"Americans Losing Faith" - Is the Value of College Worth the Cost?

[@cryHavocandletslipthedog-dp5ke]

You guys are becoming the only reason to stay on KZbin for longer than 5-10 minutes.

[@RedroomStudios]

wow, you must have a very small range of references then. there loads of other great channels doing this style of content.

[@cryHavocandletslipthedog-dp5ke]

@@RedroomStudios I use other platforms. (So do most creators now)

[@swiftusmaximus5651]

The only Degree worth a darn anymore are Masters and Doctorates in Gender Studies

[@RedroomStudios]

@@cryHavocandletslipthedog-dp5ke what does that have to do with it? you are suggesting these guys are the only worthwhile content on youtube. it simply isnt true.

[@nduduzomkhize3300]

Facts

[@YeshuBenPandera]

most colleges have turned into diploma mills from all the easy access to student loans and thus the cost of a degree has been inflated grossly while the quality has plummeted

[@catherinebourdon8258]

Our econ prof at a community college actually explained to us how this was made possible through subsidies. Colleges grossly exploited this. Such an unintended consequence can be changed. Stop funding the administrative bloat, and start enforcing audits. I saw ways money and financial aid was being used that was super shady.

[@adams6438]

To add to that.. as Ron Desantis has pointed out… since forever now youre required to have X amount of credits for a degree.. and youre taking so much filler junk classes to get those credits that has nothing at all to do with your career path, serves no purpose other than taking money out of your pocket to get the degree.. youre buying a degree .. we have got to cut out all these filler junk shit from requirements so that when students want to get a degree for example in culinary, theyre not also required to take a class on mushroom history.. there’s no reason at all for them to know what mushrooms were like before christ.. they just want to cook the fucking thing and serve it

[@AZ-697]

Absolutely not. Most universities and colleges need to lose all federal funding and shut down for their gross negligence and breech of ethics.

[@Erica-cf1xb]

Everyone at the top know what they are doing, which is so wrong, but they don't care and have no remorse about doing it. They have no problem producing mini versions of them...which ain't shit. And there are a bunch of ain't shit people who are fake friends that are sitting together talking about bs and spending crazy money on things that depreciate and are Big liabilities.

[@ShadowGhost-n8d]

Hmmmmm. Interesting

[@jondear772]

I once saw the college transcript from my wife's grandfather. BS in Accounting. ALL of the courses (about 25 of them) required for that BS had to do with Accounting, his major. These days, colleges demand courses that have no bearing on your career choice. Colleges no longer want to build learned employees in their field of endeavor. Colleges just want to make money.

[@JM-gj7de]

Indeed, that's how universities make their money. If kids only took the courses they actually needed for their careers...they'd be finished in 18 months. It's all a scam.

[@imhopelesslyaddictedtofent4266]

Can confirm, i’m a 3rd year finance major and i’ve learned nothing about finance. Its all woke liberal arts classes. If you ask why you have to take them they say “you have to be well rounded”.

[@roxiebeagle]

It all a push for a “well rounded” education. It’s a scam! I was stuck taking Greek Mythology- and if it was part of the forced electives. I guarantee you the Professor would not have had a job doing anything else if people were not in forced electives.

[@DeltonisRoss]

not true . my advisor keep tell me im of course in my major.

[@jacobschiller4486]

At the very least, those classes pad my GPA. I'm a math major. It isn't easy...

[@beckymocniak]

I’m highly educated (masters degree in engineering). I tell my 10yr old son all the time that he should only go to college if he wants to work in a highly skilled career. I also tell him he can learn a lot by himself through the power of the internet since there is so much information at our fingertips….and ALWAYS outwork the ppl around you. College is NOT what it use to be.

[@AZRN928]

Yes!!!!

[@jackcarraway4707]

"Outworking" the people around you only gets you more work.

[@ProfessorFatMan]

Not necessarily. You have to learn to "outwork" people. Don't take it so literal@@jackcarraway4707

[@masque9446]

​@@jackcarraway4707 I would only add to your comment...it gets you more work...for NO additional pay. Especially if you work in a corporation. If you are a research scientist, it leads to better results and more acclaim, but that is an incredibly small niche in the overall job market.

[@XxGyromancerXx]

@@jackcarraway4707 More work, no raise, and constantly passed over for a promotion.

[@umoramayori]

Childhood used to end at 13 years old, now its 40.

[@XavierV37]

Go to community college kids if you must go to college. Parents, Teachers, and Universities have stigmatized going to a community college but it’s the smartest Financial decision if you’re dead set on college.

[@TAEMAN197]

Exactly

[@ShadowGhost-n8d]

Interesting. Hmmmmm

[@ramzyaissaq1698]

I'm in that and even that is a. Scam lmaoo😂

[@aaronely759]

What happened to apprenticeships? Thats how we learned for most of recorded history....

