Alfred makes a good point actually..

Bro I swear every depiction of Alfred is a mf G idc what no one say. Dez Caught It.
#batman #alfredpennyworth #arkhamknight #gothamknights #thebatman #alfred

[@ambrosiaplatypus]

"What would you do Alfred?" "Probably snipe him from a distance, Master Bruce"

[@jackychang9148]

"Blow him apart with my 12 gauge sir."

[@wesleywallace4426]

Exactly. I was waiting to for Alfred to go off by saying exactly what he would do to someone whose a known threat.

[@tornadotaylor8956]

The same thing I did to the men who broke into the batcave. Or use a shotgun

[@guitarwi3rdo]

"Perhaps you relied on my master's vow AGAINST using lethal force. Let me assure you that I subscribe to NO such niceties." In other words, "I keep dat mfkn THANG on me"

[@thant0s]

@@tornadotaylor8956 I understand the sentiment, however the two situations aren't entirely compatible: it's the difference between a home invasion and going out and hunting for someone. Not saying it's wrong or anything, but there is a difference, which is likely why he answered the way that he did. Bruce already knows Alfred won't hesitate to use the most effective tools at his disposal to protect his home; whether Alfred would gear up and go take someone out is another story.

[@officialFredDurstfanclub]

“What would you do, Alfred?” “I’d kill the bastard” “What?” “What?”

[@e-money9251]

Alfred:”Did i stutter, master Wayne?”

[@burningfish156]

Also, Bruce made a promise back in Arkham City where he'd come for Ra's if he continued his usage of the Lazarus pit, so destroying it is ultimately him keeping his promise.

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

He meant he’d stop him, not kill him.

[@burningfish156]

@@teleportedbreadfor3days Ah. You raise a decent point, but Ra's is still a twisted shell of a man after being addicted to the Lazarus Pit. I imagine Bruce would stop the cycle and let him rest.

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

@@burningfish156 Cutting Ra’s tubes feels like the game’s default option, anyway, given when Arkham Knight takes place.

[@VetroMatt]

He also made a promise and a vow to way more people that he would never kill

[@burningfish156]

@@VetroMatt Fairly certain he killed Grundy.

[@WolfyFancyLads]

To quote Alfred himself from a Batman comic: "My master lives by a strict code to never take a life in the name of justice.... I have no such standards."

[@Horatio787]

Pretty sure Alfred was a military man in most continuities before becoming a butler. Doesn't make sense when I think about that actually.

[@cynicat74]

All the while loading a shotgun Alfred is the one character I've never seen done wrong

[@WolfyFancyLads]

@@cynicat74 Even in the TellTale version he had a gun if you chose to fight Harvey instead of stopping Penguin. He's a fighter, gotta hand it to him. :P

[@stevenscott2136]

@@Horatio787 Wasn't there a B:TAS episode where we find out he was MI6 in his youth? And Michael Caine mentioned his SAS unit burning down a forest to kill one guy.

[@Horatio787]

@@stevenscott2136 Yeah there was, someone puts a truth serum in him to extract the info. I was just remarking that professional soldier to butler seems like an unlikely career move since british butlers are pretty entrenched in their ways.

[@JarvisBaileyVA]

I appreciate that he asks what Alfred would do. If nobody else, he trusts his father's judgement.

[@TBrizzle01]

Agreed. Batman never asks this question ever. But he asks Alfred because deep down, he values his opinion and advice.

[@excitedcat9517]

I like how he didn’t say, “Drop it Alfred.” Or “I don’t want to hear more of this.” That moment was genuinely heartfelt. He’s so confused and has no idea what choice to make so he went to the man who knew more than him. His father figure Alfred.

[@killerhellhound]

@@excitedcat9517 Alfred would have just ended the fucker without hesitation he only didnt say that because he wasnt there and didnt want to push him to a path that would cause his son bruce to suffer They care deeply for each other and know the other very well

[@sterenn726]

Alfred (and Lucius) are both behind Batman Mask. Joker is right to dont care about Batman true identity. Yes, It's mostly Bruce. But Bruce without Alfred or Lucius is nothing during a good period of Batman.

[@phantom._.7271]

alfred ain’t his father

[@BlazingOwnager]

"What would you do, Alfred?" "Shoot him with a .50 cal repeatedly until he stopped moving, then reload, sir."

[@Boomer_The_Turtle_Speedruns]

"Guns didn't kill your parents, a man like him did." - Alfred

[@Calum_Bell_]

If we’re going on a technicality, after Batman destroys the Lazarus machine and imprisons Ra’s, he’s on a heart monitor in the GCPD and can still speak to Batman. He’s still technically alive, probably not for much longer but during the events of the game, he never truly dies

[@carsenmaxwell3336]

He would die, he died for good in the Son of Batman movie, in Batman Begins, and recently, he may have received a permanent death in the comics, but you never know

[@isplat927]

@@carsenmaxwell3336 "permanent death in the comics" HAH! As if that would happen.

