America's Decline into Paganism | John Daniel Davidson of The Federalist

America is sinking into pagan practices and beliefs. While Americans may not use the same language as the ancient pagans, John Daniel Davidson believes that the central pagan creed is present: there is no truth, everything is permitted. Liberalism had attempted to create neutral spaces, but as those spaces become more fought over, the only rationale can be one's own power. Dr. Andrew Willard Jones and John Daniel Davidson discuss the roots of a pagan worldview, the extent to which America is pagan, and how Christians should approach the pagan political order.
Get his book "Pagan America" here: a.co/d/5JOzwAx

[@Lycurgus1982]

It isn't a decline. It's a return.

[@Alien1375]

*restoration

[@krileayn]

Return to hell ?

[@Lycurgus1982]

@@krileaynno. Hell would be a christian idea, wouldn't it?

[@krileayn]

@@Lycurgus1982 Indeed. Christians warn against it.

[@snehashispanda4808]

Christians used to justify the destruction of pagan temples, claiming to be reclaiming the property. They enacted various anti-pagan laws, including those forbidding pagan sacrifice and the worship of pagan images, punishable by death, and mandating the closure of all temples. Anti-pagan policies were repeatedly enforced, and penalties were increased over time. The rapid decline of European paganism can be attributed to the intolerance of Christianity. European paganism was met with intolerance from the Church.

[@mitchelweaver6801]

It's disingenuous to say that historical pagans believed "there is no truth, everything is permitted." Some may have believed that, but plenty didn't. Plato, Aristotle, the Pythagoreans, and the Stoics were all pagan and they most certainly believed in truth and moral standards.

[@paulcupp]

Which is why the Pagans murdered their best philosophers. Socrates poisoned and Aristotle had to flee Athens. Cicero was killed by the republic he sought to defend.

[@sonsofyngve]

​@@paulcuppChristians don't keep to their standards either. Does that mean Christians do not have standards? Jesus was a worthless nobody from an inferior culture that accomplished nothing of note.

[@mongolianqwerty123]

@@sonsofyngve and yet he somehow became the most significant figure of the last 2000 yrs, radically impacting world-history. Makes you wonder if there may have been something to the guy after all...

[@sonsofyngve]

@@mongolianqwerty123 we know nothing about the guy and what he taught. We only have what others say he taught and they did not stop the evolution of the message. So he made very little to no impact. He was not Alexander or Julius Caesar.

[@mongolianqwerty123]

@@sonsofyngve Looked at in that way, the same can be said for Socrates or Confucius or any other spiritual and intellectual giants of history who did not personally preserve their teachings in writing - even then what are we trusting for verification? the consensus of experts? that is yet another appeal to authority after the fact. All recorded myth could simply be a horrible bastardisation, a disfigurement of earlier truth for malignant purposes. History itself is highly dubious and subject to corruption and omission. My point is that even the "invention" of Christ would be such a miraculous achievement of the imagination that it shifted the consciousnesses of entire civilisations. The mere possibility of the Christ-event was powerful enough to alter world-history. And personally, I don't believe we humans had the ability to fabricate such a profundity on our own.

[@SL-es5kb]

I know a materialist magician! He’s a professor who focuses on Freudian psychoanalysis of literature and he calls himself a pagan but believes the deities are just our projected meaning on immaterial forces.

[@tribaldefender473]

It wouldn't be a decline, more like an upgrade.

[@fratercorleonis]

Right you are!

[@anthonycostello6055]

Also, see T.S. Eliot's "The Idea of A Christian Society" where he, like Chesterton, argues that any Christian nation that rejects Christianity will by default revert to Paganism.

[@a.psquickview2071]

America has never been a Christian nation... never!

[@fratercorleonis]

Even if it had been, times change....

[@thumbstruck]

The framers were mostly deists.

[@ciaranmeeks9431]

All Christian societies have also featured brutality and abuse of power as major problems historically. Consider the horrors of the Inquisition, the deplorable and inhumane treatment of the peasant class by the 'nobility" over the centuries, and the treatment of (ironically) often comparably less brutal though primitive peoples by those who have come bearing the Cross. Don't get me wrong - I'm no anti-Christian and I don't mention these atrocities to antagonize Christians or to distract from the genuine truth of how utterly awful the Pagan empires of old truly were, but rather to keep things honest and expand the discussion by acknowledging that perhaps something deeper even than religion is the real problem. Because when analyzed honestly, there doesn't seem to be a single Faith, era, or society throughout human history that hasn't gone through periods of engaging in monstrous behaviour. Including now.

[@thewitchandhare]

You are absolutely right, these guys are leaving out very important facts in this discussion. It's all biases.

[@RossArlenTieken]

The point is not that Christians are not capable of massive sin, but that it has the moral framework to always call itself out of sin, and critique itself based on sin. For instance, you are now critiquing Christianity from within a Christian moral framework.

[@thewitchandhare]

@@RossArlenTieken The guys in this very video describe the Pagan world as brutal and violent, as if Christianity wasn't responsible for brutality and violence throughout history. Seriously, listen to how they address it. It's disgusting. What you are describing might be one interpretation but it is not what these guys are saying or believe in. Also Christian moral framework... morals exist beyond Christianity

[@williambuysse5459]

We need a return to nature or paganism in order to know who we are by nature without which grace could not integrate and elevate nature. Machiavelli is the mind behind modernity by rejecting the ontological priority of ends. A recovery of nature is a common human need.

[@TheMac813]

I'm not sure if I'm following Davidson's assertion that America had a 'Christian" people. When he says "Christian" does he mean the Puritans in New England, the Quakers in PA, the Anglicans in NY, or the Baptists in the South? These Protestant Sects had so many differences on what entails a Political Order. Not only that, there was much Calvinism imbued within. I'm going with Charles Coulombe on this one and saying that this was a Puritans empire. The guest also failed to explain why Founders had to revolt against the order of the Crown in the First Place.

