America Is Officially The WORST Nation At Top Tier... - War Thunder

The title says it all, but why?
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[@JustinPlaysTV]

I hope everyone doesn't mind a mid day release, as this is very much out of the norm for me. I felt it necessary to post this today as I found it to be incredibly important to bring attention to this issue. In this you'll also find my potential "Solution" to such a problem, about half way through the video. Regular release coming this Sunday, so keep an eye out on the socials :D

[@slacksthelast7975]

Hey Justin where can I go to see your pc specs are they posted anywhere ?

[@I_Rllydontcare]

Could you try flarakrad?

[@BrandonWrubleski-dp8vs]

As a American main I’m finna crash out

[@tutelbomb]

I actually made a video on this, and it's because of these shitty low levels who instead of having patience for the grind, they ask their mom and dad for a shiny new F4S or an M1A1 Clickbait. And there's also the squadron researcher, who squadron researches the M1A1 AIM as their first top tier vehicle. And the turret ring, that thing is just a big shiny weakpoint just begging to be shot And this really only happens in America because in real life, America has the best military so these kids who get into the game after they see an awesome Warthunder ad advertising shiny and awesome top tier vehicles they choose America because "oOh sHiNeY aMErIca TeaNK bESt tANK meaNs iLl bE vErY gooG", same with the Tiger 1 tanks. It's like an invasive species, hella annoying and disrupt things. The Abrams and America in general has so much potential but these brand new players who don't wanna grind just skip all of it. And a good way to avoid the premium spam for America is just don't play past 9.3. You get the XM803, MBT-70, M60A3 TTS (Genuinely Underrated), and other low tier APFSDS slingers. Once you're at 9.3, grind Germany or Sweden so you have some variety.

[@ballisticblue2v552]

I mean let's be honest Justin what also doesn't help america and the other nations that Russia has the best spaa with the longest range I mean as soon as you spawn in a plane they shoot at you and also they have the longest range CAS the 2u25sm3 that can shoot from like 20km and not be touched

[@craighopper2698]

Between level 5 premiums, one death leaves, everyone spawning on one side, and squiggly line names- America stands no chance

[@ElvisRocking1]

Fully agree, US mains are food. F4s are popcorn for my Mig29.

[@masonharkness6437]

Squiggly line names 😂😂

[@RhodesianSuperiority]

They really need to ban chinese players from NA servers. They’re either cheaters, or actually worse than any of the normal clickbait buyers 💀

[@KorianHUN]

​@@masonharkness64371/3 seem to be completely bot level while 2/3 usually make top of the team and have 878978988 matches played. They should get their own server back.

[@RealDudeee]

one death leave is the way to play. and I dont care what others say. I make my 5 frags.

[@mr.abrams9885]

It all started with the XM1s...

[@MrJarvisful]

The only reason I play America is for the xm1s. Certain maps they are absolutely busted.

[@sulferix7265]

@MrJarvisful I can't believe people unironically believe this. The xm1 is the single worst vehicle in the game at 9.3. I would unironically rather use 8.7 or 8.3 vehicles in a 1v1 against that piece of junk. It has no pen for the br, absolutely no armor, and mobility is easily beat by a very single nation at its br. So stupid.

[@remdr231]

@@sulferix7265 Compared to every other nations 9.0-9.3 mbts the xm1 has more than double the hp of everysingle nations respective vehicle and can achieve a higher top speed than all aswell. Armor is also equivalent to that of its br counterparts like the leopard 1s, of40s, srtv101, magachs, type74s. The only thing it severley lacks in is penetration but you can still pen everything perfectly fine since most things other than russian and chinese vehicles are made of paper mache and compared to the russian and chinese vehicles it has better mobility and reload.

[@Malerman888]

@@sulferix7265it also gets uptiered to 10.3 basically every single game

[@Tanker000]

​​​@@sulferix7265 They got ammo nerfed US rank 6 got nerfed to the ground the M60s, XM-1 GM, XM803 and MBT-70 used to have M829 which is around 380-400mm of pen and the first generation Abrams got nerfed with M774 rounds not M829 like it's supposed to have in real life and Gaijin barely put any nerfs on Russian ones and T-72 still same 440MM of pen that's fricking Bias AF.

[@coreyscrazy5151]

I wouldn't worry about the win rate if our rp wasn't tied to it. It's frustrating going in getting 10 kills and still losing.

[@ssuuss539]

FOR REAL

[@ICECAPPEDSKY]

I quit playing top tier US ground months ago. I’m just playing Russia and German top tier. Actually winning matches is a better experience than not, who would’ve thunk.

[@nattly6340]

even then, top tier is super boring because it devolves into spawn camping extremely fast, mid tier is the best because its mostly players who are at least decent at the game trying to win instead of people taking 1 look at the match and saying it isnt worth their time

[@Apex_warthunder]

same, i played america and france but constantly losing just made me depressed

[@DickCheneyXX]

@@nattly6340 Only trash players quit early, you can always carry the match. You can easily get to 70% by being sweaty.

[@knowahnosenothing4862]

Thunk is the sound your shit makes in the toilet."Thought", who would've thought. Otherwise yes USA is hard mode. So much gear gets sabotaged for balance instead of giving the correct modules and munitions and then balancing the BR.

[@VisionZR]

thunk? That's the word of the day 😂

[@ChaosKoda]

I don't mind people that have a lineup like the with the Wolfpack, Click-Bait, AIM, and maybe even the Apache and F4S for CAS. But it's the individuals that have WW2 tanks and the F4S that truly make we want to jump off a cliff.

[@Eskeletor_210]

Honestly I run the Aim, The AGS which is my favorite, an xm1 as last resort and either the Apache or a10 but the pantsir keeps me on the ground

[@benmontesanti6946]

Na i love my m41 and nobody expects it at all. It’s hilarious

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

At least they bring something 😭

[@christopherchartier3017]

@@Eskeletor_210You really do need the F-16C for anti-pantsir. It’s actually pretty easy going using both mavericks and GBU’s against it in the F-16C

[@Josh10Force]

​@@christopherchartier3017It's pretty easy until there's 2 pantsirs and they just shoot the Mavericks out the sky and proceed to ram the other 12 missiles they both have where the sun don't shine. The other issue is that it has the be 65D Mavericks otherwise you have to gamble with B version trying to lock something else once it gets close enough or just deciding to miss, I cant tell if this is a recent thing pr not because only recently have I had issues with 65Bs either tracking random targets no where near where they were fired or just whiffing stationary SPAA.

[@derritter3873]

As a Japan/French main, I am lucky I chose two nations that barely have any top tier premiums (Except the Fuji), but playing top tier, I get paired with US really often. Often enough to notice the constant losses. But I can notice that while people keep saying it’s because “(insert vehicle) is bad”, it really isn’t. I’ve seen that US teams can also absolutely stomp sometimes, but only rarely when they don’t have any one death leavers. Their CAS is especially horrific, as it’s something that you’re glad to have when it’s on your side, but absolutely despise fighting against. As for possible fixes, whether temporary or not, maybe a good and possibly temporary solution be just to separate by player level? Like lvl 0-50 and 50-100 are split in matchmaking so they have less of a chance of a team of fully experienced players vs wallet warriors? Or possibly have a new tutorial system where premium players have to go through several tutorial matches?

[@thatonelocalauthority2809]

How about American mains just get good and stop buying premiums at level 10? It isn’t hard, it’s not seen on any other nation (not to the same extent anyway) and especially not for minor nations.

[@Zosterias]

@@thatonelocalauthority2809tbh I think it’s more of Abrams being not beginner friendly compared to the 2A4M and T-80UE-1.

[@cookiecracker2]

​@@thatonelocalauthority2809wow! Thank you for that great bit of wisdom oh wise and all knowing one.

