The Failed Age of Globalization and a New Era of "Homecoming" | Amanpour and Company

As the global economy faces increasing pressure, our next guest is making the case that the era of globalization is over. Rana Foroohar is a global economic analyst for CNN and columnist at the Financial Times. In her new book, "Homecoming," Foroohar examines ways in which events like COVID-19, and Russia's war on Ukraine, have disrupted fragile global supply chains. She tells Walter Isaacson that the future for the global economy may lie in local and regional business.
Originally aired on October 17, 2022
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Major support for Amanpour and Company is provided by the Anderson Family Charitable Fund, Sue and Edgar Wachenheim, III, Candace King Weir, Jim Attwood and Leslie Williams, Mark J. Blechner, Bernard and Denise Schwartz, Koo and Patricia Yuen, the Leila and Mickey Straus Family Charitable Trust, Barbara Hope Zuckerberg, Jeffrey Katz and Beth Rogers, the Filomen M. D’Agostino Foundation and Mutual of America.
Subscribe to the Amanpour and Company. channel here: bit.ly/2EMIkTJ
Subscribe to our daily newsletter to find out who's on each night: www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-...
For more from Amanpour and Company, including full episodes, click here: to.pbs.org/2NBFpjf
Like Amanpour and Company on Facebook: bit.ly/2HNx3EF
Follow Amanpour and Company on Twitter: bit.ly/2HLpjTI
Watch Amanpour and Company weekdays on PBS (check local listings).
Amanpour and Company features wide-ranging, in-depth conversations with global thought leaders and cultural influencers on the issues and trends impacting the world each day, from politics, business and technology to arts, science and sports. Christiane Amanpour leads the conversation on global and domestic news from London with contributions by prominent journalists Walter Isaacson, Michel Martin, Alicia Menendez and Hari Sreenivasan from the Tisch WNET Studios at Lincoln Center in New York City.
#amanpourpbs

[@lukeyznaga7627]

Everyone in high school NEED TO BE taught this. Don't wait for children to learn this in Universities. Teach it to them now, in high school!!!

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

No, Luke, everybody doesn't. She is confused. Her "facts" are false and her perspective is the simple confusion of local American complaints with any analysis of the world's economy. This is utter nonsense, and Amanpour & Co. should be ashamed of themselves for publishing this pop siliness.

[@lukeyznaga7627]

thank you for all the thumbs up by people. a couple of trolls attacked me, but for the most part, people agree with me.

[@seanfaherty]

They don’t seem to teach it in university either. Two years ago many of these experts were telling us they didn’t know why inflation wasn’t going up. Now they pretend they are surprised but a stupid hillbilly in the middle of nowhere saw it coming . Morons. They know that there are two ways to fight inflation and the way every central bank is choosing is raising interest rates rather than a windfall tax that would only affect the largest companies. Politicians do not want to hurt their donors but they are willing to screw their constituents.

[@lukeyznaga7627]

@Mister_Whiskers stupid trolls

[@MrTodayistheday]

kids need to understand basic economics first. 1) They would learn that the profit motive drives investment and is the foundation of our society. 2) Competition drives down prices. 3) The value of our goods and services is determined by what a potential buyer is willing to pay, not what we want. 4) We cannot get something for nothing. This lady has lots of ideas that have been around for 50 years. But, they are impractical. Many of her ideas would actually decrease competition and investment and drive up prices. She should not be on this show without someone knowledgeable adding context to suggestions.

[@TheCalicohorse]

I have NEVER been comfortable with how much offshore manufacturing has been done for the last several decades. Human rights violations in some countries are ignored and the cost to the environment? Freighters and freighters of "dollar store" merchandise coming west...most of it to end up in landfills eventually.

[@jamesmedina2062]

landfill in short order! A year or two of toy play and then thrown away! Furniture also used for 1-2 years at most. Clothing 1-2 years. Cars switched out after 1 or 2 years, 3 max

[@pedrolopes3542]

Do you really believe that if those products were being produced in the west (the US, Canada, Europe) that you would not be throwing them away after a year or two (like most people do with current made in China products)? Planned obsolescence was not a concept invented by China, China just became good at it. the only way to dismantle the system of bad quality products that do not last is to legislate, creating minimum standards... That will make the products 3x more expensive, and less profitable for the companies that make them... is there a will to change that? I don't see it, American brands like Apple will not sell any product that does not have some soort of built in programed obsolescence feature, or is the software, or the connection ports, or the hardware itself or the new built in features that consumers don't use, but can't live without (I remember how useless Bluetooth data transfer was but all phones needed to have it). mindset and legislation needs to change... Will it change? Will we change?

[@jonathondreyer8644]

@@pedrolopes3542 Apple isn't a good example. My Apple products usually last more than 5 years. I'd say they're pretty good quality. Ms.Mc is talking about the low cost goods at dollar stores and Wal-Marts. Complete garbage that ends up in a landfill within 1-2 years.

[@TheCalicohorse]

@@pedrolopes3542 You're right -of course- that garbage will still mount regardless of where it's made, but the other factors are still reason to make more in North America and Mexico for that matter: less costly - and hopefully cleaner fuel for transportation, no looking the other way on subsistence (at best) wages and human rights violations, and better environmental laws. Reasons enough, I think.

[@OneAdam12Adam]

Most of it is shoddy and instantly ends in landfills.

[@regisnyder]

Ms. Foroohar should be on every news network promoting her book! This interview was very enlightening!

[@mk1st]

If Lauren Bobert were a smart person. 😊

[@Etatdesiege1979]

She’s smoking bad weed. Historically global trade has been the force pushing advancement. If the world starts to become isolationist we are headed to global war once again.

[@mk1st]

@@Etatdesiege1979 I don't think she's advocating for isolationism, just pointing out that it's heading to a world economy that's fragmented, but still globally connected.

[@LowenKM]

Yep, though too bad there was no mention of the 'elephant in the room'... Automation, which is replacing more jobs than it's creating, regardless where they're located..

[@leealexander3507]

We need to start enforcing the anti-trust laws again.

[@MrTodayistheday]

Can you identify a specific anti-trust law violation?

