All about the Petzl Nano Traxion vs Micro Traxion !!

[@benwolpert]

Perhaps im a little late to the party, but thank you for the video and all the information and time you put into this. I like to research things and weigh out what the best option is before purchasing something and this had everything i would like to see in it. Thank you very much!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Thanks for the feedback!!

[@ASNIV_]

Awesome comparison. Thanks the thorough work you do!

[@ButterBallTheOpossum]

You have a cool accent. Half the time it sounds like a French accent and then the other half of the time you sound like you have a perfect American accent.

[@Mlanding1]

Yann, Thank you so much for this video. I decided to buy the Micro Traxion after your review.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Good choice!

[@suezix8689]

Great comparison, thanks. Happy you covered the cord thing, and you just taught about that trick for letting the MT on while rappeling, thank you!!!!

[@Me1234utube]

Ref leaving the micro traction on when rappelling; I find that clicking it back on the ratchet, if the rope jiggles about it flips back on. I didn’t catch the other method, are you able to explain please. ?

[@suezix8689]

@@Me1234utube well my method consists in removing the MT altogether and replacing it with the GG. Is that what you're asking?

[@Me1234utube]

@@suezix8689 yes, it’s what I was asking; I though there was a better way, thanks for the reply

[@suezix8689]

@@Me1234utube No problem. If you want up and down on the same device, go for the LOV2 or 3. Super convenient.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

The 2 tricks to leave the micro (MT) while on rappel are: 1- if the MT is on top, let it sit on the grigri clipped with a carabiner. The MT should follow ez. 2- if the MT is below the GG, extend it with a quickdraw so it sits low… it should go down freely also!! Let me know if these tricks work for you!! They are shown in details in the online courses here: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/

[@JonPoulson]

Thanks Yann. Been looking forward to this device.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Great pleasure! Thanks for the feedback!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

I received the following comment from Craig Spaulding of SICgrips: Since the Microtrax release cord was mentioned in passing, I thought I would address it here as a comment. There have been three complaints made by arm-chair climbers and gearoom “test-pilots” who’ve never tried the RIPcord Release. I’ll address each of these. I want to be clear - none of these have been observed during my year and a half of use. 1. “Cord will get entangled in toothed cam and prevent it from locking up.” This is pretty much impossible to happen since it is not a dangling single cord that can get flipped up into the cam. It is a short loop that’s on the back side of the cam away from the teeth. 2. “Cord loop will get caught on something to prevent it from locking up.” Unless you’re climbing in a brushy/bushy area, there is nothing for it to get caught on. The loop is on the backside of the MT/NT facing the body between your legs and it is vertically oriented, not horizontal like a lasso. 3. “Cam teeth will rub on rope while rapping causing it to snag and rip sheath fibers causing extra wear.” Take a look at the photos in my blogpost. There is plenty of clearance between the pulled open cam and the rope when rapping. If you use an older fatter rope, then it might be possible. I’ve used this mod with ropes that are 9.4-9.6. If it does snag the rope, then it’s going to lock up just like in a TRS “fall”. Once the teeth initiate the lock up, it’s the cam action that pinches the rope and stops movement, not the teeth. Again, I’m not trying to convince anyone - just trying to share info based on my experience. If your “inner climber” is paranoid, by all means don’t use it. However, if it looks like something that might be useful to you, then give it a try and make your own observations. This mod is is for MT/NT backup use and is fairly easy and safe to test by implementing before grinding off the lock-out nub. YMMV. See sicgrips.blogspot.com/2021/11/ripcord-microtrax-thumb-loop-for.html

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Good stuff thanks @sicgrips! This "enhancement" could come very handy with the Nano Traxion. I will try it! I still think that this cord could cause a malfunction at some point for someone. If you are using a single device, this mod would be in the "not recommended" category if you ask me. But if you have 2 devices, then something to look into. Your argument that "it always worked for you" is highly biased (see survival bias). Someone who will have an accident because of it might have a different view on the topic. It is important to do a proper risk analysis and this is not as easy as it sounds. The consequence of a failure is not to be taken lightly.

[@SICgrips]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I have only used it as a backup to a Taz Lov2 or a Trango Vergo so I feel it's totally safe in that context which allows immediate descent at any point. I'm not sure how it'd work with the Nano because of smaller clearances and the stronger spring which potentially will cause more friction flowing up the rope. I think based on your review the Micro is better for TRS as lead or backup device. The smaller size and stranger spring of the Nano would be a turn-off for me unless used with smaller ropes (8.9-9.4)

[@Govanification]

Basically seems like the nanotrax is ideal for skinny ropes in glacier travel / crevasse rescue / ski mountaineering where weight is really important. Otherwise if using a rope >9mm (most singles for rock climbing) or wanting the option to use it without the progress capture disabled the microtrax seems better. I'm not picking up the nano trax anytime soon, already happy with the micro for all uses from glaciers to rock.

