Amsoil Saber at 40:1 New Piston and Heartbreaking Teardown.

[@kenogden7221]

Thanks for the testing videos. Now that you have a newly scored piston, do you think it would be possible to run the Opti 2 oil at 40 or 45 to one to see how it compares to the other oils?

[@richardflagg3084]

Nope. Don't take that the wrong way, but it didn't burn that clean at 100:1 and that's a deal breaker for me. Opti2 actually recommends not mixing mixing it at 50:1 or 32:1. There's a picture on their website that has a 🚫over a couple of gas cans with those ratios. There's a lot of oils I have tested that outperform Opti2 and there are folks in the oil industry that have chimed in that agree.

[@Okinawa1914]

​@@richardflagg3084Motul 710 2t ok oil in cheinsaw ?

[@daniellang6112]

Synthetic during break in?

[@Okinawa1914]

​@@richardflagg3084 Tested Motul 710 oil ?

[@justinblasovski2105]

The white coating on the piston is ceramic. That’s why its grippy and stains easy. It’s porous. Thanks for all the test vids Rich!

[@justinblasovski2105]

Maybe since it’s only on the intake where you trimmed the piston, it’s possible you disturbed the coating and it released just enough micro fines to rub on that side? Only thing that makes sense to me. The rest of it looks great!🤷🏻‍♂️

[@alanmeyers3957]

@@justinblasovski2105 It's definately residual fines.

[@AleksjiViktor]

VELIKI POZDRAV GOSPODINE IZ SRBIJE...GLEDAM SVAKI VAS VIDEO I IMAM VELIKU ZAMERKU JEDNU...MOZDA STE VELIKI MAJSTOR I POFESIONALAC ALI NIJEDNA MASINA-MOTOR NE VOLI KAD GA UPALITE-STARTUETE I ODMA HLADAN MOTOR PUN GAS NA MAXIMUM.. ZATO VAM JE TAKO NOVI KLIP DOBIO OGREBOTINE...

[@Bada_Bing13]

Idling for a minute or two before running it wide open solves that problem of the of those pesky cold seizures and piston slapping the cylinder wall 👍🏻

[@afleetcommand]

Looks like a classic cold seize. Always wonder about the magnesium as a piston material because of it's thermal characterizes vs. a good aluminum A sacrifice to the gods of "weight" I'm afraid. Might need a more sophisticated break in strategy.

[@chuckgladfelter]

I use Saber too. Started using it in 1998 in my Stihl 021, Stihl weedwhacker and blower. Also use it in my Lawn-Boy F-Series from 1996. Good oil.

[@JRPestsAndTrees]

This stuff is just way too good, great content, thank you!

[@Super-Dave-Outdoors]

Had no idea I broke in saws the same way you do. Good fuel and oil, short run for tuning and make sure it isnt trying to eat itself, go use it.

[@crhonda6425]

Here’s a tip on installing seals. Apply a small dab of grease 180° apart on the seal. The spring won’t go anywhere.

[@woodstacker5241]

I feel your pain! I’d run it until it doesn’t run anymore. It was a beautiful build.

[@BillsGarageWorks]

My uncles dirt bike engine guy helped me rebuild my ski doo formula 3 snowmobile. I asked him how I should break it in. He said ride it around for a bit, go wide open check the plugs and if the jetting was good ride it like you stole it.

[@VintageEngineRepairs]

Very common to see piston polish, especially on modern saws where they just aren’t made as consistently as the older saws where there were much higher standards - the 500i pistons are terrible from the factory. 661 cylinders and pistons too. My guess is that because the piston is coated, it’s far more obvious and shows what appears to be scuffing, but is actually just polish on a normal ally piston. Nothing you’ve done wrong here. It’s a combination of tolerances, modern manufacturer and a piston bedding in.

[@guerrillaradio9953]

Yessir, that is a ceramic coated piston. He did everything right. From cars down to power equipment, it's very common these days. It can look bad to those of us used to the older ways engine parts are supposed to look when things are right versus you screwed something up or got a bad part, but I'd agree, and keep letting her rip.

[@wayneanderson991]

Hi Richard, It looks like the Stihl cylinder is in need of replacement for some reason. You could give the cylinder a couple strokes with a ball hone if their is enough coating on the cylinder walls to see if it could be salvaged just for giggles. I have saved a few with a ball hone. I do like the oil testing you do. I have converted over to Honda HP2 now. I was using Echo Red Armor(with great success) until I saw your testing of the HP2. I did my own testing and love the way the HP2 works in my saws. I'm running HP2 at 32:1 and see no carbon build up, in fact the HP2 started to clean carbon off of a couple of saws piston crowns.

