How Much DIFFERENCE Can Piston Rings Make?

In a recent dyno test session between a $60 set of piston rings and a $600 set of piston rings, a surprising difference in engine temperature, wear and horsepower was observed when the thickness of the piston rings were changed.
Lake Speed Jr. and the guys at Shaver Specialties Racing Engines measured the impact of changing piston ring size and design, so check out the results!
The guys at Engine Masters did a similar test, so here's the link to see a comparison test:
• Dyno Tested: Are Thinn...
For the results of our previous test, check out this video:
• Engine Running HOT? Wa...
#PistonRings #Enginetechnology #horsepower #engine #radiator #dyno

[@davidphillips3953]

This is great info for race engine builders but what about guys building engines in their garage hoping to get 100,000 miles out of one? Many new car manufacturers are having major blow by and oil consumption issues with ultra thin low tension rings on really short pistons... how are we sposed to know if our local machine shop did our block with a good hone job? We can't test this stuff... do you think we should be stocking to thicker rings if we have no way of knowing what they are doing as a safety margin for our engines?

[@PurpleNovember]

That’s a good question!

[@1d10t.]

Exactly. Love a powerful motor, need it to work long haul as a daily driver.

[@saab9251]

New OE engines have substantially opened clearances for small turbo engines to account for piston expansion under load. We’ve dropped oil viscosity substantially which tends to stay suspended in vapor form in the air inside the crankcase. Combine this with a metered, continuously open orifice instead of a PCV valve that would vary depending on vacuum conditions and you have a perfect situation for vacuuming oil out of the crankcase on every new engine. OEM’s are getting worse at making cars every year now.

[@PSA78]

Car mfg quite often cut corners to save money, if for instance the oil consumption gets too high then they start using stress plates, measure more carefully etc. I used to work with OEM engines and I've heard behind the scene stories from a lot of different mfg. Point is, ask the shop what they use in terms of equipment, and don't let anyone talk you out of needing it (including your wallet). 😉

[@jonathanshaw8868]

​@@saab9251 ring end gap is to allow for the ring itself to grow and not chafe the cylinder wall to death. But you are right about everything you wrote.

[@autonomous_collective]

Note:🏁 1) Reduces Temperature 2) Power goes up 3) Less ware and friction 4) Cleaner oil 5) Variable modern hardness coatings 6) Water Temps lower 7) Plateau hone is best 8) Cost more? Yes, but its well worth it! Love the science, physics, and technology that goes into these awesome rings!

[@sanger440]

It would have been nice to see some blow by data on this test also.

[@simbanugz2906]

I know i will probably get laughed at but when I built my 12 3.7 engine before going procharged. I picked up 6whp/9ft going to total seal rings on my manley pistons. What I was more impressed with was how little blow by Ive had running my procharger. 444whp on 6 psi. Through a 6r80. I used hasting rings before total seal it was night and day difference on blow by.

[@simbanugz2906]

Guess I should or said 12 mustang

[@PurpleNovember]

@@simbanugz2906Nothing wrong with that. I remember a time in my life when 4 cylinder fox body was the car to have! For 6th grade I moved onto trucks being the most rad. 🎉 If it works for you and you’re happy with it that’s what matters. I haven’t been around engines like that much but those numbers seem pretty decent. I like what you said about the blow by. Was the price worth the gains for you?

[@ihateemael]

but was the blowby reduction just due to new rings?

[@SgtStedenko1]

Oh. Btw. Thanks a million Lake for all your extremely valuable information. We really appreciate it sir. ❤

[@TotalSeal]

My pleasure

[@teagreen2220]

If you use thinner rings with gas porting on the rings is the piston clearance more important and particular? Will a loose piston with thinner rings cause more damage than a loose piston with thicker rings. For a race application it won’t matter but for longer runs like a daily driver, is there an issue with incorrect or loose pistons running the gas ported thinner rings? Will they break easier?

[@ikariku]

excellent review and information guys!

[@TotalSeal]

Glad you liked it!

[@TotalSeal]

Glad you liked it!

[@davidraezer5937]

I’m blown away guys! I would like some details of the honing process for this ring pack. I’m assuming the gas porting along with the special plating process on these rings would make for a long lived engine. Especially given the lower cylinder bore wear. OEM manufacturers use a thinner lighter tension ring pack but I doubt they have the porting and special plating process you have due to the cost factor. All it takes is the consumer to extend oil changes and use the wrong oil and you have a recipe for disaster in any modern engine.

[@mathewboyd3746]

Is this gas ported 0.9mm ring set available for Chevy LS1 engines with 99mm or 100mm pistons? Is a custom piston required to accommodate these thinner rings? Where do I find someone to do the correct hone for these rings in California?

[@davidreed6070]

I believe,it doesnt matter what else you do to your engine,if the rings dont seal, it wont make the power it should by a substantial amount.

