AN EPIC ACT I FINALE. Professional Singer Reaction (& ANALYSIS) - Epic: The Musical | "Monster"

[@Vegetafan1997]

The two explanations for the choir I've seen that I've liked is that it's either the souls of the undead around him just adding noise. Or, as he accepts the monster, he is becoming something else that breaks the rule

[@byrtoff]

Yeah I was thinking he's still in the underworld so "all I hear are screams" could be providing the choir. I don't rule out the he's becoming inhuman but I feel like that moment is still coming and is only an idea here.

[@user176q6Hh8]

I like to think of it as the souls of his crew calling him a monster

[@xlarisenroselx]

Honestly, and I know this is a lot less interesting of an explanation, but... This song *is* canonically a monologue. An introspection. A soliloquy. In other words, his internal thoughts. It's entirely possible this choir is (for once in this musical) non-diagetic, and is allowed to be becuz it's just internal thoughts.

[@D___]

After Six Hundred Strike. the idea of him becoming something that breaks the rule certainly has merit

[@xairinimako]

i wonder if its something to do with his mental state, i think in the discord jay had once said that at the part in keep your friends close where ody is sleep deprived, things may not be actually happening as described directly in the lyrics at that stage, because of ody's mental state and the blur between half asleep and awake, would totally make sense that is happening here, maybe the vocal's are ody internalizing that the crew needs him to be a monster so people stop dying

[@eldawhatever]

If you listen carefully, you can hear Tiresias in the background banging his head on a wall mumbling "this is NOT what I meant"

[@AwesomeShinyUmbreon]

*Tiresias watching Ody monologue and thinking back to the last hero he gave a prophecy to* That's it, I quit! I'm not a prophet anymore, no one understands them anyways!

[@astellis11]

this is actually EXACTLY what he meant (I'll not say anymore because SPOILERS)

[@Momo_Minomo]

I'd argue this is the first time Tiresias has someone properly listen and act on the advice he gave.

[@jacksongreen4107]

​@@Momo_Minomo If you're judging from the PoV of "Did it get Odysseus home alive", then yes. If you're judging from the PoV of "Did Odysseus overreact to the prophecy and take drastic action that then caused many deaths, and also the prophecy to come true, just like everyone else who ever gets a prophecy", then...uhhhh...

[@Momo_Minomo]

@@jacksongreen4107 Did he overreact, though? Because I honestly can't think of anything he could have done differently. If he hadn't killed the sirens the crew would have starved far sooner AND the sirens would have led Poseidon straight to them. Scylla's lair was literally the ONLY way to get home with his crew mostly intact and he couldn't warn anyone because they'd already proven he couldn't trust them and Eurylocus has been letting fear and doubt cloud his judgement and make him push back against Ody's authority as king and captain every step. If Eurylocus hadn't rallied the crew to mutiny Ody's ruthlessness with the Sirens and Scylla would have gotten all but 6 of the remaining men home safely. And after being betrayed multiple times, stabbed, and imprisoned I wouldn't have chosen to die for the crime he BEGGED them not to commit either. And as Odin of Norse Mythology proved, trying to avoid a prophecy is just as likely to make it come true. The prophet told him this was a way he was sure to make it home and trusted and listened and the man was right. It was Eurylochus' choices, not Ody's, that led the men to not make it, too.

[@FiggyMcSickle]

I can't listen to 'Monster' without seeing the little animatic I saw that was Hades just trying to read in bed and he can hear Ody freaking out and going full angst beast

[@malenaseiguer2081]

I think that the rules of the choirs don’t hold when Odysseus is inside his own head. Just as he could summon Penelope’s and Telemachus’ voices when he fell asleep in Keep your Friends Close

[@LoreCatan]

18:15 I love Gigi's choice here to have Penelope's illusion take off Polites' bandana that Ody took off his body when he died. It's technically non-canon, since the songs weren't written with visual symbolism in them at the time (since the new sagas have commissioned animatics this is no longer the case), but I think the meaning is very potent. I like how so many animators chose to have Ody take Polites' bandana in "Remember them" that it just became a fan-canon understood by many, and Gigi took advantage of it here by having it taken off representing Ody's rejection of Polites' philosophy and ideals, by turning into the "Monster". If Epic ever becomes big enough to gain an actual stage production or a more cohesive animation, I wish they will keep this bit in and make it canon, like how Mircsy's winion design became canon. It would be awesome.