[@MaryC-co8fm]

Great points. America was doomed from the start because it rejected Catholicism and was built on a rebellion against the Pope. One of the main reasons for the American Revolution is that the Crown was liberalizing its laws banning Catholicism in Canada. The Founders didn't want that in the colonies. In the US, Catholicism was banned for years and Catholics brutally persecuted.. Even when legalized, Catholic churches were still burned down, which is why Catholic Churches situated their churches in residential areas (to try to deter the arson, although it didn't necessarily help). The US required public education not out of concern for the citizens; it was begun in order to turn Catholics away from their Church by mocking "Popery" in the schools and our Sacraments. This is why the Catholic school system started: as an alternative to Protestant public schools. Because of all of this (and so much more), the US was not a true Christian nation and was doomed to fail at some point.

[@jasonpastoor5295]

I'm going with Samuel P. Huntington's "Who Are We", with America being settled by Protestants and having a Protestant value system/creed. Catholics are outside of this American value system but have assimilated to it over the years.

[@KajiRider1997]

or those people who don't like black people and burn crosses?

[@janetmunday1100]

Modern pagan society: yoga and reiki.

[@charlesodonnell2993]

Rome's decline into Christianity has been incredibly destructive.

[@MoveInSilence23]

...they invented Christianity (the most destructive force this world has seen).

[@fratercorleonis]

How right you are.

[@wishIwuzskiing]

There are so many excellent points and keen observations to make on this video. One that I thought of regarding the point at about 20 minutes, in regard to the powerful not pressing their advantage, was the old Europe tradition from France, a very Catholic France at that time, was the tradition of "Noblesse Oblige" which was the implicit obligation of the nobility to take on social responsibilities.

[@joane24]

As far as I remember, this was a general idea of being bestowed with power. Kings, aristocracy - you were obliged to use that privilege to serve others. Of course, in practice we all know human nature is fallible, but that was the idea. That's why the kings power was also 'anointed' by God (and of course there was centuries long competition/discourse about the mutual relations and power between the kings and bishops, secular power and religious power), and this was also one of the points the French Revolution rebelled against, wasn't it?

[@wishIwuzskiing]

@@joane24 There are examples and truly benevolent, generous and gracious kings and queens and others who were definitely corrupt. Such is the nature of the human person and the internal battle between good and evil in each person. When grace prevails, everyone benefits greatly. The French Revolution was responding to corruption, but the cure ended up being worse than the disease because they tossed out the baby with the bathwater, trying to build on foundations of sand. If we don't accept that there is objective truth given to us by the One who made us, and we are left to our own devices to choose what we will, there is an inevitable drift toward what we prefer vs. what we ought to do, a drift to the powerful writing and enforcing the rules.

[@Jkp1321]

35:05 The fact that this is verbatim "The Creed' from the video game series "Assassin's Creed" is astonishing. I do not think Davidson was aware of this. It's especially fascinating because of how anti-Catholic that series is.

[@veronica_._._._]

This is a direct quote from the actual Historical Assassins, which yin-yanged between fanatical islam under one leader, and then the opposite overswing of what you quoted, a manic demonic pendulum, so yeah it's an endless regress for that quote. Eg, gnostic elite level licence, and so as old as sin.

[@EspadaKing777]

​@@veronica_._._._ I can't find any sources that have it as a direct quote. The origin of the quote seems to be the novel "Alamut", which in turn might have gotten it from either the work of Silvestre Sacy or Gustav Flügel. The Assassin's Creed game series directly got it from "Alamut". either way, the *earliest* source for the quote is the 19th Century, essentially 1000 years removed from the group in question. Davidson might cite a different source in his book, so I'd need someone else to confirm that; but as far as I am aware this quotation is just an orientalist fiction.

[@veronica_._._._]

@@EspadaKing777 Do you read Arabic or Farsi?

[@EspadaKing777]

@@veronica_._._._ unfortunately I do not. Do you have a 8th or 9th century source in Arabic for the quotation? Because if you do just link it to me and I'll go investigate 😀

[@veronica_._._._]

@@EspadaKing777 It's ancient, Artabanus first used the phrase, sufism is an ancient gnosticism. Islam and the Umma are it's outer shell.

[@johnsayre2038]

" there is no neutral ground". Well said.

[@dynmicpara]

OBEY GOD John 3:16 and our country will not be a hell entrance hole. Go find a Deliverance minister and watch him cast out supernatural evil demons from a victim if you fantasize good and evil somehow don't exist. WE ATTACK! John 3:16 Semper Airborne! James Bond is REAL

[@prolelog]

I really enjoyed your discussion, but am a little confused at around the 52 minute mark when you talk about the dissolution of the family which pagan-like belief demands: “Don’t get too attached.” -one could argue just as forcefully that Christian belief also demands that, if need be, families turn on one another when it comes to deciding their loyalty to God or bloodlines.

[@tourist1313]

I really enjoyed this conversation. It helped clarify and spur further contemplation on this subject.

[@patricklewis9787]

Idk I think our current state of America was inevitable. The founding fathers’ first and foremost priority of this country is essentially to just do whatever you want but don’t worry it’s about muh freedom

[@DesertRat.45]

You are beyond incorrect.

[@vinnyv949]

I do agree that the current state of America was inevitable because Godless, or liberal, or large democracies will always collapse. I don’t agree our founding fathers foremost priority was do what ever you want. They knew America couldn’t last if it wasn’t anchored to the natural moral law. But the radical egalitarian language they used and uncoupling the federal government from God and His religion will always lead to this current state. The secular state will always grab power and negatively lead people to perdition rolling over the Church in the process.