[@summerrain7466]

@@MrTodayistheday In the United States, antitrust law is a collection of mostly federal laws that regulate the conduct and organization of businesses to promote competition and prevent unjustified monopolies. In my state, our gas and electic are provided by the same company. The only company. There is no other option. No competitor. This would be a violation if politicians hadn't found a loophole.

[@splashesin8]

Yes, it needed to be done twelve years ago.

[@MrTodayistheday]

@@summerrain7466 Thank you for an excellent example. Most people watching CNN seem to think generating a profit is evil. I was hoping that nobody would recognize that utilities are a government-endorsed monopoly. And you did. :) I have business interests in Pakistan. At least US utilities provide reliable service. In Pakistan, service is not even reliable simply because of mismanagement and no government oversight. How would you introduce more competition? This is something that deserves a referendum. Who has an interest in promoting the referendum?

[@seanfaherty]

it seems as they were written over a hundred years ago there are some loopholes. Some made purposely and some due to unforeseen technology. Either way the filibuster kills any reform when either party is in power

[@theedgeofoblivious]

It's amazing how any time I'd tune into the television news they'd talk about inflation this and inflation that and low prices and completely ignore the fact that low prices don't help anyone who doesn't have good income. It's nice for once to see someone who's obviously not an idiot.

[@ninemoonplanet]

I hadn't even considered the actual inflation from things we buy, houses, cars, all sorts of things have actually gone double, triple in price while income has stayed low.

[@weston.weston]

I ❤ Walter Isaacson as an interviewer.

[@slikedragon]

I only know him through a few interviews on Amanpour, but it's clear he asks very good questions of the person he's interviewing.

[@weston.weston]

@@slikedragon You've been missing out.. He is a New Orleans native.. He was the head of Time Magazine and CNN for a long time. Also, he wrote is the only authorized biography for Steve Jobs; Jobs chose him as his biographer. He also wrote a biography of DaVinci and a few other notable global leaders. He is renowned!!

[@williambiagi1386]

@@weston.weston Yes indeed! He also has done some excellent work/coverage from the big yearly meetings in Jackson Hole, Aspen, the SALT Conference in New York and from the Milken Institute in San Diego.

[@nowthenzen]

especially when he calls for more pipelines even tho fossil fuel driven climate change is destroying the world. Hotter summers, less water but sure, more oil!

[@slikedragon]

@@nowthenzen most geostrategic that's today are calling for more pipelines because even though green is the future of energy, it isn't here yet, and trying to get oil companies to shut down operations right now will create an energy crunch that will prevent us from doing things to deal with Russia, for instance ( not to mention that sky high energy prices will put Republicans back in office, and they don't care anything about addressing climate change).

[@brucemclennan9715]

This was another important interview delivered by this show, thanks folks and keep them coming.

[@jeffreywilliams5093]

Rana Foroohar has great ideas. Too bad American conservatives will cripple democracy to promote concentration of wealth and privilege.

[@estitt1973]

It is just American conservatives who won’t go for this; there are plenty of well-to-do Liberals, the NIMBY types, who will fight this tooth and nail. Funny enough, Scott Galloway, a well-to-do Centrist by any measure, said as much in a video I watched yesterday. He said those Boomers who got cheap college education, cheap housing, won’t want other coming up and getting those same things because it works to decrease the value of their degrees AND their real estate investments.

[@estitt1973]

@Jeffrey Williams kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoDUdXyors2Whck

[@stevechance150]

We'll all the conservative red-neck, hillbilly base believes that they will one day be a rich millionaire, if only the Democrats would stop putting regulations on corporations, and taxing our precious Billionaires.

[@tccragun]

They are certainly trying hard to do just that…… but they will only succeed if We the People of the Liberty and Justice for All crowd allow their messages of fear to continue to echo.

[@jamesmedina2062]

Absolutely

[@norikadolmy7274]

We absolutely need anti trust action. A handful of companies control almost every market, making effective monopolies in some places. These monopolies and oligopolies must be crushed and replaced with a diverse selections of options

[@AGirlofYesterday]

They are breaking the law! Ever since Reagan started ignoring anti-trust offenses in the 80s, the US has continued the trend. Now we have crappy Spectrum dominating the market, Google, etc. All we need to do is actually enforce the laws.

[@twinstar9]

Not going to happen until Congress stops taking bribes, or bribes disguised as campaign contributions and lucrative jobs post gov. service.

[@francoisbouvier7861]

Don't tell that to this reaganite.

[@seanfaherty]

We need to elect congress people who would make it a priority

[@MrTodayistheday]

Anti trust for what?

[@Tamar-sz8ox]

Amapour & Company has been on fire 🔥 recently ! I’m in my 50s and in my childhood we had knitting mills in our home towns , a steel foundry , battery factories , and on and on , back to the future 🚀

[@SteveBrant55]

You all really are interviewing the most important people! Thank you!

[@Rnankn]

This is still a troubling industrial productivist mentality, that relies on material growth of the economy for legitimacy. The collapse of globalization should indeed restore local economies, but also enable decarbonization through dematerialization. A secure stable sufficiency economy of public services relieves the need for market and capital reliance and is a path to lower consumption and energy use while improving wellbeing. How many failures does it take to try something different instead of making the same mistakes over and over?

[@NyeGuy-yv2dv]

Spot on analysis.

[@lukeyznaga7627]

We lost our Steel Industry, we lost our big factories and Car Industries and we lost our textiles industries to overseas.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

Luke, America has had a healthy basic steel industry for centuries -- so long that its main source of steel today is scrap. Today, the US has a massive steel recycling industry and a family of diversified metals industries. In the rest of the world, less developed, basic steel is still growing.

[@joeljong931]

Maybe building US merchant marine vessels here instead of other countries would help. Ship building is dominated by asia and Europe.

[@lukeyznaga7627]

@Mr.Beant who cares where it moved to. What do I care about lower costs? So, we should never have any steel or any good self industry in our nation, because slave labor in China is lower costs and I AM SUPPOSED TO SHOW SYMPATHY for the corporations who moved there? NO, MR. BEANT, we did lose something. wE LOST CORPORATIONS who loved America and the american people and Patriotism, over MONEY AND GREED. yeah, we did lose something. Don't defend corporations who don't give a damn about you or your family or mine. Money is not the sole reason for living.

