Altair 8800 - Video #28 - High Speed Paper Tape Reader/Punch

[@LanIost]

I'm 30 and I've been programming since I was a kid, as well as having always been fascinated with old technology. Basically, I thought I'd seen most of everything. That being said, this left me with a HUGE smile on my face like nothing else has in YEARS of KZbin. THANK YOU!!!!!!

[@TrolloLogics]

You shall smile again!

[@dipl100qwer6]

it's ok, you are too young), most interesting time-80s

[@LeastUnhingedYoutubeUser]

I'm 8 and i like old things too

[@robertkopp873]

This looks like the GNT brand reader / punch, a quality product made in Denmark. I used to sell them 1980 to 1984. Extremely reliable.

[@James-l5s7k]

I love these old computers. They should be cherished and the knowledge of how to make them be kept and well documented/extended. Undergrads should have to build old computers!

[@franklincerpico7702]

Sweet man! I'd read and heard about paper tape as a medium for recording programs but I'd never seen one be loaded or saved. It's amazing to see how far technology has progressed.

[@swiftfox3461]

Can you do a video on the punching mechanism? I'm curious about how it managed to achieved these speeds, and without tearing the tape with so many horizontal holes.

[@richardhaas39]

I have never seen this particular model however in the ones I have seen the paper is fed by a ratchet pushed by a pawl one push per character--if that makes sense--so that the tape is actually stopped for the period of the punch. The period of the punch is called the "dwell time". As long as the dwell time is less than or equal to the period that the tape is immobile it will not tear. Some tape is oil impregnated. In the machines I am familiar with the tape will jam before it will tear.

[@infinitecanadian]

Just when I was ready to sit down with lunch and watch one of your videos, I find that you uploaded a new one almost exactly at that moment. Thanks!

[@leisergeist]

And now I want one of these for absolutely no valid reason haha

[@ColHogan-le5yk]

just have it punch tape and feed right into a garbage can

[@tomwilson2112]

You and me both... I have fond memories of playing with 8085 project boards and teletypes back in the early 80s. Just for fun, I recently ordered an Altair-Dunio. It's about the closest thing I'll find to a legit Altair this side of 1975. :)

[@MisterHunterRow]

LeiserGeist same...

[@jephthanarjoon4741]

Me to

[@Big_Tex]

That's a brother from another mother, I tell ya what

[@arock155]

Thanks for your videos, sir. Seeing how these early computers were operated really helped me to gain a better understanding of how computers work. The Altair is a beautiful machine with great historical significance as well. Keep up the good work!

[@izools]

Excellent video. Excellent showcase of an excellent piece of hardware. But most of all... Excellent voice. Anyone else think it's a cross between Mr Garisson and Hank Hill? Superb 👌

[@ComputerHistoryArchivesProject]

Excellent video! Your explanations are super clear and the hardware is fun to watch. Very informative. Thanks for sharing this vintage tech demo! ~ Victor, CHAP

[@MrKylePopovich]

BLAZING FAST!!! Thahah this is a great video, thank you. 8K basic in 20 seconds from 15 minutes on a teletype? insane. and 8:20 MY JAW DROPPED, this much have been and felt like MAGIC in 1975, love this moment of saving and printing out a new version of the CHASE program.

[@rcgldr]

I recall a faster still photo tape reader for the HP 2100 series of mini computers (this was back in 1973), it read at 600 characters per second, and the paper tape shot out fast enough to end up landing about 2 to 3 feet away from the reader in a big pile. We had high speed hand held "rewinders" to rewind the paper tape. The ones from HP were expensive, and one of the shop guys made a rewinder spool that would attach to a hand held drill as a "cheap" alternative. The high speed paper tape punch would punch paper tape at 400 characters per second or mylar tape at 100 characters per second. It was noisy enough that you either wore protective ear phones or walked out of the room. One of the advantages of fast paper tape readers was the sprocket holes in the paper tape could be used for timing (unlike fast card readers which needed to be more precise), so the speed didn't need to be that precise.

[@xdxfxzx]

I'm so glad you made these videos, a whole new generation of computer users can now see what it used to be like! I'm so jealous and I would cream my pants to get a chance to play with this machine. Unfortunately even at 30 years old i am too young to have any fond and nostalgic memories of using a beast like this.

