted that; there’s nothing he could have changed about it (because denial is easier than confronting the fact that this whole revenge plot is mad) Following that they could’ve gone further by showing us that he’s now slipping into a sort of sunk cost fallacy-he’s gotten people killed for this already, he can’t turn back now! That moment of hesitation he had when Krei was trying to talk him down would have hit so much harder if he’d already shown pause over the damage he’s done This wouldn’t have made him the best twist villain ever-not by a long shot-but it would’ve made it work better and made him seem more authentic, I think
@Boomsnipz Жыл бұрын
THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT HIM BRO NO ONE ELSE HAS
@justzombie7594Сағат бұрын
Or, if it REALLY was an accident, he could have been genuinely depressed by Tadashi's death, seeing it as his daughter's "death", and based on some of his own (more or less plausible) ideas, he REALLY decided that Krei had set it all up. Just like the main characters. But in the end, it would have turned out, just like the main characters, that while Krei is not a good person and is still guilty of his daughter's accident, he was not involved in Tadashi's death, and Callaghan jumped to conclusions. But he's already too angry to stop and admit it, unlike Hiro.
@NightwinSeraph Жыл бұрын
John Silver to me will always be the most human, most real antagonist in a Disney movie. He shows how someone who is villainous is not always evil by nature. Sure he did alot of bad things in his life. But in the end... he gave up his lifelong dream to save a boy he hadn't known long. Who he had bonded with, and who had even attacked and injured him. Silver went from dirty sailor, to inspiring father figure, to villain, and finally to the reformed father that Jim never really had. All in the span of one movie, and it never really felt rushed despite the time constraints of the movie. I think alot of it working is that Silver is always presented as good at heart, despite the bad things he does. Despite being a tough pirate captain... he finds a soft spot for a troubled boy. Taking Jim under his wing in the beginning to keep him out of the way, and earnestly coming to bond with and feel like a father to him. Teaching him some discipline, life skills. Not to mention that when Scroop makes Jim feel like he messed up so bad he got someone killed and relapsed into feeling worthless and letting his anger build up.... Silver showed some true, human, compassion. He inspired Jim and turned all those bottled up emotions into tears... and despite the look he knew it would give him.. he embraced Jim. Some words from other movies I think fit John " He may have been your father boy, but he wasnt your daddy" and " You are bad guy, but you not bad guy"
@Rexy_THE_T-REX Жыл бұрын
Wait witch movie is he from?
@NightwinSeraph Жыл бұрын
@@Rexy_THE_T-REX Treasure Planet
@scrubbingdoubles8585 Жыл бұрын
Jesus loves you. So much so that He chose to die and rise again for your sins. He wants to save you from them and eternity in Hell, all you have to do is ask Him to and trust in Him, and you will live with Him forever in paradise. John 3:16-17 Romans 8:35-39 Luke 23:42-43
@Phantom1768510 ай бұрын
@@scrubbingdoubles8585 Bro, this is a video about twist villains. Jesus does ABSOLUTELY not fit here.
@hondaaccord1399 Жыл бұрын
I feel like we need to clarify the difference between a villain who _is a twist_ and a villain who _contains_ a twist. The difference between "Woah, Hans is the bad guy??" And "Woah, King Candy is the bad guy but that was kind of obvious but WOAH HE'S ALSO TURBO???"
@vetarlittorf1807 Жыл бұрын
I don't think Silver was a villain per se. Like Severus Snape, he's too complex to categorize. We know he's not a hero, because he's a criminal who robs and plunders but he's not a villain either, because he's kind and merciful. However, it's suggested that Silver was never a true pirate, but simply obsessed with treasure to the point where he operates outside the law. And his bloodthirst is only a facade to keep the pirates from killing him. His redemption stems primarily from seeing himself in Jim, a delinquent who needs guidance. Bonding with him made him see where his obsession has led him and he can't bear seeing Jim making the same mistake. Which sets up his epiphany where he sees that there are some things worth more than an entire planet of gold and jewels.
@thesardonicpig3835 Жыл бұрын
I'm frankly amazed how they were able to craft such a complex character with such a simple villain motivation and with absolutely no "tragic backstory". I would say Silver _is_ a "true" pirate, simply because he's driven by greed and adventure and doesn't mind deceiving and endangering honest people in the process. However, he's not sadistic like Scroop - he doesn't enjoy killing or hurting people for the sake of it, he just doesn't mind doing so if it clears his path to the treasure (in all fairness, you don't really know how Silver feels about killing or hurting people other than Jim). I absolutely agree about him realising his obsession for what it is - and it's so ironic considering his advice to Jim. Silver learns NOT to stick to it, no matter the squalls - he changes course with the wind.
@vetarlittorf1807 Жыл бұрын
@@thesardonicpig3835 I mean, he saved Morph's life, which implies that he is merciful.
@thesardonicpig3835 Жыл бұрын
@@vetarlittorf1807 Completely forgot about Morph! Yes, he's definitely shown to have a strong nurturing side. He just picks the people he cares about. That also agrees pretty well with the book, where Morph is a parrot and Silver also has a wife he goes back to in the end.
@Beregorn88 Жыл бұрын
Have you ever heard of Stevenson's Treasure Island?
@FabBrigade Жыл бұрын
Characters like that are why we have "anti-hero" and "anti-villain." Those terms describe characters who lean one way or the other, but aren't within the area enough to be hero or villain.
@Prototype-357 Жыл бұрын
I see Atlantis and Treasure Planet in the thumbnail I click. In all seriousness though I think the decline of twist villains is just a symptom of Disney losing faith in their villains in general, like it was the next step in their plan to get rid of villains altogether. First they did twist villain pretty well, then they did these villains badly then they made the villain be generational trauma. I'm not saying that classic Disney villains are the way to go for every story out there, different stories require different villains, some stories can only be told with generational trauma and some only with a complete monster for a villain, but Disney seems really resistant to create classic villains even if it's detrimental to the story. I know it's been talked about to death (heh) but Puss in Boots The Last Wish managed to juggle three different types of villain in the story perfectly, so Disney really has no excuse.
@BaconNuke Жыл бұрын
You know what I don't like? They took Cruella.. and made her some kinda anti-hero, which just means the modern Cruella can not connect to the crazed dog murderer of the past.. they legit took a classic villain and de-villain-ified her
@Nopeasaurus Жыл бұрын
Look I’m all for the villain being sympathetic or evil or even psychological like generational trauma as long as its written well. Problem is that it isn’t. Disney has gotten lazy, they know their animated films will make millions even if the writing is lackluster. Just pour the budget into the visuals and animation and call it a day. But releasing mediocre film after mediocre film slowly deteriorates their brand. Now their animation is taking a hit, just look at Elemental and Wish, they’re not even released yet and they look dated compared to the last wish, arcane, and into the spiderverse.
