American Unitarianism (Intro to Trinitarian Theology)

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This part of our Intro to Trinitarian Theology series discusses the formation and beliefs of Unitarianism in the United States. It is the second part of two on Unitarianism.

[@joabthejavelin5119]

So, Bootstrap Bill was a unitarian. This puts Captain Barbosa in a new light for me.

[@comeintotheforest]

This comment makes me excited for the video

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased. But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help. This is a legit Roman Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit. This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.". .

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. -Acts 3:19

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

@@comeintotheforest🥧

[@Outrider74]

Interesting to note how vital proper Christological doctrine is to the overall integrity of orthodox theology. When you lose the biblical Christ, you lose Christianity itself.

[@saimbhat6243]

Christology is what happens when you mix roman and greek religions with a YHWH worshiping theology. LOL By the way, did jesus ever claim that god is a trilogy!? And when did jesus or paul or thomas or peter et al say that they are not jews !?LOL "Begotton son of god", what can be more greco-roman and more anti-torah than that.

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased. But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help. This is a legit Roman Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit. This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.". .

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. -Acts 3:19

[@foxbat252]

As a unitarian (not UU), I was impressed by Dr Cooper's accurate and charitable presentation of unitarian history. I'd love to hear a conversation between Dr Cooper and Dr Dale Tuggy.

[@garfieldbartor2269]

This mini-series on unitarianism has been very insightful. Thanks for prodcuing such high-quality content

[@michaelg4919]

If anyone was wondering: The channel Dr. Cooper was referring to is called "The Weidner Institute". May our Lord and God, Jesus the Christ, bless you!

[@maypalmer]

This edition was awesome! I learned so much about the history of Unitarianism here in the United States. Okay, Dr. Cooper...I LOVE your work!! Would you consider doing a video on one of the most controversial religious figures, Madame Helena Blavatsky, the founder of Theosophy? She was truly a wild one! That would be amazing!!! Thanks for considering it!! ❤❤❤

[@jasonmalstrom1043]

What happened in the town outside of Boston was also interesting. In many Massachusetts towns, you can still tell which way the town church sided with the Congregational / Unitarian split, by which church is the most prominent in the center of town. The disestablishment of churches moved the power of governing them from the parish attending the church, to the official members of the church, who might hold different views than the parish. Before disestablishment you could see the majority of the members walk away and lose their building and property. After disestablishment, you often ended up with churches that no longer reflected the parishes who had been attending them. By 1836, a survey claimed that 1,282 Unitarians had caused 3,900 trinitarians to leave their church.

[@sbwende]

@DrJordanBCooper thank you for an excellent series, if you could bring it up to the present day with groups such as LDS, JW and SDA I would really appreciate it, given that it is these groups I generally interact with.

[@maypalmer]

Wow!! Dr. Cooper, you are amazing!! I LOVE your videos!!

[@SettledChristian]

I would enjoy a video on your thoughts on Arminianism. You have touched on it a few times in videos, but haven’t done a full video on the subject yet, so would like to see where you think the theology goes wrong.

[@zekdom]

I can see where Unitarians who reject the pre-existence of Christ are coming from, based on 1 Peter 1:20. But in context, it seems that the crucifixion was foreknown - maybe even Jesus in the incarnation and crucifixion was foreknown (1 Peter 1:18-20). This corresponds with what we see elsewhere: • the crucifixion was predestined by God (Acts 4:28) • the resurrection was foreknown by David (Acts 2:30-31) And ultimately, I don’t see how we can explain John 8:58 outside of a pre-existence framework. I’ve seen attempts at explaining John 17:5 without pre-existence, but not with John 8:58. Tying that together with 1 Corinthian 10:4-9, Jude 1:4, and the creation texts (especially 1 Corinthians 8:6), it just seems clear that pre-existence is taught by the New Testament. In my estimation, the real debate is not over pre-existence. It boils down to the creation texts, whether the pre-existent Son is created or distinct from all creation.

[@paulblase3955]

God is outside of time as we know it. He doesn't just know that something will happen, He sees it happening.

[@martespennanti3229]

The whole of New England groaned, and found itself Unitarian.

[@joshc2501]

If you want to engage with a contemporary Unitarian I'd recommend you do it with Sam Tideman/Transfigured. He's well read and civil in his conversations/videos. Ask Paul VanderKlay, he's friends with Sam and would agree he's worth dialoguing with. I personally am uneasy with the idea of platforming unitarian theology (especially with your subscriber gap) but if you were to pick any representitive go with him.

[@bradleymarshall5489]

Thoughts on Dale Tuggy?

[@litigioussociety4249]

Do you plan to cover differences or heresies regarding salvation and eschatology? For example, I'm curious about the history of annihilation and universalism. Both seemed to have been discussed in the early church, but had a resurgence in the modern era. Soul sleep is another one that I don't know the history about.

