Almost all headphones are inaccurate. Only these are good.

[@zeissiez]

For those in a hurry, HD600/650/660s are the only headphones recommended in the video.

[@kromal92]

XD

[@racializedkanadian]

Good. The 650's are what I own.

[@namvu1956]

But it appears that the youtuber prefers the hd660s the most amongst those

[@nikm3r]

Thank you. The video is extremely long for no reason ...

[@standard_lines9981]

As they should be. I have the Focal Elex, they're leagues ahead of any 600 series, but I'd still rather mix on a pair of 650s that are corrected with Sonarworks.

[@TheCraigAnderton]

Back in the "big studio" days we listened to mixes on multiple monitor systems, and listened on headphones for a reality check. Given that headphones and earbuds have become the main way consumers listen to music, now I check mixes over muitiple headphones and do a reality check on speakers. I've given up any hope whatsoever about the quality of playback systems being used for music. IMHO the best reason for relying primarily on headphones like the 600 series is that everything else will screw up the sound more or less equally :)

[@JoshuaMolotov]

Yea, back in the days many had a nice hifi stereo in the living room with a vinyl player. IMAGINE. Analog media! No digital compression, no spotify bitrate, no overcompression and limiting to be louder than the other guys, full stereo, high quality amp, passive speakers. Even in the CD days! Still no bit compression, only sampled at 44kHz, which sounds fine. Even connecting your Spotify to your digital amplifier over bluetooth still sounds great on a home stereo. Truth be told: the absolute disgraceful plain crap that people call music and that is popular nowadays might even sound better on a JBL mono bluetooth speaker than on a nice home stereo. Until the mid 2000's, even hit music was well made and worth listening to on high quality speakers. Compared to Ed Sheeran, Madonna is like a Beethoven Symphony. If you put Missy Eliott next to Niki Minaj, Missy Eliott is a stylish nightingale. I can go on... Spotify, stream tyranny, scumbag money machine labels and musicians feeling like they need to be influencers all massively decreased the overall quality of music.

[@iliketoast-q9b]

​@@JoshuaMolotov This doesn't relate to headphones whatsoever. Older mixes do not sound better if you ask me. Especially bass lines were pretty crappy back in the day and it's become quite rare to encoutner an unbalanced mix, that happened mostly with old school mixes. Things weren't better back, technology has moved on and the loudness wars are over. There is more to dynamics in music than compression and limiting and file compression is inaudible these days, since we have FLAC and 320kbit/s is standard with MP3s. And please explain why passive speakers are somehow noteworthy for being more prevalent back in the day? If you can afford it active speakers with DSP are the way to go, clearly. Been building speakers for 15 years, passive is almost always a compromise.

[@mezmerya5130]

@@iliketoast-q9b i may sound sacrilegious, but i've listened to the OG black sabbath vinyl from 70ies, and they are atrocious. They feel like they were recorded in a basement with no dampening and every effort had been made to surpass the limitations of a tape machine(and also the stuff consumers had), mostly turning up the gain to 11, lol, but they are still bad. For the same reason radio mixes were a thing. They tried to make the music that sounded adequately from an auto squeaker that produced to play cut everything but mids.

[@Lychegsye-nc6td]

in the age where youtubers are too afraid to lose their "sponsers" by actually giving bad reviews to certain products, I fkin love ur balls for ACTUALLY sayin what is good and bad (with reasons). I love this video and I subbed immediately.

[@APMastering]

thanks!

[@3m63r3]

@APMastering Carrying the torch for Ethan 🔥

[@theexpatgunner]

Also subbed :)

[@ileryon4019]

Kinda gay ​@@Lychegsye-nc6td bro why do you love his balls

[@mohitrahaman]

He pisses of so many people and gets bad rap from them i guess those people are actually from the brand themselves :D

[@GrandmasterKnox]

I was a Sennheiser guy for over ten years, but after getting tired of replacing pads every year (especially now that the quality seemed to have dropped), I bought a FiiO FT3 and I haven't looked back. I think any headphones are fair for mixing if you know what you are doing and most importantly, you understand how music translates in it. For me, the biggest mistake of mixing with headphones is not using your headphones. It's so much harder to mix with headphones if you only put them on to mix, or if you use them all the time but you enable a specific software or curve to make them sound "studio ready" when mixing. Usually when I mix with headphones, I'm not looking for accuracy, but for familiarity. I want my mixes to sound like the music I listen to, and that works fine for me.

[@patkelly8309]

That makes a lot of sense cheers.

[@emptyshellaxiom]

100% agreed. The headphones you're familiar to, as long as they're not crappy 30€ stuff, will do better that high-end material you're not familiar to.

[@jstew512]

I agree, also I feel like nothing compares to listening to recordings you admire on multiple systems, and of course your own gear. I feel like I can get a good mix on any reasonable set up as long as I reference some top notch recordings on it first.

[@MikeTaffet]

I have the HD600/HD660s and replaced the pads on both sets with ZMF pads. They’re amazing and likely won’t have to be replaced anytime in the near future

[@GrandmasterKnox]

@@MikeTaffet That's good to know, thanks. Last one I got directly from Sennheiser didn't last a year before they unglued and started showing the insides of the pads.

[@3m63r3]

Went down a similar rabbit hole myself. Ended up just buying a new set of earpads for my HD600s, happy days

[@APMastering]

ha ha exactly!

[@veritas7010]

tru

[@mikafoxx2717]

The HD600's aren't perfect, but beyond the light bass, they're quite good when the ear pads aren't worn out. When they are, it's almost like listening to just mids when you compare to a speaker. It's not just mids, but they definitely stick out a lot. My favorite are the Sundara's with the 2020 pad revision for their extra technical performance, decent mids but extended bass and treble. Sounds flatter than the 600's but very slightly less mids ~1.5khz. mild EQ around there and the bass helps a lot and the lie distortion makes it have no effect on technical performance. Most studio headphones are a rip-off though, the 600's are about the best that get recommended for that use, besides maybe the MM-500 but I've never heard that one.

[@banterbanter]

I prefer my LCD-X's to my HD650's by a mile, personally, for mixing - along with sonarworks reference.

[@goosmdoosm4755]

New as in from the OEM, or 3rd party? Me personally, I did not like their velours, so I found a fancy fenestrated suede pad that was close to vanilla tuning.

[@stateazure]

As a composer and producer who mixes and masters my own music, the HD-25s were my go to for a long time, they may not be the most accurate, but as with all headphones if you spend enough time with them and learn them really well over months/years, they'll reward you. I then moved onto LCD-X /w EQ adjustment (huge improvement - but too heavy/uncomfortable for long sessions) then to Arya Stealth's. The Arya Stealth magnetics are by far the best I've ever experienced (again with subtle EQ adjustment) and extremely comfortable. I can't see me every going back to speaker-monitors and acoustic treatment. I never did get around to trying the HD600s, but I've owned 580s for many years, though I never liked to mix with them, instead I use my 580s for watching movies!

[@robinschell8767]

I had the same impression of heaviness with the LCD-X's at first, but got used to them over time. I also like the HiFiman Sundaras for comfort and when tracking.

[@EdSoloUK]

Have you tried the Neumann ndh 30? They are more accurate and detailed than the 650,s. I own both.

[@topofthemornintoya]

more bass i hope?

[@EdSoloUK]

@@topofthemornintoya They do have a bit more bass but not loads more, tho i use a Qudelix 5k DAC with it which has a great EQ whch i boost the bass with

[@antoszka]

They most definitely do not. They have muddy mids that make them useless for micing (classical) mixing and mastering, even if they have better bass extension and possibly a touch more detail (though I'd say that depends on the version of the HD6NN you compare them to).

[@APMastering]

hey ed i have your records on vinyl from back in the day. nice to hear from you!

