Amiga 4000 and the Holy PPC inspection

[@jjock3239]

A very interesting video, Chris. My non working 4000, is warp engine equipped, and when the machine is turned on, it seems to be totally dead. I have disassembled the machine, and discovered that this is a mother board with the 030 processor surface mounted. This was quite surprising, because the chip ram is not surface mounted as I suspected it would be. I always learn something from your videos, and thanks for doing what you do.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

that sounds like the 4000 CR model

[@jjock3239]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration That is what I thought I was going to find, but this board is marked as a Rev B board. From looking at examples online, two differences between this board and the Rev D, are that this board has the slot for removable chip ram, and has the nicad battery. I also noticed, that the Rev D board, is marked in a different place. The silk screen marking for the Rev D board on the example, is located on the other side of the Zorro 3 slot, and states 4000CR Rev D, So I guess I have an example of another modification by Commodore.

[@LanceHall]

I know NOTHING about Amiga but I like these videos.

[@_Reynolds_]

My most beloved accelerator ever. Miss mine so much.

[@curiousottman]

I had a problem similar to this. It too was the connector. I bought the plastic legs for the accelerator to the motherboard to mount securely and evenly. My problem resolved. The accelerator cards are heavy and take a toll on the plastic cpu slot connector.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

This was later sent to a professional shop to be x-rayed, and they found that the 060 needed to be reflowed

[@GadgetUK164]

I've seen that exact same behaviour (graphical glitches when just sat at Kickstart screen there) due to power problems! I bet power connections on the KEL are the issue! Great video Chris =D

[@AndyDavis007]

Thank you, Chris. Always learn something. Keep up the great work.

[@AndyDavis007]

Btw, you've got a great community here 🙂

[@shawnbergin8479]

We love your work Chris, Thank you for the upload.

[@a4000t]

The flux Cyberstorms connector is common,since the board is surface mount and reflowed,then the Kel connector is soldered in last and they didn't clean the flux off on many boards,its pretty common to see.

[@liamodell7191]

I have learned a bit from these videos. I have little electronic experience with repairing pinball driver boards in the late 90's and early 2000's. My brother got into collecting and selling pinball machines as a hobby/side business and my main job was to repair PCBs that suffered damage due to battery leaks and the vast majority of these batteries were store bought AA (used to keep high scores in storage after the machine was shut off). Some of these coin-ops were in storage since the mid 80's or longer. It's been well over a decade but I would like to start off by getting a Commodore 64 build kit and start from there. Over time when I gain enough experience, I'd like to try and buy broken Amigas and fix them. I'm a huge advocate for preserving the computers that shaped my life. I adore my Commodore. :)

[@jasonwatson9011]

The brown "snot" on the solder for the KEL connector was how they came from the factory (Or at least mine). I think they coated them with something. Possibly worried about the 604e heatsink shorting it. Once the heat sink is unclipped from the 604e and the ram is removed you should have full access to the KEL connector solder pins. Shouldn't be any need to remove the 604e or the ram sockets. I just had to deoxit mine carefully with cotton swabs. Just testing the 16MB fast ram showed the KEL issue fairly quickly with ram errors until cleaned. My card needs to have the accelerator card support posts in place. I use black nylon threaded hex posts in my A4K along with screws and nuts of the same material (do not over tighten or they will either snap or if in luck just cam out and jump threads.

[@10MARC]

Nice card! Hopefully she will make a 100% recovery

[@HaMMeR_Oz]

My name is Ben, short for bending pins. 😁

[@cullmaster7361]

Good vid Chris 👍🏻 I own that card on one of my A4K systems. The extra expansion connector is for the Phase 5/DCE CVision RTG graphics card (Permedia 2 8MB). The MapROM is probably off as Amiga OS4.1FE won’t work with MapROM on for the PPC side. They are a good card, when they work. Have mine overclocked from Stachu (66mhz 060 and 420Mhz 604e). They can be problematic, not enough airflow. I use the Blizzard 603e versions (040 and 060). These are even more problematic as they require a good 5volt supply.

[@jasonwatson9011]

Nice

[@danielson9579]

I loved my 240mhz ppc with am oced 040 to 40mhz in my A1200 tower played ppc doom and quake like a champ use to use the ppc side to encode mp3s 🙂

[@screemoh]

This is the perfect example why people preferred the WarpEngines, just more solid. Cyberstorms are known to self destruct, especially the PPC ones. Many just removed the PPC and went M68k instead.