[@Oznerock]

I honestly think that having visuals in *mind* is making the end-product worse frankly. Spoilers: It was really fun seeing all the very different interpretations on previous sagas, and I think Jorge thinking too much about the visuals might have been a part of the first half of 300 hundred strike being a bit awkward (How does one plan on making that work on stage???). Same as get in the water being Poseidon trying to convince Ody to try to take a dive, but ending the song by just yeeting him into the water anyways.

[@pichutube]

​@@OznerockI see what you mean but at the same time these songs are all already written, so it's not like having the visual element is changing the lyrics. Most of the work between sagas is on things like recording and mixing, with maybe some changes being made if needed.

[@sethevett950]

Ever since you said you like the darker tones at the start of Epic, I’ve been waiting with bated breath for this episode to arrive.

[@salamander458]

literally 😭 the songs from here on out?? he isn’t ready 😂

[@lesyeuxdelisa6556]

oh then he will LOVE vengeance saga lmao

[@reubenproctor9344]

would you say... you've been waiting for this moment, for the perfect time to strike?

[@aadityayanamandra8846]

The music being in triplets is intentional! Poseidon's music also makes use of triplets- it's EPIC's signifier of monstrous behavior.

[@Scottypotroast]

One cool theory I've heard about the choir is that even though Odysseus isn't powerful enough to summon it, "the monster" is and that is how there is choir.

[@disableddragonborn]

I honestly believe it, especially after something that I saw in the Vengeance Saga livestream visuals that I (obviously) won't spoil. As Hermes's great grandson, he's 1/8 god, so after he abandons his humanity in the Underworld and embraces the Monster, that's all that's left of what was once Odysseus. Without a conscience or empathy, he becomes more powerful.

[@CrimWare]

I'd assume the choir you're hearing is the souls of the underworld, but I can't be too sure to confirm that

[@TearsOfLa]

I beleive the reason Odyssues can summon a shoir in this instance is that none of this is really happening, its all in his head. He is hearing the voices of his dead friends, the voices of doubt, vocal representations of his different thought processes and emotions

[@wnnbstrdst]

from my understanding the "choir from thin air" might be indication of odysseus and crew still being in underworld, which is not part of mortal world, and is a magical realm, so "choir" could be indication of not a character that is divine, but a place that is magical

[@ravenscamander]

Oh I like that explanation!

[@smalltrashman4227]

"You fooooolss... I'm never done analyzing 😈" made me crack up so bad lol. You're hilarious 😂

[@salamander458]

i love that we’ve all just collectively adopted the “Ody” nickname 😂 it’s perfect haha

[@IcecreamCat23]

Right? I remember reading this book for high school and he seemed so distance. Now, he feels like my good buddy Ody

[@TearsOfLa]

One thing I love (and i believe Gigi confirmed that they intentionally did this to prepare for doing the visuals in Monster) is that the "Monster Ody" we see here is the same one we see confronting him during "Just a Man", this blackened shadow soldier version of himself that will do horrible things to get home safely In just a man, it shows up just before he resolves himself to kill the infant, here he fully embraces it. This "Monster Ody" motif appears in some other animations too to draw on the idea of madness or aggression, specifically I see it in a few "No longer you" animatics for future ody and the suitors, and in a few God Games animatics that I wont describe for spoiler reasons

[@Kiv0143]

"Ody is 1/4 Hermes... or sth" Yes, he has that vibe in him!

[@icemagiciangh]

“Good job you’re a liar!” Just like your ancestor 😂

[@Caedus696]

1/8 but yeah

[@rhov-anion]

Ody is best when he's a clever trickster. He got that from his great-grandfather, the biggest troll on Mount Olympus.

[@Kiv0143]

@@rhov-anion admittedly, that is also what gets him into most trouble. So same as the ammount of hermees in him, his schemes are abou to work 1/8 or 1/4 of the time

[@kallandar13]

@@Kiv0143As per the Iliad and Odyssey, it’s more than a quarter of the time, on aggregate. Dude’s moment of hubris with Polyphemus led to a lot of trouble, but that encounter also got them all fed. The windbag worked until the crew went against his orders. He successfully beat Circe and got his men back, AND got her help going to seek Tiresias. The siren plan worked, as did Scylla-in the Odyssey, the crew even knew and agreed to go by Scylla. Slaughtering the cow was another decision by the crew against his direct orders which led to their deaths. Ody has a great track record, statistically speaking, so long as the crew doesn’t disobey him. Many of the things that went wrong were entirely out of his control, but his history of making decisions is still unusually good.