​@@antoszkaI totally agree with you. The Neumann's sound is definitely muddy in the mid bass, and contrary to what the brands states in their advertising, it doesn't sound like their studio monitors (quite the opposite). They're well built, and that's the biggest advantage over the Sennheisers (although Neumann is owned by Sennheiser). I had the opportunity to listen to them with the Neumann audio interface, and that's just how they sound.

[@szmryb]

I see ppl complaining that this was unnecessarily long but I really appreciate that you went through a lot of different headphones and gave arguments on why you don't like them, I find that super useful! I bought a pair of dt990 a while ago and after 3 days I returned them because of that resonant peak in the upper mid range! SOO painful

[@znoozaros]

dt 990 are awful people who use them just don't know better or have bad hearing

[@alfredwodtke7082]

@@znoozaros For me Trump and his MAGA-crowd are awful people. Somebody use another headphone-brand than mine - I stand it. 😎

[@znoozaros]

@ I didn't call the people awful I called the headphones awful.

[@marioahner1796]

I use DT880, when I really want to hear what I'm doing in the top end, especially with guitars.

[@toamaori]

Surprised the Neumann NDH30 didn't get a mention... I have a pair... love em to bits for working on.

[@CountJayeAndTheHardBeats]

Me too

[@jeffTcorbin81]

I bought some NDH20's last year and while I was impressed with the build quality and the head fit, the sound was imo nowhere near acceptable, especially for the hefty price tag. I tried them with a wide variety of music, including some of my own mixes and even some unmixed songs I had been working on. Pretty much material that I was very familiar with and had also been referencing on many different sytems/mediums around that time. So in a way, referencing my current projects including some recently finished mixes was almost like putting on x-ray glasses when testing out these new cans and right away I knew something was way off. I needed to dig deeper and figure out what was going on, so I took the time to A/B them with other expensive (and some cheap) closed back studio headphones and IMO the NDH20's never stood out in an impressive way, even when compared to the sub $100 headphones. The best way i can describe how they sounded was very blurred or smeared. The low end seemed hyped up (not uncommon to most closed back headphones) But not even in a pleasing way as most consumers would likely be interested in. It was too much in the boxy bass area maybe around 200-300hz. And there seemed to be a pretty big dip below that. There was some mild phase issues in the mids, (which i had never experienced with any headphones before or after. It wasn't the material causing this, it seemed to be the eq curve possibly or weird resonances or something like that. I don't know much about what would cause this exactly or even if i am describing it accurately. The only thing i knew for certain was there were some major issues that made them 100% unusable for critical listening. They also had a lot of spill, extremely noisy for closed backs, which I found concerning on its own to say the least. After extensive testing and comparing I was convinced I just had a defective pair of NDH20s because they would be completely out of their minds to try and sell what i tried out for over $100 let alone $500. Just before returning them I decided to do one more quick blind sound test using my roommate, my neighbor and a friend who came over, all i asked from them was to listen to a short clip of music with 3 different headphones and to try to rank them from highest quality to lowest quality purely based on how they sounded in their opinion. Before each test i explained it isn't a loudness test, it is a clarity or quality test. And to make sure it was an even playing field I let each tester freely adjust the headphone volume knob on my Prism Sound Lyra II interface to their liking, and explained that louder does not equal better. All 3 testers gave me the same results. 1st place was Beyerdynamic dt770 pro (250 ohm), 2nd was Sennheiser HD280 pro, and every single person thought the ndh20s sounded cheaper and picked them as their least favorite. I conducted this last test not to scientifically prove anything. It was far from scientific. But it was a last ditch effort before returning them to test my own evaluation compared to 3 average people who knew nothing of my own opinion or anything about any recent headphones purchases I had made. I just needed to make sure it wasn't my ears playing tricks on me that caused me to dislike the NDH20's so much If anyone reading this has tried these NDH20 and had a different experience I would love to hear about it. I have always viewed Neumann to be a quality company that doesn't mess around as far as their designs and builds for their legendary microphones. So i took a chance at their headphones and was really shocked at how bad they sounded. So I am, still convinced the pair I bought and took home were defective in some way internally. From the outside they looked and felt like the most amazing headphones as far as the build and materials. I haven't had the chance to have a listen to another pair since i returned them. I have heard from one person who bought them and was not happy with how they sounded. But it wasn't bad enough to return them. Which to me made it clear that I had a defective set of ndh20's. Because mine were so bad that there is no way anybody would decide to keep them based on their price alone. So please let me know if you have tried these. I am curious to hear other people's opinions. I am still in the market for some decent closed back headphones to use for tracking and possibly some very quick reference listening or mixing in a pinch. I also wanted to ask if anyone has ever had an experience with headphones where they bought a dud or defective product? It seems like it would be pretty rare. I imagine headphones (especially expensive ones) might go through more extensive QC than most products. I really have no idea and am curious if anyone else has experienced a bad set of cans like what I shared here. Thanks! (just before I hit "reply" i noticed I was replying to a post regarding the NDH30 and not the NDH20 which are what i tried. I believe they are similar except the 30s are open back and 20s are closed)

[@CountJayeAndTheHardBeats]

@@jeffTcorbin81 I have the NDH-30 and LOVE them! Never tried the 20.

[@susokraut]

look at the measured frequency response, not very accurate. Neumann makes excellent active monitors, but the headphones are far less accurate.

[@chrissssssss007]

Nuemann ndh30? Should Be included ! Much better than the 20s. I have both…

[@semyonboyk0]

Watching this video wearing HD600 lol Bought them 10 years ago, since then broke the cable 3 times, changed worn out ear pads, but the cans themselves sound amazing till this day.

[@mikafoxx2717]

The 600's are basically forever headphones. I keep them despite having fancier ones, because I know they'll last. The Sundara I think are just a little better and flatter and definitely more technical.

[@theexpatgunner]

Nice and I was watching it wearing my HD660S2 via my FIIO K19 over balanced connection.

[@mikafoxx2717]

@@theexpatgunner I've not heard the 660s2 but it's a funky in between, they get slightly recessed mids more in line with most other headphones in order to get more bass impact and treble in relativity. Plus more detail capable drivers. It's not a 600 or 650 but it's not hugely far off as most headphones are in comparison. Maybe even the Sundara would be closer to the 660s tuning wise. Idk.

[@theexpatgunner]

@@mikafoxx2717 in addition to my HD660S2 I also have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 900 Pro X and a pair of HD660S originals. I was going to sell the OG S1, but thinking maybe I should keep them. I am very keen to try the Audio-Technica ATH-R70x.

[@williambenson]

Exactly the same here! Bought them 10 years ago and was listening to this video with them 😂

[@loveandjapan]

I will be using the Sony MDR7506s for the rest of my life, flaws be damned (no EQ or correction either). I know how they sound after more than 20 years listening to them. For mixing I use them as one reference, then I switch to some 18 year old Event TR6s (nearfield, relatively low volume), and finally I take the mix to the living room where I have an audiophile setup that has been measured and tuned that I also know really well because I listen to everything on it. For one final test I listen to the mix in a 2000 Jeep Cheroke with craptastic door speakers. Works for me! Edit: I know the low end of the MDR7506 is inaccurate, so I'm not even listening for that. I use them to nail the mids, which is exactly what you said was most important in your previous video about nearfield monitors.

[@mochachaiguy]

@@loveandjapan I’ve been using the 7506’s for my sound editing and post production work for the past 29 years. Once your ears are trained on the idiosyncrasies and how things translate elsewhere, you have a solid workflow.

[@twoeggcups]

I guess, but the old Sony MDRD-77s were so much nicer, even if they were incredibly fragile. Anyone tried the Audio Technica R70x?

[@bingbong7316]

@@loveandjapan I still miss my old MDR-CD7 headphones, they were shockingly good little things.

