How Much DIFFERENCE Can Piston Rings Make?

[@autonomous_collective]

Note:🏁 1) Reduces Temperature 2) Power goes up 3) Less ware and friction 4) Cleaner oil 5) Variable modern hardness coatings 6) Water Temps lower 7) Plateau hone is best 8) Cost more? Yes, but its well worth it! Love the science, physics, and technology that goes into these awesome rings!

[@thenomadrhodes]

How long will it LAST is the real question? Is it going to go hundreds of thousands of miles?

[@OracleDavis]

Burning more oil?

[@chrisd078]

Summit Pro GPX piston rings are manufactured by Total Seal and they are $219. Rings actually come in a Total Seal box. Summit sells 1.0 1.0 2.0 with gas ported versions. Save yourself $400. Use the Summit brand.

[@davidphillips3953]

This is great info for race engine builders but what about guys building engines in their garage hoping to get 100,000 miles out of one? Many new car manufacturers are having major blow by and oil consumption issues with ultra thin low tension rings on really short pistons... how are we sposed to know if our local machine shop did our block with a good hone job? We can't test this stuff... do you think we should be stocking to thicker rings if we have no way of knowing what they are doing as a safety margin for our engines?

[@1d10t.]

Exactly. Love a powerful motor, need it to work long haul as a daily driver.

[@saab9251]

New OE engines have substantially opened clearances for small turbo engines to account for piston expansion under load. We’ve dropped oil viscosity substantially which tends to stay suspended in vapor form in the air inside the crankcase. Combine this with a metered, continuously open orifice instead of a PCV valve that would vary depending on vacuum conditions and you have a perfect situation for vacuuming oil out of the crankcase on every new engine. OEM’s are getting worse at making cars every year now.

[@PSA78]

Car mfg quite often cut corners to save money, if for instance the oil consumption gets too high then they start using stress plates, measure more carefully etc. I used to work with OEM engines and I've heard behind the scene stories from a lot of different mfg. Point is, ask the shop what they use in terms of equipment, and don't let anyone talk you out of needing it (including your wallet). 😉

[@jonathanshaw8868]

​@@saab9251 ring end gap is to allow for the ring itself to grow and not chafe the cylinder wall to death. But you are right about everything you wrote.

[@jonathanshaw8868]

Engine builder here, yeah low tension rings are junk, unless you have a trailer queen car that's only going to see track use, forget it. For the average guy, I will gladly sacrifice a few hp for life span.

[@sanger440]

It would have been nice to see some blow by data on this test also.

[@chrispompano]

Crankcase pressure?

[@scotteric8711]

I used total seal gapless, file fit rings on an otherwise stock rebuilt 1969 Cadillac 472 engine, and it made more power and torque than original. The engine had a stronger vacuum signal to the carb as well!

[@edsmachine93]

Thank you Lake, Shaver Specialties, Total Seal and everyone envolved. Very impressive tests for sure. I was surprised to see the oil temp so high in the first test. Nice gains all the way around. Have a great weekend. 👍🇺🇸👍

[@TotalSeal]

Our pleasure!

[@SgtStedenko1]

Oh. Btw. Thanks a million Lake for all your extremely valuable information. We really appreciate it sir. ❤

[@TotalSeal]

My pleasure

[@bobirving6052]

Awesome work TotaSeal. Great videos as always Lake Speed Jr! Cool stuff!

[@TotalSeal]

I appreciate that

[@jeffwooton7138]

As always, great information, and great presentation. I'm truly impressed with this new ring design.

[@simbanugz2906]

I know i will probably get laughed at but when I built my 12 3.7 engine before going procharged. I picked up 6whp/9ft going to total seal rings on my manley pistons. What I was more impressed with was how little blow by Ive had running my procharger. 444whp on 6 psi. Through a 6r80. I used hasting rings before total seal it was night and day difference on blow by.

[@simbanugz2906]

Guess I should or said 12 mustang

[@bleach_drink_me]

Nothing wrong with that, coming from a guy with a built twin turbo vq35de in a G35 which is equally laughable to some.

