Alibre vs FreeCAD - The tale of a wrong Workflow (#1)

[@RoadSideMaker]

Let me know if you find this video helpful and share your ideas

[@steveburzinski3923]

I created the model in FreeCAD 0.21.2, and it updated correctly after changing the overall dimensions from 60 x 50 to 70 x 40. For the sketch where the update had broken on yours, I had to create the circle overlapping the arc. Otherwise, I believe I had duplicated your workflow up through that sketch.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@steveburzinski3923 I show this without arcs in second video as well. It is the sketch solver problem, when it technically fulfils defined constraints, but not exactly in the way they were constructed after high degree of dimension change - kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3LKqWynpsioaqc

[@alexstone691]

I used the old freecad for so long, this new version is magic now, so many good improvements

[@RoadSideMaker]

Yeah, I like the direction it is going

[@andre-7423]

FreeCAD is SO much more (like FEM workbench and much more ), and it is FOSS ! - it just works, and I will be able to open my projects years later too. Alibre is not honest enough to even list their prices. It is hard to see why I would choose them. ...unless to pay per month/year in all the years from now on.

[@RoadSideMaker]

FreeCAD is great. Alibre is great too. You pay once and you have the license forever. You will be able to use it and open your projects 10 years from now. There is no subscription. And only if new and exiting feature comes out, you can optionally purchase the update for a fraction of the license price. And they do not penalize you for missed update cycles. They are USA company and prices for USA are published on their website. However when you are in Europe, for example, you are directed to the different page. They operate through resellers . Take German reseller - alibre.info/alibre-preisliste.html , you will find all the prices listed there as well.

[@miriades]

@@RoadSideMakerdoes Alibra have a Linux version like FreeCAD?

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@miriades Unfortunately no, Alibre is Windows only :( I believe it to be the biggest shortcoming. Otherwise it is a great CAD software.

[@miriades]

@@RoadSideMakeroh I see. I’ll stick to FreeCAD for CAD learning then 😊 thanks.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@miriades I will give two more advices, if you don't mind. First - check out videos for other CAD softwares as well. Some tools may be different, but techniques can be universal and will allow you to understand modeling more in-depth. For example, I have never used SolidWorks, however I watch SolidWorks tutorials all the time. Second advice is - check my video on FreeCAD 'Reliability' workflow - should help you to avoid some common pitfalls

[@deterdamel7380]

FreeCAD fits my needs. Alibre Atom3D cost 215€ + 60€/year (for Updates).

[@RoadSideMaker]

Great to hear that. Hope new FreeCAD 1.0 will enhance your experience even more. Love the RC1

[@GuillaumeJACQUIN]

Nice vid ! Thanks for sharing 👍 You can click with the midle mouse button on part or a face to center the rotation view on it... I've got tryed them all, Plasticity, blender, Ds mechanical, Fusion, Atom Alibre, Onshape, Shaper3D, Sketchup... ! I always return to Freecad, but with a lot of frustration ! I think the 1.0 version is a good perspective for parametric 3D cad... Waiting for yours videos Thanks you

[@RoadSideMaker]

Thank you for kind words! Looks like we are in the same boat! I use multiple CADs even for the same project to achieve the result I want. New videos are already in the making

[@AM-yk5yd]

My local resellers don't even show price for alibre design - you are supposed to contact them to request it. What I dislike about atom is it doesn't have scripting support. Oh, speaking of the ultimate scripting. Since Halloween is approaching, I recommend checking BRL CAD as a spooky CAD package(by modern standards). Released in 1983, most recent stable update was this August, however it's still obscure. I like new version of freecad. It crashed so often previously I've switched to blender(as it for 3d printing my models it was fine). Now freecad is so much better: I managed to make 50 exercises from grabcad to test if freecad is defended enough against me clicking what is not supposed to be clicked - surprisingly it went fine. In previous versions I managed to crash and loss progress.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Hey, thanks for bringing BRL CAD to my attention. I will check it out. Yes, FreeCAD 1.0 is a big step forward, still some work to be done, but much better. Regarding Atom, Germany reseller website has nice one pager with all the prices listed.