[@allankeenmusic]

True of most headphones - get to know them and how they translate. I use the 7506s but with correction software too. I prefer mixing with them now. I know them really well and provide a consistent and completely portable mixing solution.

[@filmjazz]

@@bingbong7316 There's a fairly busted up pair on ebay right now for $850. Dayum!

[@cabebeats]

Paid course on making your own headphones when?

[@APMastering]

i think paid courses are great. you can really go into detail and produce a decent product because you are compensated for your time. people who put up loads of free content without getting paid in any way are either ego driven narcissists or hobbyists whos information is certainly not great. no, by far the best is getting info from a pro whos getting financially rewarded for making a good learning product

[@iso_brown]

@APMastering I've experienced work with hobbyists that made my work sound better than pros. The reason was that the hobbyists was 100% in the music style where the pro was more generalist.

[@veritas7010]

DMS already beat AP to the chase with that one >

[@alecgirouard1]

@APMastering that's quite the broad assumption. I'm sure there are plenty examples in history to prove you wrong.

[@APMastering]

pro means you do it as your day job not that you specialise on everything. if you sent me a very specific kind of american country album, i'd do it if you wanted me, but i'd tell you up front that's not my speciality. id hope someone absolutely obsessed with country would do a better job than me. but no hobbyists are beating me consistently in techno for example

[@drrodopszin]

I think for measuring accuracy you would need to have a set of audio listening tasks, like matching an audio signal with its EQed version or to drop in a mix of sine waves and slightly distorted version of them in random order to see if you can hear the difference and then give it some points.

[@APMastering]

yes i like these "prove it then" kinds of tests!!

[@scottlowell493]

"The more money you spend, the less accurate they are for studio use" ---AMEN!

[@ASSman864]

This^ i have a pyle speaker that comes with a microphone and everything and can be bluetooth or aux and its like the cheapest low quality speaker i have but its been named the "speaker of truth" cause i have the volume marked to stay in the same place forever and i test every mix on it to try and get it as loud as it can without crumbling as alot of my favorite tracks that i use as a reference are right at the point that would start distorting if i turned it up any further. I think everyone needs a cheap mono speaker or atleast learn how to set your device to play mono only so u dont have anything only working cause it panned enough then phase cancel out or just not sound right on mono speaker

[@ctatrains]

I didn't think any phones could surpass my HD600 and HD650s but my Audeze MM-500 retired them full stop and I never looked back.

[@APMastering]

never heard mm500

[@veritas7010]

They not that good ong

[@mikafoxx2717]

Same deal with my Sundara, especially with a little EQ. Much more detail and better tuning in either end, the 600's are quite mid focused which is the most important part to get right, but you can't really judge bass on them or sparkle up top.

[@teabreakbeats]

I use the MM-500 too. I sent them off to Sonarworks to get them measured, and mainly use the plugin to fix the small left / right imbalance

[@InFiNiGhTe]

@@mikafoxx2717 Sundara's are reaaaaaally good for the price.

[@FloodedWithGems]

Where can we hear music you've mixed and mastered?

[@bloodswarms]

I actually agree with this guy's opinion on almost everything he says regarding audio. He records his video with a potato, however, and that really causes my chi to become misaligned. It's also hilarious that he talks about expensive monitors and headphones and records himself speaking with a crappy iPhone microphone. :)

[@bennyceca]

I think that's a microphone he built made to look like an iPhone. 😝

[@j-station]

sounds fine though

[@APMastering]

i totally understand the irony of a mastering engineer with a potato. higher quality video set up coming soon!!

[@mikeiver]

The MEMS devices in most phones now days are fairly high performance compared to the typical electrete mic most would unknowingly use. There are a surprising number of mics out there that, despite the fancy packaging and the lofty performance claims are nothing more than a basic electrete element at the front.

[@AngrocSound]

Personally I like that old school KZbin vibe. Makes it feel more sincere somehow, like from back in the day before sponsors and all that.

[@CountJayeAndTheHardBeats]

Don't like the Neumanns?

[@LOLCoolJ]

This is good advice and the Sennheiser 600 series is a good recommendation. However... While I agree that EQ can't turn bad headphones into great ones, EQ can be used to bring very good headphone much closer to perfect tonal balance. Given that fact I feel that the low end extension, general responsiveness, and low distortion of planar magnetic headphones, namely the Hifiman Sundara, after some corrective EQ, results in the best affordable solution for people looking to mix on headphones. Although it does require a decent headphone amplifier to sound its best. (assuming proper fit, of course)

[@zonofono]

@@LOLCoolJ Exactly what I am doing and I’m very content. What wasn’t really mentioned in the video is the importance of comfort, if you’re going to wear headphones eight plus hours straight. The Sundara are very comfortable for me.

[@mattytwohatsmusic]

The HD560s seem to come pretty close for under half the price. Have you tried those. Great vid! I guessed your pick last week.

[@svenschwingel8632]

I have bought a pair of HD600s back in 2002. They have yet to let me down. I recently added a pair of Beyerdynamic DT-1990 Pro to my collection. Apart from the typical "Beyer Peak" at 7 kHz, they are simply amazing with the "balanced" pads. I use a parametric EQ (narrow Q of 10, -3 to -4 dB @ 7 kHz) and the overpresent lower highs get tamed quite a bit which enables the 1990s full potential without losing on details.

[@OldTimeRadioRemastered]

Have you tried the new Sennheiser HD 490 Pro? They are Sennheiser's open back headphones designed for mixing/mastering. I don't have them myself but they look interesting.

[@mattsmith1440]

I've tried a few pairs for mixing over the years, some expensive, some cheap. One of my favorite sets are the Superlux HD 668B. They fall in the category discussed here - over-ear, open backed. The materials are not exactly very 'lux', but they are cheap and sound reasonably accurate to my ears. They can last for years if you don't sit on them, and if you do the cost of replacement is minimal.

[@NRVE8]

Are you only going off of frequency response? I wonder if you have some placebo effect from looking at the graph vs using your ears…

[@APMastering]

no i listened to all of these in person

[@KarlAdamsAudio]

MDR-7506 works well for monitoring dialog during video recording - if I don't hear an "nasties" then it's probably a clean take, job done.

[@thevi_olin]

Hey, I have no opinion on headphones this was very informative! And I really enjoyed the more laid back presentation, nothing against the “it’s a scam” tone but this style keeps me more engaged! Have a great day!

[@APMastering]

thanks

[@muriloliro109]

I use Beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm, but this is very occasional, I prefer my monitors for mixing. For recording and live performances, I use in-ear headphones.

[@audian666]

glad to see someone mention Beyerdynamic at least! DT 700 pro X here

[@bolland83]

Love my 990's, I use them for everything. For under $200 they're hard to beat, sound great, built like a tank, and super comfortable. Also have a set of 770's if I need isolation, but TBH I find the midrange a little harsh on those, great for monitoring guitar, but not so much for general use, though with a bit of eq they smooth out pretty easily.

[@KiffRiffart]

I use the DT1990 pro. I compared them to 6 different headphones in that price range for 2 hours in the shop. Though I am more a musician than a producer, that´s my choice. They are so comfortable and the built quality is amazing. Sennheiser, Focal, Hifiman, Audio-Technica, they are all sounding good to me, but the Beyerdynamic I took home.

[@zZAPp-fi]

@@audian666 me too. I've owned a pair of SR225 from 2004/5. Really engaging for listening (vocals, guitars, strings) but not suitable for dialing eq, gain, volume ecc. of my fx and amp modeler, used when i was playing with a band, and especially not comfortable at all. So, many years ago, after a tons of searching (i've never had the chance to try and test in person for various reasons), i've decided to buy a pair of DT880 pro 250 Ohms, and, not too long after, to sell my Grado cans... (bad time, broke). I used both for several recordings and mixing (I'm no music producer, an amateur with a bit of knowledge at max) and i soon realized that recording vocals in the same space, playing some backing track with a semi open headphones wasn't a great idea. Apart from that, i find the DT880 enough neutral (no surprise here) and better suitable for my needs when "producing" in comparison with the SR225.