[@a4000t]

Many csppc problems were they came with a 5v cheap fan,and users who don't keep the cards clean and check on the fan,when it fails it can literally desolder the ppc chip if ran without cooling long enough. Memory chips under ram run hot,more cooling there helps.putting a better 12v fan is the fix. the 060 cpu socket being surface mounted with no lead solder was the second problem,flexing the card can pop the socket solder joints loose. A4000's should have standoff's and screws to keep the accelerator from creeping out via heat cycles on and off. that being said my csppc has been going strong in my elbox tower since i got the accelerator way back. Its also time to recap cyberstorm ppc's if they haven't been, they are overdue.

[@biblebadcopycatofcuneiform8210]

Hello Chris, Do you so repairs of Amiga 4K box PSUs? I have one that needs repair. When it's connected to my A4K with a Cyberstorm PPC 68zer60 and 604e, with my bad PSU I can see screen glitches as you see in this video. If I use an A4K PSU that IS in good condition still, there are zero problems using 68zer060 and PPC - display is clean as it should be with everything from AGA to RTG. I have tried going ATX with the Amiga-Kit A4K adapter but if I want to use the PPC programs the A4K crashes / locks. I have tried several ATX PSUs with different watts from lower to much higher. All of them function well with my Windows systems. So... I have to use Amiga 4K PSUs. OR...from talking to some others, something was modified on this Cyberstorm so that it only works with 4K PSUs...which can be changed but I don't know how to do it and I am not skilled with soldiering, and I don't want to pay a LOT of money to Poland to get it altered to function with ATXs. I have a recapping package for A4K PSU..so I would send that. Are you able to do the PSU repair? Or...update my good one with new caps? Ask any questions you have. :-) Ohh...68zer060 because I don't pronounce numbers as letters. :-)

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

i am capable but i do not normally fix power supplies, i have done ONE 3000's power supply as i was asked to, if a ATX conversion didnt do your needs idk what the A4000's regular power supply has thaat they dont, as long as your ATX has a +5, -5V ,+12 and -12v rail it will work fine. unless the Cyberstorm is just borked. which most of those PPC"s are, as they were BGA soldered to the boards and come desoldered w cracks after 20+ years

[@biblebadcopycatofcuneiform8210]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration As I commented, the Cyberstorm PPC functions exactly as it should and will does so for a full day if I let it, and I have. From PPC programs and games to normal zer060 usage, not one crash or lockup happens unless, of course, I run programs that cause the OS to have problems later. I've made my own Startup menu that will also start Workbench normally, so I could make a list before Workbench to select games to play. So I've noticed after some games that have bugs still..a crash or lock will happen. So the CSPPC isn't borked (funny word, ha ha) but if I use that failing PSU and the wires aren't just right, then yes, the grabled stuff will happen. Ohh, so you know, I have my A4000 connected outside of the shell. I have had it that way for a while because I was troubleshooting previous stuff and just haven't gotten it back into the case, and airflow is great. Ha! I'm sorry but "as they were BGA soldered to the boards and come desoldered w cracks after 20+ years" is Greek to me. I understand some of what you're referencing but..not much. I have problems understanding the voltage parts.. I could share images with you, even close ups at 1080P if you'd like. I know that something has been altered with this CSPPC, I bought it from someone else since my original was using Rev 1 zer060 and original PPC which ran too hot and it damaged the board. The guy who updated the CSPPC I have, that is only functioning well with original A4K Box PSU does a lot of repairs and resells through AmiBay. Stanu100 or something like that. Which is why I'm seeking someone to repair the Original PSU...and hoping recapping and checking the wires is all that's needed since my other PSU is working great. I know the OS pretty well, but I have some challenges following some of the hardware lingo. Ohhh...!! I meant to comment, if you still have that A4K and the Cyberstorm PPC, AND you have functional Amiga 4000 Power Supply Unit, like I have, try that without the ATX. I am really thinking that'll cause it to function without any glitches on the screen, any native screen. I really appreciate the reply.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@biblebadcopycatofcuneiform8210 i can give it a try i guess, i had to special order the capacitors last time from italy as my normal sources are out of the larger ones and backorders are 30+ months!, shoot me an email, use a computer to browse my youtube page and click the "about" tab theres a click for contact button that will give you my email address. we can further talk there.

[@ChuckyGang]

A VERY common issue on CSPPC is that the 040/060 socket get loose. and as it is BGA soldered (!) it is a hard fix. :-/ you usually notice it that it works (for a whort while) if you press hard down on the 040/060 cpu.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

yup, was an inspetion for me, not a repair, i dont have the method or the ability to do bga anything. its gone off to retrorewind for a xray scan to see whats up

[@f1lupo]

have the same issue with the connector on my Viper 060 card…get random black screens 80% of the time and I’ve been told they were hard to find back in the 90’s never mind now😢

[@jasonwatson9011]

Mine is twitchy occasionally and usually the 060 socket. I have a fan blowing over the ram and gal chips and a fan on both 604e and 060 CPU's. If I push on the 060 socket it's usually good again - until next time. The 060 socket is surface mounted not through pin so the solder tend to crack over time. The last time I had 060 socket issue it was the vibration of a poor high speed cd-rom and a badly balanced disk - the virbration showed up the cracked 060 socket connection/s.