@msk-qp6fn Жыл бұрын
I just think writers and directors just got dumb😢😅
@valerierae76 Жыл бұрын
There's that one scene where Kristoff was interrogating Anna about Hans to see if it was true love, but I feel like that should have been done earlier in the movie and done by Hans. I would say to put that scene while they were asking Elsa to get married. Have them ask, then Elsa interrogates Hans about Anna and how much he loves her. There, Hans would say the most on the surface facts about her that was brought up in "Love is an open door" and the most vague things that makes him sound like he really does not know anything about her, but wants to marry her. Elsa then could object, saying that he doesn't know anything about her and Anna could refute by saying Elsa doesn't know anything about her either. Since Hans knows some stuff, she feels like he knows her and that they really are in love, showing something that some people use to manipulate others who felt isolated. I feel like this could've prepared for more about Hans' motivation, make us empathize with Anna more, and make it not a waste of a villain. Then, while Anna was away, spend more time with Hans taking care of the people. Show him taking up the leader role, feeling like he is actually a prince. We know that he is the last in line for his family, so he never felt like he was a leader, he was never fit to be king. Now, he is needed to fill in that role for being King since both of the royal family left is off on the journey. Show him gaining an ego, the realization that he is currently the highest power of the kingdom currently and make that motivate his character to make him be more of a villain. It's still a twist villain because Anna doesn't know this happened, she still thinks that Hans loves her, so when the eventual reveal happens, it's more heartbreaking for her. Also, it reasons out why the other people in the court decided why he is the one to listen to after he declares Anna "dead" because he has proven to be a leader that they can follow. But hey, that's just me.
@SebastianAriza Жыл бұрын
Ngl this is is great! I'm gonna Mandela Effect myself into believing this was the actual movie.
@Nopeasaurus Жыл бұрын
i agree! Revealing small tidbits of Han’s darker nature like his ego would have definitely helped sell his villainy. And a foreign prince, rumored to be engaged to the princess, coming along and winning the people of another country over with his sheer charisma would have been so much fun to watch.
@backupaccount6341 Жыл бұрын
And he could have saved Elsa in her palace in an attempt to convince her to let him marry Anna and when she refuses he then goes on with the plan in the movie.
@artbytesia11 ай бұрын
Isn't it sad how there are like a GAZILLION ideas on KZbin for the Hans twist, and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is BETTER than what we actually got?! My gosh, it's not our job to write the movie FOR Disney!
@zeniabach Жыл бұрын
Treasure Planet is so goddamn underrated and it had an enormous effect on me and my taste in fiction. It's always good to see people talk about it.
@opticalraven1935 Жыл бұрын
I'm glad that it flies under the radar. Imagine how awful treasure planet would be now.
@julianwitkowicz9783 Жыл бұрын
One of the things I recall especially well about watching Frozen when I was younger was how my dad brought our attention to Hans' bravery and selflessness saying that he is like a real fairy tale hero with how he helps the townsfolk and volunteers to go out on a potentially deadly mission in his own...and rewatching all of these scenes I agree with my father completely. He had no real set up as a twist villain
@artbytesia Жыл бұрын
Yeah, it was so poorly-done that even M. Night Shyamalan would shake his head at it.
@msk-qp6fn Жыл бұрын
It was so bad yet some will insist it works
@artbytesia Жыл бұрын
@@msk-qp6fn My mom is one of those people.
@FosukeLordOfError Жыл бұрын
I mean I was expecting him to be a twist villain during love is an open door
@fatcat1414 Жыл бұрын
There seems to be three qualities that every decent twist villain seems to possess at least one of: 1) A thematically fulfilling emotional arc from spending so much time with the protagonists. (Ex: Treasure Planet) 2) The satisfying recontextualization of a piece of info that also explains the villain's motivation. (Ex: Wreck-It Ralph) 3) An effective critique of the real-world inspiration behind the story's genre conventions. Peeling back the romanticization to show an unpleasant reality (Ex: Atlantis)
@joshualowe959 Жыл бұрын
8:20 Yeah! The Duke of Weaselton from Frozen was a suspect being the villain of Frozen because he wanted to kill Elsa because of her dangerous ice powers. But in the end, he really didn't do anything wrong
@tomnorton4277 Жыл бұрын
The Duke was also upset when Hans lied about Anna being killed by Elsa's powers. His immediate response was "her own sister!" which was consistent with his belief that Elsa was a danger to anybody around her. The Duke was a bumbling idiot but he wasn't evil.
@Someone69769 Жыл бұрын
True. I do like the twist villains that work. The bad and forced twist villains make movies worse.
@nerinablais6623 Жыл бұрын
That's just it though, the twist villains who are bad and forced in movies actually exist in real life. In my opinion, Disney is showing us that there are all different kinds of villains in real life. There's the obvious villains, the villains who give subtle hints that they're villains, and then there's the villains who genuinely care about the people they're with only to reveal their true nature completely out of nowhere.
@error-try-again-later Жыл бұрын
@@nerinablais6623 pulling shit out of thin air isn't the same as tricking or manipulating the audience. It's just lazy writing. If you followed those "subtle" bad people around, you'd see cracks in their facade sooner or later. If the villain has enough screentime for their twist to even matter in the first place, their transformation shouldn't come without foreshadowing.
@EChacon Жыл бұрын
I’m a bit surprised you didn’t include nor mentioned Bowler Hat Guy (Michael "Goob" Yagoobian) from Meet The Robinsons in the video. I’d say his backstory and him being a future version of Goob who didn’t let go of the past after loosing the Winning catch, was a well done twist and I say he’s one of Disney’s best Twist Villains alongside King Candy. I also forgot to mention about DOR-15 (Doris) the Robot Bowler Hat, cause when you first saw "her" we thought she was the smart intelligent robot Sidekick to Bowler Hat Guy, until in the final act, DOR-15 was the true evil mastermind.
@Dudeman23rd Жыл бұрын
We stan Bowler Hat Goob in this house
@rosykindbunny1313Ай бұрын
I love Goob, gotta be the best character in the movie
@thdenwheja756 Жыл бұрын
i actually attended a lecture a few years ago by Randy Haycock, the lead animator for Clayton in Tarzan. He was joking because it was a great white hunter stereotype with a pencil mustache and the loudest gun in the story; does that really count as a twist villain? To that end, he decided to just have fun with animating him. If you're wondering why he looks plain NUTS half of his frames, that's why.
@peridotentertainment8287 Жыл бұрын
It's crazy to think that Disney is crappy with their twist villains in recent times, yet in the past they had twist villains that worked wonderfully. You can easily tell the difference between the villains from the early 2000s and the modern twist villains (except King Candy because he was a well written villain). And it makes you wonder why Disney from the Modern era are so bad at making their villains while they had either some characters that SHOULD have been villains, or why even leave those villains in the last minutes of the films? While looking at the villains from the early 2000s, they had a lot of character in them, they are goals that are clear, we are given hints of them being evil or bad, and we get to see some of the villains become something that fits the theme or suits them. Like Clayton becoming a savage and Rourke becoming the crystal that he was after. While characters like Han and Screenslaver having motives that are dumb and make no sense to their character. I'm not sure if this comment makes sense or if anyone has already made a comment like this. But I was just wanting to share my own opinion about twist villains.
@arnoldgreen4278 Жыл бұрын
I think they are trying to replicate what they did before, and rushing it. Plus due to the saturation of twist villains, everyones expecting it.
@peridotentertainment8287 Жыл бұрын
@@arnoldgreen4278 Yeah that would make sense, especially with how last minute some of the twist villains are revealed. I think Bellwether was revealed to be the villain in Zootopia in the like 5 minutes before the end of the movie. Not sure but still.
@orangesilver4568 Жыл бұрын
Shaffrillas Productions said that Invincible had the best twist villain because it was shown early on.
@CaulkMongler Жыл бұрын
Back when Disney cared about artistic integrity.