[@alexandermckenzie5077]

You could easily use a single sketch to build this box in FreeCAD, and a good deal faster. IMO, FreeCAD is something of a victim of its amateurs. No two CAD platforms are the same; they all have their workflow quirks, and professional users all develop preferences based on their familiarities with the workflow of their particular software. There are relatively few professional users of FreeCAD; most FreeCAD users are amateurs, and professional users of other CAD platforms approach it with unfamiliarity as a curiosity and abandon it when its workflow is too different from the software they are comfortable with. You don't learn streamlined workflows without regularly using the software (and there are much more streamlined workflows than shown here.)

[@RoadSideMaker]

Hey, thank you for the input. Just to point your attention that we agree - the video is titled "tale of the Wrong workflow" indicating that not all approaches are for every cad system. The point of the video is a top down in context approach. Alibre and FreeCAD happen to be my tools, so they are used for demonstration. And the box is arbitrary, it is not a tutorial for the box. So we are on the same page here

[@t.mollov566]

21:29 FreeCAD have different workbenches, because of that you should choice the best one for it - for example here i think using Part workbench would be more beneficial that part design workbench. 27:20 similar here - user error,

[@RoadSideMaker]

That is not a user error. That is solver in sketcher recomputing and finding different solution for provided constraints. Maybe part would be more usfull, however I am focusing on classic feature based workflows

[@stuartgibson9755]

FreeCAD needs a complete overhaul to make it user friendly like what happend with Blender.

[@RoadSideMaker]

The overhaul is in progress with v1.0 and hopefully it will not stop there

[@excitedbox5705]

I wish they would get together with some of the UI/UX forks and join forces to overhaul freeCAD.

[@RoadSideMaker]

I probably am used to it, but, especially with 1.0, have no problems with the UI

[@Tom-hg9lw]

Is this also happen with FreeCAD 1.0 release candidate?

[@RoadSideMaker]

Haven't tested this workflow with RC, but will test with full 1.0 release, when it coms out. However FreeCAD is not exactly suited for this workflow as it is focused on reducing dependencies between parts

[@dougj8186]

No, the Alibre license is not forever. Yes, you can open your own designs, but if you don't pay for yearly maintenance you won't be able to open future designs past your build. For example, you can't follow troubleshooting discussions on the forum because you can't open the files. Add in maintenance and Alibre will quickly become costly to use. Further, Alibre Atom, the alternative to FreeCAD, is so dumbed down and gutted of key features, I regret the $150 I paid for it and no longer use it. FreeCAD has a steeper learning curve and is less polished but it has more features.

[@RoadSideMaker]

I am sorry to hear you had a bad experience with Alibre. However I have to strongly disagree. And oh boy this will be long one. First let me say I am an avid FreeCAD user and will not stop using it despite me having Alibre license. CAD software are tools to achieve desired results and not team sports to root for. I use 3 CADs simultaneously - FreeCAD, Alibre and Design Spark Mechanical (played) and each one does something different for me. Now back to Alibre. You are promised a perpetual/forever license which you get. You are NOT promised - set for life scenario. New versions cost money to develop. It would be required to have huge and endless influx of new users (lets take Atom3d for 150$) to be able to produce future versions. If there is no influx in this scenario, no money to produce new versions, business stops existing as it goes bankrupt. The only software I know that does "set for life" is Davinci Resolve Studio for video editing - you buy once and get all the updates. That is crazy but they offset that by selling hardware that costs tens of thousands dollars. So it is either subscription or perpetual with paid upgrades - I will choose perpetual every time. Now the maintenance is very friendly as well, they do not require you to purchase each subsequent year. Yet again - it is *not* a subscription. Say you have missed 3 years of maintenance and new feature comes out you really want or you really need to open new version files - you only pay for 1 current year of maintenance. And coming from IT field, that is also unheard off. Vendor usually either charges you for each missed year or sets heavy fines. So in this scenario 50$ for Atom if you really need it after 3 years - it is a no brainer. I am active on Alibre forums and it is like the nicest experience I have ever had with the vendor. Alibre team is active there as well. Try that with like Adobe forums. My bug report there has no interaction from the team for like 4 years now. And I pay *monthly* for that software. No Atom is not gutted of key features. It lacks "presets" - the combination of tools that make your workflow faster, like center rectangle. In Atom you will need to use a corner rectangle and 2 symmetry constraints to achieve center rectangle. They have removed "time savers" to differentiate the versions. And thank them for that. There is no alternative for commercial parametric CAD product for 150$ perpetual. I have videos planned in pipeline going through differences between Atom and Design version and then videos showing how you can archive the same results.