[@kiiro772]

@@KiffRiffart I have 1990 and HD600. The 600 is more neutral, and super versatile, everything sounds good with them, but the 1990 Pro are soooo much more fun to listen to. The treble peak though, while it doesn’t bother me, it really emphasises “badly” mastered albums.

[@HiFiASMR]

I'll make a video response to this. Dt990 measure flat with worn pads and the bass distortion is not audible at listening levels.

[@APMastering]

link me your response. bear in mind that headphones which measure flat sound inaccurate. cans which hit the harman curve nicely sound great but even that curve is very subjectively arrived at. my benchmark for this video was my old mastering rig with lipinski speakers using a crookwood c3 to switch between headphones and speakers

[@HiFiASMR]

@APMastering kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4Wano2Xocx7jpY lol

[@APMastering]

OK I watched and left this comment: "propaganda that he found online". Starting the video with a complete misrepresentation? Not a good start. I personally listened to EVERY headphone in the video myself, bought, returned or sold some of them and I have owned more than I mention in this video. I am NOT going off of these charts at all. I don't look at headphone charts, they were just interesting overlays for my video to keep the visuals interesting. In terms of the targets, contrary to what you say, there is no "objective" target because all the targets are based on subjective tests and agreement/disagreement within certain communities. Also the headphone measurements themselves which you are obsessing over should all be taken with a grain of salt. It depends on the positioning of the headphones, the dummy head, the mics and the test audio, then you have smoothing, averaging, lots of subjectivity and variation in the database of measurements, to the point where they are almost useless. So not only is your video essentially a strawman of what I'm saying in my video, you are the one just going off charts it seems and the only way to really form a decent opinion is to sit in a mastering studio which different headphones and compare them to the mains, which I have done many times and it seems you haven't.

[@APMastering]

that study at the end of your video though is good, I might use that in a video

[@HiFiASMR]

@APMastering you remind me of @sharuraudio lol

[@TomSherwood-z5l]

People come here for affirmation that their expensive phones are the best or to complain their expensive phones are not the best.

[@slatanek]

Shattered dreams...

[@CB-68-westcreations]

Of course they do. Nobody wants to hear that they spent a fortune on something that isn't giving them what they thought they would get. It's kinda like the guy with no arms who bought a Ferrari. He's not gonna get to drive it, but he has that feel good thing that says he owns one. The average user just doesn't need headphones in this class. They really wouldn't know what to do with them.

[@D1N02]

​@@TomSherwood-z5l the best headphones are the ones you Enjoy most. Nobody can tell me which one I enjoy most.

[@jkoo6528]

@@D1N02 truth

[@twoeggcups]

@@TomSherwood-z5l Cheap or expensive, they’re still not stereo.

[@dhpbear2]

9:00 - I wonder what Andrew's recordings sound like! Is there *dips* around 4KHz? :)

[@APMastering]

a good mastering engineer would sort that out so it's hard to understand the effect

[@dhpbear2]

@APMastering I'm guessing Andrew would 'EQ out' that 4KHz peak?

[@adamgreenhill110]

Not many headphones are good for mixing. But LCD-5 (with Sonarworks plugin) has been perfect for me. The most accurate I've ever heard.

[@APMastering]

sonarworks uses hd650 as their benchmark

[@jomwatches]

What do you think about the 560s?

[@Olyrous]

What about the Beyerdynamic DT 880 and 990? I was surprised they were not mentioned at all.

[@Seki09]

4:08 They're in the excluded category of cheap made in China headphones under 300$. You can see them in the list that scrolls in the video.

[@marioahner1796]

Funny, they are made in Germany. And DT880 are great.

[@markphilpot8734]

I have a pair of HD600 headphones, I still can’t believe the Dan Clark Expanse would not be considered. I would like to hear your opinion of them if you have heard them.

[@faaip0de0oaid]

Not that you need them, but you should try the Avantones Planars, one of the most neutral planar magnetic headphones out there, also not expensive for a planar headphone. Edit: I have an HD6xx and the Avantone has a similar fequency response, but with all the benefits of the planar driver.

[@APMastering]

that interests me a lot

[@snubdawg1386]

thx, will check them out

[@johannes.nieuwenhuizen]

In the market for the Avantones too, currently on HD650s... Any quality issues with the Planars?

[@solo943]

The only downside of it are the pads once they broken no replacment available. With eq they are very good ones i love them

[@dudemanismadcool]

this also interests me

[@vladtudose5677]

what do you think about MM-100 and MM-500? are they also position dependent? are the HD660s not as position-dependent?

[@erikbabineau4509]

I went out and bought over 20 headphones to test for mixing...the ones that were the most comfortable and got the best results were the Shure SRH1840 Headphones..test them out when you get a chance they are amazing! I had the Sennhesser 650 even though they are great for listening and relaxing they were a bit too "veiled" for mixing...the mixes would come back too bright.

[@APMastering]

@@erikbabineau4509 maybe with the 650 but not 660S or 600. i bought the shure ones but didn't like them at all

[@midorihibiki]

I think the Sennheiser HD600 and 650 veiled signature depends on what you pair with. I pair them with R2R dac and they do sound veiled but with Weiss 205 a delta sigma dac and Violectric V550 non pro version and with electrical treatment around the audio equipments they do not sound veiled anymore except the HD650 with just a little veiled I think.

[@Breaker70]

Hi, have you tested the HD490 yet? Would be interested in your take on them. Cheers.

[@teashea1]

For mixing and mastering, I choose the Neumann NDH 30 headphones of the 20 different headphones I have, including Focal, Audeeze, Sennheiser, BD, etc.

[@halpearson4226]

Yeah, they take some getting used to if moving from headphones based on the Harmon curve, but they are the best I've tried for mixing, too. Ollo S5X with thin t-shirt material tucked into the earpads are a good 'second opinion' that isn't jarring if you're used to the Neumanns.

[@kevinmccann9279]

Are Grado still making headphones? I have a pair (I forget the model) which I like except the cord is thick and stiff.

[@spdcrzy]

@@kevinmccann9279 yes they are. And they continue to be handmade.

[@macdesi4321]

Slate VSX is a different animal, you cannot simply put them on and judge them. It took me about a week for my ears to adapt to them because in the beginning, all I heard was Phase. Like a good room, these also have their own place for learning the soundstage. For me, I never heard anything like these. You feel like the bass is around you and not only in your head.

[@aether3395]

he missed the point of them. it's not for emulate higher quality headphone that people buy them. it's for crossfade

[@ASSman864]

​@@aether3395Never meant to be so cold??

[@hearmenow909]

@@aether3395 Don't you mean crosstalk?

[@aether3395]

@@hearmenow909 yes , I dont know why I've write crossfade

[@MikeSadlerAU]

I suspect y'all are talking about the 'phantom image' that a stereo speaker set gives you in the centre of the sound stage. I totally agree. I use VSX for mixing now; and I'm not comparing them to the experience of mixing in the studio with ATC's of a few months back, but mixing on old (big) passive JBL's or Tannoys and even NS10's (with tissue paper) for near field (which I loathed). That JBL sound was something I got used to, and learnt to love, because it was consistent when I played my reference mixes on them. That's where I am with VSX... because of the phantom centre imaging and the detail that's at least as good as all the JBL's (referred to by competitors as Junk, But Loud, back in. the day) I grew accustomed to (we were coming off analog 8-16 track tape remember!) I can 'trust' VSX to mix on, especially with probably 1000 hours and counting of listening to reference mixes, some of which was performed, engineered, recorded, mixed or produced by me. I'll also add that I have NEVER 'mastered' my own tracks, and in fact use specific engineers for specific genres, often based on their discography, as heard by me, in a studio, now via VSX, as a reference. Mastering and engineering/mixing (and producing) are different beasts, and the most renowned exponents of each are specialists. Even Andy Wallace DOESN'T MASTER HIS OWN STUFF. A mastering suite and a recording/mixing studio are different beasts too, and I'd never suggest mastering via VSX, UNLESS THAT'S ALL I HAD. But, I'd much prefer to record as dry as possible, 'mix into my console/busses' to get as close as possible, then let a mastering engineer add the fairy dust on top... with the target media/audience in mind as well.

