An Alcatraz Prisoner's Meal

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Subtitles: Jose Mendoza | IG @worldagainstjose
PHOTO CREDITS
PHOTOS
Alcatraz: By Chris6d - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Alcatraz Hospital: By William Warby from London, England - Hospital Ward, CC BY 2.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
#tastinghistory #alcatraz

[@TastingHistory]

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[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

You truly are one of the greats on KZbin Max! 😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@juliebaker6969]

Why were you so weirded out about the "recipe" for happy kids? That was a recipe that was used for thousands of years, and has always yielded consistently good results. It wasn't unusual to include advice in the form of a recipe in old cookbooks, I'm surprised you've never run across one before, what with all of the old cookbooks you peruse. I own several with such inclusions. It's ESPECIALLY prevalent in collaborative cookbooks for organizations, communities or churches.

[@drewharrison6433]

Great video. Thanks to Jose for the captions. I didn't expect it to be a little depressing. The past is the worst. So glad I live now. Especially if it means I get to watch Tasting History with Max Miller!

[@juliebaker6969]

That cucumber salad sounds similar to my grandma's cucumbers & onions. Only HER dressing was made with Miracle Whip, vinegar and sugar instead of evaporated milk. She usually had a bowl of it sitting in the fridge all the time for snacking, along with a bowl full of pickled beets and eggs. I'm allergic to cucumbers, and I hate beets.....but I sure bashed those EGGS!😉

[@cerveau24]

How did you post this 7 days ago?!

[@TMarlands]

Looking forward to the Drinking History where Max makes prison wine

[@infowarriorone]

Yes, a pruno episode would would be great. And it would probably get a ton of views too.

[@punky19761]

@@infowarrioroneEspecially if he uses an actual toilet. 😂

[@tracy9531]

That would be a fun episode 😉

[@michaelstein7510]

That would be a fun crossover with Larry Lawton. 😂

[@mfburns7909]

​@@punky19761 I've never heard of pruno being made in the toilet

[@Jenn-ie5vf]

I think the weird recipe was her way of saying how to raise "well bred" kids by giving them lots of sunshine, flowers, water to play in, dogs to play with and a nice bath at the end of the day to wash away all the dirt. Perhaps she wasn't known to be a good cook, but a good mother :)

[@MargaretUK]

I loved that recipe!😊

[@Chrysandthemum]

I agree, I thought it was cute. My grandma sent me a bunch of “recipes” like that when my oldest was born.

[@MargaretUK]

@@Chrysandthemum That's lovely 💖

[@subplantant]

Exactly! Don't quite get Max's reaction tbh

[@nancy9478]

I am old enough to be his Mom and I loved the recipe. I think its a generational thing.

[@jessicamckay0514]

Fear of getting tapeworms from pork was a big scare during the 50s. Cooking pork to basically shoe leather was the norm. My Nana lived by this until she passed a few years ago. You don't want to get trichinosis!

[@sharonsloan9676]

Not tapeworms, but trichinosis; you really, really didn't want that and it had to be well done to be sure you killed the cysts. Plus, I recall pork being fattier and darker, and took longer to cook to shoe leather. (First time I had not-well-done pork I was actually a little afraid to eat it; I actually looked up if pinkish pork chops were ok to eat. That's how ingrained the fear of trichinosis was.)

[@cornflake6877]

Good thing that trichinosis is really rare now!

[@nicole-uo9cd]

My mother did the same when she cooked pork chops back in the 1970's

[@fuckingpippaman]

forbidden pleasure. Rare pork is a delicacy

[@the503creepout7]

Tell me about it. i grew up in a Jewish family(although we did eat plenty of pork & other nonkosher foods). Every Passover, Yom Kippur, etc the grandparents would bring up how "you don't wanna get sick from those pork products." Then we'd all be eating BLT's with cheese a week later.

[@BrianA-dq7gv]

Another fun fact: you could only get hot showers at Alcatraz. That was because the authorities worried that cold showers would acclimate the inmates to the cold waters of San Francisco Bay if they wanted to swim for it. It didn't work, as Morris and the Anglin brothers proved in 1962. :) This one was quirky and interesting. Thanks!

[@maddieb.4282]

Allegedly proved, if you ask naive people or conspiracy theorists

[@GenericHandle666]

@@maddieb.4282 I think whatever’s on KZbin, Facebook, TikTok, CNN, FOX, and NBC is the truth and nobody can prove otherwise.

[@farsicalspeaking3356]

Mythbusters did a show on escaping Alcatraz using the same materials (rubber slickers, rubber tube-llike rafts, etc). I think they sort of made land in SF, but they also had support and medical staff along with them. As i remember they got sickish from the salt water, were almost hypothermic, fairly disoriented. Cast real doubt on the viability of 3 guys out in total darkness on a very rough wave and cold night making it safely to any part of the SF coast versus either drowning or being washed out to the ocean. @@maddieb.4282

[@feldon27]

​@@maddieb.4282the Myth busters have entered the chat

[@DinkusDorf]

Guaranteed hot showers and good food? Who tf would want to escape that?

[@stargazer5073]

The children recipe meant....if children were raised with fresh air, time to enjoy nature and the love of a puppy.....they wouldn't turn into criminals.

[@raideurng2508]

Right on the money.

[@RonJohn63]

And the "brown" is suntanned from being outside all day.

[@erc3338]

@@RonJohn63 I thought it was mud from playing outside, which is why she says to put them in the tub after.

[@Imbatmn57]

I loved how much humanity the recipe had, that children aren't born criminals.

[@theeddorian]

@@erc3338 Probably both. At least that was the case when I was young. Mom would turn us outside to get a break and have a cup of coffee. There's a lot of nostalgia in that "recipe." And, by the standards of the time, there is _no_ emphasis on what the more monied families would consider "breeding."

[@jimghee6021]

As a retired Correctional Food Service Supervisor of 25 years this was an excellent episode. It brought back many forgotten memories. As my first warden said, "Food is the cheapest form of morale there is." Over the last 20 years I saw the food quality slowly diminish which did have a negative impact on the inmates. Thank you for showing a bit of prison life.

[@scottperry5918]

I worked as a prison nurse in California for 5 years. The inmates never complained about the food per se, but many wanted larger portions and snacks to accommodate their body-building regimen

[@mrsean1999]

I work at a nursing home. The food at Alcatraz looks better than what we serve. It’s a crime

[@redline1916]

@@HarleyQuinn-gu1kn Back then we had the death penalty and lot less prisoners in general. People weren't so keen on committing atrocities enmasse until recent.

[@jamesbellamy9328]

@@redline1916 ...the US still has the death penalty today, you know. Nothing "back then" about it! Crime was also pretty damn common 100 years ago (the homicide rate in 1922 is higher than the homicide rate of 2022, for example), so not sure what point you're making about "atrocities" either

[@MarkiusFox]

@@redline1916 There still is the death penalty though; a big difference is the number of minor offenses that now have prison time. Things like mandatory minimum sentences haven't helped with the growing number of incarcerated people, but it has certainly made a sizable profit in for-profit prison institutions. Those prisons in turn promise state governments a savings of taxpayer money if the state sends prisoners to their network, cutting back on anything which could be sent instead to the pockets of stock holders; from wages paid to the guards, expired or lack of medical equipment, to middling portions of food that make the Alcatraz Solitary Confinement diet seem luxurious or opulent.

[@TheItalianPepe]

Actually met someone who used to work as a guard on Alcatraz while back from a family vacation in San Francisco. Turned out he was the last guard out of the prison, locked it up and pocketed the key. Met him while we were eating dinner on Amtrak. He noticed I was wearing a "Alcatraz swim team" beanie I purchased while touring San Fran. Saw my beanie and struck up a conversation with us. He wrote a book about his time as a guard there and some of his stories. Pretty chill dude.

[@corvus_da]

"locked it up and pocketed the key" Wait, does that mean he still has the key to Alcatraz? Or just a figure of speech?

[@TheItalianPepe]

@@corvus_da He claimed to kept the key after locking the final doors of the prison. Apparently no one cared enough to ask for them back.

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

@@corvus_da You'd think "the key to Alcatraz" would've been something safely guarded, but I guess there's no point once it's empty.

[@40kanon]

Name of the book?

[@TheItalianPepe]

@@40kanon Last Guard Out by Jim Albright.

