All Shall Love Me And Despair | An Analysis of Galadriel's Speech & Ambition

Galadriel's speech to Frodo is a powerful moment in Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings. This video is my interpretation of Galadriel's speech to Frodo in Lothlórien after being offered the One Ring. Galadriel's speech shows us that she would simply become a different kind of tyrant. A Sauron with a different name and title.
► Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
0.55 - Frodo's Keen Insight
2:16 - Frodo's Offer To Galadriel
4:43 - Galadriel's Speech
7:15 - Echoes Of Melkor
9:18 - Galadriel As A Force Of Nature
11:14 - The Test Of Galadriel
11:51 - Galadriel: The Exile
13:24 - The Doom Of Mandos (Narrated By Phil Dragash)
15:48 - The Remaining Exiles
18:58 - Galadriel's Wish For Dominion
20:20 - "I Passed The Test"
21:58 - Outro/Artist Credits
22:35 - Patreon Update/Members-only Video
► Support the Channel:
Support the channel through Patreon - / stevengibb
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View Members-only Videos - • Members-only videos
► Supporters:
Patricia, Dovid Nachson Albright, Moses Gunn, ncv1993, Oliver Falangan, Seraphim38, Victus Schmmidtt, Douglas Harley, Ian Haydel, Joe Raffurty, Master of Dungeons, TB, Adam Dallas29, Carden, Carson Miller, Catherine G White, Connor Mulders, David Lafferty, Ess Jay Dubs, Jim Loughlin, Molly Barger, Nima, Ryan H, Sko, VoxPhantom, InconceivableDreamer234, boi sophies
► On-Screen Notes:
Not included
► Artwork:
All artists, images, and links to sources are found by following the link below. If you would like to see your artwork appear in videos or discuss the use of your artwork on the channel, please get in touch.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Maps used with permission from The Encyclopedia of Arda - www.glyphweb.com/arda/default...
► Thumbnail art :
Galadriel - Ralph Damiani ( / art_ralphdamiani )
► Audio:
The following music was used for this media project:
Music: Souls of Mist by Shunsuke Kida
License (CC BY 4.0): Namco Bandai Games
Music: Soaring by Kevin MacLeod
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/4386-soaring
License (CC BY 4.0): filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Thunderbird by Kevin MacLeod
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/4527-thunde...
License (CC BY 4.0): filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Maiden Astraea by Shunsuke Kida
License (CC BY 4.0): Namco Bandai Games
Music: Horizon Flare by Alexander Nakarada
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/4837-horizo...
License (CC BY 4.0): filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Mittelalterliche-liebe by Frank Schroeter
Free download: happysoulmusic.com/audio/mitt...
License (CC BY 4.0): filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: The Death Of A Dark Star by MusicLFiles
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/7297-the-de...
License (CC BY 4.0): filmmusic.io/standard-license
► Disclaimer:
All videos are the result of my own research into the works of Tolkien unless otherwise stated. I do not claim rights to any audiobooks, music, or artwork used. All scripts and editing are my own work. Permission has been requested from all copyright holders.
#tolkien #galadriel #onering #sauron #legendarium

[@johanabigasova6770]

"I pass the test. I will diminish, sail to West and remain Galadriel." This is one of very strong moments in both book and movie.

[@mikistjep]

Galadriel in the movies is fantastic. One of the best done caracters in my opinion

[@JerryBanks572]

Frodos gift, the gift of choice. Galadriel was always a fence-rider, wanting power but also wanting to do good. Frodo makes her choose.

[@paulchavez3039]

Inconceivable willpower is a perfect way of putting it. She decided to remain herself. To let her story be what it is and what it was. The most selfless and beautiful act, to let Eru's song be what it has been willed for it to be, and for her to remain Galadriel as she always had been. She needed nothing more. The most epic test and what her entire life had been leading up to, for a hobbit to offer her everything she ever wanted for thousands of years, and for her to turn it down and go home to valinor ❤

[@Kneenibble]

Beautifully put.

[@TheEvertw]

Amazing how the ring was used in the book to test characters. Gandalf, Galadriel, Aragorn, Faramir were all tested and passed, whereas Saruman, Denethor, Boromir and Gollum failed the test. Saruman was the worst failure. He never even got to within a hundred miles of the thing, yet betrayed everything he had stood for and then spent what little time he had left in petty revenge. Boromir redeemed himself through penance, which shows he still was a great man. The greatest test was of course Frodo's. No-one will hold his stumbling at the end against him.