@papa_squat Жыл бұрын
"Sometimes you give up a few things... Chasing a dream" This quote from Silver in "Treasure Planet" always sticks with me. When he says it, he is directly referencing his cyborg implants. There's a kind of ambiguity about it as well- did he get those parts because of catastrophic injury or because he felt willingly that he needed to sacrifice his own body? As the story progresses you realize the quote refers to more than his implants. He's talking about surrendering any noble part of him that he used to be for the sake of his raw ambition. This informs the internal battle he has over how to treat Jim, at first keeping him at arms length and being cold, but succumbing to the fact that Jim represents the person he used to be, and he doesn't want to be responsible for making Jim into the kind of man he became. Eventually he gives up everything he had sacrificed for because he saw a chance to set things right with Jim.
@shinhikaru11 ай бұрын
King Candy/Turbo is literally Disney's best twist villain ever created. It's because unlike the other twist villains who are at first good then turned into villainy, King Candy/Turbo however was already a villain at the beginning, thus creating a multi layer twists that's just make sense to the main narrative and the actual lore of the movie.
@thedigodragon Жыл бұрын
The best part about King Candy to me is not his twist, but his voice actor. Alan Tudyk is just the *perfect* King Candy voice, and does an excellent job going from goofy to sinister. But yes, King Candy's twist is really well done and one of the best ones in my opinion.
@artbytesia11 ай бұрын
Isn't it a shame how a movie with one of the best twists in animated-film history was immediately followed by a movie with one of the WORST twists in animated-film history?
@andrewmitchell2343 Жыл бұрын
Years ago when I first watched Atlantis, Rourke's evil twist legitimately shocked me. Most villains at that time were fairly obvious from the get go, but Rourke? The man was a kind caring leader who respected and valued his team, and out of nowhere becomes a cold monster because of how little he thinks of the Atlanteans and Milo's attachment to them. He also accurately sums up how this is just archaeology, at the end of the day. "Return every artifact, and you're left with an empty building." And his demise was even more shocking. I was not prepared for the horrific way he died by the Crystal's power.
@msk-qp6fn Жыл бұрын
In a way he is one of the most shocking and eerie due to him seeming a decent person yet not caring for the "commodities" like so many people in real life
@thobetiin82665 ай бұрын
I think it was so shocking because it was disney. You don't expect a betrayal like that in disney. If it was a live action film it would have been obvious to everyone, but in atlantis, the intended audiance is kids, who are like Milo, and only the parents would suspect Rourke from the get go due to their life experience. Maybe not even them
@sarahlamper5701 Жыл бұрын
I am a simple girl. I see Silver- I click. But yeah Silver is a twist bc during their growth and character development you start to forget/hope that he’s not the villain. The same way Jim does. And so when he does ACTUALLY betray Jim and (unknowingly) in front of him, we feel the same hurt as Jim.
@generalveers9544 Жыл бұрын
I think it’s safe to say that Frozen kicked off the cons00mer era of Disney, where they get maximum return for minimal effort
@artbytesia Жыл бұрын
That's one of the main reasons its hype ticks me off so much. It's kind of teaching Disney that the story doesn't matter and that so long as it has princesses and nice colors, it's going to sell well. Heck, even my mom--my OWN MOM--said something like that to me, which I interpret as "It doesn't matter that it's poorly-written, has stupidly-done twists, contrivances, pointless characters, and what-not; so long as little girls like looking at the princesses and colors and cute snowman, that's all that matters." That is just insulting. Listen, Mom, did it ever occur to you that maybe one of the reasons I take the film so seriously is BECAUSE it's for kids? BECAUSE kids don't know any better? They need to be exposed to SMART stuff like Kung Fu Panda 1 and 2 (my family and I hate the 3rd movie), WALL-E, Bolt, Big Hero 6, Wreck-It Ralph, and a lot of the older Disney Princess movies. Not Frozen!
@msk-qp6fn Жыл бұрын
And I HATE IT
@FosukeLordOfError Жыл бұрын
The weird part is how much frozen wasn’t made like that. It was a project that was stuck in development hell forever and had a really slow opening and only picked up steam by word of mouth. It has a lot of great things going for it and is overall a good film. I’m not going to deny that it has lead to a large brand/toy sale for the company.
@artbytesia Жыл бұрын
@@FosukeLordOfError I disagree; I find it pretty bad. It does have a few good things, but those aren't enough to save it. I know it was in development for a long time, and if you ask me, it should have stayed there until they'd fixed the writing.
@FosukeLordOfError Жыл бұрын
@@artbytesia my main point is that the movie was not a shoveled out consumer product with minimal effort. Hate and criticism for the movie didn’t really show up until it become popular, which to me seems to indicate a good movie on the whole. Like I remember when it came out it had almost no advertising. Word of mouth enthusiasm saved it.
@justinkluesner918 Жыл бұрын
I think the reason why Rourke works so well as a twist villain is the fact that initially, you don't think there is going to be a villain at all. The first half of the movie is entirely obstacle based with major threats in the sub, fireflies, and everything else. There were other avenues available that could have led to a huge climax without the reveal that he was evil. As for Silver, I think the big fact that makes that twist work is the fact that he is heavily hinted at being the villain as soon as you meet him. You know the bad guy is a cyborg, and there were no other cyborgs around. The twist isn't really that he is the villain, it's that you don't want anything bad to happen to the villain after you meet him.
@MrLednard Жыл бұрын
Disney: Villains needs to be reliable nowadays. Dreamworks: So anyway, in this movie, Death is a cheating bastard who wants to kill the hero out of spite, also the other main villain just want absolute power because he was slightly wronged as a child and decided to become the fattest bastard the world as ever known. And he fucking enjoys it.
@andrewgreeb916 Жыл бұрын
and goldilocks just wants a real family, at the expense of the one she already has. You could almost phrase the last wish as an insult to Disney's villain writing style.
@error-try-again-later Жыл бұрын
Goldilocks is the sympathetic antagonist done well.
@Kaitou1412Fangirl Жыл бұрын
@@andrewgreeb916 A move 2000's Dreamworks would be all over.
@Mediados Жыл бұрын
What I like about Silver is that they didn't try to hide the twist. We knew from the start that he was a traitor, but the interesting part was Jim finding out about it and confronting him.
@vizthex Жыл бұрын
Waternoose is made better by the fact that he's *only* do it to save the company - not because he has a personal vendetta against anyone. You can see that in the scene where he talks to Randall and says "Because of you, I had to banish my top scarer!" in an annoyed tone. Sully was literally the cash cow of the company. He knows that and is just damn near praying Randall's invention works. But when you compare that to Callahan from Big Hero 6, he lets Tadashi die by destroying the building for no reason, doesn't give a shit about it (even though he was the prize student), and makes some dumbass convoluted plan to use the microbots to get back at the big company guy for an accident said company guy felt empathetic for - he didn't want to strand or kill the daughter, but it just happened by accident partially due to him rushing the safety check. i haven't seen either film in years so i'm sure i'm missing some points, but it's a good contrast between the old and new types of disney villains.
@themadgamer1217 Жыл бұрын
The Hans twist wasn’t seen from a mile away by me… but, rather, by my mom. She spent her youth reading all the cheesy dollar store romance novels my aunt bought, and she said that his whole premise was a very common villain setup in those kinds of stories.