[@lukasralys6096]

@@thatonelocalauthority2809 dude premiums dont have shit to do with with 11.7 winrate

[@spliffy98]

Being a minor nation main really sucks as we often get paired with USA, and then fighting against both Rus+CN+German teams that steam rolls our spawn within 3 minutes

[@Kwisss]

Even though Abrams could use some fixes (especially the acknowledge turret ring fix) its mainly the players + one deathers ruining the win rate. If they don't want to give it spall liners (which the SEPV3 is proven to have) they could just give a flak jacket modification for the crew as in real life Abrams/Challenger crews use flak jackets to protect from spall.

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

I would be happy with turret ring fix.

[@h.a8681]

how do you know the SEPv3 has spall liners

[@BentCheeks]

Provide citation for sepv3 having spall liners

[@ggaz683]

@@gravitatemortuus1080 What is wrong with the turret ring?

[@holstatt6896]

@@ggaz683 its easier to pen than it should be.

[@markfrost5164]

I MADE IT TO THE SEPV2 and immediately switched nations the abrams just gets one shoted to easy i dont think iv ever bounced a round

[@itsrass1378]

Yeah the Abram’s just so muhh to play, I I’ve had a way better experience playing the challenger 2s and the g lynx. But the Russian top tier line is still the easiest to play.

[@Kuzniak_]

It's not about the tank ur just bad. Abrams is damn good. Great mobility, good fire power, good reload and pretty good armor if u only know how to use it.

[@itsrass1378]

@@Kuzniak_ I have a positive K/D with it and like playing it sometimes but it’s very boring loosing most of the matches but The armor sucks on all of them at top tier and the 5 second reload can only do so much for it.

[@fabianrojas7577]

If you think the armor is bad on the abrams, then you should play top-tier japan where armor is essentially a single piece of cardboard at best.

[@salmon0422]

@@Kuzniak_Abrams is good, but click baiters or AIM players always perma W key it and have no clue where to shoot other tanks that have far less and smaller weak spots than Abrams.

[@alucard7895132]

not just the US, it goes through all nations at high BR's that the playerbase is so fkn braindead that i can't enjoy the game anymore in the slightest and i finally uninstalles the game after 2800h....

[@Lolski_924]

Good keep it uninstalled, save your sanity

[@alucard7895132]

@@Lolski_924 I will, sad for the AMX30 Super that i bought last when it was down 50% so i could grind France but welp, there goes 25 bucks i guess.

[@jmdb8768]

@@alucard7895132nah bro u shpuld grind it make your money worth even if it cost u your sanity

[@Itisowlcat]

I was a Japan main and just uninstalled after 2400 hours, WT just feels like a job rather than a game. Screw Gaijin

[@AdaaDK]

it would be nice if they made it so people with only 1-2 tanks/planes in lineup at a certain rank/br, would only be matched with same people, that way we could have multi spawn games with actual fun at top tier without these 1-2 spawn leavers.

[@mistysurge491]

The problem is that most Abrams players who got the Clickbait and/or AIM have the same exact mindset as german Tiger wehraboos who think they are god's greatest feat of tank engineering to ever exist, only to get clubbed and become a laughing stock

[@INeatFreak]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="686">11:26</a> I think better question is to ask why Gaijin is so neglectful of one of the most popular nations in the game? They cripple it at every chance they got, not adding proper SPAA, making the ADATS same BR as Panthsir with 2-3x the SP cost, not giving HSTV-L it's proper shell pen and proxy rounds, not adding the A3 ammo or more modern versions of Abrams (SEP V3) despite adding tanks few years old with spall liners to other nations. It's been like 7-8 months since they've accepted that Abrams turret ring is wrongly modeled, where's the fix Gaijin?

[@INeatFreak]

From what I see is that Gaijin uses USA top tier as bait for other nations premium players to feed on and they want USA mains to get frustrated and spend some more to buy other nations as looking at the marketplace, US vehicles are always the top seller ones. Or if wanna delve into conspiracy a bit, it could also be supported by Russian government to make US vehicles look bad, or combination of all these factors.

[@TheTeehee11111]

I'm so disappointed about gaijin not doing anything that I quit the game.

[@INeatFreak]

@@TheTeehee11111 Exactly, why would any veteran play the USA? Only good thing was the F-16C but now we have Gripen and F-16AM etc.. They would rather play with the Strv 122B+ and Gripen and have a competent ItO 90M spaa to defeat enemy CAS than play with shitty Abrams and ADATS and worst players at top tier.

[@brunorodrigues5718]

​@@INeatFreak? US still has the best air tree by far

[@INeatFreak]

@@brunorodrigues5718 I was talking abut CAS in GRB, not Air battles. Over there yes, USA is the meta after the AMRAAMS update.

[@jalderete1995]

One thing that could help with new players going to top tier would be making premiums only purchasable if you have unlocked that tier in the normal research tree (you only need to do it in one nation for all other nations premiums to unlock). You could of course balance this in other ways like maybe you can buy premiums to 1 tier higher of what you have unlocked on the regular research tree. Gajin may even make more money by promoting buying a few premiums for your first nation instead of just the highest tier 1.

[@thecringeinspector5636]

Sounds like the best option so far imo

[@MellyMelly7]

Might as well add a game mode with USA teams only. That's how bad it is, I can't think of any other way to improve US win rate.

[@zack10291029]

Forced mixed battles. No more countries vs countries, Just randomly put each player on a team without looking at the country. At least for rb and ab it'll work, sim is a different story though

[@fboyg91]

@@zack10291029 that sounds absolutely terrible lol

[@mich421]

But the problem remains that some people only have one vehicle or maybe two if they have that squadron vehicle and play 11.3​@@zack10291029

[@zack10291029]

@@fboyg91 why?

[@ANUBISseyes2]

@@zack10291029ARB in top tier is already everyone vs everyone all nations mixed + half of the nations share the same vechicles

[@Hatsuzu]

Another Japanese W man...ive been saying this for years, "main nation syndrone" rots the brain of players.

[@machucast]

Another factor it.... TOP #1 SPAA for usa is the ADATS, 1 little gun and 8 ready 10km range missiles that suck beyond 5-6km, it sits at 11.7. Russia on the other hand, and the hackstir S1, 4x30mm shredders and 8 ready 20km range missiles at 11.7.... also no armor so 90% of shots just go straight through it, and essentially no top down blindspot as the cherry on top (pun intended). Is it not obvious anymore?

[@Spearhead45]

and we all seen how good the pantsir has been in ukraine. the pantsir sucks so bad.

[@reinyfrost3753]

It's not 8, it's 12.

[@tomasdvorak163]

You have at least that little gun, british have only missiles on less mobile m113 chasis and Stormer HVM that Snail still havent fixed sice all those years ago when it was added.

[@reinyfrost3753]

@@tomasdvorak163 Instead, the canadian ADATS gets better gun elevation and smoke grenades. Although, I still think the american ADATS is better.

[@nattly6340]

@@tomasdvorak163 i wish the would add some real british spaa like the rapier or one of the other stormer variants, instead we got a cucked adats :c

[@juventus7131]

I kind of disagree with the lower plate. At the moment the whole front of the Abrams is a weak spot. At least with the adjusted plate armor it'll force the enemy player to think and aim instead of just clicking and winning the fight.

[@warfreak8966]

Agreed...1-2 second of enemy finding the weak spot helps us and gives us the time to find their weak spot too not just the enemy point and clicking us or making the turret neck harder

[@michaelkoerner4578]

32% man, thats not good enough. Gaijin needs to nerf the entire tech tree from 9.0 on to get them win rates at a better single digit win rate to demonstrate superior russian tanks.

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

Why do the Italians do just fine then with an even worse tank?

[@jacksonrhodes1500]

Couldn’t be due to not having spall liners, most of the Abram’s still having gen 1 thermals and being louder than hell, not really having a great spaa lineup, or the Pantsir locking you before you even spawn in the air

[@MJA-0330]

@@jacksonrhodes1500 Abrams engines irl are very loud, they're gas turbine engines

[@Kwisss]

@@MJA-0330 That's a misconception. They're loud when idling and your next to it especially behind it but when its coming to you its much quieter than diesel engines. It's called whispering death for a reason.