[@samclark7116]

“This is a very healthy message” - top ten quotes that didn’t age well

[@astra1627]

Ody did self reflection wrong 🫣🫣

[@fothorso]

When was this xD

[@kallandar13]

@@fothorsoGetting into enemies’ heads and seeing their perspective, during the “Is the cyclops struck with guilt…” bit

[@ShirokamiHichino]

What i love with this song is Jay spoiled it totally in Just a Man... "I would trade the world to see my son and wife", he always was the monster, he did drop the child and kill who he had to to get there. He's just not doing it anymore with a kind heart, he won't try to understand others anymore. That brang a lot of thoughts to me, i will probably share them if needed when it won't lead to spoiling ideas.

[@dolphin64575]

"I'm never done analyzing" and that's why I'm subbed ❤

[@desirqble]

Penelope ripping off Polites headbands (leaving behind Welcoming the world with to open arms) still hurts me every time 😭😭😭😭

[@TearsOfLa]

I would love to see Peter and Casper do a collab and just tear apart music to the most fundamental level. I feel like together they could write a thesis level analysis of any 3 minute song haha

[@CarlosAlvarez-dp4nz]

MONSTER RAWR RAWR RAWR

[@kalzekdor]

1:22 That's the exact same intro as the Horse and the Infant song at the beginning of the act! We've literally come full circle.

[@crimsonmaverick8237]

Ooop looks like we’re getting this after vengeance!

[@baldberryz]

There are really 2 types of background choirs in Epic: Wordless choirs which function more as an instrument than anything, and as such can happen nondiagetically. I'm not sure if Jorge actually uses like samples, or MIDIs of choirs, or if he does actually have people sing them, but these have appeared in several songs before when there weren't any gods or anything diagetic to explain them. Then we also have true background vocals, like the ones in No Longer You, etc. which pretty much always have words tied to them. These are the ones that only happen diagetically, or because of the Gods/higher than mortal beings. From my understanding the big differential between these 2 types is that the diagetic one will always have words, and thus NEED a reason to be in the song, while the non-diagetic ones don't. The choir you were talking about at 5:12 is the non-diagetic instrumental choir, but the vocals backing Ody up at the end were probably diagetic ones. For this song in particular, there are a few different theories: Odysseus giving an internal monologue and being able to channel these background vocals because they're not technically real; The bg vocals being the souls of the dead following Ody; Odysseus becoming more than human in this moment since he's becoming the Monster

[@tammyt3434]

Choir? Didn't you hear the warning? The Underworld messes with your mind.

[@Kamarovsky_KCM]

Besides what everyone has said about the choir, I think also that this god/mortal rule applies mostly just to the actually-sang choir parts, and not they synth choirs

[@ShyyGaladriel]

Oh boy you’re gonna love love love the next saga! I’m so excited for you.

[@mikefeltes5983]

This is also in mind. So it’s not being vocalized out loud which is a potential reason for the choir. That was my original take. I have another take based on something that happens later but I won’t say more.

[@jonathangaming7510]

The backround choir is likely just counted as an instrument, snd not tehcnically bsckong vocals, you hear it in several songs eithout gods. But tthe chorus singing "monster", my theory is that because this song is pretty much just odysseus's inner thoughts, hes able to summon the choir in his head

[@ugxsan]

I kinda like Casper’s argument that synth voices count as an instrument and not a chorus, but I also like the theory that it’s Ody becoming less human and adding some choir to this song.

[@PleaseElaborate]

This is my favorite animatic in the entire musical so far (and I've seen through the vengeance saga). From the symbolism of Ody integrating his shadow to the expression on Poseidon's face suggesting he gains no pleasure in his ruthlessness but can't afford to risk people no longer fearing his domain. It's all just so well done. GOATed IMO.

