Don't Tumble Your Tank - Scuba Tech Tips: S13E08

Doing your own tank tumbling sounds easy but could damage the tank. Alec explains why tank tumbling is best done by a service pro for the best cleaning.
Watch my "Alec Peirce at the Ranch" for ranch and home ideas. / @alecpeirceattheranch
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[@peytonp6540]

Alec, I remember watching you several years ago back in high school. Great to come across you again! :)

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Back in high school. Oh my you must be so old by now! HA. I have not changed at all, right? Thanks for watching and hope you learned something in high school too. A.

[@captainpanda5533]

Alec, I want to thank you so much for not only putting out these videos, but for taking the time to answer questions and comments that we divers send in. I recently completed my AOW training, and your shared knowledge and experience have been instrumental for my diving all the way up from pre-OW. I surely hope to see you on a dive boat one day. - Brad

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

My pleasure Brad. Let's see if I can help you get to Instructor some day. A

[@bcham7373]

You sure a diving treasure. When I lost my kidney in 2019 I started watching KZbin and got my passion for diving renewed. Since then I got my Divemaster certification and will be doing my Assistant Instructor certification this year. Keep up the good work!

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

That is awesome! Good to have you back in the water and moving up. Glad my ramblings help you in some way. Dive safe my friend. A.

[@scottm6927]

Very interesting! I'm quite happy to let the dive shop pros take care of my tanks. As you said, not much money really and they need the business anyway! We need to keep our dive pros afloat so they can keep us submerged :-)

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Thats a good saying. Have your LDS put that on a t-shirt, make a lot of sense. Safe diving Scott. A.

[@HWill-ol9lg]

O I see thank you for this current info now. I have to go back and check the stamp date when it was last visual (especially tumbling) if necessary.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

A visual inspection will determine if a tank needs tumbling to clear it out. It should be a rare event to tank tumble. Any more that once in 10+ years and there may be another problem with the air quality, tank valve, or emptying the tank to zero pressure. A.

[@DigginwithSeven]

As always, very informative video.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Glad you enjoyed it Seven. A.

[@williamsweet7511]

thanks for all your knowledge

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Always welcome William. A.

[@DrHarryH]

Love your videos Alec, clear and practical. You may also know that soap (surfactant) in the lungs lowers (end equalises) surface tension enough to allow the very tiny alveoli to expand and not collapse.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Did not know that Richard. I'm smarter now than yesterday! A.

[@jacquespoirier9071]

thumbling is a process that is widely used in sheet metal work industry to eliminate burrs on parts that are volume produced, a fairly efficient process. for sure that to clean the interior of a tank, the application is a bit different but the main process is very similar. In my tank pool, I have one old steel tank ( Voit with 1/2 NPT neck thread and cable operated reserve valve) that I retrieved underwater and to my estimation, that tank was there for at least 5 years, Needless to say that that tank was filled at least the half of the volume with water and of course, it was very corroded. I peeled all the external plastic coating ( it was about 3/32" thick) , the exterior was OK so I took the chance to have it thumbled and hydrotested and at my surprize, the tank passed the test ( hydro and visual ). I use that tank for the last 20 years.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

That is a great story Jacques. Thanks for sharing and glad you took a change on that tank. A.

[@rickkinney2544]

Thanks for the info. Like I do with all my dive equipment, I only let the dive pros do the work. When I'm diving, I don't want to have any second thoughts about if my gear is working properly or not.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Hi Rick. Totally agree but too many home car mechanics think scuba is just the same. If your car stops, another car will come by, if your reg stops, oh crap!! A.

[@jamesbuckle6077]

Had both my steel tanks tumbled by request of the dive store when I bought them used and out of hydro. 70 gbp each tank for the hydro+visual, plus 30 for the tumble. Hoping I don't have to do it again next time!

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Shouldn't need another tumble every again if taken good care of them. It's really a rarely needed process but an important one. A.

[@timgosling6189]

Not something I'd heard of, so thank you for the education. If I keep my tanks filled with lovely dry gas I hope this will never be needed!

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Certified scuba air fill has virtually zero moisture so a filled tank will be clean until its next visual or hydro date. The majority of dirty tanks comes from: bad air quality and emptying the tank with the valve open. Divers spend lots of $$ to buy shinny new gear but rarely take excellent care of it. Thanks for the question Tim. A.

