Amber A’Lee Frost: Vulgarity and the Dirtbag Left | Doomscroll

[@nnn-i5y]

I'm not looking for a far left podcast. I'm not looking for a far right podcast. I'm looking for a podcast where I can be gay with my dad.

[@TapetBart]

Hm, all I can off you is the center left podcast The Adam Friedland Show

[@tommolldev]

PodSaveAmerica

[@homosexualbadger]

Ah yes, the Joe Rogan Experience

[@greenvelvet]

Welcome home son

[@BigDome1]

Cheek Clappers

[@GreatLakesFeatherCo]

This youtube series is the real Adam Friedland Show huh

[@YungFondo]

Just wait until they get jake flores and gerby gomo on here

[@ellis0]

Cool Adam next episode

[@Dvbbcsrnevw]

If we got Cool Adam or a serious nick, ill suck anyone

[@apolloforabetterfuture4814]

Adam coping and seething rn

[@ab8817]

meanwhile on TAFS: nick: it's so stupid, there's this guy on the internet, i dont know who he is, just some guy who does streaming on twitch... twitch is obviously owned by the chinese government adam: whats twitch is that like gamestop or something guest: "bruh like deadass i fw bro like that fr my sht like yea sht its good bro fr"

[@GREASYJELLO]

hey it's my best friend Nick Mullen's old roommate!

[@RonaldTrump4547]

If those walls could talk…

[@Gil3490]

who

[@Evike91]

This is not my own original thought but I can't recall who to attribute it to, but the reason why the student protests on college campuses, as inspiring as they may be, CANNOT be the spark for meaningful change is because students are part of the surplus population. They can revolt because they don't have much productive capacity. Capital is not scared of them. I can't take any comfort in the hope that the generation coming up behind me will do what I couldn't. When they get to be my age and have jobs, they'll be just as scared for their livelihoods that they'll hope for the youth behind them to act.

[@paulvangenhassend5146]

those "students protests" just need to lable and think themselves as workes protests.. i mean most students are workers..

[@LiamFarleyMA]

I agree they're not like the same as if all truck drivers or dock workers went on sticker , but the amount of vitriol from politicians and business people and news outlets towards students doing literally nothing was ridiculous. There is definitely a sense from people that if elite educational institutions suffer a political shift on this that it'll have impacts down the line. I concede that those impacts might just be rich people who profit off of constant exploitation being shamed and shunned for it without actual economic change though.

[@spacetimevortex]

so basically i feel like you could have shortened this to “we would need a general strike”

[@seancatacombs]

Statistically the lion's share of them will be deradicalized by their mid 30s with decently compensated email jobs and inheritance of generational wealth. The % of college grads who enjoy either of those is definitely decreasing, but it's still a majority of them

[@LiamFarleyMA]

@@paulvangenhassend5146 i know at Columbia the union wanted to strike but had just got under a contract with a no strike clause

[@Fivehe]

She’s not wrong about the chronically online, but also her podcast is the only reason I ever found out what was happening on Twitter. Chapo is essentially a summary of that week’s Atlantic articles and Twitter beefs. TrueAnon at least alternates between diet Chapo and actual coverage of interesting lesser known history. That’s why you’ve gotta have Mrs. brace Belden on the show

[@LaVictoireRosee]

Yes get Liz on the show !

[@mathisboring123]

He did have Mrs. Brace Belden on the show, their name is Young Chomsky

[@Garrett1240]

Once I discovered Matt christman’s cush vlogs I never looked back towards Chapo, even though it’s often very funny.

[@Ebalosus]

Yeah Liz would be an excellent guest, because she can go into the nuts-and-bolts of a subject without getting bogged down by minutiae.

[@RumHam5570]

@@Garrett1240Cushvlogs is legit, fellow grillpiller.

[@Journeyman107]

Great podcast for those of us who fell down this niche political internet rabbit hole a decade ago and want to take one last look, tie up the loose ends, and gtfo. These feel like exit interviews for me in a very good way.

[@marmar6329]

hell yeah brother

[@streeetlamp]

damn nailed it

[@raaedk]

🔥🔥

[@P_Messington]

I mean, you’re not wrong, but GTFO to where though?

[@ultravioletiris6241]

@@P_Messington real politics rather than political entertainment

[@titussalter8070]

When is the DSA president Nick Mullen going to be interviewed?

[@samsca8529]

It would just be an hour of him talking about Ukraine and comics from 2009 with the occasional “yeah” from Josh

[@rcnash1]

The forklift jobs need to pay living wages

[@Ebalosus]

Here in NZ they do, and the unionised ones pay even more.

[@Amadeus2526]

So build a wall

[@alexc.5204]

They often do.

[@GoDrex]

how much is a living wage?

[@wesleystreet]

@@GoDrex Any wage that allows you to pay your bills including rent and doctors' visits.

[@contentinternational]

Look, as a guy who worked in a warehouse for a while... forklifting is fine, but... wouldn't call it fun.... especially when it's fine wine and the boss lives in one of the USA's richest ZIP codes

[@bigggmoustache8868]

I could not believe how bubble brained of an opener that was. I'm three minutes in and turning it off. This Doomscroll podcast is a bit trash.

[@wesleystreet]

@@bigggmoustache8868 Oh, come on. Any person with a sense of fun would think forklifts are cool.

[@contentinternational]

@@bigggmoustache8868 My guy. There's a lot of stuff to be gained from this interview. I was just trying to point out something goofy in the messaging.

