Alibre vs FreeCAD - The tale of a wrong Workflow (#1)

[@RoadSideMaker]

Let me know if you find this video helpful and share your ideas

[@steveburzinski3923]

I created the model in FreeCAD 0.21.2, and it updated correctly after changing the overall dimensions from 60 x 50 to 70 x 40. For the sketch where the update had broken on yours, I had to create the circle overlapping the arc. Otherwise, I believe I had duplicated your workflow up through that sketch.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@steveburzinski3923 I show this without arcs in second video as well. It is the sketch solver problem, when it technically fulfils defined constraints, but not exactly in the way they were constructed after high degree of dimension change - kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3LKqWynpsioaqc

[@alexstone691]

I used the old freecad for so long, this new version is magic now, so many good improvements

[@RoadSideMaker]

Yeah, I like the direction it is going

[@GuillaumeJACQUIN]

Nice vid ! Thanks for sharing 👍 You can click with the midle mouse button on part or a face to center the rotation view on it... I've got tryed them all, Plasticity, blender, Ds mechanical, Fusion, Atom Alibre, Onshape, Shaper3D, Sketchup... ! I always return to Freecad, but with a lot of frustration ! I think the 1.0 version is a good perspective for parametric 3D cad... Waiting for yours videos Thanks you

[@RoadSideMaker]

Thank you for kind words! Looks like we are in the same boat! I use multiple CADs even for the same project to achieve the result I want. New videos are already in the making

[@andre-7423]

FreeCAD is SO much more (like FEM workbench and much more ), and it is FOSS ! - it just works, and I will be able to open my projects years later too. Alibre is not honest enough to even list their prices. It is hard to see why I would choose them. ...unless to pay per month/year in all the years from now on.

[@RoadSideMaker]

FreeCAD is great. Alibre is great too. You pay once and you have the license forever. You will be able to use it and open your projects 10 years from now. There is no subscription. And only if new and exiting feature comes out, you can optionally purchase the update for a fraction of the license price. And they do not penalize you for missed update cycles. They are USA company and prices for USA are published on their website. However when you are in Europe, for example, you are directed to the different page. They operate through resellers . Take German reseller - alibre.info/alibre-preisliste.html , you will find all the prices listed there as well.

[@miriades]

@@RoadSideMakerdoes Alibra have a Linux version like FreeCAD?

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@miriades Unfortunately no, Alibre is Windows only :( I believe it to be the biggest shortcoming. Otherwise it is a great CAD software.

[@miriades]

@@RoadSideMakeroh I see. I’ll stick to FreeCAD for CAD learning then 😊 thanks.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@miriades I will give two more advices, if you don't mind. First - check out videos for other CAD softwares as well. Some tools may be different, but techniques can be universal and will allow you to understand modeling more in-depth. For example, I have never used SolidWorks, however I watch SolidWorks tutorials all the time. Second advice is - check my video on FreeCAD 'Reliability' workflow - should help you to avoid some common pitfalls

[@loughkb]

Freecad is an incredible value for the price.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Unbeatable, I'd say

[@deterdamel7380]

FreeCAD fits my needs. Alibre Atom3D cost 215€ + 60€/year (for Updates).

[@RoadSideMaker]

Great to hear that. Hope new FreeCAD 1.0 will enhance your experience even more. Love the RC1

[@hv1461]

Great analysis, thank you. My takeaway is that FreeCAD, even the new version 1.0 is not usable, from a practical point of view, when compared to Fusion360 (free version) in the sense that the necessary workflow is tedious. Just the fact that you can't easily project geometries from existing bodies onto sketch planes seems like a show stopper to me. Also, not facility for 3D sketching seems like a show stopper too as 3D sketching is very useful in many situations. Do you (or anyone) agree or disagree ?

[@RoadSideMaker]

Thank you. I would disagree that it is unusable. Just not for the top-down approach. I see there is active work on github to improve projection tool. Looks like it will be on par with other CAD software's. But remember, that Fusion360 free version is not without it gotchas - no commercial use (1000$ a year is very tight) and project files are online. I am not exactly comfortable with that

[@hv1461]