[@catbear305]

always joked that my grandmother basically cooked prison food but its still crazy seeing her cucumber salad recipe in the alcatraz menu lmao

[@annettespradlin4945]

My mom would make the same dish every day for a week to where we called her the "concentration camp cook " She was a good enough cook, though.

[@annettespradlin4945]

I was shocked at the menu!

[@chaytonhurlow840]

Prison food can be pretty good. At least the older recipes

[@M00n3at3r]

My mom used to make "stuffed porkchops" all the time. I'm now 30 and make them for my kids. This whole time I thought she came up with the idea. We normally marinade our porkchops in Italian dressing over night then used stuffing mix.

[@sewingintrifocals-alisonde7778]

@@M00n3at3r, that sounds yummy!

[@covishen]

The pigs of the 1950s had a lot more fat than modern pigs. Trichinosis was a huge concern then as well which would explain the long cooking time.

[@sinocte]

Yeah, up into the 90s, everyone cooked the hell out of pork because of foodborne illness.

[@telebubba5527]

Never heard of it. Wasn't an issue here in Europe.

[@garywait3231]

Yes, I also noticed and commented on that. And of course, back in the day, that would especially increase cooking time a lot for inch-thick stuffed chops to be sure they were safely cooked right the way through. For much the same reason, I never stuffed the Thanksgiving turkey or Christmas goose until just before it went into the oven.

[@CallN0w]

@@telebubba5527you are undereducated or delusional

[@WintrBorn]

@@telebubba5527it still happens. 2019 had 140 cases in Europe. And since horse is also consumed in Europe, you folk have double the vectors compared to us in the States.

[@MetaSynForYourSoul]

I love how the recipe for "Well Bread Children"went right over Max's head. 😂 Is just a humorous way to say, "Get a Dog. Let your kids play outside. And make sure to give them a good bath at the end of the day." What a mom!

[@ErinMcWalter]

Exactly! She was wise not crazy. Imagine her horror with kids not able to play outside much anymore.

[@MetaSynForYourSoul]

@@ErinMcWalter Well they still can, it's just not as interesting as what's going on inside or on the phone is the problem. It's allot harder to get kids interested in scouts and activities outside the home nowadays. Back then inside was crazy boring so going outside was a necessity. But now television and internet, video games and whatnot are loads more fun than playing ball. And physically not as demanding. We're in a transition period. Kids will rediscover these things soon, I hope.

[@Hawwwlucha]

@@MetaSynForYourSoul there's also a major factor of less kid-friendly outdoors. Less parks, way more roads, and a lot of places that could be kid-friendly starting to require more cars than say walking distance.

[@MetaSynForYourSoul]

@@Hawwwlucha Yes American cities were not designed with the pedestrian in mind and I hate that. Less green spaces and the ones that are around are atrocious, no good for unsupervised play. You gotta hunt to find the gems, the parks that are taken care of and have a good local patronage. That's hard.

[@skorpiongod]

​@Hawwwlucha the nearest park in my neighborhood is 15 minutes away IF you're able to cut through the school. So yeah i almost never went to a park as a kid.

[@mrboxleytheonly]

Yo, not to be weird, but on your birthday could you please do a history of Max Miller? what kind of childhood recipes do you get nostalgia for, what kind of holiday dishes did you have? Did you perhaps have a go to homemade birthday cake? What do you go to today for easy meals? Maybe an all time favorite?

[@patriciacox8169]

WOW. That is an excellent idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@wellmynameisana]

this would be pretty cool actually!!

[@erickoontz6835]

GREAT idea! 👏🏼👏🏼

[@scarletletter4900]

I've seen recipes like "Well Bread Children" before. These are typically descriptions of idyllic childhood scenes cheekily written in the format of a recipe. It's a bit of a maternal inside joke that states that if you want you kids to come out okay, then, you need to make sure that these things (such as exposing them to fresh air, sunshine, and nature) happen. The bathtub mentioned at the end refers to the parent/cook giving thier kids a bath after a day spent playing outside. I hope that helps.

[@CaptainRiterraSmith]

As someone who has never been to prison, I can understand the urge to throw your plate when they lower the quality of the pasta. Even criminals don't abide substandard spaghetti.

[@scaper8]

Given that the gaurds were eating too, I'm a little surprised that they weren't in on that riot too.

[@Zootofanthrax]

Especially when a large percentage of the prisoners were italians. They take pasta personal!

[@tycarne7850]

All spaghetti is sub-standard. Italian food is awful.

[@t_y8274]

@@tycarne7850 you've only eaten at olivegarden haven't you?

[@tildessmoo]

Reminds me of Goodfellas. "I ordered spaghetti and marinara, and they gave me egg noodles and ketchup."

[@mythcat1273]

BABE WAKE UP, IT'S TUESDAY AND THERE'S A NEW EPISODE OF TASTING HISTORY

[@TheKingOfBeans]

Embarrassing

[@guvj4fyufudrs2444]

i'm awake!

[@eleisatrujillo3398]

🎉❤ yay for all HAPPY PRIDE everybody!!!🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤

[@kryw10]

Thanks, babe, I’d hate to miss it😂

[@kidfortoday]

You call your mom babe? Weird.

[@rev.bobertbockstop7057]

My grandfather, who was a Sioux activist in his later life and a farm hand who passed away in 2003 at the age of 105 spent three years in Alcatraz in the early 1930’s while in the army for punching a superior officer and breaking the officer’s arm. The officer had called him a derogatory name referring to his Native American race. I asked him a few years before he died what it was like to be in Alcatraz. I didn’t think he would tell me but he just looked at me and chuckled and then said, “Oh, it was pretty nice grandson. I worked in the bakery making pies so I made a lot of friends by giving them pies. I met some of the best people I ever knew there. Anyway, it was a whole lot better than that godd**med Army.” He died at 105 two weeks after his birthday while building fence. At the time he died he still lived on his own in a dilapidated old farmhouse in Butler. He had a 35 year old Navaho girlfriend, drank a fifth of whisky every two days, a case of beer every three days. He planted his own giant garden every year. He was a tribal elder at the nearby Indian Center. He poured concrete most of his life so his hands looked like catchers mitts. Tough old man with a powerful personality. He had a stroke in the field, was taken to the hospital, and passed away a day later. A good way for a real man to die.

[@bingisbahn3374]

What did he think of the AIM occupation of the island in the 70s

[@DanielJohnson-ec8rk]

I’ve been disabled for 16 years but have finally been able to go back to work. I don’t want to die at home on my ass. The Bible commands us to work. I’m doing all I can Lord

[@rylangrimes1239]

I would love to have a meal with this man and just listen to his stories ❤

[@grammagangstarr]

If you ever write this as a book I'll buy it!❤

[@queuedjar4578]

Bro is basically the native american version of Cotton Hill.

[@tikamajere316]

I finally tried the cucumber salad recipe. I had a hunch that the trick to getting the evaporated milk to whip was putting it in the fridge overnight. I was right!

[@zombiemanjosh]

In defense of Mrs. Murphy, I get what she means. Letting a handful kids play on a sunny day in a field and stream with their dogs and then making sure they get a bath afterwards to wash off all the dirt is the recipe for some well raised kids.

[@cecilsmith2061]

yeah, it's very clearly meant to be taken as a sort of poem

[@timmccarthy9917]

And then ya ROAST EM

[@dnmurphy48]

Yes I saw it as common sense but expressed in a slightly whimsical way. Quite cute really.

[@Divergent_Integral]

Yeah, obviously a lighthearted joke of sorts.

[@PassTheMarmalade1957]

Very whimsical and innocent. So much so that she completely missed the accidental implication of eating children.

[@dramallamarama5300]

I found the ‘well ‘bread’ children’ recipe really wholesome. Let your kids run around outside in the sun & nature with their dogs all day and then when they’re home, covered in dirt from the field and a little burnt, clean them off in a refreshing cool bath. Do this and you won’t be sending them to Alcatraz :D

[@SwanseaTitanFan]

Exactly

[@revgregory]

Yeah, I found his reaction to be a bit odd. It pretty much sounds like my childhood, the only way you found any of us inside the house was if the weather was bad...and even then sometimes even bad weather had its opportunities for fun!

