Below The Slope | American Airlines Flight 383

[@megadavis5377]

As a recently retired airline pilot myself, I've heard it said many times that we're a renegade bunch who are afraid of commitment. In this case it was true. If you're in instrument conditions and you fail to commit to instruments, you may very well find yourself divorced from life itself.

[@johnbailey3877]

Excellent summary

[@julosx]

Basically they were flying VFR into IMC. Not a very professional attitude if you ask me. It couldn't end up well.

[@ciaranhalliday9050]

@SpaceAce100what Hill did TWA Flight 128 crash into

[@ciaranhalliday9050]

I would want to see the crash site of American Airlines Flight 383

[@RatPfink66]

They were prop era pilots for sure. Eyeballs and seats of pants might kick in at any time. Indeed they were probably semi-useful in the early jets. But all the old pilots were taught was the new technology. Not enough mistakes had been made yet to teach the new _psychology._

[@jakejacobs7584]

As an almost retired AA pilot I can tell you that we used to fly VFR at times when it made sense and was safe, although I can't remember doing a passenger flight under those rules in the last fifteen years. Ft Meyers - Sarasota was often done at 5000', FLL-MIA the same. During The PATCO strike we often left NYC airports VFR and picked up clearances airborne just to get out. Once during a French Controller strike I left ORLY in a 767 VFR and picked up a clearance with Brest control then London and Shanwick to get our oceanic. On that one I just remember the Captain mumbling under his breath ' No gawd daaam Frenchman gonna keep me from my dinner tonight". I will say that all were flown in daylight and good weather, scud running was out of the question.

[@antonfarquar8799]

excellent insight - thank you

[@Capecodham]

VFR? PATCO? FLLIMIA,

[@paulcooper8818]

Thanks, I can see VFR only being used in special circumstances by large carriers.

[@jakejacobs7584]

@@Capecodham sorry, visual flight rules, Ft Lauderdale to Miami and PATCO was the National controllers strike in the early 1980’s

[@tpajay]

@@jakejacobs7584 Nothing to be sorry for. I was in airline industry, starting in the 1970s, & worked at CMH my career. To save time with my comments, I always use airline codes. I figure the people watching these type of videos are familiar with the airline industry or know how to google to find the answers. Of course, after reading a lot of comments, I sometimes find I assume too much. lol.

[@tomcarr4630]

I was living in Cincinnati in the 60s. Loved watching the planes fly over our home on final approach. I remember both crashes vividly.

[@smwca123]

Check Captain Teelin's first name was Daniel, not David. One of the 4 survivors was a deadheading AA Captain, Elmer Weekly, whose testimony helped shed a lot of light on what happened.

[@aflacduckquack]

They say that airline safety regulations and airworthiness directives are written in the blood of the victims who died in the crash effecting the changes. It's so sad, and so true. Even experienced pilots can foul things up. Very nice, respectful, production, Allec...

[@georgeconway4360]

I just read the actual accident report. ATC cleared the flight to descend to 2000’ which is only 1110’ above the airport elevation. American Airlines used QFE for all landings and the accident report said they started their turn to final at 210’ and the descent rate went to 2100 FPM probably when they selected 25 Degrees Flap.The descent rate had recovered to 625 FPM. Due to the Drum Type altimeters they may have thought they were 1200’ QFE rather than 200’ QFE.

[@SixbyFire]

I went to this crash site location about 10 years ago. It’s not a “micro site” by any means, but there isn’t a lot left on the surface either. Lots of smaller aluminum pieces, some plexiglass, but lots and lots of pieces of the dinnerware/plates all around. It was eerie finding all those pieces. If anyone wants to see what my son and I found, my Flickr user name is the same as my user name here. If you find my albums list and go back about 10 years you’ll find our site visit photos.

[@UahUahUah]

Thanks for sharing!

[@yerunski]

Nice photos, unbelievable so much debris was left at some crash sites.

[@EphemeralProductions]

They never cleaned all that crap up?! Whoa.

[@SixbyFire]

@@EphemeralProductions You’d be surprised. My son and I have been to sites where you can only find a few pieces that are left that would all fit in the palm of your hand. Another site near us has basically the entire aircraft, minus the cannons and electronics and the one wing which was sheared off and which caused the plane to crash. But both engines are there, the tail section, the other wing, everything. It was a US Navy F2H single seat fighter.