@@RoadSideMaker Thanks. I am watching your other videos now. With the release of FreeCAD 1.0 I think there are going to be a large number of people who are lets say advanced hobbyists who are quite proficient at Fusion 360 (free version) that are giving consideration to FreeCAD. In fact, we want to use FreeCAD if at all possible for a variety of reasons like the ones you mentioned and more (limit of 10 editable files is annoying). But if the FreeCAD workflow is highly encumbered, we don't want to invest the time into making the transition. It seems to me you have exactly the right knowledge and experience to address this discussion and I think if you had a series on this it could help a lot of people and help your channel grow. Is is really feasible to move from Fusion 360 to FreeCAD 1.0 ? And if so, what modifications do we need to make to our workflow. It's great news that projection is being worked on. I'll follow the issues on GitHub now too. I had thought that 3D sketching is also a pretty big limitation too. There might be others. But then again, maybe there are reasonable workarounds with mods to our workflow ? Or, it could be that in the coming months it could be time to jump in if certain key features like projection are developed. I do already like that FreeCAD is not cloud based and it is much more responsive on my system (Mac Mini M4). Thanks again for your videos and for sharing your knowledge on these matters. KZbin is amazing when you find capable people willing to share their knowledge on specific issues and when I find such channels I always contribute.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Hey, I appreciate longer format engagement in comments! So here you have some more - I totally get you. I am coming from IT industry and am familiar what vendor locking is and how hard is to escape it. So agnostic solutions are getting track, meaning they will work same without regard for the platform. For CAD your experience is agnostic. All parametric feature based CAD solutions are very similar. So moving between them should be pretty easy. Forgive me if I am wrong, but if you are using free Fusion tier I would assume you are not doing CAD for business so there should be less friction and "cost" of moving to different CAD package. If you are not regularly reusing an modifying previous parts in new projects, there should be little to no dependency to the vendor. What I am trying to say is, if it is possible in your case, take your knowledge and experience and try other options. Will you find your forever cad? Probably not. I look at software as tools. For example this week I had modeled and printed like 5 different parts for adapting lenses to enlargers. (I will probably do the video on those) These parts require printed threads that are not a part of my usual workflow. I could model those in any cad, but why suffer. Quick google and it happens that Onshape has great community plugin to make threads with a click of a button. Never used Onshape for projects, but now this was the right tool for the job. Fun fact, I watched like 10 hour course for SolidWorks on youtube (vertanux1 if you are interested). I will probably never work with or especially own Solidworks licence. However I use techniques from the course both in FreeCAD and Alibre. Basically knowledge is transferable and don't limit yourself, experiment and have fun :)

[@hv1461]

@RoadSideMaker Thanks. Those are really interesting points of view which got me thinking about different things. Much appreciated.

[@RoadSideMaker]

You are welcome!

[@stuartgibson9755]

FreeCAD needs a complete overhaul to make it user friendly like what happend with Blender.

[@RoadSideMaker]

The overhaul is in progress with v1.0 and hopefully it will not stop there

[@excitedbox5705]

I wish they would get together with some of the UI/UX forks and join forces to overhaul freeCAD.

[@RoadSideMaker]

I probably am used to it, but, especially with 1.0, have no problems with the UI

[@t.mollov566]

21:29 FreeCAD have different workbenches, because of that you should choice the best one for it - for example here i think using Part workbench would be more beneficial that part design workbench. 27:20 similar here - user error,

[@RoadSideMaker]

That is not a user error. That is solver in sketcher recomputing and finding different solution for provided constraints. Maybe part would be more usfull, however I am focusing on classic feature based workflows

[@AM-yk5yd]

My local resellers don't even show price for alibre design - you are supposed to contact them to request it. What I dislike about atom is it doesn't have scripting support. Oh, speaking of the ultimate scripting. Since Halloween is approaching, I recommend checking BRL CAD as a spooky CAD package(by modern standards). Released in 1983, most recent stable update was this August, however it's still obscure. I like new version of freecad. It crashed so often previously I've switched to blender(as it for 3d printing my models it was fine). Now freecad is so much better: I managed to make 50 exercises from grabcad to test if freecad is defended enough against me clicking what is not supposed to be clicked - surprisingly it went fine. In previous versions I managed to crash and loss progress.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Hey, thanks for bringing BRL CAD to my attention. I will check it out. Yes, FreeCAD 1.0 is a big step forward, still some work to be done, but much better. Regarding Atom, Germany reseller website has nice one pager with all the prices listed.

[@alexandermckenzie5077]

You could easily use a single sketch to build this box in FreeCAD, and a good deal faster. IMO, FreeCAD is something of a victim of its amateurs. No two CAD platforms are the same; they all have their workflow quirks, and professional users all develop preferences based on their familiarities with the workflow of their particular software. There are relatively few professional users of FreeCAD; most FreeCAD users are amateurs, and professional users of other CAD platforms approach it with unfamiliarity as a curiosity and abandon it when its workflow is too different from the software they are comfortable with. You don't learn streamlined workflows without regularly using the software (and there are much more streamlined workflows than shown here.)

[@RoadSideMaker]

Hey, thank you for the input. Just to point your attention that we agree - the video is titled "tale of the Wrong workflow" indicating that not all approaches are for every cad system. The point of the video is a top down in context approach. Alibre and FreeCAD happen to be my tools, so they are used for demonstration. And the box is arbitrary, it is not a tutorial for the box. So we are on the same page here

[@Paulklampeeps]

Is there any hope that shape binder will be obsolete and we will be able to reference other objects without it, also will the external geometry be able to be toggled on as a solid line ? Thanks!