[@erockdlmon8645]

Can only get apprenticeships if ur already going to college these days

[@r-uu2qi]

They don’t exist in this country anymore. Most colleges don’t care about their students

[@generalsirc2615]

Exactly! I am studying to be an engineer and I would gladly shadow a real engineer for a few months! I think I would learn more from that shadowing than I would from any professor

[@goosey235]

@@generalsirc2615 I'm an engineer and this statement is 100% true - in fact I had a colleague who's boss once told him that in reality all it takes to be a good engineer is a reasonable smart person with about 3 months of on the job training!

[@174mars]

They don’t want to work for free

[@swushey]

Education, if done right, is its own reward. Unfortunately, college has become prohibitively expensive for many. If something piques your intellectual curiosity, and the best way to scratch that itch is college, go for it.

[@WineHouse33]

The rich privileged kids that have a paid ride from their parents, will have an advantage over all the people that decide to not attend college...

[@UWSaleen557]

@@WineHouse33 They do have scholarships...

[@degenshaw6386]

Blame it on Reagan

[@brando8086]

Just pick up a trade and you dont need to pay for higher education

[@ralph3428]

You pay to get brainwashed into a radical left loony…..all degrees no common sense

[@fft57d]

When I was in high school in the late 70s, it was drilled into me by family members and well-meaning adults to get a college degree. They would tell me the importance of getting a college degree, and it did not matter what the degree was in. Just get a degree! Even today, I can still hear in my mind their impassioned plea. JUST GET ANY DEGREE!

[@mikiandfriends1820]

After working 20yr, just get any degree is good idea. But not if you dedicate your whole life to it. Much more important to live your life and work

[@networth00]

Now that same advice is very outdated.

[@herkload]

@psychoticschmitz7867What’s your degree on? I just left active duty and decided to attend CC

[@herkload]

@psychoticschmitz7867 Same here. I’m getting an associates in accounting then transferring to a 4 year

[@r-uu2qi]

Defund colleges, reduce tuition, admit fewer students and make online programs cheap. Problem solved. Why is nobody talking about it??

[@peterjermey7235]

Sorry for the cynical answer but nobody is talking about it because politicians are only interested in boomers and boomers think they don't need inexpensive college.

[@EvilMAiq]

Online is not the answer imo, kids (and I do count college students as children) need the socialization of in-person interaction. I think the voucher system proposed by Milton Friedman back in the 80s has merit.

[@r-uu2qi]

@@EvilMAiq what if you’re a single mom with kids? What if you live in a reservation & have no access to certain programs? I agree that in-person education is superior, but online schooling accommodates a lot of demographics. The problem is that online tuition costs the same as in-person one. It makes zero sense to me.

[@peterjermey7235]

@@SteveTudesco OF etc certainly pays more than doing traditional work if you have the right look. It's a huge indictment on all of the 2024 candidates that none of them are trying to increase pay for workers

[@peterjermey7235]

@@EvilMAiq why do you count college students as children? What age do you consider adult?

[@Veggamattic]

If you want to be an employee all your life, college might help but for those of us that can...starting a business is a far better answer.

[@r-uu2qi]

Most business startups fail. What do you suggest? Taking out a loan?

[@GilmerJohn]

Well, you have to pick up specialized knowledge. The best advice for someone wanting to get into a business would be to drop out of K-12 and take community college courses to learn particular business and technical skills as you feel you need.

[@artis-x9c]

Only if the government quits regulating the hell out of businesses.

[@sullathehutt7720]

You can't have a functional society with too many chiefs and not enough indians.

[@MsCwebb]

@@r-uu2qi You are obviously not one of the people he was talking about if you can't figure it out for yourself.

[@nancyankrom3803]

Some degrees are worth going for. Many careers have unnecessary class requirements for that job. Over in England they don’t have those as part of the curriculum and they end up graduating sooner. Always thought that was a much better option than how we do it over here.

[@catherinebourdon8258]

We used to tell our kids we refuse to pay $3000 (plus interest) for a semester of badminton class! That's part of the reason why we insisted with our kids that if they made the decision to go to college, transfer from a community college with an Associates Degree. First find out if college is even for you. Get those gen eds out of the way for FAR LESS in money. Often without debt. Then make a better informed decision. Hopefully the student can academically prove they are worth more financial aid, being able to prove they have the stuff to succeed. They'll be more mature by then, and hopefully less likely to succumb to disastrous distractions that become debt chains for the next 20yrs.

[@bgandjsco1]

In England you go to college Directly for a Law degree. No college then Law school like here. In Germany when you want to be an engineer, all you take is engineering classes.

[@tonymontez2358]

Make sure you entrepreneurs who agree that college isn’t worth it actually hire those kids outta high school. Don’t say you’re against college then when someone without a degree comes your reluctant to hire them looking for a degree on their resume

[@avertthymortaleyes3460]

Boomers worship college degrees.

[@christopherprince3615]

Damn right

[@Technie87]

THIS xD

[@chernobylshery885]

yup. Experience and applicable knowledge should count more...in a theoretical ideal world.