[@sherryberry2394]

Whoa... I found this extremely educating! I had very little sense about any of these connections before watching this video. I plan to watch it about 20 more times. Please keep more coming with this type of big picture insight!

[@totonow6955]

Hi. I am trying yo think of authors and interviews you might like. Would you like suggestions?

[@Stupidityindex]

Not mentioned is the fact global oil peak discoveries & business as usual were known in 1956.

[@asecretturning]

Indigenous leaders have been screaming this for decades, head in that direction!

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

Sherry, Look past her generalizations and noise and pick any fact at random. Then check it out. Capital flows, actual US employment. Anything. Your choice. You'll find she's wrong, time after time after time.

[@asecretturning]

@@TheDavidlloydjones David, What a remarkably perfect example of projection. Just because you don't know anything doesn't mean that facts have ceased to exist.

[@JamesOfEarth]

Seems to me that, whether local or global, the demand for growth still dooms us to an unsustainable future.

[@bsmithhammer]

All life is a process of growth and death, whether you are talking about an economy or spruce tree. What do you suggest as an alternative?

[@tigran56]

Easy. Stop consuming what you dont need. Two hundred odd years of never before seen and unsustainable growth will bring some serious environmental mega death. Alternative? Ride a bike.

[@bsmithhammer]

@@tigran56 🤣🤣🤣

[@francoisbouvier7861]

So steer the present course? Keep centralized wealth? Billions upon billions. That seems rational. Definition of insanity?

[@ninemoonplanet]

Unrestricted growth is known as cancer, I agree. Sustainable futures for countries can be done IF we get these massive corporations broken up. 4 corporations are in control of the FOOD systems. 4 companies are owners of over 40% of ALL rental housing. BlackRock, "American Homes 4 Rent, and two others buy up hundreds of hoses over selling price quite frequently. Those properties are "bundled" into packages on stock markets, sold, and the buyer wants higher profit levels. I wondered why housing was going up in price during the pandemic. People weren't working, more than a million died, the housing market should have gone down, not up.

[@twinstar9]

This requires moral education, investment in smaller classrooms and higher pay for teachers, and free public college.

[@gleichenalb]

I have owned my own business for 46 years and as a small manufacturer I remember distinctly the signing of NAFTA. It made me political. Thirty years ago I could see the writing on the wall. I shifted my business to designing and making unique QUALITY product that I sold in my own store. My brand was all about the idea of keeping consumer dollars in the community. In fact 80% of the money you spend locally stays in the community. There’s a high price for low costs, and if you buy cheap you’ll have to buy twice and it’ll end up in the landfill. We have become a throwaway society, wasting resources shipping raw materials to China and having them come back to us a cheap stuff that looks identical in every store.

[@LeftysLefty]

Good for her bringing up concentration as an Antitrust issue. Prior to the Reagan Revolution, Antitrust policy had a focus of maintaining industry structure of many companies to enforce price competition in the marketplace. After 1981, the focus was changed to can a merger result in cost efficiencies meaning cheaper cost to the public. As a result, of course bigger companies can achieve economies of scale - but at what cost as companies achieved that scale by buying up all of their competitors. This economist touches on this - what happens when the only value we consider is cheap price? Look at what happened to a formerly thriving city like St Louis - proud home to a whole bunch of major companies 9f which most have been bought out, taking away social infrastructure such as jobs and demands for goods and services. The problem is that as a former thriving city, billions of dollars of capital investment was put in place for the physical infrastructure that is now completely wasted because those people have left because the jobs aren't there any more. And this pattern has been repeated in city after city across the country. Does anyone ever consider the harm that the economic powers have caused by allowing billions upon billions of dollars of physical infrastructure investment to just be completely underutilized and wasted in so many cities that are basically just dumps now. ( Sorry St Louis - nothing personal) and we have allowed this to happen in city after city because the sole priority is a cheaper price - which this economist brings up They never had a Reagan Revolution in the EU and there the main priority has always been and continues to be achieving the goals of price discipline via marketplace competition to prevent prices from being raised rather than accepting that 1 or 2 single companies will provide lower prices by leveraging their scale. Sure, a big company can maybe produce at a lower cost, but without the discipline from competitors who says they will pass that savings on to the consumer. Every year we hear about record US corporate profits. Gee, I wonder why But tieing this back in to my point about physical infrastructure, small and medium sized cities for the most part in Europe are in much better shape than here in the US - Antitrust policy has for the most part kept the jobs in these cities and so the investments in physical infrastructure are utilized and havent been wasted like here in the US.

[@myindigoblues5796]

Quality over quantity. We don’t NEED all this stuff. Perspective is important, People. We only think we need it because we’re capitalists, but it’s not serving us and it’s not serving the Planet to be this way. Times have changed, folks. It’s time to evolve. Great talk 👏👍

[@bsmithhammer]

Globalization didn't "fail" - the U.S. simply got tired of footing most of the bill. Deglobalization is happening because the U.S. is stepping back from it, and there really is no one else to fill the role, at least on a global scale. And let's not forget - the globalization strategy was first and foremost always a global stability and security strategy, of which economic benefits were significant, but still a by-product. We need to all start thinking very hard about what global stability and security looks like in the absence of this.

[@dandylandpuffplaysminecraf8744]

Hahaha. Best of luck. I make my own soaps and clothes, eat from the garden and have great public schools. ❣️🇨🇦

[@jamesmedina2062]

You have no idea how much we are interdependent. There is really no way to disconnect. This is why it cannot and will not be done even though a country (Russia) is bombing the whole of Ukraine and stealing its women and children. No matter the atrocities committed and China and India's support, have we cut anyone off completely? Of course not! Not even Russia has been cut off. Russia can simply sell oil as refined through India and it can purchase hi tech through 3rd parties.

[@bsmithhammer]

@@dandylandpuffplaysminecraf8744 And you enjoy such a relatively safe existence in no small part due to bordering a country that takes care of your defense, for all practical purposes. And is the basis for much of your country's economy. Enjoy that soap. 😊

[@ninemoonplanet]

Ignorance tells me you don't know what you're talking about. Who came in last to both World Wars? Note: it's not Canada.

