TCW: Plato, Aristotle and Socrates Can Save Us From the Culture Wars | Amanpour and Company

[@ravenbone3028]

I'm half Filipino. In high school history class, I learned about the Filipino-American War and "White Man's Burden." My instructor read aloud the very racist and ignorant rationale for the war: these people are savages and must be civilized for their own good. The paternalistic idea that we know better so, it follows that we know what's best for you. I went to a majority white school. To my classmates these were simply facts. Did this history make me uncomfortable and offended? Absolutely. But therein lies the value of history. Knowledge of it can be a terrible burden because it is so heavy. There is much grief in the story of humanity. But to be well-versed in history is ennobling. The past informs the present. But in the present, we have the power to shape the future; an eventual history.

[@solarnaut]

Thanks for sharing this. For some reason your comments bring to mind the #Complicated topic of "family secrets." I imagine many "secrets" do die with a prior generation, but presumably "healthy minded shrinks" would argue those toxins reveal themselves in perverse ways and that "sunlight is the best disinfectant, etc. . . hiding under the bed covers sounds mighty tempting at times ! B-)

[@ravenbone3028]

@@solarnaut No. Not a family secret. That's more personalized. This is the broader scope of intergenerational trauma and closer to the mark of what you mean.

[@taraclarke6850]

well articulated 🙏

[@donatelladuplessis4832]

It's this guy! I remember reading his article and it was one of the nicest things I have ever read; a wonderful defence of the Classics in the face of identity politics.

[@carlpope6541]

For me, TCW is a very important voice in American culture.

[@tccragun]

Wow ! Best and most timely interview EVER ! Gonna listen to this one over and over. Thanks Amanpour and Company (and of course, PBS)

[@dividedconquered3784]

The active cancelling of books is heart breaking! I learned more from independent books than school. My kids will read real factual books. That's the only way to better this world. Looking at the past and correcting the future. Without actual and factual books and education, you end up with PEOPLE attacking the Capital thinking they are patriotic!💚🌷✌

[@neilifill4819]

I wholeheartedly agree.

[@margo3367]

My mother had a paperback copy of Peyton Place and she cautioned me two or three times not to read it. Of course, I read it the first chance I got. I hear Catcher in the Rye is on the banned books list. Sad to think kids potentially growing up without Holden Caulfield, angst-ridden and disaffected teen.

[@uniquelylily1166]

Amen! A clear and concise statement.

[@solarnaut]

unfortunately the devil resides in the details (e.g. "it depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is"); "Real Factual books" may be in the eye of the beholder. Sam Harris has a recent eloquent sililoquy on, his friend, Joe Rogan's "apology." Sam speaks of the insanity of imbuing words with magical incantation properties in supposing it matters who speaks them. #BanWORDburning

[@ireneswackyjournals8810]

To be honest, the majority of the books I read were not in school curriculum. They were college and university level books that my mother gave to me growing up. It was the only way to get into advanced placement classes. School did not try to teach. Florida was FCAT territory so it was bottling questions toward students

[@niconestra]

Being offended and being truthful should be two different things.

[@ireneswackyjournals8810]

You are not a true patriot if you can’t take the bad history with the good history

[@universalheartstring]

Sometimes its not the truth you tell but how you tell it.

[@billb5732]

So refreshing to see some actual good sense about this issue. I have been loving TCW's magazine recently. They are doing some of the best reporting anywhere.

[@k.t.5405]

min 3:33 "(programming) children into thinking of themselves as black or white...a lot of problems come out of this" Most important words I've heard this year. But its NOT just that...its the power structure. Racists in positions of power.

[@MylesFCorcoran]

Excellent in all respects. Thank you.

[@livliv4169]

Mr Thomas C. William's voice is good! Do we value our children's futures? Our brains must be better than mail boxes for daily junk mail. Move onward and upward humanity.

[@kimthomas781]

We need more calm reasoned people like him.

[@neiltropolis]

We still have slavery, low wage jobs with no way out. Abysmal apartment living, if you're lucky.

[@Sophiedorian0535]

The concept of ‘Content of Character’ is fundamental to the classics.

[@veex48]

Wow, excellent discourse. More please.

[@TSidez]

As a mixed person, it’s nice you get to ignore or de-emphasize race. Many of us who are of darker complexion do not have that luxury.

[@jasonamaral7568]

This dude is insufferable.