[@LucScheffers]

What a great comparison Yann! Nice! About the pulley size. Yes bending/reforming is resulting in drag. Bit also the shear size of the pulley. You might want to think of it as, removing a wheel bolt from your car. With a small wrench (small radius of pulley) or a 50% larger wrench to overcome the friction of the bolt. The Nano is 18mm and the Micro 27mm. exact 50% larger. and so 50% more easy to overcome the friction of the bearing. Not ones, but continuous. Next to that the smaller Nano must turn (and overcome that friction and bending rope) 17,7 times and the Micro 11,8 times for 1 meter of rope. One note to the stronger spring in the Nano; my guess is that de radius of the Nano is smaller, so the contact surface of cam/pulley is less. Therefore it must grab for sure, which a stronger spring can do.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

That all makes sense!! Good thinking!

[@simonsteinberger2935]

It is an interesting thought. But the physics doesn't look correct. The example of the wheel wrench is about torque. Sure, larger lever, less force needed. But the pulley merely redirects the direction of the force. Those are different things. Yes, the larger pulley does cause less bending, which does amount to some extra force. However, it's far from a 50% difference. Petzl's data looks correct: Can't remember the exact numbers, some 95% efficiency for the Micro vs 92% for the Nano.

[@514ryman]

Alternate these videos. Huge knowledge dumps and l scooping them up 👍

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Wow thanks for this comment!! 🙂

[@realidadaparte]

Great comparison! Thanks a lot

[@mountaineer5596]

Good video, thanks. Can you do a review of the DMM Buddy?

[@Jwynne_]

I have 2 nano traxes that are around 2 years old and I have done a lot of soloing and belaying on one of them. I just bought a micro and it definitely has a weaker spring

[@Jwynne_]

My 2 cents is that the micro is great for hauling big walls that’s why I finally got my own but the nano is “safer” as a belay device or for top rope solo because the cam doesn’t lock open and has a stronger spring

[@sahntahdemon]

What is your preferred connector for he Micro Traxion when top rope soloing? Petzl BM'D? OK? Sm'D?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Look here for the problem and the solution: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYXce617oN6Uh5Isi=lNbWJxIbHF8obWSN&t=171

[@expierreiment]

I ordered mine nano traxion already 6 months ago. Should arrive in the next two weeks. I‘m really curious how it compares in rescue situations

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

If you try a z-drag, please test it and let us know how good it feels compared to the micro Traxion! Or: what rescue scenario do you think about?

[@PathofCultivation]

Excellent

[@nathanfisher6925]

The nano lacking the cam lock is a big drawback, you no longer can use it as a pulley. (it also sounds like the heavier cam spring will cause a noticeable increase in rope jacket wear)

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Mmm… Jacket wear! I wonder if someone noticed this using the Nano…

[@ralfrussel1950]

Looks like the Edelrid Spoc. How similar are those two? Do you have them both?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

I do own both of them. There has been people having trouble TRSing with the Spoc. The key to enjoyable time with the spoc is to always keep control of how it is loaded (ok for hauling or ascending ropes). If TRSing with it, I found a single connector that lessens the risks of “weird loading”: the DMM Ceros with the spoc in the small part of the carabiner. I love the spoc IF paired with the DMM Ceros!!! But it is too early to say what device I like the most between the Micro, the Nano and the Spoc: I need to use them more to get a complete idea about it. I feel that currently the one I will be using will be my favorite. (Any of them 3…)

[@tomtom4405]

Looks very interesting for crevasse rescue?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

I wonder if someone can give some real world advice on this. If you have a large team, you can go with the Nano because you have man-power to help. But if you are by yourself in a small team, I suggest you have a micro 30g heavier because it will have a better efficiency in the system. NOTE that the most important pulley is the FIRST on the side of the PULLER. So the Nano MIGHT be reasonable but you should have a Petzl Partner (reasonable ball bearing pulley) to put at the other side of the 3 to 1. If you make a 7 to 1, you should switch the Pulley and the simple carabiner in the article here: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Crevasse-rescue-no--3--haul-systems-for-crevasse-rescue?ActivityName=Ski-touring

[@derekatwood6236]

Size matters, i knew it!

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

EXACTLY!

[@JonPoulson]

Could the spring tension be due to micro trax is a used device?

[@JackArn123]

Any more updates on the friction..? thinking about getting a Nano but wondering about the friction on my 10.5mm static, the Micro I have works great paired with a handled ascender as back up (using this as I had it already). Wanting to upgrade my back up to something else, possibly nano..

