An antique dealer and his unsellable treasures

New federal regulations severely limit the trade of antiques with ivory or rhino horn. One New York antiques dealer says the rules target the wrong thing. (Editor's note: Contains a graphic image.)

[@janeday9148]

Somehow these pieces should be in museums and the money should be used to protect these animals not just be destroyed its actually horrific

[@xchemicalXladybugx]

I do think that there should be exceptions with tons of documentation. Pieces that are sold or donated to museums should get a pass as long as it predates any ivory/hunting bans.

[@johnblake4589]

The issue is twofold. Is banning the sale of antique rhinoceros horn and ivory items absurd? Yes, it is. As the man points out it's criminal gangs in Asia and Africa who are the main culprits (although banning big game hunting of elephants and rhinos by western tourists would also be a bonus). However, having working in the antique's world for many years, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that many antiques dealers and art market players have brought this upon themselves. I've seen countless examples of people selling off modern pieces (post 1947) which you can easily see were made recently and either neglecting to mention their age or by describing them as "bone" when they clearly aren't. I've seen this from the smallest of dealers to some of the big players and relatively famous auction houses. It's all greed which has both fed the market and meant that these laws which are, objectively absurd and likely to be ineffective, have come about.

[@julieking5151]

Honestly I believe in the regulations because these items were ill gotten, even if it was 100’s years ago. It’s time! Were they art? Yes they are, but at a terrible expense. If there afe no regulations these things continue to be desired and collected and you know what happens with supply and demand. Shut it off, that’s the only way.

[@brmbkl]

true. the argument "the problem are the bandits" doesn't hold up. there's even an analogy with the Sacklers and the opioid crisis.

[@sophieartmusic]

I like antiques and will not buy anything ivory. I can’t admire an artwork that came about from slaughtering a beautiful creature. there is no beauty in that.

[@brazenhammer3307]

So if someone has passed down ivory and is starving they can't sell it?

[@hendrixlucas6519]

You are just been greedy, you wanted to make profit out of these artifacts by saying that it should belong to the places of origin

[@umairahmed2248]

I have a water glass 120 years ago can I sealing it

[@nat00ben06]

As beautiful as ivory is and these rhino horns are carved, can't deal in them. It will certainly promote poaching & the extinction of these animals if you do. World wide boycott of ivory and rhino horns now and forever!

[@PeterCombs]

You argument makes about as much sense as banning the sale of antique flintlocks to help reduce mass shootings with assault weapons. Buyers of antiques simply aren't interested in modern examples. They want the art and the history, not copies.

[@roberthealy8519]

Peter Combs I agree Peter, my father was an antique clock dealer, who would drag me to acution, esstate sales,and such as a child. I as an adult now, I appreciate what I learned from the hands on education. I have some TABOO item's left to me such as this and WW2 items that schould not be destroyed but put in a collection.

[@acosta829]

@@PeterCombs wrong analogy

[@johnblake4589]

@@PeterCombs Apologies sir but I think that's a pretty poor example. Nobody would use a flintlock to shoot someone (be it an antique or a modern copy/replica). They fire a shot a minute and you have more chance of blowing your own hand off than actually hitting something. For this reason, no body with any braincells is even asking for such a law. Even in the countries with some of the strictest gun control around (UK, etc.) you can own a flintlock and other antique arms because they're simply not a threat. The problem isn't so much what collectors want as what's being sold. Unfortunately, I'm sure you've seen this as well, there are many, many dealers and even auction houses who completely ignore CITES and other rules and laws and who sell modern pieces of ivory and horn which you can easily tell were made yesterday (or near enough). They'll either neglect to mention the age or claim they're made out of "bone". Obviously, that isn't the case for the gentleman in the video. I believe it's that greed and stupidity which has brought about some of these laws. Are the going to be efficient? No, of course not, 99.9% of the problem is in both Asia and Africa but it might at least cut down on some of the demand and mean that in the West, we don't come across quite so much as hypocrites telling others what to do whilst doing so ourselves. P.S.: On a completely unrelated note, I greatly admire your channel and videos about Asian art and find them fascinating.

[@syxalite]

@@johnblake4589 Peter Combs is right in the sense those are antiquities, would be stupid to seize them and destroy them if they're old. The thing you are mentioning is why auctions houses ask for certificates, such as Catawiki for example. Unless you have a certificate proving it is older than CITES law (1947), you cannot go and put on the auctions market your ivory

[@tigermoon44]

The travesty is that this man doesn't seem to understand, these animals died and some are at the point of extinction. Who gives a $#!t if it was given as a gift to someone. He wants to make money, plain and simple and he can't. That's his beef, period!

