An Honest Conversation w/ Jonathan Pageau

[@Yallquietendown]

I’m thankful for the orthodox internet. I heard many perspectives that I wouldn’t have had In Real Life. I found Fr Peter heers, Constantine Zalalas, plus WAWTAR! If I only dealt in real life I’d be stuck with whatever I heard from the local yokels- I wouldn’t have even found the local church without the internet. I think a mix of both is good !

[@thebluedan]

Some of us that are interested in orthodoxy don’t live any where near an Orthodox Church/ community... One of the reasons i don’t subscribe that they are THE church. They just aren’t in enough places borne to support their exclusivity.

[@orthodoxboomergrandma3561]

Me too!

[@zenden6564]

Speaking for myself living in a remote region, having access to Jonathan's conversations has been truly wonderful and it has introduced me to many people that are truly worth a person's time to know and understand. In short it's been a life enhancing experience, so a big heart felt thank-you from me. God bless.

[@nodakrome]

Two of my favorite KZbinrs!

[@Stephanie-el4sx]

Same 100%

[@anya7014]

i love these two, God bless them

[@ronwood788]

Excellent, this is a good conversation whenever I see these two.

[@doughilton2383]

Jonathan, the way you handled yourself in your conversation with Brett Weinstein took patience, courage, and intellect… and Brett displayed the same thing, but not necessarily in that order. You both are inspiring to my thought process

[@SahrNabieu-p8b]

Great men! So impressive🥰

[@SteveBedford]

35:00 You can be lead to the Church on the internet, but you can't go to the Church on the internet.

[@jeremyfirth]

47:00 Along the lines of the thousand people who are watching and being affected as John V and Jordan P are working through their own stories: for me, I am also realizing that I was spoiled by Hollywood (and even by books) into forgetting that difficult and complex stories take a very long time to play out. Even in our culture (especially in our culture) we can see the decline and we all know that it's on a crash course for falling apart, but what I'm realizing is that the fall of Rome wasn't an event. It was a long decline, with some definite mile markers and punctuation points, but the death of something great also happens in fits and starts, in slow motion, then all of a sudden.

[@joekelly-oneil9015]

One the most personally useful episodes yet

[@stephaniejoy3633]

This was a great conversation - authentic and relevant to what it means to truly help and be of service in the world.

[@cyndibee2289]

That was wonderful. Thank you, gentlemen.

[@lisaonthemargins]

WAWTAR deserves more views

[@johnheers6220]

Love to you sister!!

[@hempenasphalt1587]

What is WAWTAR

[@johnheers6220]

Why are we talking about rabbits… the name of our pod.

[@orthodoxboomergrandma3561]

This shed a needed light on JP for me. I enjoyed gaining a greater understanding of the inner process that underlies how he approaches people. Thank you!

[@feeble_stirrings]

Great conversation. You guys have good connection/interpersonal dynamic, probably need to connect in real life for a beer!

[@johnheers6220]

A beloved thing indeed!

[@crakhaed]

Wish it could have been longer! I've been spoiled by such lengthy shows that under an hour feels like it was just scratching the surface. Very interesting conversation though. Touched on things we don't hear about a lot. I still love the idea of fractal falls from the garden of eden. That is so neat. Not, like, *good*, but so wild that you can trace these connections from ancient religion and actually have them come into history and relatively recent times like the 1800s.

[@nodakrome]

The entire last part of the conversation I keep hearing, "Come and see."

[@johnheers6220]

Gosh it is always so hard to just say it that way but it is utterly so! Maybe that’s the point right? Maybe the altar ends up being the only real place left on earth in the end… much love nodakrome!

[@orthodoxboomergrandma3561]

Here at the Union of All Orthodox Christian Healing Arts Center we will be hosting our first guest for an extended stay this week! I loved this conversation. I sometimes ask God to let this cup pass from me as I feel very old suddenly post covidiocy. But He will bring folks here at a pace we can handle I think!

[@johnheers6220]

Aha! Now I know!