[@elkrumb9159]

Germany also has Gen 1 thermals, the SEP and 2A7 have better thermals

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

That's my other issue soviet CAS and the only counter really being soviet AA.

[@Stridsvagn-PanzerKommandant]

Panstir be shootin you down in your loading screen (I've been getting shot down within 10 secs of spawning aircraft whenever Pantsir is present)

[@IIW4RHAWKII]

If the nation doesn’t have a leopard don’t play it basically it’s become leopard thunder

[@RH-om1ph]

That is retarded. T-90M is very strong as well. At least for me.

[@Angamerx100]

You dont get it do you? Its not about leos, its about lvl 5/50 buying top tier tanks while having no clue how the game works. Also most top tier prem players play USA eo yeah

[@alexken6209]

@@Angamerx100tanks also play a factor. try the abram’s for 10 matches and then try the Sweden leopards, you will see a big difference.

[@wtpiv6041]

This but with the T-80. Unless you just want to win all the time and play Sweden which has both leopards and a T-80.

[@renzohendriks1773]

​@@Angamerx100 The 2A7s and Strv 122 are just so stupidly strong it's hurting the game at so many different levels beyond simple balance.

[@Tanker000]

No ones gonna talk about the Ammo nerf Gaijin did dirty to US Rank 6 and First gen M1 Abrams?

[@RhodesianSuperiority]

Lol yea M1 cant even get m900, it literally cannot compete at 10.3 considering it get uptiered 99% of games. American 10.3 is a dead tier, You can play 10.0 barely with the m1182 (with m900 btw lmao) but if you put the M1 in your lineup you’re fucked

[@stranger299a]

Gaijin has some bias when it comes to the US 105, they suck when they should be comparable to the Germans

[@shirghazaycowboys]

@@stranger299aA lot of people don’t remember but there was time the L7 gun had a spread modifier. You know the same gun that armed the vehicles of so many countries even to this day. Sometimes your shot would just veer off for no reason. Russian tanks? Laser accurate all the time.

[@hecku]

I recently unlocked the first M1 Abrams and I just don't understand. Everyone talks about the Abrams having the superior mobility and reload but I run circles around myself with the TURMS, just last week I got two nukes with the M60A3 TTS. Straight up, armor and raw firepower beat mobility 90% of the time, especially when you instantly get half of your crew nuked the second you poke your head out of cover and lose that reload that's one of your few advantages.

[@hecku]

I think the premium thing is BS. Russia and Germany get totally equivalent premium tanks to the Clickbait and I see TURMS, Leopard 2A4s, and 2S38s infinitely more than Clickbaits and they are so much easier to use.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@hecku "Russia and Germany get totally equivalent premium tanks to the Clickbait and I see TURMS, Leopard 2A4s, and 2S38s infinitely more than Clickbaits and they are so much easier to use." Russia and Germany got "equivalent" premium tanks 6 months after the US did.... Firstly, Germany now has 2 premium top tier tanks and a squad vehicle, the 2A4M however was only just recently added as was the T-80U-E1 (both added mid June 2024) meaning they don't go on sale, whereas the US already had 3 premiums top tier vehicles and a squad vehicle, the US premiums are also spread out over 10.0, 10.3 and 11.3 and as the Clickbait was added back in December 2023, it goes on sale when sales happen (as it did in the recent sale i.e. 50% 0ff). The US had the most top tier premiums for a little while and was the first nation alongside Britain to get a 11.3 premium, that's the difference, the US was already adversely affected and most US "mains" left when the SEPv2 was added, because who in their right minds wants to play the SEPv2.

[@hecku]

@@aflyingcowboy31 Either way I'm still struggling at 10.3 just as much. I understand I'm still affected by the clickbait either way in that situation, but it genuinely is night and day how effective I am going between Germany, Russia, and USA.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@hecku "I understand I'm still affected by the clickbait either way in that situation" You are not being affected by the Clickbait at 10.3. The Clickbait is an 11.3 vehicle and you have just outlined all you really get are 10.0 and 10.3 games..... You are being affected by the Wolfpack and M1 KVT. But yes, unlike what everyone tells you, Russia and German are more forgiving to play at those BRs, the US isn't that forgiving.

[@BlackWolf9988]

Depends on the map and depends on the skill of your enemy. Armor doesn't help against skilled opponents that know all the weakspots much.

[@TheAngriestGamer.]

no FAF ATGMs on helis unlike everyone else, using incorrect 30+ year old Hellfires on the AH1Z that never fired the Bs. armor that never got upgraded and is still 1980s level because gaijin thinks that the Sep V1 and V2 abrams never got DU inserts (which they did in the turret and hull) gas lighting only works on people who arent aware that gaijin is full of crap or building strawmen. inferior 30+ year old ammo from 1992 on its MBTs and their refusal to give it A3 or A4 ammo which is half a foot longer than A2 and has nearly 180mm more pen. doesnt have IR Tracking for chopper popping (which it did irl with the A2 and up). doesnt have buddy lazing which the us relies on heavily irl, doesnt have SEAD missiles which the us also relies on heavily. doesnt have a good AA.. most of their tanks are disgustingly over BRed like the HSTVL and M1A2 which should be 10.7 and 11.0 respectively. doesnt have any KE protection on its ERA even though its widely known that American ARAT ERA protects about 150-200mm KE and 800mm CE. has a bugged UFP that is too thin and allows auto cannon fire through in addition to being thinner than it actually is which is 51mm on M1A1HA/M1A2 models and up.. 120mm M830A1 flak round is impotent because it was hyper nerfed because it did what it was suppose to and killed a KA or 2 once upon a time. Tow 2Bs having 100mm pen and not the 380mm pen it actually has for no reason, despite the fact the bill2 exists with 540mm pen and has the same function. AGM65s having 800mm pen or w/e it is in this trash game instead of the 2300mm pen it actually has, for those who dont know the Maverick is a comically unreasonably oversized heat missile that is comic levels of overkill irl, it is a literal MONSTER of a missile that will kill anything it hits. IT turns relict covered T90s into freaking craters. to give it 800mm pen is Criminal and shows their own bias. Just the warhead alone, the heat charge alone on the smaller lighter maverick missiles, weighs more than an entire hellfire missile. yes you read that right, the warhead alone on a maverick weighs more than the whole of a hellfire missile. yeah man i cant figure out why the US isnt good either, must just be a skill issue with us players right? cant be a dev skill issue XD 800mm + russian and german armor vs american tanks with 480mm is just a skill issue. the weaker tanks with marshmellow rounds should totally win, the players are just bad.

[@georges.patton4241]

Got to make American equipment look bad to prove what's happening in Ukraine with old American gear is just western propaganda

[@tacotvgaming6639]

i grinded all the way to top tier us and when i finally get there bam worst win rate for us in warthunder history love it i don't have any fun playing top teir US ground br what am i suppose to do i want to play us tec tree its the one thing I've been grinding for and i don't have time to to play another nation god the snail truly hates me

[@SpriGgEx]

its no surprise, everytime US has something that somewhat performs well in ground RB it gets insta nerfed. I get the worst Matchmakings and Lineups above 9.0 that just feel castrated except of very few vehicles in comparison to full lineups in other Nations. Its almost impossible to play between 9.3 and 11.0 There are just no Lineups and you get 99% uptiers. I gave up trying to play at these BRs and since i dont have top tier in US i cant move rly forward.

[@CircusJeanie2399]

I'm curious how the mentality behind this might be affecting the win rate as well. It's been proven, I believe (been a long time since I read the article) that people going in and being more confident (in this case because they're going against the US) are generally going to do better, especially if those on the opposing side (those playing the US) also go in feeling like they're going to lose. This might not be a top tier America sucks cause they're all premium noobs situation as much anymore, it likely started that way, but defeatism is powerful and will affect peoples gameplay, and the opposite is true.