[@rudski3321]

Your an extreme dumbass. These pieces are over 100 years old so in regards to federal regulation in America, if the age can be proved to be over 100 years old, it is legal to sell but shipping internationally is different because of other countries strict regulations. What most people fail to realize is that these items are being confiscated and destroyed rather than preserved which is the stupidest thing humans can do, therefore, with less pieces on the market, they're demand becomes way higher. Each piece that is destroyed rather than preserved is creating a bigger market for the trade, and now the pieces that are traded are not Antiques but rather made from recent poachings.

[@syxalite]

@Abhirath Narasimhan Destroying antique objects will ressuscite the animals? No that won't. We should preservate those antiauities for at lesst two reasons: history, and destroying the thing would be a further more disrespect to the animal who died for making it which already was a disrespect.

[@cancertheindancest3727]

@Abhirath Narasimhan destroying antique pieces will drive the price sky high therefore giving poacher a reason to continue killing. Not only that you are destroying hundreds of years of history by pounding antiques to dust. Its new ivory which should be cracked down on

[@ellenmuseum]

Hes right tho, murderers still out there making money, cruel pix

[@dark4x440]

How about making it legal to sell Ivory and rhino horn, to Africa and especially African museums??? The places of it's origin having high supply and low demand, in the rest of world it's illegal to buy buy not illegal to own so you could go to Africa purchase ivory bring it home and show it off to your friends. Price falls and most ivory comes from elephants that have died from natural causes because there's soo much in its place of origin is effectively worthless.

[@dark4x440]

Paper trail certificate of authenticity, this ivory was purchased in XYZ buy MR and MRS ABC, nobody gives a **** how the Country of XYZ got it? Any ivory can be sold back to its country of origin no issue, but resale is only permitted from those countries to people in those countries at the time of purchase.

[@dark4x440]

I'm sure somebody in Africa will set up an illegal exporting operation but with with the price falling due to the ease of selling it back to its country of origin and the huge supply there, it won't remain viable for long

[@dark4x440]

Perhaps the government could offer a nice wee price boost should you be willing to sell it back to Africa?

[@dark4x440]

Where it could be stamped, sealed, authenticated, and resold without any problems?

[@maksc3781]

You poor boy

[@xyz12345457]

Boo hoo.

[@sandyspiers8494]

Simple,supply and demand.Get the gangs,stop the supply.Ivory value will go high.

[@syxalite]

Which would make the value higher and that is exaxtly why poachers will continue to exist. We should legalise preban ivory (the ones before CITES law against ivory has been implemented in 1947) and sell the stocks that has been 'farmed' until the 1980, 1990 or something. Why? This would make the ivory value go straight down (I believe now the kilogram is around 650 euros, it would go down to almost no value) and poachers won't be interested in this anymore since it would give them almost no money, they're interested if they get money out of it. No poacher -> no elephants killed, and that is what we want Trying to seize the ivory, destructing it, trying to stop the gangs is nearly impossible for two reasons: there always are poachers if there is money on the key, and destructing the ivory is good for them as it makes the material rarer and more expensive For example, in China during the 1850~ a box of ivory chopsticks (around 20-30) valued a few current dollars which definitely isn't a lot, since the ivory was common it didn't value a lot and bsck then people weren't as much interested in money as nowaday people When the ivory started to get rare more poachers existed becsuse it valued more, meaning they get more money out of it The conclusion: The key is dropping the value of ivory, then no poachers would be interested in that anymore. I hope you get the logic

[@brmbkl]

@@syxalite "We should legalise preban ivory" and watch all recent ivory suddenly magically receive authentic documents saying they aren't. paperwork isn't hard.

[@user-md5sp1qt6n]

Nice!

[@khankhan-or1eu]

wana sell antique shawl

[@smartsuccess8887]

Dear Sir / Madam I want to sell my Antique COLLECTION. The Imperial Rare Rhinoceros Horn Dragon cup / bowl of Ming Dinasty chinese. H = 9 cm D = 10 cm Imperial collection Very very Rare Antique and detail Mark period of Ming Dinasty My name : Kandar Address : Jl. Cempaka Putih Jakarta Pusat DKI Jakarta - Indonesia Telp. : [phone] (phone or WhatsApp) Thank you for your kind attention. Regards, Kandar

[@nancycampbellgibson2634]

Talk about living in another world.