[@patricklewis9787]

@@DesertRat.45Incorrect about what? Look around you, at our country, am I wrong?

[@vanfja]

It is the ultimate end point of the enlightenment. The US was the experiment of enlightenment ideas and this is the natural result.

[@Forester-]

​@patricklewis9787 I don't think that was the intention of the founders but it may be the inevitable outcome of the system they created.

[@simonluzny2487]

Absolutely phenomenal talk, both of the speakers are doing a great job!

[@NewPolityPodcast]

You can get a copy of John’s new book “Pagan America” here: Pagan America: a.co/d/5JOzwAx

[@MrBAD2THEBONE03]

Hansel and Gretel is a story that does say it is better for us to due together than one to hoard things and the other to starve... I thought that was a cool link there.

[@Probably_Dumb]

You guys should really be in conversation with the CREC crowd in Moscow Idaho. They're protestant, but they are speaking in very much a similar way about this stuff. I would love to listen to you compare notes with them.

[@franka792]

The concepts are absolutely true and everyone should know this. I’m in 100% agreement. But as I listened I realized talking about it for two hrs and giving dozens of examples of how it is true became agonizingly repetitive. Assertion, agreement, examples , wash rinse repeat.

[@GMLFire]

The best way to learn is repetition.

[@franka792]

@@GMLFire But once you understand. More examples do not help you understand more betterer. Lol. If ya got it, then ya got it. Ya get it? Or should I explain?

[@christianmadore7574]

I just want everyone to know that I wanted to podcast about 'That Hideous Strength' before that was a thing.

[@henrythejames7]

What is the book that includes the martyrdom of Polycarp? I'd like to read that

[@williambranch4283]

Penguin (publisher) Book of Early Christian Writings.

[@Nerian-pp5ee]

Bronze Age Mindset is a self conscious affirmation of the pagan worldview and all it entails about power as you discussed here

[@1956paterson]

This Bonaventure Option raises interesting questions. Which state in the American constitutional republic could be used to begin the restoration of Christendom and this would require a mere Christianity that is inter-denominational and yet respects the other Christian traditions within the boundaries of the three Ecumenical Creeds.

[@kevinpulliam3661]

Mere Christianity caused the return of paganism. It’s not good enough

[@jasonpastoor5295]

Why a constitutional state? Why not a U.S. territory like Puerto Rico? Catholics do well south of the border.

[@CarapaceClavicle]

Excellent discussion. I don't see much that can be disagreed with, unfortunately in my experience I don't think the people who actually need to take this discussion to heart would be able to get past the language being used. Demons, for instance, sound completely false to a materialist who has a Kindergarten-level understanding of theology. Either way I'm sharing it with my friends. Please pray that they don't outright reject it and think it's just crazy talk.

[@GMLFire]

Pray for them first, and for yourself to have the words for discussion.

[@mod149]

1:17:33 What does Jones mean by "Christianity makes the natural law live-able again"? Is it because we are fallen creatures who aren't able to discern the natural law "written on our hearts" so that Christianity comes along with healing and salvation through divine law and grace of Jesus Christ?

[@caseymisssarah1757]

I am not sure if all of what they discuss is true but even if only 50% is true it is scary. I do believe that the fall of Christianity is having an effect on our society and America as a country founded on the teachings of Christian morality has slowly gone away. Sin is powerful and unless you have a belief that God exists and that sin is bad we as humans will seek power, pleasure, win at all costs, etc. I do not see things in this world getting better.

[@dynmicpara]

Let's ATTACK: OBEY GOD John 3:16 and our country will not be a hell entrance hole. Go find a Deliverance minister and watch him cast out supernatural evil demons from a victim if you fantasize good and evil somehow don't exist.

[@a.psquickview2071]

Genocide and slavery aren't moral, and that's what America was built on.

[@kyleelsbernd7566]

Great discussion. Christianity is Plato for the masses. That quote says a lot.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

Yes! And Plato is Pythagorean. We can FIX this. Fixing this is in our powers. We cannot fix this "online."

[@jamesmerone]

Christ is King

[@MaryC-co8fm]

Amen

[@saileshray9840]

Christ is stupid

[@Alien1375]

Praise Amaterasu! ⛩️

[@pablocruz9462]

Thanks

[@whateverman13]

Prior to Christ, can the angels have influenced different societies? For example, angels had to inspire Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle's philosophies. Principalities, Archangels, and Angels, the lower choir of angels, also served on Earth for God.

[@mongolianqwerty123]

Rudolf Steiner, the Christian Anthroposophist, extensively looks into the guiding angels of nations and eras. It's well worth seeking out his lectures and publications on the subject. He is a controversial thinker, but a fascinating one even to the incredulous

[@RosieJ7223]

Hmmm…that’s got me thinking! Great question.

[@dynmicpara]

Excellent question. What did God do with all the lost peoples while his Israeli experiment played out until the 33 A.D. Gospel John 3:16 pardon? Or more upstream, Ham and Japheth while he tinkered within Shem's lineage? We tackled this in Bible college. Before the Gospel, if you lived a moral life according to your conscience, your life's audition will be accepted by God--things fundies go beserk over because they are hateful snobs. God's mercy is greater than we want to accept but not compromising with evil.

[@jonmeador8637]

We've declined into fundamentalism .The Founders would not recognize nor tolerate fundamentalism in any form whether islamic or christian. Religion must be regulated today as it was in 1787.

[@vedranandric700]

What does that mean to regulate religion? And what is fundamentalist in your point of view?

[@jonmeador8637]

@@vedranandric700 The Founders regulated religion in 1787. For example, religious evangelizing wasn't tolerated. You could be arrested for disorderly conduct. Additionally, fundamentalist believe there are no contradictions in the Bible because it's god's word. That the Bible is perfectly consistent is a lie. Belief in the inerrancy of the Bible has no bearing on whether there is a god.

