Amiga 500 V Atari ST - Lemmings

[@LeShark75]

Has to be the Amiga version for me, brilliant game.

[@Skeeballman64]

Same. The mod files sound the best too.

[@alexanderbjork6451]

I have an Atari ST and an AMIGA 600 and I like booth of them. This game is basically the same on booth systems, the differences beeing the intros and sound.

[@lurkerrekrul]

The ST version looks fine, but the audio sounds like it was taken straight off the Atari 8-bit line of machines.

[@Foebane72]

Wrong, the Atari 8-bit has a BETTER sound chip than the shitty ST.

[@stunthumb]

It is efficient though, you have to admit that. The ST sound chip can play music with practically no impact on the CPU... so that's very cheap music production with no processor overhead, fast loading because of the small files, and very little memory usage. Really though you should find a worthwhile example of ST music, like the Shadow of the Beast soundtrack, or any Bitmap Bros game.

[@alexatkin]

stunthumb The overhead on Amiga is low too. It was quite amazing how hood such tiny low quality samples could sound at the time.

[@WildMorgan]

I actually quite like that 8 bit sound 😂

[@lurkerrekrul]

@@WildMorgan My biggest problem with it is that the music often doesn't 'flow' smoothly. It sounds kind of disjointed at times.

[@PassiveSmoking]

Amiga version had better sound and smoother scrolling, but far more importantly, it supported two player mode with two mice. ST 2 player forced one player to use a joystick. Therefore Amiga wins.

[@youuuuuuuuuuutube]

Wow I didn't even know there was a multiplayer option. I only played it in single player mode.

[@leeball4585]

solution - play half games with joystick/mouse and the other half the other way round like me and my best mate did in our teens - therefore ST wins.

[@PassiveSmoking]

@@youuuuuuuuuuutube In 2 player-mode you could only control lemmings on your "team", but you stored points if lemmings from either team went through your exit. So in addition to saving as many of your lemmings as possible, you also had the option of trying to steal lemmings or screw up the other player's rescue attempts. As you can imagine this led to a few fist-fights.

[@GrazzaD]

No it didn't, I used a mouse with my Atari ST on lemmings.

[@PassiveSmoking]

@@GrazzaD In two player mode? I remember going round a friend's house who had an ST, and one of us would get lumbered with the joystick for 2-player Lemmings. Led to quite a few fights.

[@PacGuy765]

Oh, I missed out another difference: Intro: Amiga: The Colour of the Lemmings have Shades and Gradients and the lemmings land in random places Atari ST: The Colour of the Lemmings are simple-coloured with no Shades and/or Gradients, but they do fall in the same spot

[@peloquin1979]

Great game on both machines. Have you done one of these comparison videos for Vroom yet?

[@PacGuy765]

Differences: Intro: Amiga: Balloon appears from the right and colour shades are brighter Atari ST: Balloon appears from the top, intro is alot slower and has no sound Cursor: Amiga has a Lemming sleeping in bed, Atari just has a "ZZZ" Bubble and they are slightly more pink The cursor during game play: Amiga: Cross is mainly Green and Yellow Atari ST: Cross is mainly Blue and Green Music: Atari's soundtrack is slightly mixed up(Mountain instead of Can Can on level 1 for example), compared to the Amiga and plays the music straight away instead of waiting for the "Let's go" Font: Numbers are more "square" on the Atari ST during gameplay Loading: Atari ST is slightly faster

[@onlineamiga]

Prince Jamie The 7th You forgot to add that the music sounds like shit on the ST version :P

[@PacGuy765]

agreed

[@CastleFamilyThe]

The only major differences were 2 mouse support on Amiga and the sfx and music so much better on the Amiga, gameplay wise they are identical, Amiga wins though on audio!

[@MEGAMIGA]

CastleFamilyThe Correct.

[@bibby5000]

oh my god that loading sound :D

[@MichalBergseth-AmitopiaTV]

It seems like the diskette reading is faster on Atari ST, but when it comes to graphics and music Amiga is far better. Nice comparisson!

