Amtrak Empire Builder #8 being flagged and a stupid semi!

[@PaulCashman]

This is an unusual situation, with (apparently) a defective crossing signal. Under Federal Railroad Administration rules, if crossing signals are not working properly trains must stop and the crossing must be flagged before proceeding. As for the train whistling, whistles are required at most grade crossings in the U.S., with rare exceptions like Quiet Zones or restricted access areas.

[@NASCARCHAT24]

I just go with the word “horn” and not whistle :/

[@bnsflover7062]

@@NASCARCHAT24Hey man I do to but some people are not like us and dont know much about locomotives as we do but as long as they know the main importance about locomotives than hey Everybody satisfied.

[@danielcarlin7784]

@@bnsflover7062 actually no. whistle is the proper term when talking about the rules on a railroad. it is how the object is defined in all rules

[@bnsflover7062]

@@danielcarlin7784 yeah but the whistle Originated from steam locomotives since they came before diesel so They often think the Term whistle is still applied To modern locomotives.

[@danielcarlin7784]

@@bnsflover7062 it is. the word whistle is used to describe the blowing of the horn on a railroad. new or old locomotives, steam or air

[@milwaukeejt]

A few pertinent points and observations: 1) Weight x Speed = Force. Remember that when approaching RR tracks. Even a slow moving train packs enough force to obliterate your vehicle, and you along with it. 2) It is *always* the responsibility of the driver of a truck (any truck), car, motorcycle, whatever, to be cautious and vigilant when crossing RR tracks. Trains can't steer, or stop on a dime. You have more control than they do. 3) A flagman has the same authority/control over traffic flow as a traffic cop. If there's one in the middle of the road at a crossing, you do what they tell you to do. If you are unsure what they want, STOP. They will either make it clear, or you will wake up. Either way, stopping shy of the tracks is the safe bet. (see #1, above) 4) The truck was stopped at the intersection. The train was in his sight line as he approached. This *should* have made him extra vigilant and cautious. 5) This flagman was just shy of the middle of the road, flag in hand, when the truck driver began moving and making his turn. 6) The flagman was smack in front of him well before he started crossing the track. (2:23) With a train nearby, even stopped, the truck driver should have been looking harder, and seeing the flagman. Conclusion: This driver violated a major safety regulation. Penalties may vary from state to state, but first offense is commonly suspension of CDL for a few months, second offense more months. More important than that, he could get himself and/or someone else injured or killed. I grew up with 3 different railroads, running on 2 separate tracks within a block of the house I lived in. There were long distance freights, and passenger trains that moved at 60+ mph. There were also slow moving switch engines, moving back and forth across roads, dropping loaded cars off and picking up empties. I have seen the aftermath of collisions between trains and cars, trucks of all sizes, motorcycles, and even a railroad's own track repair equipment. RR crossings are no place to be asleep at the wheel, too proud/arrogant to follow directions, or to take a chance. Weight x Speed = Force

[@MathematicsStudent]

Sorry, weight times speed does not give you force. You may be thinking of the fact that mass times velocity gives you momentum. Force is the time derivative of momentum, and is equal to mass times acceleration.

[@1allanbmw]

I worked for Amtrak one summer in the late '80's as a car attendant. This in no way makes me a train expert. However, we did have training regarding our personal movement around rolling stock, even if it appears standing still because it can move at ANY time. Meanwhile, I have a CDL, and I've trucked in all 48 contiguous states and most of Canada. So I know something about the rules of the road. The truck driver was pulling a grain hopper, so wasn't, most likely, a professional trucker. Maybe a farmer, who has a CDL and only needs the truck for harvest. He HAD to have seen the train both when it was moving, and after it stopped since the road paralleled the track. The gates were UP and the train was STOPPED. As a driver, there isn't anything in the regs about Conductor's and red flags that I recall anyway. And she wasn't waving the flag at him either. I see railroad personal all the time exposed, on foot, near railroad crossings and NONE have ever attempted to stop me. I really didn't see her try here either. He assumed since the gates were up, train stopped, he could proceed. If it had been me? I probably wouldn't have gone. I would have tried to make eye contact, because I happen to know that train vs trucks... trucks ALWAYS lose. It would be interesting to hear if there really was a court hearing, how it was argued and played out. It could go either way, from what I saw here. I just think if I heard that train horn honking when I was crossing the tracks, I probably would have shit my pants and mashed down on the accelerator harder!! Lol

[@robertyoung3992]

@mistermodified1 he was prosecuted

[@sypesypolt7960]

Ww

[@GBR1111-x2t]

The train was stopped, gates still up, he did nothing wrong

[@mlneale1959]

@@robertyoung3992 Prosecuted doesn't mean convicted. If I were the driver I would argue the lights had quit flashing, the gates had raised, traffic was flowing and the flaggers instructions weren't clear, especially since after my truck cleared the lights began flashing, the gates came down and then the train moved. That means the crossing was working properly.

[@ericemmons3040]

@@GBR1111-x2t If the train were stopped and gates up and no one standing in the middle of the road with a red flag, I would agree with you. However, the conductor was on the road with a red flag. Obviously she is about to tell the train to proceed and wants to stop traffic. If a police officer or fireman were in the middle of the crossing, one would have to stop and wait for and obey the officer's or fireman's instructions. The conductor is a railroad official and she has control over the railroad's right of way and over vehicles that cross the tracks; it's obvious what she was doing, but the dumbass driver didn't care what she was doing and acted like an idiot.

[@dheerajrao]

I'm not from the US, but even then it is obvious that the truck driver was not at fault. The conductor could've waved the flag at him and made him stop but she just stood there watching until he passed by, then noted his number down and got him prosecuted. Nice video though. Love those P42DCs

[@Smoovious]

agreed... use the flag for the road traffic... hold it straight up... hold it straight out to the side... do SOMETHING with it other than against your pant leg. the engineer wouldn't be confused, they're trained to understand a whole set of visual signals, including arm/hand signals, and the conductors are supposed to know them as well. hold the flag out to the side for the traffic, then signal with your other arm to the train to proceed. the engineer knows better, act like it.

[@punchasaurus5330]