[@fratercorleonis]

Cope and seethe, Galileans. The Burning Times shall never return!

[@dynmicpara]

Both men need to read Gary North's "Conspiracy in Philadelphia" to fix their erroneous views on Amerika Babylon.

[@TheDomVerde]

Where does 1 Thessalonians 4:11,12 fit in with this St.Boniface option, or so called?

[@dynmicpara]

The Roman Empire was so busy pleasuring themselves they didn't figure out fire propelled machines to have an industrial age after over 1, 000 years whereas just 300x years after the King James Bible's decency and self-control was spread globally, the U.K. had the amazing harnessing of the machine.

[@kenofken9458]

Christianity was in charge of the West for 13 centuries before the first viable steam engine was crated. It took a thousand years for Christian Europe to even get back to the level of development and technology that Pagan Rome had in its day.

[@FrostFang86]

​@@kenofken9458 I always found it fascinating that ancient civilizations had invented batteries so long ago; it's quite obvious they knew about electricity and used it. Add to that America was founded on pagan philosophies and principles such as platonicism. Our mathematical system uses pagan concepts such as the Pathygorean theorem. We could go on and on about how many pagan concepts are in our society. Heathenry will never die.

[@ValHarmonic]

What is "Cisaronian ruse" exactly? (1:10)

[@thewitchandhare]

I am open to discussions like these because I want to know other perspectives of my own spirituality. Paganism is not a rejection of God, Athiesm is an outright rejection of God. Like delibrately! Have you ever noticed.... People are not forced or pestered to convert to Paganism... people fall into paganism naturally. They might discover it and connect with it so deeply, it is a beautiful thing almost as if paganism is humanities natural state. Throughout this interview you guys speculate about paganism but it sounds like you've never had a genuine discussion with a pagan. Everything you are talking about is through a Christian lens so this feels very biased honestly. Are you looking for real discussions or are you just looking for confirmation biases? The pagan world was brutal and violent... Christian world was also brutal and violent... I think this just means that humans are brutal and violent, nothing to do with religion. About sacrifice.... the answer he gave was a christian answer??? Go ask a Pagan or better yet, A HISTORIAN! Please! "Because demons love the destruction of the innocent" how about get a real answer from someone who ACTUALLY knows the answer this why sacrifice was a thing. Abortion is equated to pagan sacrifice.... guys why arent you discussing why a woman would get one in the first place? Like sure being able to do in on a whim is questionable but the actual real reasons why someone might need an abortion, sexual assault cases, the mother might die etc are very important parts of this discussion that is missing here. It has nothing to do with paganism, it's about a woman being able to have a say in her own health. It's about whether or not giving birth is going ruin her life or not, which is something you guys will never have to experience. Not in a shallow way "doing it for my acting career" for the more serious stuff where abortion is going to be used for the most. You guys need to realize that everything you are saying is not fact, merely uneducated or biased opinion. Some things you've said here had my jaw dropping to the floor lol Can't believe some of the things said about us here. To conclude I feel like the decline of Christianity is a natural decline because of how things are changing in the world. We are trying to make society better for everyone. It will never be perfect, but under Christian rule people did suffer too. Change is a good thing.

[@abramgaller2037]

That is interesting, no where in the Bible does say that pagan gods (demons) don't exist.

[@TheDomVerde]

Corporate wage slavery is the epitome of enlightenment paganism...some luxuries are afforded the slaves to motivate the pursuit of infinite economic growth.

[@mod149]

1:40:00 What about Jonestown? Not "prickly" enough.

[@calvinholt5630]

Great discussion, it’s got me fired up! I love the call to action.

[@RosieJ7223]

“Sorta the plot of the Bible” 😆🙊💀 Yup!

[@leecheong4986]

Romans 1:18-32

[@VisibleEntertainer]

kids already self described pagans

[@patrickparris8]

Missed three. The old man was highly impressive

[@stefanionutalexandru6916]

The turks were also very tolerant to Jews and Christians, and compared to the genocidal societies in the West that destroyed entire civilizations , the ottomans coexistence of religion is remarkable even by modern standards in some societies of the modern world. This is just cristo fascism, kind of like what the Saudis or iran have with theyr religion, but you do have some interesting elements regarding paganism that are very poorly pursued. I was hoping for more of an analytical and comparative analisis regarding power and faith through out different civilizations that can be compared to present societies and theyr effects , but it's interesting to see unfulfilled zealots that want to impose theyr ideas on others, but at least we do agree on the point of sacrifice of life, which is one of the most idtic irrational barbaric and intolerable things one can do . But remember, Christians although not sacrificing goats, they did commit a whole lot of genocide , grief and destruction that very few societies can compete with in terms of atrocities. But that's what power seeker do, cherry pick arguments and burie the inconvenient events that could perturbe theyr agenda. Killing in the name of God I suppose, im sure God sure is pleased by your work. And regarding ww2, I want to remind you, although i have a visceral displeadment of russia and China, those 2 countries actually did all 5he heavy lifting of ww2. The americans just gave the russians and Chinese guns to get slaughter by 5he tens of millions just for 5he us with its 500k deaths to swoop in and dominate the globe after.

[@marycooper8385]

Interesting discussion

[@The_Novu]

Hypocrisy.

[@josefdawson5284]

I'd be interested in a new polity discussion of violence & the ethics surrounding it's proper use, especially political violence e.g. palestinian freedom fighters vs israeli suppression thereof. Revolutionary violence. War of the Vendee-style violent revolt. Police violence. Violent protest. It seems like it's sometimes unavoidable or right, but current christian or catholic rhetoric seems to sometimes border on or lean into pro-violence rhetoric in a way that seems... uncharitable? not good? The tail end of this episode almost seems to advocate that maybe.