[@insanity666]

I think he was reading it as a cooking recipe which kinda sounds like the witch from Hansel and Gretel. Honestly I took it the same way too until reading this comment then was like OOOOOOH....lady Dr Seuss'ed it...sorta

[@youngimperialistmkii]

1950's humor. I think that many young people today would not get the message. It would just seem off putting.

[@grayfiresoul]

I couldn't have explained it better. It's very funny, very sweet, and the exact recipe that I'm using! Max's reaction was bizarrely soulless; it just flew right over his head.

[@grandpa6825]

The fact that prisoners at Alcatraz got fed better then us kids on school lunch is crazy.

[@victoriahoward8244]

My former husband and I took an wedding anniversary tour of Alcatraz! Because nothing says “Romance,” like a State Penitentiary Tour! 😂😂😂 I bought the cookbook too!

[@Jon717]

That looks way better than the lunches we had at school.

[@eldhaxan]

When a maximum security prison has better breakfast than your school, you know shit is fucked

[@aiko9393]

​@@eldhaxanmy school arranged breakfast for all students and staff at the time of national exam, because we have to come early to school. Each person was given a bread roll filled with chocolate, a single banana, and a glass of milk. It was good, and spending more time with friends to eat is fun. But this prison spread is something else 😅

[@eldhaxan]

@@aiko9393 While that breakfast sounds underwhelming, it atleast sounds more nutritious than some of the stuff served in the US.

[@roundsm18]

We had school meals like that. Kids threw them away at such an alarming rate that they changed the food to reduce waste. This was over 30 years ago. Michelle Obama had this lunch program that was supposed to bring about better lunches - once again the kids wastefully threw them away and waste went up like crazy. Lunches got changed back to stuff kids would eat.

[@roundsm18]

@@eldhaxanKids started throwing out healthy food. Michelle Obamas lunch program yielded tons of additional waste. Kids would throw their trays instead of eating it. Gone are the days where you ate your food as served or else. That was exiting as my generation was going through school. My generation threw out healthy stuff and started eating corn dogs and pizza sticks instead. It wasted so much food that the 90s saw our menus change.

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

Max, the reason for the 1-hour baking time is because ovens of the time were far less insulated than current-day ones, so lost a lot more heat, requiring longer cooking times, and also were far more uneven in their internal heating. It's very important to account for this when reading older recipes, including Julia Child's.

[@colleenuchiyama4916]

It had to do with trichinosis. Everyone back then cooked pork until it was bone dry and leathery.

[@charlynegezze8536]

@@colleenuchiyama4916 My mother even boiled it for an hour before cooking.

[@TheMichigami]

the cooking time is because all pork was cooked to death back then, the fear of trichinosis was massive and well deserved in the days before ways to lessen the infection risk from commercial pork were found and implemented. I still overcook pork out of habit because of my grandmother's teaching even though i cook it less time than she did. Its still a risk from undercooked pork and certain game animals.

[@Tazzie1312]

Pork was also a LOT fattier back then. We've bred pigs to be much leaner now.

[@christianschelthoff9001]

I have a 1930s Chambers stove/oven and it is better insulated than any oven manufactured during the last 50 years. Crank the oven to 600 degrees and no worries about burning your hand on the surface, since it never gets that hot.

[@stevenellison3128]

My great grandpa was the sheriff for many years in the small town I still live. My grandpa told me the prisoners would always look forward to suppertime because my great grandma did all the cooking, and those prisoners ate everything the family ate.

[@ImInLoveWithBulla]

That’s the mentality of any creative profession. You may be the head chef of a prison, but you’re still the head chef. And you take pride in what you do.

[@anthonycekic4509]

I think the reason that the pork was baked for so long was because ovens weren't as efficient as they are now. Julia Child's cookbooks always used oven times and temps that were much hotter for longer as well as other recipes from back in the day.

[@arthas640]

My firs thought too. I dont know about prisons back then but I know many hospitals (similar institutional kitchens) use steam ovens which have different cook times and the risk of drying out the food is much lower. It also might take longer in giant ovens if youre cooking tons of food at once, I know even trying to cook multiple sheets of vegetables or too many pastries/baked goods at once can effect cook times, especially if they're high moisture foods since all the steam slows down the cooking process.

[@rokkfel4999]

Also trichinosis

[@anthonycekic4509]

@rokkfel4999 trichinosis can be killed at internal temp of 145F. That would still leave the pork moist and tender if done right. So it doesn't really make sense to cook it to the point where it's cardboard.

[@dylan5989]

​@@anthonycekic4509they didn't know any better. Even my parents talked about their parents cooking tf our of them in the 70/80s

[@stevenketola1613]

@@anthonycekic4509 True, but most cooks, especially home cooks, wouldn't have known that. There is more trichinosis in the US today from eating bear or mountain lion than undercooked pork, and many people (even younger generations) still cook the bejezzus out of it.

[@ragnkja]

Sugar & vinegar dressing should typically be “more sweet and more sour than you think”, according to my late grandmother’s advice.

[@dashikashi4734]

Yep, as according to Adam Ragusea's constant mentioning in his videos, the dressing has to flavor quite a bit of food. If it's bland, watery food like cucumbers, you def wanna step the zest up.

[@metallicakixtotalass]

I'm always fascinated by the recipes and cooking of my grandmother and even my great-grandmother because they may have used very little spices but they sure go ham with the sugar, salt, and vinegar, and overcook the heck out of any meat and/or pasta.

[@lauriepenner350]

That is 100% my mom's cucumber salad, only she left out the onions because my sister doesn't like them. So it was just cucumbers, sugar, vinegar, and maybe some oil. And a little dill (dry of course, from a jar 10 years old) if she was feeling extravagant.

[@ragnkja]

@@lauriepenner350 Minus the oil, that’s exactly our cucumber salad as well. Salt the cucumber slices first, and squeeze out the water that’s drawn out, then add sugar and vinegar according to grandma’s instructions.

[@annainspain5176]

My grandmother made that same cucumber salad. The dressing was horrible.

[@michellethiesen7972]

That's actually not bad. Way better than school lunches.

[@tell-me-a-story-]

I always feel kind of bad for children who have to buy a school lunch every day instead of having a parent who makes them a lunch every morning. I mean sure they act like they prefer it, but I rememmber the one time I had to buy a lunch, the meat looked so gross that I just filled my tray with nothing but peas and carrots. I was lucky my mom always took the time to make me a sandwitch, a hard-boiled egg, and a fruit, as most the children had to eat those weird gray hotdogs every day. My mom's the best.

[@HunterTN]

The quick pie is very similar to how you'd make a cobbler, but with a cobbler you do want it to sink down into the fruit instead of having it float on the top.

[@carlburke1625]

A lot like an apple crisp.

[@MarlsbysDragons]

You should totally do an episode using the menus from the Orient Express!

[@Amatureb]

RIGHT! I NEED this!!!

[@BerniBernsify]

Definitely 💯

[@KnightOwl1881]

Great idea!

[@MurasakiOp]

Yes! That would be cool 😁

[@kirstyb90]

That would be so cool!

[@SoberOKMoments]

Also - the little recipe about making children happy. That was a kind of trend of the time. Recipe for making a happy marriage. Recipe for living a life with laughter. These little "recipes" were often found in magazines of that era. Not creepy. Just a different life view.

[@naelyneurkopfen9741]

A much saber, normal view of life.

[@GERS316]

Same life view for some of us :)

[@rikkansi]

The joke recipes are my favorite part of vintage community cookbooks.

[@vicroc4]

Depending on how you read it, it's actually a pretty good recipe.

[@mary-janereallynotsarah684]

It just sounded weird!

[@TakuroSpirit]

Really funny that Giratina was the Pokémon Sous Chef this episode. Makes sense that the lord of underworld would partake in making a prison meal.

[@AWACSR3D]

What funny timing, just came out of Air Force Basic and we have two different types of dorms: Disneyland and Alcatraz. The living conditions at Alcatraz is tightly spaced but the food was better while Disneyland had plenty of space but the food was mid as all Hell.

[@rjn8327]

I don't know what kind of time warping Max is doing but this man makes 20 min feel like five 😂😂

[@RangerOfTheOrder]

That's why I watch this while doing the dishes

[@MAKOBITE]

The black and white stripes in the background is worthy of Randy Rainbow. Nice vid, Max! xx

[@MetalsirenIXI]

He does not waste time

[@avnostlga]

My mother spent some of her childhood on Alcatraz. Her best friends' father was a guard at Alcatraz, which meant they lived on the island. Many fond memories of sleepovers and an idyllic child's life she has of the island.