[@TalkativeGoofball]

@@carsenmaxwell3336 i'm sure ra's wouldn't have permantly died with how many times he has been brung back by some other form of a miracle

[@DepressedFishey123]

@@isplat927 some characters don't come back especially not very popular ones like for example slade Wilson's son

[@isplat927]

@@DepressedFishey123 yeah but Ra’s? The man notoriously known to be able to come back from death? Yeah right.

[@Stardweller1]

Batman isn’t killing anyone by destroying the syringe. He’s simply allowing a man who’s already dead, and clinging to a barely-sustainable form of undeath, to die fully.

[@lucaswatanabe9429]

"Whatever was in there died years ago."

[@12Daniel34]

Imagine if he went to a hospital and destroyed a cancer patient's chemo stuff and everything. "He's not killing anyone by destroying it, he's simply allowing a man who's already dead, and clinging to a barely-sustainable form of undeath, to die fully."

[@12Daniel34]

@@charlesebaxt Wouldn't Ra's also die without the Lazarus pit? Due to old age or some disease he had, don't remember exactly, either way the point still stands. "Some dangerous criminal" tf are you to decide who deserves to live or die? It's your morality that's messed up.

[@12Daniel34]

@@charlesebaxt Also yes I am comparing two human beings. Shocker, I know.

[@tylorhillman9186]

"I'm not killing you, I'm allowing you to die"

[@maxvogt3515]

Man’s lived lifetimes, died multiple times, and through inaction you’re simply letting a man who’s died time and time again finally stay at peace, instead of forcing him on, corrupting his mind and killing his daughter, as well as countless others. I think there’s a clear option of which choice to pick, but I’d love to here from anyone who would choose to save him, even knowing both immediate outcomes

[@Strangeminds38]

Tbh the most logical option is killing him but sometimes i save him cuz it fits the way that Batman's no kill rule causes more harm that it avoids.

[@jessemccutchen308]

@@Strangeminds38 you not killing him really you saving him if batman wanted to kill he could have done it a long time ago but his morality won't allow it he did the right thing if he chose to let him have the Lazarus it will remain in his conscious that he made a big mistake by giving him a sample of the pit if you chose to destroy the tubes you made the right choice from a storyline perspective to end the Era of batman this would be the correct choice

[@Strangeminds38]

@@jessemccutchen308 Meh you literally crush his chances of surviving in front of his eyes, i think it could be considered indirect murder, of course it's more complex than that and Ra's Al Ghul is barely a human being at this point but you basically make sure that his survival chances are 0% (not saying that it's a bad thing)

[@jessemccutchen308]

@@Strangeminds38 bro this is not crushing his chances it's choosing to not save him so technically he didn't murder al ghul if you look at the Nolan dark knight this is a reminiscent of this but batman didn't murder him but letting him live to then murder his daughter is murder and is something batman doesn't want on his conscious so to think about this is the right choice

[@darknorman2914]

Bruce didn’t kill Talia,Joker did.Don’t say it’s his fault she’s dead,because she willingly had Joker hold her hostage.It’s only due to a “miscalculation” that she ended up dead.If that was the real Joker,Bruce would be making wedding plans rather than keeping to himself.

[@tristancampbell4941]

"How many more back surgeries will it take for you to listen, Master Bruce?" "Yes."

[@spectraphantom5870]

Bruce: What would you do Alfred? Alfred: Well sir I, for one, would let that crazy ass ninja die

[@laughslapproductions4690]

Alfred used to be special forces he has no problem ending someone, the no kill rule is strictly for Batman and his sidekicks

[@demonslayer5122]

​@@laughslapproductions4690Not just special forces, but MI6 as well.

[@thedarkechoes1236]

@@laughslapproductions4690Alfred was a field medic in the SAS so I don’t think he killed

[@wipeoutliang]

I would busrt out laughing every time I hear that quote. Alfred is the best

[@serioussilliness2064]

ass ninjas

[@garbange]

Bruce: "what would you do, Alfred?" Alfred: *loads shotgun*

[@BlueTGM40]

That's why I love Alfred, he knows what could be done, and what he knows and cares about Bruce. Alfred has a good way of judgment, no matter what Bruce decides to do as Batman or the billionaire playboy as his alternative life.

[@dappermaverick]

alfred will also kill if he needs to, unlike bruce

[@BlueTGM40]

@@dappermaverick In my eyes, I see that as a last resort, or to protect the family Bruce and him built together.

[@rolandofgilead43]

which is why it pisses me off that in the comics they killed him off

[@BlueTGM40]

@@rolandofgilead43 I am just happy that aren’t not planning on it always for video games and especially not for movies and TV shows.

[@rolandofgilead43]

@@BlueTGM40 give it time ypu never know

[@crabdabo1825]

Alfred found the ultimate loophole

[@thesailormercury2]

sometimes killing is a only choice.