[@ChucksExotics]

This is silly. "Paganism" doesn't mean anything other than not Christianity. This is not a thesis. You're just saying we can choose Christianity or not Christianity. Duh. I get it that basically everything is a religion ultimately. Veganism, atheism, love of money, politics, etc... so you're just reframing everything not Christian as pagan. Okay.

[@KajiRider1997]

Paganism comes from Paganum. a ancient roman word for ''from the country'' so it does mean more than just ''not christian.''

[@ChucksExotics]

@@KajiRider1997 I know the etymology. In a religious context Christians simply call everyone not Christian a pagan. No one is using pagan today to mean country people. You are confusing the etymology of a word with its current use in a language, its current use defines it's meaning, not it's ancient etymology in a different language. Gay originally meant happy, now it means homosexual.

[@charliejackson5492]

Quick correction in friendly way it is Extern/Non Beleifs of the west like Europe and North Africa outside of hebraism during and before and after CULTianity the like invaded. That's that

[@ChucksExotics]

@@charliejackson5492 what?

[@elizabethkale7044]

Secularism is paganism. Period. Just a name that makes it seem better

[@xyleblack2545]

That statement doesn't make sense.

[@joane24]

Very interesting conversation! And, hands down, one of the best conversations I've heard in some time. - Very interesting point about the correlation of between the natural law and just society, and how that's possible within and thanks to Christianity, but at the same time, Christianity allows for that structure to not contain its own source. Which is, basically, reflecting how God created us, humans, isn't it?🙃 Through God our nature is perfected, and/but e're endowed with freedom to choose. Same with society - if we construct social structures that guarantee innate freedom, there might be consequences of using that freedom to rebel and self-destruct. But: (now a bit of critique) - That laughing is, I'm sorry to say, quite annoying. Please, just own what you're saying. That laughing gives me aj impression of something in between nervousness and arogance. Just own what you're saying. And sorry for a personal critique, but that was really disturbing the listening process. - Don't glorify America as a saviour of Europe🙄. Don't forget that you got Christianity from us. We were Christian long before you, and many countries are still relatively strongly Catholic or Orthodox. Belgium or Netherlands is not the whole of Europe. We were long 'civilized' and Christian long before you, so please don't act as if you brought a fire to an uncivilized land of barbarians🙄.

[@kyleelsbernd7566]

Agree that we’re pagans. Superman and the Marvel Universe are modern iterations of pagan gods. Stories with symbolic power, everyone knows that.

[@veronica_._._._]

Grant Morrison's intention.

[@MRdaBakkle]

That's really wild considering that the creator of Superman is Jewish and drew on Jewish mythology for the character. Your ridiculous if you think this. MCU DCU it's just entertainment. That's it.

[@veronica_._._._]

@@MRdaBakkle Cherry picking aaand from way back in WWII? Really? Oh.... Kaaay swiftly moving on ... Neil Gaimon Alan Moore and already mentioned Morrison et al, all the comic book "British invasion" push occult themes and/or are Occultists. Go to a Comicon and ask them yourself, or read decades of interviews. It's Hollowood that's amped it up tho.

[@veronica_._._._]

@@MRdaBakkle 👻ed - deleted but undefeated.Yay! Grant Morrison Neal Gaimon Alan Moore Read any interview. Read an actual book

[@veronica_._._._]

@@MRdaBakkle Your definition of Jewish Mythology is?

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

We can FIX this. We cannot fix this "online."

[@KajiRider1997]

Again sounds like a call to violence. but you're irish so it makes sense. probably drunken violence.

[@chipious9736]

This is dumb. You argue that there is only two sides however it’s the same coin. The only way one Faith can dominate all is by silencing all other options. Good luck with that.

[@RosieJ7223]

Nobody here wants to dominate and simply “wipe out” the other. That’s what pagans do. When Christians give into their pagan desires, they cease acting like Christ…and I think the New Polity folks speak and write explicitly about that. They admonish Christians for acting like pagans and propose a new way…which is actually old.. it’s simply the Way of Christ. At least that’s what I’ve gathered from their articles and podcasts.

[@7QHook]

this video can help explain why that isn't how it works aHK4Irp_pUE

[@benjaminwood8126]

The essence of Christianity is devoid of the "might makes right" ethos. It's not about one religion dominating the other, per se. The outlook of Christians has always been a willingness to suffer and sacrifice for the True, the Good, and the Beautiful. The human heart (whether Pagan or not) is always wooed and persuaded by such as these.

[@KajiRider1997]

*declines harder into paganism*

[@jennetal.984]

The term “Pagano-Christian” is becoming an alternative to “Judeo-Christian”

[@dynmicpara]

OBEY GOD John 3:16 and our country will not be a hell entrance hole. Go find a Deliverance minister and watch him cast out supernatural evil demons from a victim if you fantasize good and evil somehow don't exist.

[@macdhomhnaill7721]

Judeo-Christian is a brainwashing term that didn’t exist 100 years ago.

[@notloki3377]

Somehow I doubt cleatus and mortekai here would volunteer to live in 1450. America has done much ascending in the last few centuries. If that's pagan, I'll take it.

[@RosieJ7223]

Andrew Willard Jones wrote a couple books about the Middle Ages. We missed a lot of details that got glossed over when we learned our history from Wishbone and Braveheart.

[@notloki3377]

@@RosieJ7223 The dark ages weren't all bad, but I wouldn't go back if you paid me.

[@RosieJ7223]

@@notloki3377 You wouldn’t go back because you couldn’t go back. These guys aren’t suggesting we “go back” because a) that would be foolish and b) that would be impossible. This video is talking about a way forward. ✌️

[@notloki3377]

@@RosieJ7223 thank you for that string of platitudes and passive aggression. very helpful.