[@federicobersano]

What about the HD490 ? Can you try a pair of those to compare to the 6xx family, or have you been banned from every shop for returning too many headphones?

[@APMastering]

lol almost. I just have no interest right now in doing that as Im not a headphone review channel. maybe at some point I will listen or buy more and then make a video

[@TheGarageRecordingSC]

I have to be honest, regardless of its relatively cheap quality, the VSX headphones with the software is something different. I don’t even care what it is, but I’m telling you it works for me. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@APMastering]

glad you get use from it

[@cmatte82]

Completely agree. I tried all kinds of headphones, plugins, and even some hardware to try and mix with headphones. I just couldn’t do it. To the point I almost didn’t try vsx. But I did. And it works. I can’t explain it. But my mixes finally started translating like I wanted.

[@Il-Cane]

@APMastering i suggest ya Koss porta pro...... translate perfect on monitors, are the only headphones that work for me and translate for my genelec 1032... they are not perfect, i changed 3 pair in one year beacuse the bass sometimes explode the driver but they translate like 80%

[@NRVE8]

The software works on any pair of headphones…

[@Jrel]

@@NRVE8 It can, but you won't be hearing the audio correctly.

[@soundssimple1]

Do these choices change when recording and mixing from an old analog desk to a modern digital desk or laptop ?

[@MikeTaffet]

Pro Tip: Pair the Sennheiser HD600/660s with the ZMF pads. Match made in heaven

[@GillesADM]

Thanks for the info. Can you elaborate a bit? What ZMF pads do you use with your Sennheiser? I have an HD650, I mix with it, and what you say caught my attention. I've looked at the ZMF site, but I'm a bit lost by the novelty and variety of choice… Thanks!

[@MikeTaffet]

@@GillesADM they make pads specifically for the HD-600/650/660/6xx series headphones. You can find comparisons between the different materials in some KZbin videos if you search.

[@GillesADM]

@@MikeTaffet Thank you, yes I've been better informed since then, but thanks for the reply. And as I mentioned in the thread below, I'm very sorry that ZMF don't make pads for the 560 Ovation II (as the 560 + recent, which are different and don't have the same pad shape), which is my other reference headphone, even if I use it more rarely, it's irreplaceable for me.

[@thinkbeforeyoupost9766]

Which ZMF? There are a few versions of them for 600 series

[@MikeTaffet]

@@thinkbeforeyoupost9766as I mentioned, people have made KZbin videos covering the differences

[@keiz_]

For those interested in the HD650, go with the HD6xx instead. They're the same thing, just a collab version with Massdrop, and they're $200 instead. Incredible headphones for the price.

[@MrACangusyoungDC]

@keiz_ also there's lots of disappointed casual listeners who doesn't like the low-end and didn't return and sell 2nd hand, practically brand new ones. I bought HD600s for something like 180EUR/USD.

[@ROCKSTAR3291]

I once commented on a HD6xx video saying they're the same as the HD650, the PR guy from Sennheiser (Eric Palonen) replied that they're not the same, then he deleted the comment. Don't know what he meant by that.

[@flame.8308]

@@ROCKSTAR3291 I mean they have a different paint job but thats about it

[@howmit6361]

I recommend you give Verum headphones a try. I recently received the Verum 1 and haven't reached for my 6XX since. They may be a bit euphonic in the bass, but that can be tamed with some judicious eq. Maybe knocked down a db or two. They are very engaging and I have spent hours rediscovering music. I also have Focal Elex, which I would describe as 600's that you can crank, which could be important if you needed some SPL without the sound falling apart.

[@SequenzeASM]

How about Austrian audio Hi-X series? Sound is very clear with low distortion and good dynamic range for studio monitoring on my oppinion.

[@PrincipalAudio]

Do you happen to have any knowledge on how to measure headphones "accurately"? I'd be curious how people measure them, because there are so many failure points when it comes to measuring small drivers that output low levels of sound, especially when you have to take into consideration the coupling to someone's head (everyone's head and auditory physiology is different - shape, size, resonances, etc.) Thanks for the vid. Really interesting.

[@ZiggyMontezuma]

What about the new Sennheiser HD 490 ?

[@bassyey]

Yeah, he should've checked it out if it passes. Senn markets it as such.

[@676bun]

yes, these are getting top rating now and their in the same price range of the 650.

[@alseick]

expensive, overrated, not pro at all, frequency response is all over the place Generally it is clearer than HD600 but at the same time it can be also muddier. For example bass extends further, drums sound more natural, deeper, but less lively, less punchy than on HD600. For example acoustic guitar bass strings sound thick/middy as they should but they lack the sound of fresh strings or natural guitar string noise, on HD600 the guitar sounds brighter, very close to original and HD560s first version brings out the fresh strings "zing" too much. (but it is revealing) female vocals, singers like Adele sound sharp or almost distorted sometimes, but it is only certain range of frequency, other singers may actually sound darker than on 600 Improved 490 PRO would be great, but currently it is a weird headphone HD600 is not perfect either, for electronic music it sucks as it everything is "blurred", 490 is much tigher/clearer-thick sounding, while 560s is tight-thin but I understand if you do a mix on 600 then it will sound exciting on everything else lol So the advantages are: big sound stage, imho bigger than 560s, very nice low-mids, detailed disadvantages: too heavy/thick sounding, less punch/impact than 560s/490, mids/treble are weird, can be both darker and brighter depending on a song... simply less predictable I would say this, frequency wise 490 are closer to 600 compared to 560s, they are full/thick sounding. But despite of their brightness, I found 560s to be more consistent and more natural sounding (natural, but thin/bright, it is hard to explain). So for some vocals HD600/560s sounded fine (560s thin/bright) but 490 started to sound too textured/harsh. But it also depends what one needs, do you need something which is revealing some small details or problems quickly etc or something which sounds closer to other systems to see how it may translate.

[@chungang7037]

@@alseick that is the thing, people have argued that the timbre of instruments on the HD600 in the midrange has not really been matched

[@alseick]

@@chungang7037 and I agree, even though have returned HD600 because I prefer tighter sounding headphones like 560s or 490, and I am not a pro. But it is my preference and 600 was the closest to real life in terms of mids, except it is too smooth for my needs, but the timbre/overall details/texture is just right for "natural" music. so +1 for HD600 😄

[@MrStax2010]

I use Ollo S4X I find them great for mixing vocals. Would love to know your opinion on them.

[@RadekPilich]

Audio-Technica ATH-R70X in case you prefer warmer character than Sennheiser offers

[@theexpatgunner]

I want to pick up a pair of these.

[@fattohead]

I've used them for 3 years and switched to LCD-X (2021 ver.) the bass response and detail, stage and headroom is better on LCD-X. Of course it's up to you to decide investing 3 times more for Audeze.

[@ubesaaa]

@@RadekPilich Or the Hd6XX, which is a bit warmer than the 650 too

[@Simeon_Harris]

isn't there there's another route - get a pair that are super comfortable and have a very low harmonic distortion and then eq them to the harman curve?