[@SOLOcan]

Batman doesn’t kill because as the Joker in Nolan’s Dark Knight points out, he needs villains to fight sustain his identity. On a personal level, his crusade is driven by his trauma. If he ran out of people to stand in for his parents killers he would actually have to resolve it and move on. Symbolically if it weren’t for these supervillains who are (ambiguous in a lot of cases, yes) inherently ontologically evil, then he would just be a very rich person using his wealth to resolve his mental health issues beating up poor people.

[@noro329]

@@SOLOcan In my personal theory Batman always used the statement that “there’s no going back” once you kill but I think he only means that for himself He knows he’s also one step away from being insane cause a regular person wouldn’t turn into a genocidal maniac if they kill once especially when it’s completely justified

[@SOLOcan]

@@noro329 By symbolic, I don't mean that Batman is one step away from losing his mind. He is, this much has already been established ever since the Killing Joke. It's rather that, without the Joker there simply is no Batman. The symbol of the "dark knight" has no meaning at all. Bruce Wayne, puts on the mask to find meaning, lost after his parents death. In fighting an external enemy that threatens the metropolis, he is able to elevate his "truth" to that of a larger community. Gotham City. Thus Batman is as much a institution of City just as much as the police force or the mayors office. When GCPC or Harvey Dent cannot do what needs to be done against the likes of SuperVillians, Batman is there to take up the mantle. This is explicitly shown in the Nolan films. But this is an identity based on two illusions. One, Batman's identity as a protector is imminent to the existential struggle for Gotham City. Once there is no struggle there's no need for Batman. As pointed out by so many people, Bruce Wayne is the mask, Batman is the real. It isn't when his enemy is defeated that he becomes his true self. Batman's true self is already there, defined by his villain's and the struggle. So when he says "there's no going back". It is hinting at his subconscious wish to keep the struggle going. Once the Joker is dead, Batman is really just a violent man wearing hockey pants Second, supervillain's are not real. I don't mean that they are unrealistic. I mean that villain's are never external to us. In reality crime isn't committed by some outside force, or some criminal with an entirely alien subjectivity to us. They are committed by the community members, for reasons you and me deal with everyday.

[@natperXD]

@@SOLOcan I mean Batman has always been insane. He trained and studied like crazy just so he can dress up as a bat every night to fight crime. This is what I imagine Batman’s reason behind his no kill rule, it’s for him to stay in control.

[@PlagueOfGripes]

"What would you do, Alfred?" From what we've seen in all his depictions, probably tell the villain he doesn't have a code against killing and then blow their head off with a shotgun.

[@jadehaze7939]

Is that what you would do, Plague?

[@basedbrit4206]

​@@jadehaze7939No but comic Alfred would

[@kingp260]

Unexpected Plague of Gripes

[@The_Sleepiest_Socialist]

Well, this continues to prove that Alfred Pennyworth is very awesome.

[@larniieplayz6285]

Of course he is

[@The_Sleepiest_Socialist]

@@larniieplayz6285 yeah, but still.

[@billwithers7457]

"What would you do, Alfred?" "I've killed before, I'm confident I could do it again sir."

[@tristanskywalker1998]

I think the Arkhamverse Batman would pick to destroy the machine. He promised to end Ra's al Ghul's addiction if he didn't do it himself in Arkham City. And he didn't attempt to prevent Ra's from stabbing himself at the end of that game, so he already has some belief that ending Al Ghul's artificial clinging to life isn't the same.

[@mexicanbatman8157]

Not much batman could have done when ra's tried to stab him

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

Batman promised to stop Ra’s again, not kill him or end his addiction for him (I know you didn’t say kill but some people thought he would do that, too, and breaking his addiction might imply killing Ra’s, as well.)

[@justinharvey7398]

@@teleportedbreadfor3days "I've given him a chance to break his addiction, or I'll be back to do it myself." Literally a direct quote from Batman to Oracle in Arkham City. Him choosing to destroy the machine is him fulfilling that promise. Besides he even stops Nyssa from killing him, opting to instead take him to GCPD.

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

@@justinharvey7398 I’ll have to rewatch that scene. I could’ve sworn i remember him not saying exactly that

[@justinharvey7398]

@@teleportedbreadfor3days I did watch a video. He says that right after you fight Ra's, leaving Wonder City. It's some lengthy dialogue between Batman and Oracle but that is (I believe) the last line.

[@awesomeman2176]

I always destroy the Lazurus machine. Ras is basically a zombie at this point. You're killing a zombie, that's more of a civil service than murder.

[@redshot5403]

Plus Batman killed the zombie Grundy

[@Elemento0420]

Plus, Batman said that if Ra's didn't break his Lazarus addiction, he'd do it himself.

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

Given how Arkham Knight progresses and ends, I’ve always felt like the choice to end Ra’s’s life was the ‘default option’ of the game. It makes sense, all things considering. Besides, it was more or less a mercy.