Let me clear a few things up for the commenters here. 1) I am a 10+ year employee of the railway. I once worked as both conductor and engineer on this same line and same service. 2) The lady conductor pictured is no longer in employ, for reasons having absolutely nothing to do with this video. 3) Anytime a train-vs-vehicle-or-person accident happens in the USA - whether at a designated crossing or not - the person/estate almost always sues, and almost always wins, regardless of the degree of stupidity that may or may not have been exhibited by the victim. For this reason, the railroads are necessarily paranoid about lawsuits, and the claims dept's force the rules dept's to write ever-more-restricting procedures, each time something happens. (USDOT/FRA also has "minimum" rules in place for public safety, but the RR co's almost always amend their safety procedures to be above and beyond FRA regs.) 4) Aforementioned catwalk of safety/liability ironically creates a situation where every little crossing defect, once reported, must immediately be reported to all trains in the area. The crossing might be working just fine as a matter of fact - maybe someone called it in because one light bulb looked orange-ish instead of red, or because some random motorist "felt like" the gates went sooner than they "normally do". I'm not saying that's the case in this video - I'm just saying that's the reality in general. The railroad has to treat every crossing call sort of like a terrorist threat - even if it's from John Q Random, and whether it's legitimate or not, it must be treated seriously, until a railroad signalman arrives on scene to verify the situation. 5) Off the cuff, from my past 10 years of operating, I would estimate the following percentages of validity of gate-malfunction reports. a: 35%, legit report, one gate missing/broken; b: 50%, no apparent malfunction at all, just some asshole called it in (I guess they're mad bro cause they got stuck for a train), c: 5%, total activation failure/total detection failure (gates always up or gates always down); d: 10%, crossing intentionally taken out of service for maintenance. 6) Let me reiterate bullet point #5. That phone number is on the shanty for a reason, but don't abuse it. Literally half the malfunction reports are bullshit. Don't be a bullshit reporter. If a train comes thru and no warning is given from the lights/gates, absolutely report it. If there's a surprise derailment or fire or dangerous condition near the crossing, then yes report it. If a stopped train blocks a crossing LONGER THAN 10 MINUTES - YES, IN GENERAL, THEY ARE ALLOWED AT LEAST THAT LONG - then yes report it. If it took an extra minute or two after the train passed before the gates came up, and no other trains seem to be visible, then sorry buddy that sucks, but guess you shoulda' left a little earlier. 7) The crossing malfunction pictured in the video was a minor one, and really should have been an "item 2" in RR parlance. On the CP, that would mean to proceed not exceeding 15mph, without stopping, and to blow the whistle regardless of any quiet zone. This procedure varies slightly among the different RR co's, but the gist is the same. 8) The train in the video was issued an "item 1", meaning stop and protect crossing, no matter what. That is what ultimately led to the ridiculous and unsafe situation you saw. This wasn't the fault of the dispatcher or really of any railway employee. Again we go back to the overbearing liability/safety-first stuff. The dispatcher merely instructed the train to take the safest course based on the limited information (s)he had at the time. The initial report came from some civvie who didn't really know what they were talking about, and a signalman hadn't had a chance to get there yet. 9) Flagging crossings, as a passenger train, sucks. The engineer/driver is normally all alone on the locomotive, because the conductor is back in the passenger section to handle people/tickets/paperwork/etc. If a freight train stops to flag a crossing, the conductor is able to dismount the engine in an instant, and be on the ground before the gates have a chance to go back up. Not the case with passenger, where the conductor has to get off from the first passenger car and walk up several hundred feet - which is usually just time enough for the gate circuit to time-out and for the crossing barriers to be re-raised. For obvious reasons, motorists tend to get confounded when they see gates come down, then back up again, with no train passing in the time between. That's totally fine, and that confusion is the reason why these safety procedures are a bit shit. 10) This is the main reason why I absolutely loathe bullshit crossing reports. The train has to do the most safety-conscious thing as instructed (in this case, stop and flag, even though not really necessary), again, because of the liability-anxiety complex. Most motorists are quite loath to stop at crossings at all, and I've nearly been run over plenty of times, even when I wore a safety vest (not typically required, btw) and held the red flag out at a horizontal angle to the street. I've often had the feeling whilst standing out there: "so public safety is important, but not mine?" I got over that after some years. It would honestly be safer for both the flagman and motorist(s) if the crossing was completely non-functional. It would at least make a little sense to drivers that way. But again, "safety safety safety" 11) In conclusion, a fucked-up, confusing situation prevails for all involved, basically because of a long history of irresponsible people and lawyers. But, if you're at a RR crossing and you're seeing some weird shit go down and you're not sure: better advice is probably still to just stay put - at least until you can reasonably figure it out.

[@johnsimmons5951]

Punchasaurus thanks for the clear explanation. The issue of the courts not protecting the train operators when people have acted contrary to the signals etc is mad.

[@dalewilliams6405]

Rye rye jut

[@todw5508]

I hear ya, man. I used to live near the Caltrain line between SF and San Jose. Lots of grade xings and a parallel 4 lane road. The Mtn View station is barely 50 yards from a major crossing, and the gates time out every time for the NB trains. When the trains start up, those engineers either lay on the horns or do a lot of short blasts to clear the crossing. And yet there seemed to be weekly fender benders. Why folks think that trains can stop on a dime is beyond me. Thank you for your detailed explanation. My hat's off to every railroad worker, especially those who have to put up with asshat drivers in a hurry. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@lexifillems]

I love US-American railways but what you write makes me happy I actually drove trains in Germany. similar system but without too many lawyers.

[@JamesCook-u9h]

Did you read the entire novel?​@@johnsimmons5951

[@pkranz937]

For whatever the reason, #8 had to flag the crossing. They did. The semi was required to stop for the stop sign, which he barely did. His was not on a designated truck route. DOT regulations require the truck driver to look for trains at any railroad crossing, regardless of crossing protection. Clearly, there was a train. With one person in the cab of #8, the engineer relies on the flagperson to make his move. He cannot see the truck until its right in front of him. Bottom line - the train and crew did exactly what the law requires. The truck driver was off route, rolled through the stop sign, then disregarded the flagperson and ran the crossing. The guy is done, and the video is probably what did or will convict him. I was a freight engineer on this route, and now a local cartage driver very familiar with Winona.

[@justforever96]

What part did he "roll through a stop sign"? I very clearly see him come to a full stop and then turn left, probably after noting that the train was NOT moving, and the gates were NOT down. Because he was paying attention to traffic and making his turn he failed to see the flagman until he was pretty well committed to his turn. I also don't see any reason the engineer couldn't see the truck; there are windows all around the cab, and he can use them. There was nothing dangerous about this.

[@uncledeadlythefirst]

Well, i'd have been screwed, I've never seen that before and since they weren't waving the flag I probably would have gone too.

[@MegaSnow121]

Really???

[@matthewwilson5019]

That crew member was waving the flag and that truck driver is completely stupid, well unless the crew member actually let the truck cross

[@1956Bluedragonfly]

The flag may have been for the train.

[@marcusrichardson1460]

Same. I’ve never heard or seen this in my entire life .

[@jonperelstein2480]

@@matthewwilson5019 I'm curious where you saw the crew member waving the flag WHEN THE TRUCK WENT THROUGH. On my computer, she's just standing there holding the flag down by her side. That is NOT waving a flag. This video would be the perfect defense if anybody tried to give the truck driver a ticket.

[@rockchickvw]

Yes, the gate that I am standing by is the one that had just been hit causing the track bulletin and Amtrak to be flagged. And yeah, they usually accelerate pretty fast. After seeing all these private cars go by, I want to go on one!

[@LadyJoJoDmn]

I have traveled on The Empire builder. Very nice train and crews. No complaints. I love traveling Amtrak. It suits my needs as a handicapped person and my desire to see the country. Thanks for posting.

[@randomhuman805]

My friend from school was struck by a train about 2 months ago. He was biking with his friends. The tracks where too sets of tracks meaning 2 trains could come at the same time. In this case it was 2 trains. He saw one train thinking it was safe to cross. He didn’t see the other train right behind it and was hit. This happened in Wauwatosa Wisconsin. He was in the hospital for about 2 to 3 weeks. He had lots of broken bones.

[@jimbecker5731]

Why do so many people confuse to, too and two? Don't they get this in grammar school?

[@FiveBlackFootedFerrets]

Public schools... Not what they used to be.

[@thunder6076]

I was wondering why there was a flag person as the gates seemed to be working but maybe they were erratic. The train could have inched up slowly and crossed the tracks. That is a beautiful Amtrak train! Wish I had been on it. Nice tracks too. Thanks for the vid! Good vid!

[@Smoovious]

That's a DOT regulation... as a truck driver, once I start my motion over the tracks, I am not allowed to stop, I am not even allowed to change gears, so long as any part of my truck is fouling the crossing. If I did so, I would be charged. The reasoning behind it is, that a train crossing is so dangerous to a truck, that taking the chance of missing a gear, shifting on the crossing, stalling out, and getting stuck on the tracks (since we can't exactly get out and push) ...