[@tonymontez2358]

@@chernobylshery885 sometimes you have to just take a chance on people, what experience is a 18 year old going to have your going to have to teach them the ropes of how to do things

[@GilmerJohn]

Well, I'm old and I paid attention in my younger years. Up to c. 1960, it was possible for a working class person to literally work his way through a four year "STEM" college degree. Other differences: the University I went to in the 60s had Saturday classes until 1961. In 1964 the Thanksgiving break was just ONE day. Going fast forward c. 2015, the number of actual class hours had been cut back. The "breaks" have been extended with "intersession" classes scheduled. This means students are paying more and getting less.

[@Ziko577]

This is very true. When I was in college we only had a few holidays like Thanksgiving & Christmas for the Fall semester and in the Spring it's just Spring Break. There's a summer session but it's worthless really.

[@rocketsurgeon1746]

As a guy with a couple degrees, I have told all the young people I mentor to avoid the military and college. Trade schools, pay cash for everything except a house and hustle.

[@ao24cleve]

One of the best things about this podcast is the group of dudes giving their thoughts. Love the banter.

[@Panda_J1]

Pats kids are like " Dad i don't want to go to college because we're already rich and when you die that money comes to me"

[@shrapnel77]

I did not start college until I was 23. I worked as a mechanic, ware housing, mental health counselor and grocery store stocking shelves. I put myself through college and paid off all my debts soon after I graduated. I have been a science teacher for the last 27 years and will retire in a few years. I never push college on my students and I have always respected the blue collar ideology. I call myself a white collar worker with a blue collar mentality. Many young kids want to have the "fun" college experience while taking an easy degree. Unfortunately, that easy degree leaves you in debt without the benefit of a lifelong job and pension.

[@NK-iw6rq]

Thank you PBD and team valuetaintment for having the conversations and discussions we need to hear.

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

I am 42 years old. I spent $30,000 in CUNY getting my bachelors in Science. I got a scholarship for my first Masters in Science in Adelphi University. I spent $18,000 out of pocket to get my 2nd Masters in CUNY Queens College. I paid off my student loans 10 years early. I make over $200,000 a year, own two houses and live in NYC. I definitely think degrees are necessary whether you think they are worth the cost. The question is whether or not you’ll spend a ton of money getting degrees that can’t pay themselves back. Living in high-rent dormitories eating high-cost buffet food.

[@markgarcia8253]

Real question, what field you went into and why? Secondly, what is so special that it demands that much education when only the hyper rich would financially recover from that model?

[@kstrazz3552]

which CUNY? doesnt matter at all I was just curious.

[@ismailiqbal2029]

@@markgarcia8253you’ve missed another important point. The degree market is very oversaturated these days compared to 20/30/40 years ago. Regardless of the cost the inherent value has gone down due to over saturation I must stress that I’m from the U.K. and that’s the reality here. I’m not 100% sure if the same is in America I’m just adding a point that I think is important.

[@wurlabyscott]

People need something to believe, look at society today as proof.

[@cryHavocandletslipthedog-dp5ke]

When it is free, expect it to lose value.

[@CMA418]

I’m not sure this is anything new. We are a dumb species. And highly susceptible to self-deception.

[@jasonfromguitarcenter]

Believe In What? Delusions

[@gilcstf]

#1 - Not only more expensive but they make you do the entire first year spending time and money on classes that are not even related to your major. #2 - A 18 to 20 year old are not ready to make such an expense and life long decision. They should take a about 5 year break after high-school to figure things out before being pressured into making that decision.

[@ChosenPlaysYT]

Tom represents exactly what is wrong. He knows it’s terrible, then sends his daughters… this is why we lose.

[@ellenerwin6222]

I told my twins that college is a financial investment and that the ROI needs to be there. Do your homework on what careers are in demand and what they pay. They both graduated two years ago and are working in the field they went to school for. My daughter is a Chemical engineer and my son an Airline Pilot. In our case it was a good investment. I also told them we wouldn’t pay for anything that ended in the word studies. They could go get a library card for that.

[@paulheydarian1281]

People aren't stupid. Higher Education in the U.S. is mainly about money & getting credentials. Getting Self-Educated is another matter.

[@carloszavala1145]

College is literally a business, the only reason they call you a bum if you don't go is because that's how they sell you college. Then all that student debt in the long run, someone is making that money and it's NOT YOU!!

[@davideinstein7887]

Yep. When I was in college, 90% of kids cheated and they just party on weekend lol. Hollywood definitely sold dream to these kids.

[@Hard_7_Iron]

There are MANY tech companies who only look at 2 year degrees now. One 4 year BS Engineer can lead 15 or 20 AA (Associate in Applied Sciences) Designers and knock out really solid designs. And AA degrees are HANDS ON and cost about 25-35% of 1 year of a Major University. Don’t buy into the hype. Designers do the same work. And can pay off college a lot faster and painless. And I love the idea of internships too! It’s so important for the kid as well as the company. Good discussions guys…I really liked it.

[@badmon15]

Spot on.

[@GilmerJohn]

Well, the "smart" student in this case would get a 4 years STEM from a university and start out at 6 figures.