[@obsidiancrow450]

i mean she's a yuppie podcast host. she hasn't worked a real job since 2016

[@brianmeen2158]

Very very few jobs are going to be fun - there’s a good reason they call it work

[@aspenEarthmover]

first 10 minutes felt really good for me to hear because I exactly related to almost everything. I was radicalized online over covid as a young, impressionable homeschooled teen, tried on all the hats, but only through a screen and I never really had many friends irl, and now im just coming out of my teenage years. I still struggle a lot, I still dont have much if any real life friends for a variety of reasons but mainly covid, and spending all my time in weird discord servers, and now because of that im entering adulthood with a major fear of “what if I said or did something horribly wrong”. I just got a therapist and am trying to get involved with more real-life subcultures and communities, also mentioned in this video, according to my interests. Doomscroll is an amazing series so far, and it has genuinely helped me mentally collect and assess the insanity that was the past 6 years for me.

[@ambitionbird]

best of luck man

[@phillip7326]

Nobody in real life will care about anything considered offensive online. Just let it all hang out; you are inherently good enough.

[@CommonScentsAintSoCommonNow]

how many guns do you own?

[@avemazov]

You should read Amber's book! I think it will help you understand why none of the hats fit right, and why you'd never wear them outdoors

[@aspenEarthmover]

@ Which book is it? Also thanks for the rec, ive been wanting to read more!

[@GizmoProfit]

I have literally never seen 2 photographs/videos of Amber where she looked like the same person in both.

[@samsca8529]

Reminds me of how Felix is never at the same weight level in any of his public appearances

[@JohnMoran]

i thought the same

[@achmeineye]

Her voice is the only way i can ever recognize her

[@NeptuneVA]

I swear, Amber shapeshifts for every interview or photo. I'd never be able to recognize her out of a line up.

[@RumHam5570]

She once described herself as resembling Wendy Koopa and that honestly helps.

[@EricDMMiller]

Her face does look like a crude facsimile of a human made from silly putty. So that checks out.

[@arthurs7882]

In the most indescribly odd way she is kind of cute

[@champagnebulge1]

She's an interesting liminal racial space

[@kidluna]

the smoking is catching up with her

[@neostephenism]

To say the Black Panther's weren't good at what they did is quite frankly insane, and revisionist. Yes, there are huge issues with romanticization and nostalgia traps but that comment was weird and incorrect. Also, Angela Davis was not a member of the BPP, her primary affiliation was with the CPUSA.

[@Nikolas123333]

Exactly, if these organizations weren't "good or working" why was so much time, energy and resources devoted by the State to absolutely crush or co-opt them? It is like saying "see communism never took off anywhere else in the world, doesn't work, Soviets lost the Cold War" while ignoring everything the West did to violently undermine every effort and scorch any futile ground for revolution. You can still say "so what, a failure is a failure", but there is a lessons to be learned in identifying what was the "loser shit" and what had worked/could be a popular motivator if re-tool for the present moment.

[@brianmeen2158]

@@Nikolas123333I’m not sure how effective the black panthers were but just because the govt infiltrates your organization - it doesn’t mean you posed a major threat to anything. Go take a look at the fbi agents that infiltrated a tiny militia in I think Michigan a few years back. They’ve also done the same with relatively small white supremacist groups . The motives behind these infiltrations are varied I imagine .

[@grayskyephoto4918]

This is VERY classic Amber behavior. She only knows how to speak in extreme polemical hyperbole.

[@MariaConchitaRivera]

Wait till you hear what this grifter goon said about the Move bombing on Chapo 😢

[@ivecaughtfire7431]

Most of her sentiments in this interview were just blatantly incorrect. Her entire weird "Economism" slant that anything that improves living conditions is worth it, we have to be as pragmatic as possible and as appealing to those of the working class as possible(despite the fact nearly 50% of the proletariat is swimming in false consciousness and in no revolutionary context or mass movement in history did the majority side with those with the proles best interests.All politics are about taking power to change society, change will never be fully accepted who cares, do whats best regardless even if its costly) was ridiculously off-base. Her dumb remark about this "stfu about revolution, you got the New Deal isnt that whats important?" vibe reeks of Liberal means tested gobbliegook that solves no problems historically OR even amount to the improved lives her pragmatism thinks its achieving. Those criticisms of "taking concessions" from a century ago were well founded b/c look at today? Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama etc ALL during those admins those concessions were destroyed with crumbs remaining today. Were getting closer to the Gilded Age every day. Look at the German revolution where a possible success(very close btw) was sabotaged DUE to that supposed pragmatism etcetc. There are SO MANY MORE instances of this idiotic "reactionary populist-Left" perspective of hers that didnt pan out, will never pan out, and serves as an unproductive antidote to REAL effective politics & movement-building for those who are feeling tired or alienated from "their own movement"(what movement lmao, youre a twitter user) and want to disconnect from the only community that aligns with their values and can offer REAL solidarity to build something. Its hilarious that people cant see this shit for what it is. A doomer-ass grift really. It is self-serving in its outcomes for her and for anyone spouting this weird do-nothing perspective that eternally bitches to "real Left-Wing action" about how its X or Y or "too this or that" or "needs to touch grass". With her eyes, you end up depressed, detached from any possible movement, & never satisfied with anything b/c you cant understand these projects are bigger than you and arent meant to comfort your doubts or populist skepticism. These weird tendencies amount to movements or parties or orgs with potential just losing hundreds of members, getting constant negative press from the indie-media THATS SUPPOSED TO PLATFORM THEM(that libs & others use as ammo), and overworked supporters or staff or rank & file getting disenchanted b/c insert-X-complaint isnt IMMEDIATELY assuaged with some dumb platitude or truism that misses the point of doing the work to begin with. These types of people will always yell at you, call you a LARP'r, complain about your rhetoric/tactics/slogans/etc, and endlessly scream its never gonna happen youll achieve nothing change cant be physically manifested. Revolution is a joke, power-grabs are impossible and pipe-dreams, organizing for anything other than policy is a waste of time blahblahblah dozens of writers & leaders of REAL movements have written endlessly on these tendencies & with their own movements proven how wrong these criticisms are. These people always gripe & try to drag you down into their own nihilistic political-bed-rot until one day funnily enough, material conditions drastically worsen(Civil Rights Mvmt, Queer Mvmt, Vietnam, OPEC crisis, NAFTA, WTO, Dotcom bubble, '07-09 Sub-Prime Crisis, Occupy, BLM, Eurozone/Debt Crisis, BLM again, COVID etc) and SUDDENLY the environment is ready for a true, Marxist-led or Anarchist-led, working class movement whether party or org lead and if youre doing the work right you will be ready to take the opportunity Capitalism gives you ever 6-8 years(roughly) to push the issues people need solved to the front. I know this was long and doesnt matter but please anyone that reads this dont lose hope & motivation, we are all we have.