[@TastingHistory]

Wow! I bet she has stories.

[@avnostlga]

@@TastingHistory Riding the ferry to the island by herself was her favorite part. She was 11 or 12. The inmates were duly separated from the guards housing. She never saw an inmate. It was a special place to live out on the SF Bay.

[@avnostlga]

@@TastingHistory She wants me to ask, if there is a recipe submitted by a Mrs Dolby? That was her friends mother.

[@sunchips18]

Adding myself to this thread, because it would be really cool to find out that they were the same person.

[@anitanalley2417]

I hope the two are the same!

[@IrishWristwatch23]

This might be the greatest KZbin channel I've ever come across. I adore cooking and I adore history. Absolutely unreal video, the information of how Alcatraz functioned along with the food menu is just amazing. Keep up the phenomenal work. All the love from Ireland.

[@TastingHistory]

Thank you!

[@Viewer92136]

@@TastingHistory I would love more meals from Alcatraz. :)

[@bloqk16]

When I took a guided tour of "The Rock" back in the mid-1970s, the park ranger said that serving good food to the inmates was a way to keep the peace with them; as it was felt that serving lousy food could give the inmates a rallying point for a prison uprising. The park ranger did add there was one proviso with the inmates being served the well-prepared food: _Every morsel had to be eaten._ If there was even as much a a single green pea left on the plate, that was grounds for disciplinary punishment on that prisoner.

[@joshuaabe4832]

They probably overcooked the pork cos they were still dealing with trichnosis. My grandmother always cooked pork dry. Always. It was awful

[@inkermoy]

Mom would cook Shake n Bake pork chops for 45 minutes. For some reason it never looked like the picture on the box. :D

[@m2hmghb]

My mother did the same.

[@angrytvrobot6130]

I was about to say this. Pork quality has shot up in the years since. You can order it rare from a trusted source these days.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

Gah, I can just imagine biting into that shoe leather with stuffing inside.

[@Dreckmal01]

Yep. Older generations definitely cooked that pork until it was... done. Chicken too. I believe this is why my grandma was so good at making gravy.

[@WalterReimer]

As someone who worked a county jail, now retired, I can tell you that the one thing that might start a riot faster than anything else is the food - how it's prepared, the size of the portions, etc.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

It's what little people have left, so I can imagine.

[@metallicakixtotalass]

I'm pretty sure at least one of the big prison riots like Attica was directly due to food problems.

[@jclindsay007]

@@metallicakixtotalass forgot what prison it was, but one of the new york prisons rioted back in the early 1900s because they were being served too much lobster. at the time, lobster was seen a trash food, something that only the poorest of the poor would eat.

[@michaelpettersson4919]

And since the elderly at nursery homes rarely riot they are served something barely edible.

[@ragnkja]

@@jclindsay007 Too much of the same food prepared in a not too appetising way can make anyone desperate for a change, even when that food is lobster.

[@maggiepeterson7875]

I've seen the recipe for Well "Bread" Children in quite a few old church/women's club cookbooks. There are also other "joke" recipes, such as "Elephant Stew" and "A Happy Family".

[@BigboiiTone]

But seriously the psychological motivations behind the 'menu making' was absolutely fascinating. This was a top drawer video my good man

[@arthas640]

That's one thing many people overlook: as another commenter on hear said "food is the cheapest tool for morale". It's actually really smart with prisons to have decent food since not only does it improve morale, which cuts down on bad behavior, but it also makes the punishment diet way worse of a punishment. If you feed them terrible food normally and then throw them in solitary and feed them slightly worse food it's not as big a punishment, especially since some prisoners will just mix everything together to make it easier to force down which is basically what nutraloaf is. The weird thing is the US was one of the first countries to get really good at feeding their soldiers good rations to boost morale and it had great effect, they knew men would perform better if they could get hot coffee with real sugar in a cold trench when their enemies were stuck drinking cold water from a nasty canteen, and they knew a cold coke or ice cream in the heat of the south pacific and during the island hopping could offer a huge morale boost. You wouldnt always think good morale would be good for a prison but when people are treated like animals they act like animals, when they face terrible conditions all the time they lash out in retaliation, and when they lose hope they can either become depressed and turn to drugs/alcohol or they can become bitter and fearless and become dangerous so maintaining some level of morale is important.

[@BigboiiTone]

@@arthas640 Reminds me of that excellent ice cream video. I could hardly believe the Navy would have made such a big deal out of it. But after seeing that and this video, you start to see how smart of a choice it was. There's the old "an army marches on its belly" maxim but the attitude they have while marching is very dependent on quality of the food. Great comment

[@Kidneyjoe42]

@@arthas640 Not to really disagree with your overall point, but I'd argue that feeding prisoners well specifically to promote docility is very much treating them like animals. Shake some food and you can take a goat's kid right from under her. Try that with a human mother and you'll be lucky if she only stabs you. Prisoners lashing out, attacking guards, and trying to escape is the normal, natural human response to being imprisoned. Dutifully obeying your captor so he keeps giving you pork chops is the behavior of livestock. Not that I'm criticizing it. It clearly works and the types of inmates that would have wound up at Alcatraz aren't the most sympathetic bunch. But the approach does reveal a pretty cynical view of humanity on the part of those that utilize it.

[@arthas640]

@@Kidneyjoe42 It's different from how you treat animals though. Animals are often fed bland or crappy tasting food and the treats used are often much better tasting and easier to eat (soft moist treats compared to dry hard pellets for example), bad food as punishment doesn’t really work with animals. With humans punishment rations work because humans are much more complex and understand the arrangement of “bad behavior = bad food”. The punishment rations aren’t the norm either, they’re not even really used as a frontline punishment, they’re typically reserved for people in solitary which requires really bad behavior like attacking a guard or attacking another prisoner. Usual frontline punishments involve less severe things like fewer privileges (cant use a computer, no work release for awhile or might not get to go on work detail, might not be able to shop at the canteen for awhile, etc). for a set period of time. It’s also worth noting that not everyone in solitary gets punishment rations like Nutraloaf, it’s often an added punishment typically used for either people who were already high level offenders but also very non-compliant and often very violent (one of the main causes for getting sent to solitary is attacking someone) while the less violent offenses may warrant solitary but not warrant nutraloaf or similar punishment rations. Punishment rations also have another facet you might not consider: they’re typically designed so they can easily be eaten with your hands since prisoners in solitary (who are often the most violent prisoners) will use them as weapons. It probably does sound cynical, but that’s true with most facets of the prison and justice system. Terrible criminals get lesser sentences then they deserve if they do something beneficial like rat out another criminal or if they negotiate a reduced sentence in return for admitting to all their crimes without the need of a legal battle. Sometimes heinous criminals can get sent to less restrictive prisons like going from high security to low security for good behavior. There are all sort of minor privileges provided to prisoners if they follow the rules but since you cant rely on corporal punishment, violating human rights, or affecting things like nutritional content of foods past set guidelines and there are certain things prisoners are normally guaranteed it limits what sorts of punishments you can dole out, which means that virtually every privilege is “monetized” even in really nice prisons. If you follow the rules and behave you can get more privileges, if you behave well for long stretches of time without issues you may even qualify for reduced sentences or getting sent to a better prison like going from medium to minimum security or you may get work release where you can leave prison to work a real job before coming back after work; on the other hand if you smuggle contraband you lose work release, if you’re violent you get sent to a more secure facility, if you commit more crimes in prison your sentence can get lengthened. Outside of prison you negotiate deals based off money but in prison it’s privileges. That said I'm advocating for better food across the board and not just for the best prisons. A benefit better food provides though is instead of a 2 layered set of rations: standard food and punishment rations (Nutraloaf), it provides for a 3rd layer: better food (the new standard), bland food (the old standard), and punishment (Nutraloaf). The bland rations aren’t a full on punishment but just boring and can provide a less severe punishment for more minor offenses and it also makes the Nutraloaf a worse punishment by comparison. One issue with the modern system is the standard rations are already pretty bad, some prisoners will just make Nutraloaf like slop anyways by combining all their food together and forcing it all down at once to try and ignore the bad quality.