@eirikiruiner6618 Жыл бұрын
Thats why i love Moana, because the twist is that there never was a villain. Turned the concept on its head!
@justzombie759439 минут бұрын
Oh yeah. Also, well, I don't like it when a lot of people say "Moana" has a "bad villain" because I've seen it many times. Although this is a very obvious opposition between mankind and humanization of nature. Don't destroy nature, otherwise it will become deadly hostile to everyone. On top of that, this is intertwined with the theme of biological and adoptive "parents" (Maui was abandoned by his biological human mother, the gods raised him as their own child, but he still gravitates towards the romanticized image of his human relatives). I think if the storytelling hadn't been so rushed and had focused more on this than on some of the less necessary parts of the plot, it would have been much more distinct and gorgeous. I mean, I like it the way it is, but it feels like there could have been more to it.
@SagaciousSilence Жыл бұрын
King Candy was already the main antagonist for Vanellope’s narrative, but then the twist was that he was actually Turbo, Ralph’s narrative foil (another video game character who was discontent with his home game and jumped games for selfish reasons). But whereas Turbo was the hero in his game but then became the villain, Ralph was the bad guy who learned he can be heroic in his own way.
@Cosmic_Espeon Жыл бұрын
When Hans was revealed as the villain of Frozen, I legit just sat up and was like "Wait what?" because he showed no inclination about being a villain. He showed interest in Anna and even smiled at her in the beginning, the only thing you'd pick up on is when he says he's 13th in line for the throne, but again that seems like a throwaway. That whole scene where he reveals his motives to Anna was narrative whiplash. If you wanted to become King of Arrendale, why save Elsa in the castle? Why not just kill her while she's unconscious? You know she's dangerous, and people won't stop you. For all they know, her powers might subside when she dies and restore Summer back to Arrendale. And when Anna reveals that she has to kiss him, he could just do what he did in canon and let her freeze, except now Elsa is dead so no one would be in his way. He was presented as a good guy and turned into a villain at the last second and it made no sense. It still annoys me to this day. It's even worse in Kingdom Hearts 3 when you can tell that, narratively, Elsa was supposed to be the main villain but they just throw Hans in there with no background, no explanation of who he is, he's just there. Further proof that Disney always meddles with things and ends up making them that much worse. Case in point, modern Disney remakes. In Big Hero 6, it was the same, the villain reveal just came out of nowhere, and it was more blatant in Zootopia with Belleweather, like as soon as I saw her, I was like "how much you wanna bet she's the villain?" and I was proven correct. Left field last second twist villains are just narratively incoherent, there's no pay off if you have no set up. It just takes me out of the movie.
@billyboleson2830 Жыл бұрын
Frozen was trying to be “self aware” which was entertaining back in the 2010s but nowadays just comes offf as lame
@LordHdio Жыл бұрын
As a Treasure Planet fan i was overjoyed for you to talk about silver, but yeah the twist is he starting to care for jim, you get the vibe of a boy who never had a dad, and a man who started to love someone other than him, and you see how hard it is for both of them when the twist happens
@themartyflorence Жыл бұрын
Tangled is my favorite Disney film of all time. It is already so perfect but I often think about how different it would be if the story was told more through the eyes of Rapunzel. It always seemed strange they had Eugene narrate at the beginning and not come in as a narrator till the end. It seemed kind of unnecessary. Whereas if it was told through Rapunzels eyes, we would believe we were in some strange kingdom full of danger, we would have more trust in Gothel and less in Eugene. It would make Eugene work harder to earn trust and make him more likable in the long run. Gothel would be innocent and motherly. Until things start unraveling as the climax unfolds. Scenes like when rapunzel sees the portrait in the kingdom, hears of the lost princess, and thinks of the lights having a connection to her birthday always lacked the shock value because within the first few minutes we already have all the answers. However, the way the scenes are written it is as if we don’t know. The POV changes too much. The scene where Rapunzel exposes Gothel is so strong and I think it would be even more shocking if the audience was also hearing this for the first time. In any great reveal scene outside of Disney a twist scene answers the unanswered questions and makes all the small details have meaning. It’s already a great film but the true darkness in the final act could really shine if done this way.
@noxiouschocolate9644 Жыл бұрын
You might like a video called skipping the first five minutes of tangled
@themartyflorence Жыл бұрын
@@noxiouschocolate9644 oooh thank you ill check it out
@mr.ginger183 Жыл бұрын
The reason simplified: They were built up.
@edwardsaldana2534 Жыл бұрын
"That was his mistake!" Best villain quote in Disney history🤣 It definitely deserved an academy award over The Lego Movie.🤣
@bugsquashinghero891 Жыл бұрын
And it's also one of the dumbest things ever said in a Disney movie
@Ironica82 Жыл бұрын
@@bugsquashinghero891 Ya know, the more I think about it, the more it does make sense. His whole motive is to get revenge for his daughter's death. He waited until one of his students created some technology that he can use to get his revenge. It was probably years of seething and scheming before that night. Thus, when he saw the tech, his implemented his plan to fake his death. Considering how his fake death plan was detailed enough that no one was supposed to die, having one of his greatest students actually die would have haunted him. However, in his mind, while struggling with grief and revenge, he would make himself believe that he was not at fault for his death in order to ease his twisted mind of the guilt and to focus completely on his revenge plot. Could they have conveyed that better, of course. However, his outburst of anger when he said that is making me think that he is just believing that lie so he doesn't have to feel guilty of killing one of his favorite students. And yes, I instinctually left the names out as I would butcher them and spell check wouldn't help me :)
@jayt9608 Жыл бұрын
I am going to say that Gaston is another twist villain, especially if you skip the introduction of the movie. We see that he is high-handed and arrogant, but we really do not see his true villainy until later. In fact we are introduced to him with people everywhere singing his praise and women swooning over him. No one is surprised at his eventual villainy, but he is in a certain light a sympathetic character until he decides to lock away Maurice.
@andrewgreeb916 Жыл бұрын
Gaston is honestly the hero from the village perspective, he hardly counts as a twist villain, the fact we know the beast isn't evil is the only reason he comes off as villainous at all.
@jayt9608 Жыл бұрын
@@andrewgreeb916 Technically the Beast is the villain for nearly half the movie. We are given his motivations in the opening, which is why I excluded that portion. And I agree that we eventually see Gaston and the Beast switch ends roughly at the midpoint. And we never actually see the townspeople repent of their assault upon the castle and its inhabitants.
@merafirewing6591 Жыл бұрын
@@jayt9608 it was definitely by far the most interesting twist between the villain and the hero.