[@dougj8186]

@@RoadSideMaker No "alternative for commercial parametric CAD product for 150$ perpetual"? Fusion 360 for hobby use is free, a fully developed professional CAD program, only missing a couple of things like high speed tool paths. A person would have to be crazy to pay for a CAD program unless they were doing commercial work, and that can be up to $2,000 per year with the hobby license. It's easily on a par with Alibre Design (now called Pro) which is $999. I didn't have a "bad experience" with Alibre Atom. It just lacks too many features. No 3D modeling, no surfacing or thin extrude, no a lot of things, no 3 point arc, no slots, one type of ellipse, etc., etc. It's basic modeling and not worth the money when there are better options available. Solidworks maker version, also $2,000 limit, is less than the cost of Alibre maintenance per year. It is said to be the equivalent of Solidworks full version, online but files can be stored locally.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Sorry I wasn't clear - there is no alternative for commercial USE parametric CAD product for 150$. So yes, I am using it for commercial purposes. Atom3D has slot, and curved slot as well. They have added it to v28. And Atom3D supports Excel addon, so you have full benefit of global variables. Alibre Design Editions have surfacing, you have thin extrudes, Booleans etc. Now regarding the Fusion (1000$ a year allowance) and Solidworks (2000$ a year allowance) - Lets say you exceed the allowance in any of these products. So what would you do next? Continue using in violation if the agreement or pay for the full version? Migrate your projects elsewhere? Some maths for you - 1000$ in 894 Euro. Fusion base license if 757 Euro. So as soon as you exceed the limit, you should pay 85% of what you have made. And if you count in taxes, you just lost money. And then you pay yearly 757, even if you make less. Because if you don't you are locked out of your projects. Alibre Design has two editions Alibre Design Pro and Alibre Design Expert. Pro is 950$ perpetual and is fully functional - you And yearly maintenance is 360 Euro, compared to 757 Fusion. So Alibre Design Pro is cheaper from year 2. Now Solidworks, yeah. I would suggest to read on user reports on 3D Experience. It just doesn't work. But lets say it works. If you exceed the limit, Solidworks license costs from 4000$ to like 12 000$ with yearly maintenance of ~1500 - 3000$. So again, from price perspective we are talking totally different league.

[@dougj8186]

@@RoadSideMaker Paying $50 to have the slot function in Atom is throwing good money after bad. If you have Alibre Design there is no reason you'd waste the extra effort required to use Atom, FreecCAD, or any other down-grade program, except to promote your KZbin channel. For actual users all this can be taken with a grain of salt.

[@RoadSideMaker]

And the great thing is that you do not have to pay 50. Only if you want to. Now FreeCAD is not a downgrade program in any way, shape or form. CAD software is a tool. If it performs the desired action, I use it. My personal toolbox consists of FreeCAD, Alibre, Designspark Mechanical and I am looking into Plasticity lately. Each of those does something different and something better than others.

[@MrConstantCrash]

I would love to switch from Fusion to Alibre, but Alibre is windows only and I, like many am a Mac user.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Yeah, thats a downside on Alibre part, for sure

[@LordHog]

I am looking to create designs for woodworking. Is FreeCAD or Albre ok for that or is Sketchup a better tool?