[@stonemagic540]

ABSOLUTLY !!!!

[@13Bull13]

You can shift while rolling over railroad tracks but you cannot shift if you are hauling hazardous material. That’s the regulation. Because if you were hauling hazmat you would’ve stopped as you approached the tracks with gates up then you would have to select the correct gear to clear the Crossing without shifting. If you’re not hauling hazmat you do not have to stop for railroad tracks and therefore if you need to shift you can.

[@rockchickvw]

Yes, CP knew to put a flag bulletin for the crossing since it had just happened. The local was working right near this crossing when a different semi hit the gate and messed it up. Amtrak was the very next train through...within minutes. Sorry, but I don't think any railroad can get something fixed like that within minutes of it happening. Also, why does sex have to be a factor in this? I'm sorry, but I believe her. Thanks for commenting. Have a nice day.

[@dalehuntington9402]

The flag men did his job. Train stopped .

[@myk602010]

​@@dalehuntington9402, truck didn't.

[@dalehuntington9402]

Thank u dale

[@MrYfrank14]

how can you say the truck came flying around the corner , when he is at a complete stop at 2:17?

[@big9inch0]

so

[@henrycoats2202]

Not only was he at a complete stop, they flagged he to come around.

[@bobhollabaugh8044]

love the trains...took a train trip from Bakersfield, CA to Tacoma,WA several years back....loved it.

[@PreNeanderthal]

Don't know much about American railways(roads) but the whole thing looked bloody amateurish to me. She kept her flag down, which appeared she wasn't ready to stop the traffic, instead of raising it and making her instructions clear. And someone has posted that the trucker should have waited till she flagged him clear. How do you flag someone clear with a red flag?

[@southwestfan7060]

I've never seen anyone actually wave the flag like she did in this video. I think the flagger just needs to walk into the crossing with the flag to stop traffic, I don't believe there is anything special with the flag. They then usually just hold their arm out, using hand signals to stop traffic. I have seen a person hold the flag out to the side of their body, or at the height of their chest while doing this. After the train goes by (given the flagger is hired, not riding on the train) they just walk to the side of the road, and wave the traffic by with their arm, in a circular motion. (That's what I've seen at least) I agree it does look amateur as you said, but I can't for the life of me find any online resource stating how to actually do it.

[@matthewwilson5019]

@@southwestfan7060 seems like in the video that the crew probably used some singleing they came up with. With her waveing the flag it lets the engineer know to start moving

[@southwestfan7060]

@@matthewwilson5019 I think you’re probably right, I’ve just never seen that before!

[@matthewwilson5019]

@@southwestfan7060 nor have I honestly, so I'm just taking a big guess lol

[@austindarrenor]

The semi driver's wife was at home telling him she wasn't wearing any panties.

[@Smoovious]

the gates timed out and came back up when the sensors detected the train was no longer in motion... at the time the truck started its turn to cross the tracks, the gates were NOT down, and the lady had not started to flag the grade crossing yet. notice how after the truck went through, THEN, she starts flagging the crossing, and when the sensors detect the train is in motion again, the gates come back down.

[@alejandrayalanbowman367]

She was poorly positioned for flagging that crossing. She gave no indication to the truck driver that he was to stop.

[@66kprdwd]

There may have been a Stop & Warn in effect for that crossing due to some defect in the crossings gates/lights.

[@normanmcgill9532]

Just watched this again. The flag person never used the flag to try and stop the truck. They gave no signal to the truck what so ever. The flag was used to signal the train which leads me to believe that the flag person did not know what the flag was to be used for. So you have the train stopped, the gates up and a flag person not signaling with the flag to stop. Looks like a "go" to me.

[@e952ct]

Thank you, logic and reasoning seem to be lost on many people commenting here.

[@ffjsb]

Yeah, she didn't use the flag, but she gave him the "look"... The truck driver must not be married...

[@ВладимирСаратов-б7к]

+ffjsb well said

[@tobycameron317]

She's standing in the middle of the road with the flag displayed, if not actually waved. The semi came right AT her, forced her off the road. Does the semi driver need a fucking engraved invitation to understand that he wasn't supposed to make the crossing?!

[@jamespurks1694]

Tough call here. Under DOT (Dept of Transportation) rules all trucks must stop at RR crossings. The truck did stop. However, the crossing arms were up, the train was at a complete stop and her flag was still rolled up. I never came across this situation before.

[@MrJoeairman2000]

If the train is not moving or no train present, there is no law against going around a crossing arm. The "conductors" flagging was unclear.

[@Phoenixknight79]

that lady didn't look happy when that trucker kept going.... but why did they flag the train when the signals worked fine.

[@ryandriscoll7345]

+Steven Bruni Read the fucking description.

[@Maxvolume123]

+Ryan Driscoll woah calm down there cowboy and atleast be polite about it.

[@keyboardwarrior327]

Not everyone works for the railroad company and has extensive knowledge of the signal meanings, flag meanings, and terminology.

[@cooldude2251]

lol

[@canoeguy]

RR crossing gates go up if the train the "trips" them does not pass in the set time (there are sensors that can tell). There is a chance the signals don't go down right away and you don't want traffic going infront of a moving train. That is why a flagger is there

[@Smoovious]

well, us truckers (flatbedders, anyways) usually keep their own reflective vests in the truck with them, for times when we need to be easily visible and attract notice, like for when I have to pick up and drop off somewhere curbside, or at a customer where (un)loading is done by crane. When I do a street (un)load, I flag the traffic while the (un)loaders work. If I'm standing there with my flag at my side, traffic is clear to move. When I need them to stop? I wave my flag and then step out.

[@bahn2452]

Maybe they don't operate according to GCOR (General Code of Operating) where this video was taken but I feel this video should be titled "How to incorrectly perform a crossing protection when required to flag through a grade crossing." I operate for a commuter rail line. When there is a crossing protection and it requires personnel to flag a train through this could have been done better. First, Why did you stop about a car length away?? Get your locomotive up there close (Not actually on the crossing of course). People are going to assume that the train isn't going to begin proceeding anytime soon. At least where I operate the crossing gates (If working properly) Won't time out or won't time out as fast if the locomotive is right there. You don't want the gates to go up if you can help it. If the person that is going to flag the train through is getting off the train this distance will add more time and confusion. Second, the conductor doesn't have any kind of high visibility vest on. Yes she has a red flag but she just kind walks out there no hand signals or anything. She just kind of stands there like, "Oh you're gonna go now? Really??" Have some authority when you walk out into that road. Make sure these people know you want them to stop. Maybe the truck driver didn't see the conductor at first. There are no horns or bells when the truck starts across the tracks, and she isn't making any hand/signal indications that she wants the traffic to stop. What do people expect the truck to do? Stop partially in the crossing? Back up? Truck driver probably thought the conductor would continue across the road. When the train does finally begin to move what horn sequence is that?? It's not a sequence 7. Like I said maybe they have a different set of rules and codes they follow where the video takes place but still I feel the truck driver isn't the only stupid one in the video. Anyone interested after being bored to death by me and want to find more information the GCOR Seventh Edition, Section 6-16, 6.32 Road Crossings. Section 5-8, 5.8 Bell and Whistle Signals. If I was the truck driver I would have pressed for prosecution against Amtrak and their poor handling of the crossing protection and their violations to the code and rules.

[@jasonsmith6408]

the flag person gave the semi driver no direction..was just standing there. gates up,Train stopped.