@10thletter40 Жыл бұрын
@@andrewgreeb916 Yeah but he does lock up the professor and stuff and got pretty brutal
@bjsdemon Жыл бұрын
Treasure Planet is an all around underrated classic. Unfortunately, Disney didn’t promote the movie like they should have. I love watching the arcs both Jim and Silver go through throughout the movie. Jim gets that father figure he never had and Silver learns some morals, setting up a possible redemption arc for him IF Disney had promoted the movie and it became successful enough to warrant a sequel. At the end of the movie, Jim got into the Space Academy so it was highly logical that they'd cross paths again
@StonedHunter Жыл бұрын
You made so many good points in this. I do agree about Clayton except instead of CHANGING him, the jungle just EXPOSED who he always was. This idea that polite and refined society often leads and enables the most horrendous of us to hide their natures. Out in the wild, there is nothing for you to hide behind, you end up having to be brutally honest. Rourke is amazing because ya, we could always tell something was off about him and Helga. It was the turn of the others that got me so hard the first time. Ya you understood they were in for money but none of them came across as willing to hurt people to do so. So, seeing them initially willing to not just hurt but cause a full genocide hits you really hard. Silver is perfect but I'd phrase him more as a kind of twist hero? Like if you know the book or just pay attention you can tell he's one of the bad guys from the jump. The twist in my eyes is when he starts bonding with Jim and seeing that slowly change him, with the big 'twist moment' to me being him getting upset over the sabotage during the black hole. Even the others call him out on it and you see it in his face that he's kind of shocked himself too. I liked seeing him constantly questioning his actions after that point, building up to the final culmination of letting the treasure go for Jim. Sad thing is, a lot of these modern twist villains could work SO much better with some relatively minor changes to the narrative that don't involve rewriting the entire thing. I get frustrated cuz I can see the moments where they could build the twist up better and I just end up wondering why they seem to just ignore all the clear signs that it isn't gonna work the way they want without these changes.
@sh4d0wfl4re Жыл бұрын
While I do agree with you by and large, I think Zootopia actually nailed its villainous reveal. The movie wasn’t an action flick, but a detective one. While we only get the twist at the end for mayor Bellwether, her motivations are slowly unveiled alongside clues and the general themes of the story. Her motivations are very closely tied to her actions/crimes, and we see our pair of detectives slowly uncover all the rot and biases within their beloved city. We see how both the prejudice against predators and the fear of herbivores effect various people in differing ways. And all of these clues and themes come together to point at the person with motive, ability and opportunity to pull off such a big scheme: the mayor’s aide, recently promoted to mayor. Heck, Judy being supported by Bellwether fits right in with all of her motivations, she just didn’t understand that Judy wanted to live with the predators (instead of merely dealing with the system where they are in charge like Bellwether). Bellwether actually wanted Judy as an ally and confidant, hence why her going overly menacing at the reveal hit harder. But you are right, if Zootopia weren’t a detective movie, the last minute reveal of the villain would have been a terrible twist. Thankfully it was a proper detective movie where the clues properly foreshadowed what he villain
@hellogoodbyeandallinbetween Жыл бұрын
Yes! As a detective story, I agree it works.
@artbytesia11 ай бұрын
@@hellogoodbyeandallinbetween Rather well, I might add!
@RandomDragonEXE10 ай бұрын
I can agree with you to an extent. Since it's a detective story, it works. I just think there should've been more and better hints to her villainy before the reveal. Other than that, I agree
@rita8274 Жыл бұрын
TBH I think Han's works as a villain bc he's realistic. People like him exist and they're good at hiding their intentions and what they have planned until they think they have it completely in their control. Small things can be caught before that's a bit strange when you don't think of it as a Disney story but an actual thing happening in real life: he love bombs her, rushes their relationship, does his best to act like the good guy (especially publicly) and has a sickly sweet/perfect vibe about him when EVERYONE else had at least one flaw. His character wasn't fleshed out bc the person he is, doesn't exist in that world and is in fact very 2 dimensional. I've been around, and was in for two years an, abusive relationships my whole life and when it came to be that he was a villain I wasn't surprised bc he made me suspicious.
@dragonmaster1360 Жыл бұрын
That would be interesting if that's what they were going for, but I really don't think they were deliberately writing that. If I remember correctly, the ending was scrapped to make Elsa more likeable, and thus needed a villain. Thus: Hans.
@rita8274 Жыл бұрын
@@dragonmaster1360 it's weird how it still kind of works that way though. The rest of the movie pretty much supports it, even if not their intention initially XD
@lucyandecember2843 Жыл бұрын
o.o
@andrewgreeb916 Жыл бұрын
Honestly a bit of better writing and he would have worked fine, based on royal succession hans needs ana alive to have any access to the throne, so he would try the kiss, it would fail and hans would get desperate and come up with the execution of elsa against ana's wishes to try to save ana, arendelle, and streamline his position to being king, what a clever plan. Except elsa escapes so Hans tries to kill her in the blizzard cause she is ruining his perfect plan.
@nonamepasserbya6658 Жыл бұрын
@@rita8274 It works that way because it was rewritten...that's the point of a rewrite. Still doesn't mean it's a good rewrite even if it's "realistic".MatPat theory about the trolls being the true villain makes more sense
@OhHeckNono Жыл бұрын
It's always nice to see Turbo getting some recognition, thanks, great analysis, straight to the point and well explained.
@ARCHIVED9610 Жыл бұрын
yesss cant see him the same 😅
@OhHeckNono Жыл бұрын
@@ARCHIVED9610 why you say so?
@ARCHIVED9610 Жыл бұрын
tumblr sexypedia popped up when i searched him 😔
@OhHeckNono Жыл бұрын
@@ARCHIVED9610 ahahahahaha, "do not cite the tumblr drawings to me, I was there when they were drawn"
@ARCHIVED9610 Жыл бұрын
@@OhHeckNono memories i hoped were long forgotten came backkkk
@lasumexaranethon7230 Жыл бұрын
I find what I've seen in good twist villans are that they dont actually begin as an antagonist towards the cast but are genuinely welcoming but its when the object of their desire is threatened they would do anything to keep it even turn against the protagonist. So in a sense it was a genuine ally turned bad rather than someone just pretending to be good.
@orykoth Жыл бұрын
I will always love John Silver as a character and Treasure Planet as a movie. I'm sad it doesn't as much love as it should, it is such a good movie with good characters who have complicated relationships with each other.
@andrewgreeb916 Жыл бұрын
honestly he's less of a twist villain than a twist good guy, frankly if Jim wasn't there you would honestly see him taking the wealth for himself.
@battybuddy Жыл бұрын
I actually liked bellwether, but the hints with her was THAT she was being helpful, and the fact that Lionheart was trying to keep the predators from hurting anyone was standing in her way of making them look like a threat.
@battybuddy Жыл бұрын
Granted it was a rather harsh switch in focus, but then I think the beauty of zootopia was the idea that things weren’t solved by switching the blame on people.
@eloiseconnelly3055 Жыл бұрын
Silver being a villain WRECKED me as a kid, I was shocked to my core. Treasure Planet stays at my top 5 favourite movies
@superfanmusicmaker Жыл бұрын
I honestly don't know if I'd even call King Candy a twist villain, because unlike most of the others, the fact that he's the villain is not the twist in itself. We already know from his very first scene that he's an arrogant, attention hungry prick who'll do underhanded and unethical things to stop Ralph and Vanellope from taking away his power, so even when he doesn't seem like an outright villain, he's very clearly the antagonist from the start. The _actual_ twist - that he's really Turbo - doesn't change this fact, but it adds a ton and depth and context to the character and his actions, while also making him a much more direct parallel to Ralph. It's the same with the Wolf in _Puss In Boots: The Last Wish_ . We know from his very first scene that he's a ruthless hunter who wants Puss dead, and Puss is already desperately trying to get away from him. The character's goal and personality remains exactly the same after we learn that he's actually Death, we just have the explanation for _why_ he's doing it while also cementing the film's message about life and mortality. These twists don't abruptly change the characters or their roles in the story, but they add tons of layers and deeper meanings to the point where if you watch the films again, you'll see them and these villains in a completely different light than you did the first time.