[@richardflagg3084]

Nice!!! Glad to hear some feed back on some longer term results than my "one tank" approach. It's time for a new cylinder and we'll see where it goes.

[@lesstech74]

Hey Richard! Sorry about the saw but for whatever its worth I really enjoy your testing with coffee first thing in the morn. My buddy always told me that shit'L buff out!

[@ericglaude4953]

Hi Richard, always appreciate the work you do and information you provide to us. Damn, I feel almost as bad as you do after looking at that top end and piston skirt. I’ve got an old 034AV that has been beat up, put up and resurrected a few times and it does not look that scuffed. Yes, you know that I run Motul 800 2T in my saws, but I don’t think it’s the oil this time. Don’t get me wrong, I like the saber too at 40:1, but there is just something about that Motul smell. LOL. I’ve got a thought, and it’s not worth much as you know, but when you modified the piston itself you change the vibration dynamics of the system now and that whisker or two of weight reduction may be pushing you in a vibration characteristic that it was not designed to be in and that might be causing some additional movement of the piston on the cylinder wall. Since the saw is getting upwards of 14k in rpms. couple that with the customary M-Tronic unloaded 4-strokin and that might be just enough to be riding on a natural vibration peak mode of the crank making the amplitude of the vibrational movement of the piston worse. The Stihl engineers would have done the vibrational spectrum to see where the high points are and designed the components to stay well away from these peaks. It likely does not affect the system if you modify the cylinder port since that is not in motion like the piston, crank shaft and bearings. Other guys modify the hell out of the piston too, but maybe they just get lucky too. I think that saw will be fine with a polish and run your fancy Honda oil or Motul and see if the results are the same. Really enjoy your channel. 🤠

[@richardflagg3084]

There's something up with the cylinder for sure. Thanks for the info on the Motul!

[@peteschiavoni]

Bummer about the piston. The Sabre was phenomenal. I’ve never tried it but I can see how great it worked

[@grannsnewadventures8450]

Hey, this is a good discussion. After watching your videos on the testing of oil, I ordered up some saber. I’m planning to run at 45 to 1. Thanks for the recommendation on the eBay seller.

[@mrxlh]

Port chamfers look fine, ceramic coating on the piston looks like it gave up. Large bore stationary engine tin coated pistons started doing this in the early 90’s. The tin process/finishing was the culprit. We started rubbing a flat file around the circumference of the pistons on the new skirts. I might suggest using a stone on the next piston. As soon as you showed the coating roughness, it was like a flashback.

[@bradpotter6401]

I'd like to see some oil tests and results on the Stihl 4 Mix engines that they use on leaf blowers and string trimmers. I'm thinking of running mine on Amsoil at 40:1.

[@thetwostrokerebuilder]

I've took a lot of mx bike engines apart over the years and never been impressed with scamsoil 😀 but it works for some. I've use little red barn pistons in those 400s and work fine for tree companies

[@richardflagg3084]

Everyone loves Dominator, but it's a JASO FC oil, and in my experience it doesn't burn near as clean as Saber in small engines. That being said, I haven't tried Interceptor.

[@GregEverett-o3l]

@@richardflagg3084give interceptor a try in oil testing i’m running it have been for 3 years at 32:1 and it’s been great minimal to no carbon not much exhaust smoke at all n it pools oil in the crank case in my 272 n ms440

[@advanced8526]

Man i do have to say you know ive have a cheap ebay big bore kit with an added pop up piston and cabar solid rings in my ms660 i run the royal purple hp2 oil at 40:1 with 93 shell non ethanol fuel (sometimes mixed with some 112 leaded racing gas) and i have had some days out here on the farm and in other small situations where i have ran that thing all day long man and ran the literal piss out of it and it does great man. I also put a 64 jet in the carb with a velocity stack setup. Have the aussy oiler that turns all the way up for the bar. Id like to port the cylinder its 1 of them cheap nikasil or whatever cylinders tho but yeah. Ive had it for about 13 ish years like that so far. Does great! I also gutted the muffler baffles and made the exhaust hole about a penny size so it could breathe. Thanks for your vids!

[@Thoreau-e4l]

Get yourself some jb borecleaner, and a few gun cleaning mops,not paper swabs,but thicker mops.attache rod to cordless drill,be sure to remove any residue. It's basically a jewelers polish, will slick a gun bore right up,without being too aggressive.

