Camera Tilt - Collimation to Achieve Sharp Stars Corner to Corner - CCD Inspector - Gerd Neumann CTU

[@wandaconde3696]

Thank you Amy for putting together this excellent video. I think my imaging train also has some tilt, but I was not sure how to address it. Today I found a thread on Cloudy Nights in which some imagers were raving about the Gerd Neumann CTU and when I looked for a video tutorial on how to use it, I found this video. I already have CCD Inspector, and SGP, so all I need is get a CTU and work on it. And BTW…you are right, the astroimaging community is full of great folks who really come forward and help others. I am sure this video will help lots of people out there too!

[@AmyAstro]

Thank you so much for the kind words!

[@RaysAstrophotography]

Nice solution. Thanks Amy!

[@AmyAstro]

Thank you Ray!

[@deininde]

Amy, 1:15 a.m. and just finished a second video you've posted. I have no equipment and don't do this stuff... but I find it fascinating enough to watch you explain it all, and I've learned a LOT (also Googling many terms you use). Anyway, just thanks. It was a privilege to have had you in class and i am so happy to see continue to grow in this passion of yours. Mr. D.

[@AmyAstro]

Thank you for always supporting me Mr. D!

[@therealremo]

Good information, thank you! And for the record, my entire life I've always questioned why all the clear nites coincide with the full moon - consistently !!

[@olivierrethore9097]

This is the best tilt corrector. Good choice !

[@AmyAstro]

Thank you. It was so easy to install and use.

[@chridignan9178]

A revelation! Very helpful. Thank you, Chris. UK

[@olly7248]

Just ordered one of these, really useful video… thanks for doing this 👍🏻

[@AmyAstro]

I am so glad you enjoyed it. The CTU works great. Just be patient with the process.

[@NeilCorke]

Very informative and nice lighting!

[@AmyAstro]

Glad you liked it! Thank you for taking the time to teach me. :) My son helped me with the lights. Now it will cost me to get my own. lol😆

[@robertovolpini9359]

thanks a lot Amy, this video, that is absolutely clear and understable, I have a Artemis-C camera that has natively four screw for tilt adjustment, I must to try to apply your suggestions Clear skyes and see you on next video Ciao Roberto

[@Mr.Smalleys]

thank you for the motivation Amy, , I think this just helped me lots

[@AmyAstro]

You are so welcome!

[@wisconsinite920]

Outstanding video Amy! Just what I'm currently pulling my hair out over! These adapters seem well designed. Getting my wallet out now...

[@AmyAstro]

Have fun!

[@raeiqmusachi]

Nice video However your issue wasn’t tilt but backfocus you needed a hair more. Your stars are radially pointing towards the centre from the corners. Which is why your field became flatter after the CTU I suspect it gave you a hair more back focus and optimally placed your FF/FR. Your tilt is actually worse post adapter. You can try your previous combo of adapter without the CTU and add 0.5-1mm spacers at a time until you get same result. Out of interest what flange size did you get from moonlite for the nitecrawler, I have same scope es 102, would you have the thread dimensions and depth etc ?

[@AmyAstro]

Thank you for that input. I will look at that closer. I contacted Moonlite and told them my telescope and they sent me the correct one. Great customer service.

[@JohnMcGFrance]

Interesting and informative as ever Amy. Glad it improved your stars. Just for info, FWHM stands for Full Width at Half Maximum, not full weight half measure. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into these videos. Thank you.

[@AmyAstro]

Thanks for the info! I botch that one up a lot. :)

[@lcxt9]

Thanks for the video. I need to do the same.

[@douweodh4146]

Hello Amy, I am very happy to have found your video! Just got first light from my new WO GT 71 and even though I'm pretty sure I got the back focus right + i got the dedicated WO field flattener, my images looked pretty bad in the corners. Never thought about a tilt corrector as shown in your video, so I hope this will end my issue. Luckily I live in The Netherlands which is next to Germany so shipping will be quite fast if they're in stock. Clear skies!

[@AmyAstro]

Welcome! I hope this does solve your problem. The key is the elongated stars in 2 corners or all four. If it is in two corners the camera tilt could help. If in all four then double check the back focus math. Every flattener uses a different number. clear skies!

[@douweodh4146]

@@AmyAstro thanks for answering! To be honest they look bad in all corners but also on some sides halfway between corners. I checked all increments around my back focus sweet in a radius of 5 mm in and out. With every increment I added or subtracted, the problem stayed so I ruled back focus out as the culprit 😀.

[@davidf9494]

Another great video Amy - many thanks! I will look at this tilt unit if my shims I bought (3D printed) don't work. Other tilt units can't be easily adjusted as you mentioned because they sit up against the EFW. I'm intrigued by the adjustment grub screws - very neat. Looking forward to your next video - Clear Skies!

[@AmyAstro]

Best of luck

[@andysmith4050]

I definitely have a tilt issue. My focuser for my newt is not amazing, and my scope would need an adapter plate to house a new focuser bc normal size focusers are too small (scope is a konusky 200). I have ised the baader mpcc and currently use the nexus 0.75x reducer/cc (which actually corrects better than the baader!) one corner appears i dont have enough backfocus, while the other appears to have too much. I just purchased this unit and look forward to installing. Ill will follow up to this comment with how it works out!