[@ericswart4126]

+Jason Smith Indeed, how is the truck driver supposed to know she's trying to get run over with her horrible flagging skills and no safety vest., she could have been crossing the road for some other reason.

[@cooltechstuff4387]

For all he new it looked like there was a tree next to him so he might have not seen the train and thought she was doing something else

[@granthuff2716]

And NOW you know why you will NEVER be able to get a job on a railroad, or any job requiring common sense!

[@markdm4805]

Ok I had to watch this video several times to render why I'd give the truck driver a citation and yes after reviewing the video I would give the truck driver a citation. It is true the conductor had not yet flagged the crossing but as the truck rounded the corner the horn sounded. By law if a train horn sounds and the train is within 1500 ft of a crossing you must stop. This is regardless to rules requiring buses or trucks hauling hazmat to automatically stop. So yes I would give the truck a ticket.

[@Average_Joe87]

@@JeremiahTrane Let me know how that goes and how long is your prison sentence. Bitch please, you'd rather risk your freedom over running a railroad conductor over because you believe that you don't need to yield?

[@vex-nh]

I agree with most of the others, the truck driver did nothing wrong. The signals were not flashing and the gates were not down and the conductor was not signalling anyone to stop. She was holding a red flag but not displaying it. I probably would have driven through the crossing too. There is a crossing without lights or arms not far from where I live, the conductor always holds the flag straight out and signals traffic. One would assume the train is not ready to move if the flag is not held out. The trucker could have used this video in defense. The conductor no doubt lied about displaying the flag and the truck driver had no evidence to contradict it.

[@vex-nh]

+AmtrakSuperFan 393 Emergency vehicles have priority, everything else has right-of-way. The train was stopped, the conductor was not signalling anyone, that gives the semi the right-of-way. The conductor signaled after the semi passed. If anything, the train crew needs better training. They don't appear to know what they're doing. No gates were down at the time the truck crossed.

[@vex-nh]

+AmtrakSuperFan 393 The unions protect people that don't know what they're doing, as shown in this video. The conductor wasn't signalling anyone. If anything, she was jaywalking. You absolutely have to signal if you intend for people to stop since the train itself was stopped. A stopped train is no different than a parked car, neither has right-of-way.

[@bill65761]

These hand signals were developed in a day before 2-way radios and remain in current use because there are times when the radio channel is too busy to convey instructions safely, when radios break, and there are times when you don't want everyone for 5 miles knowing that you are stopping for coffee. The hand signals allow communication over distance and in most inclement weather and save a LOT of walking back and forth.

[@ApolloWasReal]

I can see how the truck driver might have been confused. The train is stopped, the gates are intact but up, and it's not at all clear what the conductor wants with her flags down.

[@e952ct]

+ApolloWasReal The hardcore railway stalkers seem to have issues understanding that type of logic and reasoning.

[@ApolloWasReal]

e952ct I'm not a railfan, but calling them "hardcore railway stalkers" is a bit strong. As long as they stay off railroad property and don't interfere with their operations, they're harmless.

[@OhioInvestigator]

Folks, if you don't know how railroad Track Circuits work, you are wasting your time commenting here. The Amtrak train approaches the crossing, the bells, lights and gates are activated, THEN the train stops. WHY? We don't know. Then, the bells, lights and gates are deactivated (the Track Circuit went into "time-out." So, why did the Amtrak person (Conductor?) get off the train to flag the crossing? WHY! The warning devices were working! The truck driver did nothing wrong! He stopped!

[@TheGarylee66]

I have to defend the truck driver. This isn't a situation that most anyone comes across. He comes to a complete stop, sees the train stopped and the barriers up. He sees a woman crossing the street, but he has no idea she is a conductor, so he is timing his crossing to allow her to cross when she stops in the crossing. By that time, he is already in the intersection, so what's he to do? If the railroad wants to stop traffic at a crossing that may be malfunctioning, give the conductor a hand held STOP sign like they use with school crossing guards and be sure you are displaying it prominently as you make your way into the crossing. This conductor didn't do that, so I blame her.

[@e952ct]

This guy hit the nail on the head. But I guess these people here with PH Ds in Trainology know better.

[@mattressing4843]

I could not smelled a bigger heaping pile of shit than that, she is obviously dressed in formal clothes and has a conductor cap on and she has a radio and a red flag, obviously it is not just some lady crossing the road.

[@TheRealScooterGuy]

A stop sign would be better, but a CDL holder should know what the red flag means, even if the driving public does not.

[@justforever96]

I don't think he even saw the flagman, just the halted train and the gates up. He would have had to look across his cab and back in order to see the front of the train, so I doubt he even noticed her. Basically everyone is making a bigger deal out of this than it warrants. I'd say the truck started making a turn before they tried to close the road, really, and they weren't in susch a hurry that they were going to make him stop halfway done his turn, so they did the logical thing and let him keep going with a little toot of the horn to remind him to look closer next time. I don't think anyone was really very lax in their job here.

[@granthuff2716]

He had no idea she was a Conductor? Did you just make that statement? She was wearing an Amtrak uniform. She had an Amtrak hat on her head, AND, she was standing on a railroad right-of-way? What did you think she was? A hairdresser? Are you for real? It doesn't matter whether she was a Conductor, Assistant Conductor, Trainman, Flagman, Whatever. It was OBVIOUS that she was a railroad employee. And she was 100 feet away from a passenger train (That was that large thing with a light on the front, a clanging bell, and a loud horn riding on railroad tracks! DUH! Can you not add 1 + 1 and come up with 2?

[@vincente9456]

What I don't understand is why did the gates go up when the train was so close to the crossing? Any train I've ever seen in that position even when stopped the gates would always remain down. Also, why did the gates go down once the train got even closer to the crossing? Seems to me if the train is that close going at the required speed a vehicle going over the tracks would have no time to react and get hit. It makes me think that the crossing gates are malfunctioning. The truck driver should have waited and asked the conductor for advise on how to proceed but since the gates were up I see only a minor infraction.

[@gr8guitarplayer]

She just stood there as the truck approached, then moved out of his way. If she wanted him to stop, she should've indicated that, clearly, which she did not. I see nothing wrong here. People commenting otherwise are just train buffs in their own world.

[@johnscott8141]

FYI A crossing at grade is an easement across private property (which is the railroad). When the conductor or any other railroad employee occupies the crossing it is the same as a train.

[@tijuanagringo]

I enjoy watching trains, and sometimes even riding on them. This is an excellent video capture of a very curious event. Thank you for sharing it.

[@darrenmichaelsen3739]

That flagger appeared as though she was crossing the street when the truck started his turn. Then she stopped in the middle of the road and proceeded to give the truck nothing more than a stare. She didn't wave her red flag at all. The truck also couldn't legally stop once he has commenced his maneuver. I say he shouldn't have been prosecuted. Why was a gate bent at a slightly irregular angle such a problem anyway. Gates are down, people should still get the idea.

[@paulweston316]

169.26 SPECIAL STOPS AT RAILROAD CROSSING. Subdivision 1.Requirements. (a) Except as provided in section 169.28, subdivision 1, when any person driving a vehicle approaches a railroad grade crossing under any of the circumstances stated in this paragraph, the driver shall stop the vehicle not less than ten feet from the nearest railroad track and shall not proceed until safe to do so and until the roadway is clear of traffic so that the vehicle can proceed without stopping until the rear of the vehicle is at least ten feet past the farthest railroad track. These requirements apply when: (1) a clearly visible electric or mechanical signal device warns of the immediate approach of a railroad train; or (2) an approaching railroad train is plainly visible and is in hazardous proximity. (b) The fact that a moving train approaching a railroad grade crossing is visible from the crossing is prima facie evidence that it is not safe to proceed. (c) The driver of a vehicle shall stop and remain stopped and not traverse the grade crossing when a human flagger signals the approach or passage of a train or when a crossing gate is lowered warning of the immediate approach or passage of a railroad train. No person may drive a vehicle past a flagger at a railroad crossing until the flagger signals that the way is clear to proceed or drive a vehicle past a lowered crossing gate.