[@bsmithhammer]

@@ninemoonplanet And what exactly does that prove?

[@scottprather5645]

Really smart lady she's right on the money we've outsourced our manufacturing and a big segment of the middle class along with it. all based on short-term thinking.

[@mayakc2943]

And arrogance and greed.

[@ubroc]

We outsourced the jobs that don't make sense here and failed to use the increased economic output to keep our workforce aligned with the new economy. We don't need to end the global supply chain we need to implement intelligent tax, anti trust, and industrial policy.

[@pauldray793]

I was displaced from my trade in the great recession in 2008. I am lucky in that I was able to transition and retrain from manufacturing to health services. The way we *abandoned* the American worker is why we ended up where we are today. There was a lot of talk in those days about Mexico, India, and China taking our jobs, but the people who sent U.S. jobs overseas were our own executives here.

[@what8562]

And how many time it was repeated that in retrospect it was automation, not globalization?

[@forbaldo1]

people who sent U.S. jobs overseas were the share holder's

[@mnemosynevermont5524]

Legislation limiting CEO pay and limiting shareholder payouts will go a long way to allowing people to afford to live and buy goods.

[@mnemosynevermont5524]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3-vgJeIgsyUers

[@drazenkasvedruzic3849]

When economies are interdependent there is less iniciative to go to war. Which is advantage of globalization. On the other side, if some disaster hits (pandemic, climate change..) being self sufficient is critical. At least that is what history has taught us.

[@OrigamiMarie]

I don't know, I used to believe that economically entangled economies wouldn't go to war with each other. But that doesn't seem to be stopping Russia. And China seems to be carefully arranging its agreements at that it can detach from the world economy to the detriment of only the rest of the world, and there's nothing we can do about this situation except pull ourselves away or risk sudden ejection from trade with them.

[@kevinjenner9502]

Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen etc

[@alanbudde8560]

Right that's been working soooo well

[@jonathondreyer8644]

That was the general assumption about globalization. But look at the political extremism offshoring of jobs has caused. You take away middle class jobs and send them to places that have no environmental and labor regulations and then tell middle class workers to go be programmers, well that just didn't work out. It led to the opioid epidemic, mental health crisis, deaths of despair, and destruction of middle class families. As long as we convince ourselves that 'cheaper' goods are always better we're just going to be running around putting out fires at home, and may very well lose our democracy to these economic pressures that only enrich wall street and the elites.

[@ubroc]

@@kevinjenner9502 Germany, Italy, Turkey, Britain, Russia, Japan, America, France, Spain etc

[@Pou1gie1]

@12:20 The good side of inflation is that ppl won't be as likely to buy a new product they don't need, which could add to the waste we have in our throw away culture. If your TV or cell still work, you will keep it until it breaks for good. In the past that is how our grand- and great grand- parents did it, and they fixed things before resorting to throwing away.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

Um, uh, inflation consists of people spending more, not less, poor Pougie.

[@ninemoonplanet]

No, it's exactly the opposite. Inflation reduces demand, therefore the production slows. Read John Kenneth Galbraith the "Great Depression". It wasn't caused by stock market failure, but from a lot of people who were mechanized out of work, production lines closed, and the ripple effect.

[@piercebales9546]

O my goodness gracious, you mean putting the economy in the hands of a gang of corporate lawyers is a bad idea? Who could have figured that?

[@mtn1793]

Obviously not many in Congress.

[@bangaattheend6137]

And none who voted them into Congress.

[@HUgdJHf64]

Chinese leadership are mostly engineering graduates. We have lawyers.

[@markromine5103]

This guest needs to be promoted further!

[@createone100]

This is just an outstanding interview. Rana Farooar presents a smart, practical, challenging and hopeful analysis.

[@ubroc]

Naive and short sighted

[@DanFeldmanAgileProjectManager]

Those in government that promoted the policies of globalization in the 1980s and 1990s and profited from them either politically or economically should be held accountable to the public.

[@everybodydies4463]

I'm with you on eliminating 'cheap stuff' from the market. Everywhere i go i see almost everything made in china, which i make a conscious decision to buy only the stuff i actually need. I also want to see more meaningful values added to the stuff i use, the likes of environment protection and decent labor wage. I'm just an average citizen but i'm willing to pay more for the things that really matter.

[@dancoffey7790]

Totally agree. Very inexpensive goods have allowed us to confuse our needs with our wants and unfortunately we think we need everything that we want.

[@ninemoonplanet]

Quality over quantity, and the ability to actually repair what we have. I'm tired of "built-in obsolescence". I want to have shoes that last longer than 6 months, clothes, especially coats that I can keep for more than a year. Phones are now repairable in Europe, but the manufacturers continue to glue batteries in. 🙇

[@lindas.martin2806]

I think we pay too much for many products because of greed of companies. What level of profit is reasonable? For medicine for example? For food? For a decent energy saving heater? A rich person versus a poor person would have very different answers. Greed has taken over the US and unfortunately I do not see anyone with the balls to try and turn it around so people can lead simpler but better lives in terms of safety, healthcare and creative and effective solutions to climate control, for example. Why does government not require all packaging to be recyclable? And not in 10 years, I. Two years? Why do towns like Flint Michigan have sub standard water? Why is the middle class disappearing and wealth growing a,omg a small percentage of the wealthy? I think both parties have done a terrible job of outlining the strengths and weaknesses of US culture, and off investing and rewarding creative solutions rather than leaving our grandchildren to deal with problems that may no longer have solutions.

[@tedh3952]

All of this makes so much sense. Too bad human behavior is controlled by short term profits.

[@ninemoonplanet]

It's not human behaviour as such, it's a lack of understanding that some things are worth waiting for, working for, making yourself.

[@dandy5091]

Wow, if only the average person could watch and understand her, we could have a better world. What a smart lady!

