CANON C80 6K RAW - how to handle noise and shoot in 60p

[@monellifilms]

Hey Everyone, I will be doing a Part 2 to this video. I’ve seen some great questions and want to test a few different things. If you have any specific questions please let me know here. I also want to clarify the “in-camera noise reduction in raw” part because the camera DOESN’T actually apply it (even though it lets you adjust it). I thought I discovered this new feature but no. We will go through that in part 2. Thanks for watching. Please subscribe.

[@michaelwenzel7352]

Do you find your set wheel and the rear dial are a little looser compared to a mirrorless canon? There seems to be some play in my wheel, and the rear dial is definitely looser than the top dial. Thanks in advance!!

[@Bigideaphotovideoplus]

Hey Al, nice job on another video! I'm happy to hear someone advocating for Wide DR for certain projects. For a future video, it would be great to see how you post-process Wide DR in FCPX--sounds like it is some minor finishing touches.

[@monellifilms]

Thanks, Jeff! Yeah I think a WideDR video is a great idea. What are you shooting on these days?

[@SoundOfYourDestiny]

What is "Wide DR?"

[@monellifilms]

@ Wide DR is a Canon picture profile like C-Log2 but with a slight curve added so it looks good right out of the box. No LUT conversion needed. It’s good for quick turnarounds and still has a decent amount of dynamic range. I like it a lot actually and use it sometimes over C-Log2

[@SoundOfYourDestiny]

@@monellifilms Thanks for the info.

[@FrontmanVideo]

Thanks for pointing out these little details. It reminds me that I don't need to consider the C80 because my C70 continues to do the job just fine.

[@monellifilms]

Cool thanks for watching

[@j.zuberi]

Appreciate u doing this for us!

[@monellifilms]

@@j.zuberi thanks i appreciate you watching!

[@scottlawrencephoto]

Great work!

[@monellifilms]

Thanks fir watching!

[@purefocusphotography3614]

Did notice, you have a pixel out potentially. I had to return my C80 for a replacement. It's more obvious on the shots around 6:37. It's to the right side of your face, around ear height.

[@monellifilms]

Oh man I don’t see it but thanks for bringing this to my attention! I will check it out and run a few tests.

[@DonnyWesthouse]

Thanks for the video. I know I'm not the only one, but I honestly just want them to enable 6K in 422 10-bit internal (non-raw) recording. I feel the file sizes of recording interviews in 6K RAW LT will be too big for smaller productions.

[@monellifilms]

@@DonnyWesthouse that’s my biggest wish too. I’m hoping they can add it via firmware just like the C70 added raw. The cynical side of me thinks no because i owned the C100 and C100 Mark II for years (still do) and always hoped they would add 4k to them but never did. C100 has a 4k sensor so i thought it made sense. Then the C200 came out and it was all over

[@martinwallmen3048]

Thank you for this video, very helpful.

[@monellifilms]

Thanks for watching! I’m going to be doing a part 2 as well so if you have any specific questions please let me know

[@raredreamfootage]

What would be the difference if Base = 12,800 + ISO = 3,200 versus Base = 3,200 + ISO = 3,200?

[@monellifilms]

I am doing a follow-up video about Raw shooting and will do this test for you. I’m curious how different the noise would be as well (in raw and in XFAVC)

[@joef479]

Used my C80 for the first time the other day and was a little concerned with the autofocus performance. My C70 seemed more reliable, gonna try turning off the eye detect... Nice Red Barons hat!

[@monellifilms]

@@joef479 yeah i was concerned too but i think i found the right combo of settings. I’m coming from a C200 which was basically a box on the frame and you could do people detect priority. This has so many other options but i took it on a shoot today and it did great in the interview and tracking in b-roll. And thank you, gotta represent SWB

[@joef479]

@@monellifilms My first gig out of LCC was shooting their games for then PCTN, now WYLN, out of Hazelton. They'll always have a place in my heart.

[@monellifilms]

@ that’s awesome! Are you still in NEPA?

[@joef479]

@@monellifilms Not anymore, although we were just there to visit between Christmas and New Years. My, and my wife's, family still live in the Back Mountain area. We've been in NC for the past 27 years.

[@dvgm1]

I went from an r6 to r5c to a c80 and have found the C80 blows the others away. The new firmware on the r5c has seemed to help a bit though, hope you sort it out!