[@dazzlypants5909]

The disk reading on the Atari is faster for two reasons. Firstly, the Atari is only displaying 16 colour graphics, the Amiga version in several places is displaying 32 colour graphics which obviously take up more memory and disk space and therefore will take longer to load. The options screen on the Amiga is in 16 colour HIRES mode which takes up 75K of diskspace on its own. The Amiga version uses modules for music, which contain samples which don't easily compress, whereas the Atari uses chip music which is magnitudes smaller. So the disk reading on the Atari is faster simply because its loading less data, not because the floppy drive or the routines to read from it are super fast or anything like that.

[@WildMorgan]

@@dazzlypants5909 The reason why it loads faster is irrelevant. All that most people would have seen and appreciated back in the day is that it loaded faster.

[@daishi5571]

@@WildMorgan Hardly irrelevant, after all not everyone has seen or played these games let alone on the relevant platform. Hopefully at least some people would like to know reasons for why things are the way they are.

[@WildMorgan]

@@daishi5571 Sure, SOME people would. And it is interesting. All I'm saying is that MOST people would see that the ST version loaded faster and that would have been the end of it. They would have just taken it as a "pro" regarding the ST version, just as the Amiga peeps would have taken the graphics and sound as "pros" on their version.

[@rnichol22]

Amiga for the music and sound alone

[@danielwilliamson6180]

Lemmings is a classic game.

[@MrFixer1983]

The Atari ST version only load faster, but the Amiga version wins again. Great game that I played alot on my Amiga 500 back then.

[@JohnSmith-uu5ov]

I suppose people could play the games on the Atari St and just have a separate music system playing over the top, the best of both worlds.

[@jacot1969]

Amiga the best!!!!!!

[@Rarestgameplayer]

Oh,,,,, Atari St's sound is like 8-bit sound. What the..

[@AmigaRulez_parallax]

fuck

[@corgan59]

mon passage de l'enfance a l’adolescence a peut pret! A part les sons et les animations au début, c exactement les mêmes

[@naviamiga]

Nice, both great versions.

[@MartinJSUK]

Amiga wins on sound and intro, the speech adds more character to the Amiga version that you'd imagine if you played another version not knowing it was there originally, otherwise almost identical. Brilliant game on both systems.

[@klsaunders2656]

I used to love this game

[@Foebane72]

What's with the flicker on the Amiga fade in/out? It doesn't look like that on the game itself.

[@33LB]

has anyone ever found in differences between the gameplay? anyone who has played both the amiga version and the windows 95 port will know there are very subtle differences in the gameplay... is the same true of amiga vs atari ST?

[@cyberneticus7941]

Atari sounds like 8bit. Amiga definitely better

[@Ohlukei]

The Atari Lynx version is closer to the Amiga version than to the Atari ST version four couriosity.

[@bisc67]

ST audio was absolute shit. Sorry guys, the audio for ST lemmings was awful. Wish I'd picked a better guy to do it. Oh well. ST version loaded because I compressed everything. Sound samples were much smaller, due to crappier audio (only one or two actual sampled effects, Amiga had all sampled effects).

[@grex9101]

Brian Watson There weren't any samples in ST Lemmings... Were there?

[@sluggotg]

The Atari ST version... 16 colors out of 512, the Amiga version 32 Colors out of 4096, (too bad they did not use the 64 EHB mode to really trounce the St version). The Sound.. .Atari ST Mono... slightly above the C64 SID chip. The Amiga version... 4 channel Stereo Sound, No comparison! The Atari ST version of this Game... Very Good, Very Playable!!!! The Amiga Version.. Very High End back then!! Certainly the Caddy Version of the Games at that time!Sluggo

[@RetroDawn]

If you look at the in-game graphics, you'll see that only 16 out of 512 colors are used on both versions. I was truly bummed that they didn't take advantage of the Amiga's graphics BITD.

