All Hands on Decks #4: Deck-building Series about Marvel Champions, with Andyr!

[@mrselfdestruct_mc]

Surprise surprise Boomy likes a deck with Androids in it! :). Also amen to 40+ card decks!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

😂🤖

[@WinningHandPodcast]

@@mrselfdestruct_mc who is surprised??

[@TheMaskedHero]

Wow! Buying back Bombs Away with Superpower Adaptation sounds incredible. Cause you know you're going to have aerial!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

Yeah it’s a cool interaction!

[@DMTip]

+1 Thwart against those that don't like Rogue +1 Attack for Rebooting Android Rogue +1 Defense for 41+ card decks I've loved Rogue from the beginning and still do. A Rebooting Rogue, or Rogue AI as it was called, was my first way to field her. Tons of fun and I also agree about excluding What Doesn't Kill Me because you don't take much damage. Recently I've grown to love Rogue with Avengers Strength in Numbers. It gives you enough of an end game in multiplayer to play 3+ events each turn consistently. If you can team up with an Aerial Storm it's even more potent. I'm also really digging the Rogue Ally lately too and have made several fun decks highlighting some unexpected heroes. Keep up the great work!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

Thank you so much! Love your comment, and I’m glad to see others like her too!

[@GetUpandGame]

Great show! I would love to see you both find a Timmy deck because I don’t think we’ve had any of those yet and I’m not sure. I even really know what that would look like.

[@WinningHandPodcast]

Challenge accepted!!

[@GetUpandGame]

@ the power of the people prevails yet again

[@WinningHandPodcast]

The people’s podcast always listens, we stand up for the little guy!! (In this case, I guess that’s Timmy)

[@WilliamOBrien-bu6sy]

The Android deck is sweet. Really great way to make use of Rogue's trait-borrowing.

[@WinningHandPodcast]

I know! It really shines in multiplayer!

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

It was glad to hear your comments regarding 41+ decks. While I certainly try to reduce mine to 40 the majority of the time, I often end up with 41 or 42 cards in the deck to accomplish what I wish to with the deck. I actually just published a Leadership Magneto deck with 46 cards in it, probably the most cards in any deck for me (it's hard to say since I've created well over 400 decks the last couple of years, though I haven't published many). I also had specific reasoning in mind, though, that was related to Magneto's ability with the overload of allies in it.

[@WinningHandPodcast]

I think that's awesome - I love hearing about different ways people build their decks!

[@DaringLime]

Just got to the end. @mcandyr I am also a Tac Team fan, but I don't think there is anything to apologize for lol. I have always loved that card and I think it is fantastic. I can't wait to see what the S.H.I.E.L.D. wave has in store for Tac Team!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

I am slowly changing my mind on that card. I don’t think I saw the value before but Andy has got me thinking…

[@DaringLime]

@ tbf to your side. It is not good at taking out the villain lol. It’s only good at board control.

[@mcandyr]

@@DaringLime absolutely can’t wait to see the future of Tac Team next wave

[@solomarvelchampion]

That Rogue Android deck looks great, I'll definitely try it out! Also, I recorded my "Seven Tips for new players" video this morning, and I think you'll agree with number 6! (Comes out on the 26th lol)

[@WinningHandPodcast]

That Rogue deck is a beast! I'll have to check out your tips when they drop.

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

I'm looking forward to it. I've been really enjoying your videos. I'm the one who tried out your system for turning an ally into a hero, which was a lot of fun!

[@solomarvelchampion]

@johnwaynemcclung8056 thanks! Well now I'm nervous it's not going to be "good enough" lol

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

@@solomarvelchampion You do an awesome job. I'm a definite fan. 🙂

[@solomarvelchampion]

@johnwaynemcclung8056 thanks, I really appreciate that!

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

Oh, I forgot to mention it in my other comment, but I'm really enjoying this series!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

Thanks so much, I am enjoying making it too!

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

@@WinningHandPodcast This may sound trite (it's not meant to be), but I'm glad to hear that. I think it's important for content creators, especially in our niche market, to truly enjoy what they are doing.

[@WinningHandPodcast]

@ I agree, and it’s important to get positive feedback from people who enjoy this stuff too. In a game this small, none of us are doing this as a job-even the biggest MC creators can’t make a living off of this game. I do all of this for the community, to share content that I wanted to see before I started.

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

@@WinningHandPodcast That's actually why I'm thinking about starting my own channel during winter break (I'm a math teacher), though I have to admit this particular series you're doing is exactly the type of thing I'm looking for. If I do decide to do it, I was going to call it MC Deck Discussions, since I was specifically going to focus on just discussing decks, having people give feedback for possible changes they might incorporate with their play styles, and then trying out the decks with those changes (and the maybe making a follow up video on it). Not that you need to know all that! LOL

[@WinningHandPodcast]

@ you should do it! There’s no time like the present to give it a shot.