[@drunkdave5677]

Don't forget Samwise! He was briefly tempted to use the ring and overthrow Sauron and turn Mordor into the greatest garden ever!

[@TheEvertw]

@@drunkdave5677 you are so right! We al trend to forget Sam...

[@waltonsmith7210]

I wonder if Gimli and Eomer threatening violence to one another over the beauty of Galadriel is a small lighthearted taste of what it would be like if she gained the Ring and became a dark Queen. Someone who can inspire that level of obsession and devotion in the best of times would be disastrous with an evil ring.

[@philipwest4553]

The evil of the one ring is not power, it is dominance. The one ring is wholly evil because its one "power" is to dominate the will of others, all others. Its temptation is to "order all things", to conform them to one's will and thus to rob creation of the freedom that Eru gives. It is fundamentally a challenge and contradiction of Eru's gifts and Eru himself. A rebellion so fundamental, so deep, that there is no way out once it is willingly taken and used. That is why Galadriel's test is such a decision point, a turning point for her - she rejects the desire to dominate, and thus she becomes free.

[@istari0]

Much of the commentary on Galadriel that I have read over the years says she remained under a ban preventing her from going to Valinor because of her refusal to do so at the end of The War of Wrath. But for some time I have thought that this line: *‘I pass the test,’ she said. ‘I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel.’* meant she could return all along; it had been her choice to stay in Middle-Earth to pursue her ambitions to rule.

[@TheRedBook]

Galadriel is a tough figure to discuss due to the ever-changing history and tinkering by Tolkien throughout many years but I tried to work what you said into the video as well - Galadriel's own pride stoppijng her from returning and her realising it at this moment in LotR. I do believe that too but we also have to pay close attention to various texts specifically referencing her prayer being granted, forgiveness by others - though they can work together. Maybe she needed that confirmation from another rather than just accepting it herself..

[@TheRedBook]

This is the second video I have completely remade on the channel, with far more detail and (hopefully) better production. I do plan on doing the same for some other videos but you can expect plenty of new content between these rare remakes. I hope you enjoyed this one! Thanks Support The Red Book: www.patreon.com/TheRedBook kzbin.info/door/POz2P0OxWp0ij0K4BsLsRwjoin

[@Garghamellal]

What is the source of the haunting music of this video?

[@TheRedBook]

@@Garghamellal - Sources for everything are always in the description.

[@lionofthemorning7997]

“The morning & the night.” could also refer to Galadriel’s hair. It was said that it held similar qualities to Laurelin & Telperion. Fëanor asked for strands of her hair for this reason when devising the Silmarils, though he was denied. Laurelin being the light of daytime & Telperion being the light of the night hours. Just an observation.

[@alexpatterson5471]

I thought I fully appreciated her refusing the temptation of the ring- but you’ve really shown the full gravity and context of her choice. Thanks!! Well done, as always!

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Galadrial: Is it better to be feared or loved? I say why not both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me

[@marcusa.ragnos1041]

A reason why Tolkien did not need to continue his work into the 4th age. As I understand, it was going to have themes involving the danger of becoming complacent when evil seems so small and far away. But his work already covered this in multiple ways. Evil was not just the immediate threat from being conquered by an outside force that seeks to impose its will. It is also those things that we love and give ourselves over to that can still grow into the very same thing. This theme is also explored in the thoughts of the hobbits, Ents, and others who ask themselves whether or it’s better just to stick their head in the ground about the events of evil in the world, preferring instead their comfort over all else.

[@VatticTV]

Terrible can mean formidable, powerful, and intense too. I always read it this way in the quoted passage.

[@jean-brunotremblay3361]

What you say is beautiful. Thanks a lot. You give to Galadriel such depth. I'll never see her the same - such a long and formidable fate...

[@kevinrussell1144]

This is VERY good. You have seen into more layers than any discussion of the Fair lady I've watched or read previously, and all your conclusions are based in careful reading and reason. She diminished and went into the West not as failure, but because Eru's song was so written. Her return is a triumph. Her lesson was to learn that however mighty and beautiful she was, her true gifts did not begin with her, but with Eru. She made and preserved (with the help of others) Lothlorien using the power of her ring, but even the three rings were made in the atmosphere of temptation from Annatar and pride, which is the central sin always ready to capture any incarnate being. Middle Earth by design cannot remain unchanged. Thanks for all the thought-provoking content.