[@matthewbutcher203]

I've been breaking in saws by running a tank full at fast idle for years some have given me grief that ya have to run em wide open and do heat cycles ect but if 4k rpm for 15-25 min won't break in the rings I guess they won't even get broken in...

[@dennisyoung4631]

Thanks for the suggested practice re break-in. Have a 43cc Zenoah engine which is for an emergency DC generator.

[@deandudley8649]

To my understanding those pistons have a ceramic coating on them. Correct me if wrong. I think that grit is residue from the ceramic.

[@Leave_Nothing_Stock]

3:16 did the same thing with a 592 a few weeks ago. Had the airbox totally back together when i found the brass ring thats supposed to go in the carb boot🤦‍♂️

[@richardflagg3084]

I hate to say it but It's not the first time I've done something like this.....

[@Leave_Nothing_Stock]

@richardflagg3084 that just mean it isn't your first time taking a saw apart!

[@richardflagg3084]

@@Leave_Nothing_Stock 🤣🤣

[@prevost8686]

Been using Saber for over a decade in all my two stroke equipment. Two saws, three trimmers, a backpack and handheld blowers. On non ethanol fuel and 80:1 mix I’ve had zero problems. The trimmers and blowers were built in 03 and have been used weekly for keeping up two school properties. I don’t know anything about high performance 2-stroke engines but Saber has been great for my stock equipment.

[@FishFind3000]

I’ve been using it for 3 years now and it hasn’t ruined anything yet. I’ve put several gallons of fuel through my machines at 50:1.

[@laurapalmerTDGE]

​@@FishFind3000 - Use the Saber with the grey jugs / Stihl alkylate fuel. The cleanest and sweetest fuel combo you can get!

[@leonardryan8723]

Great video Richard Tks million for your time . 😊

[@doglegjake6788]

Thanks for sharing a great video

[@thomasfrost6993]

I'm wondering if the scoring is because you threw the piston out of balance by grinding some off of one side making it tend to slap against the cylinder.

[@alanmeyers3957]

No

[@Chucky-b7v]

Great job, Richard 👍🏼

[@MC-ft8zv]

Okay, starting at 5:00, is it the timing causing the saw to sound like it has a "miss" while running at full throttle? My Makita EA5600 does the same, stock apart from muffler mod. Tried tuning it, but it still does it until it's really hot. Love to know what the cause is, and If it's timing then Makita/Dolmar must hot rod them a bit in the factory. Cheers!

[@AA-tb4ff]

that damage is right where you opened up the notch out of the piston. any chance that light piston work you did didnt have enough clearance?

[@keystonecountryboy]

Ever think it was from you hawging on the the skirt of the piston? Because the other side don't look like that...

[@ErickCook89]

My thoughts exactly!

[@pgmurray76]

Definitely ain't a good part of the piston to have a fine burr or microscopically jagged edge.

[@CraigArndt]

I bought a 25" Stihl bar and chain from JD-mml, agree he is a good ebayer seller.

[@richardflagg3084]

In a decline of Fleabay he still does it right.

[@AndrewBlumenkemper]

What ratio would you recommend for using Amsoil Sabor in a STIHL br 600? I'm thinking 50/1 instead of 100/1 like they claim you can mix it at. I would also be using it in my STIHL handheld and commercial husky weed eater.

[@StuInTheSticks]

Ouch that hurt's when you see that in your own saw, she hasn't been right since that last round of oil test's. Maybe it's time to take a break on being the oil test guy, if people by now haven't figured out that you should run a high grade oil they never will. I know these test's helped build your channel and many of us love watching to see what will happen, by the way thank you for taking the time to do these test's but at some point... well it takes a toll on the pocket book. I watch your channel for a lot of other great content you put out not just the oil test's anyways take care.

[@richardflagg3084]

It's a process. Honestly, I didn't see that one coming. I do like doing these teardowns in real time. I think that it's a part of the video series being popular. One of these days It will make enough to cover some really fun stuff I'd like to do. In the grand scheme of things this is still a small budget repair. I get 1099'd for the income off of the videos. It's good for a write off......for now.

[@StuInTheSticks]

@@richardflagg3084 People always like seeing if these tests are a success or a big failure the failure part being probably the biggest draw, we all like a good train wreck lol! Important thing is if your having fun doing it that's what matter's otherwise KZbin isn't so great if you feel you have to do it for someone else or the ratings.

[@mistersniffer6838]

@@StuInTheSticks - Thats what youtubers are "supposed" to be doing it for, or, I would rather not watch them!