[@DaringLime]

Regarding the larger than 40 cards decks, I would like to join in as a math nerd and say that there is a case for >40 being better in marvel champions. In other card games decking out isn't a concern, but in marvel champions it happens at least once in most games. There is a punishment for decking out that gives you an encounter card, which will typically take playing an entire card to deal with. Avoiding that extra encounter card is extremely valuable. There have been multiple games where I am try harding, and I specifically choose not to use my card draw because that would cause me to deck out and I need to manage the board state. If I had an extra card or two in my deck, I would be able to use my card draw. So I think it is fair to say that having 40 card decks with card draw built in (which most of the time is optimal) will cause you to lose out on a resource or two when playing optimally. And like you said, the difference in consistency between a 40 and 41/42/43/44, etc. is small. So what do you value more? Possibly getting an extra turn without an encounter card/avoiding losing out on card draw, or the small consistency boost? Another thing about 40 card decks being "better" is that the argument also assumes that your hero cards are stronger than the aspect cards. When thinking about raw numbers that is generally true. But that isn't universal! Especially with leadership strategies such as Uncanny X-Men, I will prioritize playing Utopia, Uncanny X-Men, and allies over my hero cards in most cases! I think this is too nuanced to say that 40 card decks are "better". There are many reasons why it may be more powerful to add in a few extra cards (and sometimes even 50 cards is optimal in my opinion). I tend to look at it case by case. If I am playing a hero that has key cards that I want to see and I'm basing my strategy around that, then I will make a point to have a 40 card deck. Some Examples of 40 Card Decks: - Iron-Man: I want to get my suit built as soon as possible and will go prioritize 40 cards to do that faster. - Adam Warlock: I like to get mystic senses and my staff as fast as possible so I keep it at 40. - Star-Lord: I actually want to deck out with him because I time my final pushes around getting the extra encounter card from decking out. I don't strictly do 40 with him, but I stay thinner. Examples of > 40 Card Decks: - Uncanny Leadership: I actually prefer seeing Uncanny X-Men and allies over hero cards, so I will push it to 45+ even to get more allies and add multiple copies of utopia and Forge to find it early. (I've never actually had a problem with having 1-2 "dead" copies of utopia in my deck when I've done this). - Protection Peter Parker: Peter can have some dead cards in his kit. Spider-Tracer can just straight up whiff, and Webbed-Up/Swinging Web Kick at the wrong time isn't that useful. Going over 40 cards to get more protection upgrades and protection events can actually be very powerful. - Magneto Discard: I actually prefer this deck at 50 cards. Since Magneto is guaranteed to see his own cards anyways, I like to go to 50 cards so I can get more allies in my discard pile to have Make The Call more versatile, and it also improves the consistency of having White Fox and Digging Deep be discards as opposed to drawn. This ended up being a really long comment, but I think it is important. One should not simply say, "40 cards is better" in my opinion. I might make a video on this at some point. I appreciate this series. I think it is fantastic and it sparks great discussion!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

I agree with you, the number of cards in a deck is a very nuanced discussion! There is a lot to consider, and it depends on the strategy you're going for, the hero, and the cards. I hate that the “right” way to build decks has become 40 cards and if you go above that, many on MCDB will see your deck as lesser. I appreciate you sharing the math on it. I honestly believe the difference is so minimal as to be irrelevant or indistinguishable most of the time. But there is this “church of 40 cards” groupthink that I feel like a lot of people are afraid to play outside of.

[@mcandyr]

I love this, and agreed wholeheartedly. Deck size isn’t necessarily correlated to deck strength or ability. It should actually be tied to deck strategy or hero needs more than a blindly-followed community-created rule.

[@Bogrin]

I need to make that android deck! Looks so fun

[@WinningHandPodcast]

It's a real blast, especially in multiplayer!

[@alexcaraballo3189]

I just made a deck that turns Rogue into an asgardian

[@WinningHandPodcast]

Oooh what’s it called? I’d love to search it out!

[@DMTip]

Open the Bifrost and Godlike Stamina? Fun!

[@saintmatthew956]

If the S.H.I.E.L.D. wave comes with some Monica Chang-esque ally that boosts Tac Team, then it will see much more play.

[@WinningHandPodcast]

That’s what people have been saying. But Andy and others have been convincing me that isn’t as bad as I thought!

[@mcandyr]

I can’t wait for Tac Team’s redemption arc to come to completion!!

[@saintmatthew956]

@@WinningHandPodcast Andy is definitely out of his mind and in no way, shape, or form could he possibly prove me wrong in an upcoming episode #5. *wink wink*

[@WilliamOBrien-bu6sy]

The damage rate is better than Uppercut, with the tempo-loss somewhat compensated by the ability to split. It is also an interesting backup option in decks that use Build Support. Certainly will be worth giving a look in Maria Hill, even w/o a Chang-y ally.

[@mcandyr]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@saintmatthew956 I’ll gladly discuss and show the beauty of Tac Team’s, however, I am still definitely out of my mind :p. But it not being a hero action or attack makes it super versatile (who doesn’t want to not care about hero, stun, or guard :D), especially in multiplayer

[@mcandyr]

Would you add in the Leadership Vision ally and break the rule just for the android theme? I think he’s the only Android ally not in the Mega (Wo)Man deck

[@WinningHandPodcast]

No way! I’m a stickler for rules 😜