[@AmyAstro]

Best of luck!!!

[@Thunder_Dome45]

Nice video. I had to buy the ZWO tilter for doing ha solar, but the side screw idea is a good one that's not on the ZWO one.

[@AmyAstro]

Thank you!

[@carlosizquierdo6528]

Hello. If you allow me, I would like to ask you a question. I have that same flattener. What is the back focus distance? I'm going crazy!!!

[@AmyAstro]

If it is the same flattener then the back focus for it is 55mm, This is typical for most of the flatteners I have used so far.

[@pt8314]

Hi Amy thanks for the video. Maybe edit the title to include Gerd Neumann CTU in it - there's precious few videos of it and that will help with search. I have a CTU and I am waiting for a clear night. I have extreme tilt issues after a dropped scope... this is a hail mary before new scope time :)

[@AmyAstro]

Great Idea. Thank you!

[@wd4dx]

Awesome video Amy! Now I have to go and get one of these, and run through these tests to optimize my setup (since it's the same as yours, I assume I have a similar issue). Oh well, look out bank account! 😁

[@AmyAstro]

Go for it!

[@MrGuitar50]

Amy, what if ALL your stars are tear-shaped when zooming in on them? Based on your description my issue is something else separate from tilt. I did check for collimation and it looks fine. I’m also using ASIair and a bahtinov mask to focus and the Star look in focus. Thoughts?

[@malcolqwe2]

doesnt inserting the ctu into your imaging train without taking something else away mess up your backfocus?

[@AmyAstro]

Yes it would mess up the back focus. You will have to adjust the spacers to get it correct again.

[@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy]

Good video, Amy. I never thought about 'Tilt' before. Now you have me looking at my images more closely. Very interesting that you received your product from Germany in just 2 days. I can't get order from here in 5 days ... if I'm lucky. For some reason, I thought you lived in South Carolina. Did you move to Georgia?

[@AmyAstro]

I was shocked by 2 days. It takes a week to get things from California! I have been in GA for almost 40 years now. :) We are only 2 hr apart.

[@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy]

@@AmyAstro ... well, that's good to know. We've been in Savannah since 1980

[@dawnpaulandelizabethromero3458]

Although I have no experience with fast optics, as Dennis said, it seems to be an accessory that would make RASA/ Hyperstar easier.

[@michaelasbury5473]

What do you do if you have no wiggle room on your back focus? I have an SCT adapter connected to an OAG, connected to a filter wheel (via another adapter that is 12.5 mm) connected to my camera. I can’t remove/replace any of that.

[@AmyAstro]

I really do not know.

[@AstroDenny]

Neat video! I could use something like this for my RASA but there's no room in the image train for something like that.

[@AmyAstro]

I was really surprised at the difference it made. Next full moon I will tweak it some more.

[@paulwilson8367]

I have RASA8 and asi2600. I have extreme tilt. Would this work with those? I’m guessing no.

[@michael.a.covington]

Let me add a wacky idea. Maybe your back focus was more accurate after installing the tilt unit. That would explain the reduction in overall difference between center and edges (flatter field). Tilt wasn't the only thing you fixed. Fixing tilt by itself would make the corners all match each other but not particularly help make them match the center. Whatever it was, it worked! Keep up these useful videos -- where else could we all see what this is all about!

[@AmyAstro]

Anything is possible.

[@nightskyimaging]

Great job! I was able to improve my sharpness my eliminating the compression rings in my optical train. From telescope to camera ..all piece screw together.

[@AmyAstro]

awesome! I am down to one compression ring.

[@dugnsuz]

Great informative video Amy - I have ordered Gerd's CTU and your video helped iron out some questions I had. One thing - is CCD Inspector a necessity? Is a trial and error approach to examining images after tweaking the CTU likely to be too frustrating a process? Cheers - Doug

[@AmyAstro]

CCD inspector has a free trial and you can probably get things up and running in a single night. Yes I also believe you can just review each image and tweak it. Also I am told that PixInsight and ASTAP have a way to accomplish this. I have not tried them. Best of luck!

[@ronkramer3476]

ASTAP does it too and it's free - as well the CCDceil program is free and does it too. CCD inspector is ridiculously priced for something that's often free. (3 other sources) It's typically software that we'd use once or twice in our lives. HOWEVER it is offered with a 30 day trial which lets you use it for the first time free.

[@doug_robertson6754]

Thanks all - have used ASTAP (Mac user) since originally posting. Works really well

[@paulwilson8367]

I don’t suppose this works on anything but a refractor? My RASA 8 and New ASI2600MC have “extreme” tilt. So bad that I’m having thoughts of selling my equipment. I used ASTAP tilt inspector on individual light frames to show a tilt of 103%. Yes that’s right. Incredible. My previous asi cams, a 533 and a 1600 had tilt that needed correction, but nothing like this. My previous asi2600 that was exchanged for leaking showed 24% (“severe” as compared to “extreme”). Wondering if I should just return the camera. Depressed. You should see the astap photos. A guy makes a tilt corrector here in USA and it’s $650 and then CCD inspector is $175. Damn. I can’t find another way, the 2600s have a unusable tilt plate.