[@DanFeldmanAgileProjectManager]

In the late 1990s in my late twenties I protested against this globalization at the IMF protests in D.C., and there was a huge protest in Seattle (Battle in Seattle). We predicted the collapse of the middle class and the race to the bottom and made the exact same arguments. The media ignored or mocked us. Is she so brilliant or is the population so ignorant as George Carlin frequently made clear in his comedy? The corporate media silenced these arguments at the start of globalization because the business elites profited off of overseas cheap labor.

[@robsant4659]

That’s the real challenge, could not agree more

[@dougc.3998]

There are people, both liberal and conservatives that are starting to realize that the globalization is not the total solution for lifting people out of poverty as promised. I am encouraged by the fact this wakeup call is being received without rancor or accusations of nonpartisanship but actual realization that something needs to be done including looking at how we handle global warming also. The biggest disservice our leaders did to our manufacturing industry was by letting the corporations move offshore to use cheaper labor, which didn't work out the way they wanted because the cheaper labor did not have the educational background to make a quality product that the American laborers had provided. In fact, one of the largest manufacturers of heavy equipment moved some of their manufacturing back to the US. Historically America has built their way out of financial crisis by making products that were needed in the US and abroad. Quality products are the basis for our past success globally. Making a change in quality to save money for the shareholders is the reason we are in this situation we find ourselves in now.

[@julioreija8052]

Monstrously large companies grew and squashed small and midsize business because of two ideological constructs that inspired cannibalistic laws and habits: greed is good & infinite growth is not only possible, but mandatory. Without an ideological change, there won’t be any possibility of adapting our economical laws and behaviours to the real possibilities and needs we face.

[@ninemoonplanet]

Amazon is the worst for cutting out small companies and drowning out others. I stopped buying anything from Amazon, shop locally or buy direct. It's gotten so bad I am learning how to make a lot of my own stuff. Cheap crap that lasts 2 weeks is actually far more expensive in the long run.

[@JasonBoyce]

Manufacturing isn’t going to be localized as long as the cost of oil is still cheap. Companies are making gobs of money centralizing their manufacturing overseas, and until the cost of oil overtakes the savings of that manufacturing, you’re not going to see things come locally. A couple of semi-conductor factories being built stateside is great, but you have the US using MASSIVE government tax subsidies to make chips locally. That’s all well and good, but then don’t complain about socialism 😂

[@jamesmedina2062]

The problem is that over 100 million barrels of oil are produced and sold daily. A ton of oil products are getting consumed and it is only increasing each year. There is absolutely no adherence to global warming abatement targets or common sense. So much oil can only keep the price low and make globalization cheap, freight-wise.

[@ninemoonplanet]

Not everything will or does depend on oil or gas prices. Localized foods can be grown locally, on regenerative agriculture practices, and wood can be grown in agro-forestry, diversified crops, and without any chemical inputs. People can work remotely now, or can become apprentices for green tech, solar panels production, and repairing the things we have so we don't have to replace everything..

[@veronicamaine3813]

Oil is not going to be cheap. It’s that simple. With the end of Breton woods it is going to become more costly and less secure and if you can get it locally you will.

[@joeljong931]

Subsidies may be necessary to create local networks. I think US should build merchant ships again to build Local manufacturing capacity that can grow into different areas. Hope making computer clips locally will do the same here as there are many supporting industries with high pay that are involved in chip making.

[@ubroc]

@@veronicamaine3813 Breton Woods isn't ending anytime soon.

[@e.d.3729]

we will never stop thinking short term. it's a terminal addiction.

[@gregmattson2238]

you know I'm worried about this decoupling. a lot of the reason over the last 30 years we haven't had a large scale confrontation with china and russia was because of large scale trade. Now that its going, there isn't as much of an incentive to play nice with each other. Russia's invasion of ukraine furthers this trend. So we are definiteily IMO headed for a very unstable period here and I hope the wheels don't totally come off the applecart.

[@kevinjenner9502]

China’s past and present conflicts, illegal wars, occupations, coups, proxy wars etc, in Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen etc, are a concern for all of us.

[@jamesmedina2062]

every small and medium sized business has been ignored and shot at. farmers as well. We are 50 years too late for this conversation but the mere fact that you think it might harm us to focus on US made goods just shows how lost everyone is. The reason we should buy a product from China should be because it has been a long-standing tradition there, not because it is really a mass of fragile plastic junk that was produced cheaper there than here. Every country has a worth historically and today. Follow the bouncing ball for the cheapest labor rate is what most if not all global companies are doing not for us but for their bottom line. This does not add to global peace either but adds to unsustainability and more slave labor. Adds to huge carbon use and environmental destruction.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

@@kevinjenner9502 Kevin, China is involved in wars in exactly none of the countries you name. No occupations. No coups. No proxy wars. Your post is completely hallucinatory. Russia is stumbling around in Syria and Ukraine. In the past, Russia could invade Hungary, Chechnya, Crimea. The world is more integrated today, and Russia suddenly runs up against trouble. Things have changed: we're more globally integrated than we used to be.

[@kevinjenner9502]

David Lloyd Jones...You are blind to ironic juxtaposition. Of course this is the US.

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@kevinjenner9502 You are blind to Russia and China's jealousies and global ambitions as well as strong-arm tactics, coups, proxy-wars, etc etc

[@dancoffey7790]

I agree with Ms. Foroohar. What makes me mad is that the supposed educated people in business, finance, and economics couldn't see this coming about 40 years ago. This proves that because someone is educated does not mean they are always the smartest person in the room.

[@martycrow]

Others may have said it but few with the clarity and conviction of Rana Foroohar. She expertly. over the course of this intelligent interview, lays out in simple language the problem, the causes of the problem, and what we can and must do about it.

[@mvs9122]

She is so expressive and clear

[@ubroc]

She speaks with authority, but that doesn't make her POV right

[@lorrainekellerw7090]

Excellent ! Younger generations need to understand this, so they enjoy a more stable, peaceful and satisfying life

[@invidusspectator3920]

This is such a interesting interview. Kind of proves that it's really bad for the global economy to affect countries with very different economic, cultural, material, social and political conditions in which they operate.

[@jefferee2002]

Wow. What an intelligent conversation. We are going through a fundamental shift in our economy. Like back to the 50's. But we, as a nation, need to become self sufficient.