[@iXien]

I'm not very fond of these AMIGAST comparisons because for me it's a question of nostalgia and because they are generally proposed by AMIGA lovers. I suspect it here because GuruMediator indicates the reason why ST loads fastest like if he wanted to be sure that it can't be used as a good point (and Lemmings musics consist in one file with subsongs using the same sample bank so we can suppose it is loaded one time only in memory). But we don't care why it loads faster, it's a fact and a good point for this version. When you used to play on AMIGA, you know why you prefer this computer, and that's also true for ATARI ST. AMIGA is more powerful with 4096 colors available and a complete chipset, 4 voices stereo sound and PCM capabilities, 1Mb RAM rapidly imposed as a standard. 1040 STe is clearly much closer to the AMIGA specs but not a lot of games exploited these additions to keep 520 STf compatibility. Despite this, ST lovers will maintain that ST has more colorful graphics (due to less color shades with 512 colors only), that they prefer full soundchip musics (and that's true that a lot of AMIGA modules badly aged because of the use of cheap samples in a lot of games) and that there is generally no graphical differences between ST and AMIGA. And this is also true as lot of developers recently interviewed confirmed that games was firstly developed on ST because it was next easy to convert them to AMIGA. Generally, ST lovers prefer ST design (yes, it is nicer) and this so particular keyboard mecanism. I personally played on the two computers (A600 and ATARI STe) and it really depends of each game. Oldest games developed first on ST often play soundchip musics nicer to listen nowadays than modules using cheap samples on AMIGA. The native possibility to swap between 50/60Hz was a pretty cool feature on ST too. But second generation of games developed after 1992 clearly used AMIGA capabilities and here the rupture was complete as once again few games used STe additions (Stardust is really impressive on STe). Finally, it is now more a question of game sensibility than power capacities.

[@GuruMediator]

I made the videos so I could better see the differences on both machines, part nostalgia, (because I had both machines) part curiosity. Not to mention it provides more content for my channel which isn't very time consuming to make.. I do find the endless re-posting of numbers and specs quite tedious to read but that's just my view. I`m a fan of both machines, sometimes I like to play a game on the ST because of the differences, and I have a soft spot for the fuzzy warm chip sound...More Biased towards the Amiga though, spent more time with it and it has my favourite tracker software..

[@iXien]

I totally understand what you're talking about ;-) But sometimes technical informations are part of a good analysis. For exemple, when I read comments about your Turrican comparative, I see lot of people telling that for ST it is a good conversion but nothing tells about the smaller game area that make this version totally unplayable because you can't see correctly enemies approaching with sprites of the same size of the ones on AMIGA. But in other way, it's easy to play Eliminator in PAL/60Hz even on a 50Hz european ST, making the game far more smooth than on a stock PAL/50Hz A500. AMIGA games are generally nicer but some technical subtilities make some ST version very pleasant to play. You made your videos using emulators, isn't it ? Aren't you afraid that emulation isn't like real machine ?

[@keiyakins]

to be fair in this case it's lemmings. Even the Spectrum port of Lemmings is a great game because it's still freaking lemmings.

[@alexatkin]

RIET Julien I played on ST, prefer the Amiga. I just always valued sampled sound over fm. Not that chip music can't sound cool. Mixing both tends to work best.

[@wendellurth5801]

I dont think the music on level 2 Amiga version not playing correctly. I remember the pirate versions having problems with the music on this level as well for some reason. Listen to it on here and compare: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpurlKuCiKdgmLMm38s

[@AdrianCichorowski]

Amiga has smoother intro and much better audio. Hard to believe there's no Lemmings on mobile devices :)

[@przemekkobel4874]

+Adrian Cichorowski I believe I had couple of Lemmings games running on my Nokia E-51.

[@10p6]

This one is very very close. The only real real difference in graphics is the brightness, and I am guessing that is simply down to capture settings. The sound on the Amiga is cool, but the stereo is annoying. I'm giving this one to the ST. Disk loading on the ST version is also quicker.