[@DavidEllsDP]

I think you might be wrong about noise reduction having an effect in raw. Do you have any evidence that this is the case besides that the menu lets you change it while you’re in raw mode? I appreciate the tests!

[@monellifilms]

I think my mistake was not zooming in on the images when adding spatial filter. When I zoom in on my computer I can see a slight difference. The manual also never mentions noise reduction cannot work in raw. I assume that would be mentioned but maybe not. I feel like noise reduction is really most useful for raw recording so it’s strange if they don’t allow it in raw. Do you shoot raw? I likely won’t be

[@monellifilms]

@@DavidEllsDP the other strange thing is canon typically greys out a menu option if it’s not possible to use in your camera’s current settings. That’s why I assumed it worked and may have been new to the C80. But yeah, you certainly might be right because my eyes can be deceiving me when looking into the spatial filter test. It should be a much bigger jump than I’m seeing.

[@DavidEllsDP]

@ I don’t shoot raw specifically because of noise and the workflow in premiere. I would for a product ad though. Just not my niche.

[@DavidEllsDP]

@ I know raw has changed in meaning since it was first used but I’ve never heard of in camera noise reduction affecting the raw recording. Without mention of it in the manual it’s hard to call though I agree.

[@monellifilms]

@@DavidEllsDP i’m going to say you’re probably right. I just don’t know why canon lets you adjust it though? They always grey out options. I also thought because it’s the lowest version of canon raw light (LT) that you could manipulate extra things if you want. Oh well. Canon is strange but I love them. Thanks for bringing this up.

[@scottievee330]

I shoot the C400 w/24-105 2.8. I haven't had issues with focus hunting but I did hear that if you turn off "Eye" focus it works better. And YES shoot under the base in ISO... The new-ish Canon 709 codec (all the way down) is amazing for a fast turn around. Punchier contrast.

[@monellifilms]

@@scottievee330 when i adjusted the settings for a doc shoot i went on today it worked great. So i’m happy now. I tried Canon 709 but i think i’m just used to the widedr look because i’ve been using it since 2014. Thanks for your comment!

[@scottievee330]

@@monellifilms Sure. I'm a fan of WDR too. I've used it plenty.

[@FrejCreative]

How do you change RAW settings in FCPX like ISO and White balance? Not via a normal color wheels but like how you can change the RAW information. I cant find it in the clip inspector.

[@monellifilms]

@@FrejCreative you have to download a separate software like Canon Raw Development. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIqnZoFqad6fbpIfeature=shared

[@numara585]

I have several reservations about purchasing this camera. While it looks great on paper, it has numerous flaws in real-world use. Is it still worth buying?

[@monellifilms]

@@numara585 what flaws are you concerned about? I can address those for you. I just got done with a shoot and it worked great but we may have totally different needs. I would love a RED camera but it’s not practical for my work

[@numara585]

@ Well, the claimed 16 Stops of dynamic range, and the noise. Thanks

[@DiffFamilyReviews]

Nice video. Watching on an iPhone so I couldn’t quite tell the difference in noise reduction when you set it to auto in 6k. Did you notice a big difference when set to auto?

[@monellifilms]

Honestly, no. Not unless i zoom in to the image. I’m not a fan of pixel peeping because if you can’t see it in a normal viewing then it’s not really a problem to me. Too many youtubers are focused on the analytics and not the art.

[@monellifilms]

@@DiffFamilyReviews so it appears the noise reduction cannot be added in Raw LT. I was under the impression it could because canon didn’t grey out the option like it always does when an option isn’t available in your current camera settings. LT is also the lightest version of raw they have (below HQ and ST) so i thought they decided to allow it in this version. That’s not the case. The in-camera noise reduction only works in a codec, not raw (even though you can still manipulate it).

[@DiffFamilyReviews]

@@monellifilms Interesting. I do wish they would have included an AVC and HEVC codec for 6k. I’m shooting all 4K right now on my C80. I’d have to do more test with grading 6k before I felt comfortable on a paid gig.

[@monellifilms]

@ i’m definitely hoping they add 6k shooting to the codecs in a firmware update. You never know. They added internal raw to the C70 via firmware update so it’s possible. I’m going to do a Part 2 about raw because i’m getting some good questions and want to talk about a few extra things. If you have any questions just let me know.