[@devinthierault]

@@EphemeralProductions You can find bones in the Canadian crash caused by deploying spoilers on flare.

[@billharter5069]

I also lived in Cincinnati in the 60's and remember this well. Some believe the crew recognized they got too low, but the 8 second spool up delay those engines had doomed them. The plane seemed to impact nose up just as the engines responded, and they slid a couple hundred feet up the hill.

[@WendyKS93]

These serves to remind us that even very experienced pilots can still sometimes make mistakes that cause tragedy. Thanks Mr. Allec for this story.

[@bill2953]

Agree in a sense except one would think experience would have played a critical role in realizing the variables in this type of situation. To say it's possible the pilots were concentrating on one aspect supports my contention.

[@scofab]

Well done once again young man, remember all of this and you're going to become a fine pilot. How's the training going? All the best to you.

[@friendlysky7674]

I swear allec makes the best ones😻😻

[@InteriorDesignStudent]

"Low terrain. PULL UP." "Low terrain. PULL UP." It would be another 33 years before this was mandated.

[@terriestapley5475]

I wondered about that, Thank You ~

[@julosx]

I'd rather say 15 to 20 years for the earliest GPWS, 33 years were for EGPWS that appeared in 1996.

[@70slandshark47]

Trench,, that was the first thing I thought of, no GPWS warning? I'll have to Google it when it was first incorporated in commercial aircraft.

[@bobvicki]

GPWS was mandated by 1975, so about 10 yrs out.

[@70slandshark47]

@@bobvicki Thanks,, good to know,

[@hirisk761]

The TWA didn't crash on the same hill. it actually crashed about another half to 3/4 mile closer to the runway on short final. it was an apple orchard now an industrial park.

[@rockadoodoo]

I always loved those 727s. They were my introduction to slick, powerful jet travel. They looked so cool with their gear up, nose pointed to the sky, and those three engines pushing her ever upward. Such a sad crash for everyone.

[@jamesgraham6122]

As a pilot (now retired), it's difficult to understand their choice of electing to make a VFR approach in what were obviously night, marginal VFR conditions, and conditions known to be deteriorating. The accident starts right there, exacerbated by a failure to maintain SOPs. Not what one might expect from an upgrade assessment flight involving a check captain.

[@winstonchurchill3597]

Well I'm not retired yet, but when I am the Monday night quarterbacking begins - until then "there but for the grace of God go I."

[@jesuslovesyou-matts]

@@winstonchurchill3597 nothing wrong with pointing out flaws so we can all learn from mistakes

[@winstonchurchill3597]

@@jesuslovesyou-matts I didn't say there was. I just indicated that I'm gonna wait until I retire to speculate on accidents.

[@jesuslovesyou-matts]

@@winstonchurchill3597 oh you're a pilot?

[@winstonchurchill3597]

@@jesuslovesyou-matts Yes - been flying with the airlines for 33 years. Currently an Airbus 320 captain. I like to learn from others mistakes, but sure as heck don't want to criticize, because there but for ... - you get the gist.

[@fleetwin1]

The other day, I had four people in the cockpit, all "checking each other", one of which was an FAA guy. As an FA, I worry about these situations, just seems like they can add confusion and disrupt the normal rythm/communications between pilot and F/O. May they all rest in peace, "by the grace of God go I...."

[@bikeny]

Per the APFA: On December 13, 2017, Toni Ketchell, the surviving crew member, died.

[@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043]

RIP Ms. Ketchell. I wonder if she ever wrote her memoirs, or if she thought the horror of that fateful night would be better left untold (other than to the accident investigators).

[@Capecodham]

APFA?

[@bikeny]

@@Capecodham Association of Professional Flight Attendants

[@Capecodham]

@@bikeny Who the hell was supposed to know that?

[@bikeny]

@@Capecodham I only found it when I searched for more info about the crash. I wasn't assuming everyone knew, but, if one didn't they'd search for it.

[@dianericciardistewart2224]

Well done, Allec!! Hope all is going well for you!! 💕✈✈💕

[@Capecodham]

Well done? You are joking.

[@JosephStalin-yk2hd]

@@Capecodham hahaha, you win the comedian award

[@Capecodham]

@@JosephStalin-yk2hd Your name is not a great one to have these days.