[@annowens5019]

"... This dude is insufferable ..." Not to some and that is a problem. There is something incoherent in his Hakuna Mata/Kum Ba Yah position. There has to be "Truth in Reconciliation" and Recognition and Effort Expended to Obtain the Ideal we would all hope to achieve: To be seen as Human Beings and as Individuals. I find that goal, difficult to achieve, without an examination of the actual history of America (and impossible to achieve employing the 'Disneyland version').

[@Aeroboo]

Exacactly it would be great to 'have no color: its a luxury to relax and not have to worry about how people treat you because of your!!!!!!! The police work. etc....

[@emilyfeagin2673]

If you aren’t uncomfortable at some point, you won’t grow intellectually or emotionally

[@charlesputnam9370]

Will Durant's book Story of Philosophy really great book.

[@donjames7971]

Being of mixed-heritage I never considered myself other than human, of a national origin with a citizenship beholden to the country which I call home .. . My journey has been long and meandering through Time, with ongoing academic-actual-philosophical lessons .. !

[@freedomofreligion3248]

If separation by race is only a "recent construct", then, the slave-hunters, sellers, & owners ARE recent. And therefore, meaningful to our society.

[@davidlafleche1142]

Slavery is still going on in the world today (Revelation 18:13, KJV).

[@Noms_Chompsky]

I see these cancelled people all the time on the news and on You Tube getting them mad clicks telling everyone about how they can't be heard by anyone. Being canceled is on fleek signal boosting yo

[@Charactermatters650]

“Telling everyone bout how they can’t be heard by anyone” - ha ha love that line Wish I could be cancelled….It seems like the place to be these days….dang

[@cmathews5909]

Socrates, Plato, Aristotle weren't white, they were Greek and studied in Africa thanks to Macedonian aggression.

[@galanis38]

Alexander the Great was a student of Aristotle, and Aristotle was a student of Plato who in turn had been Socrates' student, so the Macedonian conquests came AFTER the lives of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. It seems very unlikely that any of these philosophers ever went to Africa. That said, the ancient Greeks had long had contact with Africa, cultural as well as trade-wise -- with North Africa and extending as far as Ethiopia, for centuries before Alexander's conquests. And you are certainly right that it is wrong to consider Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, or even Alexander as "white." To do so is to attribute current definitions of racial categories to people who did not think of themselves or their contacts with other ethnicities/"races" at all in this manner.

[@cmathews5909]

@@galanis38 Gal, Macedonia attacked Athens numerous times as a client state for Persia, and at least four more times for its own ends, and then again during the Peloponnesian War siding with Sparta. These series of wars begin just before Socrates birth, and if I recall correctly, the primary reason and theme of "the Republic". From what I've read, it seems that Athens did not have what we (or Africans during that era) consider schools until Plato created his school.

[@LIVE-SAGT]

Who is this guy? He's amazing.

[@cherylnagy126]

"Letter from a Birmingham Jail" Martin Luther King, Junior

[@solarnaut]

3:20 "indoctrinating children, and each other, into believing in these abstract categories of racial classification to begin with... educating children into thinking of themselves as 'white', thinking of themselves as 'black' ... a more fundamental solution to the problem is to find ways to TRANSCEND the mistake of race in the first place." #JoinTheHumanRace B-)

[@Aeroboo]

So white folk need to wake up and get with the human program!!!!!

[@solarnaut]

@@Aeroboo don't forget about the purple with pink polka dots folk . . . and the turquoise folk . . . and . . . B-)

[@dw7312]

Right and wrong is not a debate …

[@lizthor-larsen7618]

To suggest that being progressive and leftist is woke is the problem. How do people get away with huddling in their preconceived ideas about other people in the world, unwilling or unable to discuss honestly the huge variety of political opinions that exist in the world? This interview is painfully liberal. Not everyone is a liberal. Many are democratic socialists and many, of the trump gang are out and out racist fascists. This interview is a classic example of the "mushy middle" group of people who find themselves comfortably situated and are relieved to have extracted themselves from those still struggling in this very unequal, exploitative system called capitalism.

[@roberth2627]

same tired stuff..their were African thinkers' way before the Greeks always centering the Greeks as the only go to thinkers..even Plato himself went to Africa ancient Egypt to study.....lets hear some new voices & narratives Please...!

[@weston.weston]

TCW's reporting snd points of view never resonated with me. Although, I appreciate him sharing his individual story.