[@jasonwatson9011]

When I had a fast slot oxidation issue if I used Amiga test kit and tested the 16MB on board fast ram I got errors (Good Ram) - until I Deoxit cleaned the slot (carefully) on the main board and the cards connector. Testing the main board fast ram found the fault faster for me as the CS-PPC on board fast ram passed. Following cleaning error disappeared.

[@matthewmoebes2443]

I've been told that every one of these cards will eventually fail because of the 060 socket issues you described above. The socket needs to be reballed. Reflowing it works for some(not my two cards) but is only temporary fix.

[@a4000t]

@@matthewmoebes2443 I've reflowed about 5 of them and its worked,but its a hairy operation and i've done it in a uncommon way. I grind a copper tip for the soldering iron to the right angle to fit the top of the 060 socket pins.. flood the underside with flux between socket and board then go over each pin,applying heat. They really should of used thru hole socket but the board is so packed i see why they couldnt. Many people keep using the original plastic standoffs where u have to pop the card onto the pins,and this causing board flex. using screw in standoff's is the best way.

[@jasonwatson9011]

@@a4000t That's the method I was considering. New soldering tip few seconds heat and move pin. No solder on tip. Flux underneath. I wont attempt it until I have a new home available for the CPU if needed (Terrible Fire when available hopefully). I do like this card though because the SCSI "flys"

[@Animaltech]

I really enjoy your videos ! keep up the good work ! can i ask where you got that gif playing screen on the wall from? peace!

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

sure its called a divoom Tivoo (little tv looking one), and the big one is called a pixoo max from divoom dot com or ebay

[@Animaltech]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration amazing,thank you for your time.

[@unidahl5821]

Isn't flux conductive? Maybe a good clean is what's needed?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

No flux is not conductive

[@shawnbergin8479]

Texans have to compensate for the heat issue on everything we are involved with, not just the electronics. Thank God for modern central air conditioning.

[@a4000t]

thankful for a/c here,its freaking hot :)

[@WhiteHareGames]

I have an 060 Cyber Mk III (no PPC) which worked fine last time I used it (3 years ago) when I upgraded the FlashROM - it had been flakey before then and my research said it needed the ROM data upgrading, which did indeed make it more stable. The machine went into storage and recently came out. Now - nothing. I can't get to the dbl-mouse screen, or the ESC screen. Just black. I've cleaned it all with IPA, the CPU pins and female sockets look okay, though of course I can't see/test the joins the the board. Would replacing the 50KHz crystal possibly solve this? Any other ideas what it might be? (Pressing gently on the CPU does not work, so I do not think it is that.)

[@WhiteHareGames]

Changing the crystal did not help. I think the 060 must be dead. Will hopefully be able to check that at SWAG next month.

[@a4000t]

is there any battery damage on the board? if not wiggle the crystals in the sockets,and if you still have nothing i suspect kickstart roms maybe? do you have a A3640 on hand to test with maybe?

[@WhiteHareGames]

@@a4000t There's nothing wrong with the A4000 itself, only the Cyberstorm. The 4000 works fine with an 030 in.

[@champagnechips3163]

Hey Dr Chris! I always wondered, what's in that bottle with the white liquid next to your main monitor? 🙂

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Its a prop of a fake potion just epoxy with a light underneath

[@r.fortal6322]

Shield the Amigo 4000 from external emf and most problems will be solved. I had this problems in the nineties last century when the were built a new train track close to my house generating a lot of EMF

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Im good

[@a4000t]

EMF from a train,now that's not a problem i ever expected to hear about.

[@jkdsteve]

I dunno what’s up with these PPC cards, maybe residue from manufacturing, I’ve had 3 all with brown crap on the KEL. One from new even back in the good old days.

[@benbaselet2026]

Man you are mispronouncing those degrees Frankenstein. I'd be slightly worried about any of those old gunks on the board, they can soak up moisture and start aspire to be resistors with meaningful values.

[@psyolent.]

Pennyslyvania?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

its where i live.

[@psyolent.]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration just love the spelling

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Lol

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@psyolent. im a moron

[@psyolent.]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration oh you didn't know? i used to live in a place called hoppers crossing which i named hopeless cursing ;)

[@Jkauppa]

its was a tarp

[@Jkauppa]

what a cliff hanger, that coil

[@Jkauppa]

mockery ie "yours truly", nope, God's, not mine/ or anyone elses, not through law service, thats plasphemy

[@memadmax69]

Clean that brown crap off, it can short crap....