[@MarkShinnick]

​@@ihateemaelIt's the usual consistent result.

[@robertwest3093]

Lake, it’s like you’re reading my mind! I look for these kinds of comparisons on the web and their really isn’t a whole lot.

[@ikariku]

excellent review and information guys!

[@TotalSeal]

Glad you liked it!

[@TotalSeal]

Glad you liked it!

[@davidraezer5937]

I’m blown away guys! I would like some details of the honing process for this ring pack. I’m assuming the gas porting along with the special plating process on these rings would make for a long lived engine. Especially given the lower cylinder bore wear. OEM manufacturers use a thinner lighter tension ring pack but I doubt they have the porting and special plating process you have due to the cost factor. All it takes is the consumer to extend oil changes and use the wrong oil and you have a recipe for disaster in any modern engine.

[@robertwest3093]

Yay finally a real piston ring test. Dyno comparisons for the 5/64 rings vs ultra thin rings is scarce.

[@markwanc1103]

Just great video's from you guys. Both of you would be an absolute riot to work with - easy to see you have fun while you are doing development testing. I always learn a ton of information from your well put together videos.

[@TotalSeal]

Thanks so much!

[@Op1zilla]

Great info Men 👽👍🏻

[@sbcmike2765]

Why didnt you give the thick ring the good hone job? How do we know how much improvement is caused by the hone or the actual ring? Im sure its the ring that helped but by did the hone job help with the heat?

[@ryam8962]

Thank you for sharing your hard earned, expensively gained, knowledge.

[@TotalSeal]

Glad it was helpful!

[@oldskool235]

Been building engines for over 33 years. I remember when moly rings were all the rage. I still use rotella for the break in. 1,500 rpm idle , no load, for 45 minutes, then drain it. Old-school break in procedure.

[@mosesadk454]

Back in the mid 70s I paid $40.00 for a set of Hastings cast iron rings for my 68 400 GTO. Never had a problem.

[@robertwest3093]

Finally a fair ring comparison that shows the real difference in power. I knew that the OEMs weren’t going to thinner rings for the hell of it. Just imagine if the thicker rings HAD been the 5/64 package? Joe Sherman always said that thinner rings were worth 30 horsepower going from the thickest to the thinnest.

[@MattsRageFitGarage]

The only bad thing I have found about the thinner rings are they are prone to getting stuck/sluged up from lack of oil change and PCV maintenance but if you do regular maintenance, it's never a problem. A lot of these modern cars that have chronic oil burning problems past about 40-50,000 miles is because the rings get stuck from long oil changes.

[@thatmand4542]

This is awesome, I never really looked at it that way when it comes to the rings but it makes perfect and obvious sense now ! Definitely a factor to add in when it comes to my next engine build, that being an AMC stroker for my daily driven jeep Lj! Gonna have to see and spec out a piston and see what i can find cause i cant custom order pistons and get em next week.....

[@teagreen2220]

If you use thinner rings with gas porting on the rings is the piston clearance more important and particular? Will a loose piston with thinner rings cause more damage than a loose piston with thicker rings. For a race application it won’t matter but for longer runs like a daily driver, is there an issue with incorrect or loose pistons running the gas ported thinner rings? Will they break easier?

[@magnusdanielsson2749]

If planning on using those thin steel rings you should make sure your machine shop have to tools to do a proper plateau hone. That means they should at least have a four stone diamond hone and preferably a six stone to be able to get the bore proper straight and produce the plateau needed for those rings. The older more common two stone hone with two supports wont be good enough.