[@Pancito49]

My grandson is 20, no college I tried to get him to go to a trade school that is 2 months of learning, learning to be a bicycle mechanic he could do 1 or 2 years apprentice and after be making $30 to $45 an hour, after a few years open his own shop. I go to my highschool reunion (55) the superintendent talking about trade schools for the students, all well and good, but I ask "super" across the street we had an old school that's where we had shop classes, metals, wood (carpentry), car shop rebuilt engine, general mechanic and sheet metal and body work, they tore down the school and never rebuilt theses shops into the new highschool, why . School name Bath, Bath MI. Schools are now all WOKE, social activism. Try to make a living with that.

[@mewells]

Both my kids have opted out (for now) of the college experience. They have taken on other interests and more skill building activities. They are happier and wanted to detox from the educational indoctrination.

[@ismailiqbal2029]

Many reasons I think people are losing hope in college education but my 2 main points personally are 1. Education can be obtained in many more ways these days compared to the past. 2. More people have access to college education as loans are easier to obtain. Thus making the inherent value of the degree go down by a bit.

[@bocajrs7628]

You are right. Also, many degrees don't require much effort or hard work to obtain. As a result degrees don't mean as much because almost anyone get a degree.

[@thenaftewards4064]

What about the normalization of debt?

[@bullmoosevelt4495]

The financial side should also be considered a huge problem. Despite the fact that college has become more streamlined for the average American, it’s only gotten MORE expensive for LESS quality while the American people have gradually become poorer and poorer.

[@thenaftewards4064]

@@bullmoosevelt4495 Americans are graduating and the salary offerings are new poverty levels.

[@ismailiqbal2029]

@@thenaftewards4064 this too. The debt culture is too normalised. It’s ok to earn 60K and drive a car worth 70K. But then again that’s just how the economy works.

[@esquire9445]

20 years ago I graduated with a Business degree and I paid my way through as I went. University of Washington $1600 per quarter plus $300 for books…. I was later at the UPS store talking to the shipping clerk who didn’t work through school and racked up 8 years of debt for an art history doctorate degree and had a smug attitude about her. She was upset with her life because she was stuck making $12 an hour and she put her palms up and said, “I assumed people would just hire me with more education.” I walked out of there shocked that she had $36,000 in debt and was working for that wage. People don’t think things through. Nowadays it’s common to have $80k in debt. I was shocked then and even more shocked now.

[@GilmerJohn]

Actually, governments often hire folks with "useless" PhDs. Once in they end up doing quite well. If you have a useless PhD eep applying for government jobs; the federal government is best but state government also work. In the mean time, work at small colleges.

[@rpdbu8250]

I graduated 15 years ago. Tuition per semester was $1600. I remember the class after me, Tuition was going to be $1800 and that was a spike. Minimum wage was still $8 My coworker here graduated from the same University. She told me that her student debt is $70,000 …. My jaw dropped. I went onto the University website and wow. Tuition per semester was $4600. All the programs were exactly the same. What went wrong?

[@esquire9445]

@@rpdbu8250 Obama nationalized student debt. Before banks would evaluate the probability of being paid back. Now that the US government holds these loans there is no evaluation. College administrators gave themselves huge raises and the colleges are spending money on facilities such as bowling Ally’s to attract new students to the campus. The people gaining from this are enslaving the next generation. More access to money was not the answer to anything in an era where actual education and real college lectures are free on KZbin. It’s $70k for a piece of paper saying your educated. That’s not what a smart society would do, and it’s not what smart people are doing. Plumbers in major cities are making $250k as an employee… and these idiots are going to college to make $40k with $70k in debt. A modern degree is a sign of a stupid person.

[@girlwriteswhat]

It's not just the rising cost. I told my kids to get jobs. If, at some point, they wanted to go to technical or trade school or take an engineering degree, they could live here, but THEY had to come up with the tuition. If they went for something stupid, like sociology, they could live under a bridge. When we were first together, my husband tried to convince me to get a degree in anthropology or social psychology. I'd be taken more seriously if I had some letters after my name. I was like, "nope. That shit's infested with feminists and marxists." "But you could still--" "Waste a ton of money and energy resisting being brainwashed by a bunch of blue-haired boobies with septum piercings and recently scraped wombs? Because then they'll take me seriously? Yeah. No thanks." "Well, when you put it that way..." Post-sec has been a liability for a while. Even when it's cheap, you're wasting your time. My kids went straight from high school into jobs, and they're all building savings and investments. My oldest, instead of being $40k in debt at 25 had $40k in the bank. You just have to not be an idiot.

[@iamkesha.]

I used to be a huge supporter of college and the military. I entered the military with an Associate and retired with an MBA. During my military days, I pushed education and even accommodated the schedule for them to attend. Now, I lost trust in both. I also falls within the high percentage of parents who kid went to college with book and common sense but came out indoctrinated.