[@LucarioredLR]

This whole strategy of treating your prisoners good food in an attempt to prevent riots reminds me of the "Evil Overlord List", in it it mentions treating the captured hero and/or their party like kings instead of garbage in a similar attempt of making them forget of defeating you if not even joining you.

[@lauriepenner350]

My favourite item was "Arrange for a plucky band of ragtag adventurers to declare rebellion every other week, so when the real ones show up, nobody will believe them."

[@outstretchedwings]

I liked bit about shooting the hero the moment he asks about the master plan

[@cantsay2205]

Ohhhh, I remember reading that as a kid.

[@absolutechaos13]

Rule 34 (NOT THAT RULE 34!): "I will not turn into a snake. It never helps."

[@terminallumbago6465]

It reminds me of a story I read about an interrogator during WW2 that was especially kind towards POWs, prisoners, etc. as a way to gain their trust and get them to reveal more information.

[@heathercfinley]

Mom frequently made cucumber, onion, and sour cream, topped with salt and black pepper. It's one of my favorites.

[@ISawABear]

You do this for every episode i realize but i REALLY appreciated you breaking down every aspect as it related to the kitchen and food and how they'd interact with it.

[@janderry7991]

Mrs. Murphy was just taking credit for a 'recipe' that popped up in almost all cookbook collections of the era. Another one was 'How to make a Happy Husband' (or Marriage). Starting with "the most important step is the selection of a husband. Do not pick when too young.' Almost every church, Junior League, college alumni group, etc. issued such cookbooks, printed or mimeographed. A deep dive into a number of them may be enlightening to you.

[@NekoArts]

I'm gonna have to go look for more of those "recipes" because I loved it.

[@theresafisher4545]

@@NekoArtsme too.

[@JJMarkin]

That sort of "recipe" showed up in plenty of USAmerican organization / volunteer cookbooks from the second half of the 19th century, as well, and were still appearing as late as the 1970s. (I have a comb-bound cookbook of recipes collected from supporters of the local animal shelter with at least two such.) Quite conceivably, recipes like these were contributed by grande dames in society, officers of the organization, or major donors, which might, or might not, be the reason these recipes were accepted. You may just be too young to have encountered the phenomenon, Max. : )

[@gwennorthcutt421]

when i saw it i was like, dont take it so literally max, its a joke! its describing a bunch of kids and dogs having a fun afternoon playing

[@BitterBetty76]

❤❤❤Those are recipes for happy lives IMO ❤❤❤

[@darrenskjoelsvold]

Also that recipe for children is fantastic. I think it's a generational thing but that's the kind of humor my father (who would be in his 90s if he was still alive) had. The point of it is to let children play in nature with dogs for well raised kids and I wholeheartedly agree.

[@garyrowden7150]

yes my mum would have thought that was so sweet personally i kind of liked it (im 51)

[@darrenskjoelsvold]

@@garyrowden7150 I'm 43 a fellow Gen Xer.

[@jonesnori]

I'm a late Boomer, and I thought it was sweet and funny. Made me smile.

[@Stroggoii]

Yeah, it's generational. A good chunk of millenials are anti-family. Thankfully zoomers aren't so ornery.

[@theresafisher4545]

I thought it was very sweet too.

[@justinweidenbach3699]

My great uncle served time at Alcatraz. He always praised the food and said it was his favorite prison overall. He was put there for escaping other prisons. Love your channel.

[@rebekahjollie5053]

The apple pie recipe is very similar to the ‘dump cake’ my scout troop makes in a Dutch oven on camp outs. Take fruit pie filling of your choice, top with dry cake mix and butter slices, and pour some soda over it (usually cream soda) and cook over hot coals until bubbly and lightly brown. The dump cake name comes from dumping everything together into the Dutch oven, and while the finished product isn’t the prettiest, it tastes amazing.

[@katietoole8345]

I worked in a prison for a number of years and have eaten a plate or two of prison food. Most of it's pretty awful. The idea of serving the inmates good food to keep them sort of "fat and happy" seems pretty smart. On the other hand, overweight is also a big problem in prison already, especially among those who have money for canteen, as often the only sensory pleasure available to an inmate is the snacks they can buy. Overall, a fascinating topic. Thanks, Max.

[@sterilyte]

Still work in prison. It mostly comes down to cost, I think. It's just cheaper to have cheap, crappy food.

[@w415800]

If the overweight keeps them lethargic, it should be mandatory to stuff prisoners like geese, and let them only drink soda.

[@zitronentee]

maybe they should try vegan or vegetarian menu? It is said to violent tendency

[@quickdrawmcgraw3567]

@@zitronentee Thats if the prison system cared about prisoners and their lives, which it doeant

[@THE-X-Force]

@@zitronentee Going vegan is actually more expensive than just filling up on sugar and carbs .. there's a reason why such a high correlation between poverty and obesity exists. And it isn't because poor people are lazy.

[@lauriepenner350]

I did the obligatory Alcatraz tour when I visited San Francisco, and the kitchen and dining room stand out in my memory. The thing nobody tells you about Alcatraz is that it's beautiful, in the way a lot of abandoned places are. There is a lovely flower garden, which in times past was tended by the inmates, and a gorgeous view of San Francisco across the bay, which must have been a real torment to the inmates. It almost looks close enough to swim to...

[@ddonut1152]

I knew Father Menard SJ who served as part time chaplain at Alcatraz. As students he mostly told us stories of The Birdman and others famous inmates, but did mention once that the food was good there. I hadn’t thought of it in decades until this episode. Happy memories of a good teacher and man. RIP Father Menard.

[@blackbookhell]

Those recipes about children, family, life problems, life’s joys, marriage were pretty common in old cooking recipes books. My grandmother made a couple of those recommendation recipes for my mother’s elementary school cookbook books. Adding actual recipes and funny/advice recipes. I think it’s actually really cool how people would add a piece of themselves to the cookbooks. Really common in the Midwest from 1940s-1980s (from the ones I’ve read) community made cookbooks. From church to schools and clubs.

[@pottersrevenge]

As a former corrections officer, these inmates and guards ate way better than I ever did at the prison I worked at.

[@cahallo5964]

Please tell me, are the guards at prisons private security in the US? that always confuses me, is it the same in state or federal prisons? I only read about this on a comment about a man having 2 weeks of training to work as a prison (or county jail? I believe) guard. In my country prison guards are a specially trained branch of the police (the school is equivalent to a technical degree (2years of college), it takes 2 years to become a gendarme and 3 to become an officer here, for comparison.

[@pottersrevenge]

@@cahallo5964 depends on the prisons. We have privately owned prisons run by corporations, state ran, and federally ran prisons. I can't speak on the level of training for the privately owned prisons, but the level of training varies from state to state. The state prison in which I worked we spent about two months in academy. Most of it was revolving around law, defensive technique, and the proper application of force. As for federally ran prisons, the training is much more intensive and takes much longer. I'm not sure what the length of training is, but I know it's longer and much more intense.

[@cahallo5964]

@@pottersrevenge Thank you for claryifing, it still seems weird to me, even the county jails (its equivalent really, we aren't federal, so no difference between regions, it's the same countrywide) are run and guarded by police, the county jails are the only ones run by normal cops, but even they train at least 2 years and then another year of less dangerous jobs (like traffic) before they are let near inmates. The US system seems very alien to me, thank you for explaining it that to me, i was curious.

[@kjsaaaaaaaa]

@@cahallo5964 It depends on the state. In some they train as few as weeks - in some as long as a year or two.

[@CagetheOnion]

In America, the majority of criminals are kept in jails, not prisons. They’re totally separate systems and which one you go in depends on the level of the crime and stuff. Jails are local and county based as opposed to prisons which are state or federal (private prisons work the same). My cousin got a job at a county jail with a very little training, only a few weeks I think, couple months at most. He was already trained by the National Guard prior to that though and idk if that was a factor.