[@APMastering]

eq isn't a magic cure

[@Simeon_Harris]

@APMastering please explain why not. all of your criticisms of the headphones in the video relate to not liking their eq. if there's a nasty spike in the upper midrange, or not enough low end extension, then using corrective eq will solve those problems, yes? i know there are other factors - comfort, harmonic distortion, transient response, soundstage etc, but if a headphone has problems with eq and you can fix it, then it solves the problem, does it not?

[@APMastering]

@ eqing a peak in the highs down 10db will negatively impact transient response. eqing more base increases thd etc

[@slatanek]

If you're on a tight budget the HD560s might cut it.

[@keef69]

I have my HD570 since probably ... 20 years ? Love them simply to listen to music, don't know how they compare to these pro HD600 headphones ...

[@djkillachris]

Wonder how much things would be if we couldn’t return them?

[@APMastering]

@@djkillachris the price would have to come down i guess

[@Dr.reese_UBR3]

What do you think about the new sennheiser HD 490 pro?

[@APMastering]

@@Dr.reese_UBR3 need to hear them

[@Dr.reese_UBR3]

@ they were named headphone of the year by a few people. I believe they are even better than the hd660s since it has the two different pads that change the response. Definitely test them somewhere!

[@SnirHassidim]

Have you tried the V-MODA M-200? Non-ANC of course

[@lilkrag17]

9:07 Andrew ditched his Sonys for Audeze’s. Edit : I think he spoke on their forum that he mainly uses them for referencing

[@BunnyslippersEUC]

@@lilkrag17 Sony bought Audeze. It's a shame, I think. Although I do not like how Audeze headphones sound for fun.

[@MichaelFromDublin]

What about zmf atrium open and zmf caldera open?

[@fredmcveigh9877]

Fantastic. I am a very amateur music maker and I have a set of beyerdynamic dt 770 pro headphones which I love. They are closed back and the reason I like them is because I can record with my mic and not pick up any leakage. Obviously in a professional situation where you are just monitoring the artist open backs are fine if you are isolated but if like me you are the artist,the sound engineer, the tea boy and all the other jobs then Closed back are what I need. Good video and it's nice to hear an honest set of opinions that aren't influenced by sponsored products.

[@allenlocke1935]

I love these for tracking. I prefer to mix on studio monitors but occasionally will mix on these or the 1990 Pros if I'm not too lazy to reach for them on those late night sessions. I even have the Amiron wireless ones for pleasure listening. I love the beyerdynamic's, I a/b these against everything the store had, it was extensive. The DT 770 Pro's just sounded so much better than anything else that was there and were so comfortable. Made in Germany. It was a no brainer. Of course I'm not doing any mastering on a professional levels...so that being said:)

[@bolland83]

The 770's are a little hot in the midrange for me. Great for monitoring electric guitar but for general use, listening or anything else I prefer the 990's.

[@VultureCulture]

Such a great video! I'm in a studio environment where I need to record my voice while monitoring - making open back headphones out of the question. I'd love to see a version of this video with closed back headphones! Again, phenomenal video 👏

[@biomechanoid]

Headphones are mostly the thing of personal preference due to the fact that everyone’s ears is unique, but 600 series are really the golden standard for any serious audio work. For me personally, Audeze MM-500 sounded like slightly better and clearer version of HD650, so I mostly switched to them after a while, but still keep 650s for occasional checking.

[@m-vendor]

Would you recommend spirit torino as a mixing headphones?

[@mythicalawokenhen]

Have you tried the OLLO audio S4x? Been very happy with mine over the years and their customer service is excellent 👌 Great channel btw 👍

[@xamanist-music]

Love them, saved my mixes

[@keiz_]

Have a pair of used the 1.0 S4x I picked up recently and love them to bit for mixing/mastering. Just had to replace the pads, and they've been fantastic.

[@Shelldamage]

Really love my Denon AH-D5000, wonder what that sound says to you?!

[@dreamline2007]

Been getting phenomenal mixes on my MDR-7506s and the DT770’s; I’d argue that skill level, experience and understanding referencing makes the difference when it comes to mixing. HD600’s are fine also. It’s not for me but I know guys who have placements mixing on beats headphones.

[@audiobunny1767]

DT770's are awesome, such a bargain

[@theostragonidis7548]

You can mix on anything if you get to know your speakers/headphones but the DT770 are not intended for mixing, they are closed-back design and you can read why closed-back design headphones are not very good for mixing and are intended for tracking. Care to post some of your "phenomenal mixes"?

[@larrydrozd2740]

We always made a cassette copy and would listen in our cars. If it sounds good in that environment, then its good.

[@sillyness3456]

The HD600 is on my bucket list for years at this point. Made the mistake of buying Focal like 10 years ago, impossible to sell, as the earpads are not replaceable and wore out in months.

[@OCHERii]

which focals ?

[@sillyness3456]

@@OCHERii Spirit Pro

[@sendmemoreshit6571]

@@sillyness3456 These are the best sounding headphones ever. Build quality is the worst ever unfortunately. I bought a bunch of second hand Spirit Onw S ti rebuild the pro over and over agian, still own them ... broken ...and still in love haha

[@hellyeah_tv]

nothing about Neumann NDH-30. did you heard about Audeze MM-100, MM-500? I’m disappointed. Sennheiser HD490 Pro could be great instrument for mixing proposes and maybe mastering but depends..

[@DderronB27]

I own the HD650's and the Slate VSX. I also own a Motu Ultralite Mk5 interface (very nice DAC built-in) with a Neve RNHP amplifier. I personally prefer the VSX over the 650's due to better monitoring for the low-end as well as soundstage. I feel you are heavily oversimplifying what the VSX software is trying to accomplish. To be honest, the headphone emulations are used the least for me, if at all, in comparison to the room emulations. Saying that it's just EQ and filtering is simply not true. I get everybody has their preferences and opinions and you are entitled to yours, but this video came across as biased. This isn't an insult, but usually people tend to side with what they've heavily invested money into (especially if they're pricey) and given you have a lot of high-profile headphone options at your disposal, you're looking at the lesser as crap because they simply aren't the high-profile ones you now possess. Mixing in the VSX gave me better results and translation to other speakers, including my primary & secondary monitors in my studio. I will say that the marketing is a bit much, absolutely, but they definitely do a damn good job fulfilling their fundamental claims. With the psychoacoustics for room emulations, low-end production, and arguably the most important one, CROSSFEED the benefits justify the purchase. Now the VSX isn't the only way to accomplish this, but if you want to prevent yourself from buying several different software to work in conjunction with each other just to get the same result, then getting this instead makes sense. That being said, the 650's are absolutely awesome headphones, but they still have drawbacks that hurt my mix decisions like low-end judgement and signal proximity (and yes I've had them for a while and have grown accustomed to their sound). There are definitely crappy headphones out there, headphones built for specific duties in a session, all-around headphones, etc. but I feel you could be less biased and more informative on this subject given your work experience. It's cool if certain ones aren't for you, but let's be fair in the comparisons here as well. I'm glad you're spreading knowledge on YT though, keep it going! No disrespect here. Just saying. Side Note For All Who've Read This Far: If you can't afford VSX or Planars, get you a highly recommended set of reference headphones within your budget that work best for the task you'll be using them for (try to go for some that fit best with your primary genre and/or sonics, if possible). Invest in the Realphones 2.0 and/or CanOpener plugins to help with crossfeed. Research the Harman Curve and apply it when using the headphones that you have ('Chris Selim - Mixdown Online' has a great video on YT that'll show you how to do so called "I Will Never Mix on Headphones Without THIS, and it's FREE"). Make the best of what you have until you can afford better. Also, reference your mixes/masters with professional ones as much as needed to try to get as great a sound as you can with the headphones you have. Keep working and keep pushing out high-quality audio!