[@cardinalbeast24]

Dude. You’re crushing it, so high quality, so consistent. Glad to know who you are now and your work

[@ItsJustLuke48]

people in real life: hey man how are you

[@samsca8529]

Well yeah it’s called doomscroll for a reason

[@voodoochili12]

No no you don’t understand, you have to bloviate and make sweeping generalizations about the culture and youth

[@alfredklek]

With all due respect, Amber is my favorite Chapo host. I love listening to her talk.

[@TheFamousMockingbird]

I am partial to matt then amber, but for some reason amber gives me the vibes of just daria or some shit, always looking for some shit to criticize. She is better when building ideas instead of just tearing down dumb ones from people who are probably dumb.

[@checkdestroy]

Amber leans way too hard on basically vulgar workerism. It should be obvious now that attaining any improvement for native workers' rights in the West is going to be partial handouts that ultimately don't do much in the face of a new economic crisis, but because we're so starved for any progress many people will take these handouts and then fall in line for whatever war or conflict is going to break out in the next decade or so. Any leftist who doesn't have a more global perspective on this stuff is increasingly just useless, and Amber's moment was in 2016 and ended in 2020. The pandemic and the relative decline of Western power means nothing she says here is relevant as the ruling class is trying to march towards disaster in every aspect. In just a few years, people like Amber will be talking up the weapons programs because it means jobs for US workers.

[@andyfartin]

I definitely recommend Amber’s Dirtbag Essays. Especially for the aging millennial getting walloped by their own introspection.

[@chris.scott510]

I feel seen by that second sentence

[@Juck_The_Fews]

​@@chris.scott510 sentences that start with "I feel seen" are gay

[@plutarchtheoligarch1657]

​@@Juck_The_Fews Cool. I'm gay with my dad.

[@hrs1414]

@@plutarchtheoligarch1657same dude!

[@tomlotti240]

After hearing a few of her discussions over Mark Fisher (RIP), decided to pick up one of his books as I got more curious about him and what he had to say. Ms. Frost is one of my favorite social/political commentators/critics.

[@spacetimevortex]

to clarify i DO like aspects of this podcast a LOT, its just the formula of “what is YOUR take on the solving of all of our existential issues” and also only having like professionals and academics on does sorta combine for a super mixed bag of very important insights as well as complete mind boggling insinuations about kids who these guests don’t spend any time with

[@seancatacombs]

A lot of the insights are good, but there's definitely a tendency to linger on the topic of Wayward Boys/Men. More specifically, that lonely extremely online boys who are just trying on hats are artificially increasing the ranks of the right, and - I think more than one guest has insinuated at this point - inflating the ranks of the left too. I understand the sentiment that these younger dabblers are neither loyal nor reliable, but don't you have to start somewhere?

[@diepie5144]

I would like to point out that just about every guest has been trying to speak about more than they had real experience with. These are classy people, all of them feel (to me) like they think they know a little more than they actually do know.

[@transientland9932]

To be fair Joshua had a previous podcast series that did one-off interviews with these sort of radicalized online teens/young adults

[@jjmjkmlmkbhhbjklll4297]

Professionals and academics? Where? It's all podcasters and KZbinrs lmao.

[@mangofox1]

Yeah I seen a couple episodes that are interesting but it does start to feel a bit navel-gazey and a little like falling into the trap that is often described in these episodes of ‘intellectualizing politics n being too online instead of being strategic, taking action w your community & organizing’.. etc. But tbh I think part this is also just reflective of how there’s no real organized left like they constantly mention. So we just get together n talk about stuff together and I guess that’s the ‘left’

[@IMMAOILMAN]