[@kylurity]

Yes, batman has mentioned he can’t help but save EVERYONE including villians, he is compelled to and when ra’s uses the pit his mind becomes more and more destructed hence making him a shell of what he once was, I think destroying the pit is the default option for batman & also counts for saving him because he is not choosing to use it, he’s addicted and his mind is deteriorated

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

@@kylurity I was thinking because of Knightfall, but yeah you make a very good point, too.

[@jasperzanovich2504]

Since we know the alternative, yes. No doubt. The other option gets someone killed, while Batman didn't kill her himself it's a direct consequence of his actions. And between the two Ras has less life in him.

[@gamegladi8or669]

And I mean, he literally says he’s proud of Batman if you pick the ending where you let him die, so he was probably suffering or in pain, probably addicted to the stuff and unable to stop himself.

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

@@jasperzanovich2504 So they’re both quite fitting for the Knightfall ending. But one gets rid of Ra’s and Talia’s sister keeps her word to Batman and her promise regarding the League of Villains, which I still believe is the default option.

[@mannysalcedo3114]

Alfred should have said this "If you won't end his life then at least end his immortality"

[@Abdul-Akeem_Akinloye]

You have said it best.

[@mannysalcedo3114]

@@Abdul-Akeem_Akinloye Thank you

[@Abdul-Akeem_Akinloye]

@@mannysalcedo3114 You're more than welcome.

[@Samuel152]

That honestly should be why people should destroy the machine, as you would only be letting Rā's die the natural way.

[@TheJuggerClutch]

What a compelling, well-characterized Batman adaptation. I sure hope he gets to live a long and happy life after Arkham Knight!!

[@maltesefalcon85]

define long 😂

[@NoNeed2No]

Well he got a few years lol

[@amir.music2005]

"What would you do, Alfred?" "l would kill that crazy-ass ninja, sir." ...

[@averageperson8882]

I go by the quote from Batman Begins during this mission: “I won’t kill you, but I don’t have to save you”. Batman technically never kills Ra’s, instead leaving him to face his own mortality.

[@Eshtian]

This quest is genuinely amazing. It explores the themes of batmans code far better than the main story. And I've seen people complain that the choice isn't hard but that's the point, there's a bad ending to show the damage Bruce's code has. It is easy. Just not for Batman.

[@thedarkknight727]

Sometimes ‘ending’ a life is the same as ‘saving’ it.

[@Arkhambattles]

Reminds me of that slave mission in rdr2 (Jeremiah Compson)

[@spacedetective_]

Alfred always makes good points. He was never just a butler to Bruce, but a mentor and the only true parental figure he's had since his parents died.

[@thecasual283]

"I'm happy to say Bruce has become a better man than I." *racks shotgun*

[@tyrongkojy]

"What would you do, Alfred?" (Cocks shotgun) "Well, Sir, if the memes are anything to go by...."

[@cam.rrrron]

Even Ra's respects his decision and is proud of him for doing so

[@habijjj]

In ra's perspective batman is killing him even if that isn't the case.

[@motodog242]

@MrWesdotcom Batman killed Clayface in City… so… not the first time. And indirectly killed Joker, in case the entire sub-plot of Knight was missed.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@MrWesdotcom people not seeing it doesn’t change that Batman did it. The whole point is he’s taken lives before so this no kill rule argument falls flat on its ass. Plus Batman has already shot someone in this very game while on the fear toxin.

[@ianfinrir8724]

Ra's has always had nothing but respect for Batman.

[@izilladkilla]

@@motodog242 Clayface didn't die in Arkham City. He survived, but the chemicals in the Lazurus Pit caused his body to be stuck in a permanent, mud-like state. So he can't regain his normal shape anymore.

[@rhettgedies7467]

This sidequest was awesome because it stretched Batman's morals just before ending his final night as the caped crusader. If you choose to destroy Ra's life support and ultimately dooming him to a final death.....Batman has chosen that ending life (though not directly) may sometimes be necessary. If you decide to stick to Batman's traditional morals to a T, you still stop the League, but allow Ra's to continue his evil long-term. Both endings are very well-suited and still fit Batman regardless. Great plot writing honestly.

[@He-Man00]

The only option that makes sense canon wise is option A: Destroy the machine. Batman clearly stated in City that Ra's is addicted and that he has to stop, or he would STOP him. Injecting him in Knight would contradict his position in City. Furthermore, since Knight is the ENDING, letting him live leaves a huge loose end that never gets resolved. Dispite Batman's fucked up code, I truly believe he would see this as an act of mercy (for a man who suffers an illness) not to mention the end of centuries worth of conflicts (past, present and future) Option A is the only one

[@aswiftshift5229]

I don't really think barman code is "fucked up" not killing criminals is fine even some of the more extreme cases like two face or scarecrow because with some actually good treatment they could probably be rid of their mental illness and live normal lives but their can be some exceptions to this rule of course like joker who's just too far gone that gone that killing him is probably mercy at this point the same thing with ra's he's lives for centuries and his addiction to immortality and the pit is destroying destroying his mind killing is the best option for him but overall batmans rule is a good one I believe

[@ascii8229]

At the end of Arkham City, Batman tells a dying Joker that he would have saved him had he not dropped the vial when Joker stabbed him. This is the exact same situation. Batman is met with a dying Ra's who he has the ability to save. This time, there is no one to stab him in the shoulder, so canon-wise, Batman would save Ra's. If he didn't, it would not be consistent with what he told Joker, and that was arguably the most pivotal plot point in the series.