[@GlennHamblin]

I'm 61. Started using paper tape to create and run part-programs on an NC (not CNC) PCB drill via a Teletype model 33 at 17. I have a high speed tape reader, but I'd love to get my hands on a punch! Thanks for the Video.

[@mikehibbett3301]

Thank you for keeping this technology alive

[@Nf6xNet]

Nice video! That is the same model of paper tape punch/reader that I bought via eBay a few months ago, and I even use the same screwdriver trick when reading tapes. I've connected the machine up to my MacBook with an RS-232 to USB converter so I could archive some old tapes, and eventually to punch some new tapes for my PDP-8/M project. I've found that it takes longer to rewind the pile of tape on the floor than it does to make the pile in the first place! I have an electric paper tape winder, but it's intended to spool up tape while it comes out of a low-speed punch and it can't keep up with this reader. It may come in handy when punching tape on my 33 ASR, though.

[@Nf6xNet]

Thomas Buchmueller It's a GNT 4604. They show up on eBay from time to time, though finding one at a reasonable price isn't always easy!

[@tomlake2732]

Mark's Tech Channel Are you sure about that? It looks more like a 4601 instead. The six square buttons on top look more like the 4601 than the 4604.

[@Nf6xNet]

Thomas Lake You might be right. I just looked at my 4604, and it has rectangular buttons with square raised tops.

[@deramp5113]

Actually, its a GNT-4606 :)

[@SeattlePioneer]

So how much did the paper tape reader/punch set you back?

[@michaelbruce5415]

DEC (Digital Equipment Corp) had a fabulous answer to the paper tape mess. Fan folded paper tapes, the paper tape was read from the fan and restacked in a fan on the other side of the reader.

[@derekchristenson5711]

Wow, that's pretty neat! I'd heard of such devices, but I've never seen one used before. The speed was actually impressive.

[@oubrioko]

Two people apparently prefer Hollerith Cards

[@RonJohn63]

Or they live in Palm Beach County, Florida and time-traveled from November 2000.

[@scowell]

Colossus could read 5000chars/sec... in 1943... but it tore up the tape doing it. They slowed it to 3000chars/sec for breaking Tunny TTY encryption... won the war! It had the first optical tape reader... just like the one here, optical, uses the sprocket holes for sync.

[@ZaneWuffy]

+scowell the real colossus or the movie version? :B

[@scowell]

+Zane Wuffy No, the book _The Forbin Project_, of course.

[@ZaneWuffy]

oh excellent

[@jtc1947]

Co-worker used a punch connected up to a TRS-80 mod 1 for some complicated stuff that HE did for marketing cotton for our company. He delved into some ASSEMBLER programming language for the task. I don't think that the device did any reading just punching. It was fascinating. After the tapes were punched, the output went through an old fashioned teletype. The punching deal saved a lot f time, effort and frustration.

[@SeattlePioneer]

Wheee! That's fun! For an encore, how about getting hold of an old IBM magnetic tape unit and connecting that up to the Altair?!

[@jaxnean2663]

ok I'm not familiar at all of how computers work at the deeper level, I came here out of curiosity after reading about the Altair 8800. this is quite interesting! I always wanted to know how we reached something like say...Photoshop or a PS4 game from simple electric circuits. I guess it's building and building upon basic foundations...anyway, this old PC sure does great job of demonstrating programing and it really looks cool!

[@mickelodiansurname9578]

I'm too young to have used paper tape myself.... maybe by five or six years. But when I was a kid my dads office always had reems of the stuff whenever I was in there... just always sitting in the bins and whatnot. I didn't know what it even was for a few years, and by that time it was history.

[@MikeinVirginia1]

I was a student at Nashville State Technical Institute from 1974 to 1976. Bingo, right in time for early computers. In fact, the school bought an Altair. One day it didn't work, and it turned out someone had stolen the processor. I was told that it was worth $300+ at the time. My early career was full of Teletypes and 8085 processors!

[@phonotical]

Be interesting to see if those punch cards/tapes could be used in other things, like musical reproduces or as patterns for weaving

[@ThunderClawShocktrix]

actulyl punch cards were fist used to weave patterns in automic looms and a wider many more channeels vers of paper tape was used fr player panios

[@phonotical]

@mipmipmipmipmip to express code as musical notation? It's been done before

[@mbbxx]

for the next video... could you punch an h.265 encoded 4k video file in the paper tape; run it through the reader and play in back on the screen using the altair?