@m0istur Жыл бұрын
Remember what Zangief says to ralph: "You are bad guy, but this does not mean you're a bad guy". Remembering that quote just made me realise that yeah, these are video game characters, and they are villains for a video game, but that doesn't mean they are evil outside of the video game as well. They could be the most vile villain ever in a video game only to be the most caring outside of it or just a pretty chill dude. Everyone is just following a script of bad guy vs good guy, and what makes turbo a true villain that was a hero or main character in his own video game and disguised as a king who doesn't care too much in another. That's really the twist here for him
@magnusm4 Жыл бұрын
I like how Clayton sees himself as refined and sharp yet he's constantly shooting everything. He shot at the sound of Tarzan faster than a gunslinger and tried to shot Tarzan the first time he appeared. And he got excited at hunting Tarzan saying he needed a challenge cause the gorillas were to easy. But he only beat one by shooting it and as soon as his gun is destroyed the completely flips out. I love how even as Tarzan smashed the gun and it's completely in pieces and falling, he's still for some reason reaching out for it. The Atlantis villain Lyle is fun cause everyone's goals are the same the whole journey. The only difference is the twist to them being that the people still exist. Lyle's companion says while looking at him "This changes everything" and he coldly says looking away forward "This changes nothing". He was always straight forward, he's just isolated from empathy and goes further than others. Same as you said with Clayton. The twist isn't that they're evil but that they're the savage they portray others as. Lyle kills, abandon and backstab anyone he wants to just to win, as he said himself "I love it when I win". But John Silver is the best out of all of them cause he isn't a twist villain. We're shown very early that he's the cyborg warned about and the way he commands the crew around. What I love is how he develops over the course of the movie. Threatening anyone in the way of his dreams but recognizing and acknowledging Jim has something special. He still focuses on his goal as shown when he readies a gun and still bosses Jim around to get his map. It's at the climax that he's given the choice. We know Jim is a good kid, we see another development of opening up and being honest about himself. I love John as a villain cause he's also not a villain and the end doesn't simply say water under the bridge. He's still wanted and offer Jim to leave with him and in the end he goes on his own. We just don't know what but I would forgive them a sequel just cause John is such a fun developed character who isn't all good or bad.
@LCCWPresents Жыл бұрын
A twist villain works best when they are a twist to the other characters instead of trying to be a twist to the audience.
@ladyorlean3550 Жыл бұрын
Silver is definitely more like a twist-hero than a twist-villain. We knew he was the villain from the veey beginning but he grew close to Jim over the journey and in the end he helped him and let go of his most desired: the treasure.
@Atlas-pn6jv Жыл бұрын
It's also obvious that John Silver was the bad guy because Treasure Planet is just Treasure Island in space. It's not even apologetic about it.
@Coreybyte Жыл бұрын
Really great video! I definitely agree with all the older twist villains working so well. I think part of the reason that modern Disney twist villains are very poorly written is because of how big Disney as a company has gotten, they own so many franchises, and have split up all their best writers among to many different projects, causing the writing of everything as a whole fall from every franchise they own.
@Derpinator01 Жыл бұрын
My take on how these twist villains were able to work is that their villainy didn't feel like an on/off switch, but more like a tool that they might use depending on the situation. Your money-making scheme is getting waylaid by someone getting the hots for a native? Ditch the dead weight and bring out the weapons, we've got looting to do. Some nosy outsider is disrupting your plans to take control? Get on their good side to make it easier to remove them when they're a threat, or even get them to help you instead.
@Atomicsaurian Жыл бұрын
Ok. Bellwether makes perfect sense. Did you somehow miss that she was shit on by the mayor from her first appearance, emotionally and mentally abused? And she helped the main characters only when it helped expose the mayor's attempt to disappear the victims. Had Judy not figured out the night howlers later Bellwether would have gotten away with it. She is more insidious because she only helped them because, well because Judy was a prey animal, but because her investigation helped her pin it on the Mayor. It's genius. And I felt it was a good twist.
@JerbilKonai Жыл бұрын
The problem I feel with Bellwether is that she has barely any presence. Yes, her motivations are there, even a later twist hinted at by the assassins being rams... but I feel like she should have been more visibly involved in the plot, even if that would have been difficult with all the traveling Judy and Nick had to do to solve the case. Maybe even having her escape instead of the whole police department showing up to arrest her would have been an option that improves the plot if follow ups were in consideration, because now there's a villain that grows as a threat just like the heroes grow as a counter. As it stands, Bellwether has too weak a presence to be a major villain, though definitely well shown reasons for why she does what she does.
@arnoldgreen4278 Жыл бұрын
The issue is that Bellweather has around 2 minutes of villain screentime to actually be a villain. Yes it's a good twist, no one saw it coming but that doesn't equal a good villain. Basically no presence and pretty boring to be honest. Again if they revealed her 2/3 of the way through instead of in the last 5 minutes it could have worked way better
@Nopeasaurus Жыл бұрын
@@arnoldgreen4278 according to disney, a twist is only good if you didn’t see it coming.
@Michael-bn1oi Жыл бұрын
If you sneezed you'd miss all of her set up.
@twylanaythias Жыл бұрын
I would argue that Hans is a far deeper character than most people credit, and many people miss the undercurrents because they're far more subtle in his case. Hans is the youngest of thirteen sons - even to his own family, he's little more than a nuisance; if he's lucky, his parents might marry him off to an equally-obscure princess in some distant land and simply forget he ever existed. Though he initially set his sights on courting Elsa, he recognized Anna's quite literally falling into his lap for the serendipitous blessing it was. When Elsa ran away and Anna chased after her, leaving Hans in charge of the kingdom, he could easily have usurped the throne right then and there - it would easily be days before Anna returned (if ever), and the Duke of Weselton could have readily convinced the kingdom that Anna was as 'cursed' as her sister. Yet Hans loyally supported Anna in her stead and even dressed down the Duke for his aspersions. But then Anna returned, her hair turning white and heart freezing due to the blast she received from Elsa. As a prince (however far down the line), he was most certainly well-versed in the lore of True Love's Kiss... But even Elsa had said that his relationship with Anna couldn't possibly be true love; Anna had chased Elsa shortly after and Hans hadn't seen her since. What would have happened if he had kissed her, particularly if it had failed to save Anna? So what does he do? Risk discovering that their love wasn't true enough - on either of their parts - or try to cushion the pain by *convincing himself* that he never really felt anything for her?
@blackcatcoffee4693 Жыл бұрын
I think the king candy ending up being Turbo thing worked the best in my opinion
@doctorson7026 Жыл бұрын
The other diffrence I noticed between old school and new twist villain, is that said villains were not antagonists until it turned out that they and protagonist have opposite goal, and only because that they are revealed as a villain, while the new villain are like "I was good, but now i have 180° and i am bad muahaha"
@stubblytuna4068 Жыл бұрын
Turbo one probably my fav, they used him as historical context only for him to become the main baddie in the final act
@VulpineFox7 Жыл бұрын
I think bellwether would have been a pretty good twist villan if she was written and hinted at better. I think a politician villan that seems like they're helping when really thier on the other side for their own benefit is a really great concept fitting really well with Zootopia. I already like Zootopia but if bellwether was a better villan id like it a lot more.