[@AmyAstro]

Wow that is horrible to hear. I thought (from reading) the RASA would not have this issue. Just the basic collimation that these scopes need. Silly question is the scope out of collimation? I have a loaner RASA on the way soon and this does have me a bit worried. I just ordered this to verify my collimation when it arrives. farpointastro.com/products/farpoint-2-inch-super-collimation-kit-carrying-case Keep me posted please.

[@AmyAstro]

I found this on the Celestron website. 14. Will I need to collimate (i.e. align) the optics? The optics are aligned at the factory, and should not normally need adjustment. However, there are screws which adjust the tilt of the lens assembly should collimation adjustment ever be needed. 15. What is focus shift, and how does the Ultra-Stable Focus System (USFS) help to minimize it? Focus shift is when the image in your camera moves a little bit when focusing. This can make critical focusing more challenging. The RASA 8 focuses by moving the primary mirror inward-and-outward. If the mirror moves at all laterally, then focus shift will result. The USFS works by using a precision linear ball bearing on the shaft that supports the primary mirror. This constrains any lateral motion of the primary mirror and minimizes focus shift. This also helps prevent any unwanted lateral motion of the primary mirror (also known as “mirror flop”) as the astrograph is pointed to different positions in the night sky.

[@paulwilson8367]

@@AmyAstro The RASA is supposed to hold collimation well. I will run my AF up to make big star donuts and see how they look, but it can't be so far out to be causing this. RASAs are tilt prone. I will email this guy that makes your corrector and see what he says about RASAs.

[@AmyAstro]

Great idea. He was very responsive. Keep me posted please

[@AmyAstro]

Do you have the required 25mm of back focus? I am just reading their site taking notes for myself

[@3ricj]

Lovely video - thank you. Something to note: FWHM - stands for Full Width at Half Maximum. Stars always have a fall off around the edge; the FWHM measurement is a method to pick how far into the falloff we want to consider to be part of the "star diameter"; Wikipedia has a great amount of detail on it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_width_at_half_maximum

[@Steve_The_Ignorant_Astronomer]

Let me tell you , I am using the the camera tilt and it is hard , keep getting confused

[@AmyAstro]

Are you using this CTU or the camera tilt built into the camera?

[@Steve_The_Ignorant_Astronomer]

@@AmyAstro I bought the zwo camera tilt and I couldn't figure out how to do it properly so I took it off and I went inside the house and I practiced what I have to do loosen the big one tighten the little ones to expand it and then they do the other way around

[@AmyAstro]

@@Steve_The_Ignorant_Astronomer There is the problem...ZWO version. The Gerd Neumann was much easier.

[@Steve_The_Ignorant_Astronomer]

@@AmyAstro Looks like basically the same. I will get it I could not go for the price difference. You know I am retired now

[@anata5127]

What about focuser? Misalignment could happen after rotation. Obviously, if the same orientation is used over and over again, it is not a problem. But, good pictures should have composition. So, if focus is not good, this device ain’t going to help.

[@miguelmorales9667]

Full Width Half Maximum.

[@backgammonbacon]

Here in Europe we are used to buying products from other countries. Its really not a big deal and if you use a credit card you should carry over your protections across borders. Most stuff outside of food has zero % import taxes between the USA and Europe even without "trade deals" but you may need to pay sales taxes. The economists tell us not to sweat this stuff and buy from whoever is cheapest at the right quality. We live in mature markets so there's nothing needing protection its all just specialisation.

[@AmyAstro]

We figure if it takes forever from California the crossing an ocean will take eternity. I am so happy to be proven wrong.

[@dn1927-b7c]

Is this video really about adjusting the tilt? I think it's misleading. It seems all you've done was to correct the back focus issue (curvature) by inserting the CTU as a smile 17 mm spacer. Could have used just a simple 17 mm spacer ring and saved $150 or more. Where's the tilt adjusting part?

[@RJ-cu4cj]

I may have missed it but which scope were you using for this video?? Curious because I've some videos that stated if your using a refractor you should invert the image in the software; ASTAP, CCD Inspector; NINA. That does not seem to make sense but wanted to check with you.

[@AmyAstro]

I am using the explore scientific ED102

[@RJ-cu4cj]

Quick question, last night was the first night I was able to test the CTU. Unfortunately, clouds rolled in so I did not get to finish. I took initial images and analyzed them in NINA Hocus Focus. I first loosened the 6 Fixing Screws one full revolution and based on the Hocus Focus analysis, I then proceeded to turn one of the Collimation screws (I labeled A) 1/2 turn CCW and the other screw (labeled B) 1/2 turn CW but I was unable to do it. The CW rotation wouldn't adjust (I thought it may already be all the way in???) and I didn't want to force it. Or is it the CW rotation is up against the spring forces so it is just a little harder to rotate in??? Appreciate any feedback.

[@AmyAstro]

I'm not sure exactly. I would not force anything though. Reach out to the mfg.