[@JosephStalin-yk2hd]

@@Capecodham the name, ‘Burt’ is as bland as ever.

[@bonton9441]

This was well done. All black no idea what I was watching. 👏

[@Capecodham]

Then how could it be well done?

[@thedocnak]

@@Capecodham Realistic! You see what the pilots seen!

[@deepthinker999]

Turn off all other lights and the image is better.

[@davesmith5656]

A single strobe light could be maintained on hilly terrain in the proximity of an airport. In bad weather it might be obscured, but with today's technology, some sort of transponder could be added to beam to and supplement a ground proximity warning system. Heck, if you want to computerize everything, hook the signal into the autopilot. Seems to me that a lack of careful thought causes crashes, combined with some form of technological myopia.

[@inkydoug]

I really like these very well made videos Mr. Ibay, and I have a suggestion for a little improvement. I always find myself going back to the beginning of the vid. to re-read the date and place of the incident. If the date, location, airline and flight number were placed along the top of the screen and stayed there for a minute or so it would plant that important frame of reference in the minds of the viewers more easily than the very brief screen time that information has at the very start of the videos.

[@markybear92840]

Its odd that this flight number, 383, was not retired as is customary after a fatal crash. AA Flight 383 suffered an engine fire on a 767 at ORD a few years back.

[@RatPfink66]

It's O-Hare - Nashville now.

[@treyn8070]

Atleast it was quick and they didn't see it coming. I don't know if that makes it any better but it seems like it does. It was too late to do anything but they couldn't see the ground so atleast they didn't have to see terrain coming at them at 300 mph with not a single thing they could do to stop it. RIP 🙏 🕊

[@travelwithtony5767]

When maintaining visual contact with the airport becomes more important than being aware of the terrain…this happens.

[@RatPfink66]

Such awareness may have been impossible over deceptive river valley terrain, in suddenly worsened visibility. All theyd've had to go on was the altimeter, and if you were looking out for the runway, you'd never think to check it. And they were what, _2 or 3 miles_ from the runway. And _cleared for visual approach._ You wonder what the tipoff would have been to call in and say, "Let's scrub this, get us in on IFR..."

[@susiesweet8003]

😪 To me, it seems a lack of communication between the pilots. Not letting the right hand know what the left hand is doing & visa-versa.

[@bikeny]

I was gonna go with the 'when you assume....', but yours works too.

[@tb7214]

Back before Crew Resourse Management was implemented crews were often Willy nilly in cockpit.

[@roberthagedorn290]

10:00 Interesting hypothesis--both pilots were looking out the windshield to maintain visual contact with the airport. No one was watching the instruments.

[@RatPfink66]

Not at all unlikely. CRM wasn't even an idea back then. If the captain had a bug up his ass you helped him look for it!

[@tomservo56954]

I wonder how many people onboard were aware of the passing of newspaper columnist/TV personality Dorothy Kilgallen that morning...or if any caught the first episode of the soap opera DAYS OF OUR LIVES that afternoon.

[@GBEdmonds-j1i]

The check captain secure in his knowledge of the airmanship of the the captain flying decided "well he's doing everything I'll just look around outside" until........... Wow? Just. Wow!!!

[@rhondalight3302]

I'm not even kidding when I say that ALL pilots should be required to watch every single video on this channel. It is FRIGHTNING how many plane crashes there have actually been because it's always argued that it's by far the safest mode of travel, however that's in comparison to the number of automobile crashes, but does NOT mean that there hasn't been MANY MANY plane crashes throughout the years. It is also frightning to learn of the limitless amount of REASONS for tragic crashes and lives lost from a burnt out light bulb to maintenance malfunctions and EVERYTHING in between. I have to believe that reminders of the enourmous numbers of crashes and reasons for them might save lives by being made freshly aware at the beginning of each new year and hopefully come to mind often during possible crashes. Did that make any sense whatsoever? Feel like I screwed the wording of this suggestion up big time.

[@errorsofmodernism9715]

Rhonda, you should teach 3rd grade. You would be very successful

[@deepthinker999]

If you look back over time your concern would be valid. However if you look back say (5) years you would see very few crashes on main line carriers in the USA for (2) reasons. (1) they have learned from their mistakes & (2) technology has gotten a lot better. So flying now with main line carriers in the USA has become safer than ever. Unfortunately the frustration level has gotten worse along with lost luggage. Passenger behavior is probably at an all time low.