[@CherezianRacing]

Great results. Question i have is was the hone the same for both the A and B test? If so was the block rehoned to the same specs after the A test?

[@jeffwooton7138]

As always, great information, and great presentation. I'm truly impressed with this new ring design.

[@donbrutcher4501]

"Parasitic Power Loss" went down. I doubt MEP changed. Win Win Win! I wonder what changed with the brake specific?

[@TotalSeal]

It would have been nice to have in-cylinder combustion analysis hooked up while we were doing those tests.

[@jefffanning2799]

Phenomenal! Firestone question. Will I be able to get similar piston rings for a 1.7L watercooled VW motor?

[@billlittle4285]

Been using.08 mm in my super stock Olds engine for a while,used them in my SB as well,ran the fastest with a ball hone and a steel ring that had been in the engine for 2 ball hones, that's cost-effective , can i get a discount on my next set, August says i can, thanks for great rings and great service!!

[@krusher74]

We arnt all 400hp V8 centric viewers, its would always be nice to hear a % improvement. Then we can maybe extratrapolate the rough benefits to our own power source when considering which rings to buy. (The power graph is at 19.33) , 4% increase? would you expect engine of 100hp and a 1000hp to get a similar 4% gain? would a 4 cylinder have more or less to gain than a V12?

[@lanwickum]

Conservation of energy. Physics. Thanks for showing it. Wonder what milage change that would be?

[@toddnewman2835]

Awesome info, thanks a million, I mean thanks for 20 HP! Cheers

[@PSA78]

Even on a street/daily engine that price (rings + quality machining) is probably payed off pretty quick on fuel consumption as well.

[@russellweber3466]

In most cases you get what you pay for with quality components.

[@davidreed6070]

Summit has gas ported 1.2 mm steel nitrided ring packs for a reasonable price. Is there a reason a person shouldnt use them?

[@psychoholicslag4801]

Have you considered the name "Hawk Tua Spit on That Thing Piston Ring"?😅

[@brentonk461ismylostaccount]

That's great for Money no object Racing.. I used total seal in some of my Engines, and have no quip about them, but for my budget built 14:1 compression pump fuel daily driver sbc combo, I'm still going too choose the $40-$60 ring set and pocket the $540 change and use the money elsewhere thanks.

[@roostingthe6520]

Way cool!! Thanks for posting!!

[@TotalSeal]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@joecarroll1735]

Are y’all dynoing at Shavers?

[@waynekarjala2032]

Lake certainly has a fitting last name

[@mightyfinejonboy]

i see videos about ring gap, but what is the gap from the ring side to the piston ring land? what sort of profile does the ring have as in flat or slightly curved face to the cylinder wall. do any piston rings have groves in the face to create a labyrinth seal and can this sort of "seal" be tried on a piston surface?

[@kevrasx]

How do I get this in my old Toyota 1NZ-FE?

[@philmariop]

Were your dyno cell instrumented you could measure thermal power of the coolant loop. If you measured mechanical power, exhaust thermal power, and coolant thermal power, you could more thoroughly understand where each joule is consumed.

[@kylemilligan752]

The dyno graphs you show indicate a peak hp at 5600rpm, and rolled over by 6000rpm. The 1/16 ring dyno shows 430-435ish hp based on scaling, while the trick rings appear to be 445ish hp. From your dyno graphs, this appears to be a pretty basic small block with a dual plane. 460ish torque and 430-435ish hp at a peak of 5600rpm, and rolled over by 6000rpm. If I take your dyno graphs of a mild street everyday dual plane small block peaking at 5600 on an engine dyno 1/16 rings, and you tell me it made 18-20hp more. No, not on a strictly controlled A to B test. Im calling shenanigans. You should supplement your income selling marvel mystery oil and slick 50

[@427_FE]

Did you test the 1/16 gas port rings on the same pistons that had the ductile molly rings? That would be an interesting comparison for those that don't want to buy new pistons.

[@TotalSeal]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZXGq6FjncZ9kK8

[@SgtStedenko1]

I'm using Total Seal plasma moly 1/16 th ring stack with my 383/496 Mopar stroker build and my other build 400/512 stroker,,will be the new total seal gas ported rings in the same width ... Both engines will be dyno tested using the same exact max wedge fully ported heads and all USA made valvetrain and Heads❤❤❤

[@69Applekrate]

Nice, informative. Less wear, less heat, less friction, more HP, etc. What about mileage tests? I'd guess most of your customers are street apps.

[@PurpleNovember]

That’s what I want to know. I’m also curious if oil life could possibly be extended for some engines.