[@revanhart]

Fun little fact that I think you might appreciate: if you have all of Act 1 on its own playlist and you set it to repeat, the end of Monster flows SEAMLESSLY in the beginning of The Horse and the Infant! The note it fades out on after the horn blares (also horn is Poseidon’s instrument, Poseidon = ruthlessness; therefore horn blaring = acceptance of ruthlessness) is the same exact note that The Horse and the Infant fades IN from. Just an amazing little thing Jay did to bring the whole act full circle! 😊

[@supermom7433]

At 3:15 "I'm surrounded by the the souls I've lost" I believe the choir is the fallen crew.

[@strixnixx]

Me losing my mind every time he paused and went back right before the drop. I have been waiting for this reaction/analysis! Looking forward to the next saga!

[@galadballcrusher8182]

He said he is surrounded by the souls of those he lost....

[@viviancavazos5569]

I think I agree with everyone here the choir is the souls of his dead soldiers cause they can hear him versus the crew that is still alive.

[@MidnightSunna]

Omg I'm so happy you're releasing this today, especially with the new saga out. no spoilers but I can't wait for you to get through act 2

[@Archangel1862]

Here’s a slightly disturbing thought about the Underworld saga. Everyone who died and will die is trapped on the wrong side of the River Styx because they were never given proper funeral rites so they can never be judged to go to the Isle of Bless, Elysium, the Fields of Asphodel, or get the chance to be reborn.

[@Tioko]

I think that random “ooo” and “aaa” don’t really count as background vocals, but part of the soundscape. They aren’t backing up Odysseus, they’re just doing their own thing. Gods can summon choruses that speak and do proper singing. Also, they are in the Underworld, and it’s the same type of choir Tiresias had. Aka, probably souls of the damned.

[@SamuelRawlinson-yb2ez]

Cool connection with the rising triplets!! Jay made a video pointing out that he uses that triplet pattern to convey ruthlessness, so you’ll find it in Poseidon’s songs, and by and by more on Ody’s

[@Pmanamuttering]

Ody's- backing vocal are that he is so haunted by the narrative it provides the oooohs and ahhhhs.

[@jdstaton4677]

Awesome call back to the aria ... but I had also heard that Jorge was a fan of Lin-Manuel Miranda ... when you were talking about the triplets ... you could also kind of hear the beat from another song ... but this one is from a Disney movie (which Lin-Manuel wrote) ... 'Surface Pressure' from Encanto

[@SM-fz3et]

Love the (understandable) praise for Ody's perspective in the beginning... but me knowing the baby line is coming...

[@sleepyboi_blue8984]

I honestly believe the thundersaga is the best one so far (they're all fantastic!) and am so so excited for Peter to react to it!!!

[@amelieroulleau3592]

Also, Peter, today the Vengeance Saga came out (Saga 8) and it's sooooo good and I'm excited for you to get to it!!!!

[@SongOfTheCrane]

I've always assumed it's the dead crew. Their only words are to call him a monster repeatedly, otherwise it's non-vocal harmonies. (Unless I've totally overlooked something.)

[@codewordbw3340]

From what i remember, my best explanation is that theres a difference between the background choir and backup vocals. Background vocals are made by humans irl singing backup voices for characters, usually with words or other vocalizations. The background choir, however, is potentially made synthetically in a music program where they just input the pitch. Its the background vocals that need to follow the rule, because it is diagetic with real people singing it. However the background choir is more of an "instrument" since its artificial and wouldnt actually be sung by people on stage. Iirc, its present in other songs as well without gods present, but i dont know which ones off the top of my head Another explanation i thought of as well is just that this is all in Ody's head when hes thinking to himself anyway. So he can imagine anything he wants for music

[@karma_pup]

Little late (I started watching when you released and then had a busy weekend ;-;) But I always enjoy your analysis, especially when you tie what you're hearing to your world of opera. I loved the little snippet you showed us and how similar it was to what we were hearing. Always so GOOD

[@acheykai]

Casper actually had a theory that there are 2 types of choir. There is the choir led by people singing, these would be the diagetic/ non-diagetic voices by either god or mortal. Then there's the synth choir, which is basically just an instrument (probably played on a piano). I think that's what you were talking about at the start but later on with the "Monster" line sung in choris, I think that's either the souls of the underworld (most likely) or Ody is self reflecting, that's what he's imagining, that people will call him a monster. OR again it's literally the **Monster** singing to him, a monster isnt mortal, therefore, it wont follow mortal rules.