[@partsshooter]

2 things I'm skeptical about regarding this power change that likely increased the power was the margin for human error/variable and the coolant concentration. Human error meaning, we could've accidently been off .5 degrees of timing with the distributor assigning the power contribution to that. This do have an influence on temps also Coolant, well... assuming the water pump isn't electronic, adding more water will cut resistance with less stress of the engine. That's similar to oil type of 20w50 to 10w30 at the crank fighting cut resistance. I'm not disagreeing totally those rings didn't do anything but that margin was more significant than I'd imagine. I was giving it an 8hp gain. One guy with the top comment addressed alot of what I was thinking dealing with these 2020 vehicles and their propensity to ingest oil from a long term perspective concern. However, carburetor engines got around 30k miles to our 100k miles today 😆. Yes I'm talking shit about you guys who like carbs. But the consistency draws my concern because we humans touched it. Example, I'd have better confidence if this was timing chained with ignition coils, knock sensor, and coil on plug, etc. I got my money on the output realistically being lower to what's claimed to what most of us was projecting. But I'm not gonna ever claim it's not gonna add power

[@ryandeweese363]

Great information about ring selection!! When I upgrade my dual plug 4.7 to forged pistons, I'll deff be upgrading the ring as well... Was thinking about getting the mahle power pack pistons but nothing listed for a sub 4" bore... 3.71 I gonna be difficult I think as most v8s run 4+. I did note mustang 4.6 has similar sized pistons. Thanks for the heads up on the plateau hone too, sure that works alot better than the old ball hone

[@chrispompano]

Well that ends that....a Delorean's PRV V6 uses 3.58” (91mm). So nothing less than 4"?

[@brentonk461ismylostaccount]

That's great for Money no object Racing.. I used total seal in some of my Engines, and have no quip about them, but for my budget built 14:1 compression pump fuel daily driver sbc combo, I'm still going too choose the $40-$60 ring set and pocket the $540 change and use the money elsewhere thanks.

[@chrispompano]

How can you run 14:1 on pump gas? What's the secret?🤔

[@brentonk461ismylostaccount]

@chrispompano A Life time of studying Engines, and my Own Research and Development.

[@autumnjeserich2689]

Static compression isn't directly related to cylinder pressure. 14 to 1 will even run on 85 octane with no detonation if your intake valve closes late enough

[@bigboreracing356]

I ran a B&M 420 Mega Blower on a iron head 11.5 to 1 compression 468 Chevy using 93 pump gas. I simply used a loose converter in a light weight car ,3.73 gears big cooling system, loose bearing clearances to keep oil temp down and a on the fly timing retard. When I got called out I switched to C16 and backed the timing off a little. Another trick is to install a water Meth injection system but becareful because those can fail if you dont maintain them. It is easy to cruise around on pump gas with higher than normal compression when you use common sense.

[@brentonk461ismylostaccount]

​@@bigboreracing356 Sounds alright, I'm sure it goes well, but I was talking about my daily driver combo, drive it too the track, drive it too the shops, drive it in peak hour traffic 2-3 hours do some runs at the track drive it home on pump fuel 327 small block 14:1+ static compression ratio on unleaded pump fuel, Not oxygenated leaded Race gas, no octane boosters, no water methanol injection Naturally aspirated No power adders No turbo No blower No nitrous 10 second quarter mile times, full weight four door sedan @3400-3700 lbs And probably capable of 9's in a stripped out Race Car on Race Gas.

[@jefffanning2799]

Phenomenal! Firestone question. Will I be able to get similar piston rings for a 1.7L watercooled VW motor?

[@billyarsenault1970]

Jeez Lake I never known anyone who insists so much on making everything ultra perfectly clear for all us poor suckers like you do. Thats very considerate and I appreciate all the extra work.🤘🏻

[@aussietaipan8700]

Many years ago I purchased a HQ Holden Monaro Coupe, this car had a tiered old 308CU V8. I had it rebuilt with a balanced crank, rods and new pistons in 1987. The rings the engine builder used were chrome molly, the top ring being 1.8mm thick. Instead of the top ring being 1.8mm flat, it was gas port dome shape. The rebuild engine ran like a cat escaping a dog and best of all, in 2024 it is still running great. Much less engine wear, lower oil temp, less friction. This car runs a 13.6 quarter mile on an otherwise almost stock engine.

[@toddnewman2835]

Awesome info, thanks a million, I mean thanks for 20 HP! Cheers

[@thereckchanic4709]

Will it last 200K miles though with the carbon buildup inside the pistons on a daily driver?

[@ercost60]

Almost certainly not.