[@pedrolopes3542]

I do not know who is right or wrong about this issue, but I know for a fact that Europe is not over with globalization. It will be interesting to see how the world develops from here on...

[@richardsimms251]

Great interviewer ! Great guest !

[@a.taylor8294]

YES, people, CHEAP shouldn't be your first priority. QUALITY and VALUE are what you should be demanding as responsible consumers

[@hardstylelife5749]

A question: May the two things get eventually along together? globalized distribution and logistical services, combined with local communities/governments. Great interview, thanks for sharing it

[@jimsykes6843]

She's fantastic. Just bought the book.

[@qingzhou9983]

One thing she forgot to explain is China had kept the West inflation down for decade. This benefit is Gone. With the silly tariff, US is taxing the America Consumers.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

Well said. Join Joseph Huether, above, as one of the very few people here who is even faintly sane.

[@richarddietzen3137]

Tariff are not “silly”. Workers whose wages stagnated were incentivized to buy cheaper offshored Chinese production. The US middleman’s economy increasingly benefits the likes of Amazon. Tariffs protect and re-home domestic production to potentially reduce government deficits while also reducing unfair foreign manufacturing.

[@qingzhou9983]

@@richarddietzen3137 If you want the huge inflation, then you can try to decouple from the world. The price increase would be like double or triple. Just checking out what happened to Europe. Global trades did and still is benefiting US. The real issue is beside the low costing of live/low inflation/great economic boom for decades, most of the benefits went to the top 1%. And there is a section of white workers got crashed. So it was a wealth distribution issue. So US is going back to isolationism which has been proven again and again as bad to US over all.

[@UnderTheGoldenGate]

I work in Risk Management. It's a very difficult field and requires both finesse and calling people publicly on their BS. The problem with risk is that nobody wants to deal with it - they want to focus on cutting costs and growing revenue - and getting their bonuses. Risk management is at the bottom of the barrel of corporate priorities, and companies often hire mediocre people in that field on purpose (i.e. to claim ignorance and deflect blame). You gotta wonder how much do we save on a single source supply chain overseas (5%? 10%? 30%? 80%?) and is it worth it keeping that arrangement (vs. multiple sources that result in higher costs). A most critical technique in risk management is to publicly document various alternatives (e.g. high price multiple sources to reduce risk) and force management to acknowledge that they are aware of this and made a decision to not do anything about the risk - in which case they might change their minds, or the Board of Directors and/or some of the management will call people out on that and force them to manage the risk (e.g. by second sourcing, coming up with new technologies, etc.). It is of course very difficult to make this happen without getting fired - so you have to be a bit of a bulldog and also have the support of your immediate managers...which is where finesse also comes in. One of the scariest things is that our government and it's institutions are incapable of managing risk - i.e. in a public forum, the populace and Media will shred you apart if you admit even a single unknown or mistake - hence people cover it up and/or setup their programs so easy measurement of success is obfuscated. And I want to know exactly when a substantial percentage of the semiconductors made in Taiwan will be sourced outside Taiwan in order to reduce our supply chain risk and give China less of an incentive to take over Taiwan.

[@alanbudde8560]

Best analysis of the economy I've ever seen

[@arthurfonzarelli9331]

There should be higher consumer standards as well. Automobile manufacturers for example, design modern cars so that buyers can't fix them without going to a dealer and paying. Appliances are designed to be replaced every year or two. Antecdoctally, I still use an electric hand mixer that my grandmother bought in 1969.

[@johnleahy5853]

I am not an economist, but this interestingly different program kept my attention. Thankyou.

[@RobertIngersoll]

Interesting - I wish there were captions available. It would make it much easier for me to follow.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

If you find it difficult to follow, it may be because she is making no sense whatsoever. She is riffing at random with old whines, only some of which can be dignified as "ideas." And she's making up a lot of falsehoods and seems to think they are facts. Quite specifically, everything she says about US capital flows and overall US employment is 180 degrees wrong. She lives in a dream world of her own imagining.

[@RobertIngersoll]

@@TheDavidlloydjones ha! That may well be the case. Unfortunately I gave up on the video because of my poor hearing. Looking at your previous posts and comments, it looks like we agree on lots of things, so I’ll take your point. Thanks for the feedback! It’s appreciated.

[@jaykay415]

Excellent, excellent, excellent!

[@briangraham1024]

Yup, thankyou Thatcher, Reagan, Hayek, Friedman et al. who led us into this mess.

[@ninemoonplanet]

Interesting thought, but it does make sense. Costs for basics like wages, housing, food, health care have actually been very inflationary. Actual wages have not kept up with the basic costs of school, college, university and especially housing, both buying and rentals. Vehicles too, rose faster than ever before, yet wages remained at 1975 levels. People are worried about inflation now, but it's been here for decades. 🤔 The jobs in trades especially outside the fossil fuel industries, have gone way down, fewer apprenticeship skills, training. An economy grows like a tree, roots (basic wage earnings) must be greater than the monetary value at the top of the tree. Put the money (fruit) overloaded, at the top and the tree breaks in half. Not everyone wants to be, or has the abilities, to be computer engineers, bankers, etc.

[@lupemerritt5522]

Very good !

[@mofongo71]

The "C" in Capitalism is about Competition and not Concentration

[@jayski9410]

I'm old enough to remember when the U.S. economy was mostly decentralized (up thru the 1950's & 60's). Every town had a Main St. with stores for this & stores for that. Lots of small employers, a few big ones, and farms, dairy's, orchards or forests on the outskirts of town. Then came the first shopping malls, then regional shopping centers. Of course the Interstate Highway system, Just-in-Time shipping, personal computing, the Internet - and bam, you've got globalization. I'm just glad I'm living long enough to take the ride back in the other direction as well.

[@janebishop5885]

I can assure you, no one I knew ever thought globalization was a good idea and could easily see where we are right now. The ones who gained were the corprotocracy.