[@stephenkrogh5934]

Excellent as always. One thought: I have always understood Galadriel's meaning of "terrible" in its more archaic use as synonymous with "great," "formidable," "extreme," etc. This wouldn't change much in terms of your fantastic analysis, but it would make sense given Tolkien's fondness for archaic language, and would fit well with the metaphor of morning night, which are inevitable, which makes them formidable to control, extremes bookending the day, meaning all encompassing, and so on. Anyway, rather than run this past my long suffering wife, I thought I would run it by the folks here.

[@nitaizag]

This is your best one yet! I think we are living unknowingly in this world of Tolkien.. I ask myself when the legend stop and the truth begins

[@mtnbean_gaming]

The Valar were Spittin’ when they cursed the Noldor. Gotttt damn

[@hiroshima19]

i like the demon's souls music in the background

[@steelshepherd6843]

Excellent analysis on the aspect of her being a ruler such as a force of nature rather than another means. Middle-earth would essentially become full of simps for her…

[@chattylumpkin]

Oh my goodness! That was wonderful! What a nice surprise to hear Phil Dragash narrate the story of the Doom of Mandos! Thank you very much!

[@TheRedBook]

When I decided to include that passage in the video, I had to contact Phil to do it :D

[@Sir_TophamHatt]

Agreed! I’ve just been listening to his rendition of the book recently, so when i heard the passage from it here, it felt like the voices of the characters from my own head were being projected into the video lol

[@chattylumpkin]

@@TheRedBook It's very complimentary to the your production. I am enjoying the Red Book podcasts very much and learning a lot. I hope to interest my 13 year old nephew in the LOTR but he is having a lot of difficulty reading. Although he can hear a story and comprehend; for some reason he struggles. So I thought if he is an auditory learner; we could bridge the gap with audiobooks and make a connection to the written book that way. I think he would love Phil Dragashs reading of LOTR. Yes, I do know where to find it. If it disappears from there, I'll cry. I'm looking forward to your upcoming livestream. Cheers!

[@Yesica1993]

@@Sir_TophamHatt I only discovered it late last year! I don't usually even like audiobooks. But I was doing my umpteenth reread from an edition that has very small print. I thought a bit of audio here and there would help me when my eyes got tired. Once I started listening, I could not stop! I couldn't believe how wonderful it was. I don't think I ever found a way to contact him to say thank you.

[@Yesica1993]

​@@chattylumpkin I hope your nephew eventually loves it! And if he doesn't right now, there's always time. If it's any consolation, I was in my mid 30s when I first read it, to prepare for The Two Towers movie. I entirely missed Fellowship in theaters. Don't even ask me how. I've always been a reader and generally have no problem with long, older, or otherwise challenging books. But it wasn't until the middle of Return of the King that the language, style, and rhythm of the writing clicked for me. At this point, after many rereadings, I can't even recall or put myself in the headspace of why I struggled. It just seems one of those things, regardless of age, where you grow into it. All the best to you and to him!

[@Enerdhil]

I think that the wisdom Galadriel learned in Menegroth under the tutelage of Melian was what saved her from taking the Ring. I have a head canon theory that Ëonwë secretly visited Galadriel and told her that Manwë had received a message from Eru in regard to Galadriel and that she should hear it. The message would state that there was yet one test that Galadriel would need to pass ere she could return to Valinor. That test was the Ring given to her by Frodo.

[@Pernoctate]

I like the echo of Jung's Red Book in this channel. Glad I found it and am enjoying your insights.

[@Pernoctate]

That being said, I'm not sure taking the Ring would not have destroyed Galadriel to the point that she eventually placed it in Sauron's hand. There is that question of levels in the created order. Sure, the ring imparts power of an ainur but not being. I'll have to look up your video on that you mentioned somewhere.

[@oguzhanenescetin5702]

I think there is also a non-mentioned layer. We all know the term “power” in legendarium is a neutral term and according to the purpose of the user it can either be Dark or Light similar to “magic”. Galadriels usage of seemingly reverse symbols here can be explained by the fact that power is not a one dimensional thing and it can be perceived differently. Saurons form in Numenor was described as both fair and terrible by Numenoreans, Melkor commands Ice and Fire etc. Another great video❤️

[@sainiharika]

Best video on galadriel ♥️♥️♥️

[@PleaseNThankYou]

It sunk in this time. The way you've explained the issue of Frodo and Galadriel at the well, was jam packed with context. It makes reading through it much easier and enjoyable.