[@peteconrad2077]

Our procedures and training are changed as a result of incidents like this.

[@1rem1Art]

Thank you.

[@None-zc5vg]

Some of these jets had 'bar' altimeters that could be misread/misinterpreted, instead of the kind that actually show the actual height in numbers.

[@FH99]

Hopefully they did something to alert arriving aircraft of the hill being there after two planes crashed there during poor visibility. In this case it was a combination of poor visibility and a crew that clearly had a lot to deal with and overlooked some key steps in the landing process which resulted in tragedy.

[@SNATRAVELS]

well of course they did, damn

[@lairdcummings9092]

Yeah, obstacle avoidance warning lights seem called-for.

[@EphemeralProductions]

I’m sure that by now everyone flies IVR (or IFR whatever). To where that hopefully shouldn’t happen

[@julosx]

After the crash of TWA 128 flight, the governor of Ohio, Jim Rhodes, requested runway 18 be closed. After the runway reopened, high intensity lights were installed on the hillside along with glide-slope equipment beacons on recommendation of the National Transportation Safety Board. Thanks Mr. Rhodes.

[@travist7777]

(The best part of these videos for me is the post-crash montage of historic photos depicting sometimes the exact wrecked aircraft in its glory days. Where do you find these? The last still of the aircraft, landing in the sunset, makes me wish that "all airplanes go to Heaven when they die," where they can spend an eternity as shiny-new machines, never aging, doing what they were made to do, with the people who love to operate them and ride in them, forever...) This is why most airlines don't allow circling approaches anymore; you may only be 500' above the ground as you fly around the airfield right under an overcast with reduced visibility, and possibly in pitch black darkness. A visual procedure, but sometimes hairy, none-the-less...

[@gilbertfranklin1537]

Flight Engineer; "Say, guys, you want me to monitor the gauges - since no one else is?" 🤨

[@brucebarr8566]

I had tickets for this flight but when I got to the airport, they said my motor cycle would have to be crated. I had been told only that the gas tank had to be empty. I was 18 and on my way back to UK after picking up my motorcycle.

[@mikedriggers3635]

According to the investigation it sounds like each pilot assumed that the other had it covered. You know what they say about assuming.

[@char1737]

Love the content may I ask were do you get the music ? It adds so much to the presentation

[@edsmith6504]

He must make it. Google doesn't recognize it.

[@N1611n]

Music: The Only Light Is Gone Artist: Dalo Vian kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6famnqOjK6rb9E&ab_channel=Dalovian

[@char1737]

@@N1611n thank you so much

[@N1611n]

@@char1737 You're very welcome.

[@baraxor]

As I've posted before, the flight aids available to pilots then compared to today, makes flying a jet in the1960s look like doing it by the seat of your pants. Add to this a lack of communication/coordination between the pilots, and it's disaster ready to strike.

[@gunsaway1]

We had high performance aircraft but our technology and procedures were way behind the curve. We have come a long way. Thanks Alec great job as usual.

[@thedocnak]

With no CVR how can you say "lack of communication"? There is no evidence this is/was the case.

[@julosx]

@@thedocnak It was more a case of a lack of coordination since none of them (and there were 3 in the cockpit) monitored their altitude until it was too late.

[@joemueller4738]

I was 7 and lived in Cincinnati when this accident happened. I remember my dad telling my brothers and I. It really upset us then and then another crash occurred later in close proximity.

[@johnnyliminal8032]

What’s with the kilometres? I thought all flying was done in nautical miles.

[@rrknl5187]

It's supposed to be..........

[@johnnyliminal8032]

@@rrknl5187 Thank you. I thought maybe it was my CRAZY PILLS. ~8)

[@timnell207]

Please don’t use metric for US events. The controller in the Us would not have reported a position in km. Also, Control VFR is not a term used in the US. Perhaps it was supposed to be Special VFR.

[@tb7214]

You are correct.

[@outwiththem]

Crashed on the left base leg turn. And the other one 2 years later too? Looks like they were doing a sort of VFR short approach in night bad weather. They dont do night short approaches anymore USa airliners. No more at all. Unless very good weather.. Learjet 35 at San Diego El Cajon airport crashed doing a low weather short approach too in Jan 2022 but it was a 135 flight not airliner.