[@salvamando1]

Thanks for posting this, very helpful and your footage always looks awesome! One caveat about recording to an Atomos Ninja, according to the Atomos documentation, it is my understanding that it is only possible with the V+ and Ultra versions, not the OG Ninja V or even the newer “regular” Ninja. I may be wrong about that. I managed to record 60k60 with the Ninja Ultra and it looks great BUT, it does record in ProRes Raw, which unfortunately Davinci Resolve does not support, though there are workarounds - such as converting ProRes Raw into CinemaDNG Raw, which DR does support. FCP and Adobe Premiere Pro does support ProRes Raw. It would be awesome if 4k60 Raw would be possible in a future firmware update!

[@MrMoviePhoneEx]

Curious to get your take on this, but there’s another shooter on here saying when you take the NR off you end up with much less dynamic range on the canon cine cams - as in the in the cam NR push is what gives you the higher dynamic range ability. Think they said without DR on you only get around 11stops before things really start falling apart. Personally I’m a canon fan, but most of my work is 10bit 422 all-I commercial work, haven’t had a working need to dip into RAW for anything yet except to experiment. But speaking of space, 60fps St Full Frame is something like a 2k data rate… Nothing like popping in a TB+ card for 60min of record time!

[@monellifilms]

@@MrMoviePhoneEx i haven’t heard that one before. Do you have the link to that video?

[@avdpost]

Really wish Canon sprung for express type A cards slots Would have allowed for up to 1600 megabits/s vs v90 maxing at 720megabits/s. 6k60 would have been easy.

[@benp712]

They did that on purpose because they want you to get the c400 instead…nothing to wish for it’s by design. They will always make sure they don’t cannibalise their own products.

[@monellifilms]

@@avdpost yeah canon is a funny company. I love them but there’s always some weird omission (“cripple hammer”). The sd cards aren’t bad though and at least you can output 6k60 raw to an atomos ninja/shogun

[@MoonshotTim]

Good lord those files sizes. S5iix internal 6k opengate recording 24fps is 200mbps. Haven’t tried Blackmagic Log yet or prores raw yet. Great video. Love your style.

[@monellifilms]

Yeah and this isn’t even a robust version of “raw.” The LT is the lightest Canon has. Thanks for the comment Moonshot!

[@MrMoviePhoneEx]

Got to get those numbers up, those are rookie numbers :D

[@SamA-kl6pi]

Don’t ever shoot on an R5c then 😅 1800 in raw

[@MrJayclas]

The file sizes are actually small, under 70MB/s while my Black Magic Cinema 6k can go as high as 800 megabytes per second. Remember the Canon shoots in mega BITS.

[@Abdi_Mohamed_]

These recording resolutions limitations are due to the cards If this had the ability to record external to a SSD like the s5iix then it would have unlocked a whole host of resolutions I just don’t understand why camera manufacturers don’t adopt this method if they don’t want to redesign the body to accommodate the CF cards

[@monellifilms]

@@Abdi_Mohamed_ it can export up to 6k60 raw to the atomos ninja/shogun. The sensor is a 6k sensor so it can’t go any higher than 6k. But yeah, i’m sure canon has other output limitations i’m not aware of. They love adding limitations!

[@baekmedier]

I got the C400 and im comming from the C70 since they came out.. the C400 has REALLY BAD AF :) its not just you. They need to fixed it in a firmware.. its really bad right now.. my C70 cameras is better right now and that says a lot. The R1 on the other hand..

[@monellifilms]

@@baekmedier interesting. I found a settings combo that seems to work well for me. I’m coming from the C200 and the autofocus on that is very basic (and I liked it) so it took me some trial and error. What settings are you using in AF? Do you like the C400 otherwise?

[@baekmedier]

@@monellifilms I have been shooting on the C70 since december 2020 and as of right now the AF works better on those with latest firmware for me. Maybe it is because I havent had it out much because I got scared when I tried the AF inside my living room.. But until i get it right ill keep using the two C70 setup i got for interviews for client work. Im not risking anything before im totally sure it can perform. But yes the C400 is a dream come true. The full frame without having to use speedbooster and the older EF lenses is so nice. But the biggest thing is that I can now use my RF 24-105 and actually get the wide end is amazing.