[@allysonboyenton9040]

I love how diplomatic you are in some of these reviews. On the cucumber salad: "It's nice and refreshing, and would probably be a welcome thing to be eating if you spent your entire day inside a cell." 😂

[@carolvarjabedian5244]

Hi Max, I just cooked the Alcatraz stuffed pork chop meal today and it came out great. Thank you so much! You are a huge inspiration to me. I just love your channel. ❤️😃

[@annettespradlin4945]

I'm curious to try it

[@kathihicks3305]

We absolutely love your channel and watch at least one episode 5 times a week ! I actually found this recipe quite interesting and decided to give it a try (Here in Southeast Pa. a very common dish is Snitz and Knepp which are dried apples cooked with ham and it's sooo delicious !) I doubled your recipe to feed my family and we all enjoyed it immensely ! Thanks so much for all of your efforts to not only bring unique food but adding the history aspect and at times a little comedy (*clicks hardtack together* !)

[@Brett2998]

The over cooking of pork was kind of a thing back in the day. I'm old enough to remember pork seriously overcooked because of the fear of trichonella. In fact, I still find even the least bit of pink in pork tenderloin as a "eww" thing.

[@arthas640]

that's not even that long ago, many people even today cook pork to well done and some recipes/guides even say you should practically cremate the pig.

[@MandolinMagi]

My grandmother cooked every single meat to shoeleather, she was a terrible cook. Fortunately my mother learned how to cook very well.

[@mwater_moon2865]

My grandpa was a plumber, so my grandma never served meat less than WELL done. Combine that with ovens that didn't have reliable thermostats and a lack of probe insta read thermometer and you'd better cook it an hour +

[@reepicheepsfriend]

Yes, my mother grew up eating tough, overcooked meat and thats how she was used to cooking, but gradually figured out it wasnt really necessary. But to this day she still doesnt mind it if meat is very dry or tough.

[@kateb3259]

This is exactly why my mom (also a Boomer) hates pork chops- except mine. She always had dry pork chops growing up and so just always expects them to be bad. I definitely don’t cook like that though so she’ll at least eat mine 😂

[@ladyflimflam]

5:32 sounds like Max hasn’t spent much time looking at community cookbooks. Those kinds of recipes for a good life are pretty common.

[@evil1by1]

I dont think he's as disturbed as he's putting on, it's just a cheap easy joke because its become fashionable to drag women. I think if people thought about it, it wouldn't be funny. Dylan hollis' whole shtick is acting surprised old housewives could actually cook most of the time. I dunno it just strikes me wrong when rich college educated white men make fun of housewives and their endeavors. They act superior because they were formally educated in correct cooking and look down on women who never had the option to go to school or be anything really other than a housewife and mother. Its easy to forget that depending on the age of the woman giving the recipe she may not have even been literate or been allowed much schooling beyond 5/6 grade. Cooking wasn't a cool hobby you could spend a kings ransom on , for them it was a non negotiable fact of life and they had to do so 3 meals a day, 365 days a year on a budget and to the whims of her children and husband. For many women it became their only creative outlet. Its just tone deaf to me for people who are only cooking when it pleases them and only have to please themselves with an almost unlimited budget. They act like they and a housewife trying to feed 4 kids and a picky man on $25 for the next 3 days are the same. Then criticizing the women for what they come up with. If I only had to cook when I felt like it and only had to please myself and money was no object im sure, I too could make a culinary masterpiece. Try cooking dinner with whats in the pantry for 3 kids when your tired and would quite frankly rather starve than cook but can't because kids. Also in my craw...where do these arrogant shits think most food came from? Who invented pie or soups or anything we love? It wasn't the kings chef or we'd be eating swan and peacock still. It was poor and enslaved women who created the meals we love...so maybe be a little less misogynistic. Your not better than a home cook for going to school or a mom keeping her family fed. (Don't get me started on the hate towards Rachel Ray and instant pot meals). Do that daily for 20 years and get back with me.

[@ladyflimflam]

@@evil1by1Sing it, Sister! I agree with everything you’ve said and don’t have the energy to educate random internet strangers. Bless you for having the angry energy to do so.

[@movingforwardLDTH]

@evil1by1, while that Dylan twerp (assuming he’s the same guy I’m thinking of - I blocked his channel cuz I don’t enjoy his content in the least) also drives me up the wall, I don’t include Max in the same category. He’s always been respectful of women in his videos. I honestly think he isn’t familiar w/these types of poems. I encourage you to watch more of his videos and hopefully you’ll come to the same conclusion.

[@terminallumbago6465]

@@evil1by1 It’s clear Max didn’t mean it like that. He’s just probably not seen very many, if any, of those poems that are found in those types of cookbooks from the time. He isn’t bashing anyone or their recipes. It’s a joke playing off the fact that the poem is written like a recipe.

[@aaronlandry3934]

@11:48 This is a very different way to feed people in Solitary Confinement than other prisons. Prisons in my state decided that if you’ve done something to end up in solitary confinement, you cannot be trusted to use knives or forks, so you are given Meal-loaf. Meal-loaf is a normal prisoners plate of food that is ground up along with any soups or liquids. It is normally served as a log of food with a cup of water exclusive to Solitary Confinement inmates. It is both a punishment and preventative measure

[@thesis7628]

I visited alcatraz a few years ago, the guided tour made no mention of how well they ate, I had no idea, good job finding this curious parts of history max.

[@alicekasuga751]

I’d love to see food from the German side of WW2, or even traditional seasonal potage from the 1500s. I wish there was more like this, the stuff few talk about, it’s part of the reason I like this channel so much, the things about history not many choose to see. Not just the popular parts of history.

[@edcrichton9457]

Modern History TV youtube channel has a series on medieval food eaten by the different classes.

[@TastingHistory]

I’d like to do German home front foods from wwii. I have a cookbook from then.

[@undertakernumberone1]

@@TastingHistory Unleash the Käsespätzle! :P

[@seerose7189]

​@@undertakernumberone1 and Herrgottsb'scheißerle😂😂

[@napoleonfeanor]

The nazis learned from WWI food problems and researched all kinds of ways to produce food containing nutrients and vitamins. They popularized some forgotten fruits whose English names I don't know. They also created escapism films for the homefront. Some of which are still popular such as Die Feuerzangenbowle. Goebbels tried to ban it as it made fun of the education system but the director got it to Hitler, who found it really funny. As terrible as their political goals were, we should never forget that the majority on every side in almost every war is just normal people

[@nativedumbass]

Man, that recipe about the kids was super endearing! Its basically just a poems about children and dogs playing in the sun next to a babbling brook, its cute dammit!

[@WinstonSmithGPT]

It’s adorable.

[@Lettuce-and-Tomatoes]

I am so impressed with what you’ve done with your channel. I occasionally tell people that I would start a KZbin channel if the spaces I’m interested in weren’t already so crowded. These spaces were almost just as crowded in December 2019, but you found a unique niche and broke out the pack through ingenuity, talent and hard work. You are an inspiration and if I ever start a channel, which will likely be food based (as I write this my KitchenAid stand mixer is humming in the background mixing hamburger bun dough), I will definitely give you a shoutout on my fledgling endeavor. You’re doing a fantastic job here!!!! 👏🏻

[@TastingHistory]

That is so kind! Good luck with the hamburger buns, not an easy thing to make.

[@brookemcdonald722]

How interesting! One of the things to note is that it was probably very cold inside the prison, so what seems to us like an enormous calorie load was probably important for keeping the men warm.

[@lorihicks340]

This is brilliant. The current prison system is a horror show, but not all of these ideas are bad. Especially the concept of quality food and unlimited access to it, having a positive effect on behaviors.

[@napoleonfeanor]

The biggest problem is the state's indifference towards violence and what rhymes with grape between inmates

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

@@napoleonfeanor You'd think just allowing _that_ kind of violence to happen would constitute cruel and unusual punishment, but this is also the same system that came up with the fabled "nutraloaf."

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

​@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I think the nutraloaf is neat.A prison rioter must be punished by all means possible.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

That would recognize the prisoners as humans worthy of respect. Current prison system doesn’t do that.

[@faithofamustardseed8198]

@@Justanotherconsumer I think nonviolent offenders should be treated with respect and care, but people who have harmed children sexually and/or violently deserve to be treated like the scum they are. I get that it’s difficult to separate them out though.

[@lhfirex]

When Max eats prison food, he still finds a way to make it look delicious!

[@Deaddirewolf42]

Max made hellfire stew look good, he's some kind of alchemist

[@TheGh0st6789]

The prison food at Alcatraz was legendary and people would talk about how good the food was there

[@oneblacksun]

​@@Deaddirewolf42 It's all about lighting. Good lighting can make a turd look amazing.