[@StuInTheSticks]

​@@mistersniffer6838 So what your saying is even though Richard has a lot of other great small engine repair content besides these oil test failure videos you'd rather not watch his channel? Jeez people really do only like total carnage trainwreck type videos I guess.

[@mistersniffer6838]

@@StuInTheSticks - I want to be around people that have a love of life and want to explore and share. if he is only doing it because he is out to make money, or its a burden, I will just go to the oil company pages, read the TDS data sheets and draw my own conclusions, thus bypassing the channel as it has no value to me. My time is important, I want to spend it doing what "I" like.

[@mikeeiben3430]

Saber at 40:1 probably lubricates like regular oil at 20:1 since the viscosity is double.

[@kenogden7221]

Thanks for the explanation!! Keep up great videos!!

[@bmoreglass7258]

thanks for sharing all the info. switched to honda hp2 40:1 and really like it. saved one of my 661c"s the other day wile milling. i had an intake boot tear and lean out, luckily with the hp2 it had a great oil film and didnt score a piston and cylinder.

[@Shybaki]

Goodmorning Richard, will be a my big pleasure to send you some oil that here in Italy they say it's the best, it's Bardahl, i tryied to write an email to you long time ago but didn't get an answer. Please let me know. Keep up the great work and content you make. Best regards Giovanni

[@richardflagg3084]

Thank you Giovanni. I don't use email often, so my apologies. I believe Bardahl is available here in the US. I'll try to find some. Thank you for the offer.

[@Shybaki]

@@richardflagg3084 My pleasure Richard, if you are not able to find they're 2t, let me know and i'll provvide. 😊

[@travisnichols5680]

Good Morning Richard how are ya?? Hey so are you ditching the Schaeffers oil now just wondering if you found something out about their oil???

[@Curtis-zi3qg]

How do you know you have all the fuel screws set properly before all these oil tests

[@Nsaishie]

The 400c is an M-Tronic saw, so it has a computer controlled carburetor which does all the fuel mixing automatically. No fuel screws to speak of on that model.

[@12valve-90]

I've had mixed luck with saber in my 2 stroke lawn equipment. my Shindaiwa t262 does not like it. No matter what ratio I run it at it cokes the piston up bad and leaves hard deposits in the exhaust port even after tuning the carb. In Husky and Sthil trimmers the piston stays decently clean but still get those hard deposits in the ports. Grabbed a gallon of Red armor last winter online for $55 and been running it this season and it has cleaned the piston back up and is a nice red film every time I check around 44:1 and ports look cleaner. Smells better to me as well, Saber smells like burning plastic at times in my stuff

[@REDLINERUNNER]

I heard about drink can tin to install the crank seals. Can you try that?

[@danstevens2204]

Do you think possibly taking material off the piston to lower the intake port somehow caused more material to come away once the coating had been removed?

[@faithfulfarmadventures]

Have you tested the Royal Purple synthetic 2 stroke oil?

[@karm00n29]

no sir

[@christianh5839]

Should I use 50:1 or 40:1 in my new MS 261 C-M?

[@Nsaishie]

50:1 with Amsoil saber or Echo Red Armor. Avoid Stihl oil if you can. If do have to use Stihl oil (because of no other choice or you already bought some) then mix the Stihl oil at 40:1.

[@masterproperties8612]

Question… Amsoil say mix at 100:1 ratio… you talking 40 or 50:1 can help us understand?

[@nerdsunscripted624]

100:1 is what the oil is designed to “burn” at. However, since 2 stroke chainsaws have a lot of parts that require oil to lubricate in the bottom end, needing the oil in the fuel to lubricate them, running a higher ratio of oil helps lubricate those parts better. You actually gain a bit of power by doing this too as the thicker film of oil in the cylinder makes a better seal around the piston. I’ve got an old stihl chainsaw that literally won’t start with 50:1, but will start and run fine (not great) on 32:1, because the thicker oil makes up for the scratched cylinder. Too much oil causes a lean condition where there’s too much oil but not enough fuel to run. So there are limits to how much you can use. Too much also lowers the octane of the fuel so you can run into predetonation issues on super high ratios as well (like 16:1) I need to rebuild that saw but I don’t have the money right now so it’s sitting while I use a different saw, but it’s just to prove a point about the compression changing with different mix ratios. He’s running the amsoil at 40:1 or 50:1 because in a different video he found that such ratios work just fine in the saw without causing any issues, and do better at keeping the bottom end (crankshaft and such) lubricated and protected.

[@Bobthebuilder.69]

I have 2 brand new stihls to break in, i have been debating on using red armor or saber. Which one should i go with and run from now on? I feel like saber might be a tiny bit better..