[@juice_man4439]

I’m glad gap years got brought up. I took one and it was easily one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, despite the fact that I was discouraged from doing it by many people, even by teachers and counselors in high school. My buddies went straight to college and every single one of them had dropped out after 2 years. I didn’t get stuck with debt that some of them did, and they didn’t even get anything out of it. Taking a gap year and working full time will teach most kids that they better love what they do instead of just going to school and not knowing what you want to do. College is too expensive unless you’re going STEM anyway, all you get is a pretty useless piece of paper and a lot of indoctrination. I know plenty of people my age who got a degree and make less than me and they work somewhere like Starbucks or target even though they have a 4 year degree

[@daves2822]

People haven't lost faith in higher learning, they have lost faith in the predatory lending and subsequent indentured servitude contracts that go hand in hand with a traditional 4 or 8 year college education

[@olaftheblack4543]

I got out of high school worked in restaurants and other low paying jobs for a year. then I went in the military and then worked in a hospital after that and went at night and got my degree, it was very focused no BS classes (the military let me CLEP through almost a full year. Taught me discipline and then compassion. Now though, the military is woke and we are probably going into WW3 and hospitals or medical is all about pharmacy medication mills. Sadly just not the same.

[@armandoh6074]

Tom is honestly the GOAT, so vital in the podcast

[@networth00]

Yet he sent his kids to college.

[@timothybuchanan5373]

We need more young people entering the trades Carpenter plumbers electricians, welders, pipefitters mechanics those are honorable positions.

[@ethanstrong]

You guys have all the best conversations.

[@robertneblett4477]

I worked for several years for a company that required a bachelors degree to start work. We didn’t care what the degree was in because we were going to train them to do the job. Basically the degree was just to show they had the fortitude to finish school. But the bigger problem with people graduating from college is not that they didn’t take some thing that was worthwhile, but that they learned nothing and all the liberal arts activities that are required in college. they have no grasp of the arts, civics, economics, or humanities. If it’s not about TikTok or the Internet, then you really can’t have a conversation with them because they’re just not that smart.

[@workingshlub8861]

i never understood that....id say 4 plus years solid in the workforce is just a legit as a 4 year degree....

[@robertneblett4477]

@@workingshlub8861 you’ll get no argument from me. I will tell you this though. The best employees we had were the ones that went to night school and did online degrees. Most of them just got a degree to advance their careers and not to gain any extra knowledge. I was fortunate. I earned my degree while in the military and it was free.

[@Timrsnakess]

1000% agree apprenticeships offer a lot more to people who aren’t interested in college

[@ResearchNDesignFinance]

First off, college is not a no-brainer, and it's worth considering for certain majors and professions. With the ever-increasing costs of tuition and student loans, it's understandable why some folks might be questioning whether the investment is really worth it in the long run. They also point out that colleges seem to be operating more like hedge funds these days. This means they're focused on making money through investments and endowments, potentially at the expense of providing a quality education. This insight might make us wonder if our hard-earned money is going towards our education or into the pockets of administrators. Moreover, they suggest that government intervention in higher education might be making things worse. The idea here is that government policies and regulations could be contributing to the high costs and complexities of college. This viewpoint might resonate with those of us who value personal freedom and less government interference. Of course, it's important to remember that there are differing opinions on this matter. Some believe that a college degree is still a valuable asset, offering important skills and opportunities. Others argue that the rising costs and student debt are causing many to rethink their educational paths.

[@FerventFourEyes]

I value this channel so so much. This is priceless content, THANK YOU

[@deitrichheard7580]

Encourage more trade schools

[@ForgottenChildMusic]

Degrees are as good as the connections you have. My English college professor used to tell us, is not what you know, it’s who you know.

[@Buttersandthedancingflea]

If you go to college responsibly: community college, trade schools, public university, major that’s marketable, it can be a very good investment. If you do it irresponsibly it can REALLY set you back

[@workingshlub8861]

trade school is a 99% guaranteed win....you will have never have problerm getting work....

[@jackcarraway4707]

​@@workingshlub8861That's a myth. I own an electrical business and I toss any application with just trade school and no experience into the trash. Get an apprenticeship.

[@kstrazz3552]

depends on what your degree is.......obviously this isnt the rule, but if you major in finance for example at a halfway decent school.....get an internship after junior year.......you have a good chance at landing something good with potential upward mobility. If you major in basket weaving, ya, you're probably f'd.

[@artmariemakes]

Cries in Canada. Internships are not even a thing (maybe in Toronto/Vancouver ) so my gap year proved to be useless bc there was literally nothing to do other than serving or retail or government jobs. I really convinced myself if I worked hard in retail I could move up in the company bc I did actually like retail but it was literally impossible. I couldn’t even move passed a shift leader position after being in retail for 7 years and I couldn’t get into luxury retail without experience in luxury retail. I felt like a slave working for the government so I quit that after 4 years. After I went back to school It took me another 4 years to get a job in my field thanks to a fellow peer and I still started at $18/hr…exactly what I was making in retail.. At one point I moved to Toronto thinking bigger cities=more opportunities.. What a joke that was. I believe I applied to over 2000 jobs ACROSS CANADA after I finished school. I have like 20 different versions of my resume and applying for jobs now makes me want to burst into tears. I can’t do it. Looking back, I would have gotten into the beauty industry like my parents suggested. Hair, nails, lashes etc. I used to think getting into that was a cop out but my friends in the industry are the only ones that staying afloat.