[@MrRAGE-md5rj]

Batman has killed before (or mentally crossed the line, as he does so during the hallucination on Scarecrow's airship.) in other media, though. Plus, since it's one of his last acts as "The Batman". I figure it would be a better note to go out on. Not s a "mercy kill", but to let him die, once and for all. Like in Batman Begins, "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." @@ascii8229

[@gieldecloet7987]

I think batman was lying@@ascii8229

[@ascii8229]

@@brycemcglothlin3830 Batman absolutely does not consider Ra's to be an exception to his rule. Regardless of what he considers Ra's to be, Batman still doesn't want to kill him. In Arkham City, Batman explicitly states, after his boss fight with Ra's: "I'll never kill, not even you." The state that Ra's was in then is the same state he's in during Arkham Knight, just because he's about to die again, it doesn't change the fact that he already has died and been resurrected. And at that point in Arkham Knight, whatever Batman considers him (undead, alive, etc.), he still does not see Ra's as an exception to his no kill rule, because it would contradict his actions in Arkham City. And yes, I'm willing to argue that he already knew Grundy wouldn't die from it. It's either that, or he believes Grundy's state is different from the state Ra's is in, a state in which his rule does not apply.

[@paraplonk7269]

I think this is the first time I've ever seen Batman ask Alfred for advice on something as serious as this

[@Checkmat8]

“I won’t kill you… but I don’t have to save you“ A quote from Batman himself

[@girlbossalex8065]

I think it’s worth mentioning that Bruce’s conviction to avoid killing people is not, and has never been rational. Even when the strictly correct or better option in any given case is to kill someone, Bruce will choose not to do it, not because he’s stupid, but because he knows that if he allows himself to indulge that privilege, he’ll never recover. It’s not a matter of whether murder is the correct option, it’s a matter of whether he’ll be able to stop himself from doing it again in the future.

[@jackhazardous4008]

Plus the death penalty is in the states hands after a trial. Or would be if people dealt with this for a generation

[@planktonwithwater2886]

And he does stop the criminals and has set up charities to get them the help they need

[@unusualusername8847]

Depending on how you interpret the "Ghost" ending, he does indulge in killing.

[@bornkinggamer3347]

But rationally isn't there a point where it's best to kill certain people even if it means he'll start killing more people?

[@Astropeleki]

Exactly what I thought. While I do believe it wouldn't be out of character for him to destroy the machine (ultimately it wouldn't kill Ra's, just let him die naturally as he should have done centuries ago) I do think too many people misunderstand why he refuses to kill under any circumstances. It's not because he thinks he can change characters like the Joker (Batman often said that he's irredeemable scum) but to prevent himself from falling into the slippery slope of being judge, jury and executioner. Him not killing is also the reason why the GCPD, namely Commissioner Gordon, treats him as an ally and not an illegal vigilante; he never really takes the law in his own hands and lets the system deliver punishment on the criminals he captures. There's a comic book where an alternate Batman actually kills criminals and Gordon is staunchly against him, eventually even unmasking him. So it's for the best that Batman doesn't kill: so that the people of Gotham and the police can trust him and so that he doesn't end up like some sort of Punisher.

[@mast3734]

Alfred knows exactly what he'd do he keeps a 12 gauge loaded in the manor for a reason

[@Astropeleki]

Batman: "What would you do Alfred?" Alfred: "Sir, I am an ex-Special Forces, trained in using firearms and has used them to take lives. I believe you know very well what I would do."

[@Bodysweeper]

Alfred you damn good butler man said "I'll stand by you" Good or Bad Alfred will always remain Loyal

[@Grizzlox]

Enter TellTale Alfred

[@AndersonWorld]

He is right.

[@Captainkebbles1392]

"What would you do Alfred " I LOVE Conroy's change of tone, a genuine son like wonderment of someone he trusts, and in so doing Alfred softens and admits he doesn't know but believes the boy he raised will make the right choice regardless if he can hold back the monster inside him

[@lesliehoey2017]

"What would you do Alfred?" "I'd ask you to kill him, Master Bruce"

[@pjleelo23]

This brings “I won’t kill you but I don’t have to save you.” To another level

[@ProcrastinatingGuy]

"What would you do, Alfred?" "I assure you I subscribe to no such niceties as you, Master Bruce."