[@neonjoe6180]

Best oil for a stihl is the stihl full synthetic at 50:1.All stihl oils turn the rod and crank a straw gold color. That how a mechanic knows you haven't been using stihl oil and your warranty is void !!

[@batmantiss]

Silly question....that magnesium isnt supposed to wear away as part of break in? Like a moly-coated bullet?

[@tedneitzel]

Damn i think its time for a top end! Cant wait to see it run soon!

[@yenerm114]

I’ve been running vp /50:1 and have had really good results, but next tank ima try the H1R , after seeing ur test , n that’s what I used to run in my dirt bike for years n years , so ima run it for myself n see how it does

[@harryharry3193]

he did a vid on vp--and make sure you check your volume if using small bottles!!!

[@mikecubes1642]

thats what you get for running a thin mix for break in. would you run 0W-8 in a fresh rebuilt car engine? then run the pis out of it like you did with the saw? i have an old 041 farm boss and the manual for it and it says to mix your gas with extra oil for several tanks during the break in time and not to run it too hard, I think it said use 20:1 for break in and 32:1 for regular use after so many hours. I have also read other manuals that say to run engines easy during the first few hours of use so they break in properly. I have always mixed my gas at 20:1 for all my saws and never had any engine go bad and I have cut lots and lots of wood over the past 25 years with those saws. the govt tells them to use a 50:1 mix so there is less smoke, they dont care if your saw burns up. I have used all brands of 2 stroke oil and even used 40 weight diesel oil mixed at 20:1 when I was out of 2 stroke oil and never had a problem. rebuild it and break it in right with 20:1 mix then show us if its scratched up

[@christopherlehman4045]

Is no break in ratio or procedure on new saws, mix fresh gas at 50:1 start saw warm up a little and go cut normally. I use 40:1 but still heat cycles and cutting at part throttle ect aren’t necessary and actually can be bad. Saws are designed to be run wide open when cutting and need the rpm for cooling air movement off the flywheel.

[@mikecubes1642]

@@christopherlehman4045 no break in time and very thin mix, thats why you are rebuilding it. I have an old 036 that gets used a lot and has cut tons of firewood over the past 20 years with a 20:1 mix and it still has great compression and only needed a new carb s few years ago. the company tells you to use a thin mix so they burn out faster and the govt wants less smoke. they want you to buy a new saw every 2 years

[@petershea3131]

So it sounded poppy in the cut and you backed off the timing a bit. Is that on your flywheel timing advance? I have a 661 that acts like that a bit but I never advanced the timing. Any ideas?

[@christopherlehman4045]

If yours is a 661c with mtronic it’s probably just the mtronic running to the fat point and backing off a little in a cut for various loads. All the mtronic saws seem to do this to an extent and I’ve owned and worked on several. I personally wouldn’t worry about it and just use it.

[@joefykes2074]

Aw man, that sucks, hang in there, I guess your cylinder might have some run out.

[@4bearsi678]

Try Schaeffer's 706 Supreme 7000 Synthetic and then do a tear down! It will leave a 2 stroke engine the way it should be with a light film of oil from top to bottom end.

[@richardflagg3084]

I have a teardown video for Schaeffers. It's in the video "why anything is better than ultra"

[@j.h.3269]

I know this is 2 months old video , but have you tested the amsoil interceptor in any of your passes videos ? I just got a good deal on a few gallons of it . Going to run 40:1 in all my chainsaws.

[@richardflagg3084]

Not yet

[@Aaron_A_Lynch]

Meteor needs to make a normal 400 piston

[@johnm8891]

Evidently Stihl is ditching the magnesiium piston in their new version of the 400. No idea if it would swap into the old version though.

[@richardflagg3084]

@@johnm8891 I'll reach out to my regional Rep and see if he can share some info on the subject. If he has anything, I'll post a video.

[@christopherlehman4045]

No it won’t fit, the 400.1 is a smaller displacement saw only 63cc vs 66.7. It’s still supposed to be based off the original 400 but has many updates to the saw. It won’t be in the states for awhile probably and did go back to aluminum piston and has a lightweight rotating assembly for fast acceleration.

[@dennisyoung4631]

Perhaps a *forged* piston of 4032 aluminum? Machined carefully *all over?*

[@davidgoliath982]

once these cylinders have any scoring at all it will always be that way. u can doll them up, but once u run them all them lines will be visible again. need to start over with a new cylinder.