[@Oscoe63]

Despite all the downsides of globalization and mass-consumerism, it's difficult to ignore the fact that it lifted more people around the world out of poverty and into a higher standard of living than at any other time in human history. That said, it's been clear since the economic crisis of '08 that globalization has been in decline, as the.volume of global trade has declined. Multi-polarism and friendshoring are indeed on the rise, but will take time. Politics will never allow globalization to completely go away as regimes rise and fall.

[@DarthPreamp]

What a brilliant woman; she is exactly right.

[@reh331]

Great discussion, and spot on. I too, will never understand the conservative mind. (3:20 - 3:35) - Seeking to destroy the very system that will provide them what they actually want.

[@rc-darkangel774]

This woman is the bomb! Biden needs to get people to see the big picture and tell them pain before pleasure!

[@troywalkertheprogressivean8433]

Biden? 🤨

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

There is no "big picture" here, RC. Everything she says is wrong -- starting with the fact that she's 180 degrees incorrect about how US capital flows go. This is just sloppy, careless nonsense.

[@ninemoonplanet]

You're definitely proving you're not a student of economic systems or supply and demand chains either.

[@rc-darkangel774]

@@ninemoonplanetWere is your proof this woman is wrong? And no i am not going down the cyber space rabbit hole of trading personal insults

[@georgeflitzer7160]

Excellent!!❤❤❤

[@josephhuether1184]

Problems with international supply chains notwithstanding, we already have a significant amount of localism. Most of the USA economy is service based. It is interesting that she brought up 3-D printing of houses. The building fabric that 3-D printing replaced is already…for the moment…sourced in the USA and assembled in the USA… for example, windows, doors, prefabricated roof trusses, floor trusses and plywood and erected locally. What is imported is lighting, plumbing fixtures, appliances and some HVAC…all things you don’t 3-D print. The bottom line is that wages in the “middle” have been flat or falling for decades. There never would have been a populist reaction against neo-liberal internationalism and free trade if income were more evenly distributed. If income distribution disparity was where it was in 1968 we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

Joseph, You are just about the only sane poster among the letter-writers posting here in the past hour. It is a huge relief to have scrolled down far enough to run across you.

[@josephhuether1184]

@@TheDavidlloydjones Thank you. Every now and then that happens…LOL.

[@pn2543]

the coming pandemics and famine and coastal flooding of cities will make all this sound like a quaint clutching of pearls, gird your loins, toughen your kids, plant a vegetable garden on any free dirt you can find, and pray for rain

[@livingintheforest3963]

It’s best to be independent of anything that you are dependent upon. The more independent you are the less you end up disappointed or disillusioned by what it is you cannot get. When you need it.

[@JJJettplane]

This is even great personal relationship advice😊

[@redthepost]

Another bullseye for PBS. Thank you

[@johnmcintyre6687]

I can"t believe you never saw this coming 50 years ago!

[@Leto2ndAtreides]

The thing with compromise is that everyone gets what's most important to them, but no one really gets everything that they want - which is how international deals (or even local deals between distinct groups with their own interests) have to be.

[@vincentanguoni8938]

This is super.. She has ideas!!! I like the idea of doing more business with Canada and Mexico!!! It is not the end of the world!!! These are the best of times!!!! The sixties and seventies were much more tumultuous and we had less of everything!!! Ever own a 57 Ford???

[@williambiagi1386]

... or a 72 Ford Pinto? or a 74 GMC Pacer?

[@fotoviano]

No, if you look historically, past programs haven't brought everyone along. What has happened with globalization is that the middle/working class on whose behalf you imagine yourself to be speaking is now facing what POC have faced for the whole history of this country.

[@bingo1232]

Rana is very helpful. ty

[@randyklepetko6394]

Localization is the key to a resilient economy. A resilient economy is a robust economy.

[@diandenmark]

Local development can also nourish the person to person conversations needed to support liberal democracy and reduce the gaps between political groupings. Not to mention less dependence on large scale vulnerable infrastructure.

[@youknow6968]

Globalisation isn't just about wealth, it's also about meeting of humanity, humanity has always evolved to increase interaction with the OTHER. We have managed globalisation in a lazy manner by not accounting for it's effect on everyone. It's hateful to say globalisation has ended, better terms need to be applied.

[@chrisanderson7820]

Globalisation hasn't failed wholesale, that's like saying "capitalism has failed. Unrestrained and ill-considered globalisation and capitalism has failed but they are still by far the dominantly best ideas. They simply need a smoothing but not overly heavy hand to make them work properly; protective regulations that are actively enforced, anti-trust work to prevent monopolies, analysis of critical no-failure-allowed industries to make sure there is backup in the supply chain. One of the best ways to do this is to have a small government owned enterprise working in each industry, so for example have a small government owned pharmaceutical company that is run on a corporate basis with minimal taxpayer support and it takes up no more than 5% of the market. It has to hire and produce and sell and pay taxes just like its corporate competitors. What this does is it gives the government a window into each industry so they KNOW how much it takes to run said company and know what sort of rules and regs are needed versus restrictive, its actually to the benefit of both consumers and businesses. It also provides a failsafe where if the multinational importing your pharmaceuticals goes MIA when his supply chains collapse, you've got an emergency kernel for expanding local supply until things get back on track globally.

[@John-cg1ex]

The only way we can make the transition to a better is to tax the rich highly!

[@JoeSegal]

A brilliant person and terrific writer. The question is what do we every day people who have been and are the victims of neoliberalism do about this to survive and someday thrive?

[@powellp25]

Excellent interview.

[@emilywilson7308]

What a brilliant woman! I want her for President!

[@karenabel6218]

Friend shoring is a great idea. She has a documentary on Financial Times. Highly recommend watching it.

[@dunhammusicgroup]

Wrong there are Hugh supplies of Lithium in Nevada

[@morebirdsandroses]

Supplies of lithium also being developed in California at the Salton Sea.

[@JAR2.0]

An excellent assessment of a post globalization world. Not an easy subject to address as it exposes the realities that economies are a fluid dynamic which evolves with or without mindful direction. The current trends addressed in this program give evidence that globalization is not a sustainable foundation for a viable economic construct here in the United States. Hard decisions await us and hard times may well result as we pay the price for the distortions that a greed driven globalization created.