[@julesjgreig]

Good story, thank you.

[@josephwheeler6674]

This concept of "wokeness" means different things to different people. To be awoke means to be informed, to be aware of history, science, etc., Many blacks, whites, and other Americans did not know anything about the Tulsa Massacre, the Elaine Massacre, or the other violent attacks on black people throughout the history of this country.

[@whatsinaname7076]

Imagine thinking that it is the Liberals that need a lecture on preserving classics- cultural blindness, perhaps

[@mrfloydp]

This is a very balanced take on a very serious problem, wokeness, which if not curtailed, will bring us 4 more years of Trump, and threatens to end American democracy.

[@dkg1231]

A fellow at the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute, says it all.

[@burtonlee22]

No mention of: study of history, learning foreign languages, reading anthropology, overseas study and travel

[@margo3367]

I just realized that you don't have to think about your skin color if you're white.

[@ashleyokurley2605]

Loved the push back on Isaacson's notion that Aristotle, Plato and Socrates reflected a "white" worldview. Race wouldn't come along until 16-17 centuries later!

[@BloomByCC]

I am party-less- Democrats too far left and GOP just bonkers at this point, unrecognizable. Cancel culture pushed me away from almost all mainstream entertainment. “News” that focuses on, thus promotes, the worst of us… we desperately need dialogue, debate (rational), and civic engagement. And, we must stop politicization as though democrats and the GOP are equally to blame; they are not..

[@TSidez]

You missed what he said. He said that the most left voices are getting the most press. The Democratic Party is far from left. If anything, they probably should be more left. The GOP on the other hand is all in right wing, heading towards far right.

[@kimthomas781]

@@TSidez I snorted when I read that part. The dems are in no way left. That’s why I’m an independent.

[@TSidez]

@@kimthomas781 Agreed. I think folks political lens are so screwed they think basic things such as *voting rights* and abortion are far left issues. We have moved so far to the right, the center is damn near the far right.

[@nancywysemen7196]

history as it goes along rhymes-very good.

[@olasylvia1]

Amen .

[@larrylemke9587]

The Great Philosophers, challenged the Mind, thoughts have no COLOR.

[@wwsenecado]

Enjoy his articulation of ideas and nuances, but at 4:30 I think he suggests or actually proposes a standard to the Democratic Party that has been discarded COMPLETELY by the Republican Party. While it may be valid criticism of the Democratic Party what debate or forensic tournament would allow such hypocrisy /How can we have a genuine debate under such rules?

[@kaynickerson6138]

🌺🌿🌺🌿 Have a beautiful day 💗😘💗😘

[@juancana457]

Integrity as a leveler, has the potential to acknowledge, and reward, the mature adult by allowing them a lifestyle unencumbered by as few petty intrusions as are needed to function in what is commonly considered a 'western style' democracy. Collectively, wether society has a hetero or homogeneous culture, is NOT RELEVANT, instead how it's progeny are raised to see their fellow citizen as valuable and deserving, or just potential rivals for resources and status, is, most likely, how they will regard their fellow citizen.

[@jasonamaral7568]

*smh. These "let's all be nice" critics are insufferable already...

[@wwsenecado]

Have absolutely no doubt about his sincerity and view/wish for a better discourse, but I can’t help but think of the poem Plato Told. At 4:30 he decries the Woke people, I get it. I’m certain the right coined Defund the police. Seriously. Birds aren’t real, right. But why the apology? Find anyone in the Republican Party apologizing for utter nunacy , let alone actions to destroy this country. Literally. There are words and there are actions. Massive time lag. By the way, I really think the only people who haven’t been WOKE since 2015 are the people from center to left

[@davidmambrose4210]

very beautiful man physically and mentally

[@vettelover695]

Host’s Question to the guy who doesn’t believe in Race or racial thinking: “ Youve come from a mixed race background, how does that inform you’re thinking…”. Let that sink in. Lol. 🙄 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@taraclarke6850]

Trust .. have observed the big lack of trust that’s erupted with the omnipotence of the internet 😞 😞😞

[@maxwellsimoes238]

State are controling education of the colleges arent expresson speech. Bertrand Russel on education are excellent book. Politics hates the freedoom expresson from student has owns opinion . American are close expresson freedoon speech.