[@RandomTheology]

yes, I think it would be great if you engage with Dale Tuggys work. Also, I would love to see a video on Mormons View of God

[@NathanielStallings-nf6qi]

“Numbers aren’t real, but they aren’t subjective”

[@marilynmelzian7370]

Thank you for this. I also grew up in New England, and this video explains a lot of the spiritual laxity of the area. I personally grew up in a Swedish evangelical church that had broken off from the Lutheran church in Sweden (sorry 😊). The only real Christian commitment I saw outside of that was among Catholics, who tended to be recent immigrants. In my high school there were few of us who were committed to Christ or even attended church.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

You were in a Covenant church in New England? As a child I was in a Swedish Covenant church in Granby, CT and then went to youth group at a Covenant church in Springfield, MA through high school.

[@marilynmelzian7370]

@@DrJordanBCooper I grew up in the Evangelical Covenant Church in Riverside, RI. My parents had grown up in churches in Thomaston, CT and Cambridge, MA. I think I knew somebody from Granby when I was in high school. Did you ever go to camp Squanto or Pilgrim Pines? I know I am a lot older than you, but it is always possible you met some of my relatives.

[@irreview]

Love the Trinity!

[@LeeRoyJenkz]

I have found their claims very convincing so if you could engage with them I would appreciate that because I am now lost. I need to be brought back.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Can you point me to a particular place that has these arguments that you find compelling?

[@LeeRoyJenkz]

Well for one their arguments just make sense to me. Why can't god be only the father and Jesus as his human messiah whom performed miracles through the Holy Spirit? They say the original christians were unitarians and the word Trinity wasn't even mentioned until the fourth century. Also that there is no where in the Bible that actually teaches the Trinity and even the best experts who believe the trinity would agree with that. I would have to look things over again to bring up more points but really good people to look into would be Sam Tideman YT channel Transfigured, Pastor Sean Finnegan YT channel Restitutio, and or Dale Tuggy. Basically they have convincing points that the apostles and first 300 years of christians were actually Unitarian. Thank you for responding. I hope this helps. Absolutely love your channel. I was raised catholic but have fell away from the church and love the protestant ways. Still looking for what direction to go in and that is how I accidentally stumbled upon Unitarians lol. Bought your book Liturgical Worship in the Church. Very good read. God bless.@@DrJordanBCooper

[@RyanOlander]

I think it would be interesting to examine how other faiths have interacted with the Christian doctine of God historically. Islam, for example, is peculiar because the (historically) have allowed/ accepted the virgin birth of Christ, but reject him as anything more than a prophet. I think there's a lot of interesting layers that could be examined there.

[@anyanyanyanyanyany3551]

I'm somewhat surprised you didn't touch on Oneness Pentecostals.

[@samueljennings4809]

@anyanyanyanyanyany3551 Oneness Pentecostals hold to something completely different than what Unitarians do. OP affirm the deity of Jesus while Unitarians deny it.

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. -Acts 3:19

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased. But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help. This is a legit Roman Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit. This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.". :)

[@evann8570]

I'd typically watch this but it's 12 at night. Dr please go to bed.

[@toilet_cleaner_man]

he's too busy yo-yoing to be tired

[@WonRyatt_9000]

"The Lord's work must be done." -Joshua Graham

[@willx9352]

By 1774, the British government was not actively seeking to persecute minority religious views.

[@jasonmalstrom1043]

In general, yet, but there were still penalties for being Catholic or Nontrinitarian, such as being excluded from civil service, or paying a double property tax. Hence why the Unitarian Tolerance act of 1813 was needed.

[@willx9352]

@@jasonmalstrom1043 There continued to be civil disabilities but a blind eye was turned to “illegal” preaching and religious practice: for example, Catholics were able to celebrate mass, even though strictly it was still illegal. Indeed some quite large Catholic Churches were built in England in the eighteenth century - although you would not know that these were Catholic Churches from the exterior. In other words, there was de facto tolerance as long as people were discrete. There was probably more legal persecution in the American colonies than was actually occurring in England at the same time.

[@jasonmalstrom1043]

@@willx9352 true, a lot of Americans don't realize they were trailing on religious freedom. Massachusetts lost self government in part due to England wanting them to stop killing Quakers. The reason America managed such a leap forward was both from the Baptists being persecuted and the liberals wanted freedom to explore. But New England was still unfriendly towards Catholics, and in 1834 rioters burnt down a convent.

[@vngelicath1580]

"Unitarians.." ~ Homer Simpson

[@arthurbrugge2457]

The unitarians ended up much like the methodists.

[@davecorns7630]

first

[@jorgelopez-pr6dr]

"Unitarian Christianism" is a sort of oxymoron.🤔

[@JamalBaruch]

Unitarianism is as American as Apple pie. Thomas Jefferson was a Unitarian. He was so compelled in his views that he created his own personal Unitarian bible. The Jefferson Bible.