[@69Applekrate]

@@PurpleNovember it would seem that it would but, do not know from experience

[@kylemilligan752]

Next time you try to sell people on the ring friction idea try this approach while choosing the dyno graphs to show the general public. Torque difference at 3000rpm should be little to nothing. Big tq gains at a 3000rpm load in indicates the whole comparison is flawed. Try again with some factual A to B testing. Ain't it a bitch when another dyno guy happens upon your videos?

[@kylemilligan752]

I have a question. If this was a fresh engine for dyno comparisons, most builders would have used the plateau hone for the 1/16 ring package, then maybe give a touch-up for the new rings. The speaker indicated the prior hone job is unknown for the 1/16 rings. So, what was the engine? An unknown new machine shop hone w new 1/16 rings? Was this a used engine due for a refresh, hone, and new rings? It seems some critical details have been left out.

[@joshkelly3743]

How would the longevity compare in a daily driver? Would it last as long

[@TotalSeal]

Last longer

[@isalmankhan1]

You guy's are the best👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@TotalSeal]

Thanks!

[@FadetoBlack1463]

What thickness ring would be used for a turbo charged 1500-2000 HP application? Im not sure thin ring would handle that heat?

[@YourFriendlyHoodVampire]

You would use a 0.02284994982739mm ring. Duh

[@FadetoBlack1463]

@YourFriendlyHoodVampire That must have took a lot of thought on your behalf. Go rest now child.

[@YourFriendlyHoodVampire]

@@FadetoBlack1463 dumb questions get dumb answers.

[@dogface3437]

Gotta pay for HARTFORDS pro stock bills somehow!!

[@pauljanssen7594]

The differences what is are you doing a cheap ring or you build a full race motor that's the answer. I always use the cheap set of Hastings ring rerings are you building a street engine that want to get 300,000 out of it, all right all out race engine.

[@byronneal8638]

So, would it be safe to say that the gas ported rings contract during the intake stroke due to the vacuum in the cylinder? Further reducing friction and wear. I have always wanted to see just such a comparison as you have presented today. This is very interesting for an old school engine guy like myself.

[@stevenbrown1613]

Same rules and uses for turbo, supercharger engines ?

[@every-istand-ophobe6320]

It's almost like friction causes heat

[@shanerorko8076]

18hp for $400 it's not too bad, but the lower temps is going to better.

[@billlittle4285]

Did you mention Radial depth?

[@ihateemael]

when do you think this tech will be used by new car/motorcycle manufacturers? or is it already??

[@TotalSeal]

It is already being used by OEMs.

[@rolandtamaccio3285]

The hot oil is not all about the increased friction . The point .9 ring combo obviously had less blowby , especially near peak power . And you know you didn't measure ( or comment on ) blowby intentionally for this test .

[@MrBlackbutang]

Made my own rings out of bronze. Enigizer Boonee

[@68nitrostang]

Alcohol sprint car motors oil temp ?

[@TotalSeal]

On the track, 280F to 300F

[@benoconnor6355]

Thats $20 - $22 per hp. You would be hard pressed to find a better HP per $ ratio.

[@shaneshane1379]

Just pay 600 dollars for the cheaper rings and avoid all that work. 😂

[@bobanppvc]

20 hp gain in friction with rings is too much...Blow by must be insane to lose 20 hp

[@TotalSeal]

Nope. That was all friction

[@dustinandtarynwolfe5540]

Im not spending 600 dollars on rings for anything

[@123chrispapa]

this test isn't apples to apples the pistons are not identical

[@GTRliffe]

i dont beleive these amazing claims. The max difference between any and all ring technology isn't more than 1-3%

[@JoshuaABartlett]

Could be a lot more to do with cylinder wall finish

[@Hanibul_Lecktor]

Cryogenic treated etc, definitely surpasses 1-3% performance, longevity etc. Laughable people still live in denial

[@krusher74]

@@Hanibul_Lecktor We are in the age of only believing something if it suits you!

[@shanerorko8076]

See all the names at the end they mention, best go look them all up. Just Lake Speed on his own has had more dyno sessions than you've had hot dinners. These guys are at the top of the top in engine development. Lake Speed has a degrees in this field as an engineer in Tribology and spent 20 years at a Nascar engine shop before returning to his father's ring buisness. I'm going to say that Lake knows more than a forum dude which I bet you are.

[@shotamakarashvili3714]

Jesus, have you been talking. You need to learn how to be shorter in words... It could have been explained 3 times faster.

[@YourFriendlyHoodVampire]

They gotta make you think they're good honest folk first; Parasocial banter for the marketing scheme

[@shotamakarashvili3714]

@YourFriendlyHoodVampire strangely enough that's the thought that came to my mind too...

[@YourFriendlyHoodVampire]

@@shotamakarashvili3714 or it works 🤷 idk what to believe anymore

[@crispyone2564]

DynoDonnyMac. I like him

[@TotalSeal]

He’s the MAN!