[@SSN515]

At least DB Cooper got out safe

[@jeffreymcfadden9403]

TWICE!

[@localcrew]

Now I’m gonna be nervous flying into Cincinnati.

[@SNATRAVELS]

this was in the 60s damn look at the logo

[@Capecodham]

gonna?

[@JosephStalin-yk2hd]

@@Capecodham gonna?

[@thedocnak]

There's really nothing to worry about, Mary. Statistically, you're more likely to get killed on the way to the airport... you know.. in like a.. head on crash.. or flying off a cliff.. or... getting trapped under a gas truck! Thats the worst! I have this cousin.. well had this cousin....

[@smwca123]

@@thedocnak The late Robert Serling, a respected U.S. aviation writer (and Rod's brother) once said that a husband and wife traveling together would be safer driving to the airport in separate cars, then taking the same plane.

[@flybyairplane3528]

Oddly I recall both airliners crashing into that same hill RIP TO ALL, also B727s were not that old then , I do not know that they had VASI then, 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@julosx]

The second airliner to crash on this hillside (two years later) was a Convair CV-880, not a 727.

[@bakugoukatsuki8333]

The crash was not at night, it wasn’t dark. I was in our house in Constance with my friend Cheryl. My mother was working in our grocery store across the road. I opened the back door and a terrible gust of wind grabbed the door open out of my hand. My mother was screaming for us to close the windows because the storm was coming. There was a terrible sound of thunder. We didn’t hear the plane crash, after the rain it was still light. We went outside and looked down towards the store, that is when the first wave of smell came from the fire at the plane. We went down towards the road and the ambulances started coming one after the other, our dog was afraid of all the sirens, he ran across the street to my mother. She came and got me. The ambulances came for a long time. One of the volunteer fireman left our store to go help. This went on for a long time that evening. I don’t know about all the technical details & blame but I remember the wind and the storm. The people who died were not alone, volunteers came up through the woods to get them. I remember the second it happened and it was the storm that killed them.

[@deepthinker999]

Very Well Said !!!

[@rockadoodoo]

I’m not a brilliant person, but when those guys committed to VFR and the tower said there was a line of showers south of the field, right then I was praying for a future go around and IFR. Not to be 😢.

[@RatPfink66]

Maybe a vid about TWA 128 is in order comparing the circumstances of the 2 accidents. Like most air crashes 50+ years ago, it's only a local story now.

[@alun101]

Great video. Maybe change the subtitles at the same time as the pictures?

[@sbolden123]

No bells or whistles to warn them 💯😭🙏. Terrain, Pull up!

[@slidefirst694]

VFR at night in the rain, not very bright.

[@lairdcummings9092]

No, rather dark, actually.

[@williamtfinnegan1359]

In 1965 for domestic flight, expect distances in miiles not km. ?

[@EphemeralProductions]

Well this would have been one of the best ways to go. Don’t see anything, don’t know anything’s comin, then WHAM! No pain or Suffering, just movin on into the next world.

[@lairdcummings9092]

Except that there were survivors... Which raises the possibility of passengers and crew perishing sometime *after* the crash, but before responders arrived.

[@diane8885]

My dad was killed on this flight. He was 39 years old. I was 10, my sister was 8. You have no idea if those who died were killed instantly. My mom never really got over his death. You have no idea.

[@EphemeralProductions]

@@diane8885 so sorry my dear. ❤️

[@12jazon]

@@diane8885 that's true. We have no idea. We all hope his death was immediate though, so he didn't have to suffer. I had a friend die similarly last year, and I hope he didn't suffer. He did, however, see it coming. I'm so sorry for your loss.

[@ervinthompson6598]

Google Texas International Airlines Flight 655-- same scenario, flew into an Arkansas mountain at 200 knots in the dark in 1973 - The coroner said with the G-forces involved and resulting disintegration of the aircraft, it was likely no one aboard knew what hit them(all died on impact -the wreckage is so inaccessible on the upslope, it remains there to this day.)

[@kevinmalone3210]

You would think, that just by the nature of aviation, commercial airports would built on flatland, for miles around.

[@frankblangeard8865]

At 1:41 it is shown that the altimeter setting is 30.1 inches and that the barometric pressure setting is 815 feet "above". I assume that these numbers should be reversed. Then at 3;22 is shown Altimeter 37. What would 'Altimeter 37' mean in that situation?