[@maxdream2178]

Fascinating, convo. Toms a G. Very smart guy, and when he says he’s on the fence regarding college(outside of specific parameters) wow.. The value isn’t there anymore.

[@raymondreddington3572]

3:10 - u don’t need to do pre-law, do the law office program!!!!

[@allistar420]

If everyone goes to college and graduated, will there be jobs for them after? This has made getting those higher paying jobs very competitive to the point most graduates will be working regular jobs for the rest of their life with debt from that degree. The cost is crazy for how little you get these days. My degree hasn't got me a better job. I think working consistently; always moving up and learning more things while earning money makes more sense.

[@phyllislovelace8151]

Thank you gentlemen

[@adrilongstreet3112]

I think we can trace the problem back to a societal mindset shift that children have to move out of the home and be on their own when they turn 18. That's a very recent perspective in history. Why do we think kids are automatically ready to just be adults at 18? A lot of adults aren't ready to be adults.

[@Jaxjags2826]

It’s not. Graduated in 2016 and can say my alma mater did not do anything, had no relevant connections, and continues to call for donations. If you’re wanting to go into a specific field college is for you. If not then go to community college for two years, go into the trades, or become a coder/engineer.

[@williamkelley7654]

I told my kids to stay far away from college. Up here in Canada it is worse than in the US, so many useless degrees.

[@l.l.9042]

What are your kids doing instead?

[@JohnTube2K]

My college was $12k a year when I start and $14k when graduated in 1999…. Today that same college is $58k a year….. I have a hard time trying to promote it due to this

[@anthonylamura8600]

Technical or Trade school the way to go !

[@tomsetberg4746]

The only thing worthwhile in college is networking. I have 2 degrees and was half way through my third (all computer science) when I quit, and I can't even get a phone call from companies. It's just worthless. For most fields (aside from those that require massive resources you have no access to like medicine) just self study and develop a portfolio that proves you know your field. And this doesn't even begin to get into the fact that when the government took over student loans they have zero incentive to educate you. They control "accreditation", they control your requirements, they control the education, and they control financing. So if you control how valuable someone is when graduating college... why make them valuable? Why not under-educate them and basically force them into a masters program to double their debt?

[@thekidloveseveryone]

Always hear it's who you know not what you know 😂

[@PSOpwnage]

Like 20% of ppl will actually graduate something nobody talks about

[@DMDvideo10]

I think more people should utilize State Colleges and smaller, less expensive schools. As parents we wouldn't allow our kids to take out loans unless they were make reasonable choices. I don't understand how a parent would allow their child to start their young adult with hundreds of thousands in debt. To each his own...

[@jaimegranado7278]

I graduated in 2020 with a bachelor’s in health sciences and still haven’t found a job related to this field because apparently prior experience is needed for entry level roles and I refuse to get the vaccine, which is mandatory at most clinical settings. As of today, I don’t think it was worth it. I wasted valuable years of my life just to end up working a retail job and now I have to start paying back my loans.

[@maroon9273]

You are qualified to get any licensing in your degree?

[@alvarotorres9057]

I think what they teach you in undergraduate, you can teach it in high school. There’s a lot of redundancy in middle school, high school and college.

[@jalon3334]

I 100% agree. Your first two years of college are on those classes that you took in high school. Many students try to limit this by taking AP classes in high school and then attempting to pass the exams, but you still have to pay for those exams. I graduated this past May and I chose to go to community college. So far community college has been very cost affective while I complete my general education courses.

[@shawnsenese1760]

College is only good for a few select degrees like accounting, finance, nursing, doctor, it, computer science, etc.

[@TheReallyBadChannel]

People who advocate for college, have "time & finance bias". They spent the time & money getting the degree, thus, it has to be worth it.

[@bgandjsco1]

You Signed...you pay. Get your Gen-eds out of the way at community college and then attend a state 4-year school, as long as you know what you want to do, and are College material. It is sickening that we should be rewarding this kind of irresponsible behavior.

[@whereeaglesdare9584]

I figured this out 10 years ago at 27. And I would apply it retroactively that average college degree for average person stopped having a positive ROI probably between 2000-2008. AKA if all of the people who graduated with all types of degrees in the year 2000 or after, less than half of them it benefitted more than just starting to work, or honestly even have bought a house or two.

[@whereeaglesdare9584]

2000 would be not factoring in intangible benefits like social networking and fun and 2008 would be even factoring that benefit.