[@RosieJ7223]

@@notloki3377 Ahh, I can see how “we” would come off as passive aggressive, but I meant the eye roll for all of us- for our educational system and cultural laziness toward learning history. When I say “we” learned our history from movies and tv, I mean “we, collectively” not “you, specifically.” So Dr. Jones has a couple of books that look into historical records during particular centuries, and I think that would be of use to you (and many other people.)

[@eg4848]

uh Islam?

[@the_right_nut_4722]

At least one sleeper cell has been activated from this video

[@franzwohlgemuth2002]

Explain......

[@kenofken9458]

@@franzwohlgemuth2002 Don't encourage them.

[@VS-pd9go]

So do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner. Rather, join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. (2Tim. 1:8)

[@franzwohlgemuth2002]

All these Christians talking about paganism yet NEVER bring a Pagan on to actually discuss the topic... interesting.....

[@kenofken9458]

The first rule of right wing religious rants is never to let facts get in the way!

[@franzwohlgemuth2002]

@kenofken9458 oh, I know. But I still calling them out on it.

[@kenofken9458]

@@franzwohlgemuth2002 As well you should.

[@MaryC-co8fm]

You are making an interesting point. There are countless people who consider themselves pagan but who don't agree with the corruption and depravity and slave culture all around us. I actually don't think what is happening now is paganism. I think what is happening is Satanism and Luciferianism, which embraces unbridled pleasure , narcissism and perversity, and a sadistic joy in violence and aggression.

[@MGAF688]

What purpose would it serve to bring on a person of a belief system based on lies? Paganism is based on lies and deception. All pagans will lie and deceive at all times to serve their own selfish purposes. They have ZERO moral compass. It would be like having Satan on to discuss the topic of Satanism. Satan will lie and deceive through the whole conversation to the point that nothing of use will be gained from the conversation. It is like the conversation Jesus had with Satan. All Satan did was twist the truth. Truth is found in Jesus alone.

[@StJohnPaulXXIII]

How should this frame, or reframe, how we view the immigration crisis? It seems that the essential problem then is not drugs or MS-13 or erosion of American culture, etc. It's simply not having account of who is here. It isn't safety, because a pagan country with a secure border with another pagan country would still be tyrannical and deadly. Should Christians favor a liberal amnesty policy coupled with a restoration of rule of law? If the US and Mexico were both peak Christian nations this wouldn't be a problem. We're trying to control crime. We can more or less hand out citizenship and do that.

[@michaelhagerman7829]

🔥 AMEN 🔥💯

[@RedPrincexDESx]

Everything is true, even false or contradictory things.

[@anthonycostello6055]

See Michael S. Heiser's book "The Unseen Realm" for more on the reality of the pagan "gods."

[@fratercorleonis]

Nah, I don't think I will....

[@marycooper8385]

He is 💯 spot on

[@GraceInStow55]

The draw to paganism in humanity is because sin is in the whole person. The natural man is in a natrual state of rebellion against God. We joined Satan's rebellion in our representative Adam.

[@KajiRider1997]

One thing to paste Christianity's obsession with sin over the choices of non-christian masses but its a whole other thing to say one of your people. the incest making Adam to represent Satan's rebellion. Like he made a active choice over being O I dunno, a simpleton.

[@KRGruner]

This denotes a basic, fundamental misunderstanding of what makes Christianity work. Christianity did indeed stumble upon some (not all, though, and this is crucial as it explains the often deep disagreements within Christianity itself) very important features of the Natural Law (emphasis on NATURAL!) and as such, did transform the world for the better. But it is not "real" in any other sense, although I do not have a problem with people believing it is as long as they don't try to force that belief onto me. The Natural Law is what it is regardless of which God one prays to. There is no escaping this Truth.

[@bearistotle2820]

Why was this truth then uniquely expressed within Christian societies? Surely, if it is something people would gravitate toward and implement of their own volition, Christianity would've been unnecessary, wouldn't it?

[@KRGruner]

@@bearistotle2820 What would have happened without Christianity is pure speculation. In fact, Christianity did not reach its full potential until the Enlightenment (which granted, historically probably would not have happened without Christianity preceding it). The Christian world tolerated plenty of atrocities before that (including wars between Christians - you just can't make this stuff up!), and some Christians still do tolerate (or promote) evil nonsense to this day (I would include the current Pope in that category). The Natural Law has its consequences, and how/when humans recognize those laws that promote order rather than chaos in human affairs is highly contingent. Christianity can historically be given credit for promoting the dignity of human life without conditions, and that is of the upmost importance within the Natural Law. And there are the Ten Commandments, but these are not specifically Christian, are they? But Christians missed a lot (and I mean A LOT) of other key feature of the Natural Law. I can say for certain that, say, Nassim Taleb or Thomas Sowell, or Ludwig von Mises, understood far, far more of the Natural Law than the Pope does (certainly the current Pope!). And THAT is what is important. Christians have to get some credit, but please, stop the BS about that religion being all we need. Not even close.

[@dynmicpara]

Nature is fallen and disqualified as a standard to base anything on. OBEY GOD John 3:16 and our country will not be a hell entrance hole. Go find a Deliverance minister and watch him cast out supernatural evil demons from a victim if you fantasize good and evil somehow don't exist.

[@hooverKiller55]

We can only hope. Paganism is pretty cool

[@lux-veritatis]

Many pagan cultures across history practiced human sacrifice, does that count as cool? Or are you just interested in the costumes?

[@hooverKiller55]

@@lux-veritatis Didn't your god sacrifice his only son? There are dozens of heathen faiths growing across Europe and America and none of then sacrifice people. If there are any downsides to Neo-Paganism they probably can't be much worse then the kid diddling priests and preachers of christianity.

[@KajiRider1997]

@@lux-veritatis People can evolve past their old cultural hang-up. Human sacrifice isn't cool anymore. Just as it isn't cool to assume just because people become pagan again they are exactly the same as ancient pagans.