[@christopherlehman4045]

Lots of people have no issues saving cylinders, long as you get all the transfer off and plaiting is intact it I’ll be fine. It’s possible this just happens to be a bad cylinder in general maybe slightly out of round ect. Could also be on the small side of tolerance and the piston on the large side. Stihl used to letter mark compatible cylinders and pistons with letters by final dimensions. I do believe they got rid of this partly because of new alloys that move less and closer tolerances.

[@johnmurray7682]

So it goes like this: before you strip it you tell us that Saber is amazing. Then you say whatever you find when you strip it won't be the fault of Saber. When you strip it you find scuffing on the thrust side of both the piston and bore and you say this is bad but it definitely isn't Saber's fault. You imply a possible clearance issue but this clearly isn't the case - there's no scuffing at all on the non-thrust skirt. But it's got nothing to do with Saber oil, no-siree. I've got hundreds of dyno hours running two stroke race bikes and hold land speed records. I run castor (Shell M) with methanol and a good FB mineral oil with gas engines, preferably one without polyisobutylene. I will not run modern esters with any high hp engine - they're unbelievably clean but beyond a certain power level they will scuff. Clean and smoke-free for sure, but that's all.

[@Mike_Mike_0]

Rich nice video😊😊😊 At the end of the day, they are just machines 😅😅😅

[@nheng6913]

Can you get your hands on a 3", 0.0001 resolution micrometer and make numerous spot measurements to determine the out of roundness of the piston. Inside measurements are trickier but should probably be done. The mfgr probably has air gauges or the like to quickly test the parts.

[@nheng6913]

I know the properties of ceramics, nikasil, etc. but these coatings still make me nervous. You have almost hard as diamond materials and ANY residue whatsoever is going to make a powerful lapping or scoring media (if the particles are big enough). I would submit that piston and cylinder to the respective manufacturers and ask for detailed analysis of the failure modes.

[@tomasbutenas9638]

Great info as always. Maybe someday you'll come across a can of 710😄. Thank you

[@u.e.u.e.]

12:45 What is the "dot" or whole down right from the sparkplug for? 🤔🤷‍♂️

[@johnm8891]

What the hell is going on there? My 400 seems to run just fine but I wonder if I should take a look to see if my piston looks like that.

[@richardflagg3084]

This started as two blown up saws that made one. No worries for you. Tim aka cotontop3 here on KZbin has 3 or 4 and they are his favorite saws. I probably shouldn't have run the last oil at 100:1 for a test video. There's a little context that may help. I love the saw FWIW

[@jordansalmon8913]

Ive got a bottle of redline 2 cycle racing oil... would that be worth using in my chainsaw and weedeater, hedge clippers, and blower? I plan to buy the honda hp2 next, or should i just go straight for the hp2?

[@Nsaishie]

Stick to the Red Line oil. It's superior to the Honda oil. I avoid dirt bike oils in power equipment.

[@harryharry3193]

can you discuss 2 stroke Marine oil--and or TEST IT. 20 bux a gal is a big difference....but ruining a engine aint worth it.......

[@julianlaustsen1991]

do u know why people say u can't do base gasket delete on 500i?

[@Mastr-Tech]

I can’t believe how picky people are about the type of oil that is being used. If the oil is rated they will all prevent wear the same. What’s more important is how the premix last when it’s stored for a couple months. If the carb diaphragms get stiff or too soft that’s when real problems start happening. Some oils will make diaphragms stiff when stored. Others like red armor will keep them in good shape after sitting for years.

[@scottwilson4396]

Believing an oil reseller label is like trusting a politician in my mind . If im spending money id like it to buy the highest quality available for the given budget

[@noan2134]

i think thats the job of the fuel stabilizer , if the oil has fuel estabilizer in it , it will keep the carburator gum free because it keep the fuel fresh

[@CLY0556]

44:1 saber for years now 💪🏼

[@gunterbecker8528]

Richard, do u think a stihl 400 can handle a 25' bar what oiling concerns.?

[@Sethhaun78]

Dremel out the oiler holes on bar..and tap tge oiler with a punch gently to allow it to open all the way..any saw over 50cc should have zero issues running 25 inch light bar. There not 25 have no idea why they call them 25 inch bars ..like marketing scam..ñ

[@richardflagg3084]

No problem with a 25" bar.

[@fullthrottletimber8286]

​@Sethhaun78 there is no "punch pin" on the 400.