@sharkinator7819 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I personally liked that movie because it had good protagonists and a fun setting, but the villain was easily the weakest part. I spent some time awhile back writing fanfics, and I personally think I ended up creating way better villains
@lordmango6060 Жыл бұрын
Dude, waiting for the main characters to realize who the villain is can be so engaging. Season 1 of the show Invincible had me on the edge of my seat for this!
@Rae0814 Жыл бұрын
I think Silver works because they show why his Bond with Jim is so important to both and it’s like an emotional gut punch to show someone so important to Jim, the Main Character, would do something as such.
@CraftyMaelyss Жыл бұрын
I'm sorry but Bellweather from Zootopia was done really well however the biggest problem with her is that *they were too subtle about her connections and hints.* In some scenes when Bellweather is working on her computer to help Judy, you can see some sticky notes with hints of her connection to Doug (related to the big bad thing happening in the film) it's just very, very subtle with the way they show her having these clues in open sight but don't bring attention to it.
@pierrebegley2746 Жыл бұрын
No offense but you shouldn't have to have a spyglass in hand to see the clues that she's a twist villain. Plus she ruins the overall message of the film by effectively saying that the "animal racism" is entirely her doing and that it's all fixed when she's stopped.
@error-try-again-later Жыл бұрын
She needed WAY more screentime for any of that to matter tbh. The way it was executed was basically like "do you remember this side character??? Well now she's actually EVIL"
@Commanderstevo Жыл бұрын
@@error-try-again-later The zootopia that hit the screens was actually the second telling of the story, the first draft was very interesting which had judy as more of a villain than the protagonist, its really interesting how they first envisioned it. Still I have to agree with the OP I thought Bellweather fit the narrative well. every interaction she has throughout the story explains her motives and goals, she uses prejudice as a weapon and exploits it to make changes in society that she feels is right at the expense of those she views as abusers/oppressors. The same prejudice that damages judy's relationship with nick so deeply, one she has held since childhood and makes her reconsider why she even joined the ZPD in the first place. I thought it was better than how you described it, more like "you remember that little sheep character that the Mayor abused at every opportunity? who hated the status quo of society? Yeah turns out, despite her cheery personality, she actually snapped"
@wake6000 Жыл бұрын
@@pierrebegley2746 that's the thing though, at no point did she single handedly cause the racism against predators, she just twisted it into something that helped her to get into power, over someone who's outwardly robust and commanding like Lionheart. The point is Racism can only be countered by people working together to go against it, so that people like Bellwether can't use it to gain power. As someone from a country where this happens pretty regularly, this hit very close.
@RaptorCakes Жыл бұрын
Funny enough, I didn’t totally understand why people disliked modern villains. I agreed they weren’t as strong as they count be but I still didn’t totally disagree to the twist side….. until now, you’ve reminded me three of my favorite Disney villains… No modern Disney villain has given me chills like King Candy did when he first: revealed himself as turbo, and two: had a “boss level”. Seeing the Cybug transformation gave me goosebumps. No other villain had done that until we got De la Cruz.. Now, I entirely understand where Disney is failing as their villians
@TDArulesclub4 Жыл бұрын
No matter how 'silly' you think King Candy was, you can't deny him in his cybug form is fucking terrifying (in a good way).
@Tzedakah263 Жыл бұрын
I'm going to go against the grain and say I liked Hans as a twist villain. If you listen to his conversations with Anna, the clues are there. He mentions he has several older brothers who disrespected him growing up. He wants power and respect. Being the youngest of so many brothers would mean that he wouldn't inherit the throne or a large allowance. Further, pay attention to his face during "Love is an Open Door", when he and Anna are sliding down the hall in their socks and duck behind a door to avoid being seen. Hans initially looks at Anna with a disgusted expression until she looks at him, then he neutralizes his face. By assuming a leadership role while Anna and Elsa were away, he established trust among the peasants and politicians, so when he lied about Anna's death, he would go unquestioned.
@andrewgreeb916 Жыл бұрын
Hans could honestly have worked if they stuck to what he was doing, which was trying to protect ana to protect his line to the throne, and the fact killing Elsa would save ana makes the situation all the more convenient. Cause Hans doesn't have any claim on the Arendelle throne so he needs ana to survive, so he would definitely try the kiss, and upon it failing he would jump to the conclusion that Elsa needs to die to save ana and his opportunity to rule, so he'd order the execution for ana and Arendelle's sake. This would also motivate Hans to try to kill Elsa in the snowstorm.
@Nopeasaurus Жыл бұрын
Theres a scene where Hans is all alone and he looks wistfully after Anya with no dark intent in his eyes. This is a huge contradiction to the scene you described and clearly done so the audience wouldnt suspect Hans is evil. The movie took so much time trying to fool us into thinking Hans is a good guy all for a big stupid twist that it never bothered to establish his evil nature. It could have shown some of his backstory and some of his ego and pride, especially when leading elsa’s people aganist her. instead we got a charming prince acting as the hero for the majority of the movie only for him to flip full psycho and leave anya to freeze to death and attempt to chop off elsa’s head. Its a weird 360.
@EmiStar070 Жыл бұрын
From a meta perspective I think it's really cool that hans is basically a mirror to whatever character he's with. He acts to meet their expectations to manipulate them and that's a cool detail that calls back to the original story. But I really wish there was more done in the narrative that explicitly showed his manipulations and greed for power and was more overt to the audience with the Kill Elsa In The Ice Castle plan
@artbytesia11 ай бұрын
@@Nopeasaurus Weird? Stupid is more like it!
@uhh345 Жыл бұрын
The only way a twist villain can work is that they need to be important to the story, and they need to make sense.
@frenchfry9370 Жыл бұрын
Top 3 reasons why they worked and what every twist villain needs to not be crap imo 1: Their motivation is understandable and doesn't come out of nowhere 2: They are given enough time that we can get to know them as characters 3: They don't become a completely different character after the reveal 3 being the most important Silver worked because even after the mutiny it's clear everything we saw of him up until then was still there, he maintained the same personality and clearly still cared for Jim Hans failed because we only saw him being the almost too good to be true prince with little to no indication as to his intentions and his character did a complete 180 at the end
@daniellewillis2767 Жыл бұрын
I actually LIKED Hans as a twist villian. He is every bit as sheltered and frustrated by the strictures of royal life as Anna, and when the 2 of them fall in love at first sight like 2 virgins on X- tacy and when they decide they want to get married, I truly believe he is every bit as invested as Anna. At this point in the story, the most villianous thought in Hans mind is how advantageous marrying Queen Elsa's little sister would be, and the worst that would have happened is he'd have turned into an entitled douchebag once the honeymoon was over. Then Elsa says no to the wedding and almost immediately afterward is revealed as a terrifyingly powerful ice witch who freezes Arandel and flees off into the night. Anna then does a dumb thing: She leaves Hans in charge of running Arendel while she goes in search of Elsa, leaving Hans the de facto King of Arandel. Im sure he just couldn't WAIT to give that up, especially when Anna returns with a blonde Magic Mike XXX himbo in tow ....Forget "twist villiany", what else was he going to do?
@10thletter40 Жыл бұрын
He unnecessarily dragged things on. He went out of his way to continue the charade even when he didn't need to do so. How would he even know Anna would die?
@ma3mc3mu-X Жыл бұрын
King Candy being Turbo was considered the last "twist" villain to be good. The rest you can see from space.