[@xyleblack2545]

​@lux-veritatis Ancient Israel practiced human sacrifice. But that is cool?

[@macdhomhnaill7721]

@@lux-veritatisAsatru (Norse) pagans never conducted human sacrifice and the idea was concocted by Christian priests centuries later in Germany.

[@okellojeremy2700]

Pagan Rome enforced religion. There was a State Religion. A union of religion and the State is a pagan thing. Whether it be Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism. . . etc , any union between religion and the State is completely Pagan. Consider Daniel in Babylon and the persecution of the Apostles in Rome.

[@dynmicpara]

OOOPS! The Israeli nation-state had the religion of following God, the Creator. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. No reason why we couldn't as a nation follow 7x of the 10x Commandments as our Baseline of Civilized Behavior--a theonomy--not a theocrisy.

[@kenofken9458]

Religion and state were seamlessly united in Christianity for nearly 14 centuries before the Enlightenment began to break them apart. Today's Christians, at least the ones who are stridently anti-Pagan, want to recreate that kind of theocracy/confessional state where government enforces one religion.

[@dynmicpara]

@@kenofken9458 You are absolutely right. Countries can be based on a false religion which proves they can also be based on a TRUE one; belief system etc. A theonomy would be a nation run by God's laws and procedures eg; no interest loans etc. no deficit spending etc. but only insist their Citizens behave moral laws and come to a John 3:16 faith on their own. All the millions of nihilist hedonist WOKETARDs in Amerika Babylon can have their BLUE city/state feces holes and we the RED moral stoicals states will leave and start over not repeating secular 1787 USC BS.

[@franzwohlgemuth2002]

"A union of religion and the State is a pagan thing." Depends on the culture. No every pagan cultures were that way. "Whether it be Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism. . . etc , any union between religion and the State is completely Pagan." Like when Constantine made Rome Christian?

[@dynmicpara]

@@franzwohlgemuth2002 OBEY GOD John 3:16 and our country will not be a hell entrance hole. Go find a Deliverance minister and watch him cast out supernatural evil demons from a victim if you fantasize good and evil somehow don't exist.

[@donvonfilms2937]

Hillsdale College is the best!

[@Thorhatesgroomers]

As a Nordic pagan I see this much differently. Christianity was just wokeness for the Roman Empire.

[@jsedge2473]

Yes. In fact, todays "wokeness" is just built upon Christianity.

[@lux-veritatis]

This is possibly the most ill informed comment I’ve seen in a long while.

[@7QHook]

the concept of rule of law, treatment of people without power, child sacrifice, slavery .... how could you possibly think they are basically the same?

[@mongolianqwerty123]

@@jsedge2473 This is true up to a point. I see it more as a materialist inversion of the Christian ethos, a deformation or misapplication of the logos. Jung's "Aion" examines Christianity in relation to the Piscean Age. The two fish in the zodiac image oppose each other, and Jung considers each fish representative of a millennia long processing of the Christ-event. The second fish is the materialist counter-reaction to the spiritualisation of the Middle Ages, and this leads down to our entry into the "new age" of Aquarius. His take anticipates the phenomenon of "wokeness" and I feel it is worth considering in the historic "long-view" of the cycle of ages reacting to revelation

[@MaryJones-rx3my]

i wasnt aware the deep state likes to feed wokesters to lions

[@HardL]

I listen to a boatload of podcasts. I’ve never heard a host lol at the guest like this guy. It was increasingly grating to the nth degree - like a pagan laughing in the face of the Christian, repeated inside jokes that only the pagan got. Could be an effect of the Hillsdalebro reunion?

[@NeedSomeNuance]

Y’all are amazingly ignorant of history, it doesn’t surprise me y’all went to hillsdale

[@user-zm7wp2uz7z]

To the host: the spate of your apparently habitual nervous laughter is obnoxiously annoying. Your need to show just how smart you are, which no one doubts, makes a serious and interesting discussion extremely difficult to watch.

[@williambranch4283]

In paganism, there is a patron deity for every sin ;-(

[@dynmicpara]

Satan's devils animate pagan statues to con sheeple they are real.

[@franzwohlgemuth2002]

No. There isn't.

[@williambranch4283]

@@franzwohlgemuth2002 Mars and Venus are married ;-)

[@franzwohlgemuth2002]

@williambranch4283 having a personal patron deity is a very modern neopagan notion derived from the Catholic patron Saint concept. Historically, having an individual patron God was not a thing.

[@dynmicpara]

@@franzwohlgemuth2002 OBEY GOD John 3:16 and our country will not be a hell entrance hole. Go find a Deliverance minister and watch him cast out supernatural evil demons from a victim if you fantasize good and evil somehow don't exist.

[@user-ob1vn3hm3k]

America's decline into christianity

[@dynmicpara]

OBEY GOD John 3:16 and our country will not be a hell entrance hole. Go find a Deliverance minister and watch him cast out supernatural evil demons from a victim if you fantasize good and evil somehow don't exist.

[@wireless849]

What a load of rubbish. Ahistorical theological twaddle. Even if we were to accept his thesis, give me a reason to care outside of a faith in Christianity.

[@satyalouis-guepin7692]

The ugliness of the world brought by the pagans. An unsafe world ruled by brute force and frequent blood sacrifices to appease the Beast. That's perpetual chaos for your children if you have any... That's hell.

[@RosieJ7223]

A reason? Such as… Christian philosophy is the reason your pretty face isn’t being forced to serve as a Roman temple prostitute? Or maybe it’s the reason your child doesn’t have to be sacrificed to a Taino god? I dunno. Some Christians can be whackadoodle… that’s for sure. But the idea that each person has equal dignity and worth sure didn’t come from the Aztecs 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@wireless849]

@@satyalouis-guepin7692the last 2000 years have hardly been a walk in the park for 99% of the population. Secularism, science and technology are the reason for your current standard of living. Not Christianity which has mostly just been used as an excuse to perpetuate existing power structures and inhibit our understanding of the world.