Something important to remember about early American Punks (late 1970s-early 1980s) is that a lot of these people weren't really political, at least at the start of the movement. For the most part, they were literal teenagers who were sick of how stale contemporary culture was at the time - so they decided to make their own. If you ever manage to track down a punk from that era, that's usually what they'll tell you. Penelope Spheeris' documentary "The Decline of Western Civilization" (1981) also offers a pretty candid look into the chaotic mindset of the American punk scene, specifically the Los Angeles and Orange County, CA punk scenes. Early punks were unprincipled and blindly anti-establishment; it was the opposite of the clean-cut image that music trends like Disco projected (Disco itself being a watered-down version of Funk and other byproducts of black youth subculture). Punks in the particularly nasty scenes like Huntington Beach were infamous for firebombing peoples' garages for the hell of it. Sure, many of these kids would grow up to become Anarchists, Feminists, and so on as they moved onto more mature subcultures like the burgeoning Goth and Postpunk scenes. Some of these kids were also Nazis who went to punk shows to fight people (these were the dipshits who helped kill the punk movement). But one thing you'll notice watching Spheeris' movie is that most of the kids she interviews are just bored and frustrated teenagers looking for a creative outlet. Much of that creative energy today has been outsourced online to social media, addictive video games, and other slop shops. But the kids are still bored and frustrated. Someone on the right - Steve Bannon, who else knows - knew their history and correctly identified this dynamic in the youth culture of the 2010s. And that's why we now have political movements disguised as brands. A lot of the angry, frustrated kids from The Decline would likely be twitter-addicted rightoids today, or they might be swindled by tankies or some other brand of anti-establishment slacktivism. It's pretty despairing to think about, honestly, because it means hopping back offline is probably one of the most revolutionary things you can do now. And that's just because it's really hard to do so when social media and other addiction machines have their hooks so deep in our flesh.

[@CptKosher]

Great points there. I haven't watched this whole thing yet but I agree with the idea that searching for outlets offline not only feels novel now but necessary sometimes.

[@DrLimbic]

This kind of analysis undermines the validity of anti establishment feelings in the youth today who are doing far worse than their pampered and bored boomer parents did at that age.

[@IMMAOILMAN]

@@DrLimbic The original punks were not Baby Boomers, and they were definitely NOT pampered. Ignoring the discontent of youth from the 1970s-80s is what allowed conservatives to so easily weaponize discontent in the 2010s, and it's a big part of how we got to where we are today.

[@brianmeen2158]

It is very difficult to tell terminally online folks to put phone down and go outside. They are lost without apps and ability to text .. they just don’t ride bikes and build tree forts and explore like older generations. It will be interesting to see if they can break the internets hold

[@MattHrela]

To much reading

[@sunnymon1436]

Techno Utopianism under Capitalism, is just Capitalism. That's the problem with Capitalism, it's Capitalism all the way down - the prevalent hegemony usurps all other value systems it can, those it can't don't get noticed or essentially don't exist. This was the point Marcuse made in 1 Dimensional Man.

[@nonesuchone]

claiming “3 Kooks in a Maoist Cult” (3KMC) for my new band; consider this internet poor-man’s copyright 🙌

[@sunnymon1436]

21:35 Lady, unions were fighting for workers rights in the 1920s - no one's alive who remembers the time before it, because before it was like, dying in a coal mine, being mutilated by industrial machinery and the fired for damaging the machine, and being a slave. This was stuff Karl Marx complained about about the 1800s. That the point of the forbidden subject most schools don't teach: Academic Labour History.

[@samsca8529]

I don’t think she would disagree with anything you said here man

[@raeroa7982]

You really need to read about her for 15 mins to see she not only agrees with you but has done 100x more in real life for those causes and more

[@levibetz6211]

I paused my current pod to tune into an Amber pod

[@MichaelWadman-ys2rs]

When it comes to labor and the American politicial parties just ask 1 question "which party will repeal Taft-Hartley?" Since the answer is neither labor will find no real allies in politics here. It will be a real struggle but labor has to go it alone.

[@hrs1414]

I agree 100% the left abandoning its traditional base (labor, like you said) was the death knell of the party. It blows my mind that the Teamsters president spoke at the RNC.

[@SherbertLW]

Really interesting point about teaching boys :) I've always thought that it would be nice to work with boys. I'm trying to get into teaching, but if I don't like it I'm thinking of trying out some form of social work. I'm a woman but I've always felt very boy-coded (not in a trans way more in like a traditional presenting hyperactive ADHD way, definitely the family Bart Simpson). The brashness of boys has always felt deeply relatable to me, and I appreciate you pointing out the positive side of this trait. I want to just say what I mean, and be free to be wrong, to get defensive and then apologize later, and be angry sometimes. This is just a part of being human and lots of space is left open for these feelings for boys and it makes them endearing. I want the next generation of girls to be afforded this space as well, I want more brash women because trying to repress these traits exhausts me every day.

[@brianmeen2158]

I was shocked when I saw how few male grade school teachers and therapists there are. There are more female fighter pilots than there are male kindergarten teachers .

[@wesleystreet]

I knew Amber was from Indiana like me but I didn't know we went to the same commuter school. Troops, Ex-Cons, and Single Moms, Go Jags! (Note: that commuter school was the Indianapolis campus of Indiana University which is a huge biotech and medical school.)

[@Spartoksilverhand]

She’s from Noblesville I think

[@terryhughes7196]

And it has a good law school.

[@alexjohnson9798]

Amber has a much better answer to the YMQ (young man question) than most people on the left who maintain their scolding nature with regards to this stuff.

[@spencer8218]

The answer to the YMQ is a national jobs program- especially one that involves travel and barracks living. We've got a civilization to build.

[@paulmaartin]

​@@spencer8218you must be a leftist

[@bjolofthoth1815]

"more slop"

[@molochfrolics8443]

less scolding more scalding

[@Vancelle]

​@@spencer8218 we need a new deal to build the country back. A federal jobs program to build the infrastructure we need.

[@510SPINESPLITTA8]

We love Amber, don’t we folks? Some say she was the best Chapo.