[@Tevildo]

"815 above" meant that, with the altimeter setting (the QNH) at 30.1, it would read 815 feet at the runway elevation. So, for the altimeter to read zero on touchdown (the QFE), the pilot should start by setting it to 30.1, then reduce the setting by 815 feet. This was standard procedure at the time, rather than giving the QFE (in this case, 29.03) directly. See page 14 of the official report. Today, the altimeter is always set to the QNH, so that it would read 815 rather than zero at touchdown. "37" is a transcription mistake - the controller said "three even", meaning 30.00. This isn't standard phraseology, but didn't contribute to the accident - the altimeters were found to be set correctly.

[@miked5539]

@@Tevildo I was flying back then and never heard of this procedure.

[@Tevildo]

@@miked5539 I agree it sounds like an odd way of doing it, but the official report states that it was standard AA practice. I believe it was so that the pilot could quickly re-select the QNH by turning the offset to zero in the event of a go-around, rather than having to remember what it was or ask the controller again.

[@georgeconway4360]

Both American Airlines and Eastern Airlines used QFE not QNH for approach and landing QNH gives you an altitude reading reference sea level QFE gives you an altitude reference the touchdown for the runway in use. In foreign countries QFE is issued by Air Traffic Control. At American and Eastern the company provided the QFE.

[@merckmaguddayao6814]

American Airlines Flight 383 is a cursed number. In 2016, that very same flight suffered an engine fire during takeoff at O'Hare and 21 were injured. Luckily there were no fatalities.

[@DeltaFoxtrotWhiskey3]

No such thing as a cursed number. Two incidents in fifty years? That's no a curse. People have more bad things happen to them during their daily lives. I'd love to know that I was going to only have two bad things happen in the course of fifty years. That would mean I could reasonably expect only three bad things to happen to me for my entire life.

[@lairdcummings9092]

A (hypothetical) perfect storm of self-reenforcing confirmation bias, with tragic results. I wonder... Did the airport authorities arrange obstacle avoidance lights to that hill after the second crash? It seems prudent.

[@hirisk761]

nope they didn't. I've driven past the site and nothing but a memorial sign

[@julosx]

After the crash of TWA flight 128 two years later, the governor of Ohio, Jim Rhodes, requested runway 18 be closed. After the runway reopened, high intensity lights were installed on the hillside along with glide-slope equipment beacons on recommendation of the National Transportation Safety Board.

[@lairdcummings9092]

@@julosx good to know; thanks!

[@DrMatey215]

Amazing anyone survived...,

[@geewizz5311]

Why didnt atc let them know they were too low?

[@lairdcummings9092]

Ground control was much less sophisticated and less prevalent at that time.

[@stuartlee6622]

You MUST do Northwest Flight 710!!!!

[@billcoltharp]

What does “baro 815 ft. above” mean? What does “altimeter 37”mean?

[@essencetoney933]

I use to work at CVG

[@muffs55mercury61]

This is such an accident prone airport dating back to 1948.

[@kitbaker8521]

Kilometers? What's that?

[@northmaineguy5896]

Did he pass his check ride?

[@waffle911]

"Too low, Terrain. Pull. Up!"

[@Tevildo]

This accident is one of the motivations for the introduction of GPWS. All safety systems on aircraft arise from disaster.

[@12jazon]

@@Tevildo yes...the road to aircraft safety is truly paved with blood.

[@jameswells9011]

Didn’t the approach plate show the minimum altitudes for the down wind and base leg?

[@markprange4386]

No.

[@VickersV]

The topography is was they misread.

[@cosmo_thenaut]

You should do Midwest Express 105.

[@illegalprime3626]

Why is the series number on the 727 two digits, I don't think any other Boeing aircraft had this.

[@smwca123]

@bartsolari3168 Which for AA were -223; the -23s were retroed to -123.

[@manuelgordilloocampo262]

10:48 *Next video, TWA Flight 128*

[@yankeeairpirate1799]

In the US neither ATC o4 pilots use kilometers.....you need to stop with the KM and revert to miles...to be accurate

[@deepthinker999]

The rest of the world be damned America operates on their own standard and we know America is always right.

[@docwill184]

Now that it doesn't matter with modern navigation and voice warnings, how's about somebody put a light up there?