[@sammoyers905]

Great video, and information. Question/clarification, doesn't a tank require a new hydro after tumbling?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Tumbling is a cleaning process and not affected by the 5 year hydro testing mandate. A

[@jonathanventresca8299]

Hey Alec. Love your videos. I had a question in regards to titanium regulators. My dive store said that I can’t use nitrox with them. I know titanium can react with O2. Is this only for high percentages? And can you use titanium inflator attachments on a BCD with nitrox also. Thanks so much!

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

That is strange as its not what the regs are made of, titanium or brass, but the o-rings must be O2 compatible also. Simple check is to go online, find the reg maker, read their owners manual. I don't know of any reg, regardless of metal, that is not O2 compatible brand new. Nitrox is the most popular diving speciality next to photography. Check again then take your business to a LDS that tells the truth. A.

[@africanelectron751]

I have not dived in years but I do work with high pressure stuff all the time and I want to throw my two cents in. the threads for the valve...a rubber plug won't protect the threads for shit you should have a threaded insert in there to avoid any contact from the threads with the grit. Just use a old valve or something. I never understood why steel tanks were not plated in something... Zinc would be my choice but the high pressure chemistry is somethingim uncertainaabout

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Hello and first of many years ago steel tanks were the only tanks for divers. They did sell a plastic bag that went inside the steel 72 cu/ft tank to "protect it". BUT when the valve was threaded in it cut the plastic so moisture was inside anyway. Good marketing but bad product. It was by AMF called the "Lifeliner" Watch Vintage Scuba S07E17 on 72 cu/ft tanks. The rubber plug is what its called. Your correct about the aluminum oxide on threads is bad but its actual a threaded plug thru all threads. Just what i call it. Much appreciate your feedback and thanks for watching. A.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Oh and thanks for the feedback too. A.

[@391wombat]

Speaking of steel 72’s I still dive mine which is 52 years old. Am I right that without a 10% overfill you could get with a plus mark, a 72 is really just a 66 cubic foot tank at 2250 psi?

[@africanelectron751]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter ahh I see you actually use a threaded plug thing that really protects the threads.You know what you are doing its concerning that others might just try this with no clue.. I have seen what 300bar does when it gets out in a hurry...

[@Will-ol9lp]

Mr. Peirce, I’m in the Fl and I wasn’t happy with the place that did a hydro on my 3 tanks. These tanks no joke where very good condition that we haven’t event used them yet do to we where in the process of moving to Fl. So this store sent out all 3 tanks to be hydro and one didn’t even need it. So long story short is that our tanks came back all scratched up and crappy looking. When I talked to the manager of the dive place he said well it’s just a tank to hold your air in that’s all. So if I sent our tanks up to Canada for a hydro would I have any problems getting them filled with Nitrox in the states ? Thank you Will

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

The regulations for scuba tanks in Canada and the USA are almost the same. A Canada LDS hydro is valid in the USA. Any USA LDS will fill a tank after checking your: C card, last visual date and hydro date stamp. Nothing else really matters except the VISA card! Thanks and enjoy the warm FL weather Will. A.

[@javierfernandez1428]

Hello Alec. How do you dry a steel tank? I tried with hot air and it oxidizes again😢. Greetings from Patagonia.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Generally all steel tanks after hydro tested, are coated with a flash drying protective coating, specifically to prevent rust. They are then put valve down on a drying stand blowing room temperature air (warmer is OK if the tanks have been coated). This ensures a dry tank until the next annual visual. Hope it helps and hello from way north in Canada. A

[@donaldotsig6818]

Hi Alec i have a question where does the water go in a hpa system or tank when under pressure. Does the water always flow and settle down or follow gravity . In a hpa scuba tank if the tank is stored upright the water would always be at the bottom just the same as if there was no pressure right..Thanks

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

It follows gravity always. Even under pressure a drop of water is heavier than the compressed air. That is why tank valves have 'dip tubes' to prevent water/junk going through the tank valve into your regulator. A

[@donaldotsig6818]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thanks a bunch Alec

[@nunogirao8097]

What is worst for a tank? You talked that the hydro test is all about elasticity, so, what is worst, being constantly under pressure or being used and refilled? I have a small 2L-300bar tank that I use as bail out and it can be at 300 bars during a year or more. Should I use it more regularly or it doesn´t matter?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Does not really matter. Long term storage and repeated filling affect tanks but neither is dangerous if tested for VIS and hydro regularly. Take any large Caribbean dive resort that fills a hundred tanks a day x 7 days x 365 days + salt and sun/heat is a lot of filling cycles on an aluminum 3,000 psi tank. Yet no reported explosions or issue due to testing and the quality of todays tanks. A