[@THEIRONWEEDPROJECT]

Just seeing all the VSX comments lets you know this guy didn't do any research and is just a industry gear snob He'll be slagging of Behringer for their emulations soon His NS10 love should have been warning enough Adams Dynaudio Genelec Kali D&D all using software technology within their speakers and all world class audio companies

[@psykobay]

I had the Beyerdynamics dt770 Pro 250 Ohm for 6 years. Bought the NDH30 lately. The NDH30s sounded weird the first few days and a bit darker (coming from what I later understood to be that the 770s had exaggerated exhausting highs) but after a couple of weeks, and after sitting with the new sound and digesting it through listening to my old mixes and various other songs of different genres, I have to say it’s a night and day difference. Every mix I do now translates so well everywhere and I am very confident about the results without even checking on monitors sometimes. I have tried other headphones also in the past the NDH30s are just superior to anything I have ever tried. (I have been a mixing engineer for over 8 years). It’s ridiculous that this video doesn’t even mention the NDH30s.

[@Drrolfski]

If you're so critical about neutral sounding, then I'm actually surprised you did like the Beyerdynamic 1990 which is notorious for its brightness. In that case, you might want to check the more recent Beyerdynamic 900 Pro X, clearly designed to be more neutral-sounding. I found them spectacularly unspectacular sounding and you don't need an amp that can bring all kinds of coloring. Which surprises me you didn't mention as a potential issue as I have seen videos of many high-end audio interfaces falling through the ice when it comes to driving high-impedance headphones. This year's Sennheiser 490 Pro you might like as well btw. People are raving about its build quality and it seems to sound fairly close to the 600 series.

[@Manbiteszombie]

you need to try the Neumann NDH30 I've been using the HD600's for years when one of the drivers broke thought I'd check out the NDH30 for a change and haven't looked back since they are far superior to the HD600's

[@Skrenja]

I love my AKG K712 pros. While they might not be "accurate" they are great for mixing.

[@getfitter928]

I have had the Q701 for over 10 years. I don't mix I just use them at home for general use. I think they would make for good mixing. I have no reason to buy another pair of headphones. some people don't like the way they sit on your head and they are not position friendly.

[@thiscorrosion900]

Then why the fuck does AKG market all those headphones as Studio Reference cans?

[@hugosequeira2997]

@@getfitter928 Got one of those too...Q701 by Quincy Jones...Best headphones i ever had...bought it at almost 50% off from Amazon... 😁

[@Arcessitor]

I used to have K701s, I loved them for listening. But the cable broke. Now I have 712s and though they're great for listening they just don't sound as spacious. I cry every time.

[@thiscorrosion900]

@@Arcessitor Why AKG couldn't figure out how to make those with detachable replaceable cable inputs I dunno. For what they are intended for, they really should've done.

[@halloola3636]

How about Beyerdynamic DT990?

[@CammyFi]

Fine with worn pads

[@SimonBlandford]

I have some Beyer Dynamic DT-880s I've had since the 1980s. I have no idea how accurate they are but I do know that when I have used them for mixing I can trust them. I use other headphones for casual listening because they sound nicer, but the DT-880s never make anything sound special that isn't.

[@EversonBernardes]

Knowing your monitoring well is more useful than having absolutely flat monitoring, IMO.

[@SamHocking]

Sticking with exactly same model through your career is the best headphone decision because your brain will know how every amazing music sounds and every bit of future music you listen to should sound.

[@wckoek]

Yeah but they are all open back that leak sounds. For tracking, can't there be closed back that is "better"? Or IEM is the way to go.

[@Zarraman]

I love my HD600. It improved my mixings years ago when I bought it.

[@thiscorrosion900]

What about the workhorse Fostex RP series of planar headphones? I have the RP40s semi open backs, and they are damned good monitor headphones. I was disappointed with them for "pleasure" listening with rock music, since they're so accurate they didn't have much bass or treble emphasis. I think they would be ideal for mixing or monitoring. They're anything but bass heavy or exaggerated. I also was under the impression that those Fostex were designed for studio use first and foremost?

[@pyratellamarecordingstudio1062]

I hate mixing on all headphones excepte slate vsx. The modeling of high end mixing rooms usingbinaurial technology is amazing. However you can’t just tr6 them for a day and heard them correctly. It takes a good week of use before your brain learns how to process everyth8ng and it all of a sudden becomes clear. Ther wise I hate mixing on an6 headphones, even the really good 9nes. They all suck.

[@APMastering]

using anything for a solid week will get you familiar enough with them to mix

[@pyratellamarecordingstudio1062]

@APMastering true. But getting used to binaural processing is much different than getting used to new speakers or headphones. It sounds phasey for a long time and then suddenly disappears. The room simulations in vsx are amazing, and relatively flat. I don’t use the headphone simulations at all.

[@gristforthemill]

​@@pyratellamarecordingstudio1062 i was told by a friend, who is far more knowledgeable than myself about these things, that you should mix primarily in one of the two linear phase modes, and then check your mixes using the rooms. Makes a world of difference. Try it out. Definitely also make sure you've listened to lots of music you're intimately familiar with on them, so you get a real feel for each of the modules.

[@gristforthemill]

​@APMasteringYou should hear the mixes I used to get with my old free ninety free altec Lansing desktop speakers. Used them for a couple years out of shear necessity. 😅

[@xamanist-music]

Thanks for the explanations! Try the Ollo's S4X or the newer version when you can, they were gamechanging for my productions without a treated room

[@ShawnSommer]

Dang. The good news/bad news that the pick is what I already use. Ok, no magic “get better solution” to purchase. Just keep developing and get back to work.

[@djtukadestroyer]

it isn't more important to be used to the monitoring system you have instead of trying to find the flatest one? If you know how good mixes sound in your system that's good enough, right?

[@TimPower1]

I use Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro with frequency correction (eq) and crossfeed (CanOpener). Works well for me.

[@MrXikwriNeyrra]

@@TimPower1 me too. Not using correction just references. I'm checking air windows's new cans . Nice bleeding/ambience thing. Makes the mono really in the center of your face. not forehead

[@TimPower1]

@@MrXikwriNeyrra I didn't know cans from air windows yet. Will try it out, thanks!

[@kadiummusic]

@@TimPower1 Me too, run them through Realphones on optimised settings. Great for referencing. 😎

[@Trance88]

Dang! I honestly was not expecting a line of headphones that came out in the late 90's to be the most accurate for studio use. I've gotta get me a set!

[@THEIRONWEEDPROJECT]

They aren't he's talking about old technology and yes Senn 650s are good but technology has moved on now especially when it comes to VSX Unfortunately because VSX aren't £3,000 and are actually affordable he's done that thing because it's cheap it can't be any good.

[@AdrianLearningJazzPiano]

I spent so many thousands on headphones looking for holographic effects, accuracy, and so on. Not mentioning amplifiers. Never had time to listen to music. Sold all that crap and bought cheap DT770 Pro. Now I actually have time to listen to music and not cables and "accuracies"... It's a whole snake oil industry...

[@brin57]

Nailed it

[@slatanek]

I have a HD560s for when I'm dabbling with music making (they are very accurate for a low price) and a Philips X2HR for movies/gaming/music listening (good bass for open back) and a pair of HD25 as closed back pair. All of them together costed me around €330. I feel like I'm set. Value/money ratio is what counts for - paying €80 for the X2HR was like winning lottery.

[@BeachClubRecordings]

Right!

[@CammyFi]

It only takes one glance at that stuff to know it's snake oil fairy dust.

[@bflmpsvz870]

What do you think about IE600? Sennheiser claims they are made for EQing.

[@TheProgGuy]

You need to try the Audio Technica ATH-R70x's. They're the "alternative" to the HD600's. Personally, they have sat on my head for hours on end and they're incredibly light and the "headband" (or lack thereof) is fantastic for any shaped cranium. I've used them for 2.5 years now and they're fantastic, even great for FPS gaming as the imaging is incredibly detailed.