[@hack1n8r]

Question -- why metric? I didn't think it was used in the 60's here in the US, and it's certainly not used today in the US. In fact, China is in the process of converting to the Imperial Standard. In the future, IF you use metric for a flight in the USA, please also show its equivalent in today's standards. Not many Americans can visualize how far 6km or 50km is, and for us pilots who are used to the Imperial System, we don't know if someone is to high or too low on approach when metric is exclusively used -- unless we break out a calculator... In short, if its a US/Canada flight, use feet, nautical miles, knots, pounds, inHg. Otherwise, feel free to use metric for most of Europe & the UK. Thank you.

[@egpx]

ICAO standards are a mish-mash of units. For navigation, distances are measured in nautical miles. Altitude is in feet, or Flight Levels which are based on feet. Visibility is measured in metres/kilometres, cloud height in feet, pressure in hectopascals which are millibars by another name. Speed is measured in knots or mach number. Individual states are allowed to use different units hence USA still using inches of mercury for pressure and (I think) statute miles for visibility. The UK continued to call hectopascals 'millibars' for many years as the change was purely cosmetic but is now in the hectopascal club.

[@hack1n8r]

@@egpx Yes, and no. In North America, (US & ,Canada), The FAA and TCCA govern Aviation Standards for their respective countries, not the ICAO. With that said, both agencies employ **certain** ICAO standards, such as for Airline and Airport identifiers, but use their own formalized standards in aviation governance. Therefore in the US: • Barometric Pressure is measured in inHg (inches of mercury), not hPa (hectopascals). • Distance is expressed in feet or nautical miles. • Weight is expressed in pounds. "Ton" is rarely used in US aviation due to potential confusion with the British Ton and the Metric Tonne. But, IF it is used in the US, it *always* means US Ton, and is equivalent to 2,000 pounds. Instead of 'Ton', for weights over 1,000 pounds, the term "thousand pounds" is used. • Altitude is expressed in feet. • Flight Levels are in hundreds of feet. • Speed is in either Knots or Mach. • Temperature is expressed in both F and C, with C being ptlreferred. Airbus uses "QNH" for both hPa or inHg, depending on the region of operation. However, QNH is correct only for hPa, not inHg. As such, lovely Airbus has only added to this confusion. Boeing and other non-Airbus aircraft correctly use "Altimeter" for inHg, and "QNH" for hPa (or millibars).

[@egpx]

@@hack1n8r yeah, I wasn't implying ICAO has governance, just it sets standards and countries can differ if they want. Obviously, an international business like aviation benefits from international standards. I've always felt that altimetry in particular is the area where everyone should sing from the same hymn sheet. It doesn't matter which hymn sheet that is, using just one of them means less chance for confusion.

[@deepthinker999]

@@egpx There have been historical air travel issues because of this mess. English is the International Standard for Business. There should be an international standard for air travel. Leaving it this way is asking for trouble (in my opinion).

[@blrenx]

Little was known about Microbursts at the time. I wonder the NTSB reviews past conclusions?

[@dalaweez]

The whole reason why you would now hear, "Terrain, pullup. Terrain, Pullup! Three people in the cabin and none of them thought to look at the altimeter. What a shame.

[@georgeconway4360]

You would not get a pull-up warning today with GPWS because they were in a landing configuration. If you are going to land you have to get close to the ground. Hard to touch down with no terrain.

[@kenclark9888]

Kilometers are not used in US air traffic control

[@vfx7t]

Captain Teelin okay !!

[@MorganBrown]

1965...buckle up, this is gonna be ugly

[@Capecodham]

gonna?

[@JosephStalin-yk2hd]

@@Capecodham gonna?

[@jakerson181]

@@Capecodham Gonna as in you're gonna have zero people at your funeral cause nobody can stand you. Gonna. Hope that was helpful.

[@thedocnak]

@@jakerson181 oooooh burn

[@BassGirlSusan1961]

Long before the days of CRM. Damn shame. Not communicating well enough with each other.

[@paulcooper8818]

Do large passenger airline flights ever do VFR these days? I wouldn't think so.

[@bobmillerick300]

Yes, during the day, when its VFR.

[@jakejacobs7584]

Read my comment above yours, we actually did for some time. Flying in South America kind of broke us of the habit.