[@arcanefury3666]

"I don't know sir" Alfred dont lie. 9/10 times you are ready to kill people. This man dreamed he killed Joker, woke up, and slept like a baby. I saw so many shorts of Alfred being way more brutal than Batman and wielding guns that in my headcanon, Alfred's middle name is,"Stay Ready."

[@kevinruddsdirtyspud6171]

nah man I think his middle name is 'strapped' since he's never really caught lacking

[@rileydavidson180]

Well, the reason that Alfred uses guns and is ready to kill in defense of himself and others is that he isn't as strong or as skilled as Batman. Batman has the ability to defend himself non-lethally, Alfred doesn't.

[@Resi1ience]

In the comics, he was a royal air force combat medic, and then British secret service. He literally protected Queen Elizabeth, and has probably killed dozens of people. If it were his choice, he'd blow Ra's brains out with a rifle from very far away. He'd do that to many of Gotham's villains. But he recognizes that it isn't his place, it isn't his job - same as Batman.

[@mr.purple497]

Sometimes, let some people die (not killing them directly, just letting the life doing their stuff) its a act of mercy.

[@trystanmichels5183]

My favorite part of this entire DLC mission will always be him asking Alfred what’s the right thing to do.

[@goliathsaber2455]

He is right Ra’s is technically already dead and plus we can see Ra’s is suffering because of the endless coming back from the dead thing it’s killing his mind and soul for literally 600 years so destroying it is the right option and plus it puts the League of the assassin in the right hands of a leader and Ra’s can finally have peace and be free from his torment

[@Seven-Seas-of-Baba-O-Riley]

You know, Batman faced a similar situation with Grundy, but he didn't hesitate to literally pull his heart out of his chest with his own hands.

[@Stardweller1]

To be fair, Grundy was undead, and thus not really alive. Though I would argue that in this case… so was Ra’s.

[@CharlesChaldea]

Alfred's "I don't know, sir" strikes me as coming from the "medic" part of him.

[@aRandomFox00]

Batman may never kill, but that doesn't mean he has to save you.

[@IsaiahINRI]

"What would you do Alfred?" "Shotgun."

[@danielesquilinguzman1656]

Alfred speaking facts

[@naterk9460]

"What would you do, Alfred?" "I'd blow that monster's fucking head off and sleep soundly tonight."

[@LegoReader12345hello]

Considering batman killed Grundy, a zombie, it makes sense for Batman to not help ra’s who is in a zombified state, thus letting it happen

[@LordSiravant]

Bruce: "What would you do, Alfred?" Alfred: "With all due respect, sir, were it my decision, the vast majority of your rogues gallery would have been dead long ago."

[@Raya_Chan16]

Batmans no kill rule Alfred, Jason, and more:

[@TheDunnDusted]

"What would you do Alfred?" "I literally just made an argument for it but I would kill him, wouldn't even be a bother depending on which version of Alfred you want, most of them I'm former SAS or MI6."

[@konradpietrzak3842]

Thats the secret: Alfred always makes a good point.

[@Multifandomlover1]

anytime this stuff happens. I just remember this line that Batman gave “ i’m not gonna kill you, but I don’t have to say to you either.”- the dark Knight trilogy

[@baico657]

Letting a sick criminal die from illness I don't think counts as murder. So letting Ra's die by denying him the Lazarus Pit shouldn't break Batman's rule.

[@WYJAFAK2]

0:29 that’s the exact face I make when I forgot to do my homework

[@kaiko70]

I honestly like that the game opens a bit about Batman going more "softly" about his rule. I mean, he's still not a murderer. I love this kind of dilemma, the same we got from Nolan's Batman begins. I like to think that this all side story is just a big quote from that movie.

[@FireOccator]

Well, you don't see Batman running around Gotham making sure that nobody unplugs life support.

[@ajbarquet3603]

He always lets his allies tell him what to do anyways such as Oracle plus Ra's is too dangerous to stay alive

[@TheHunter6499Gaming]

Are you threatening me Master Jedi?

[@mg682]

@@TheHunter6499Gaming Batman will decide your fate.

[@TheHunter6499Gaming]

@@mg682 I am.. BATMAN

[@thewisecouncil8787]

@@TheHunter6499Gaming not yet

[@TheHunter6499Gaming]

@@thewisecouncil8787 it’s treason then

[@Jeezes718]

Batman: what would you do? Alfred: you do remember i have killed in service to the queen, and am not fond of people who cause you distress? Do the math, master wayne.

[@broondjongen]

Always gotta remember in Batman Begins when he told Ra’s “Im not gonna kill you, but I dont have to save you” which really is also the case here if you destroy the machine

[@TurkMyr]

To quote Batman Begins, "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."

[@KaiKrimson56]

Alfred should've warned Rocksteady not to make Suicide Squad.

[@JSHADOWM]

"What would you do Alfred?" Chad Comics Alfred: Sir, five rounds rapid.

[@InnerRise]

😭

[@thekenyonsquad5672]

stay tuned for later news including the color of grass, what shoes are used for, and the state of joker's sanity.