[@RaymondHng]

+mbbxx How long is the video? A one-minute video with audio at 2160p resolution encoded in H.264 is 162.2 MB. At 10 bytes per inch, the video would take 16.22 million inches or 256 miles of paper tape. A Teletype ASR 33 reading at 10 characters per second will take 4505.5 hours or 187.7 days or 6.17 months. That's more than half a year for one minute of video. This high speed tape reader reading at 45 characters per second will take 100.123 hours or 4.17 days to read.

[@michaelcampion541]

This is Beyond Cool ... always loved the 8800 and teletype, thanks!

[@modemfox]

first time I have ever seen a paper tape punched, pretty neat!

[@PL-VA]

We had winders back then. You would take the lead of the roll, put it at tension on the winder, and you would have a roll. You'll then use a 2nd winder and wind it so the tape would have the beginning first instead of last. They were very fast - much faster than any reader - as a matter of fact, you may break your tape if you use it wrong. For that we had a gadget I cannot recall was named, that you could take a broken paper tape and sticky tape them together.

[@donmoore7785]

Never had experience with paper tape. Very cool. And fast.

[@lpi3]

Extremely nice video. Im 36 and I only know how to load programs from cassette on my zx spectrum. Altair with punched tapes looks so much more impressive

[@JaredConnell]

Imagine if computers still used similar technology and we were loading huge spools of tape but with tiny microscopic holes to load programs or watch movies etc lol

[@martinsalko1]

that is witchcraft. How i na world can it punch 70 chars per second? *THIS IS SO AWESOME !! :D*

[@rushikeshr7295]

yes man it's awesome

[@typograf62]

At high school we once had a computer that was connected to some teletypes and a few VDUs. So we also had a winder. That computer and the teletypes were thrown out and new and smarter machines (ABC-80) were bought. But for some weird reason the winder stayed. None of the teachers seemed to know its purpose, only that it was "some important equipment". So it just stayed on a shelf.

[@amoledzeppelin]

The first pirate weapon in history. This is what the hobbyists got Dirty Billy angry with.

[@twistedyogert]

How does a paper tape reader work? I'd imagine that it is some sort of optical system where a light shines through holes in the tape and a sensor sees the light and records that as a pulse of electric current and these pulses are sent to the computer for interpretation.

[@wa4aos]

Very good video...Who made that paper punch/reader?

[@AlanCanon2222]

Dang, that's fast (remembering the Teletype ASR-33 of my youth). That Chase game was my favorite to implement on whatever BASIC I could get my hands on. The first one I played was on a Cromemco multi-terminal system.

[@AppliedCryogenics]

Instead of manually entering the seed value, I wonder if there are any good places to peek() in RAM that might have volatile content... maybe some counter used internally by BASIC, for example. I'm guessing there's no option for a real time clock or anything fancy like that.

[@douro20]

That tape reader/punch was originally close to $10,000.

[@ericjumpelfeaturingjohnnyj4135]

I have one of these reader/puncher machines that I hope to get going again. Pretty sure that's a GNT brand you're using. Mine is the 4601. Bought it from an eBay seller some time ago. I tried to punch something using an old DOS laptop and QBASIC as I thought with the native serial port and age appropriate hardware environment otherwise, I would have less trouble getting something punched out than going to a Windows machine with a USB/RS232 adapter. Anyway, I never made it work and had to focus on other things. Just wondering if you might share your serial port hardware configuration with us? My machine has DIP switches underneath for baud rate, stop bits, etc.. Are you using anything more than a 3-wire cable? I think the cable I was trying to use nulled out pins 6,8,20 while handshaking with 4 and 5. That didn't work! Something didn't. Could be defective serial line drivers. Easy fix, but I'd like to try it again against a known working configuration. Thanks for the vid!

[@slipangle3027]

So how many little tiny paper circles did you end up with? :v

[@mauryginsberg7720]

Are there any open source plans/schematics for a paper tape reader/punch so one can be made brand new from scratch?

[@Darkk6969]

Awesome video. I never knew these paper tape drives can run so fast. Imagine using it with the Commodore Vic-20 back in the day!

[@capiberra4118]

Where would one go to buy a tape punch / reader like this? I find that even garden variety teletype machines are scarce as hen's teeth these days. Cheers, thanks and best regards!