[@brachiator1]

Globalization has been the norm since the dawn of human history. To suggest that local and regional economies will magically flourish in some new age is absurd.

[@marjieestivill]

Globalization quickly evolved into simultaneous “glocalization,” a term that is 20 years old. “Homecoming” seems to combine the concepts of regionalization and glocalization turbo-charged with capitalizing on affordable technologies like 3D printing of products.

[@TheCheckit96]

Question for Rana : inflation is supply side inflation..is raising interest rates really the fix? How / what area is it specifically helping.

[@ragnarlothbruk5090]

I wish you all good fortune in the wars to come.

[@kevinjenner9502]

Military Neoliberalism and never ending wars. Afghanistan and Iraq.

[@josephtraficanti689]

When the American people wake up and find that they have been molested, we find they will follow someone with low character. Someone like Donald Trump. Foreign Agent, Fake Federal Official.

[@janedoe3915]

I agree w/her. We need to pass laws which result in increased wages, make it easier to for workers to start labor unions, limit executive pay and stock buybacks, break up all the monopolies and oligopolies/enforce anti-trust laws, make the wealthy and corporations pay their fair share of taxes, reduce taxes for the M&L classes/return to a progressive tax code vs the regressive tax code, move some of the flat taxes back over to being based on income, increase minimum wage and have it increase w/at least inflation each year, return to each class receiving about the same % of new growth per year, etc at the same time or possibly shortly before we make changes which will increase prices. We created the largest M class in the world at the time in the 1950’s&60’s, lowest income and wealth inequality levels, widespread prosperity, and created the M class dream w/FDR’s New Deal, far-left progressive policies, which r the far-left Dem policies that Bernie, AOC, etc support.

[@beerman204]

What role have economists in the USA played over the last 30 years or so?

[@vKarl71]

What is the motivation for the working class to "build productivity" when the economy is structured so that the wealthiest people & corporations skim off all the value of that productivity?

[@ridethepace6005]

The coasts may have seen a disproportionate share of the benefits, but as someone who has lived most of his life in a dying New England mill town, it sure wasn't reflected in communities like mine. My hometown was thriving until GE pulled their jobs to Mexico. Now, we have junkies nodding off at the wheel of their cars in traffic. We have needles in every gutter, panhandling, homeless camps popping up on every inch of public grass. Sure doesn't feel very " coastal " here.

[@roymaduro571]

Great interview

[@AmanpourandCompany]

Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you!

[@scpatl4now]

There are a couple of things here that bother me. First, the government needs to really tighten regulation s on these big financial institutions that use their capital like they are in a casino rather than simple lending. We need to separate banks and investment firms. Second, they don't mention that at least 50% of current inflation is simple price gouging from some of the largest consolidated corporations. Here is how you tell. When a companies profits are rising at 20% more than inflation, they are price gouging because there is no competition (they did mention consolidation...but didn't frame it this way). We also need to shorten the length of copyright and patents. Your lifetime + 50 years is too long for a copyright. Mickey Mouse was created in 1933 and is STILL not in the public domain. Disney is one of the main players flooding Congress with cash to extend copyright. Lawyers might like that but it doesn't help the economy Patent laws are absurd. You should NOT be able to patent software. Software by definition is built on the work of others. We need patent laws that give people a reasonable amount of time to make money off their physical inventions. Also, if the government funds your research (as it does with most drugs that come to market), the drug company should not then get to extort people with a patent. There are so many common sense things to do. For energy independence, I'd love to convert my home to solar, and the Biden Administration did pass tax credits to do that, but my local electric utility penalizes solar by tacking on a fee and not doing metered billing (they have a 'test' program that does it for 5000 people). If you want people to be energy independent, then you need a consistent set of rules and not have them vary state by state set by the for profit monopoly utility.

[@TheCalicohorse]

"Friendshoring is EXACTLY what the NAFTA is supposed to be. The "problem" has been that wages are too high in Canada to do anything here except sell our natural resources.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

So those Honda, Nissan and Toyota factories that came to Canada after NAFTA are all illusions? Thank you. I can't see a single one of them from my window, so you're no doubt correct that they don't exist.

[@TheCalicohorse]

@@TheDavidlloydjones You're right, and I wasn't suggesting that NO cross-border manufacturing wasn't happening or that NAFTA's been a total wash; it's more that we can't compete with countries subsistent-at-best wages and have few environmental laws.

[@dawnemile4974]

Shows who globalization was meant to benefit most.

[@aleazk]

This analysis may be valid for some hard, old-fashioned industrial manufactured goods (e.g., cars). But in the age of internet, and when most of the bigger companies are actually internet-based companies (Google, Amazon, etc.), globalization will only increase. Then you replace human labor with robots, and this tendency will get even more pronounced. Even more, the new technological initiatives are getting so big (AI, quantum computing) that only such massive companies can give themselves the luxury of investing such large amounts of money in such risky projects. The only open problem for globalization I can see is the dependency on basic commodities (soy, lithium, etc.) that, in general, come from unstable third world countries/autocracies. So, the general tendency is towards even more globalization, either you like it or not, and with its good and bad points. Rather than deluding in the end of globalization, it's better to think how you can make the blow that some sectors will inevitably get a bit more smoother a transition.

[@xeon222]

Let's be honest, the concept of economic globalization was the idea(at from the American and European point of view), was to monopolize the World economy with their "superior" name brands of high-quality products . But, along with having companies in Tiawain, India and Brazil manufacturing those products(for cheaper overall cost), they threw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater when those "cheap-labour" foreign companies quickly began creating their own very competitive products.

[@jamesmedina2062]

what do you mean they threw the baby out? in many ways that is wrong. China made stuff and then rose up to become the consumers of our products. They are now a major market for American products. Nobody wants to lose them in any way.

[@MrTodayistheday]

I do not think monopolization was a goal. They just wanted to make money. :)

[@MrTodayistheday]

@Puffin You are giving them far too much credit. They are self-serving. But, not powerful enough to create a monopoly in the USA. In contrast, in Russia or China, the leaders have enough power to authorize monopolies.

[@ubroc]

Globalization has raised billions of people out of poverty and increased econoimic growth while keeping inflation low.