[@TubeEamo]

I loved that the game let you make the choice and decide if it fell within Batman's code. Personally I feel letting him use the Lazarus pit to stave off natural causes crosses the line into insanity. Alfred's right, it's really not the same thing as denying medicine or care. And you're doing him no favours by allowing him to use the Lazarus pit either. Ra's himself expressed fears over what it was turning him into. Letting someone go peacefully is not murder.

[@shawnthompson2303]

You weren’t a good man, Ras. *But you had conviction.*

[@Superdeath25]

I always destroy the machine. Ra's Al Ghul is dangerous, plus he is pretty much a corpse in this game, and it isn't truly killing, just not reviving.

[@trevorsreya8277]

“I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you.” -The Dark Knight.

[@sagittarius4765]

Well, like batman told Ra's in the end of Batman Begins "I'm not going to kill you but I don't have to save you."

[@nikmar77]

"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you"

[@foxxygradius7858]

"What would you do, Alfred?" Dude Alfred was SAS, he'd kick in the door with a shotgun and dispense the Queen's justice.

[@ExplorerDS6789]

It's taking him off life support. It's not killing him.

[@nathanroberts3638]

I think the "I don't know" is a bit deeper than we're giving him credit for. If Alfred turned out to be a vigilante, of course he would kill Ra's in a heartbeat. He wouldn't have suggested it otherwise. But with the moral code? He has no idea if he would break it or not. He knows it's a trolley problem, and he's not trying to convince him to change the tracks, he's just pointing out the lever.

[@jmp_jayperproductions]

Alfred honestly sounds like your dad if he was a therapist

[@Janon743]

He feels more like an uncle or an older mentor friend

[@jmp_jayperproductions]

Master Wayne, do you think it’s wise to be “hooking up” with miss vale sir? I feel, old sir. This makes me feel old sir

[@GunSpyEnthusiast]

" what would you do Alfred? " " use a gun. " "... " " ...and if that don't work? use more gun. "

[@BETMARKonTube]

Usually Batsy and pals just walk around shouting the real names of the ones they're talking with (and even if they think there's nobody around, we know people like Joker and Riddler can easily hack their calls). But now he literally shows the face of his butler in 16:9 for everyone around to see !

[@stevenscott2136]

And Barbara. And Lucius. I tell myself the video is just there for us -- the equivalent of TV shows jump-cutting from one person to the other so we can see the faces.

[@fluidthought42]

Akshually the gauntlet feed is an AR display being projected into Bruce's eyes by the cowl. If you ever look at Batman during these kinds of exchanges he has the "white eye" look that usually only happens during Detective Vision, which indicates that he is looking at something not seen in regular sight.

[@BETMARKonTube]

@@fluidthought42 Well, if that's true... that's not so bad as it seems. Still other people can hear what he says and.. then why does he need to look at his arm, if he can keep the "live chat" in a corner of his eyes anyway?

[@fluidthought42]

@@BETMARKonTube Because it looks cool, probably

[@BETMARKonTube]

@@fluidthought42 We're talking about the guy who waste time to bat-shape explosive plastic, even if nobody's watching, before to blow it up... So... Most likely.

[@kamikaze4172]

"What would you do, Alfred?" *Alfred, slowly raises shotgun into view*

[@redshot5403]

Batman did kill the zombie grundy

[@greenlight2k]

Batman doesn't kill. But he doesn't have to save everyone from death, either.

[@JustinCage56]

This DLC had better stories than the actual base game

[@OgBigNut]

Tbh it’s probably my favorite dlc in the series.

[@dachshunddoggo2764]

​@OgBigNut In my case I haven't even known about this dlc until now, I think the only one I've played before was Harley Quinn's one so now I really wanna try this dlc out lol I'm downloading arkham knight the next chance I get

[@music79075]

Alfred at the end their desperately trying to hold back his MI6 training

[@aamirrazak3467]

Alfred has a very good point here. Would it really be the same as breaking Batman’s no kill rule if he’s putting down an enemy whose not in a sound mental state and endangers many others, and who can continue to cause harm and destruction? Sacrificing one for the good of many?

[@someonewhocommentsonyoutub3779]

To me it's as close to murder as taking someone off life support, which is to say not very

[@rolandofgilead43]

@@someonewhocommentsonyoutub3779 i don't consider taking someone off life support murder if they are brain dead now if they are just in a coma and are still there that's a bit different but if they are brain dead and nothing can be saved that's mercy i think. nobody wants to live like that

[@ghostplasma5590]

@@rolandofgilead43 agreed. If the person is brain dead it is pretty much dead. It's body isn't but the person is. If however this person is simply in a coma then it is murder. And Ra's REVIVES himself. He died a long time ago. His body lives. His brain not so much

[@rolandofgilead43]

@@ghostplasma5590 exactly I mean yes people can spend the rest of their life in a coma however some do wake up I dunno the percentage is to be honest but you generally don't have people pull the plug on a coma now if there is nothing there just a shell than yes pull the plug nobody wants to live like that I sure I hope and pray that I never have to make that kind if decision but sadly some do and anne Heche well her family had to make it and I would not want to be them.