[@no_drinks9135]

8:12 The most satisfying thing i've ever seen.

[@mephitusincognito7918]

What is the data density of the tape? (how many inches for a kilobyte for instance)

[@deramp5113]

Paper tapes are 10 bytes per inch.

[@williefleete]

where does it put the punched out dots? save them and use them for a craft project or similar

[@benfrombelow]

I think it counts them as valid votes for president

[@robertkopp873]

The punched out paper “dots” are called, “chads”. They drop in to a small removable waste box which one empties, as required.

[@ninoporcino5790]

amazing! Does the tape encodes all the 8 bits? I see 9 holes, I guess 8 for the data bits and the small hole for traction and sync, right?

[@rty1955]

The center holes were used to lock onto the drive wheel on a teletype

[@gryzman]

Where can I get my hands on those punch card reader/writer thingies?

[@chadcastagana9181]

Is that paper or film stock. The latter is what Konrad Zuse used in his early programmable computers from the 1940's

[@tenshibokusatu3260]

On the occasion of an emergency, there is only this. The magnetism may destroy it.

[@renegade1298]

wait so in japan they use these in an emergency?

[@Omnihil777]

I'm following your channel for quite a time with fascination (some of your vids I've seen 7 or more time), some years ago I had the honor to see an original 8800, unfortunately NOT in running condition. I'm curious if you'll make some other vintage computer clones in the future, for example the awesome KENBAK 1 from 1970/71 or the Titus MARK-8 or the MIKRAL - I could go on and on. It's sooo fascinating, they should teach octal at school! (Just my humble opinion lol)

[@rodrigobrasiliense5406]

I have an equal machine. I want to punch something but I do not know how. Can you help me? I want to at least test the machine to see if it's okay. Is it possible to drill the tape without connecting to a computer?

[@franwex]

Is that Michael Keaton’s voice narrating?

[@EpicTyphlosionTV]

How do you even get unpunched paper tape?

[@Meteotrance]

Now imagine the same process with a piece of paper or a kodak film and a long QR code print on this, with a laser player it could be blazing fast and a good way to preserve data on more durable material, optical disc are great but we could make simple optical device like that read data on paper or film.

[@ArtoPekkanen]

Is this high speed paper tape reader faster than the cassette module?

[@hakemon]

Is there a way we can find a copy of that game that was loaded from tape?

[@qweasd1999]

Hello, is this GNT6401 puncher? How di you configure it to use 8bit tape?

[@ForViewingOnly]

Great video! What is the make and model of the high speed reader/punch?

[@deramp5113]

This is a GNT-4606 from GN Telematic

[@ForViewingOnly]

deramp5113 -Thanks. It was great to see it in action in this video!

[@ForViewingOnly]

Amazingly, GNT are still going, and on their website they are still selling reader/punches under their CNC/NC page, and also paper tape supplies. Surely tape readers/punches aren't still being used today in industry, are they? If they are, I'm even more surprised that a cheap and simple SD-card based reader/writer hasn't replaced them in the CNC/NC setup. I'd be interested if anybody has any insight on this.

[@popper666]

Use an electric power drill with an half-spool to wind up your tapes. Easy to construct.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Are you familiar with the DSI NC-2400? There seems to be no technical / repair info on the internet

[@deramp5113]

Jordan Rubin Here's a link to a manual for the NC-2400: bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dsi/3401L_NC-2400_Operation_Feb83.pdf

[@retrotechandelectronics]

deramp5113 Ive got that one, in the same directory there is a much nicer August 83 revision that I have bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dsi/3401L_NC-2400_Operation_Aug83.pdf also some firmware as well bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dsi/ Im looking for a technical manual for the purpose of repair

[@douro20]

The NC-2400 is a very nice machine. It's one of the fastest readers and punches ever marketed.

[@majkl98se15]

Are you using a different type of paper tape rather than the one used in the video with the Teletype? It appears to me that the speed of this paper tape reader would tear the paper tape unless stronger paper is used! Also, is the probability for error in the loaded program higher if you use this hi-speed paper tape reader/writer?

[@deramp5113]

+Majkl98 No, both tapes are the same other than color. The high speed reader is optical, so there is no chance of damaging the tape other than the sprocket feed. Once the tape is up to speed, there's probably less force on the sprocket holes with the high speed reader than with the Teletype feed mechanism.