[@PeterBondeVillain]

Love Amber, great to see her on here! I really recommend reading her book Dirtbag, it made a big impression on me

[@fiji2-w6r]

i feel like these takes are just kinda stuck in 2019. which i get, because she was the thought leader during that time, but your analysis must grow and mature right? i think that it is entirely likely that wokescolding lead to a lot of guys turning to the right, but at this point that kind of progressive, fourth wave feminist, intersectional leftism is bound to universities and online spaces that are largely ignorable except when they act out, which is increasingly rare. we live in a climate where younger people turn to established right wing, even fashy, subcultures without any input at all from angry blue hairs.

[@brianmeen2158]

Who are the biggest intersectional, feminist, progressive creators on KZbin?

[@GaigeGrosskreutzGunClub]

​@@brianmeen2158 the Adam friedland show

[@Jerseystructureunderboss]

I love Amber. The chapo guys (with one particular) can be so snobby without her or Matt on

[@GreatLakesFeatherCo]

I've never gotten snobby from Felix or Will

[@lokaiya]

I don't know about snobby but will felix and chris have certain lib reflexes that aren't as thoroughly suppressed as matt's or amber's

[@GreatLakesFeatherCo]

@@lokaiya ok

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

Neoliberalism is over, it has already collapsed. What comes after might be better or worse, but it’s no longer neoliberalism. One interesting thing about Fukuyama is that he’s a Hegelian; not a Marxist or right-wing Hegelian, but a liberal one. The “end of history” thing is a Hegelian concept.

[@AmodinAM]

This podcast has become my favorite in past few months. Why its being uploaded to Pod apps in a slower pace than to KZbin? Thank you very much for your deep and forward thinking approach and bringing such fantastic guests.

[@TheFamousMockingbird]

28:17 I feel like the thing people were pissed about was like O'Brien essentially sucking off people like Josh Hawley and Vance as if they are labor friendly. I mean even the fucking VP of the teamstears called him a turncoat afterwards. Not just the social media dude, but like the second in charge was like that was disgusting.

[@WhenItsHalfPastFive]

"have em drive a fuckin forklift, it's fun". Yea the salary and future prospects aren't fun though. Email jobs either make you work a lot or very little. But throughout all that, the pay is generally better, and the learning curve and effort is ultimately lower. Can't blame people for wanting a better deal. Forcing them to work a different job is certainly an idea, but not a good one

[@THEMATTHIAS225]

The implication with the forklift/real job thing is also to make the more "heard out" portions of the country understand what that kind of work is, and facilitating more acts of solidarity because people are like "damn this shit fuckin sucks."

[@WhenItsHalfPastFive]

@@THEMATTHIAS225 "damn this shit sucks" and "drive a forklift, it's fun" are two contradicting messages though.

[@GreatistheWorld]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive see what you’re saying but nah. Driving a forklift is fun but working in a warehouse sucks. A lot of shitty jobs have genuinely satisfying tasks

[@THEMATTHIAS225]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive Driving a forklift itself is fun, but the depth of the conversation is more than just the one little joke, it's broadly about the alienating effects of unproductive labor and "email jobs." It's something she's discussed on podcasts elsewhere and her writing.

[@stephenharperisgay]

​@@THEMATTHIAS225came here to clarify this but you beat me to it. Some office-type jobs need to be done but there's a lot of bureaucratic abstraction in jobs that result in cosmically unproductive work. I've had one of those jobs. I was doing data entry work work orders. Basically convert a purchase request into an order in a system as a middle man between two internal employees. Eventually the department was scrapped because it was a useless step. There are a lot of those inefficiencies in an office environment, because a lot of incompetent ass kissers end up in middle management.

[@SoftFall]

Damn, this show is *so much better* when the guest is someone with an actual political opinion they want to express. I can appreciate the desire to keep a variety of guest positions but some of those early eps really turned me off when Joshua was visibly working hard just to keep the conversation flowing with a mostly reactive guest (cough, McCullough, cough)

[@GreatLakesFeatherCo]

JJ is a total tard and was a bad guest for this pod

[@Nikolas123333]

It is incredible how Amber consistently whips back and forth between insightful observations and absolutely dogshit out-of-touch takes. It is amazing and baffling, like having one finger on the pulse and another up the ass. She loves to shit on Abbie Hoffman, but her and the Chapo pals have been just as awful for the left moment - totally ineffective and self-satisfied navel gazing. (Except for Matt Christman, his voice is missed). I felt bad that Josh actually took the time to read her book. But great interview and episode. As another commenter said, an excellent exit interview for a chapter of left "politics" I hope we have graduated from. The best lesson being, there never was a left all along. There is no left movement. If we want one we have to be build it. But for the love of God think for yourself, and don't just listen to this women and the rest of the Twitter revolutionaries. Unironically, "don't trust anyone over 30". (Which she misattributes to Hoffman when it was Weinberg) If I have to hear Catherine Liu drone on about the PMC and Amber about Unions from such self-important and reality-disconnected, 5 years behind the times place while criticizing everyone else as being out of touch and myopic, I will shove my head through a brick wall.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

She really is a confusingly mixed bag. I find myself genuinely wondering how much history she reads, because she seems to bottom out pretty quickly when the referent isn't a mainstay of midcentury "alternative" literature. I've heard her use that one Hunter S. Thompson quote at least half a dozen times over the years.

[@mynciee]

I don't get the sense that this interview was out of touch and myopic, I think it was thoughtful in discussing the times we have come from and where we are now.

