Algorithms are ruining the music industry (+ your taste)

[@necroticdarkness]

I'm one of those few that don't touch spofity at all. I still buy (and download) a lot of music, CDs, vinyl, and tape. Bandcamp is my go to for buying, or sometimes the label's website. It does help most of what I listen to are from independant artists or labels. The artists are often quite grateful when they make a sale, and I'm sure they enjoy seeing their music listened to by people all over the world. That $10-30 I pay for that CD (and shipping) probably gives them way more than a streaming service does. Also, what's the piano piece playing at the end?

[@arbitersofsound]

You’re one of the good guys then I guess, I can definitely see how for many people buying all the music they listen to is unaffordable at those prices or how the temptation of the deal of having millions of tracks available with one monthly fee is appealing, but no doubt that buying directly is the best way to support the artist! And the piano piece is an original by us :) (as is all of the music aside from the obvious callouts to Coldplay and Radiohead)

[@floretion]

I remember how nice it was for me as an American visiting Germany for the first time in the 90s, going in to record stores where they had headphone stands all around and you could actually listen to some songs before commiting to buying an album. In the US as a kid, decisions on where to spend my hard earned lawn mowing money were generally taken via word of mouth or, as you say, purely by attempting to judge album covers.

[@arbitersofsound]

I remember those stands existing in London in the late 90s / early 00s as well! In Greece, where I would buy most of my albums, the guy would open the cd case from the hinge side (so he wouldn't break the seal) and then play the album over the PA for you... (he also probably was the john cusack / high fidelity type)

[@floretion]

@@arbitersofsound Cool- that's a professional tip on how not to break the seal. One album I bought when I was 13 by the album cover alone and didn't regret was from the band "Alien Sex Fiend". As Rick Beato mentioned on the topic of why music has changed so much since the 80s, back then (before spotify, etc.) you got an album and had to live with it. This often led people to realize that, on the 3rd or 4th listening, the songs were actually beginning to grow on them, and in doing so expanded their musical horizons.

[@djellisdee]

Great talk! Lots of interesting & valid points clearly laid out here. These problems with algorithm bias also apply to many other areas in society (finance, credit, underwriting, banking, payments, etc.)

[@arbitersofsound]

Thank you! Yeah they definitely exist everywhere and in some cases can mess with people’s livelihoods like the ones you pointed out. I guess recommendation algos are a bit more innocent on the surface but can really shift incentives for the people creating the things being recommended

[@LucasVidela]

Great content! I follow you since you were making videos about connectors, and I love how this channel has evolved. Keep going on!!

[@arbitersofsound]

Thanks man! We really appreciate it!

[@soundpear]

Great video Berk! Keep up the good work 👍

[@arbitersofsound]

Thanks man!!!!

[@quackywhackityphillyb.3005]

Here before this goes viral :)

[@arbitersofsound]

Haha I’ll take this as a confidence vote, thanks for being here!

[@frumiousgaming]

Like you talked about musicians making music to target certain features of the album (like the first 30 seconds thing), I wonder what musicians did back in the day to get more radio play, or even 300 years ago to get more support from wealthy patrons (idk if that’s how music worked 300 years ago but you know)

[@arbitersofsound]

Ooh yeah that’s interesting to think about - I know that composers would often work for the church in order to make money which in effect is changing their music to fit a certain goal, but not too sure about whether they did anything to impress wealthy patrons. Might do some research and maybe make a video if there’s enough content there, who knows! Anyway thanks for watching and for the comment!

[@hurdygurdyguy1]

"Back in the day" band promoters/managers would pay local djs to play the band's songs more frequently to boost interest. It was called Payola and was eventually ruled illegal...

[@qljo42]

At 7:40 you talk about the effects that can have on listeners and then that you’ll go more into details later. Also a minute later regarding those effects you day we‘ll discuss all that. But actually the discussion then is only about the music industry and the impact on musicians, not consumers. I was hoping that you would reveal some secrets how people‘s and specifically children’s minds are fu….d by these bubbles nach chambers and that they won’t get out and forever ruin their music taste, that it actually contributes to them being ignorant individuals developing really irritating characters. But I didn’t get that in the video. Please can I ask you if you may do another video pointing these very important bullet points out? Thank you

[@thomasslone1964]

they ruined very thing, chat rooms, dating sites, auction sites, social media, forums, even wiki

[@Deysha-Poyser]

Really interesting. Many thanks for this and the apps's recommendation. Critical and independent thinking is something we desperately need for our own sanity. I would add: "independent sensitivity," but it sounds weird; autonomous sensitivity sounds better. To look after how we value and love things.

[@arbitersofsound]

Thanks! And yeah agreed, it’s important to think and understand how things work so that you can figure out how your actions affect other things/people

[@calvint6434]

wow this is very elaborative. this is why im an album type of listener, i dont want the algorithm to be making suggestions for me. nor do i want to discover any music heard from promotion, it does end up with me literally knowing nothing about music today and rather everything in the 20th century, i might as well be reading a newspaper from 66'. but socializing with other music lovers and musicians who has actual good music taste instead of marketed music taste, does introduce me to some interesting kinds of music. though it does get hard finding such people irl, the majority of society has fallen for the carbon copied content marketing to the point where it feels isolating for me, worse i get ridiculed for my interests rather than given a chance. but nah i'd rather be born in the mid 50s honestly. grow up to witness evolution rather than grow up to witness a hopeless devolution.

[@arbitersofsound]

Probably getting recommendations from friends is still the best way :D

[@finn7453]

Wait how does this have less than 1000 views, I thought it would be easily over 1M

[@arbitersofsound]

Haha we’re still a small channel so we don’t quite have the reach yet, but feel free to share the video with people who might like it so that we can grow! And thanks for the kind comment!

[@hurdygurdyguy1]

An alternative to Napster was around called eMule and was constrained to a dial up connection (and even that was throttled now and then)! Downloading an mp3 tune was slo-o-o-o-w, maybe an hour for a three to five minute song (and then the connection might be cut by someone in the house picking up the phone to make a call 🤣) If there were a number of tunes in the queue you'd have to leave it download overnight and hope in the morning the connection hadn't been lost! Boy, those were the days! 23:30 ... Praise to the Algorithms! All Hail the Algorithms!! But, ...but, which Algorithms? 🤔 Is there a One True Algorithm and many false Algorithms? Which One do I bow down to??!!

[@arbitersofsound]

emule and kazaa :D :D and mislabeled songs for some time I thought half of radiohead's kid a was a prog metal album

[@hurdygurdyguy1]

@@arbitersofsound Same!!! 🤣🤣🤣 Trading bootleg tapes through the mail seemed somehow more satisfying back then 😆

[@briumphbimbles]

My taste is great, but then I dont listen to music Spotify serves me I search for the music I want and play that and if they dont have it I go elsewhere. The discovery tools on most platforms is so fucking terrible that its no wonder that most people are happy to listen to the dog shit they have been convinced is music.

[@arbitersofsound]

You can imagine how bad it can get if great music becomes incredibly difficult to discover. And obviously the potential lack of motivation for it to be created in the first place...

[@mdgsteeplejack4711]

Nope. Still Black Metak as usual.