[@GhengisJohn]

To be fair it was said to be good quality food among prisons even then and it hadn't gone through as many layers of cost cutting as it has today. A stuffed porkchop just gives you a lot more to work with than say, boiled hot dogs. But that's not to take anything away from Max.

[@timesthree5757]

As someone who’s been to prison. I’d druther go to Alkatraze then anywhere else. Prison food in America sucks.

[@goobhba]

Not much of a story but my great grandpa was a Chicago cop who had his house burned down by Capone and my mom loves to tell the story of her grandma opening the door to Al Capone (he was there to 'ask' her to remind her husband accept bribes) and my great grandma would always put the emphasis on him being the UGLIEST man she had ever seen. And she really meant the ugliest. They never took bribes and later rebuilt their house 😊

[@emosasukelover222]

also fun to see how many of these are recipes my mom makes still today. quickie apple pie was her favorite thing growing up as a kid. the cucumber salad she makes occasionally (no one else eats it, mainly a just for her thing) and the pork chops used to be a family dinner staple when i was growing up

[@Bellaonyx59]

The dressing on that cucumber salad is actually fairly common in Germany and the Netherlands - though it doesn't always contain the evaporated milk.

[@mwater_moon2865]

As he was making that my first thought was other than slicing instead of grating, and faux buttermilk (a bit of vinegar and sugar to evaporated milk is still used in some Southern circles for a buttermilk substitute) instead of yogurt, that is dang near EXACTLY what my room mate from India made with her curry to "counter the heat". Like paprika and all!

[@Myebayvideoschicago]

My grandma made the exact same salad except she used sour cream thinned out a bit for the dressing.

[@JHaven-lg7lj]

I love a simpler version, just sour cream, salt and pepper, and a touch of vinegar for the dressing. You do have to be cautious on the amount of onion, though.

[@pallokko]

Also Polish cucumber salad is similar to this, except lots of dill.

[@neanderthal-]

@@pallokko Sounds really good. I will try making it with dill added. This would be a good for a roasted trout a summer evening.

[@carlosspeicywiener7018]

I liked mrs. Robert Murphy's poem. It's cute and accurate. Also, stories, limericks and poems have been a staple of any decent cook book since the beginning of cook books. My personal favorite cookbook has more than 200 rustic American recipes for everything from snacks, salads and appetizers to five course meals and cocktails for every occasion but there are more than 50 stories and poems in there, too. Some of the poems are also actual recipes, like the donut poem. but most are just poems.

[@mirandaa1464]

A poem about donuts sounds lovely! Do share!

[@dkettley3457]

Title?

[@thaisdemedeiros]

Would love to know the title of this book too :)

[@carlosspeicywiener7018]

@@dkettley3457 The American searchlight. It's pretty old

[@carlosspeicywiener7018]

@@mirandaa1464 I've never been able to recite it. I have to read it every time. But it's pretty well known, I bet you could Google it or something. It's a solid recipe, if a little prosaic. But the one that I have has an actual recipe attached to it.

[@josephgaviota]

My dad was stationed at Fort Point at about 1950, just across the water from Alcatraz. Dad was always interested in all things Alcatraz. I wish he were alive to watch this vid, I think he would have enjoyed it.

[@Casper.Raptorr]

I really enjoyed this, I’m glad your channel popped up in my feed. You’ve combined two of my favorite things, history and food. Can’t get better than that. 21:52 ❤

[@TastingHistory]

Welcome to the channel

[@FirstLast-gw5mg]

They probably did overcook the pork... however I wonder if the prison ovens didn't also have problems coping with having _so many_ pork chops loaded in at once. That may have brought the temperature down a bit and depending on the oven it might have taken a while to recover.

[@fabrisseterbrugghe8567]

Also, pork still had the threat of trichonosis which is only killed by thorough cooking. Better to overcook than risk serious illness.

[@erzsebetkovacs2527]

Yes. Max might not have had experienced institutional food, which is usually overcooked on account of being made in very large batches.

[@jarvindriftwood]

My thought too. Over time electric ovens can have issues with the heating element or the thermostat and not heat up fully. (Setting it to 350 might only heat to say 275.) Always good to keep a thermometer in there for that reason.

[@pdughi]

They probably didn't. They probably cooked it as pork loin, which is about 10 minutes per pound, and sliced it into chops later. Industrial kitchen recipe for 250-500 people at a time doesn't perfectly translate into home recipes perfectly well.

[@tarbhnathrac2486]

Keep in mind, Max did say he could not find a source for the actual institutional recipes used. The book he used was a cookbook produced by the wives of prison employees. The recipes may or may not have had anything to do with the institutional recipes used.

[@BaeBunni]

The apple pie is pretty much a step or two behind just being an apple crumble Like if you mixed the apple pie ingredients then topped it with oats and brown sugar you got an apple crumble.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

OR a cobbler... Where you do everything like an ordinary pie, including making the crust, EXCEPT that you only lay crust over the top and then bake... ;o)

[@Flying-Maytree]

I would just call that an apple compote myself.

[@gwennorthcutt421]

reminds me of the "dump cake" where you have frozen fruit, cake mix, and then pour soda over it. you're also not supposed to mix the wet and dry together because otherwise it doesnt hydrate and combine right - it needs to soak, and disturbing the flour will compact it, making the liquid slide off

[@tsunamie1015]

All this talk about apple pie, cobbler and crumble really makes me wanna make an apple strudel.

[@franciscopozole]

​@@Flying-Maytree Nah its not a granola on top. You rub flour, butter, oats and sugar together to form rough crumbs. Bake on top of the pie filling in a thick layer. The top browns and the bottom steams in the fruit juices. The best bits are where the juice breaks through and caramelizes sticking the crumble together. Serve with ice cream, custard or even evaporated milk. Tbh you dont really need much fruit just enough to get some moisture and fruity flavour. The crumble is the best bit.

[@xsty1968]

I appreciate the honesty when he tastes the food. You can almost anticipate the “review” by his body language but I like he takes that minute to really taste and review what he’s eating.

[@randywoodworth5990]

A long time ago, when i was in jail, breakfast was stale cereal and warm milk, lunch was a bologna sandwich and a bag of chips, dinner was usually a microwaved tv dinner.

[@E55666]

Unironically better than what my school food was.

[@lisahinton9682]

I've learned so much about Alcatraz over the years but I never knew they had such good food there. Thanks, as always, Max. This was very interesting. By the way, my Kentucky grandmother made that salad in the 1950s through the 1970s. The trick is to almost sliver the onions, and slice the cucumbers very very thinly. Also, she peeled the cucumbers in stripes lengthwise so that when you sliced the cucumbers into rounds, they were alternating colors around the edge. *(Miss you, Granny!)*

[@leeneufeld4140]

My Mom used a fork to score the sides of the cuke to get that same effect :)

[@rabidfurify]

My partner's mother makes a very similar cucumber "salad" but with cream cheese added to the dressing / sauce which makes the whole thing just about hold its own weight so you can put it in a fancy mold. It also tastes delicious!

[@leeneufeld4140]

@@rabidfurify That does sound yummy :)

[@maddieb.4282]

@@leeneufeld4140wow I’m going to use this tip, that’s a great idea!

[@CarolBondOldDragonMama]

​@@rabidfurifyOoooo! That sounds really good!

[@Luckmann]

I love Mrs. Robert Murphy's recipe. Nothing weird or deranged about it, just funny and sweet. Honestly your reaction to it says more about you than about her or her guard husband. Nothing "huh?" about it.

[@GeeEee75]

It is a bit weird tho. As if the children are the meat ingredient in a pie.😬

[@Lionstar16]

And poor Max getting utterly bewildered by Mrs Robert Murphy's Well Bread Childen recipe 😂

[@eba44]

poor Max...

[@Vollification]

At this point he seems like one of the people that if you tell them "What happend when the tomatoes crossed the road?" - joke they say "Tomatoes can't talk :/ "

[@Edhelistar]

@@Vollification I feel called out... :P

[@cuttwice3905]

Bred or breaded?

[@chihuahuaphil]

As others have mentioned, the long pork cooking time was probably due to trichonosis worries, but maybe hers weren't that dry. Pork has gotten progressively leaner through the years. In 1952 maybe it was fatty enough to tolerate an hour cook.