[@B1970T]

In the U.S they do not, unless that flight is flown under a Part 91 regulation operation, like a repositioning or maintenance flight . Air carrier operations are flown under under Part 121 regulations.

[@jakejacobs7584]

@@B1970T part 91 or part 121 have nothing to do with VFR or IFR other than the minimums you can fly to and the ops specs for the particular operator.

[@sawning3449]

747 freighters will do VFR if the conditions are right. Good skill to maintain.

[@northmaineguy5896]

There's a major error in your video; Captain Teelin's first name is "Daniel" not "David."

[@tomperkins5657]

So, obviously, no lights placed on that hill for guidance and warnings.

[@antonfarquar8799]

ouch !!!!

[@Heavenlydaz]

The aviation world uses nautical miles for distance measurement, not kilometers.

[@vet6822]

+If you are going to post these vids,please speak in MPH,distance and speed in NON metric.

[@peteconrad2077]

Why? Most of the world uses metric.

[@mph1ish]

@@peteconrad2077 Not in aviation.

[@peteconrad2077]

@@mph1ish this isn’t for an aviation professional audience. It’s a public channel for laymen. Besides it’s only altitude, speed and navigational distance that are standardised as imperial. Most o f the world uses metric/SI for visibility, runway visual range, mass, temperature, atmospheric pressure and thrust.

[@someonee3186]

Rip the passengers killed in this incident.

[@jimmorgan5612]

What is the kilometer crap?

[@scottl.1568]

What a bloody mess

[@petuniaskunk2316]

R.I.P to 58 people on board killed.

[@SNATRAVELS]

They been resting for along time, do you know this happened in the 60s?

[@petuniaskunk2316]

@@SNATRAVELS yes

[@donnabaardsen5372]

@@SNATRAVELS One can offer condolences anytime, in memory of the deceased. Why on earth do you think people dedicate songs, books, etc to them long after they've died? Common sense.

[@Capecodham]

57 years later you are saying rip?

[@Capecodham]

@@donnabaardsen5372 "Virtue Signaling by posting RIP all over the internet while doing actually nothing to better the world. Social media narcissism at its finest." kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoXQdKuYmLeLqZY

[@bill2953]

Well done video but the post could have rated a lot higher if you would have included a brief account of the event before pleading for support. Capice?

[@loislane4583]

Good lookin plane though..

[@billb7876]

Are you allowed to say "Slope"? Jeremy Clarkson got in trouble for that

[@arturo468]

Just as well that overconfident but incompetent pilots like some on this aircraft can kill their passengers. I suspect that it was the training captain who is responsible for this crash, not the pilot in the left seat.

[@thedocnak]

nitwit

[@kpn574]

Lot of assumptions by the pilots. Have always believed in the old adage that to assume is to make an ASS out of U and ME. RIP; souls who lost their lives🙏

[@anthonymichalski9015]

time to move the airport or bulldoze those hills and make it a bit of a safer landing zone - 2 crashes in 2 years in almost the same weather/visibility.

[@bullseyes1983]

Life before simulators and gwps.

[@CivilDefenseSoutherner]

You should make Space Shuttle Columbia disaster from 2003

[@celtc7875]

he already did

[@CivilDefenseSoutherner]

@@celtc7875 he uploaded the Challenger disaster from 1986 about 5 years ago.

[@Capecodham]

@@celtc7875 poorly

[@JosephStalin-yk2hd]

@@Capecodham amazingly*

[@celtc7875]

oops.

[@Capecodham]

Also, much better than Allec: 'Deadstick' Cessna 205 Forced Landing Hillsboro Ore Feb 2022 - KZbin

[@JosephStalin-yk2hd]

I can see why the channel is called ‘deadstick,’ probably because his channel is dead, and just like your soul gramps

[@thedocnak]

@@JosephStalin-yk2hd ooooh burn

[@deepthinker999]

Please praise Allec for all that he does right instead of the few things that need improvement. For a man of his age his work is outstanding.

[@Capecodham]

@@deepthinker999 How old is he?

[@deepthinker999]

@@Capecodham 20s I think. He recently started flying training. I don't believe English is his native tongue. By all accounts a really nice fellow. A lot of people are pulling for him.

[@davesmith5656]

Another one crashed in the same place two years later? Spare parts collection, anyone? Put a beacon on that hill, dimwits.