[@RoadSideMaker]

Much work is done lately. It gives hope for fast growth for FreeCAD. I believe that it is possible we will see the toggle for external geometry reference/solid in FreeCAD eventually. The demonstration for that is planned in a video number 4, so stay tuned. (Spoiler - it is FreeCAD Link Branch). Shape binder are the "way" how to reference the external geometry. I don't expect it to change. However the creation of the binder can be automated - when you try to reference the external geometry, it would be created automatically. (Link Branch has that as well)

[@Paulklampeeps]

I tried the freecad link branch but I can't seem to import step files( i mean it's there in the feature tree but I can't see it) what might be the solution for that? Thanks!

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@Paulklampeeps Just imported a step file in Link Branch. There is no history to the part, because STEP does not contain it. Otherwise geometry and even color is preserved. You use File->Import command and in the tree you should see a Part object (yellow icon) and inside it a body (blue icon). Check if visibility for both is enabled.

[@langrock74]

Saying that Atom3D and their higher-end solutions do the same just with a different number of clicks is not correct. There are significant difference between these versions, one being direct modeling capability in their Design Pro version, for example. Also, there are no boolean operations in Atom3D as far as I know. Don't get me wrong, Atom3D is great for the price, especially when on sale, but you quickly realize that the feature set lacks significantly behind what Freecad offers. With V1 of Freecad, it appears that the stability was greatly improved and there are now more and more solid tutorials that teach how to use the tool. Furthermore, as a macOS / Linux user, it's a native solution and doesn't require Wine or VMs.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Hey, I see your point. In all of my projects I needed boolean only once. Direct modeling features in higher tiers are nice, but you usually do not design arround them. I discuss my usecase for offset face as tool for clearances in one of my videos. But it can can be achieved with design spark mechanical that costs 10$ per months and easily cancelled after parts are modified if one would really need it. So I would say that in 95% of my usecases, Atom is more than enough, just more clicks. But those clicks do stack up and i see how it is a turnoff. Had a chance to upgrade to Design, but not for the Atom limitations reasons. However I agree that FreeCAD 1.0 should create pressure on Atom3D as new sketcher is fantastic. Atom and Alibre in general are superior compared to FreeCAD in top down design scenarios. And those are almost exlusivelly my usecases. By the way on Alibre forums i see buzz that linux and mac versions might be comming.

[@MrConstantCrash]

I would love to switch from Fusion to Alibre, but Alibre is windows only and I, like many am a Mac user.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Yeah, thats a downside on Alibre part, for sure

[@henninghoefer]

What I learned from this video is that Alibre Atom is kneecapped to the point of uselessness. No center point rectangle... 😢 FreeCADs workflow is death by a thousand papercuts. And yes, I just tried the new 1.0-RC.

[@RoadSideMaker]

I wouldn't put it that way. One of the best practices of sketching is to create approximate figure without any constraints automatic and then constrain it the way you need. So it is a part of design intent - auto constraint is not always what you want. With Alibre and center rectangle - add two symmetric constraints and you are there. Hardly kneecapped, but you do need to put in more clicks. But that is irrelevant for me if I get stable and reliable models. As I look at it, the price justifies imposed limitations. As for FreeCAD, you get used to it. I still use it and new sketcher in 1.0 is great. So I would use FreeCAD for fast one part designs to print, but Alibre for work where stability is more important.

[@Irongrip62]

@@RoadSideMaker Frankly gating sketch primitives behind payment is insulting. Another hilarious omission I saw from the pricing list is being able to Boolean operator cut through multiple assemblies with one extrusion. I wouldn't give these people any money for this nickel and diming bullshit on principle alone.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@Irongrip62 Could you please let me know, when you find CAD software for 199$ of one time payment with a lifetime license for commercial use. Thank you in advance.

[@Tom-hg9lw]

Is this also happen with FreeCAD 1.0 release candidate?

[@RoadSideMaker]

Haven't tested this workflow with RC, but will test with full 1.0 release, when it coms out. However FreeCAD is not exactly suited for this workflow as it is focused on reducing dependencies between parts

[@MisterkeTube]

Honestly, both look so unnecessarily complicated compared to Fusion or OnShape. For a simple box like that, why would you need more than a single sketch and some extrudes from that sketch? If you want to make things fancy, you could then add some variables to define the important dimensions of your design, but even with that, I guess it would take you less than 5 minutes to make the entire thing in either of those (arguably commercial) packages. Really, FreeCAD developers should stop digging themselves into their own concepts on how the CAD package should work and take over the concepts from those user-friendly commercial packages. With the latest changes to FreeCAD there finally seems to be some movement in that direction, but there's still a very long way to go ...