[@Breadfan222]

***** Did you have sound turned off?

[@sluggotg]

+10p6 So the 32 colors out of 4096 on the Amiga.. Sucked compared to the 16 out of 512 on the ST???? and the 4 Channel Stereo sound on the Amiga sucked compared to the MONO on the ST. In the Opening Animation the ST could only support a few characters compared to the Amiga.. and No opening songs... Speaking of Songs.. What THE FLUX!!! How can you EVEN compare the music capability???? It is like the the ST is using Inbred Drunken Hillbillys blowing on wiskey bottles compared to Philharmonic Orchestra! And seriously the Amiga had Hardware acceleration for animation and was a Fully Pre-emptive Multitasking OS... VS Single tasking OS with no hardware acceleration. Give it up!! The ST was created in like 5 or 6 months it was amazing that the engineers met the timeframe that Jack dictated. But they had to use off the shelf chips to make it happen, (that is not taking away the fact that they got it done it that time). The programmer for this was Davey Jones... he was a grand master ninja in 68000 code. He pulled every ounce of power out of the ST platform. But reality is reality. It was a great port but is was not the Amiga version.Sluggo

[@10p6]

+sluggotg Wow that's a lot of comparisons considering I mentioned info on just one game. I feel sorry for your partner!

[@HaveAniceDay2450]

Of course Amiga version

[@Gunzee]

bloody hell it's really sad to read the comments here, after so many years the silly fan boyism still exists. Both versions sound good but you must be tone deaf to even try any imply the 'chip tune' sound of the st is more cheerful and the Amiga is dull. come on just be honest, for whatever reason the st version sounds really poor in comparison, in fact it's the st version that sounds dull. Both systems are evenly matched and from what I remember the st was the preferred system for music studios.

[@alexatkin]

Gunzee It's mental. I owned it on ST and still vastly prefer the Amiga version.

[@adamlewis1961]

I don't understand why the ST only had one voice and the Amiga had more than one for game music...

[@Gunzee]

@@adamlewis1961 simple answer is cost, the ST was much cheaper. They both used the same cpu & the ST's ran faster but the 500s design was better. Amiga had custom chips to take the load off the cpu, you'll notice it in the intro. The ST has less animation and lower fps as the cpu load is higher, 0:37 displays it.

[@franciszekzielony]

Identyczne.

[@bjbell52]

The Amiga version is better than the Atari ST version proving once again that the engineers working for Atari were superior to the ones from Commodore. Besides my Atari use to make a number load noises which I finally figured out what was causing it - it was the $595.00 worth of change jingling in my pocket that I had saved by buying the ST when it came out. Seriously, I bought an ST with a monochrome monitor which cost me $799.99 (add about $200 more to my joke) because as much as I would have loved an Amiga - I wasn't working and need an affordable computer for college. It got me through 3 out of 4 years of collage.

[@RetroDawn]

What happened that 4th year?

[@Storm_.]

I'm pretty sure that there was an Atari STE version of lemmings with music as good as the Amiga. I think that using the 'lesser' version is a little unfair :/

[@GuruMediator]

+mzry Alas no, there doesn't appear to be an Atari STE specific version that supports sampled music.

[@Storm_.]

Oh =( such a shame

[@Foebane72]

The Atari STE had an extra PCM sound chip that could play samples well, but it was still inferior to the Amiga sound chip xD xD xD

[@ZxSpectrumplus]

The ST version is worse than the PC version. Adlib music is better than ancient 3 channel AY sound of ST.

[@johneymute]

That atari st version takes ages to load and the music sounds more like a dizzy/falsh keyboard or some one uses a mattel cup with water inside and use a stick to hit that cup with it and shaking it,it just sounds ear raping haha lol,but other then that the graphics are just still good.

[@AmigaRulez_parallax]

Atari suck

[@mavlok]

I'm pretty sure the ST version also had those horrid black borders.

[@madcat789]

That Atari sounds like bloody ass.