[@asajayunknown6290]

The problem with the gap year is that the majority of the financial aid, be it academic or athletic, are only offered to those coming directly from high school. The STEM comment about it being male-dominated made me grin cuz upwards of 80% of current college applicants are female

[@ASM1908]

To me, my biggest issue with college is that it’s a necessity in order to obtain higher level professional degrees. Let me give you an example: I am currently a 1st year resident physician. In this country, you need a 4 year college degree + 4 years of medical school. I have floated this idea around to some of my colleagues and we all have come into agreement. Instead of requiring 4 years of undergrad where basically none of that information helps us as doctors, why not have medical school start at 18 for those that are sure they want to pursue becoming a physician. Instead of 4 years, maybe make it 5 years straight out of high school? That way graduates start residency at 23-24 instead of 26-27. College has been a complete waste and if anything, delayed my start to my career as a physician. I’d love to hear others thoughts.

[@mainsourcery]

They’d be losing money if you went straight into what’s relevant.

[@ASM1908]

@@mainsourcery I both agree and disagree with it. Colleges would lose money, but I’m not sure the medical schools would. In fact, I would argue that bypassing college would result in more people applying to medical school. Many people feel burnt out after college and instead of doing more schooling just want to start making actual money. By eliminating the undergraduate requirement, physicians will begin earning money at a comparable age to their undergraduate counterparts as opposed to often not making $$ 3-4 years after their undergraduate counterparts.

[@mainsourcery]

@@ASM1908 I think what I meant to say was what you said..colleges would lose money, not really the programs/institutions teaching the relevant info.

[@GilmerJohn]

During most of WWII, the federal government set up a "V6" program which would take 18 yo young men and turn them into MDs in 6 years. The under grad degree for medical school has very lax requirements and people with "basket weaving" degrees have gotten into medical school (& became decent doctors).

[@ASM1908]

@@GilmerJohnso why not have both as an option? For those that are certain that want to be a doctor they can do a 5-6 year program straight out of high school. For those not 100% sure, they can do the traditional undergraduate route and then decide if they want to pursue it after.

[@lucken13]

1981, went in the Army! Retired 2001! Youngest is working to get his Masters, is a teacher!!!

[@StayTunedReviews]

College, rent/mortage healthcare, insurance, food... costs are going up and people are being priced out. There is no happy ending for this path.

[@kane7346]

Tom just won the best comment award. My kid went in as a moderate and came out as a Marxist. Lol

[@sibairwavincent7902]

Non fees negotiators are the problem. It's like in a festive season when transport is high due to high demand over supply leading to problems just like education everywhere.

[@Nevox34]

Please do something about the colleges around the world. Everyone's mental health is getting worse because of school/college.

[@mikefatah]

College education in the US can be frivolous unless the student is truly determined to get what he or she wants out of it.

[@heypat34]

My son is a Soph at a large University. Called me yesterday and told me that 3 of his classes (2 biz and 1 English Comp) are all focused on Sustainability and climate outcomes. These institutions are programming not educating!

[@r-uu2qi]

Reduce tuition for all online degrees. Make it a government mandate, if needed. Colleges and big ED are ripping people off.

[@thewillsfamilyaccount6486]

It’s just far too much for a young person to decide and take on! A gap year is such a fantastic idea! 😊

[@juanch6936]

“Yerrs” Love it

[@carlosmaldonado7363]

That last point makes me laugh. “My kids go to college and he come out with different ideas” Like no shit lmao. It’s mind blowing how much people don’t like people just having different idea than them.

[@maroon9273]

And different planning and strategies.

[@oldakkoshuk]

I'm from Israel. At 18 I had a very vague idea regarding my future. Luckily, I served 3 (not 2) years in the Israeli Air Force, got more mature - and enrolled to University.

[@gugy68]

My son goes to UCSD, and we pay for him a $20k tuition per year (after scholarships and discounts). It's expensive and we do wonder. He did go to community college for two years and transferred. Luckily we are in a position to afford it but it's a crime Tuition is so expensive for colleges and trade schools and kids are getting into these ridiculous loans and strapping themselves for decades. The US system is indeed collapsing because down the road we will have a massively uneducated/unskilled population. We also highly considered sending him abroad to study at much cheaper rates and get a broader view of the world. This is also a great option.

[@sullathehutt7720]

When he comes back a gay communist with a drug problem, you'll have no one to blame but yourself. 🤷

[@ExMachina70]

Pre-College "I love you mom and dad." Post College "My parents are white transphobe, racists that refuse to recognize my gender identity as a Non-Binary, black, robot, kitty cat."

[@ANameIOnceHad]

Came from a poor family. Went to college. Married up. Make $100 + an hr doing a job that required professional licensure, which required degrees. Cost is 5-10% discretionary income by student loan repayment program. For me, it was a good choice.

[@neilt4723]

It’s easy this If you are super bright and hungry to become something that requires academic qualifications - focus on college and uni and nail it If you aren’t academically bright, use the time to focus down on something you want to do that doesn’t require academic qualifications and double down on it Apprenticeships is a really good solution to the second option.

[@Boom38119]

The problem with that is a lot of parents look down on blue collar careers and they steer their children towards higher ed. I work in higher ed and see and hear this all the time.