[@Therrito]

Thank you :-)

[@JawTooth]

+Paul Weston Finally someone posts something that is of value and not just stupid conjecture.

[@lukemcgook4229]

+Paul Weston That law did NOT apply to the situation where the semi was crossing the track! 1. The signal devices were NOT engaged as required by the statute & no lights were flashing & the arms were UP. 2. The train was NOT approaching the intersection as required by the statute - because it was NOT MOVING. 3. The human flagger had NOT signaled the approach of a train--as required by the statute. She was just standing in the street. The statute had not been violated. HOW IS THE TRUCKER supposed to KNOW what the he** is going on when the lights are not flashing, the signal arms are not down, the train is stopped and some little person with a tiny flag is walking in the street????? How is the public supposed to know why a train is stopped or how long it will be there? The signal person was not wearing clothing that would readily and clearly identify her FROM A DISTANCE as a railroad employee nor was she wearing a safety vest - and again, the signal devices were NOT engaged.

[@PaulCashman]

Thanks for posting that, but as others have stated, none of those circumstances apply here. 1. The crossing signals were not activated. In fact it's likely the truck received a green light from the traffic signal after the gates went up. 2. The train was not "approaching." It was stationary. 3. There was no visible flagger present. Not only was she not using the flag to warn traffic, but she wasn't wearing a safety vest (in itself a RR safety violation). If the trucker WAS actually charged for this, he could have used this very video to show he was not guilty of a violation.

[@UberManTampa]

Gates went up, why I don't know, but if the gates are up, the train must yield the right of way or send the gates back down. Most gates are operated by the weight of the train on the tracks so why they went up in the first place is beyond beyond me

[@threynolds2]

The gates were up and the conductor just stood there. The conductor did not seem to be trying to get the truck driver's attention. How was the truck driver supposed to know that someone just standing there, not doing any flag-waving or pointing, meant he had to stop?

[@e952ct]

To those crying about the truck crossing the tracks, the truck was in the motion of proceeding across the tracks before the flagger got there and she made no effort to stop the truck from crossing before he had already crossed the tracks.

[@Nomad722]

+e952ct You have to remember there are so many 'doughnuts' on this site they are incapable of understanding anything! lol!

[@richard3365]

Once he had begun the turn there was no way for him to not complete it, as the guards would have come down on top of his truck if he had stopped.

[@matthewwilson5019]

I bet she actually let him cross as the train wasn't moving

[@algrayson8965]

@@richard3365- No excuse for ignoring a flagger.

[@PISQUEFrancis]

@@algrayson8965 the driver may have thought she was not ready to stop traffic, since she didn't really show the flag ... at the time the truck began making the turn, she was just stepping onto the crossing, the truck then stop(as if the driver was trying to figure out if she was going to stop traffic?), then continued again, while she held the flag DOWN, and against her leg ... QUITE THE "IFFY", SITUATION. I'm reasonably certain that IF he was prosecuted, that had he known there was a video, that the video would show the situation to be not so absolute.

[@rj4590]

With all the grade crossing accidents caused by truckers it's good to know this one was prosecuted before he caused one.Nice private car on the rear.

[@Smoovious]

Absolutely. A flagger, isn't a flagger, until they're waving their damned flag. All she was at that point was a person wearing clothes and holding a red scarf. She doesn't just get to walk out and expect everyone to immediately stop. She has to first, ascertain if the traffic is clear (it wasn't), and if it was, THEN walk out and flag the train through. Just like trains, trucks don't stop on a dime, and we have our own regulations we have to follow. She was sloppy.

[@TheShanampan]

Truck driver: ooh a flagger in the middle of the road,must be safe to drive over then!

[@doctadeath2020]

Must be an interesting truck regulation that says keep driving when people are in the road. Will you get fired if you point that one out for us? Either he wasn't looking both ways while turning, wasn't looking at all, or just plain being incompetent. All of the above deserve prosecution.

[@ottdog1952]

Silly comment.

[@TheAustinSubRailfan]

That’s definitely a beautiful K5LA Horn on 121! Back when most P42’s on Amtrak had Narrow font K5LA’s and they were all healthy Not to mention the Fresh Phase Vb paint as well!

[@superduty7979]

@motos The train crew was probably told their was an activation failure for this crossing. Even though it appeared to be working when they approached the crossing, they're still required to stop and flag it. I am a conductor as well and I really think she did a very poor job of flagging this crossing. The trucker was probably watching traffic on his left side to make the right turn and did not see her until he had already pulled under the gates. I would not have reported his tag.

[@001looker]

If i was driving there i would have ignored you regardless as i do not recognize you as authority.

[@jjrrhh1983]

@@001looker smh

[@skipdow3]

@@001looker You simply show your stupidity. The railroad OWNS the right of way. You get to cross ONLY with their permission , which is when the gates are up. Who cares what you recognize-- you are stupid. That right of way has probably been owned by the railroad for close to 100 years. Look it up Dummy. You are 100% wrong. If they did not own the right of way from years ago, there would be no trains today. Again --look it up.

[@jijzer4581]

For what i can see she does not give the truck a signal to stop. She is not flagging only standing there with the flag down.

[@Sweetw4ter]

in the eye of the law standing on a crossing with a flag is already flagging

[@iansutton3176]

Why did the train stop and the conductor get out with his flag when the gates were already closed for the train to go over the crossing!!!

[@shanenorman8774]

Something might have been wrong with the gates so they flagged it to be safe

[@myk602010]

@@shanenorman8774 There was and that's what everyone is missing here...read the the accompanying paragraph everyone.

[@The_Original_forresttrump]

The gate is bent in the beginning, it was hit and they have to flag.

[@myk602010]

@@rayjennings3637 okay the way I figure it from what it says, another truck hit a gate early on and probably put the whole system out of whack. I think what makes this situation special is that the road parallel to the track is unique in that traffic turns right at the crossing. Perhaps that's the side that was damaged by the earlier driver. So the engineer had to treat that intersection as though no one had come to address the problem yet. The things weren't working properly and he could not assume that the gates would stay down so he had to stop and have the conductor go out there as protocol would dictate. I think everyone should read most of the comments because there are a couple of guys here who have a perfect explanation as to what the conductor is expected to do in this situation. The mere fact that she had that red flag in her possession, even though she wasn't waving it, was enough to tell people that they could not cross until she let them. But at the end of the day, how many years ago now, the truck driver was found to have violated everything in the book and was prosecuted. His appeal was denied. Sayonara.

[@davidalmazanferretiz6079]

For security does. It's a passengers train.

[@Smoovious]

is an intolerable situation. From what I saw on the side, the truck driver started his motion, while the train was stopped, the gates were up, and the flagger was not yet on the street. He was committed to his action, and continued through, tho since she tried to block him for a second before wisely letting him pass, I do believe he may have had to downshift or hit the clutch, violating DOT regs, so he didn't run her over. He wasn't at fault for this.

[@rockchickvw]

Actually, it was NOT an exercise. I just happened to hear that there was a gate problem at this crossing and decided to check it out. It was all very real. These are the kind of things that happen all the time. Thankfully no one got hurt and hopefully people can learn from something like this.