[@pauljones8135]

amiga version better sound and music

[@mikejohnson699]

Almost no difference

[@MagikGimp]

And to everyone saying that the music on the Amiga is better- ha! HA I SAY!

[@jedw]

SEGA Megadrive version murders both these. Dare I say..

[@Wagoo]

Joypad? Ouch

[@jedw]

fair point, but it was a good version otherwise.

[@maceatari4127]

St version is superior in every way

[@TheBorrelnoten]

ofcourse:)

[@PissGOOGEL]

J van Schoot Yes, the amiga version keeps playing its noisy sound samples just because "it can", the ST version plays clean noise free chip sounds because "it must".

[@MEGAMIGA]

***** In every way? They are the same except for the sound part, which is superior on the Amiga.

[@sluggotg]

+MACE Atari Ahh Yes.... the Atari's 16 colors out of 512 beats the Amiga's 32 out of 4096, (or 64 in EHB mode out of 4096), every time. And of course the Atari's lack of Hardware acceleration beats the Amiga's built in Hardware Video Acceleration. But... Lets not forget the Atari's mighty One channel mono sound compared to the Amiga's 4 channel 8 bit sound for its Stereo Outputs! Yep That 16 colors, mono sound, jerky animation, single mouse support, (that is a fraction of the data needed to support the full featured Amiga version), does in fact take less time to load. So therefore we should all Worship at the Altar of ST. (Better sound, Animation, graphics and Gameplay Clearly do not make for a better gaming experience!)SluggoLoad "*",8,1

[@maceatari4127]

+sluggotg You went from a comment about the two versions of Lemmings to a comment on the Amiga and the ST as a whole there.... not sure you noticed that. But of course, yes. On both points, just look at how many upvotes my comment, and the supporting replies got compared to yours. This proves that the ST is superior.

[@insoft_uk]

The Atari STE had better sound but I still like the ST sound, just more cheerful, Amiga sound sounded dull and too modern for the games of the late 80s to early 90s

[@leeball4585]

graphics - amiga wins hands down. Sound - amiga always had that crackly sampled shite I hated...ST may be more basic but at least pure with those things, hence its extensive use by pros in the media biz.

[@dumiclumic4423]

Atari ST win.

[@MrSbfan2000]

Rofl

[@VeeeeryyyFaaaastSlooooth]

Actually I think the MOD soundtrack on amiga sounds like crap in this game. Dull, lifeless, with cheap samples. The St`s chip-tune cheerfulness matches the tunes and game better IMO.

[@MagikGimp]

One of the few games that's better on the ST. Except for the intro of course.

[@onlineamiga]

MagikGimp And the music, and the lack of 2 player mouse support, and the smoother side scrolling..... I think Amiga has this one mate.

[@MagikGimp]

onlineamiga Yes yes fanboy. If anyone was actually serious about playing Lemmings these days they'd never choose either version; they'd play it on PC. The rivalry is centuries old and neither side ever really won, let it die. ...But the music for this one on Amiga really is shit in comparison. _runs away_

[@RetroDawn]

@@MagikGimp Why on PC? It has nothing over the Amiga version, and the music is worse (I'll take ST YM over Adlib/SB OPL anyday) and you couldn't play 2 player with 2 mice.

[@MagikGimp]

@@RetroDawn Haha, 4 years ago. I'm always tempted to reply to ancient comments myself. ;) I think I was trying to say that if you went looking for the game today online you'd probably only have the PC version offered to you on GoG or something. I've never even played the DOS version. I think I must have been on a nostalgia trip when I wrote those comments. I think the ST version is better because the graphics are more vivid (both are 16 colours) and the music on the Amiga is shite IMHO. Of course the scrolling is worse and you can't have two mice. But then I haven't played the game in centuries either, on any platform! What we need is a remake with the ST music, nice graphics, good scrolling, "oh no!" sound effects and co-op support online. Maybe there is one?

[@mikejohnson699]

Almost no difference