[@CosmereInformant]

So some of the lyrics appear to be directly addressed to his men, and they seem fully aware of his mindset change in later songs. I always assumed he was singing this to/near them, and that’s why he gets backing vocals

[@spaceartiste2496]

Personally, I like to think that the choir is either the souls of the dead crew calling him a monster, or his own guilt causing him to hear them calling him a monster inside his own mind. As we established in The Underworld, the crew actually blamed Odysseus in their final moments, so either is very possible. Hearing the voices of all the men he failed calling him a monster would certainly fuel his thoughts of "I tried to be kind to my enemies, but it only made me a monster to my friends." Being kind to enemies got his friends killed, so to reach any kind of happy ending, he must get his priorities straight and be ruthless towards anything that threatens what he wants most. I really like the idea, because it means that the choir is not just backing Odysseus up musically, but is actually having a psychological impact on him and pushing him down this spiral that he has entered.

[@PleaseElaborate]

The tension at the intro is the same as in the very first song 'the horse and the infant'. It could be there to indicate a new beginning, or yet another call-back to the overarching theme of the entire musical: When does a man become a monster?

[@SnoozyPenguin]

16:58 I just realized when odysseus goes to shake the hand of she shadow figure she shakes it with the wrong hand 😂

[@Iejir_Isk]

Love gigi's animatic for monster... In terms of the choral adds, I have (possibly cause of gigi's setup) thought it was the monster's doing, not Ody's. Also, RIP Polites band (and Penelope at the end as she vanishes)

[@aadityayanamandra8846]

The choir is the dead crew in the underworld. They're calling him a monster because they see him as the one who got them all killed.

[@Momo_Minomo]

Odysseus is making the conscious choice, here, to reject his humanity and embrace the "monster" inside him as part of the divine blood he inherited as a grandson of Hermes so he's beginning to do the things only gods and monsters have been able to do up til now, like having that divine choir echoing in his words. From here on you'll notice Gods and Monsters will increasingly treat him more like they would another monster and talk to him more like an equal than they did before. The songs Scylla, Thunder Bringer, Love In Paradise, and Six Hundred Strike showcase this especially.

[@wolfglue]

I’m not sure if jay was referencing what you thought, but I do know that the triplets are intentional! Jay has explained once that epic uses triplets to signify ruthlessness, which is why characters like Poseidon have triplets in their music!!!

[@forlornshadowdragon]

Awesome break down as always. I love hearing everyone's perspectives on these songs! **I don't think the next part is a spoiler but I am being VERY careful** Coming to this reaction after hearing the new saga is an experience.

[@TiradeBombastic]

Having just watched the livestream of Vengeance, you're gonna go wild!

[@timothyblack1098]

The choir are the souls of those he's lost. Though this has not been confirmed as far as I know.

[@wickedgaming9632]

dont forget he is STILL in the UNDERWORLD during the song. that could be the choir source

[@MasslessPhoton-ii5mk]

I’d just like to say, nobody ever points out how similar the beginning of Monster is to the beginning of The Horse and the Infant

[@dorothygale9648]

Crew is there, just in the background.

[@amelieroulleau3592]

I like the "he's in the underworld, the souls of the dead are backing him up" idea

[@Salinaut]

Really thinking about the instrumental intro, and just the general arrangement, this very much feels like a Linkin Park song, if not entirely with the slower start, but I can picture "Is the cyclops struck with guilt..." etc being a Mike Shinoda rap, but then returning to Chester with "then I'll become the monster" It was a totally random thought, but it suits, in my head. lol

[@Arixandrine]

Since every song in the underworld has a choir, i can only imagine it's because of the souls, Tiresias got a choir to back him up and he's not a god either, and the second Odysseus ship entered the underworld a choir started too, so i think it's just a property of the underworld!

[@gabewasp776]

At first I was thinking that the choir is possibly the souls in the underworld but then I remembered someone say (not sure if this is right or not, don't know if anything is confirmed) that it's all in his head so that's why theirs a choir

[@ravenscamander]

"I think this is a healthy message" Oh dear. Oh no

[@lucarioaura4943]

11:27 polites glasses 😢😊

[@MoniCu92]

Where? I can't see them?