[@skipdow3]

Is there some reason the gate is going up and down ? The public is not the brightest, but the gate going up and down makes it worse.

[@rockchickvw]

Actually, if you watch, they did pull up into the circuit, but the gates went back up. The gates were screwed up and that is the whole reason for the flagging taking place. They probably could have pulled up a little closer to the crossing but still.

[@kellymc239]

For everyone who wonders why the truck driver is being dumb: The video (at 2:27) shows an assistant-conductor standing in the intersection with a (very noticeable) red signal flag. The rules of the road in all the states I've driven in (38) clearly state that "when a crossing is under control by a railroad employee with a flagging device, all motorists shall stop until flagged clear to proceed across the railroad tracks." The a/conductor was clearly in the roadway BEFORE the truck turned right to cross the tracks. So, the driver should have stopped before proceeding. The train horn also sounded twice as the truck turned, but before he crossed the rails. The trucker should have waited for an all-clear by the a/conductor. As a former truck driver, I'd like to side with him on this, but the rules clearly say to wait until flagged clear to proceed.

[@sspence65]

that crossing was not under control. she was just standing there with her thumb up her ass.

[@cellogirl11rw55]

It says in the description that the driver was prosecuted.

[@myk602010]

@@cellogirl11rw55 That proves that some of us can READ.

[@tommytruth7595]

@@cellogirl11rw55 All b.s. There was nothing to prosecute him for.

[@nrthchrlt5]

@@@tommytruth7595 Three moving violations observed. A city cop should have been called. At the very least, the company owning the cargo should have been notified. Companies have explicit rules regarding RR crossings. What was seen on the video, there was sufficient grounds for dismissal.

[@matthewmiller6068]

very confusing there...didn't see them directing anything. even the incompetant road crews hold up hands or wave directions to indicate what traffic should do. hope if they did try and do anything to the truc that he had a dash cam to prove he was never directed to stop and the gates were up.

[@e952ct]

I was thinking the conductors needs to go back to flagging school before they're allowed to drive a choochoo around.

[@akaSlasher]

2:15 -- Flagger enters crossing. All vehicles must stop. No signal required. The flagger does not direct vehicle traffic. Put another way, the flagger is a human red light until she has gone. She will not signal vehicles to do anything.

[@chuckatack]

She isn't flagging a car race so she doesn't need to wave the flag. The flag in her hand is all she needs to stop traffic. No jumping up and down, no waving it or pointing with it, just a visible red flag which is the same as a traffic light. It means stop and wait til she is not visible at the crossing.

[@akaSlasher]

@@chuckatack Thank you. Precisely what I wrote, but more loquacious. I suppose I was too terse.

[@chuckatack]

@@akaSlasher no not at all lol just trying to get the point across to the other commenters. I understood your comment but wasn't surs if some of the others did by reading their comments

[@robertyoung3992]

@@chuckatack and the truck damned near hit her

[@Smoovious]

they stopped? where? perhaps the truck driver pushed them out of the way as he continued after stopping, to make his turn to go over an, as yet, unflagged, open crossing? Watch carefully as they both move. Truck driver, sees crossing open. Checks left, checks forward, checks right, then checks left again as he pulls out into the clear intersection, turning onto the clear crossing, watching his trailer clearance, and his front corner for traffic. A truck driver has to look everywhere at once...

[@nukemman]

Did I miss something? Where was the "stupid semi"?

[@myk602010]

Ya you did, @ 2:27.

[@sspence65]

@@myk602010 Nothing wrong at 2:25

[@myk602010]

@@sspence65 Read the accompanying paragraph under the video. You said "where was the stupid semi" and I pointed that out to you. A previous semi bent the crossing arm, as you can see it coming down it's bent @ 0:34. They had to have the conductor come out and control traffic til the train crossed. @1:53 you can see the gate go back up and the conductor come to the crossing. But the 'stupid semi' driver decided he wasn't going to wait and turns right in front of her.

[@sspence65]

@@myk602010 you pointed out nothing. she didn't flag him, she wasn't in control.

[@googoo-gjoob]

@@myk602010 , gates were working. train was stopped. conductor was not assertive & gave ZERO instruction. she was out of her league. truck driver saw stopped train with gates up & clueless Jane standing in the street. tell her to go home & bake cookies.

[@charlesnelson4609]

The Indian Railways operate this type of highly advanced coaches and Engin to reach the destination in time. CONGRATULATION TO THE ENGIN AND COACH MANUFACTURING COMPANY 🙏🙏⚘👌👍

[@rockchickvw]

Yes. A semi had gone through previous to this and bent the gate.

[@anthonydesroches785]

I live in granite city the only city in the world that u cannot enter or leave without going over railroad tracks. I drove for rail crew. I seen and heard lots of stories. We had a hard driver now how he still drove for the company and the northfolk southern allowed him to drive is beyond me and how he had a driver's license is shocking and scary but they called him, "backem up bill" because this guy ran into trains that where just sitting their. Had one driver ran her van backwards down a hill into a lake and sunk it in winter time. One guy killed himself and two crews by stopping his van on the tracks committed suicide.

[@feliciasmith3808]

To : rockchickvw, That was a stupid move for that truck driver, I'm glad that women got his license plate and she was trying to signal that Trucker to stop and I now he heard the Amtrak train horn blasting loud? stupid move on his part and hope he gets a heavy fine and lose his job for not responding the signal for him to stop!! Lots of hugs and kisses for that Amtrak women for doing her job

[@rockchickvw]

Well, I haven't really railfanned the Twin Cities much. I have gone by a few of the yards... Pig's Eye Yard is a popular spot.

[@MrMitchellw16]

Pigs Eye Yard rocks! There are so many cool spots to view it from. From up on the Mounds Park bluffs to the pedestrian bridge over the north entry and many others. Easy to spot CP, UP, BNSF, and Amtrak daily. Might even get lucky and spot some Mississippi river barges working too!

[@MrCjh69]

That semi didn't come flying around the corner. It made a complete stop before proceeding. No one tried to stop the truck. What about the cars that crossed, oh that's legal, but for the semi its illegal.

[@clintwilde1048]

There was a time when railroaders were expected to get on the train while it was still moving at a speed just above a fast walk. Part of the training and job description.

[@lexifillems]

Dark times.

[@bill65761]

I worked for the railroad, as a brakeman and conductor, for 11 years and never heard of this reflective vest you are talking about. I certainly flagged my share of crossings and also worked as pilot in a number of situations (mostly on behalf of construction crews working on overpasses). Never saw one of those vests. That lady on the crossing was not the conductor. Nor, considering what a lousy job she did flagging, is it likely she was even a trainman.

[@leoja4578]

Technically the lorry was legally allowed to cross as the gates were up.

[@freewill1114]

+Leo Tapp And the truck too! lol

[@leoja4578]

freewill1114 :D

[@eiserntorsphantomoftheoper2154]

Still on floor laughing....Too Funny.. Silly Brits

[@leoja4578]

Ima Tumor Silly? How am I silly? I made a point.

[@Smoovious]

I saw no such hand signal, until after the truck went through... and if she did give the engineer a signal that I didn't see, when the grade crossing wasn't secure and properly flagged, then that's another thing she did wrong. Secure the crossing first, properly flagged... THEN signal the engineer to proceed.

[@user-zc6ul8nv1j]

Hopefully the truck driver got off. I've never seen anything like this before. The gates are up, the train is stopped, the dude sees other cars going so he figures he's supposed to do the same. So he approaches because he figures he's supposed to go, and then instead of stopping him the fucking train lady keeps her flag down and steps out of his way! She's the one who compromised everybody's safety by giving conflicting instructions.