[@dukebozikowski3801]

Canon should have just given us the sensor from the c500 II. 10.5 stops of dynamic range for the c400 and c80 is just unacceptable

[@monellifilms]

Coming from the C200 it looks great to me. I love using it and think the dynamic range is great. The camera does have its quirks that bother me though. The C500 II sensor wouldn’t have been able to do triple base iso or autofocus on the entire frame. The BSI sensor here allows that. C500 is obviously a great image though. You cant go wrong with these cameras. Thanks for watching

[@MrJayclas]

@@monellifilmsI’m getting 6k 60 in 21:9 on my Black Magic Cinena camera on a CF express which are cheaper and much faster than v90 SD cards. I’m do happy I went with Black Magic.

[@dukebozikowski3801]

@@monellifilms Good to hear. In practice if the DR is good then this is the best camera on the market

[@monellifilms]

@@MrJayclas that’s great. Blackmagic definitely produces a beautiful image but i’ve never been a fan of them simply because of my shooting style and needs. They typically lack things a cinema verite shooter needs (autofocus, ND filters, good audio). Not to say they can’t be used that way but I always preferred Canon because of those aspects. Canon has always been behind in specs and dynamic range

[@monellifilms]

@@dukebozikowski3801 the raw is definitely very noisey though. My biggest issue with the camera. But i likely wont be shooting raw very much at all

[@SoundOfYourDestiny]

The fact that the R1 offers better video recording (at higher frame rates) than this "cinema" camera is absurd. When you combine that with the reported poor noise and dynamic-range performance of the C80, you get a returned C80, Canon. I've been dealing with noise and shitty DR for 10 years with my BMPC 4K, but at least it has a global shutter. When I shell out $6K for a camera in 2025, it better not be crippled by noise that requires "workarounds" right out of the box. Especially when it's a full-frame sensor that should be kicking ass in low light. The irritating thing is that NOBODY has done a detailed test of the R1's video performance. It's baffling.

[@monellifilms]

@@SoundOfYourDestiny specs aren’t the only barometer to judge a camera. The R1 is more expensive and has no built-in ND, no quality audio preamps, no fan (which means it will overheat when shooting raw at some point), and the only advantage in frame rates is 6k60 raw. If specs were the most important thing then the R5C and R5 Mark II would be chosen over the C80 100% of the time with their 8k recording. But those other limitations (not to mention rolling shutter) are why people choose cinema cameras over mirrorless for video. And Raw is noisey on every sensor. The C80 should handle it a little better but it’s not the worst ever. It’s average in raw noise. I would love to see an R1 video overview as well but I remember some famous youtuber saying he’d rather an R5II for video over the R1 (maybe Peter McKinnon? Can’t remember). I would say try the C80 before knocking it based on specs and what some youtubers said (good or bad). Thanks for watching!

[@SoundOfYourDestiny]

@@monellifilms Thanks for the reply. 6K 60 raw is not the only better mode the R1 has than the C80, however. It shoots most modes in regular raw, whereas the C80 is mostly "raw light." The overheating is certainly a concern, but since nobody is testing this thing we don't know. It's pretty massive, so it may have adequate heat sinks. Not sure what you mean about the rolling shutter causing people to choose cinema cameras, because they mostly have rolling shutters and the C80 is only good in that department. The R1 is supposed to have a very fast sensor, but again... no tests. The lack of NDs is a convenience drawback, certainly. Audio preamps? I never record production audio on a camera; it's a use case I can't take seriously, because who's going to run a bunch of wires to a camera and drag them around while trying to get shots? Baffling. For documentaries maybe, but even then you can use an audio module that feeds into the camera's mic input. Another drawback to the R1 is the lack of a Super35 mode. That's pretty inexcusable, given its price and the fact that most of its competitors offer that.

[@FilmAndStar]

£5,338.80 and all you need to do is.... bear with me 😂😂😂..... nah how about a camera that can do good for less ? do you mean FX3 ? ahhhhh yeah that one !

[@monellifilms]

Not entirely sure what you’re referencing. The FX3 is certainly a great camera but lacks built-in ND, internal raw, and 6k resolution. The noise reduction is also baked in to the FX3/6 image and you can’t modify it. Incredible image though

[@FilmAndStar]

…that’s literally what I mean 😇 …and in all fairness ProresRaw isn’t far from canon’s LT… so yeah about that