[@dimitriskalogirouvaltis4152]

While reluctant to ascribe any philosophy into Tolkien’s work, the pairing of beauty and terror in Galadriel’s speech always reminds me of the Kantian conception of the aesthetic pleasure of the sublime.

[@user-cx7kg6ok9b]

I hear whispers of a rumor that there was a scene, cut from the book, wherein Frodo offers the One Ring to Bill the Pony, but even Bill is too wise to accept such a gift.

[@LordBalin]

Best Tolkien youtuber period.

[@tylerbarrett6652]

I hear so many people say "Never give up on your dreams."; but, if I understand you, Galadriel MUST give up on her dreams in order to pass the test and be granted the pardon of the Valar so that she may return to Valanor. In the broader sense, this sort of thing happens to most people to a certain extent... finding more satisfaction in being of service to their spouse and children/friends and family, than in achieving the pinnacle of whatever ambition/dream they might have originally had. I think we need to acknowledge that our dreams change. I much prefer that saying "It isn't the destination that matters so much as it is the journey." However, getting back to your thoughts on what would have happened if Galadriel had accepted the ring. You are right to point out that even if you set out to be a benevolent ruler, being a ruler at all (tyrannical or otherwise) still leads to a loss of freedom for those you rule... God gave us free will, so who is mortal man (or elf) to rob us of that gift? I think there is more at play with this ring of power, remembering the phrase "it is altogether evil". It would eventually turn even the most upright and compassionate being to evil... for, as we have heard, "power corrupts - and absolute power corrupts absolutely". So I don't think it is a matter of perspective or opinion ... like a violent storm can be terrible or beautiful depending on where one stands to observe it. Evil is NOT affected or changed by opinion. I think Aragorn says something like this when meeting the Riders of Rohan as they chase after the Orcs who hobbit-napped Merry and Pippin - what was good decades ago will still be good now... and what was evil decades ago will still be evil now - time does not change the nature of good and evil. Anyway, I'm enjoying your channel having only recently found it, and I'm glad you have requested we share our thoughts in our comments. Thank you for putting so much good JRRT content out here for so many to enjoy.

[@Yashael341]

You offer us this video freely?

[@stfuinc.202]

I love Galadriel. Great vid

[@benruniko]

I support this channel and if i had the money i would donate. Well done sir! May your humble joy in Tolkiens work be rewarded as was Galadriels humbling of herself.

[@notyourmom3317]

Awesome video!

[@joseraulcapablanca8564]

Great stuff as ever Steven, I think part of the reason, Galadriel was granted forgiveness, was that though she was prideful and foolish, she was almost unwittingly drawn into the kin slaying, which was the greatest evil of the bold or. Thanks and keep up the good work.

[@granterickson9105]

Another solid effort for your channel

[@ernestschroeder9762]

Very poetic.

[@anwvererere]

Excellent use of Demon's Souls music here bro. Love your vids the best!

[@rafaelmarrero8374]

Best KZbin Tolkien channel IMO . Your approach to the works of Tolkien reflects exactly how i engage and process the text . Tolkien books are just not some random fantasy stories . This stuff reads and feels like a mythology on its own … i regarded just as the Greeks had their myths and the Norse their own tales. It’s epic in scale and their meaning behind speaks to the human condition, questions about morals , the fight between good and Evil and so much more .. fantasy is just the vehicle through which the author chooses to express himself

[@PortCityBalrog]

Eru is my god

[@iarwainthabombadil7724]

I did two things today, by the Book, as I am wont to say. 1st. Early in the morning I wrote down this quote on a special piece of paper: " 'or seeming so, by his foul arts.' 'Nay, it was not so,' said Faramir. 'For his works fill the Heart with Loathing, but my Heart was filled with grief and pity.' " 2nd. I told my wife "like Galadriel, she laid the walls of that place bare." that was this morning. Approximately 3 hours before I saw this video. In the legendary words of Hunter S. Thompson's attorney... "Do you see what God just did to us Man?!?!"

[@iarwainthabombadil7724]

🫂

[@Aurora-qn2dx]

Lovely artwork at the introduction.