[@RickC_]

Is that amount of flash rust on the steel tank bottom you showed OK at annual VIP inspection?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Visual Inspections are somewhat subjective. That is, you cannot weigh the tank & say Yes or No. It requires looking at the tank and making a decision. Different inspectors will make different decisions. Some are adamant that the tank have an "as new" appearance. Others recognize that the tank is not new & there are bound to be some imperfections from use. Rust is only an issue if it is likely to flake off or fall off the surface. In that event it could potentially enter the air flow to the regulator & block the filter. In my opinion, after almost 50 years of scuba service, a very thin coating of 'surface rust' is unlikely to be a problem. That rust will not fall off, certainly not in a volume such that it could travel to the top of the tank, circumvent the dip tube of the valve (which is there for that very reason), travel through the valve & enter the regulator. I have seen regulator filters that are red from rust but that is almost certainly the result of poor/no maintenance. It takes a long time & a lot of rust to cause that. Surface rust is easily measured by simply scratching it with a stainless steel probe - part of a visual inspection. If the rust is solid on the wall, it may pass. If you are concerned, note that surface rust can be removed easily, usually by tumbling or using a hone. However, when the tank is rinsed after the cleaning, surface rust will almost definitely reappear. It may seem to be a no-win situation but, using a rust preventative in the rinse water & drying quickly ought to result in that elusive 'as new' appearance. Hope that answers your question. Alec

[@Bierstadt54]

I am a all for diy, but I am with Alec on this one. Unless you have enough tanks that it makes sense to get the training to do everything except the hydro yourself, I don't know why you'd want to have a tank tumbler. The dive shops do it cheaply enough around here that it'd never pay for itself for most people.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

That was my point and glad you grasped it too. A.

[@susukidave1300]

What is the anti corrosion you use in the dive cylinders ?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

There are several commercial products plus home mixed solutions to inhibit corrosion in steel tanks. Read this link for recommended product names: scubaboard.com/community/threads/supplies-for-o2-cleaning-a-steel-tank.218269/ A

[@diverdave4056]

My LDS won’t do a visual before doing a Hydro …

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

They have to take the tank valve off for the hydro so why not do a Visual Inspection before? A few LDS prefer to do it after hydro to verify the tank is totally dry before filling it. A.

[@mattdecker7141]

I have some old steel 72s that aren't the cleanest inside. I can tumble them, whip them, scrap them, or turn them into windmill chimes. Maybe not worth the rehabbing effort?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

If the tanks look like they would pass hydro and a VIS, offer them for sale first. Lots of vintage divers collect useable tanks. If no offers, they make great wind chimes. A.

[@rashie]

👍👍

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Thanks athukora. A.

[@fkrioters1000]

"$25 to $30 for a tumble" In my area, they charge 2x that amount :(

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Show the shop this video and ask for a better price. Maybe they will agree if you're a returning customer. A

[@fkrioters1000]

​@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter The shop owner has already told me "I don't make any money off VIPs ($30 VIP+fill), fills ($10) or tumbling ($55)." Given I recently took the visual Inspection course, and know the process, there's no way VIPs aren't profitable at that price. I took the class because maintaining a small fleet of tanks was getting FAR too expensive. Based on my interactions with the LDS owner, I suspect he'd treat it as an insult if I tried to negotiate prices with him.

[@creeib]

Dive cylinders 😪

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Hope you like. A.

[@bjonesehc]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter hahaha class as always. Thank you for making the content you do and for the gift of it being ad free!

[@bloodymarvelous4790]

Thank you for the extensive explanation of what RPM is, and how you reduce the speed of the motor, but how about getting to the point of the video? These videos are so damn tiresome.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Why not watch some more to be sure? Can't change my way of presenting at 75 so pick another channel please. A

[@bloodymarvelous4790]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Because some of your videos are actually worth watching. It's just a slog getting through the crap to get to them.

[@lordrath1069]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I actually love the conversational manner of the videos, it is one of the reasons I follow this channel and not some of the other ones. Please don't change them!

[@hulinda3832]

Hi, Alec, I sent you an email last week, waiting for your reply. Could you pls check your email?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Hello Hu. I already did a review of the SMACO mini dive system. See my video kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGG8qpqNmNCpjpY. Not interested in anymore on this system. A.

[@lupusdeum3894]

I make a crunchy chili, but it's just corn chips in with the chili...👍💦🐳🤿

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

You could try a not chilli to burn the insides clean! HA. A