[@DonaldIsnenghi]

Dear Sirs, to use the new rings it is necessary to request special order pistons, or are they already available? Thank you for your attention.

[@karlw426]

Good video and Good Rings. Just wondering how the thin total seal Rings with stand up compared to regular Good quality Rings over 200,000 miles of use?

[@mathewboyd3746]

Is this gas ported 0.9mm ring set available for Chevy LS1 engines with 99mm or 100mm pistons? Is a custom piston required to accommodate these thinner rings? Where do I find someone to do the correct hone for these rings in California?

[@DS-TRUCKS]

So cool to learn this kind of stuff!

[@kentegel8975]

Just curious ----- What was the difference in blowby between the 2 different ring sets?

[@ssswdon]

This is good info. Did you assemble a video with boosted? Cuz I'm sure they'll break down those o-rings to become like so flat in tension pretty quickly

[@TotalSeal]

Check out the Engine Performance Expo, we ran 1.0mm steel rings with 20 psi of boost.

[@rocketsurgeon11]

So, what are the trade off's? There's no free lunch. Also, if you have an application where this type of ring isn't typically used, how do the oddballs go about taking advantage of the new tech?

[@benoconnor6355]

Thats $20 - $22 per hp. You would be hard pressed to find a better HP per $ ratio.

[@billlittle4285]

Been using.08 mm in my super stock Olds engine for a while,used them in my SB as well,ran the fastest with a ball hone and a steel ring that had been in the engine for 2 ball hones, that's cost-effective , can i get a discount on my next set, August says i can, thanks for great rings and great service!!

[@krusher74]

We arnt all 400hp V8 centric viewers, its would always be nice to hear a % improvement. Then we can maybe extratrapolate the rough benefits to our own power source when considering which rings to buy. (The power graph is at 19.33) , 4% increase? would you expect engine of 100hp and a 1000hp to get a similar 4% gain? would a 4 cylinder have more or less to gain than a V12?

[@Broke2FastGarage]

All these big words and ideas, but you can't make a simple connection?

[@TheAnonymous1one]

This is great info!

[@TotalSeal]

Glad it was helpful!

[@АлексейСоловьёв-ь3щ5ш]

So what hone should i apply to modern thin ring set?

[@davidreed6070]

I believe,it doesnt matter what else you do to your engine,if the rings dont seal, it wont make the power it should by a substantial amount.

[@reallivehumandrummer4438]

What is the part number of the 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 Hasting rings tested first?

[@SgtStedenko1]

I'm using Total Seal plasma moly 1/16 th ring stack with my 383/496 Mopar stroker build and my other build 400/512 stroker,,will be the new total seal gas ported rings in the same width ... Both engines will be dyno tested using the same exact max wedge fully ported heads and all USA made valvetrain and Heads❤❤❤

[@stickman-1]

The sealing of the combustion gases inside the cylinder and not going around the rings also would reduce the temp of the oil. You could prove this by putting an shielded air temp sensor in the crankcase to measure the temp of the air in the sump/block.

[@BigEightiesNewWave]

When I got into NASCAR, because we had THE only west coast track, RIR, and I saw all kinds of racing there, not just NASCAR, they used Perfect Circle piston rings. Just looked this up now! "Perfect Circle piston rings are now essentially known as MAHLE piston rings, as the Perfect Circle company was acquired by MAHLE and the brand is now marketed under the MAHLE name, particularly for piston rings; meaning if you're looking for "Perfect Circle" piston rings, you're likely looking for MAHLE products today"

[@user-tn1hk6zm2freedom]

I rebuilt a 283 Chevy engine back in 1974 when I was in the military. I cleaned the engine block and parts with what the military uses. I don't know the name of it but when the block and parts came out of the cleaner they started rusting instantly. coated them with oil fast. I put the engine together and ran it 4000 miles and the oil was as clean as when I put it in. I sold the car so I never did find out when the man changed the oil. Never got to use that cleaner again and the rebuilds went back to normal. Lol. It was proof the way the parts are cleaned makes a real big difference.