@theoneneo5024 Жыл бұрын
I think the failure of Incredibles 2 is that the main character, Mrs. Incredible, didn't have an arc. Mr. Incredible had clear growth in the first film and went from bottom to overinflated ego to failure to growth as a character. In the second movie Mrs. Incredible was just awesome the whole time and was never shown to learn anything or grow from her experience and become a better wife or mother or hero. Rae and other heroines have had this same treatment in modern Disney and the results speak for themselves.
@emblemblade9245 Жыл бұрын
Part of the reason she doesn’t have a development arc is because everything falls into place perfectly, due to all the results being manufactured behind the scenes by the villain. So on a meta level it makes sense, but I agree that for an audience it’s very disappointing and does not work.
@thediamonddragon1369 Жыл бұрын
No offence but I don't think John Silver was that much of a surprise as a twist villain if you notice him in the beginning through the window when the house went on fire. You could clearly see his eye and shadow of a mechanical arm. However I'm not saying that he's a bad character, I love his development and the movie 🤩
@LloydTheZephyrian10 ай бұрын
The twist isn't that he's the villain, but moreso about his personality and motives.
@gilgeaschwithkerk2344 Жыл бұрын
Well Disney can make great villains again in series. Belos is the best villain since Frollo and they can make them relateable like in Amphibia and these also had twist but they have a twist surrounding the villain and not that it is a twist that they are the villain. Sorry for my bad english i am German
@Sakuracat11 Жыл бұрын
This was an excellent reminder and really helps to better appreciate these good examples of twist villians and what good storytelling telling can do with them.
@joemama1132 Жыл бұрын
Silver is the goat, fav Disney character
@1992disney Жыл бұрын
He's my favorite Disney villain of all time.
@JoelKellenProductions Жыл бұрын
With Long John Silver, the twist was already built in because of the original story. It was just a matter of when it would be revealed.
@cee_ves Жыл бұрын
One thing I never understood about Hans is… why tf would you leave Anna to die? She’s like you’re guaranteed entry to the throne, marry her and you’re golden. I think that scene would have been more impactful if he did try to kiss Anna to save her so he could marry her and take the throne, but it didn’t work. Then as Anna realises he never actually loved her he starts his monologue, having now resolved to plan B; leave the kingdom leaderless and then establish himself there through aid and garnering the public’s support. And of course, he will have no issue revealing all this in a lengthy monologue as he’s convinced Anna will die.
@jeffreyseamons5514 Жыл бұрын
The theme I'm sensing here is that instead of making a character the surprise billing, make your villain more obvious but still give them some kind of twist.
@coltondodger Жыл бұрын
I think that the best way to delineate between a good twist villain and a bad twist villain... is that a GOOD Twist villain, all the pieces are given to the audience well before they "turn." The betrayal is just that missing piece that clarifies all the other clues. A bad twist villain would lack that context. A bad twist villain is, ironically, a surprise.
@hehehehaw-fd9xf2 ай бұрын
I think that twist villains are intended to be a surprise, but that would mean that they don't get as much character development as they could've. Take Hans for example, he's just some random nice guy that's not supposed to be menacing or scheming. He was definitely a shallow character, but I think doesn't make the twist bad. It just makes him a bad character, not a bad twist villain.
@Sp3ctralI Жыл бұрын
4:40 coulda made a callback to Toy Story 2 by pulling a Darth Vader, but nope, just an old buzz.
@nkarma_ Жыл бұрын
Honestly, one of the best twist villains of DreamWorks was Johaan, from the RTTE HTTYD show. We knew that character since the first show, he was always that fun, comic relief idiot, but when he was revealed to be a villain it was a shock. Not even the audience could've predicted that. He and Krogan working for Drago and manipulating both Viggo and Hiccup was done so GOOd. Viggo's redemption and character development might have been rushed, but it was pretty good, sad that they decided to kill him off.
@Nixus237 Жыл бұрын
Rourkes biggest crime was what he did to mommy helga
@starsantheoriginal Жыл бұрын
Bro, you don't pay attention. Bellwether had TONS of hints. To the way she made sure they caught the mayor, the clip notes on her phone, the fact that she was LITERALLY the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing. She continued trough out the film to drop hints about "us v them" and "watching out for the little guy". She is written as a master manipulator and they pull it off beautifully.
@Michael-bn1oi Жыл бұрын
She's barely in the film. I think what you mean is there was massive wasted potential with her. To be a great twist villain she'd need to actually feature in the plot in some meaningful way.
@joshualally2883 Жыл бұрын
You could technically say that silvers was not a twist villain but a twist hero. Throughout the film you know he's the villain but as the movie goes on you see his relationship with Jim expands you see him start to care for Jim. He eventually gives up his life long obsession to save Jim's life, completing the twist.
@urmom6701 Жыл бұрын
Love how no one mentioned the first terrible twist villain that came way before the beginning of Disney's dive into CGI madness, Rico from Home on the Range. Dude's barely in the film, what we do get of his character isn't very much, he's built up to be this major deal in the film and then he's forgotten about until the very end, and the dude was pretty obvious to begin with due to how shady he acted with little screentime he had, his motivation is very weak (money? haven't seen that done before) and we really didn't need him to turn heel anyway, we already had Slim, the Willie brothers and Wesley. Yeah I know ragging on Home on the Range is old news but I thought I might as well add the pillar that started the s****y twist villain trend before it even began. And no using the excuse that it doesn't matter because Home of the Range is s**t anyways is not a good reason to not question things or to straight up forget about the movie altogether, the movie still exists in the Disney verse whether they like to acknowledge it or not. Say what you want about the movie but it still deserves recognition due to it being the last hand - drawn animated movie before Princess and the Frog movie came out.
@adamantiiispencespence4012 Жыл бұрын
I disagree just because it was only really a swerve to Bucky.
@d1kgaws12 Жыл бұрын
Didn’t know that movie existed
@aliceinwonderland8314 Жыл бұрын
For twist villians to work well, it doesn't matter if the audience can mostly figure out what's going before the reveal, all that matters is the gut punch within the narrative, both from the twist itself, and all the little moments before hand where you can see the villian laying foundations, getting ideas, adapting to manipulate others, foreshadowing through a bit of seemly insignificant banter. Some of my favourite twist villians of all time in fiction are from Babylon 5. That show is a gold mine of well written twist villians if I ever did see one.
@HonestBear8009 Жыл бұрын
This video got me thinking…has there ever been a twist hero done by disney, the only one I can think of are the crew from Atlantis
@gilgeaschwithkerk2344 Жыл бұрын
The fox from Zootopia i think
@shadowm2k7 Жыл бұрын
Anastasia from Cinderella 2 & 3 x
@error-try-again-later Жыл бұрын
The lava diety in Moana and the huntsman in Snow White, maybe?
@kallieezzell6878 Жыл бұрын
Treasure island was my favorite childhood movie I watched it almost once a week as a child and still have the movie to this day so to see it come up was something really happy for me, because he is the villain but at the same time grew to be a father as well and it is undeniably one the best portrayals of how just because someone is cruel in some ways doesn't mean it extends to all parts of who they are.
@allenaju1856 Жыл бұрын
Treasure planet was peak childhood to me. That year so much good stuff happened in my life
@Imperior23986 ай бұрын
A thumbnail with my two favorite movies of all time! This is a must watch! Atlantis and Treasure Planet are two movies centered around a treasure, and they are the two movies that marked me the most in my life and I tressure them deeply. Really liked the video man!