[@RoadSideMaker]

When woodworking is involved, i hear Sketchup and Autocad to be most popular choices. FreeCAD has a dedicated workbench for that, check this fellow youtuber www.youtube.com/@dprojects.woodworking

[@AndreMonthy]

For woodworking try FreeCAD for CAD, EstlCAM for CAM or Vectric (both CAD & CAM). I know FreeCAD has CAM workbench but its not that good right now.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Great suggestions

[@LordHog]

@@AndreMonthythank you for the suggestion

[@LordHog]

@@RoadSideMakerthanks! I will look into these suggestions. Thanks again

[@Paulklampeeps]

Is there any hope that shape binder will be obsolete and we will be able to reference other objects without it, also will the external geometry be able to be toggled on as a solid line ? Thanks!

[@RoadSideMaker]

Much work is done lately. It gives hope for fast growth for FreeCAD. I believe that it is possible we will see the toggle for external geometry reference/solid in FreeCAD eventually. The demonstration for that is planned in a video number 4, so stay tuned. (Spoiler - it is FreeCAD Link Branch). Shape binder are the "way" how to reference the external geometry. I don't expect it to change. However the creation of the binder can be automated - when you try to reference the external geometry, it would be created automatically. (Link Branch has that as well)

[@Paulklampeeps]

I tried the freecad link branch but I can't seem to import step files( i mean it's there in the feature tree but I can't see it) what might be the solution for that? Thanks!

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@Paulklampeeps Just imported a step file in Link Branch. There is no history to the part, because STEP does not contain it. Otherwise geometry and even color is preserved. You use File->Import command and in the tree you should see a Part object (yellow icon) and inside it a body (blue icon). Check if visibility for both is enabled.

[@henninghoefer]

What I learned from this video is that Alibre Atom is kneecapped to the point of uselessness. No center point rectangle... 😢 FreeCADs workflow is death by a thousand papercuts. And yes, I just tried the new 1.0-RC.

[@RoadSideMaker]

I wouldn't put it that way. One of the best practices of sketching is to create approximate figure without any constraints automatic and then constrain it the way you need. So it is a part of design intent - auto constraint is not always what you want. With Alibre and center rectangle - add two symmetric constraints and you are there. Hardly kneecapped, but you do need to put in more clicks. But that is irrelevant for me if I get stable and reliable models. As I look at it, the price justifies imposed limitations. As for FreeCAD, you get used to it. I still use it and new sketcher in 1.0 is great. So I would use FreeCAD for fast one part designs to print, but Alibre for work where stability is more important.

[@Irongrip62]

@@RoadSideMaker Frankly gating sketch primitives behind payment is insulting. Another hilarious omission I saw from the pricing list is being able to Boolean operator cut through multiple assemblies with one extrusion. I wouldn't give these people any money for this nickel and diming bullshit on principle alone.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@Irongrip62 Could you please let me know, when you find CAD software for 199$ of one time payment with a lifetime license for commercial use. Thank you in advance.

[@MisterkeTube]

Honestly, both look so unnecessarily complicated compared to Fusion or OnShape. For a simple box like that, why would you need more than a single sketch and some extrudes from that sketch? If you want to make things fancy, you could then add some variables to define the important dimensions of your design, but even with that, I guess it would take you less than 5 minutes to make the entire thing in either of those (arguably commercial) packages. Really, FreeCAD developers should stop digging themselves into their own concepts on how the CAD package should work and take over the concepts from those user-friendly commercial packages. With the latest changes to FreeCAD there finally seems to be some movement in that direction, but there's still a very long way to go ...