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

When the last big sale I saw tons of premium Soviet and German tanks. I don't think that's the issue. It's a mix like turret ring issues which they won't fix and things like the soviet CAS with the only true counter to them being the soviet AA defense. I play more than one nation and when in 10.3 up USA its brutal.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@gravitatemortuus1080 "When the last big sale I saw tons of premium Soviet and German tanks. I don't think that's the issue." None of their 11.3 premiums went on sale, the Clickbait however did, I don't know why people seem to forget the US got the 11.3 Clickbait back in mid December 2023, the 2A4M and T-80U-E1 were only added in mid June this year. Now, if you look at the 10.0 WRs for all 3 nations all their WRs currently suck.

[@Juel92]

I feel like confidence in this game is bad. You get more cocky and get killed quickly lol.

[@CircusJeanie2399]

@@Juel92 Confident and cocky are different. Sure being over confident can lead to being cocky. But confidence in itself is a good thing to have, you'll be more sure of decisions and commit to winning more.

[@CircusJeanie2399]

@@gravitatemortuus1080 I'm not saying it's the only factor, all of the things you mentioned are true. But, consider how long these win rate issues have been going on, the longer the issue continues the more entrenched the mentality will become. There are plenty of things in the game, such as those you suggested, that might help sure. But in the long run so long as the mentality that games against the US or as the US will be easy, or impossible to win, you will have experienced players leaving matches early leaving the new players or less skilled players to drown. Whilst skilled players on the enemy team will have an easier chance at victory due to the lack of experience or skill on the US's side. So I feel like the mentality probably still does have an effect.

[@pendraig5446]

gaijin should add premium line up pack with a damn SPAA on that note, SPAA should get more incentives for spawning early. if not, they get overwhelmed by the CAS they tend to leave which makes it tip off the balance

[@MJA-0330]

It's a combination of things but mostly because Abrams have a huge weak spot under the gun

[@elkrumb9159]

I mean sure but it’s outright the prems

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

If they would fix the turret ring issue would aid. All hits even light spalling takes it out. I usually die just after it's taken out and I am helpless.

[@Faded._]

Bro the Abrams is not the problem go play a challenger it's literally worse yet what do you know.... The British have a higher wr, surely it can't be because US mains are some of the most brainless people you can encounter at top tier

[@amazingjarl7147]

no, it is ENTIRELY the influx of premium players

[@elkrumb9159]

@@gravitatemortuus1080 the turret ring wouldn’t stop modern rounds anyhow

[@User54tr]

I am guilty of being someone who bought top tier through the m1a1 AIM and the yah-64 and I recently realized that the problems aren’t with the tank. Players need to realize that armor is not something u can rely on in top tier. It is more important to rely on the mobility and firepower of the tank. I went from being part of the problem and leaving games with 1 or 2 kills to now averaging around 4 in my first spawn with the tank. (Edit) tech tree wise I am at about 8.3

[@nattly6340]

you cant rely on armour... unless your a leo or T-80...

[@Juel92]

Yeah throughout the game it's really only some heavy tanks that have reliable armor but even they can get easily taken out if you play them wrong.

[@tartarthewretch]

you are still the problem.

[@prex2000]

After almost 6 months of the win rates being so low, I'm starting to think it's no longer just "premium low level" player spam

[@radosawnowak9331]

German main vs US mail lol

[@prex2000]

@@radosawnowak9331 mail

[@corrodan2995]

Feels like a combination of poor armor, excess amounts a premium vehicles, opponents having equally as mobile while better armored tanks, and not being paired as often with the more "meta" nations.

[@Billyipod]

Hello there, am an Italian main, with 2k hours, i do win almost all of my matches with the centauro 120 and the leo2a7, but is true that when i get the americans on my team, i had games where i had 10 kills, and still lost, cause they use only 1 premium tank and dc, which could be annoying, seing that there is a lot of premiums spam, like in other nations, maybe the sad solution is adding more premiums so players could buy full lineups like un russia or sweden, si the 1 tabk spam could stop…. I know is not a good solution but i seriously think it could work

[@i_hate_sparksrafa8586]

Same for me, brainless American players in their premiums. Me in shitty ariete C1 having 11kills meanwhile my team in much better Abram’s leaving after 1 death and 0 kills

[@RaptorBaptist]

where does the notion of 'all the bad players are on usa' come from? I keep hearing this sentiment, but no one has ever referenced anything other than 'I think'

[@Helix597]

It comes from the fact good US players are drowned out by the fact that low levels buy their way into top tier.

[@shardr7983]

Gaslighting by the horrid players in other nations that are handheld by gaijin with actually functional tanks.

[@debugden9172]

I've been helping my buddy grind US and he's 8.3 right now and he is REALLY noticing that we might win every 1 in 8 or so games. It doesn't exactly instill a want to come back either.

[@SilverDawnbreak]

Honestly @JustinPlaysTV , While i do think a bit of it doesnt include the Abrams is half of the problem but a major thing i saw that wasnt pointed out was the lack of Anti air for all the Lowest winrates as well and ground attack options from the lower win rate nations. So looking at it USA, Britain, Isreal currently have the lowest win rates currently in the game. Between those they all have some of the Weakest Air to ground options as well and Anti air Options. Alot of people i talk to aswell say they bring the LAV-AD as anti air for america because it works better then that of the ADATS system since the ADATS doesnt have the range that the Pantsir, vt1 missile aswell as the lack of human error coming from japan with the Type 81 and the strela system. So honestly looking at these i think this could be a part of the problem since if these nations with low win rates die first with no kills and cant get into an aircraft or some kind of system to protect themself could be part of the issue of not wanting to spawn in a second time (they are just gonna die in spawn by a KA-50, Spike missile, SU-25BN 40KM missile while having nothing to combat them but a ADATS that cant even relyably hit a target past 6KM while they are manuvering it can be a mental block for people since they are just going to die again But the other problem for these nations is their lack of POWERFUL ground attack. America has been kinda shafted recently when it comes to Power with anti ground options to deal with targets Past 10KM range since the Maverick systems have a lower LOCK range (reason i point this out is while it says 20KM+ they only have less then a 10KM Lock range) Far within the reaches of anti air systems such as the VT-1 missiles (12KM range) and the Pantsir (up to 20kmrange) and the TOR ( ). So with those in place it makes it hard to make use of Ground attack systems that require guidance (Pavways and hellfires) and systems with a lacking lock range (mavricks and walleyes) So while i do agree that the abrams is a large cause i do think there are other factors such as these that largely play into the winrates for these nations. Since once you pass 12.7 the win rates should stabalize for the winrates for avoiding the Clickbait tier but it doesnt, it just goes even lower.

[@oakenmountain2035]

Based on

[@mattcooper6591]

I have to agree with the lack of anti air and the lack of range for air to ground. I’ve been seeing more Russian CAS at one time than ever before and my poor ADATS can’t cope. I’ve been using the F-16C with 2 GBUs and the rest just AIM-120s so I can stay away from the Pamtsir as much as possible. The F-16C has been my anti air since ADATS sucks and even then. I’m forced to dodge the Pantsir as soon as I spawn in. Air should spawn farther away than what it does. That’s the biggest problem I’ve noticed when it comes to CAS. Give me room to climb or dive down below radar before I’m locked on so I’m not bleeding my air speed dodging missiles out the gate

[@S051K]

Hot take: just remove the backup system. Let players respawn as much as they want as long as they have the spawn points. Spawn points is already a decent system.