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Yes I got some feedback. Everyone's consensus is that the nano has more friction than the micro. I don't plan to use the nano much...

[@JackArn123]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing okay thanks.. I guess I will stick with my jumar as a back up for now then.. 👍

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@joshjanes1 Yea hopefully Petzl keeps the Micro Traxion forever it is such a great device and it must be selling like crazy!

[@vangough1770]

Just curious have you tired the nano traxion with the grivel clepsydra? I’ve Been using combo for top rope solo(backed up w micro traxion) just wondering if you see any issues or potential problems

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

I have a big table with all the compatibility issues with MANY devices with MANY connectors. This table is available in my online top rope solo course available here: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/ About the Clepsydra S and Clepsydra L vs the Nano, the compatibility is 100% perfect if you ask me!! Better than with the micro traxion because there is some potential weirdness with the Clepsydra S… (see my video about anti-cross-loading connectors showing some on my YT channel).

[@vangough1770]

this is awesome thank you!

[@legouroumultifonctionsdufu2697]

No way to disengage the nano → how do you do on the way down when TRS'ing ? You can't just let it hang, you have to remove it !… → too cumbersome for laps !

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Have you tried it (keep device on the rope while rappelling) with the Micro Traxion? Does it work well for you? It is not so easy to keep the teeth away from the rope... My 2 tricks are the ticket for this really 🙂. But yea the Nano will not be an easy one to keep on the rope while rappelling...

[@Govanification]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I already take my microtrax off the rope when rappelling when doing TRS, even with the cam locked open it catches on the rope frequently during rappel. The RollNLock is way better in this regard, since the cam is completely outside the device when locked open, so I can rappel with it on the rope with no snagging. I use both devices for redundancy on TRS, but prefer the RollNLock. For rescue situations and hauling I prefer the microtrax, however.

[@VisinskiRadoviBeograd]

I don't like the idea of a second drilled hole in the carabiner. One is enough.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Interesting! Do you think it could be a problem for something?

[@VisinskiRadoviBeograd]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Yes, I felt uneasy when I first saw it. My feeling is that it is a weak point, very silly to drill a hole that way. Although I would like it without a hole.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@VisinskiRadoviBeograd Interesting! I am sure others might have asked Petzl about a version without the hole... I would guess it is 100% safe if Petzl does it.

[@VisinskiRadoviBeograd]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing 100% you say? Look at Petzl's history of recalls. Even DMM which doesn't have to hurry with their "family" production had recalls. Many "100%" companies had it also. You better doubt. I like petzl though, but if they can send the life depending product to the market, and then recall it, we should worry.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@VisinskiRadoviBeograd Makes sense... Doubt and curiosity keeps us alive! (or kills us LOL) Thanks for the comments!

[@devinciification]

For TRS im not sure why the nano would beat a Ropeman 2.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

Why do you like the Ropeman 2? The older version of Ropeman 2 I have creates A LOT of friction. Climbing with one makes you feel like you are pulling 1060 g !!! I know more 8 devices that feel like less than 400 g... (the Nano not being one of them...) The spring in the Ropeman 2 is so strong!!! (too strong for my taste!)

[@devinciification]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing oh I hear you. I just clip a 2kg weight plate at the bottom and climb. I feel the Ropeman 2 is safe and thats my main concern. I mostly ice climb.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

@@devinciification Have you looked at the test results from Lyon Equipment with the Ropeman 1? The rope sheath was stripped at 3.5kN and one test had the rope cut: www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2001/crr01364.pdf I would not recommend / use the ropeman 1. As for the ropeman 2, I have never seen it tested like other devices. It is your call to call it safe. I would not recommend / use the ropeman 2 either.

[@devinciification]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing yes saw the test. Not sure why youd not recommend the ropeman 2... it has teeth vs notches for the ropeman 1.

[@devinciification]

@@YannCamusBlissClimbing any other setup recommendations? Im using 2 ropeman 2 on 2 separate strands. Drop the cash on a micro or a nano instead? Ropeman 2 as backup...?

[@trollmcclure1884]

the rating is weak. Toothed cam is BS. Is there a better version of Petzl Shunt? I like it but as we know it's not perfect

[@brianrodman1033]

Id be interested to see how the Nano Traxion slides on the thinner rope, like one between 8mm and 9mm. Would the Petzl OK fit well with the Nano Traxion?

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

With the 8mm rope and Petzl OK, it slides perfect. On the 9.1 Beal Joker and Petzl OK, there is a bit of friction: the Sm'd has better sliding.