Ambisonics in Ableton Live 10 Tutorial Part 3: Monitoring with Waves NX

[@michaelgwagner]

Hi everybody, first of all, thanks for all the nice comments. This is greatly appreciated. I have not been able to do much with this channel last year, mainly because I spent a substantial amount of time converting all classes I teach into a remote delivery format. I will start posting new videos soon. The recurring MenuBus question is one of the first ones I will address. Stay tuned.

[@D5x610]

That would be much appreciated. I just bought the head tracker which is now on sale for $60 in a bundle with the mix room software (from Waves website). They apparently dropped the price to help people out since the pandemic. Have you tried SoundSource? Nathan, who is the developer on Menubus is now with Rogue Amoeba and says SoundSource has the same functionality, but I am not sure yet how or if it handles multichannel audio. Since you are always looking for ways to have a leaner set up, I was wondering if it might be possible to grab the head tracker data in Max and create a custom Envelop decoder where the first two channels are for tracked binaural, and the next four channels are for Ambix. That way you could monitor internally within Ableton and still output a 4 channel signal for recording. Have you looked into this at all?

[@michaelgwagner]

@@D5x610 Video is already up at kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6ebmaaYprmVjq8 I have not been able to do much with the Max code, but the Envelop system is open source and you can create your own decoders. I think they also provide examples. I am not sure if you can grab the Waves tracker data though. I have not yet seen anybody who has done that. For that purpose people usually use one of the inexpensive WIT Motion trackers. Soundsource is great although I am not sure if it has everything included that is needed. But I have not looked at it for a while. Had to switch to Windows.

[@D5x610]

@@michaelgwagner unfortunately if it’s only for Windows, that solution won’t work for many of us. I’m pretty good with Max, and I have already messed with the Envelop decoders. The big question is getting tracker data to max. If it’s possible I will build a decoder when I get a chance.

[@kristinwenselellingsen2365]

@@michaelgwagner Do I need Menubus to process sound for 5:1 (Using envelope4live + ableton11)? I will process a live performance and distribute the channels to monitors in a theater with 5:1.

[@michaelgwagner]

You can record from within Envelop directly. You only need a solution like menubus if you do some real time processing outside of Ableton (such as you would need to do for head tracking).

[@ThalesPosella]

This is so awesome! The amount of information on this series is out of charts! Congrats, and thanks a lot!

[@michaelgwagner]

Thank you, much appreciated. An oldie but goodie. 😊

[@danielfichman7517]

Thank you so much for the best tutorial on the web, for Ambisonics in general, and for the practical demos. I have learned a lot

[@RmaNYouTube]

Such rare informative tutorial series by such a knowledgeable man. I can't say thank you enough man

[@davedunbar232]

Very informative. I had been hunting for info on a Ambisonics workflow. I watched 2nd tutorial and started wondering if my NX could be used to monitor this setup. Then I saw this 3rd part which told me everything I needed to know. Brilliant set of tutorials for a fledgling Ambisonics junkie like me. The possibilities are really exciting. Great workflow.cheers.

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks!

[@kevinagnes]

Michael, thanks for all the info! I have used waves nx for 5.1 film mixing without the headtracker and the result was awesome! But my focus now is 360 audio production, I ordered my headtracker and I'm looking forward to contribute my research for the community! Cheers mate!

[@michaelgwagner]

The headtracker helps because it keeps the CPU usage low. But in terms of accuracy it works just as well without it.

[@alejokjok]

Hi I’m using Windows, and I would love an alternative for MenuBus. I notice that the app by NX was not really monitoring ambisonics but making the stereo signal sound spatialized. I wrote to Waves to ask them and they confirmed “Waves NX app for PC and Mac does not support Ambisonics B-format audio files." Because NX App works only with stereo and Surround (5.1 or 7.1) audio files.. Is there any software similar to MenuBus for Windows???

[@demiiiii]

you can use Dante Via and load NX with a simple Max Patch

[@handwoundpickups6555]

Thanks for this set of tutorials they are brilliant. I have just upgraded live and now have the envelop set up. My question is I would like to do a concert using ambisonics. I was thinking using a 5.1 or 7.1 set up. Would the sound still move in all directions or would I need speakers on the ceiling and floor to achieve this? Thanks Glenn

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks! With a traditional surround setup (5.1, 7.1) you can still capture all horizontal directions. However, for up/down you need at least ceiling speakers.

[@handwoundpickups6555]

@@michaelgwagner thanks Michael that’s brilliant. So I could plan the mix out using the waves app then take it live. Thanks again great tutorials very clear.

[@antonfinkeldei2717]

I downloaded the free version of menuBus, but can't find the Multi-Channel option there. When I tried to upgrade the website said menuBus isn't active in the market anymore. Is there a free alternative software?

[@thoughtfullife]

Unfortunately menubus is no longer offered for sale or download. Should we use Ableton's "Panner" instead? Will there be an update to this excellent tutorial on how to achieve this setup without menubus?

[@llorenzoTV]

Hi, since menuBuss fo Mac is dead, which VST host are yoou using that does 4Channel Tracks?

[@alejokjok]

for Windows user: the Waves NX app wont work with ambisonics, the only way that I could made it work was by routing the outputs from ableton through reaper with ReaRouteASIO and in reaper i have the ambisonics NX plugin

[@andresleon1410]

Hola Alejandra, como hiciste para elegir ReaRoute en AudioMulch entre los drivers? No lo puedo encontrar, solo lo encuentro en Ableton pero al seleccionarlo el programa se freezea. Gracias un abrazo

[@portra_services]

Hey Michael, thank you so so much for your tutorials - awesome explained! This helped me so much as there's barely anything out yet. I still have a question: What version of MenuBus did you use? The menu at 8:12 min just doesn't come up. I assume it doesn't exist anymore. Thus I cannot chose the right channels which probably is the problem why the camera tracking doesn't synchronize with WavesNx. I appreciate any kind of help! Greetings from Berlin

[@michaelgwagner]

I just updated to the latest menuBUS version (2.3.25) and it works as expected. It supports 8 channels now (although that does not make any difference for Ambisonics). I am using menuBUS with the modern theme. In order to access the settings menu you need to right click on the menubar icon if you have it like that. If you are using the classic theme you have a settings icon on the top right corner of the menuBUS window.

[@wintervalconspiracy]

Just a point about Waves NX - I don’t know about NX, but Abbey Road Studio 3 (which is their custom version of NX) works fine natively with Live on the master track.

[@yoyoyo1967]

currently though, AL10 doesn't support surround

[@wintervalconspiracy]

Not natively, but Envelop4Live can export ambisonic audio.

[@ohmnemusic1606]

Yes it works but as stereo plugin, if you try to load the surround version of Abbey Road it won't work bro, it sucks I know!

[@JBorda]

Amazing. THanks

[@macbabytutorials2883]

mr Michael. i m a big fan of yours and your tutorials. pleasewhat is your instagram? you re super knowledgable. many thanks:)