[@Paronak]

M22 rushing to cap points, spawns CAS at 3 minutes in the match, decimates the enemy team, gets downed, spawns another CAS, decimates even more enemies and SPAA, gets downed, spawn another CAS.... It already happens, let's not make it easier for CAS spammers to spawn jets and fuck up ground matches

[@S051K]

@@Paronak While I agree, people can already do that with enough skill. removing backups doesnt remove the SP requirements & skill and doesnt affect the "plane only" loadouts. SP goes up for planes of a similar type attackers/fighters/bombers, and you can already spawn with a backup of a plane, and SP doubles. So with the current system, you can already do what you're saying with at minimum 6 planes spread across 3 slots. SP without backups would still go up, exponentially per plane type.

[@devlintaylor9520]

@@Paronak How would you have enough sp to get more than 1 CAS? Didnt think planes got that much

[@Paronak]

@@devlintaylor9520 if you watch Malzi, you can see videos where he gets 1 or 2 kills, spawns a Pe8, drops a megaton bomb and gets 5 kills, gets shot down (getting shot down makes you earn SP), spawn another Pe8, and repeat until the match ends

[@INeatFreak]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="472">7:52</a> You shouldn't ask players to bring backup, Gaijin should stop being greedy and give 2-3 free backups for Premium/Squadron vehicles if you don't have one or two other vehicles on your lineup.

[@trannkhaiminh9997]

>Gaijin >Stop being greedy Lmaoooooooo

[@Snapdragon377]

For me, it happened in like the past 2 weeks; my games used to be alright and we would usually have the occasional blowout, now nearly every game are all blowouts with me and 2 other teammates left. At that point it just becomes impossible to watch all the angles or by that point you are already pushed back in spawn. US usually doesn't do too bad early game and after we cap a couple points, everyone doesn't push together or they just don't take power positions and then I just watch the entire team fall apart.

[@derpfin5145]

Real, I have played so many games where it's like, oh we are finally doing well, we have all the points and are pushed kind of far only to notice within 2 minutes my entire team dwindle to just me and a few other people and then down to just me. I also seem to CONSTANTLY get teammates that can't push further than halfway to the point and then just sit right outside spawn doing absolutely nothing and then getting picked off by enemies that are actually competent and push us. Recently on Fields of Poland we spawned on the south side and more than half of my team all sat behind that little house on the road leading to the main town and every single one of them got picked off by enemies that flanked and went directly to the town, it was an absolute clownshow.

[@wtpiv6041]

Roughly 2-3 weeks ago was the summer sale where the clickbait went half off. That’s probably the main cause of the issue.

[@warmetalsnake1925]

Its because every one who started this game goes straight to USA first and then new people buy premium top teir vehicles

[@rodneycook3674]

Make backups mandatory. And one life leaving should lock all crews.

[@mattiknowyourmum7521]

That should only be for top tier, i've been playing 6.7 and 8.0 and about 60% of the games are full up tiers cant blame people for leaving after one death full upteirs arent fun.

[@sameerghayya3203]

you can't force people to play the game the way that serve you, its a game not the army. i leave matches ton of times when i got shot by helicopter or cas almost every match or when i shot some russian bvm in his side and nothing happen. if a game think they can 'punish' you or force player into a behavior i will simply uninstall it and ton of people will do that

[@SprayandPrayman22]

1) Locking all crews after one life leaving will lead to griefing. Pushing players out of cover, into rivers, etc. Sure, they may get banned but it'll still worsen the overall quality of gameplay. 2) They'll never make backups mandatory. Either they make it free or anger the entire playerbase as it will be seen as forcing players to pay in order to play the game. I get where you're going with this but these are short-sighted. Ultimately I would say map design and layout is the biggest killer of the Abrams. On the wider, more open maps, they can do incredibly well, using their rate of fire, firepower and mobility to push into aggressive positions, open fire and retreat before taking firing in return.

[@ViperPilot16]

I already get crew locks from lagging into the ground, when the Gaijin hamster dies. I don't need the even more of a sweat fest that is top tier grb giving me a lock for even less of a reason.

[@NotOlzen]

@@rodneycook3674 they could just make premiums have free backups. But that would mean they could lose money…

[@HotRod-gv4zt]

There's also these issues, no new maps. Map size is a factor. Players rushing out and K.O'd. And, the Abrams is suffering due to the lack of updated armor and its not carrying the A3 Super sabot. That and Gaijin is probably pissed that their country is suffering. *cough*

[@jaxfet3]

Wheres my sep v3? Wheres M829A3? both the SEP V3 and M829A3 are older than 3BM60 and the T-90M and T-80BVM whats the excuse now?

[@thrauil]

rEaLisM or balance just pick one.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@thrauil a 30% WR doesn't seem balanced to you does it?

[@Juel92]

They should have skipped the sep v2 and gone directly to the sep v3.

[@thrauil]

@@aflyingcowboy31 Gaijin will say it is realistic. DUH. Sarcasm aside, putting blame on wallet warriors is a little bit of self-defeating argument. Other nations have a lot of premiums, and they manage just fine. If anything, I'd say all the Clickbaits (and KVTs to a lesser degree) just shown how bad US MBTs are. If you have an influx of bad players in top tier (and summer sale were not limited only to one nation), the bad sides of premium vehicles will become even more noticeable.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@thrauil "Sarcasm aside, putting blame on wallet warriors is a little bit of self-defeating argument. Other nations have a lot of premiums, and they manage just fine." Other nations have 1 maybe 2 top tier premiums, point of fast Germany literally only just received their 2nd top tier premium in June.... The US had the most top tier premiums in the game for almost half a year, that is the difference, Russia now has the US beat, but the damage has already been done, all the US players already stopped playing the US, mainly because the SEP and SEPv2 are just M1A1 HCs. "If anything, I'd say all the Clickbaits (and KVTs to a lesser degree) just shown how bad US MBTs are." The M1s are bad because Gaijin makes them bad, there are quite a few improvements that they could do, but simply don't, I still have no clue why they even added the SEPv2 if they were going to make TUSK a mainstay part of the vehicle....

[@Talishar]

The logic doesn't follow. Russia got their top tier premium at the same time and they didn't and haven't cratered. Germany got their Polish Leo and didn't have their win rate crater. Gaijin has been steadily nerfing armor/ammo for years on the Abrams series on often unfounded claims while requiring the chief of the Russian army put it in writing before they "balance" a Russian vehicle. You're just seeing the knock-on effects of years of cumulative small "balance" patches stack up to become a massive nerf. When the Abrams first came out, they had some of the craziest survivability in the game and some of the best pen with one of the best maneuverability. They were the perfect package and the tons of complaints saw them get nerfed into the ground. Most of the 1 and done deaths also aren't usually the premium players but the veteran players quitting after 1 death. With so many premium options, the US whale players tend to just channel all of their premiums out at once, while the veteran players are so jaded that they'll quit after a single death to get into the next match ASAP.

[@Juel92]

If veteran players leave after one death then they deserve this win ratio. Italian players only had the ariete for a while and they did just fine.

[@Eagle-kp7fx]

I think the issue is more player base rather than tank issues, and I think u see that point. The issue I have is that the Challanger (ariete and merk) is plane out worse then the abrams, less survivability, slower, worse dart, worse reload, the only thing it has is better thermals. Similar can be said for the ariete and merkava. They are all good tanks, just need to be played by the right players, the same as the Abrams. The difference is that Italy, GB, and Isreal are played by less players, usually more experenced. If they had the popularity o the USA, Germany, or USSR, they would be in the same boat as the american tree. I think that this has to be said, great Video though, I 100% agree.

[@NFenchak1]

If I was significantly statistically more likely to get USA on my team because I am playing Sweden as a strategy to bring up USA win rates, I would stop playing Sweden. Better solution is to ignore nations and just do connection based matchmaking at 10+ BR. Evenly distribute the newer players.