[@majkl98se15]

+deramp5113 Well I guess that's the reason why it was so expensive, other than the speed ;)

[@rippspeck]

Yo, that is one quick machine.

[@vvdvlas8397]

Шикарный "Tape Reader/Punch" У меня был СП-3 и ПЛ-80 (тарахтел как трактор) Classy "Tape Reader / Punch" I had СП-3 and ПЛ-80 (rattled like a tractor)

[@Francois_Dupont]

how much is a real Altair 8800 worth? i got one in mint condition with a bunch of other hardware in storage.

[@AxelWerner]

What a beauty!!!!!!!! i would love to play with this gear soooo much :3

[@W-Ostr]

Hello. Can you tell model of keyboard? Nice clicky sound. :)

[@larryhagemann5548]

Who manufactured the punch and reader?

[@deramp5113]

It is a GNT-4606 by GN Telematic

[@SuPeRbOmBeRmAn4]

when colossus was finally made small enough to sell to the masses.

[@NeverBored_retro_rehab]

Absolutely fascinating

[@jq747]

"Last one out of the lab gets to roll up the paper tapes"

[@richardhaas39]

A Teletype ASR did not punch tape particularly fast but Teletype did make a high speed punch faster than this: www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/sales/drpe-descr-6310.pdf. It was standalone equipment however.

[@rty1955]

Haha i hated the Altair 3 bit/nyble switches. I modified mine for 4 bits per nyble, unless you are used to a PDP, actual makes no sense. I also used mylar tape as it was much more durable than paper tape. Mylar tape was used on early CNC machines due to the very greasy environment. Paper tape would not last long at all. I still have a few rolls of mylar tape aroind

[@allanegleston13]

are you a museum or a hobbiest , you got a great collection there and the room to do it .wink

[@Integral2128]

да ну нафиг эти перфоленты, у меня до сих пор память на аудиокассетах

[@gdm413229]

A paper tape punch/reader that operates at the speed of USB 3.0?

[@Ptolemusa]

+gdm413229 By my calculation it would need to feed the tape at a blistering 1588km/s (986.7miles/s) to achieve the same data rate. In other units 5716800km/h (3552000mph) A truly insane speed. It would be an impressive sight indeed to see such a machine capable of doing that.

[@gdm413229]

Punching paper tapes at this rate starts fires as far as I guess.

[@DiverCTH]

+gdm413229 LP0: Printer on Fire!

[@JohnAK72]

Great video,

[@SimirJohnson]

Witchcraft - and this computer business will never catch on. Pass the paper and pencil.

[@stuf2201]

I love you man. I love you.

[@cursed_cats5710]

imagine if someone fused the two ends of the tape together and left the reader to run

[@DoRC]

this is very cool

[@737Garrus]

Wow! Interesting machines!

[@burning_lemons4514]

what time period is this? is it 60s?

[@amoledzeppelin]

70s

[@allanegleston4931]

and a lot queter as well.

[@MadScientist267]

Peculiar they didn't just build in a spooling system into that...

[@deramp5113]

See the "chase.bas" file at altairclone.com/downloads/basic/BASIC%20Programs/8K%20BASIC/

[@FuzzyLogicxxx]

Give it to CuriousMarc

[@geoffreyoltmans4356]

Love it! Thanks.

[@SO_DIGITAL]

very interesting

[@versedbridge4007]

Paper tape machine go burrr

[@helmut666kohl]

Now make a video where you stream the telnet version of Star Wars® via a spool…

[@hometablet4717]

Very nice vid . I have a GNT4604 in excellent condition if anyone is interested

[@CMBuchanan]

I'm interested in the GNT4604

[@yuzguc]

I'm also interested, please provide more details

[@CMBuchanan]

Is it for sale?

[@qweasd1999]

I am also interested if it is still on sale

[@hometablet4717]

Hallo guys sorry for the slow reply , yes I still have one for sale ,we got it together with an old 1987 Trumatic 180 machine our first test programs where sent with punching tape then we switched to rs232 adapter. Please contact me if you are interested so I can sent pics [e-mail] thank you , Elias

[@matteofalduto766]

Imagine if today MS Excel took 15 minutes to load 💀

[@Integral2128]

это че, проц ногами на светодиоды припаяли и все?

[@allanegleston13]

meh, try punched cards. great series.

[@randywatson8347]

This is so cool!

[@yvesbajulaz]

:-)