[@boogedyboofus]

i heart TCW

[@ScholarlyAmbitions]

99.9% similarities in our DNA means we are all each others ancestors, now pay me my $199.😉

[@tauIrrydah]

I refer you to the Ostraka. But sure lets still demand a towering battery of persuasion when you'll still get an 'agree to disagree' at the end of a mountain of evidence and counter evidence that was comercially produced to destroy the notion of empiricism.

[@deanjackson2102]

Europeans just translated everyone else's stuff then put it into English with a remix=that is FACTS

[@francescalee2497]

Greeks and Romans are considered European. They even thought so themselves as they lived west of the Bosphorus. What they didn’t consider themselves to be was “white” because clearly everyone is brown or beige. Moreover, Romans didn’t believe in a single Roman race. They came to the conclusion that if you fought for Rome, paid your taxes, and embraced Roman culture, you were Roman. It didn’t matter what you looked like, but you probably had to like wine, vinegar, olives and garum. There were quite a few Romans who would be considered “black” by modern racial terminology, but they were just Roman.

[@annowens5019]

Would that it were so in America ... ie Isaac Woodard, WW II Veteran ... or Cripus Attucks

[@lennykoss8777]

💗

[@cbbcbb6803]

When you say parents, do you just mean white parents. There are more people in this country than just white parents. And more than just white and black parents. What if I am Hawaiian (I'm not) and want my children to grow up speaking Hawaiian and receive all of their education (pre-school thru post graduate education) in Hawaiian? A universalist that ignores non-western classics (there are non western classics) is not a universalist. It's not possible that everything is tribal except western civilization. You have to include all humanity, not just the western part. Can an old book not be an old Chinese book? What about India? I think you are only promoting your favorite tribalism. If you are a living breathing human being and can pronounce the word "tribal", or the equivalent word in any other language, you are tribal. I guess I am "woke", whatever that means.

[@annowens5019]

And that is the elusive core of 'what is Incorrect' in the Interviewer's perspective.

[@targaghjj]

Ugh, thank you. This guy seems to be intent on dragging us backward.

[@tomhenderson2430]

Politicization *

[@Aeroboo]

Race is not meaningful??? Really ???You are so lucky to say and feel that. As a Black women my life has been severly affected because of my skin color the father of my daughter who is white he and his family refused to recognize her.... this not meaningful .....sorry I admire you but you so naive...

[@christopherhughes1184]

All I could think of listening to this was how nice to live in such a privileged state that this is simply an abstract philosophical exercise. Really disappointing take on America in 2020s.

[@Scotts865]

1984 group think.

[@donjindra]

This guy mostly wavers between strawmen and nonsense. I'd never heard of him. Then I looked him up. He's with AEI. So that's why he thinks Plato and Aristotle have the answers. That's why he stands on a mountain of 'weighty' assertions..

[@annowens5019]

Thank you for the information on AEI and the resume of the Commentator.

[@sweetlord3672]

No they can't

[@nfpnone8248]

You don’t have to go that far back, just go back to the founding of our country! They did a great job balancing factions, maybe you should actually read the Federalist Papers, I would suggest you start with Federalist #’s 9 & 10, “The Union as a Safeguard against Domestic Faction and Insurrection” Hamilton and Madison respectively. I can’t believe the level of ignorance in a supposedly advanced society. By the way, race in America didn’t become an issue until reconstruction when they didn’t want freed blacks, poor whites, and other undesirables from participating in government, especially in southern states where those demographic groups out numbered the rich white population!

[@scottdavis3571]

Ideas that try to force people to think the same like "Christian Nationalism"?

[@targaghjj]

Atrocious. Disappointed to see this on Amanpour.

[@davidlafleche1142]

Plato was a conceited, elitist snob.

[@MekonenMeteor123]

Bruh the questioner is not keeping up this guys answers 😂 Clearly not listening 😂Incapable of listening 😂

[@complainielainie]

Walter didn’t even try to approach this conversation in good faith. “Do you think it’s helpful for kids to feel guilty about their race?” Come on guy that’s so reductive. TCW handled the vitriol with grace though.

[@veex48]

Oh, please, don’t project your own vitriol onto Walter. Excellent thoughtful discussion.

[@ebthedoc4992]

I find the introductory remark by Walter Isaacson unforgivable. The arrogant suffisant knows better. CRT is an elective taught at graduate level in some of our Law Schools, not US High Schools. He has grated on my nerves, before, but he is making me quite angry. And his understanding of Plato, Socrates, or any contemporary philosophy, for that matter, does not match mine, at all.