[@ReflectedMiles]

Good thing the semi-driver didn't have a decent lawyer if that prosecution was successful. The signals and arms were working fine, they weren't activated, and the flagger was giving no clear direction. If Amtrak pursued that prosecution, all of the costs of the court and the taxpayers to accommodate them (prosecutor's office, etc.) following the acquittal should be billed back to Amtrak (maybe with an order to improve training / procedures).

[@sirMAXX77]

Wow... I just don't understand people with not a lick of common sense, it's like they can't be bothered to think, cause it takes too much energy to process a conductor in the intersection of a railroad crossing with a red flag in hand and a train barely a 100 feet away, stopped on the tracks. I guess someone needs to take some time off to go back to truck driving school.

[@juneshopper]

I saw crossings flagged when I was going to Chi a couple of years ago. They were doing track work and gates were not operating, so asst conductor got out and walked from crossing to crossing with a flag to stop traffic for train to pass. First time I had ever seen it and I rode a lot of trains starting as a kid with parents on Dad's RR pass.

[@MrSubmariner13]

I didn't see s stupid semi driver. I saw a person standing there with a red flag doing absolutely nothing. I guess the truckers ESP was off that day.

[@Westcountrynordic]

@Foo Dog Racing I guess that the trucker doesn't know that the law says a red flag or flare at a level crossing means stop.

[@e952ct]

@@Westcountrynordic mayhe she should have been using the flag, not meander into the crossing with the flag pointed at the ground.

[@scottkelm7756]

That's an old one. I saw the Sierra Hotel parked in the shop area of the Royal Gorge RR in September of 2023.

[@Cryptonymicus]

When you get to a railroad crossing and there's a human being standing in the middle of the roadway that's your first clue that something unusual is going on and maybe you should fucking stop until you are signaled to proceed.

[@e952ct]

the truck is moving before she stands in the middle of the road.

[@jimscott2872]

Well if you live in the Chicago area that would completely normal! Dousch Bag!

[@jessstone7486]

Interesting. Thx for the story on this. I couldn't see that the semi did a thing wrong, until reading on. Still, the gates weren't down, so - - ??? how was he to know? I see this is a 15 yr old video: look at all those cars on the Builder! nothing close to that now in '24. And it's always cool to see a special - big coin to hook up to Amtrak, for a pull! I'd enjoy that, immensely.

[@maxh1131]

better training might be offered to Amtrak employees in how to display a stop signal for traffic.. when the truck went across, she didn't seem to be indicating that the driver should stop.

[@P42_foamer]

I like how the engineer blew the horn at the truck who did not have permission to cross

[@foxthorne]

She should of raised the flag up over her or had a stop sign on her when she stepped on the road, that would of stop traffic. She/they don't know -.-

[@g8ymw]

+foxthorne I doubt it. There will always be someone chancing it. A couple of things we have here in Britain are. For small stations with a level crossing, we have staggered platforms so the trains stop after the level crossing Although we have half barrier crossings, the main roads have barriers to block both sides of the road

[@paulne1514]

Agree. If I had seen RR lights and gates, I would assume they would work. Train was stopped back when he came by.

[@jamest1148]

At least the conductor had enough sense to get out of the way of the truck. Whether he had the right way or not, she wasnt about to stop a 40,000 lb. truck with her body. Good for her.

[@im1who84u]

Why did the train stop in the first place? Everything seemed to be in order to me.

[@gfd1166]

Read the description... a truck had damaged the crossing arm.

[@gr8dfender742]

@@gfd1166 "stupid semi" does not indicate a broken gate wise ass

[@loft306]

Malfunctioning gates

[@myk602010]

@@gr8dfender742 read the accompanying paragraph dumbass.

[@anthonythorp7291]

Watertown Wisconsin the train going through was required to do the same. Had crossing lights but no guards. Stupidest thing I ever seen.

[@bill65761]

No. He was confirming the hand signal she had given him. There is a whole lot of communication here that Joe Blow isn't going to be able to read. It's not that it's deliberately hidden ... it's just that most folk aren't trained in that language. As a conductor I could tell the engineer to "go in the clear on track 17 and tie up for lunch" from 200 yards away. All without saying a single word. Or tell him to "get track 3 together (coupled) and then stop for a coffee break."

[@gotham61]

Thanks for the explanation, but I think it's unreasonable to expect every road user to know the arcane rules in play when there's a defective crossing that's "flagged." Most reasonable people approaching the intersection will see the gates open, bells and lights not ringing or flashing, and an employee with a red flag standing there with the flag down by their side, and assume that it's therefore safe and legal to cross.

[@fredjones7705]

Disagree. Any commercial driver SHOULD be up to date on ALL traffic laws and most private motorist as well. It's their job and there's no excuse for failing to do it right

[@dennispersson9466]

As an ex Volunteer Firefighter, we were Taught, if directing traffic at an intersection or a railroad crossing, we were to hold a flag UNROLLED and Unfolded AWAY from our body, so everyone else would KNOW you were signaling traffic to STOP, and then, when traffic was stopped, to signal the train or other traffic to cross. Holding the flag pointing down, or next to the body, was just cautionary. And that was the same with L.I.R.R. workers, and School Bus directors. Possibly, the Conductor was not well taught, or should have annual training reviews.

[@cyberdharma1020]

Anyone know why they flagged this train across? Seems like the signals work fine.

[@e952ct]

+cyber dharma the gate shown is pointing towards the train tracks, that might be the signal that was hit. If not it would have been nice if Mr. Camara Dude could have shown the wrecked gate.

[@sct913]

+cyber dharma If the train got a report of a signal/gate failure from the dispatcher, they are required to stop and flag the crossing. In NORAC rules - which AMTRAK follows - crossing malfunctions are covered by a Form D clearance. This type of thing happens on the MBTA Haverhill/Reading commuter rail line at least once a week - flagging crossings where the crossing protection seems perfectly fine. In this case, given the very short time between the second activation of the lights and gates, it is clear there was indeed a malfunction.

[@TriStateRailfan]

+e952ct no the gate pointing to the track Is just the road angle Until the very end Look at the road it's angled but the tracks are straight

[@willvazz9611]

+sct913 Hello, fellow person from the Boston area!

[@robertyoung3992]

it was flagged due to a bent crossing arm

[@TSKseattle]

They lower the gates, the train approaches, the gates open, cars start crossing. Why not keep the gates lowered until the train has passed? Seems like the vehicles were in the right.

[@jaysmith1408]

Which brings me back to why was this crossing being flagged at all when the perfectly functional gates did the job

[@Sweetw4ter]

maybe they wasnt sure it they would work correctly?

[@KB9NLL]

XxAdminChllaxX Then there would need to be 2 people one on each side of the train as the train goes through. Other wise there would be no point in stopping at all cause they worked enough to get the train started and once the train is past the road and the gates go up while the train has the entire road blocked, it's not like a car would be in front of the train. The only problem would be cars hitting the side hence the reason to have two people, one on each side assuming that the gates would go back up at some time.

[@malcolmtucker8611]

jfsa380 Maybe gates have history of malfunction.

[@myk602010]

Try reading the WHOLE paragraph.

[@robertyoung3992]

crossing gate was bent by a previous semi

[@bullettube9863]

Question: Why did the guards go back up while the train approached the crossing? Being up signaled to the auto and truck drivers that it was safe to cross, right? There obviously was something wrong with the signaling system and no "stupid semi" was at fault.