[@GrosvnerMcaffrey]

"All those people I murdered by letting you live" Batsy in the dark knight returns to the joker

[@JacksGameReviews]

I'll stand by you, whatever you choose. I wuv you alfwed

[@puffpuffpassmako]

I love how this side mission still managed to stay true to Bruce's character no matter the ending you pick Save: Bruce doesn't let him die and sticks to his strict code, even though it'll just repeat the cycle of his villains and he'll once again have to stop him Smash cure ending: Bruce lets a man who prolonged an impossible life, a man who went against nature, life and death itself, and has already died multiple times only to be resurrected, to finally have peace. Ras isn't considered alive at this point. His body is slowly rotting away from being on this earth too long. That is NOT living

[@Kalenz1234]

"All the people I've murdered by letting you live. No more!" Old Batman to Joker.

[@BrottenGuy]

One of the best points EVER made, by ANY iteration, variation, version of Alfred, from any Universe. That’s a long list, being that he’s Bruce’s voice of reason. …and he has very SOUND reasoning here!

[@dexter_b2860]

"What would you do Alfred?" He'd put Ras in the dirt ong

[@kakiboi8267]

If alfred never said that i probably would have gotten the really bad ending

[@calamityknyte]

Coming back to this. Thinking about it...R'as dies either way. How he dies here is simply up to you. Let him die as himself, or kill his mind to bring back the Demon.

[@imaginul]

He always makes good points

[@AngryGooseChieftain]

Ahh batman. Always pushing the limits of how much you can damage humans without TECHNICALLY killing them

[@pedroguaragna8519]

Saving Ra's is the most accurate Batman choice. Just from the dialogue after its you can get that feeling too. Talia's sister saying that his stubbornness is what made Talia love him or Ra's saying he's proud that Batman finally took a life. And also from Batman Hush "if I can save a life, I have to try it"

[@motodog242]

He had no problem killing Clayface in City. He had no problem letting Talia get killed by Joker. And he truly only had a problem with Joker killing himself. Ra’s is an easy choice of not saving, just like he could’ve saved Talia, he should let Ra’s have his fate come to a conclusion. He’s barely Ra’s anymore, his brain’s been oxygen-deprived multiple times that it’s a miracle he can lead a bunch of assassins, let alone still be able to fight. Anyways, I saved him too, since he’s Batman and has to save people… And my reward? Batman backed out of a family fight that ends yet another demon daughter’s life. Either way, someone dies because you decided to not help.

[@szabok1999]

@@motodog242 He didn't kill Clayface, he probably knew that wouldn't kill him, and OF COURSE he had a problem with Talia's death. He didn't "let it", he couldn't stop it.

[@CHRISCAMPO-wq8bi]

Except there's a huge difference between this game's situation with Ra's and what you're referring to from Batman Hush (a decent movie that did the source material a huge disservice), and it goes without explanation. Besides, the canon in these games alone, not to mention dialogue in this mission, dictates the canon choice would've been Batman breaking the machine. The dialogue you're referring to, in its entirety, makes the save choice anticlimatic, and not just cuz its the last game of the series.

[@CHRISCAMPO-wq8bi]

I love Batman and his no-kill rule, even in injustice when its really put into question to some degree, but the way this whole situation was written, extending from things said and done in city, the no-save option is def canon. Hell, even in mainstream modern comics, there's a similar storyline to this when both Talia and Nyssa betray and kill Ras, and Batman cremates the body, and this was well into Batman's history of not killing, unlike really old comics where Batman regularly killed and lasered Ras and sent his ashes into space.

[@Garrus1995]

I think that deep down, Bruce wants to be like his father; a doctor, someone who saves lives. He believes that a life is always worth saving if possible, even if said life belongs to a supernatural criminal mastermind. He’s really not all that different from Superman when you break it down.

[@mas8705]

Batman contemplates taking a life while he leaves the streets and rooftops littered with men who have been beaten to an inch of their life. The difficult decisions of Batman.

[@shinmalphur2734]

My first play through I destroyed the the machine and I didn’t regret it. My second go around I resurrected him and did regret it. The man’s already lived longer than anyone else and died a few times already. That and the fact that the League is more dangerous with him at the helm, so preventing his resurrection seemed the logical choice to me. Or, if watched batman beings: “I’m not gonna kill you, but I don’t have to save you either”

[@suezo7]

Such an awesome game series

[@habijjj]

I mean Alfred isn't wrong batman doesn't have a problem with killing grundy since he's literally already dead you could make the same decision. Plus this falls into the same logic as the Nolan movies batman doesn't kill but he doesn't have to save them.

[@OhNoTheFace]

Movie was EXTREMELY lazy and incorrect about that whole set up