[@RoadSideMaker]

It seems that you are talking about layout sketch and multiple extrudes based on selected profiles in this sketch. Alibre and FreeCAD don't have that (freecad 1.0 does have edge selection as new feature but not profile) profile selection from sketch. They both adhere to practice of one sketch one feature which makes sketches simpler. When you are collaborating, everyone on the team should be able to read sketch easily. With layout sketches that could be more difficult. On top of that, companies that use CAD software have their own rules for modeling all designers have to adhere. So even if the CAD package can do faster modeling, the company rules may forbid the use of that technique. Now this video is not a tutorial on designing a simple box. It can be done much faster in both FreeCAD and Alibre indeed. The point of the video is to demonstrate the Top-Down or In-Context modeling workflow approach. Box is just arbitrary for ease of demonstration.

[@MisterkeTube]

@@RoadSideMaker This is the exact behavior I also find back in FreeCAD developers: they keep finding arguments to force users into their own mindset rather than making stuff as easy and flexible to use as possible. It's like talking to a brick wall ...

[@RoadSideMaker]

To each their own. I would suggest not to assume the brick wall and to explore the arguments deeper even if you do not agree with those. There are reasons behind these arguments.

[@BeefIngot]

I totally feel you here. The sketch thing is makes both of these basically unusable due to how painfully slow it makes things. Hearing continuous copium for poor workflow boils my blood.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Lets hope it improves

[@LordHog]

I am looking to create designs for woodworking. Is FreeCAD or Albre ok for that or is Sketchup a better tool?

[@RoadSideMaker]

When woodworking is involved, i hear Sketchup and Autocad to be most popular choices. FreeCAD has a dedicated workbench for that, check this fellow youtuber www.youtube.com/@dprojects.woodworking

[@AndreMonthy]

For woodworking try FreeCAD for CAD, EstlCAM for CAM or Vectric (both CAD & CAM). I know FreeCAD has CAM workbench but its not that good right now.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Great suggestions

[@LordHog]

@@AndreMonthythank you for the suggestion

[@LordHog]

@@RoadSideMakerthanks! I will look into these suggestions. Thanks again

[@Todestelzer]

I would switch to Alibre design from fusion 360 if the CAM wouldn’t be so good in fusion. I recommend everyone to get Alibre Design. Atom is ok, but as far I know no Boolean operations available.

[@hypocritical7379]

i havent had this issue with freecad before, it could be a windows issue (as always), or your dev build is way out of date (probably the latter)

[@RoadSideMaker]

I have had these issues in official releases 0.20 and 0.21. Video shows the most unreliable method of modeling interconnected parts. Next video will show the god practice and no issues.

[@hypocritical7379]

@@RoadSideMaker so software can improve, freecad is a good example of this. FreeCAD 1.0 release candidates are releasing soon, please try this test again, I think you will be surprised with how much better FreeCAD has gotten in a year

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@hypocritical7379 Fully agree, FreeCAD is improving rapidly. I am always using latest development version. Now when RC1 is live, I am testing it our as well

[@wilsonmarroquin4299]

Alibre is free???

[@RoadSideMaker]

No, it is not, but the pricing is better with the perpetual license compared to subscriptions.

[@Todestelzer]

Way better. Paying 400€ for fusion 360 every year. Only the CAM is holding me back buying Alibre design.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@Todestelzer When I thought purchasing Fusion, they announced the price increase. It would be around 700€ per year for me. Dodged a bullet there

[@Todestelzer]

@@RoadSideMaker I had to pay 400€ this year. I think you’re getting a discount if you’re already subscribed? Checked it right now and it says 455€ next year 01/25. It says Fusion - Legacy 2024

[@RoadSideMaker]

Ye, you are getting a nice discount. I could live with 400, just checked it says 757€ for a year.

[@MrLelopes]

I am a simple man, I see someone pro advising for a subscription software, I downvote it. And Report it as the spam it is.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Alibre is one time purchase for life-time license. With optional version upgrades, if one chooses to. But you do you

[@MrLelopes]

@@RoadSideMaker No price listing on site? "ask for a reseller to contact you". YEah.. being there just shady business models. I know where this is going.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@MrLelopes No you don't. They have listing on their site if you access it from USA and Canada. Other countries are served through resellers. Guess what? Resellers have pricelists. e.g. Germany alibre.info/alibre-preisliste.html Same goes for other countries.

[@gcewing]

Not intending to use it, but out of curiosity I tried to find prices on their site. Found a bunch of "Go to reseller website" links. I'm in New Zealand so I tried that one. 403 - Forbidden error. All right, what about Australia then? 403 error. Tried a frew other random countries -- all 403. What about USA, surely that one will work? It shows me NO entries for USA or Canada. It looks like they don't actually want any business with anyone outside North America.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Hey, for USA and Canada they are selling direct. No info on Oceania, I will drop support q message that reseller webs not available. Foe Europe almost all countries have prices