[@samsca8529]

I’m gay with my dad

[@Nikolas123333]

@mynciee I agree that it was an interesting discussion. She goes from good to bad/frustrating/wildly wrong from sentence to sentence, minute to minute. And yes, I feel like it was discussing our times adequately, overall a good interview with lots of think on. But she is very much locked into a bubble that allows her to confidently be wrong and paint broadly, stuck in the past that never really existed how she describes, suggesting alternatives/solutions for today that aren't very viable in world we live in. She'd do well to listen to how young people are describing their own plight and limitations seen through Josh's work, but I find her point of view seems deeply incurious and more interested in supplying her takes from within her arm's reach of understanding. It is her becoming Boomer.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

@ I mean, I think her recommendations are essentially correct, but she has this blasé complacency about them I wouldn’t trust from anyone.

[@Jon-ie2qm]

“The only reason you’re able to hold this opinion is because you are not around the people it would affect” ……Hot damn……. 37:01

[@xsxejx]

She’s criticizing online people. No one serious thinks this. She’s criticizing fake straw men

[@hunterlanders5566]

Josh citronella good job. I heard there's a new up and coming center left podcast worth checking out. Also ambers book is really good, her and Matt were always my favorite real people because they're that Midwestern sort of freak I am.

[@RoshDroz]

This is the woman who single handedly kept nick from ending himself through his 20s. Bravo

[@dgilmorexu]

Can’t wait for the Virgil Texas episode next!!!

[@cartermize6651]

They have to find him first

[@TheWilsones]

​@@cartermize6651 He went night boating.

[@deathgripsisokay47]

they have to lure him in with a 16 year old girl

[@MattHrela]

​@@deathgripsisokay47dude that will actually work lol

[@LaVictoireRosee]

Can we get the audio on Spotify please 🙏

[@xXBballBoiXx]

DO THIS!

[@AaronRKC]

And Apple Podcasts pls.

[@4evveg]

The complete sense of disconnect I got watching these people discuss "reality" without talking about the environment, pollution, population overshoot, global debt load, etc. is wild... It's almost like this conversation is being layered onto a 1950's America where picking the right political labels or theories was the crucial to a lasting societal cohesion. The movement towards unions is great (although child labour laws are being degraded) and fighting for each other is crucial but thermodynamics are going to swallow our expansionist economies whole and pretending that isn't the shadow bearing down on us all is just ideology as a forward-facing nostalgia trap.

[@foodchewer]

Based.

[@DunderMifflinTbaum]

Amber is like an NYT op-ed columnist, she just sort of vaguely refers to things or people or groups, never really any specifics. Like - what concessions did JD Vance make to Sean O'Brien? lol

[@samsca8529]

You’re trying too hard

[@coda-n6u]

Almost like there are different aspects of reality

[@brianmeen2158]

@@coda-n6uyeah it’s almost like different people have much different mindsets and perceptions of reality

[@timothybell5698]

This is like that episode of It's Always Sunny where the people talking in rural American accents turn out to be a family of Asians.

[@vincentkuertz3112]

"people like the Black Panthers because they lost and they love to romanticize losers" ... Proceeds to romanticize the American labor movement for an hour.

[@margonuts]

why would she say that oh my god

[@bingchilling666]

Labor movements made lasting, real material achievements like the 2-day weekend. Black Panthers fed poor people and did community stuff but never achieved any real power to leverage.

[@asdfkgkspr284]

@@bingchilling666 lmao they did good over a hundred years ago and now get back to work when the president says so

[@margonuts]

@@bingchilling666 that’s simply not true. their social programs uplifted the Black community in ways that no major political party or non-Black activist group was doing at the time. Black people in poor areas having access to food and education is powerful. The Black Panthers cop-watched, kept members of the Black community alive. that is change and that is power.

[@bingchilling666]

@ Exactly, "community stuff". They built an effective mutual aid(charity) network, but when the Panthers ended, so did the mutual aid network. Everyone knows helping poor people survive is badass, and church groups today do the exact same thing as the panthers all the time, it just doesnt build class/labor power to leverage against the ruling class.

[@radiofreered]

I want her to hear me out and tell me how I'm wrong

[@fashbasher2120]

GUYS! SHE'S NOT CHINESE! STOP TYPING "HELLO SNOW BLOSSOM"

[@GaigeGrosskreutzGunClub]

Ummm

[@vitorafmonteiro]

@@GaigeGrosskreutzGunClub It's an eye shape and assumptions joke. Nvm, let the yellow fever brigade be, and walk away calmly.

[@AJ-gv2hj]

Amber A’Lee Frost this lady is spot on with this shit. I never checked out chapo but she sure does say stuff that makes sense. Interviewer was fantastic also you can tell when someone is interviewing with genuine interest hats off to yall.

[@zunuf]

I find this pretty shallow. I am someone who was deprogrammed from being a Trump supporter. I think Elle Reeve's book "The Black Pill" has more insight.

[@michaelslowmin]

Amber is spot on about Sean Obrien talking at the RNC. Leftists losing their minds about that was stupid af.

[@j0hnicide]

don't forget that sean obrien still has racial discrimination allegations from within the teamsters well before his rnc speech. the republicans can fucking have him for all i care.