[@Sethhaun78]

@@fullthrottletimber8286 on the bottom of the saw..there should be a oiler like rest of stihl saws..and my 462 500i 661 all have them and needed to be tapped down it blocks you from turning up the oiler past factory settings....there's tons of video on this ...I dint have 400c only saw of stihl I dint have but all others have it. So the 400 has a oiler correct ..it has to be tapped with a punch or nail punch to open all the way but be gentle so not to break oiler

[@christopherlehman4045]

There is no roll pin on the 362 or 400 oiler, you can order a 461 oiler to install or modify the pump ramp. Factory oiler oils the 25” fine and opening the oil hole doesn’t really work because an oil pump only pumps so much oil per stroke and the hole in the bar is large enough to accept this amount.

[@BTPUSC]

What exactly happened here?

[@BrianCundiff-u3b]

How much to port a 400c

[@Super-Dave-Outdoors]

I would want to know wtf is going on with that cylinder. Or just blast it with emery cloth on a mandrel, soda blast the piston and see if the wear marks come back.

[@lorriebuxton2041]

Did you check piston clearance looks like too tight too much advance in a two stroke is a death sentence

[@GregariousAntithesis]

That looks like piston slap

[@jonathanhensley8685]

Would you pick Amsoil saber over echo red armor at 40:1 I have never ran Amsoil but after watching your videos, I am seriously considering it. Thanks

[@richardflagg3084]

Can't go wrong with either. Saber has a little more viscosity and burns just as clean.

[@Trump985]

I always double the oil for the break in

[@bumpkinrocks]

Gutted for you🙉 I'd never have expected that that's for sure you're meticulous.

[@Drillmechanic]

Wrong decision to increase the intake phase, because after such a modification you have a less homogeneous air-fuel mixture!!!

[@weatherwatcher39]

So are you blaming the Amsoil Saber oil for this?

[@supersportimpalass]

No

[@garyalford9394]

Been sing Saber for 20 years 50:1 in all my 2cykl's with never a problem.

[@weatherwatcher39]

@@garyalford9394 Thanks...seen many videos on KZbin running 80:1 for many years with no issues.

[@garyalford9394]

@@weatherwatcher39 Took care of Co. Parks small equip. for over 20 yrs with no problems.

[@weatherwatcher39]

@@garyalford9394Just received a shipment of this today and will be trying it for the first time when I go to mix my can again.

[@garengtutorial8923]

Oke mantap bos

[@u.e.u.e.]

About the scuffing: who knows if the piston AND the bore are perfectly round? 🤷‍♂️

[@Masonliveslife7]

Was the piston matched to the cylinder? A, B, C etc.

[@richardflagg3084]

Only one piston listed for the saw. I have the Stihl parts look up loaded on my laptop.

[@christopherlehman4045]

Stihl hasn’t done the tolerance groups in a long time, just one cylinder and one piston part number now

[@Okinawa1914]

Motul 710 2t ????????🤔🤔

[@4bearsi678]

There’s several oils that are better than saber or Honda hp2 lol .😂 Those are mediocre at best. Try Schaeffer's 706 Supreme 7000 Synthetic and then do a tear down! It will leave a 2 stroke engine the way it should be with a light film of oil from top to bottom end. Same with Motul 800, Maxima K2, Klotz BeNol, Triax power sport 2t, to name a few

[@richardflagg3084]

Ran it for years. Schaeffers very good oil.

[@harryerhart5978]

Amsoil 3.5 bottles and echo 2.6 bottles are short in filling l mix the two together and they measure 5.75 oz should be 6.1 oz😮

[@richardflagg3084]

I made a video on some VP Racing two stroke oil and they were just shy. A subscriber chimed in (who's in the business) and said the "filling process" has an industry standard that allows a slight variance plus or minus that's acceptable as an industry standard. It's based on a set percentage regardless of size of the container.

[@supersportimpalass]

@@richardflagg3084seems they are always “short” and not over which seems like a too common coincidence imho

[@elespe8167]

@@richardflagg3084 Were there any cases where they poured more?

[@harryharry3193]

@@elespe8167 hahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[@larrywarner9314]

All my chainsaws get 32:1 mix

[@justinweaver8107]

Mine2

[@dennisyoung4631]

Ran 32 to 1 in the Ryobi many years ago. Will run a trifle more oil in the Zenoah.

[@dennisyoung4631]

Have been annoyed at the seemingly over-enthusiastic nature of *some* Amsoil proponents, but have wondered if the stuff is decent.

[@richardflagg3084]

In small engines, it really is one of the best options out there. The tree company I work for has used it almost a decade. I've seen the long term (commercial use) results and can say the above with conviction.

[@Nsaishie]

Amsoil has proven itself. Homelite XL-98 Demo saws still running to this day at my construction company that have had Amsoil Saber run in them for 25+ years.