[@Born_Stellar]

I put the expensive rings in my vw 4cyl 8 valve, felt really good after the rebuild. down hills at low rpm you could feel the air pressure in the cylinders slow the car down.

[@OscarHernandez-ym4hx]

Can you explain?

[@Born_Stellar]

@@OscarHernandez-ym4hx when you are coasting the engine is just compressing air, with everything sealed really well the air pressure in the cylinders would slow the car down more than before. kinda like engine braking in a semi truck.

[@paulspee2968]

Great information guys. How will these rings perform in a Nissan VQ35DE Rev-up, which is notorious for piston ring problems? Thanks.

[@CherezianRacing]

Great results. Question i have is was the hone the same for both the A and B test? If so was the block rehoned to the same specs after the A test?

[@INFANTRY1981]

I think we can safely (assume) for the gas ring test, the cylinders were inspected and wiped clean. It could be argued that the non-gas ring test was used as a pre-break in but they admit as much anyway as they explained "manipiulated" data - EXTRAPOLATED for water/oil temp diffs. In the end, I though it was a good test, obviously targeted to the race engine builder and not the garage scientist 'assembler' like myself. Then again, I know if I want to run a modern piston in a 500-600hp BB build, I prolly need to get researched on gas ported ring - piston matches.

[@CherezianRacing]

@@INFANTRY1981 really dont want to have to assume anything when dyno testing haha. If it was rehoned to the same specs the "A" rings saw then it would be a great test. If they were just "wiped clean" then its not a fair test as im sure the cylinders had different readings after being broken in with the "A" test.

[@thomasward4505]

Where can we find or how do we know our machine shop gave us a plateau finish

[@Moparmaga-1]

I bought and use the gas ported total seal. I think they're good but I did a bunch of changes after my original rings ended up busting.

[@robdog5.0w]

where to get race prep plateau hone done in nashville area? middle Tn? need spacers for my 1 1/16 rings too

[@davidreed6070]

The small block Chevy with the wide rings had to be bored with 100.000 miles,an ls with 250.000 miles with the narrow sreel rings the bore can hone and run again.

[@roostingthe6520]

Way cool!! Thanks for posting!!

[@TotalSeal]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@PSA78]

Even on a street/daily engine that price (rings + quality machining) is probably payed off pretty quick on fuel consumption as well.

[@jameswieler3295]

how long does your ring last however. I assume longer but would be great to see the data. Also are there any ring coatings that come close to the wear and heat performance of modern AlumaSil cylinder liners

[@spdcrzy]

I'd love to do a comparison between a well-known, reliable motor that has had nothing done to it and another otherwise identical motor that has EVERYTHING. They would have to have the same exact compression, pistons, rods, cam, crank, block, heads, exhaust, the whole nine yards - but the second motor would have every single possible frictional reduction technique done to it: fully balanced, knife edged, polished, dry sump, coated everything (pistons, pins, cylinder walls, valves, even rockers if need be), oil squirters, thinner gapless gas-ported rings, and so on. I think you'd see a 15-20% increase. Over the ENTIRE rev range. That's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-150hp, depending on what the OG motor put out. Here, it's 425-ish, so I'd say you'd get somewhere around a 65-70hp gain. WITH increased oil, bore, head, AND valve life as a result.

[@monkeyfinger7949]

Very impressive. But how does the thinner ring hold up under say, road race conditions? How many miles will this ring go before it needs to be replaced?

[@TotalSeal]

Switching to thinner, steel rings allowed the NASCAR teams to triple the life of their engines.

[@markdixon4912]

So lake what kind of difference do you think you would see with a sumebore over the rottler bore?Also would the thinner rings work with mild amount of nitrous assuming you gapped them correctly?

[@bobgyetvai9444]

So whats better , the gas ported rings or the zero gap top rings ??

[@mightyfinejonboy]

i see videos about ring gap, but what is the gap from the ring side to the piston ring land? what sort of profile does the ring have as in flat or slightly curved face to the cylinder wall. do any piston rings have groves in the face to create a labyrinth seal and can this sort of "seal" be tried on a piston surface?