[@Anarcho420ism]

amber unblock me please

[@ritardstrength5169]

I hope she reads this bro

[@MattHrela]

She will not have sex with u, stop bothering her

[@darthnephilim]

Good luck king

[@MetalheadSapling]

GSH

[@hunterlanders5566]

>sees name. Sorry bro. She ain't gonna

[@theviolent90s]

We’ve been saying 30 is the new 20 for quite some time. There’s a dark side to that. That means 25 is the new 15. Wrap your head around THAT. I saw an adult female who couldn’t subtract 3 from 7. The freaking RIGHT didn’t do that. Know what I mean?

[@hrs1414]

4

[@RootinrPootine]

She’s right, we used to have sports and music

[@samoto22]

Bringing back manufacturing has to do with great power competition, not labor. The United States can no longer guarantee the security of international trade. Look at the Houthis blocking shipping in the Red Sea, Iran in the Persian Gulf, China in the South China Sea.

[@TheFamousMockingbird]

also the owners of the manufacturing factories are probably hedge funds

[@samsca8529]

It has everything to do with labor

[@chicomojo]

It's amazing to believe that the miniscule amount of successful "re-shoring" which has happened took place for any reason other than to do with great power competition and issues of capital flight and tariffs

[@IrrationalExuberance]

So many people commenting on Amber's race, just like Jason joked about. Guys, Google "epicanthal fold" and learn. Remember Bjork? A'lee is also a Norman name, the Normans were Vikings. Solved.

[@buriedintime]

i wish more young people would get into the trades.. electrician, plumber, carpenter etc.. a good option for lot's of young people.. things badly needed in the USA and you can skip the whole college thing and debt trap.. and make good money after apprenticeship. but even while apprenticing the wage is good.

[@MattHrela]

My drug addict cousin makes over 100k a year as an electrician and wastes it all on heroin

[@hrs1414]

@@MattHrelahell yea dude my cousin makes $40k working security and wastes it all on meth lmfao

[@Louie_The_Dago]

It's interesting Amber has had a whole real life before Chapo. It makes Felix and Will even more annoying. Two trust fund babies who couldn't be bothered to ever participate in any social effort

[@GaigeGrosskreutzGunClub]

God, Felix is so unfunny

[@Louie_The_Dago]

@GaigeGrosskreutzGunClub A product of Jewish inbreeding

[@Eternity909]

This might be becoming my favourite centre-left talk show. Also I’m gay.

[@jayveerisdabest7500]

First! do you have enough clout to get Zizek on?

[@kelvinthomas6738]

Zizek will talk to anyone with a mic

[@rpemulis]

you could probably get zizek in an interview by bribing him with 4 hot dogs, so i bet citarella does.

[@arthurs7882]

​@@rpemulisand so on And so forth

[@calzonelover3950]

I have this joke, you may have heard me say it before

[@arthurs7882]

@@calzonelover3950 thomething thomething radio yerevan

[@handitover.]

loving the more comfortable looking chairs

[@enriquemiguelez]

no one clever point was made, no one unique thought was established during this vacuum of a conversation... just acting cool is not intellectualism!

[@camhamster3891]

She's like an immature Catherine Liu

[@Reggles97]

Vacuum of a conversation ahaha spot on. This whole interview was so dumb

[@ultravioletiris6241]

I think that acting cool is definitely what most of these individuals do most. Hence why the format of the show is just chumming about rather than making interesting points

[@regressionbegins]

I want to know Amber’s favorite bands back in the day

[@alexandrerichard6057]

Don't expect the left to shine with the same veneer as the right. The right has the media moguls on its side, the right has politicians on its side. To the point where it's easy to confuse this cultural pablum of right-wing, pro oligarch ideas as left since no one had a proper point of reference in mainstream. The left first has to transcend the mainstream's conditioning of reducing it to the boutique activism of identity politics. The left has to embrace class struggle as its main subject. MLK had his socialism scrubbed off in history books and the IWW got smashed by the state because those were getting too effective at conveying the message. Find what the establishment will be quick to demonize, and you're getting warmer...

[@alfgwahigain5544]

Amen. The left being vocally pro-union and busting misinformation about organized labor would make them for the working class, but much of the working class believes that unions are bad because that's what the power structures feed them.

[@average3970]

congrats Josh this is the best podcast series at the moment

[@shanewilliams5150]

Elder scrolls oblivion: waifu edition

[@printisdead1983]

Ya ever notice theres no such thing as after school programs anymore, boys and girls clubs anything like that,

[@sonicaids]

I love Amber

[@davesheehan7889]

41:00 “Aight I’ma head out…” -SpongeBob

[@MelvinXVIII]

The reference to a punk band in Cincinnati that would not play in Indiana hit me in my music nuts.

[@davidkite7529]

Amber's always been my favorite Chapo host

[@dyscostic]

In twilight’s glow, where whispers weave, Amber reigns, based queen of the Sami, With grace like shadows on the steppe, Priestess bound by ancient depth. Her eyes hold secrets of the earth, Stories sung in wind’s soft breath, Birch bows loose as she glides, A dance of fire, a spirit unconfined.

[@funkymunky]

Okay, ChatGPT.

[@lindylindylindy]

Damn Matt is and was really the whole intellectual core of Chapo. No Matt no Chapo imo

[@samsca8529]

Amber was good too but yeah Matt was the core

[@checkdestroy]

Amber was good solely for calling out SJW and radlib hypocrisy. On everything else, she takes the position of "what would the median noble savage Joe Rogan fan think about this" which is a completely stupid way to look at things.

[@Ebalosus]

@@checkdestroy it's a shame she hasn't said anything _really_ based though, because you can definitely feel she wants to whenever a woke wrecker comes up in conversation.