[@neilt4723]

@@Boom38119 didn’t realise that as I’m British, apologies, not as easy as I thought then 🤦🏻‍♂️ I think the British are less entrepreneurial than the US citizens but I would say a lot of parents already know about the power of apprenticeships over here

[@Boom38119]

@@neilt4723 Consider yourself lucky. It used to be like that decades ago but the high schools, parents, and the govt made an effort to push us into higher ed and that was a huge mistake on the parents end but a great outcome for the govt and their shareholders who profit from the student loans.

[@neilt4723]

@@Boom38119 absolutely, it’s Robert Kiyosaki isn’t it, they want kids in the school system to teach them to be employees so they pay full rate income tax 😢

[@stephendownes6331]

The best way for young adults to work out what they want to do is if they have to do something they do not. Since I don't know say the late 90's every child has known nothing but immeasurable choice and the option of what they want, don't ask kids what they want to do when they leave school, ask them how they are going to pay back the world for living. Trades are great because they are immediately immersed in rules, getting up early and physical work, the military is even better to straighten out their bent spines and mushy brains. Any system that perpetuates wants now and pay later is a sentence to servitude.

[@Pitchblue1]

depends on the degree... not everyone has the option to open a business. For those who choose the college path make sure you are studying an actual profession and not some liberals arts bs, maybe after you make some money and experience you can also start your own business ? doesnt have to be one or the other

[@ryanm9628]

I went to College and all my colleagues did as well. We live in California and all of us own a home. We all make over 100k a year. With hard work, College is a great investment.

[@imhopelesslyaddictedtofent4266]

You don’t think you could’ve made over 100k without a degree?

[@mmr4882]

You get free college in California for community colleges.

[@charles6762]

a college education is not to title one to a monetary return on investment a college education should be to educate one to have the ability to understand and appreciate the world one lives in through critical thinking and an appreciation of the arts and cultures of the world. These and the ability to communicate through the spoken and written word are the advantages of a college education. In today's world it is more important than ever to have a basis in the humanities that can be built upon by any discipline . Entrepreneurs especially need these abilities and understandings to move in a more and more complex world.

[@mr.bluenotedoobop]

Look at a college state like Massachusetts. There's a college on every corner. BU and Northeastern own like half the streets of Boston. That's where the tuition goes, because the education itself didn't get 4 times as good as it was 20 years ago.

[@laurensauvageot1196]

Trade Schools, Apprenticeship, Military Training and on the Job Training is beneficial for those who don't aspire to being a Doctor, Engineer, Scientist, and the likes. Many HS Graduates want that freedom in a college atmosphere so think "College" especially if they're not paying for it. All in all, people need to be VERY selective and discerning in these important decisions.

[@Taralittleandloud]

for our family. We are one income family. We could not afford it, so what my older two had to do was take advantage of learning on the job getting into a career entry level that they liked and having that employer pay for them to go to school basically so they go to school they pass the employer reimburses them

[@C1K450]

Price of college is what turns young Americans off. Even the useless degrees are priced really high. I’m sure a lot of us in this country wants to become doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, and pilots but college plus additional schooling like law, medical, and flight schools will cost you 6 figures.

[@collegepennsylvania837]

“The gospel is that I am so sinful that Jesus had to die for me, yet so loved and valued that Jesus was glad to die for me. This leads to deep humility and deep confidence at the same time. I can’t feel superior to anyone, and yet I have nothing to prove to anyone.” - Tim Keller

[@eno4844]

You get training as soon as you get hired .. whats college for ?

[@Athens8677]

1 - Trade schools all the time every day. 2 - if you’re going to college with specific intent (law, medicine, engineering or the sciences) then clearly not a waste 3 - if you’re getting some BS social sciences degree then yes you’re wasting your fucking time Lastly - college shows an employer that you showed up somewhere reliably for four years and did a acceptable job on some tasks. Chances are you’re capable of doing the same for them without fucking it up monumentally.

[@jesseballard4753]

This is all true- in 1987 I went to the Rochester Institute of Technology School of Applied Industrial Technology for one year. The cost was $8360. Prior to this I worked at a car dealership, so I saw credit applications for many professions.The few medical doctor applications I saw showed an income of $80,000. One day a mold came in with an income of $60,000. My first year making molds I earned $33,000. By 1997 I was earning $90,000. The government of the United States of America sold its people down the road for cheap Asian labor and $19.95 dvd players. Today a mail man can make $100,000 .

[@resram]

The last stage of brain development, is 25, and there's an awful lot of 20 something year olds, under the age of 25, that don't have a sold game plan for their life. Making massive financial, and life decisions in your late teens, and through your twenties, requires parental guidance.

[@philmac1994]

I hear you with the gap year, but the main alternative being the military is not the move. Signing parts of your freedom away to"figure it out" ain't it

[@IIBLaCKBeaRDII]

He forgot the 4th factor. Kids don't need college to make bank anymore, there is social media. It's going to end college.

[@sullathehutt7720]

False.