[@Orion_44]

@@MoniCu92 bottom right of the scene at 9:20, not sure what that timestamp is supposed to be

[@MoniCu92]

@Orion_44 Oh thanks, I saw that pair, but I was trying to find them at the timestamp too. Thought I was going blind haha ☺️

[@AllieKitaguchi]

I think this is my favorite song in the entire series (though I'll hold my tongue until the final saga comes out) and I definitely think the Underworld saga is my favorite! absolutely breathtaking songs!

[@IcecreamCat23]

One explanation to add on to the growing list in the comments is that it’s the monster singing with Ody. Soft. Underlying.

[@valerie_chu]

"We do know Ody is like 1/4 Hermes" 😭

[@ericsanford536]

Odysseus in the key of sad.

[@Mijal15]

My personal reasoning for the choir (which many others of stated) is this is in his head and he is hearing these voices. There is another moment in an upcoming song people there is backing vocals from dead characters and while there is a goddess present it wouldnt make sense for her to summon them. I think he is just starting to hear those voices all the time due to his trip through the underworld traumatizing him further.

[@junkaccount3482]

This is gonna sound like a bit much, but I don't care lol, I never feel more spiritual than when I find stuff like this. I truly see G-d in this kind of skill, this kind of mind and soul able to create like this, it's just....one in a million. Jorge is a miracle wrapped in a human being.

[@agent941]

there are a few ideas. some saythe backing is the crew. some say it is the souls of the underworld. but i like the idea that he is about to become something that is no longer human

[@dorothyrosenberg1301]

Am I the only one who’s curious about the hint of Athena’s presence in this song? Thank you for this analysis.

[@workchannel8053]

I'm pretty sure the intro effect is the exact same as Horse and Infant; when this comes up on shuffle I always think it's going to be Horse and Infant until it falls away.

[@revanhart]

Fun fact: if you have all of Act 1 on its own playlist and you set it to repeat, the end of Monster flows SEAMLESSLY in the beginning of The Horse and the Infant!

[@allykat2.015]

A nice little Halloween treat.🎃

[@justinfralin301]

If you listen to the opening note of Horse and an infant, and the closing note of Monster.... I mean you tell me

[@AlexSilverCat]

Let it be noted that Ody's character arc is not a rainbow, but a swooping dip. We just his the lowest (metaphorical and musical) notes.

[@Cabin7daughterofthesun]

I think the choir is because they're in the underworld so maybe the souls are the choir

[@HaydenFawks]

The choir are the souls of the damned in the underworld

[@amelieroulleau3592]

Is "Monster" from Epic the musical functionally the same "Hurricane" from Hamilton?

[@kennethmorgan8795]

Everyone else has said the most accepted answers to the choir so I'll just say 1/8th Hermes: Autolycus (grandpa) 1/2 Hermes, Mommy 1/4, Ody 1/8.

[@dominicbroome9381]

Beautiful

[@songsayswhat]

Is the choir the dead he's seen?

[@gabrijelakelec4361]

Love your reactions and analyzing. Out of curiosity have you ever thought of reacting to Eurovision songs?👀 And If so May I recommend songs from my country Serbia? We have many beautiful songs and I curious how you'd see them and your thoughts on their musical compositions.

[@OneTrueNecromancer]

That aria bit reminds me of the xmen theme

[@felixhenson9926]

So like. I'm sorry to ask this Peter or anyone in the comments but if I'm AFAB and my range is VERY similar to Jorge's, the notes in this song are just about on the edge of my range whereas the characteristic a flat belts you sspeak about feel v much in my comfortable range. I can a fair amount higher than that but I need to work on my breath support to stop it sounding so breathy the higher i go. Anyway what range is that for a vocalist? If for a male vocalist it's a tenor what is it if you're AFAB?

[@yuukinoyuki9064]

"This is a really healthy message" 😂😂😂 if you say so...

[@nicholasthomas.7553]

yoooo

[@lloydbernasol491]

I can't wait for you to listen to scylla!! I'll be waiting for your next upload❤️❤️

[@lucasdallabara7132]

Peter, React to: She's Gone - Steelheart.

[@NamelessProof]

I see a man who gets to make it home alive, but its no longer you...

[@saiuhh5280]

react to winter without you first take by xg please !