[@prizrak-br3332]

What they should do is remove the AIM and Click-Baits but we know this will never happen. With that being said, the least they could do is increase their protection of both turret and lower plate and give M829A3/4 to the SEPs. And please let's stop with this dumb argument of "It won't make a difference increasing the armor so we shouldn't do it" because is the dumbest argument I ever heard because: 1- If it won't change anything then there's really no reason not to do it 2- It will absolutelly make a diference bacause even though the neck will still be there that's a much smaller weakstop than the f*ing ENTIRE LOWER HALF. That's at least 30% less green areas. 3- There is currently no way of pretecting your breach with the Abrams by turning the turret because if you do that they will go right through your cheeck and get the breach at the very least, while pretty much every other tank in game can abuse of turning the turret to protect their breach. The other argument that M829A3 won't make a difference is just as dumb since Gaijin can give whatever penetration value they want since those are fictional anyway. I guarantee you if they do that and maybe add the SEP v3 together with M829A4 penetrating 750mm or so, the US win rates would go up in no time. But of course they will never do that because at this point balance already went out the window for at least the last 3 years and their bias towards Russia is all but undeniable.

[@warspitebstwaifu6453]

So your solution is just fantasy armour buffs and a new shell that will have like what 10mm more pen at most than the shells we have in game?

[@prizrak-br3332]

@@warspitebstwaifu6453 Bro, all armor in this game is fantasy, so is the penetrations.

[@vanshkhokhar5119]

😂😂 750 mm pen keep dreaming bud

[@STRV122B]

I say just have a player level minimum requirement to buy certain BR premiums. There shouldn’t be anyone below level 50 operating an 11.3 premium.

[@wifi_soldier5076]

imagine if USA mains had to use Leclerc's or Arietes....

[@fboyg91]

bro these US mains have some balls saying the abrams is worse than the ariete lmaoooooo

[@Boomkokogamez]

As an American main, I prefer Leclerc over Abram due to better mobility and armor that actually works and bounce shots although it frontal turret is penable but it so much better.

[@Boomkokogamez]

​@fboyg91 I can do better in Ariete than Abram even without it correct armor so.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

"imagine if USA mains had to use Leclerc's or Arietes...." US mains left to do exactly that.... There is a reason that both France and the US currently have nearly the exact same amount of players/battles played i.e. all the US mains left to go play France, Japan, Sweden, Russia and Germany..... I currently also prefer the Leclerc over the M1, I don't know people think the heavy as hell M1s are somehow better then the Leclerc's.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@fboyg91 The Ariete is no longer the main tank you play as Italy, you now play the 2A7HU which last time I checked is easily probably the best MBT in the game. That said if you want to include the Ariete I would say the M1A2s are currently the 4th worst MBTs in the game..... I don't know if you noticed but there are 10 nations currently in the game so the M1s are easily one of the worst tanks currently, its no wonder all the US mains left to play other nations.

[@cmanmaxwell]

This is how I've perceived the heat map for win rates. Low win rates usually means that's a popular area of gameplay that can be good or bad but either way the insane number of players naturally brings the rate down. A lot of people just wanting to try the new tank versus people who enjoy that nation and that br specifically.

[@the_undisputed_king_5395]

The U.S. faction should be split between the teams at top tier. Also, any Abrams model that was ever given DU armor in any sort of prototype or testing way needs to get it as a modification. Plenty of vehicles in War Thunder have experimental modifications they never used in reality (the F-4J never had a gun pod for example). Hell some vehicles in game never even existed, so there’s plenty of justification for giving the Abrams the DU armor. Also add M829A3 and A4

[@raizencore]

Like I've said before, only way for things to get better is to prevent new player from buying high tier premiums and even squadron vehicles and then we may see some improvement but until that happens things will only continue to go downhill. Gaijin has to make a small sacrifice and do this, it's not like the current playerbase will not be able to buy these vehicles so if anything, they aren't in a position to lose financially.

[@liladoodle]

Just give me the XM2001 Crusader, and I'll be happy.

[@mohamedmahmoudali2533]

Saying one death premium leavers are ruining top tiers is very hypocritical, i have seen as many level 100 players with hundreds of tank leave after the first death as well as youtubers leaving instantly if they don’t get a clip in the veichle they want. Just play the game winning or losing doesn’t change anything.

[@Rrynarth]

It's honestly such a stark contrast between the amount of fun I have in Abrams vs the Leopards. Leopards are literal Nuke printers in comparison to the Abrams,. I played the same map with both countries and barely got 2 kills in the Abrams while getting something like 13 kills in my Leo 2A7..Same playstyle as well. Being taken out of the fight immediately in the Abrams because that upper front plate/below the main gun weakspot just does so much damage to the internals of your tank is nuts. Hell even the Leo PSO is a fucking monster in comparison to the Abrams SEP..

[@Rrynarth]

Oh and another thing. Give the Abram's players the round that the Abram's actually uses..M829A3 and M829A4.

[@Entrailraider]

@@Rrynarth LMAO

[@genericusername5948]

It's not just the Click baits and AIMs, the amount of times I've played in my M1A2s to not see a single other A2 on my team, I play with the F-16C in my lineup so I wouldn't be able to see the AIMs or click baits on their own, they take the F-4S in their lineup but they never get to take it out because they get absolutely wrecked immediately in their Abrams.

[@andrewdombrowski3371]

They don’t have the armor right and they know it but won’t change it

[@IzakSemrdoii]

Ariete turret have less armor but italy still have a great win ratio so that is not the issue

[@ayeyochill5048]

Me personally yes I agree USA does suffer but not for the right reason. Out of Most nations i personally feel America only suffer due to its specific Play style. Almost every top tier USA player just rushes, gets killed and then complains. From someone who likes USA even tho how lackluster Gaijin made the Abram’s as a rushing Tank. Most nations have tanks that can just Big D and go in. USA can’t do that, you gotta truly have a play style to play back, know your shots. USA only suffers because of the player base being inexperienced with the Abrams.

[@Juel92]

Also I feel people who are attracted to the american aesthetic are more likely to just wanna roll in without thinking.

[@ayeyochill5048]

@@Juel92 100 percent. Thats the issue all together with Top tier USA is there is only a small percentage of Players that actually uses their brain and understand the nation. And the the rest of players just cry and complain

[@bryanlara749]

As an American main, the Abrams are phenominal vehicles, its the players that play them that make them shit. What Justin said is 10000% correct, but he should have also included the KVT and Wolfpack in my opinion.

[@the_undisputed_king_5395]

They really aren’t that good if you ever play any of the high tier Leopards are what not. Plenty of tanks in game can do everything the Abrams tanks can do while simultaneously actually being able to survive getting shot on occasion

[@nattly6340]

yea i have played all top tier tanks and i have to say the M1 is not cooking, the leo and t-80s are much better, tho the chally is my fav for some reason

[@thatonelocalauthority2809]

@@the_undisputed_king_5395womp womp get good it isn’t hard, you have the best all rounder in the game 😂

[@eric8031]

@@the_undisputed_king_5395you say that but try being a Germany at top tier you will still die the same way I got the 2a7v n I most get one shot

[@hashbrown2911]

@@the_undisputed_king_5395 Abrams are objectively better than most top tier mbts, im not sure which tanks are better than the abrams except the leopard 2a7 and maybe t80 bvm

[@depressedodst2610]

With my bottle of vodka and my unwavering strength I shall single handedly raise the win rate of USA 🇺🇲💪🗿

[@aeromikel3199]

Vehicles r gud, players r bad, every nation go through dis (I too also bad)

[@robpom5501]

Not fully in this case USA does have the worst MBT's in game at the high end, now are they outright bad? nah though they're certainly not as good as the rest I mean damn even the Brits are better off as one for sure The Black Knight that is a solid tank and IMO the best they have and the matchmaker for the US does seem to be utter trash.

[@fboyg91]

@@robpom5501 imagine saying the US has the worst while the Ariete exists. The actual nerve. No, you don't have the worst tanks, you have the worst players. Ariete is worse by literally every metric and still has a better win rate. The tank is fine. US mains are bad at the game.