[@jimssawsnstuff8903]

Tough break man.

[@aaronpowell4885]

Man... that's even painful for me to see.

[@richardflagg3084]

Yup

[@larrywarner9314]

I wouldn't use amsoil if you gave me 2500 gallons of it , that shit cost me two brand new snowmobile engine failures , and when I took them to the dealership they took them apart they try blaming me, when the head engineer looked into it it was the oil, they took that oil and tested it on two others snowmobiles and they had engine failures as well so il stick to my klotz

[@johnm8891]

Novice Lumberjack says he had egged out holes for the butterfly pins which were letting air in. I guess overtightened carb bolts can also cause an air leak as well. His saw ran like chit though.

[@richardflagg3084]

I'm familiar with Boedy's saw. Glad he got it sorted.

[@ianmoone2359]

I know that editing sometimes creates “false impressions” so take this with a grain of salt. When you were ready to use the saw to cut, it appeared you started it cold and just full rev cut with it at WOT from stone motherless cold. Maybe you had warmed it up before hand and it was already warm, but it didn’t look that way to me. I’ve read somewhere that cold start, full on WOT into a heavy cut is the worst possible thing for a 2 stroke saw. Heat shock or something they call it. Apparently that’s not a new cylinder? (First time watching any of your videos), you said you polished out the cylinder with scotchbrite? Shouldn’t a cylinder have cross hatching from the cylinder hone? Perhaps it’s a combination of polishing the cylinder with scotch brite & heat shock starting it - that’s causing your piston scuffing? Watching you assemble the piston into the cylinder, I could see some kind of debris (looked like an oil soaked wood chip) between the two top rings. Could that be what caused the scoring? Could it have migrated around and caused that wide scoring pattern? Occasionally you do get a dud saw straight from the factory. We have bought a LOT of Stihl saws starting back in 1982 & using them commercially in our logging & milling business over the last 40 odd years starting with my very first new saw a Stihl 034 AV. This year we got a dud 661C brand new that cut two rings of firewood off a hardwood log, before it jammed open throttle, wouldn’t shut off when throttle trigger was released, and even when the kill switch was shut off. Had to nose plunge it into the log to stall it out to stop it. Luckily my lads missus was filming the new saw start up, for his Instagram channel - so he could show Stihl what happened. They repaired it, new piston, rings & crank seal, sent it back. Filmed it again, this time it cut 4 rings before doing the exact same issue. Sent the video - they took the saw back & replaced it with new one, which has operated flawlessly since. It’s the first ever “warranty claim” with any Stihl saw in over 40 years. Stihl were good about it, BUT without his social media channel & video evidence of the two repeat malfunctions, would our treatment have been any different? 🤷‍♂️ Out of respect the two videos of the incident were only shared with Stihl & haven’t appeared online anywhere. What the “issue” was that caused it, we never heard. But it shows that occasionally a lemon saw comes off the assembly line even with Stihl.

[@todd8155]

Got to say, watching this looks like it could be a cold seize, revving to quickly with inadequate warmup so that piston has expanded and cylinder has not. Also, wondering about the radical WOT cutting instead of a break in procedure. If this was just a lapse of showing it on the video then you haven't done anyone any favors. Not impressed...

[@jackfrosty79ify]

Lil hard on break in wow .

[@jimksa67]

cool Nice cutter! Wheres your ear protection Bro?

[@kbittorf335]

I don‘t know if it‘s my browser but it appears some of the commentary has mysteriously disappeared...

[@richardflagg3084]

I've never deleted a comment in the 3+ years of this channel. Big brother does tho....

[@kbittorf335]

@@richardflagg3084IC. I went back to the German KZbin channel where I first learned of this, and that particular commentary has disappeared as well.

[@daniellang6112]

Did I hear "breaking it in on Sabre?" Synthetic? Really?

[@christopherlehman4045]

Lots of saw and other 2 cycles broken in on synthetic oil now. Husky and Stihl ultra are both full synthetic and get sold with new equipment to get an extended warranty. Yes I know Stihl ultra is a very disliked product overall though I do know some tree guys that have ran it in their saws with no major issues. Internals looked fine and i know because I tore them down for rebuilds. I personally like orange bottle Stihl if I’m running Stihl oils but that’s my preference.

[@markgoldstine4566]

Can you get a P.O. Box Richard I will personally send a quart of saber down to nc once a damn week thanks loyal fan mark

[@Sethhaun78]

Sc

[@tomasbutenas9638]

First😄