[@dextirias]

Incredible. If one day the engine of my daily car needs to be rebuild, I will research if these 0.9 mm piston rings could be compatible with my engine.

[@donbrutcher4501]

"Parasitic Power Loss" went down. I doubt MEP changed. Win Win Win! I wonder what changed with the brake specific?

[@TotalSeal]

It would have been nice to have in-cylinder combustion analysis hooked up while we were doing those tests.

[@keithstudly6071]

The 1/16 rings were standard for a long time. Why wasn't the oil temp as high as it was this time. I heard you say the oil temp was higher than you had ever seen before in break in. This leads me to believe that something was not optimum in the ring instillation for the larger rings or they would not have been so much hotter than they were. Is it the hone finish that give the wider rings trouble? I wonder how we would have lived with rings that create so much friction for so long? The greater area for the ring face should make for a better hydraulic wedge between the cylinder wall and the ring. Ring flutter and blow by can also produce heat. I have to believe the wider rings were not working as well as they should have been. Also the OME engines have been going to thinner rings for improvement in fuel economy but this has increased the oil consumption especially in engines with some miles on them. Are these rings reducing engine life? I've heard people who do service say that oil consumption is up on recent engines.

[@philmariop]

Were your dyno cell instrumented you could measure thermal power of the coolant loop. If you measured mechanical power, exhaust thermal power, and coolant thermal power, you could more thoroughly understand where each joule is consumed.

[@saccaed]

19:31 for overlaid Dyno plots. Would be interesting to see the same test on another engine that has very different bore/stroke/piston count. Trying to work out if its one of those things better thought of as absolute gains or percent gains. Either way that seems like an alright way to gain an extra mpg or two for road trips.

[@isalmankhan1]

You guy's are the best👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@TotalSeal]

Thanks!

[@VintageEuropeanSpeed-f7e]

You have to be very cautious with low tension oil rings guys, especially the oil rings. Oil consumption can be an issue if you don't balance that correctly for whatever particular engine you're working as they all have specific needs. I build exotic engines, vintage Ferrari/Maserati/Lambo, and the oil ring tension is very sensitive. We went with a 2.8mm a few times with I believe around 13lbs tension on a few engines and they consumed way too much oil, swapping to standard 15-16lbs 3mm oil rings on future builds solved the issue.

[@lanwickum]

Conservation of energy. Physics. Thanks for showing it. Wonder what milage change that would be?

[@waynecera6775]

Should have had blowby readings too. That is the real test of the ring sealing.

[@peraz968]

Hi. Just whatcing your videos and this came to my mind. I thin you should test RVS oil additive. Or actually it is not regular additive, because it works pretty well after it has done it's job, even if an engine oil is chanced. One Finnish TV program tested it years ago, and wanted to see if it really does anything. And it did. They drive like an 100 miles completely without any engine oil. And engine did handle that almost like nothing. Of course it was hot like hell, because there was not oil to lubricate and transfer heat. But all bearings, pistons etc. all worked just fine without seezig! It would be interesting to know what kind of power difference this product can make. Thanks for the videos!

[@bricekoirokpi9954]

Good to see you

[@TheDynotuner]

GREAT proof for all the confused & non believer's! I can tell ya for a fact our UOA's are always better with your ring packs. And that's even before the new hone preciseness... 👍🏽👍🏽 See ya soon @ PRI

[@TotalSeal]

Right on!

[@AndrewSquires-c6z]

Low tension ring they are talking about is why every 3 car today with them burn oil when we rarely had a problem before

[@OscarHernandez-ym4hx]

Thank You.

[@427_FE]

Did you test the 1/16 gas port rings on the same pistons that had the ductile molly rings? That would be an interesting comparison for those that don't want to buy new pistons.

[@TotalSeal]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZXGq6FjncZ9kK8

[@bigboybuilder]

the results i would have expected from a manufactures video

[@INFANTRY1981]

Lol - fair enough!

[@johnnyrouse2713]

My question is using the 5/64 ring would total seal rings$100 more than the regular rings be worth it cannot afford to change Pistons I could use the 564 total seal rings

[@FadetoBlack1463]

What thickness ring would be used for a turbo charged 1500-2000 HP application? Im not sure thin ring would handle that heat?