[@Ka_T_ya]

Absolutely marvelously done video ! Once again ! So much depth ❤

[@v1e1r1g1e1]

One wonders what the Valar would have done to protect the Dwarves and Men - the mortals - as well as the Moriquendi of Middle Earth who would have ALL fallen under Morgoth's dominion had it not been for the (returning) Noldor who besieged Angband and witheld to great extent the rule of Melkor/Morgoth for centuries! I am inclined to think that the Noldor might well have argued (as did Boromir argue of the men of Gondor in a later age) ''By the blood of our people are your lands kept safe!'' Further; the Valar are hypocrites: they condemn the Noldor for pursuing the Silmarils - which they want to unmake to heal the Trees [that were destroyed because of their own stupidity and negligence, I might add].. and yet reward those Houses of Men who partook in resistance against Melkor, though they suffered greatly for it. Frankly, I have little time for the Valar when it comes to their handling of Melkor. They are gullible, if not outright stupid. They suffer his outrages - the marring of Arda, the ruin of the Lamps; they whine over his destruction of the Trees.... and yet when a mere Elf (Feanor) dares to defy them, suddenly they're all powerful and full of righteous indignation??!??!! Where was this outrage when the early Elves were corrupted into Orcs? Where was this outrage when the Fathers of Men were persecuted, corrupted and enslaves by Melkor? Had they thrown Melkor into the Dark Void upon their first defeat of him, Arda would have been much happier.

[@joedredd1168]

Love that you've used Phil Dragash's audio reading of LoTR, truely one of the best versions made.

[@TheRedBook]

It's my favourite one and I'm glad he was happy for me to use it. I was a contributor to his project when he was first doing it on KZbin :D

[@synone4013]

You make terrific content

[@josephraffurty9293]

This was a great expansion upon your earlier video. Well done!

[@kirandeepchakraborty7921]

Love these videos

[@SophiesDriver]

Excellent presentation! Thank you do much

[@metalaxl]

brilliant video, thanks for doing this !

[@doop2541]

Beautifully done

[@skatemetrix]

Awesome stuff!

[@thomasp12384]

I am already excited for it :DDD

[@ladyalaina42]

Wonderful analysis! Thank you°

[@Enerdhil]

Sometimes Frodo can be a dope. Gandalf himself clearly explained why even a Maia would not be able to resist the urge to wield the Ring with terrible power, YET he offers the Ring to Galadriel. Some people........

[@Epic_Kingdom]

Looking forward to this!

[@PooooLsharK]

Love your videos, hope many more are coming. 🙂 That part from Phil Dragash, did he do a silmarillion audiobook or was that just for this video?

[@TheRedBook]

I commission Phil to record certain things for my videos, he hasn't made a Silmarillion audiobook, so here is the only place you'll hear it :D

[@Davlavi]

for the algorithm

[@TheRedBook]

Doesn't work! Can't use that word ;)

[@plixypl0x]

For Frodo.

[@jim.the.editor]

@@plixypl0x beat me to it

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

Cast it into the fire!

[@plixypl0x]

@@jim.the.editor No...

[@jessetravis956]

Nice job!

[@ironblue4593]

Amazing video, very interesting to watch. Remade video looks great

[@user-sd7ri9fy4i]

Nice work dude thanks

[@adamslater1634]

Well done sir, well done indeed!!!

[@thebrotherskrynn]

This was a great video of yours, and is a magnifique one that truly shows your wisdom and understanding of the text, though if I may remark the best part was on the commentary of the elements to which Galadriel sorta've compares herself to and the part about her diminishing to go into the west. It is important that Galadriel renowned for her pride, humbles herself before the Valar given that she was a Noldor, and not simply any Noldo but one that desired dominions and power, and to rule at the top of the world rather than continuing to live at the bottom of the pecking order so to speak in Valinor. Her return though is a time of great joy, as she is reunited with her kin, while her pride is a peculiar trait of hers. One that she doesn't really share in common with a great many of the Finarfinians, who are typically wise and humble by nature.

[@MaximusOfTheMeadow]

I Wil gladly watch this video as soon as it comes out, it is a interesting topic And I think your views are very wel grounded and argued. And my personal opinion, you're by far the most Tolkien-Like KZbinr to listen to

[@michaelsupernor4682]

Well done.

[@BenFrayle]

Can't wait!