[@MovieInventor]

It seems so unnecessary. Why didn't the train just went on when the gates were closed??!

[@nolanbrey9854]

Whenever there is crossing arm failure the rule states that the crossing must be protected by flagging it. She did the right thing. The engineer also did the right thing by blowing the horn to warn the semi. We sometimes flag a crossing when everything seems to be working. .

[@weeardguy]

But, how can the crossing deactivate again? It In my country (Netherlands) the gates will drop as soon as a train enters the 'announcement' section and the gates will remain down as long as there is a train in that section (it can only be deactivated by manual intervention as far as I know). I know both countries can't be compared in this manner, but I was really surprised how fast the gates went up again just after dropping.

[@kevintumminello6776]

it was a malfunction any signal can malfunction in any country

[@areibel]

There is a separate circuit through the crossing called the island circuit. If the train stops before it's on the island the crossing will recover. Notice as soon as the train starts to move it drops again, just as it should. If the train had pulled up and stopped on the island the crossing would have remained active. There had to be a "Stop and Protect" order on the crossing, they are issued by the railroad that owns the route. Any train has to abide by that until the crossing can be inspected, repaired and returned to service.

[@weeardguy]

That's a great explanation so far, but how does the crossing circuitry know a train approaches and how does the crossing 'know' that the train has stopped while not being on the island circuit? Is there a time frame in the circuitry or something?

[@danrossell6375]

The gates went down as the train approached the crossing. The train stopped for no apparent reason at all being all was as it should have been for the train to proceed through the crossing. Error on the part of engineer and conductor (?) and whoever was controlling the gates!! Train stopped, gate went up, idiot got out of train with red flag(?) proceeded to walk to middle of intersection and made no attempt to communicate any message to any vehicle that might want to cross the tracks.

[@sjtom57]

The truck came "flying around the corner?" Please. Just making a normal turn next to an idiot holding a flag who made no move whatsoever to stop traffic.

[@snakewrithing]

So how long you been an ass?

[@seniorlife_3591]

sjtom57

[@66mariob]

What video are you watching?

[@9johnpaul]

Yea , if you watch the video the trailer truck was stopped for at least 4 seconds before it moved.

[@Mechknight73]

I don't get why it's necessary for the flagging thing at all. I'm Australian, so I don't know the finer details of US rail. In Australia, when you have crossings where this occurs a lot, there is a manual switch system, which allows you to turn the boom gates on. It's used a lot near freight yards that cross major roads. The only time a red flag is used in Australia is when there are no flashing lights on a crossing in a residential area

[@normanmcgill9532]

I don't see where the trucker did anything wrong. If the conductor wanted the truck to stop she should have waved the flag at it or signaled to it in some way. All she did was stand there and watch the truck go by. Case dismissed.

[@e952ct]

+AmtrakSuperFan 393 she wasn't in the middle of the crossing until the truck was already moving. Plus she could easily put the flag or hand up to signal to the truck to stay put, but she did the opposite. Case closed court adjourned, as always you lose. Out of curiosity though, if a train were to stop say 30 feet from a crossing w/ signals deactivated is all traffic suppose to cease movement even if its for 3 minutes, 3 hours, 3 days?

[@evad1]

I'd have to agree with you. I've directed enough traffic as a vol. firefighter over twenty+ years to know you don't hide behind that flag. You use it to communicate. And she wasn't communicating anything with the flag at her knees. By the time she raised the flag and the stopped train started blowing its horn, the truck was under where the gate would be when it came down. I'm not saying the trucker wasn't confused or partially at fault also, but to call him "stupid" isn't fair either.

[@Smoovious]

I've looked at it plenty of times... I know a reasonable amount of how trains operate, I'm not at all ignorant about their procedures, and I'm also a truck driver. I suggest you look closely... when you see the truck start to move, she is not flagging. She's just observing the truck with the flag at her side (which is not an indication to stop, and doesn't count as flagging). Your average person would interpret that as ok to proceed. She only started flagging, after the truck passed.

[@tommytruth7595]

Exactly. Case closed.

[@lawrencewheeler8868]

Nice PV on that. Why was it being flagged? Gates were functioning. Yes conductor didn't direct driver.

[@hugocadena116]

Did I miss something, where is that stupid semi ?

[@jasonfaber1463]

I believe it was that semi that passed through with the crossings up. I have no clue to what was so stupid about the Semi.

[@jamespurks1694]

Thank you for the info Brian. I thought it was for all trucks.

[@dwightstewart7181]

I agree with the others here. That semi driver did nothing wrong. The flagman gave no indication at all for anyone to stop (or the train to go), as the flagman did later in the video, nor were the crossing gales lowered, as they were later. Absent any indication at all otherwise by that flagman (with train stopped, gates up, etc), I would have crossed too. And, contrary to video description, I don’t believe this semi driver was prosecuted. For what? At most, it would have been a misdemeanor traffic offense, not criminal offense, had the flagman actually been signaling to stop (she wasn't). Notice the completely absence of any details (court location, date, charges, case number, etc) regarding that prosecution.

[@kthomas7895]

I'm assuming they fixed the problem by now, if the gates are up, no lights flashing and the train sitting still I would cross also. She made no attempt to stop the truck he was committed into the turn. Trucks must keep moving over crossings by Federal Law.

[@SF3751]

Nice vid, very rare to see this. Looks like we have found another reason why Amtrak is becoming late.

[@matthewwilson5019]

Actually railroad regs state that if a crossing arm is malfunctioning or is broken that the train has to stop and that an crew member has to flag the crossing

[@bill65761]

The point is that the train is now so close to the crossing that vehicles may not realize when it starts to move again AND the crossing gates will not activate at this point until the engine is almost into the intersection. It's a safety thing.

[@toddbarker3774]

The flag person never put the flag out to stop the semi, saw no problem here.

[@HoboRoadrunner]

Doesn't have to

[@chooch1995]

Really? If I’m driving ( truck, car....bike ) & spot a stopped train & trainman on the ground at a grade crossing- I’m changing gears ( physically & figuratively ) to adapt to a condition. If you encounter a motorist pulled over on the side of the highway, you change lanes ( or at least attempt to ) to give ample room...the same here. You don’t need the flag physically held out to understand what’s going on here.....at least most of us don’t.....

[@1312Studiocertified]

​@@chooch1995 ​ That conductor sucks at flagging, when the flag if held straight out mean "Stop" if the flag is down that means "To let traffic proceed" is she wanted him to stop the flag should have been up according to the law. This uploader is just trying to make something out of nothing for views and it worked, wouldn't surprise me if he didn't twist the get himself like others do here on youtube. CHAPTER 6E MUTCD FHWA Handbook

[@julieannanderson3625]

@@1312Studiocertified I can appreciate that people like you and I understand the flag signals, but how many other drivers do. I don't believe it's required to pass the driving exam.

[@jimpatrick5918]

The flag man never signaled for the semi to stop, but just stood there looking stupid. I am also mystified at why the train needed to stop and the need for a flag man. Train approaches, gates drop and train should proceed. This was just nonsensical.

[@lone56wolf]

Crossing protection deactivates if the crossing isn't occupied withing a set length of time. Movement must be manually protected. The Amtrak made a station stop and the circuit deactivated. Pretty much routine....

[@n9ejs29]

amen!

[@robertpradella6550]

What a beautiful train! Love the video!

[@christophersweeting512]

The truck saw the gates weren’t down after stopping and then proceeded. Not many people know what flaggers being in the crossing is for. They know gates and lights…… usually. I suppose the train had to stop because it wasn’t going the proper speed for the crossing; They will time out.