[@ANUBISseyes2]

@@robpom5501holy shit you US mains yap so much about getting the “worst” stuff all the time while the Ariete and the F4F KWS exists

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@fboyg91 "imagine saying the US has the worst while the Ariete exists." And they also currently have the best MBT "US mains are bad at the game." Oh? Why do they significantly outperform Germany and Russia (and was significantly more prior to the recent sales) at nearly every BR, except at actual top tier then? So somehow the US has some of the best players and then they get to top tier and suddenly suck and Germany somehow becomes amazing? Yea US mains aren't bad at the game, they all stopped playing the US because its a very meh top tier ATM.

[@robpom5501]

@@ANUBISseyes2 Nice assumption, shame you're not remotely close.

[@TimTheTinCan]

I’m going to blame the people (like me) that bought a top tier premium at lvl 15 and just die instantly, now that I’ve gotten tech tree 10.3 tanks it’s so noticeable when I watch a Wolfpack drive forwards and then cross directly in front enemies just to die instantly to a 50 cal. Also really sucks when match after match is just vs USSR and Germany whom none of the wolfpack spams know how to pen (granted they see the tank before 50 cal’d). 100% a problem, I’d say in the last 20 matches I’ve played as USA 2-5 were wins and a lot of them ended with myself and 3-5 other people still alive (which says a lot considering how bad I am at the game). Not to mention the amount of times I spawn in to 3 2S38’s spawn camping which is another massive problem…

[@PAllen74]

This is purely due to the players tbh. Other nations tend to have older players who have more vehicles to spawn in and normally more cas researched. Funny thing is, even a single player with an f16 can decimate an entire team. Will be interesting how win rates change as the premium players start to get further in the tech tree.

[@BlackWolf9988]

Pretty much this. I see american f16 wipe half of my team pretty regularly in 11.7.

[@TonyChristy-dy7qv]

You have to also remember that this game has turned into something that most of the Veteran US players did not ask to play and a lot of them just leave lobbies after the first death. Not everyone wanted to play Call Of Duty on Vehicles or Missile thunder so it should not be a surprise that numbers above 8.0 are plummeting or dropping. Also adding that a lot of folks above lvl 75 don't even play the US at all because Gaijin has crippled so many of the vehicles.

[@Amirteachingclub]

If spalling on abrams was as little as T80bvm or T90m, the issue would be alot easier to solve. I have had alot moments myself where I shot the loader side of the abrams (in the neck) and my magic 3bm60 created extra spall that killed gunner and commander too:) The damage model of abrams is way too weak.

[@turtledovechen176]

As a mostly top tier Air RB player, this gives me flash back to F-4S, or when the F-4F early came out Back then I regularly run into people who are asking in all chat what is radar, how to use missiles, even how to use landing gear Do agree that they should do more mix battle, in air RB nowadays almost all battle are mix, so when a new premium came out both side have tons of newbie, when there is something really strong both side will have them, which balance thing out

[@NotOlzen]

The example i always use is Italy (before the 2A7HU ofc), even though they had way worse MBT’s, no proper SPAA, worse CAS, yet their winrate was in the top 2 in the last patch. This is all about the players of top tier USA, its not just the tank, ofc having armour as good as the 2A7 is great, its not the cause of the low the winrate.

[@fboyg91]

Its worth pointing out Italy had an ok WR before the 2A7HU was added. Italy had the worst top tier lineup in the game and still did better than US teams.

[@NotOlzen]

@@fboyg91 like i said, italy was top two either last patch or the patch before, only sweden was above it, and it wasnt by alot. So yes that was before the 2A7HU. Not to mention Israel is another good example. Also does way better then the US with one of the worst top tier MBT’s, no SPAA, worse CAS, no light tanks at all. This winrate is not the fault of how good/bad the abrams is. Would it help if it had better survivability like a 2A7? Sure it would. But the winrate would still be awful because the average US player in their 1 death leave clickbait will still lose you the game because its like half of your team.

[@fboyg91]

@@NotOlzen facts

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@NotOlzen That because you can't understand how its possible for Italy to have a higher WR. All the data prior to the 2A7HU states Italy had some 500 - 800 battles played, meaning firstly they are an outlier, their really isn't enough games played to show that Italy is somehow that good, secondly e also know they always get paired with nations that have high WRs to start off with i.e. if Italy played with the US often, then according to your logic it wouldn't be possible for their WRs to be so good, get it? Looking at the data we can see that Britain and Israel mostly play with the US as it shows in their WRs, which is interesting because Israel is also an outlier, but going by their data, their players aren't actually all that different to Italian players in how they perform. The US sucks because all the US players left after the SEPv2, coupled with the fact that their player base is now mostly full of premium players who die and leave, yea, it isn't surprising the US sucks at top tier.

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@fboyg91 "Italy had the worst top tier lineup in the game and still did better than US teams." Because they were likely always facing the US and being teamed with Germany or Russia.....

[@DarkTwo]

I have been grinding out the usa tree since I got this game years ago. After all this time of grinding to finally reach top tier and now I dont want to play anymore because usa teammates are terrible, you lose every match and I dont have the time or willpower to grind another tree.

[@almightytwinkie2171]

Nah, it ain't the vehicle, it's the players. The Abrams is the most utilitarian of all the MBTs, which makes it hard to play at a low to average skill level. You can't overly rely on armor, only its speed, firepower, and reload. Get used to it, and you can keep up with other nations kill for kill

[@DukusOctaviosthe8th]

I'm a Russian main and I realised USA it's good it's just it's players and no matter how good you are neither you get lucky and get a good team to help you or you get a nuke and win the match solo And that's another reason why I didn't get any Europe or America vehicles BC teams are dumb stupider than my dog than a monkey...

[@yowaddup5649]

If Italy top tier players were given the Abrams , they’d absolutely tear shit apart. It definitely is a skill thing.

[@the_undisputed_king_5395]

@@yowaddup5649most of Italy’s top tier players have played the Abrams lol. Factions like Italy that have good win rates despite subpar vehicles are specifically because those factions are only played by experienced players for the most part. Same thing with Sweden for example but Sweden has a lot more meta vehicles than Italy so Swedish players are even more of a menace at some BRs

[@Iden_in_the_Rain]

If you can’t rely on the armor, you’re better off playing Japan. The Abrams shouldn’t just be a crappier Type 10/90

[@almightytwinkie2171]

@Iden_in_the_Rain the armor is actually fairly protective where it's present. It's good at catching poorly placed shots. On top of that, the Abrams has the edge in pen, post-pen damage, top speed, and total ammo count. The Abrams is the only MBT that can safely carry 35+1 shots in the turret, letting it be far more independent and versatile in the field. The Type 10 needs to hover around control points for ammunition

[@fousca]

I think the best way to fix this problems and the other premiums is to just make a different matchmaking/queueing for premiums. Or make a "Competitive" matchmaking, which would have a minimum lvl requirement, or simply to have a minimum battles played on the vehicle they're playing so that a lvl 13 premium wouldn't be able to be put in the same matchmaking as a lvl 100 that knows every cheeky spot in the game

[@Panocek]

Account level says absolutely nothing about quality of the player, just how many times they pressed "battle" button.

[@fousca]

@@Panocek True, but at the very least higher level players have more knowledge than lower level players. You have no reason to make a new account to smurf because the matchmaking wouldn't be that much of a difference

[@jonathans.955]

The funny thing is, it's not even the vehicles. They have a decent tank. It's not the greatest, not the worst. They have a good AA, and they have good cas options. It's mainly the top tier premiums that mess it up

[@ireallycant4416]

I’m starting to think you never played American tech tree nor you read the rest of the comment and just straight up use this cheap gaslight

[@shardr7983]

Found the 4.0 US player

[@INeatFreak]

Good AA? Lmao

[@jonathans.955]

@INeatFreak better than stuff like the Otomaric or the German one

[@jonathans.955]

@INeatFreak also an AA to fight tanks? Count me in

[@Apex_warthunder]

Just fucking buff it, imagine if it was russia with a 33% wr, they wouldve gotten soooo many buffs

[@jspene]

Abrams is the best MBT in game aside from the Leopards and T series, it’s just the players that are bad.