[@YourFriendlyHoodVampire]

You would use a 0.02284994982739mm ring. Duh

[@FadetoBlack1463]

@YourFriendlyHoodVampire That must have took a lot of thought on your behalf. Go rest now child.

[@YourFriendlyHoodVampire]

@@FadetoBlack1463 dumb questions get dumb answers.

[@psychoholicslag4801]

Have you considered the name "Hawk Tua Spit on That Thing Piston Ring"?😅

[@andymarteney9820]

every time i see this guy i always get a informercial feel

[@salvatorehayes2753]

I Wish This Video Came Out 18Weeks Ago When I Ordered My Custom Pistons haha I Would Have Had The Pistons Made For This Style Of Rings. I Wounder How They Do Long Term? 150,000-200,000 Service Life?

[@davidreed6070]

Summit has gas ported 1.2 mm steel nitrided ring packs for a reasonable price. Is there a reason a person shouldnt use them?

[@waynekarjala2032]

Lake certainly has a fitting last name

[@TurboMalibuV6]

I'm sold on the total seal gapless rings, but I'm not sold on thinner rings and gas porting.

[@BigEightiesNewWave]

NASCAR brake linings were Grey Rock, probably long gone now. I stand corrected! ""Grey Rock" brake linings are still available today, manufactured by Haldex, and are considered a well-established brand known for their high-performance and stability in heavy-duty vehicles, particularly trucks; essentially, nothing significant has happened to Grey Rock brake linings, they continue to be a prominent option in the market; their legacy of reliable braking performance remains intact"

[@joshkelly3743]

How would the longevity compare in a daily driver? Would it last as long

[@TotalSeal]

Last longer

[@ICONBADGTA]

I had a set of Probe FPS series SBC pistons in 2006ish-2008ish that had the horizontal drilled gas ports with 1/16-1/16-3/16 ring pack... I'd like to see a true "APPLES TO APPLES" comparison of the (SAME EXACT SIZE) ring, for (BOTH) just one ported and one not... Not different sized rings... I think the ultimate gain wouldn't be anymore than 10HP at most, and what about "BLOW-BY"?!? Less tension generally means more blow-by and possible oil getting past into the chambers to get burnt... Ram has a recall on certain engines made by Fiat/Chrysler due to low tension rings causing oil consumption issues. And what about Boost?!? For instance a super-turbocharged 10psi street engine.... I rather have a little bit thicker ring for durability.... Less prone to breakage by accidental detonation, etc. Thoughts?

[@MrGivmedew]

I have a very important question. On the engines I build for my cars I usually use rods that really can’t handle a significant increase in power. So like on a 2 liter of the stock rods 300HP the new rods can only handle maybe 400HP. So I have to be mindful to not exceed what the rod can handle. So my question is this. Does the extra power you are making exert itself on the rods? Meaning that the rods on the total seal setup are experiencing more force on them than the other rings. I assume yes but just want to know for sure. Thanks guys, been using your pistons since the 2000s.

[@joecarroll1735]

Are y’all dynoing at Shavers?

[@JC-gw3yo]

I imagine this is racing. How long before the gas ports plug up on a street engine?. How many miles ?

[@patbeattie1989]

Did they mention a %difference for the HP number?

[@alleyoop1234]

No mention of the difference in the cost of the two honing techniques.

[@russellweber3466]

In most cases you get what you pay for with quality components.

[@ximan09]

Should have tested a gapless set too?

[@turbotrana]

Instead of thinner rings, why not step the outer edge to whatever thickness you want. I remember using stepped rings in rering only jobs to clear the wear ridge. It was something done 30+ years ago. You would have room for a decent size ring port also.

[@dannyfasttcars8612]

Where do you get stepped rings? Really haven't seen any available

[@TEAMWRIGHTEOUS]

You mentioned $400 more for the rings, but you also need new pistons as well... So it'll be that much more as well... Still impressive, but cost would be more.