[@Enerdhil]

Sorry it took this long to see this fantastic remake. I have always wondered who the Ring wielding Galadriel would rule over. Of course, she would try to rule over her own people, but after she kills Celeborn, the Elves of Lothlorien would want to have nothing to do with her. She would end up ruling the same peoples that Sauron did, wouldn't she?

[@25gramsofbluesky33]

Do a thingy on Faramir! 😂 This is awesome tho...😍

[@Rotisiv]

I bet Sauron was shitting his pants when Frodo offered the Ring to Galadriel. 😂

[@oldmangranny5oldmangranny56]

Slightly off topic. What would happen if a mortal wore one of the eleven three do you think? Would their bodies go to the unseen realm, but instead of becoming corrupted they would preserve a fortress against Sauron?

[@lLeeShaw8059]

But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me, What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?

[@hecate235]

Galadriel realizes that the One would destroy her. it was created by Sauron, a Maiar, whose power and knowledge is as far above hers and she is above the creatures of Middle Earth. The One was created to dominate, to suppress all other wills. Sauron poured almost all his own power into the Ring, and eventually it would corrupt her as easily as it had corrupted Gollum. Trying to "bend" the Ring to her own will would be pride and arrogance, and Galadriel has finally lived long enough to see that trap. She will "diminish and remain Galadriel," a great elf-queen, but still only an elf.

[@Irish_Pete]

For the Al gore rhythm

[@plixypl0x]

For Frodo.

[@Hetpust]

m-alrighto, logarithm, himortalg, mitralgoh, mhtirogla 🤔

[@TheRedBook]

"You are hearing me talk"

[@guillecatoniryan7092]

Gratis video man

[@yael9137]

Sí man i yulma nin enquantuva?

[@PleaseNThankYou]

I think I know of that channel of which you speak. Well, you did a better job anyway.

[@ardaea2529]

@Aas The Broken Sword. Avoid those cheating frauds like the plague.

[@ardaea2529]

@Aas They are a popular channel but they pretend nothing really happened. They blame people that were working for them but it's been proven that they knew about it. They basically stole the content from The Red Book before he became a channel. It's terrible that they have so much support.

[@PleaseNThankYou]

Well, I wasn't going to say outright to avoid causing anyone embarrassment, but two near-death blows and then the D.I.E. ( the original acronym) crept into full view.

[@jessetravis956]

She also would have had 2 rings same if Gandalf had taken it

[@Hero_Of_Old]

Demons souls music?

[@TheRedBook]

Hi, Gandalf The Grey, for information about artwork, music, and audiobooks, please check out the description of the video. Thanks!

[@andybricky1927]

I didn't think Sauron died on Numenor, I thouht he fled to Middle Earth.

[@TheRedBook]

He fled back to Middle-earth following his death there.

[@andybricky1927]

@@TheRedBook So his physical form died and his spirit fled, I missed that, thanks.

[@Enerdhil]

His body (hroa) died which means he died, but his spirit (ëala) survived and carried the Ring back to Barad-dûr.

[@andybricky1927]

@@Enerdhil O.K got it I went back through the Silmarillion to find it. The only good thing about getting old is it's like a new book every time!

[@jdspencer60]

This would be far far worse than anyone else taking the ring

[@PortCityBalrog]

I think for galidriels voice you should have a woman say the line

[@TheRedBook]

I don't know anyone who could do that for me

[@fredkrissman6527]

Why do we Americans say, "You want your cake, and eat it too!" which makes zero sense... But the narrator here sez "They want their cake, but without eating it!" which also makes no sense to me!

[@dangrimes6200]

The expression is wanting 'to have your cake and eat it, too'. Meaning, u want to have your cake. But u also want to eat your cake...which would lead to not having it anymore. You cant both HAVE it, and also EAT it. Doesn't stop us from trying, tho XD. The Red Book misspoke in this case.

[@TheRedBook]

I didn't. I was quoting Tolkien directly.

[@dangrimes6200]

Ah. Then either JRRT misspoke, or he purposely altered the expression. Sorry for jumping to conclusions :) the expression is just a colloquial way of expressing our irrational desire to 'own' transitory experience, as well as pointing out the illogical aspect of hoarding something that only has purpose when used/consumed. Cant have it both ways, basically. Whereas...u can, in fact have your cake IF u dont eat it :D

[@steelshepherd6843]

Excellent analysis on the aspect of her being a ruler such as a force of nature rather than another means. Middle-earth would essentially become full of simps for her…