[@chicomojo]

​@@checkdestroy My sense from the podcast was that Amber's personality got defined when she was the only person from a working class or genuinely poor background among her middle class-to-wealthy Brooklyn social milieu. The "working class whisperer" thing still seems to works on them, but once you break outside that bubble, it's completely out of touch.

[@curtist358]

Is this from four years ago? Her insufferable shtick is like Chappelle still doing trans bits, just lazy. Who knew we needed a public works jobs program so lonely boys (and girls!) could gather enough courage and learn to drive a forklift? wtaf?

[@ultravioletiris6241]

Borderline conservative at this point since thats just an FDR thing from 80 years ago

[@samsca8529]

It’s so obvious who’s an actual leftist and listens to this show and who’s just an over critical contrarian

[@samsca8529]

@@ultravioletiris6241That’s not what conservatism is. Conservatism isn’t just anything that’s old

[@ultravioletiris6241]

@@samsca8529 let me guess, you’re an “actual leftist”?

[@MadJackChurchill1312]

Would be cool if she ever saw the irony in how she talks about these topics. She’s paid to be an online person, complaining about how online everyone is.

[@alexberkowitz5897]

Yo you think everyone else who thinks like her just gets off line so we never hear about it….like they become normies?

[@concertconnect6256]

This really summarized a lot of the cogitations I’ve had surrounding contemporary leftist modus operandi since I entered college and how I grapple with being someone on the left who really cant see myself in modern leftist ‘spaces’. Truly great stuff keep it up!

[@gcmitri]

This is a fantastic series Josh! Brace Belden? Yung Chomsky? Amber A’Lee Frost? Excellent work. 😌

[@theamazingblazinggamer9916]

Loving the series as it forces some sort of engagement out of my mind, but could a fellow get where that intro riff came from?

[@tofubutcher7456]

Matty Healy then Amber? Nick Mullen imminent

[@LanceBakerActor]

Love the editing btw

[@joshuatxuk]

1:06:00 - A sort of anti-hyper-online thing I enjoy is going on big cruises ships. I've noticed how much I've enjoyed talking to strangers on those and they are a pretty diverse cross-section of the American population that are mostly in the same class. It's not a perfect environment but it's detached completely from more arbitrary framework of geographical regions, urban vs. rural, etc. It's something elected officials should be forced to do in order to actually talk to real people. On top of that the ships themselves are sort of absurd spectacle of late-stage capitalism to behold.

[@z0uLess]

"look out for those that dont have friends" ... how are they supposed to make friends then?

[@FrenchDanceParty]

Yeah, she didn't expand on that at all as to why you need to pay attention to those kinds of people. The interviewer doesn't really do a good job of picking her brain.

[@JamesWalker-ky5yr]

She sounds a lot like Christman, organizing must be about common purpose that isn't rent seeking, and BTW, take the punks bowling.

[@arthurs7882]

Josh asks some quite incisive questions.... Truly the Piers Morgan of our time 😂

[@sighswoon]

love how often she mentions hats.... love it...

[@Garrett1240]

Love her dearly, but then again I’m chronically online.

[@aaaa-fq1ue]

Everyone in the comments is too aware I'm scared

[@MGWorldwide]

I love Amber so much she's the coolest

[@robthequietoriginal]

subscribed at 23.9k subscribers.

[@lasal8613]

58:41 Breaks down here for me. She says Nazis created industry, she said she was deindustrialist, but thinks we're too diverse to replicate, so we should have "piecemeal" change. We need a platform, a party, an aesthetic we need it all.

[@blehbleh9283]

Liz from TrueAnon and Matt from Chapo would both be great (when Matt is healthy and able)

[@marcusnelson7026]

Dirtbag is a fun read, with just enough big words to make you feel like you're learning something.

[@Rory-gy3ed]

Gooning to this

[@yusofplayed]

lmaooo

[@ghostlyhand]

Ok, so correction: Robin DiAngelo was PAID 15k to be on Matt Walsh's mockumentary thing "am I racist?". He interviewed her and convinced her to give his black producer some money because "if you support reparations, you should be cool with just giving a black person some money right now", but she initially did hesitate (because it was a weird moment) and only gave the producer 30 bucks cash. She actually took the 15k she got from Matt Walsh and donated it. She just got caught in walsh's troll trap. It's interesting that Amber remembers/relates the story in a way that makes DiAngelo seem really crazy.

[@TWFarr]

Jesus.

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

This show is amazing!

[@antondalemma5484]

The book is great but the dot connections, the real wisdom, is found in Amber's interviews. Catherine Liu's "Virtue Horders" is similar. The book is terribly academic while her interviews are far better translations into 'common' language; far more revealing and accessible.

[@commenter381]

I love her 😌

[@jaggedtoaster3013]

Adam Friedland next guest??

[@TouchDirt]

Geordie Greep when??

[@panicnow14]

Amber is right about the jobs. Gotta keep your boots and your gear nice and clean for when da jobs come back. Ya know, Cuomo said it might be another three, four months before da jobs come back. Where's my girlfriend? I dunno, I haven't seen her in six months. I'm too busy being self-pissed.

[@lmackenzie9198]

Hey pal I*m with the union

[@panicnow14]

@lmackenzie9198 I got a problem with like... My attitude or somethin'. It's like I'm self-pissed.

[@hrs1414]

@@panicnow14im pissed off, but at myself?

[@hrs1414]

This is my all time favorite cumtown bit lmfaooo

[@panicnow14]

@@hrs1414 It'sh like I'm pished but I'm too tired to be pished, ya know??