[@triparadox.c]

Economically and time wise, it's the best way to unlock everything as fast as possible. To buy top tier and quickly enjoy all the content on that tech tree The 20 back ups are nothing

[@Janno32_]

The issue is that all players who have multiple nations at the top tier are usually the most skilled ones, meaning because it is not fun to play the USA, they all play other nations, and only the ones who have only America stay, and they are less skilled than the more experienced players. It is essentially brain drain for War Thunder.

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

Gaijin needs to make backups for premiums infinite. Because honestly 20 backups isn’t enough, and you don’t earn backups at the rate which you spend them. I am a veteran player and when they added the ability to consume backups while in a match, I used a ton of them, and now I am out of backups. I don’t think new players like leaving after a single death, because I certainly don’t. They just have no choice.

[@Runswithfoot]

it hurts me to play usa now, im always the last person in the game left on team and everyone leaves after 1 death, they need to rework ground rb and make it so u have 2 of the first tank u pick to respawn with or something.

[@maxwiener3612]

The problem is that the players always only want to be top tier (which I can understand) it's fun in a certain way, but it's tiring for people when you know that if you have Americans on your team it's a 99, 95% defeat is and that's just the problem for me: it hasn't been regulated when you buy a top tank and you're immortal. That's why the "oh so difficult" grind is there because you get to know the vehicles. But people will never understand that anyway, they'd rather spend €70/€35 to get up quickly and show off to their friends.

[@captaindutch3202]

I almost have that problem all of the time at almost every br where I'm basically the only one left on my team

[@UnsweetenedTeaBags]

The only reason I stick with the U.S. tech tree is because it has all of my favorite vehicles in it. The P-40, F-4 Phantom, A-10, F-15, M4A3 76mm, Chaffee, M26 and all its variants, but most of all the Huey’s, Cobras, and Black Hawk. If all of these were in a different nation I’d swap

[@dadistos4538]

Every time I play top tier and I get USA on my team, half of them are one spawn Clickbait players or one spawn AIM players

[@dentist-chan]

I hate myself for maining US. Should've picked the snails child like my friend suggested. I'm up to 11.3 lineups (researching sep rn) and OH MY GOD I CANNOT FUCKING WINNNNN. Half the team is gone in less than 3 minutesssssssss. AAAAAAAAAAH

[@F-18Super]

The average WT player is TERRIBLE so couple that with US being the most common starter nation, it makes sense.

[@Floopuss]

It’s definitely the player base, I very much enjoy the abrams and have good games in them but after I die once there is only 5 people left in the game.

[@nymeric5833]

They need to make it so if you have only above rank 7, you can spawn it 3 times, similar to how it works for the M-51 for Israel.

[@ZH5768]

I think that the best solution is to restrict certain ranks (like rank 6 for example) and higher ranks until you reach AT LEAST level 50. By that time someone would reach rank 6 in the TT and would have a good understanding of the game until they get a premium. I know it's not as fun to have to grind but to be honest it's the best solution for everyone to not have a level 10 person playing the click-bait and dying after one death.

[@stranger299a]

Everyone should stop playing cas if you dislike one death leaving because you are part of the problem

[@AwolMedal27]

I understand why buying a premium isn’t a good idea for new players. But I’m a firm believer in learning the hard way. On WT I have around 800+ hours. And when I started I bought a premium jet and grinded. And then Just recently I started playing ground battles. I’m almost 11.7 USSR and almost 11.7 Sweden from buying premiums. And yeah it took a while too get a better grasp of the game but now I think of my self as a “mid tier” player. I’m not insanely good but I avg 3-7 kills a match and have a pretty good understanding of how the game is played. Moral of the story is buying premiums isn’t always bad.

[@mattmaurer2053]

The fact that we can't get the A3 round for the Abrams that was designed to defeat russian era is mind-blowing. They have nerfed every aspects of the M1 which is fine its a game, but they nerf hammer has not been given out equally. Sweeden, Germany, Russia all have had nerfs in some way but nowhere near the level the US has gotten it. That plus the 1 spawn players you get 32% win rate.

[@mujexzilla]

What do you expect? The Abrams tanks are the worst mbt's in the game. No spall liner, the turret ring weakspot, nato hump, weak'ish lower plate and let's not forget the fucking CLICK BAIT which single handedly killed US top tier. Oh and not only USA, but any nation that gets paired with USA. I grinded israel recently and almost every single time I got paired with USA, I lost those games. So not only do you get punished when you play USA, you also get punished when you play alongside USA. It's depressing. I also think people need to stop playing the Abrams as a frontline tank and instead play it, as much as possible, as a hulldown tank destroyer, if better armor won't help it then perhaps playing it as conservatively as humanly possible, might.

[@Panocek]

Map designers: I've heard you want city brawls so you will have city brawls.

[@benraynor-]

Honestly I’ve stopped playing top tier entirely and went back to my 6.7 tiger lineup and I’ve had the most fun I’ve had in months playing this game. Top tier is just not it right now

[@Ardi.Ramadhan]

I just don't know how to play abrams. its weakness is just very easy to shoot and it's like those engines' sound is begging for early death in every battle.

[@woahdude3853]

Not to mention they wont fix the shot trap is supposed to shatter the apfsds and they wont give a 120mm to the abrams at 10.0 or 10.3

[@ronf8017]

It's that moment when you ask yourself why is the entire enemy team targeting me? Thats when you Tab out to find 90% of your team has died and left the match ant it all began with the XM-1. The XM-1 wasn't even a Pay to win vehicle it's just a Pay to Top Tier experience.

[@eutoteu5680]

I play low to mid tier , so far I don't have anything past tier 4 , I am having fun . I can't even imagine myself at high tiers .

[@Ackz89]

This was previously an issue at 10.0 or previously 9.7, which was fine because it was just the premium BR which left top tier alone. Its infuriating when ive grinded a whole line up of tanks, heli, cas etc and my team is just one and done premiums.. the addition of clickbaits and 11/11.3 premiums its totally ruining the experience. Obviously the solution would be to not sell top tier premiums but we all know that wont happen - so, the only way to level it all out is treat ground rb like air rb, every nation on both sides! It doesnt have to be germany/russia vs everyone else. I enjoy playing sweden, but i cant stand the permant usa team up. Usa isnt even that bad as a nation, if they all had full line ups and used cas it would be great, but man, no one brings anything in and they dont know the maps angles/kill areas because its classed as the new user friendly nation.. i feel like theyre all moving off usa now onto russia or germany, even japan when i play i see level15s with less than 100 games in ground rb on the fuji?!

[@DaSteeJ07]

Top tier US has been bad even before the KVT. It is the Abrams itself. Everyone says “oh US players suck they don’t rush they just camp in spawn all game.” But the fact of the matter is you cannot rush with Abrams. It is a terrible knife fighter and cannot 1v1 anything. It is incredibly easy to disable and has serious armor disadvantages against anything it faces.

[@ackbar03]

as a guys who grind US, I played M1A1 HC, M3A3 Bradley and Striker I really hate people plays Click-Bait

[@Dr.SwagPHDinDrip]

I don’t have problems if you’re gonna buy a premium. But if you’re a bumbling buffoon who doesn’t know how to tank or plane. Then I have a problem, and that goes for any rank. As Spookston says “A lot of these players don’t have drivers licenses, and it shows.”

[@SprayandPrayman22]

Hot take: The Abrams is a Type 10 that traded rate of fire for turret armor.

[@24YOA]

My 🇫🇷 Leclerc winrate is 67%. Thank you 🇺🇲 for your sacrifice.