[@RoadSideMaker]

It seems that you are talking about layout sketch and multiple extrudes based on selected profiles in this sketch. Alibre and FreeCAD don't have that (freecad 1.0 does have edge selection as new feature but not profile) profile selection from sketch. They both adhere to practice of one sketch one feature which makes sketches simpler. When you are collaborating, everyone on the team should be able to read sketch easily. With layout sketches that could be more difficult. On top of that, companies that use CAD software have their own rules for modeling all designers have to adhere. So even if the CAD package can do faster modeling, the company rules may forbid the use of that technique. Now this video is not a tutorial on designing a simple box. It can be done much faster in both FreeCAD and Alibre indeed. The point of the video is to demonstrate the Top-Down or In-Context modeling workflow approach. Box is just arbitrary for ease of demonstration.

[@MisterkeTube]

@@RoadSideMaker This is the exact behavior I also find back in FreeCAD developers: they keep finding arguments to force users into their own mindset rather than making stuff as easy and flexible to use as possible. It's like talking to a brick wall ...

[@RoadSideMaker]

To each their own. I would suggest not to assume the brick wall and to explore the arguments deeper even if you do not agree with those. There are reasons behind these arguments.

[@BeefIngot]

I totally feel you here. The sketch thing is makes both of these basically unusable due to how painfully slow it makes things. Hearing continuous copium for poor workflow boils my blood.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Lets hope it improves

[@Todestelzer]

I would switch to Alibre design from fusion 360 if the CAM wouldn’t be so good in fusion. I recommend everyone to get Alibre Design. Atom is ok, but as far I know no Boolean operations available.

[@wilsonmarroquin4299]

Alibre is free???

[@RoadSideMaker]

No, it is not, but the pricing is better with the perpetual license compared to subscriptions.

[@Todestelzer]

Way better. Paying 400€ for fusion 360 every year. Only the CAM is holding me back buying Alibre design.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@Todestelzer When I thought purchasing Fusion, they announced the price increase. It would be around 700€ per year for me. Dodged a bullet there

[@Todestelzer]

@@RoadSideMaker I had to pay 400€ this year. I think you’re getting a discount if you’re already subscribed? Checked it right now and it says 455€ next year 01/25. It says Fusion - Legacy 2024

[@RoadSideMaker]

Ye, you are getting a nice discount. I could live with 400, just checked it says 757€ for a year.

[@MrLelopes]

I am a simple man, I see someone pro advising for a subscription software, I downvote it. And Report it as the spam it is.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Alibre is one time purchase for life-time license. With optional version upgrades, if one chooses to. But you do you

[@MrLelopes]

@@RoadSideMaker No price listing on site? "ask for a reseller to contact you". YEah.. being there just shady business models. I know where this is going.

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@MrLelopes No you don't. They have listing on their site if you access it from USA and Canada. Other countries are served through resellers. Guess what? Resellers have pricelists. e.g. Germany alibre.info/alibre-preisliste.html Same goes for other countries.

[@gcewing]

Not intending to use it, but out of curiosity I tried to find prices on their site. Found a bunch of "Go to reseller website" links. I'm in New Zealand so I tried that one. 403 - Forbidden error. All right, what about Australia then? 403 error. Tried a frew other random countries -- all 403. What about USA, surely that one will work? It shows me NO entries for USA or Canada. It looks like they don't actually want any business with anyone outside North America.

[@RoadSideMaker]

Hey, for USA and Canada they are selling direct. No info on Oceania, I will drop support q message that reseller webs not available. Foe Europe almost all countries have prices

[@hypocritical7379]

i havent had this issue with freecad before, it could be a windows issue (as always), or your dev build is way out of date (probably the latter)

[@RoadSideMaker]

I have had these issues in official releases 0.20 and 0.21. Video shows the most unreliable method of modeling interconnected parts. Next video will show the god practice and no issues.

[@hypocritical7379]

@@RoadSideMaker so software can improve, freecad is a good example of this. FreeCAD 1.0 release candidates are releasing soon, please try this test again, I think you will be surprised with how much better FreeCAD has gotten in a year

[@RoadSideMaker]

@@hypocritical7379 Fully agree, FreeCAD is improving rapidly. I am always using latest development version. Now when RC1 is live, I am testing it our as well