[@MegaMagicdog]

Trich isn't an issue if you have properly pastured pork. Pork like beef, is often fed slop in commercial farms and often wander in their own poop. A properly pastured pig roots for its food and is on green clean pasture. In fact the pork meat is red not white! In fact the best pork is Iberico pork - from Spain! It has a slightly nutty flavor because the pigs eat plenty of acorns in their pastures.

[@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger]

Your word placement made me do a doubletake, since "long pork" is a term historically used to describe human meat eaten by cannibal tribes.

[@Getpojke]

​@@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger😂 I did a double take when I read that too.

[@be.A.b]

@@Your-Least-Favorite-StrangerI always thought it was called that, because humans are the second piggiest animals of the animal kingdom. We’ll eat anything! lol. Then I discovered that human meat is said to taste rather pork-like…

[@IlannaRao-kh3kb]

Texan person here, the apple pie really remind me of what we see here in potlucks called a “dump cake” or dump cobbler where you take cake mix and canned pie filling, throw it in a pan with the mix sprinkled on top, cover the whole thing with sliced butter, and you bake it. It comes out super good like a quick cobbler

[@rosenraikov]

Amazing channel. I love your videos, mate. I've been following your channel since it was pretty new, and you never disappoint.

[@carlydryhurst-smith161]

I always find Max so charming but this episode genuinely made me laugh out loud, too. The reaction to Mrs Murphy’s Well Bread Children is perfection ❤

[@sven_86]

yeah i thought she had a good sense of humour lol...

[@howdyhamster]

Reminds me of how, when I was in elementary and middle school, the school food was pretty good. When I got to high school it took a huge nosedive to nearly-inedible. Turns out one of the major food companies had just lost their contract with the prison system for not being good enough, so they made a contract with the school district instead.

[@kateb3259]

Cucumber salad is a summer staple in my family thanks to my Polish grandmother. No evaporated milk but sour cream, dill, lemon juice, a little sugar, garlic, and sliced onions 😊 I wonder if evaporated milk was used because canned goods would last longer and be more convenient on an island you need to ferry everything on to

[@ShalimarPerfume]

I made a no bake Woolworths lemon cheesecake a couple of month's ago, that called for a can of evaporated milk, whipped thick like whipped cream. The trick is to put the can of milk in the fridge for a day and get it really cold. Anyway I 'm a new subscribers and love your food history videos. Oh and no bake Woolworths lemon cheesecake was really good and would make a great food history video on Woolworths lunch counter.

[@Uncommonsensesc]

I just looked that recipe up and it looks really good. I think I'll make it this week. In the directions, the recipe I found said to put the can of evaporated milk in the freezer for 30 minutes, and some of the recipes said to use either the evaporated milk or 1 1/2 cups of heavy whipping cream. Thanks for your post - I'm always looking for good dessert recipes.

[@ShalimarPerfume]

@@Uncommonsensesc Yeah I didn't want to put the can of evap in the freezer in case I forgot about it. LOL. Put in fridge for a day and it will be fine. I hope you have an electric hand mixer or a Kitchen aid for mixing. Unless you got really fast and strong wrists for the whisk. LOL.

[@BTScriviner]

I loved the "well bread" children recipe. It was sweet. It's a poem in the form of a recipe.

[@IreneWY]

What I love about Max - he properly chews his food and really tries it. Other KZbin cooks go "yuuuuum" before the food is even in their mouth.

[@MossyMozart]

@IreneWY - Also, so many cooking shows (TV and KZbin) will tell you the ingredients in a recipe, but not necessarily the quantity because they want you to buy their cookbook. But Mr Miller is not that way at all. He is charming AND generous.

[@IMeMineWho]

​@@MossyMozartand humorous and witty.

[@725Kellybean]

I found your channel today and I have been binging all afternoon. Just ordered the cookbook!

[@the503creepout7]

i make a cucumber salad very similar to this one but use sour cream instead of evaporated milk & add some thin sliced red onion. Mix it all in a bowl with some vinegar, s&p, & a teaspoon of sugar, then(if u have time) refrigerate for a couple hours before serving. Also - cucumber & watermelon combine for a really refreshing salad on hot days.

[@FigureOnAStick]

If I'm having raw onion in a salad, I prefer to soak the slices in cold water for about 10 minutes before draining and mixing them in. The soak leeches out a lot of the sulfates and makes the flavor of the onion a lot more mild so they play nice with the rest of the ingredients

[@sinocte]

On the cucumber salad, I make it all the time, but I use either sour cream or plain yogurt in place of the milk. The thicker dressing coats everything better.

[@arthas640]

One tip I found that's useful for cucumber dishes is salting them first and sticking them over a strainer for awhile. You can rinse the salt off afterwards but it draws a lot of moisture out concentrating the cucumber flavor, the salt that penetrates the cucumber enhances the flavor further, and since they shrink down they become crunchier and more sturdy. That's what they do with many Korean salads.

[@dianebekel9326]

My grandmother would slice the onions thinner. A variation is to do a pickle of the cukes & onions in vinegar/water, salt & pepper. It’s very good either way.

[@mwater_moon2865]

My college room mate from India would grate the cucumber (like on a box grater) then drain it and slice the onions paper thin. But then she'd use yogurt (with paprika!) exactly like this. Interestingly enough, the dressing recipe (minus the salt and paprika) is basically a buttermilk substitute recipe still used in the US South today.

[@joyful_tanya]

Me too! Especially when my garden cucumbers are plentiful. Sour cream, spices and especially dill. It's a German cream cucumber recipe, that I use!

[@stormdolente6542]

Great video! What a cool look into a small but important part of Alcatraz life! When I was in high school, I took a trip to San Fran and got to your Alcatraz. One of the most interesting facts I learned was that Alcatraz was the only prison in the country that gave their inmates hot showers. They believed that if the inmates got used to cold water, they would be more likely to survive a swim to the mainland.

[@GarrickLopez]

Awesome as always. thank you much for interesting videos was actually in San Francisco Bay on a tour boat 7years ago and went by Alcatraz prison a few times unfortunately wasn't able to visit the island but what I seen from the bay left an impression for sure. To me it felt like a very eery place would have liked to tour the prison hopefully someday thanks again sir

[@zenkakuji3776]

Fascinating history of Alcatraz. I would not have expected the food to have been a highlight aspect of life there, but it makes sense after watching this. Mildred's cucumber dressing looks a bit like the beginnings of a ranch dressing. The quickie apple pie sounds good, but I think I would use oat flour and whole oats instead to make something more akin to an apple crumble.

[@PoppycockPrincess100]

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think Mrs. Murphy's recipe is kind of cute.

[@Pawsandtales321]

I think so, too. It seems to have meaning behind it.

[@EvieDelacourt]

As someone who grew up playing outdoors with all of the neighborhood kids and pets, and only returning home once the streetlights started to come on, it's an extremely nostalgic "recipe" for a happy childhood in a simpler time.

[@humblesparrow]

Made me chuckle. His reaction made me laugh out loud.

[@MossyMozart]

@PoppycockPrincess100 - Me, 4th.

[@charlotteshenkenberger345]

Don't worry, your opinion's actually on the more popular end of the scale. The recipe was cute, Miller just either completely missed the point or was making an awkward joke.

[@norathefish3338]

Absolutely love this historical video on my hometown's island prison! Very clever and interesting. Thank you! Keep 'em coming! 😊👤

[@spoonergirl75]

The quickie applie pie is pretty much the same as a dump pie (similar to dump cakes) that we have today. I love it.

[@jordanchristian6329]

Haha that apple pie quickie is the exact same recipe my mom used to make "cobbler". She would just replace the fruit sometimes, apple, peaches, berries. Its a comfort food for me now haha

[@be.A.b]

It is cobbler huh? I just realized that! I guess it was known as “cobbler” in the south, and remained popular.

[@SarafinaSummers]

I do that with milk, baking powder, flour and sugar. Then pour the filling and real butter into the pan. Usually 3-4 tbsp with a shake or two of cinnamon sugar and a good glug of nilla.

[@ReggieArford]

I'd call it more "apple pan dowdy". Delicious, though. (Now I'm hungry.)

[@hollerinwoman]

Yes, it's basically cobbler. Yummy!🙂