[@NaticusFetch51]

ATH-ad1000 /1000x/2000/2000x are much better.

[@garymalone547]

R70x are fantastic. Really only missing the last gasp of resolution and dynamics.

[@susokraut]

Interesting video. You are absolutely right in saying that most headphones do not sound accurate. And the HD6xx series from Sennheiser is really a hallmark for good sound, especially in the midrange. But, as you said, it has weak bass and also quite high distortion there. But generally asked, why not use EQ? It will improve every headphone.

[@BojanBojovic]

Thanks, it was the main problem of mine for years. I solved it with the AudioTechnica R70X. While not perfect, it is practically a little bit better version of the HD6XX series. Please listen to those, only 2 or 3 EQ beans for a perfect Harman curve.

[@davidasher22]

@@BojanBojovic R70Xs are what I use. They sounded good out of the box. But i ended up needing to replace the pads a few years back and for fun I picked up these extra deep, aerated pads. And man did that improve the sound! So now I try and mod all my headphones to some extent. But nothing has worked as well as those replacement pads for R70Xs.

[@Hectagonist]

Agreed, I also chose the R70X over the HD6XX series for mixing. I find they have much more accurate transient detail which is important to me.

[@stevengagnon4777]

​@@davidasher22any recommendations? I use ATH M-50X's for just listening. I found them to be pretty good...but lacking some bass. I suspect the bass is the area of improvement.

[@BojanBojovic]

@ Replacing the pads is the same as replacing the headphones, this is how much the sound changes. I would not do it because there is no clear way to measure the headphones and compensate with the EQ, while choosing blindly some pads or testing some of them to see which one work the best is not a real solution either. I purchased the new original pads, and still use the EQ to fix the issues, for now it seems like a good solution, but I hope someone will come out with some great Harman curve headphones.

[@JoergPelzer]

I was yesterday in a Hifi Studio with my HD600 and tried Stax 9000, Hifiman Susvara and went home... with my HD600... happy :-)

[@paperclipsquash]

12 minutes into a 16 minute video and I'm still waiting for him to stop telling me what he doesn't recommend.

[@watchman316ly]

@paperclipsquash yeah...I'm like, "What the heck, what would satisfy your hearing, dude!!!"

[@gaborb6577]

Blame it on youtube monetization rules. Anyway, he gave a great overview about the whole cathegory.

[@slatanek]

@watchman316ly Mixing is a very specific application, no wonder it demands being picky.

[@goodsound4756]

I wonder why you ignored the Sennheiser HD 490 PRO in your comparison. Would fit Studio use best.

[@IntheDAW]

I feel like just ignoring things like a harmon curve and other coreection curves is trying to pretend the whole industry hasnt already acknowledged that headphones just arent good for mixing. Thats why they made curves for them to match what people would hear using speakers. This is a argument that the wolrd already agrees on your speaker video i actually very mucn agreed on I thought it was very well discussed. And i fully agree with your little shot at vhs lol 😂

[@mikafoxx2717]

The Harman curve isn't a surrender matching curve. It's a preference curve and the bass especially is quite a ways off. A much better approximation of good flat speakers in a room would be diffuse field -1dB/Oct tilt. 10db over 20hz to 20khz. It emulates a flat speaker when put in a room which gives it a subtle tilt due to high frequency attenuation from room interactions. A small bass lift like the HE-1's have over dead flat does help emulate some of the extra physical feeling you get from speakers. And in-ears need even more bass to emulate it.

[@---pp7tq]

Also, Paul Third nicely points out that using too many bands for EQ introduces phase shifting, so use as few bands as possible.

[@APMastering]

harman isn't holy

[@g.e.miller4335]

In your opinion, which headphones should a vocalist be wearing while singing and being recorded?

[@APMastering]

dt100. but not so critical just closed back

[@g.e.miller4335]

@APMastering As always, thank you!

[@RooftopKoreansMusic]

The sony mdr-7506 with a headphone amp are what I've found works best for me, $90 headphone and a $350 tube amp powering them. I have more expensive headphones and the problem is, like he says, there's always some gimmick going on with them that is hyping or cutting something and it's very obvious. With sony mdr-7506 you can just listen to professional mixes and hear what they are supposed to sound like and go from there, those references are your target; you can tell that amazing mixes sound amazing on them; that's all you need. I guess this "professional" engineer doesn't have eyeballs or ears, but look at the HD 600 series on rtings ... all three of the headphones he recommends are well below the target in the lows and all three have a overall rating the same as sony mdr-7506s... WITH the difference being sony mdr-7506 are closer to the target in the lows... HELLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOO... do you actually work in mixing and mastering audio or do you just pretend you do on youtube?

[@HarrySinanian]

You know it, I do too, he just hears clicks in his muffs. He's holding a phone to record, claiming the output is bad, you know and I know, he wouldn't last a week in the industry.

[@chungang7037]

but wouldn't the tubeamp alter the tuning of the 7506 compared to a solid state amp or normal source?

[@RooftopKoreansMusic]

@@chungang7037 It might slightly, it has a "high" setting that exaggerates the upper mids and highs too much, so I keep it in the low setting and with the volume in the middle. It really helps me hear different frequencies very clearly. Without it a cut of 1 db in most frequencies is likely not noticeable... with the amp it is, which helps hear problem frequencies and if they have been cut effectively, same goes for if a boost is helping or hurting a mix. It's like putting a magnifying glass to audio.

[@loveandjapan]

I left my own comment praising the MDR7506s for similar reasons. To add to everything else, we know lots of engineers are also using the 7506, which makes listening to our favorite reference tracks on them even more meaningful.

[@johannes.nieuwenhuizen]

Fwiw I own both 7506s and the HD650 and get better mixes with the former.

[@chargv]

Very nice showdown! Loved some older references. I just have to mention that Dan Clark didn't buy Mr. Speakers, he is the "Mr. Speakers" himself, he just rebranded his company.

[@francesanderson]

Too long of an introduction yada yada.. skip to 8:49 and save your precious time.

[@llIjuliIll]

Did you try the AKG K612 pro? They have a reputation of being (almost boringly) accurate

[@mayzter8765]

I use Slate VSX. The ATCs in the Archon room work great for me, and my mixes translate much better. This guy is a snob...

[@djcolinturnbull]

I also have VSX. It’s the truth , they are not even close to the real headphones. But if they work for you then that’s great.

[@APMastering]

i'm not saying you aren't allowed to like them. i'm just saying they don't sound like a high end planar

[@mayzter8765]

@APMastering And I say I don't really care. Andrew Scheps has used cheap Sony headphones for decades. Maybe it's not (only) the gear but talent. You can give a monkey a Ferrari; he will drive it to the wall.

[@LaidbackSounds]

@APMastering you are missing the point completly, i have same taste as you i loveeeeeeee hd600, but slate vsx is primary goal is not to emulate and sound like other headfones it is supposed to emulate studio rooms and their accoustics, i have them as well their utility is to check mixes. It is like a reference thing more than a mixing situation for me as i prefer to mix on the hd600. What ppl forget as well when mixing with headphones is to mix with several pair, one that is efficient to locate exagareated high ( beyer), one specialized in the mkids and one for the lows, with 3 pairs of headfones you could mix a full song easily.

[@djcolinturnbull]

@@LaidbackSounds if you need 3 headphones you’re doing it wrong. One of VSX’s primary goals is to emulate headphones. The marketing even had dj swivel saying they sounded exactly like his audeze headphones. He is definitely not missing the point. You just fell for the hype. VSX are useful. But they are definitely not even close to the holy grail of headphones the marketing pushes… and they are definitely not even close to being the best headphone monitoring solution either. If you are happy with them that’s what matters.