[@wireless849]

@@RosieJ7223No. This is the idea of a “judeo-Christian” culture which is the cause of all the good things in the world. It is a myth. If you look at what people actually believed, how they acted, what they accepted to be true this is as diverse as one would expect it to be across time and geography. Sure, there are consistent references to the bible and Christian artefacts. But they are just symbols. What they mean in the world was (and still is) wildly different across time and place. Even what Christianity officially stood for, its institutional teachings, changed hugely over time in order to keep up with the evolving moral values of its believers.

[@RosieJ7223]

@@wireless849 Yes, there is and was a ton of diversity of thought and practice. This is not contested. Nor does such diversity prove your point, I think it proves mine: pagan converts be swimming in paganist mindset and that whole “fight the world, the flesh, and the devil” part of the Bible might have some merit. What is very clear is that 1) many pagan cultures, the number growing after almost each archeological dig, spanning across the world and across millennia, sacrificed (unwilling) victims to pagan gods. 2) The Torah gave specific instructions NOT to sacrifice humans or to have temple prostitutes. It also spoke to how humans were “made in the image and likeness of God,” and therefore, equal in dignity in the sight of God. Then the New Testament gave further clarity on the value of each human. This. Is. Shocking. And we have no other records or sources that point to anything close to this kind of theology. There were peoples who believed all earth matter was equal (tree, sky, persons etc.) That sounds close… until they send you off in the ocean at age 50 when you’re no longer useful. Or they only name you after you’ve accomplished something. At least they had a ritual around it, that’s nice. But it’s still a death sentence for lack of utility. The idea that a human should live because of the dignity bestowed by their Creator, even when that human is a true burden to others, is Christian. Even atheists can see this. This doesn’t mean that Christians immediately started to act perfectly (see the parts of the Bible regarding sin,) but over centuries the pagan mentality of “might makes right” gave way to an ideal of self-sacrificial (willing) love. Then, humans who inherited this kind of world told themselves that THEY actually came up with this all on their own, because humans just magically get better over time or something. So now there’s a bunch of folks who think we don’t need Judie-Christian philosophy or morality to live well together. But Maury’s lie detector test determined that was a lie 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@AlsanPine]

dear Mr. Davidson, before you write a book, you should spend more time researching things. the fundamental premise of your argument here is provably wrong. you spend too much time looking at the Romans and too little time looking at where the first human rights charter was put into action. the pagan the bible talks about in the early days is Mithraism. it is an apocryphal bastardization of the teachings of Zarathustra who was the origin of the Abrahamic religions and predates Christianity more than two millennia. those three wise guys you Christians talk about ever Christmas? they were Zoroastrian priests. the principles of this religion established the first recorded civilization that not only forbade slavery, it established equality of sexes, it had female generals, politicians, and every other profession of the time. there are clay tablets accounting for higher pay for women workers who had been widowed. they were the authors of the first human rights charter and actually implemented it. over 500 years BEFORE Christ. you were allowed to have your own language, religion, culture without any problem. they achieved what we, here in USA have so far only talked about. your entire argument is based on euro-centric blindfold you have. incidentally, virtually all of the symbolism of Christianity is actually from Mithraism. Christianity did not win against pagan religion, it merged with it. the cross, trinity, virgin birth, resurrection, most of Christian holidays, etc. are ALL from Mithraism. the heaven and hell thing is from Zoroastrianism. Christianity is a renewal and updating of the teachings of God from Judaism. this updating and renewal of the teachings of God throughout history has been necessary because as time passes, the supposed followers of these teachings bastardize the true teachings and insert their own prejudices. this is why throughout history; updates have come through new manifestations of God in less than a millennium.

[@pronghornhunter]

Wow. He should do more research? Are you just regurgitating the atheist film Zeitgeist? There were two different historic forms of “Mithraism.” The one you are talking about that bears some superficial resemblance to Christianity actually came after Christianity. Trent Horn has a great video debunking the entire concept and movie. Your “history” is wishful thinking.

[@AlsanPine]

@@pronghornhunter have no idea what this film is you are talking about. my statement is accurate. as i am very much an authority on the topic, you will forgive my not being convinced by your comment 🙂

[@EspadaKing777]

@@pronghornhunter I'll be honest, between his misattribution of an Assassin's Creed quote and the fact that he seems to forget that most Pagan empires were not, in fact, moral relativists in even the slightest degree, I'm with AlsInd here. Davidson is passing of his own political axe-grinding as scholarship.

[@donvonfilms2937]

Christianity beat the pagans once, we can do it again.

[@Mind-Over-Magick-ft8yh]

Next time there is a battle Pagans will WIN!!

[@saileshray9840]

If jesus was god why was he not able save himself

[@MGAF688]

He rose from the dead. When you can do that, then we'll worship you.

[@mangannon1647]

Please read the gospel of John in the New Testament. Jesus was sent to die, to defeat death which was brought upon humanity when Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 3. Jesus was sent to die for our sin. He is our sacrifice, our Lamb that takes away our sin. Jesus defeated death so we can be born again to dwell with God as Adam did in the garden of Eden. God really does love us and wants to share His creation with you and me, with all who want to believe in His Son Christ Jesus.

[@Mind-Over-Magick-ft8yh]

Because he never existed.

[@saileshray9840]

I choose peganisim over Christianity anyday

[@mangannon1647]

God loves you. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[@KajiRider1997]

@@mangannon1647 God is a narcessist. I'd rather go to Hel. The goddess not the christian place. that latter one is fiction.

[@Mind-Over-Magick-ft8yh]

Same.