[@jakemarsnik6238]

I really loved your comment about West Africans trying to figure all of this Western stuff out. It reminds me of something I see every time I go to Freetown: Orange, the cell company, has a billboard in Freetown which has a silhouette of a Sierra Leonean family next to the phrase: "Beach life is our way of life." Look, there is not a single Sierra Leonean family in Sierra Leone who would say that. Even among the rich ones. The ad, given it's context, is completely absurd. There's other examples here too and once you see how strange the marketing/consumer/wealth culture is here, it somehow becomes obvious how strange it is in general I think...

[@samuelreiter6412]

I hope they can learn from our mistakes.

[@jakemarsnik6238]

"I have to smell you or something" - John Heers, April 2022

[@DouglasHorch]

I still can't believe you and Fr. Peter are brothers.

[@johnheers6220]

In a good or bad way lol…

[@DouglasHorch]

@@johnheers6220 Ha! I'm sure it's like your mother would say that you're each special in your own ways.

[@tga253]

@@johnheers6220 you're Fr Peter Heers brother?? Wow..I've learnt so much from his KZbin channel, God bless you both 🙏

[@orthodoxboomergrandma3561]

Your brother has promised to visit soon! You can come too! 😉 Let’s embody community!

[@johnheers6220]

Where are we going? I love a good adventure!

[@alexandragaughan-campbell218]

@@johnheers6220 this is me, Alexandra Union. Maiden name was Gaughan, and Campbell in first marriage. My name on here changes depending on what device I am using, lol. Anyway, please come to visit the Union of All Orthodox Christian Healing Arts Center located in the San Jose Candle Company (since 1998) 8000 square foot warehouse in Jamestown California. We have built a center with a 700 square foot ballroom for conferences, retreats, art shows, music performances etc. Also there is a 400 square foot library/gift shop/hospitality/prayer room, two infrared saunas and a floatation therapy tank (think: the Dead Sea in a Box.) We have about 40 olive trees and other fruit trees on our 1.7 acre place in a very rural industrial park near the iconic Red Hills. I found two caves in the Red Hills for prayer and its great for hiking, walking, even horses. We are in the process of getting a manufactured home to put down here so that we can host more people and we have two RVs. We will be applying to build a small RV park too! Inside the warehouse we have a new (2019) icon print mounting shop and I have an encaustic (beeswax painting) art studio. I want people to be able to come here, stay and make their own art while praying and eating together as community. I pray that people can get a taste of hesychia here by using the facilities and the cave! Fr Peter knows about us and I have been his student since he really ramped up his youtube teaching a few years ago. He is very busy with publishing as you know but I just keep praying that God will bring him in His time! If you are ever in desperate need for material I would submit to an interview! LOL!!! If you could visit or correspond you can email me at [e-mail] (I just relinquished my clinical psychology license but am here to assist people as a co-struggler in the Orthodox Way.) May God bless you and all your endeavors!

[@michaelparsons3007]

You mean we actually have to go out and live this stuff with other people? Well, ok then. Let’s do it.

[@oneofmany7051]

To me, the block chain prayer thing seems like the modern day version of the Catholic church selling indulgences.

[@johnheers6220]

This is so insightful… and it won’t end well either 😐

[@WhiteStoneName]

Maybe we needed to eat from the Tree of Life (the Cross) *first* before we ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We can’t know properly, until we become fully human and die with Christ.

[@hobbsmatt]

I totally agree with John’s point at the end about people not coming to orthodoxy because of one more rationalist argument. I read CS Lewis and many others, making what seemed to me to be the best rationalist arguments for the existence of god that I had ever come across, And that rational part of myself was impressed but not convinced. That part of me is just too talented at playing devils advocate. What felt like it flipped the switch for me were Jonathan‘s ontological/phenomenological descriptions of the centrality of consciousness in the structure of being, Which sounds like a bunch of scientific words, but it’s really just a perspective shift away from rational materialism. And that is still ongoing, but… It definitely was not a rationalist argument that started the process for me

[@heavythingslightly]

Me too! Mere Christianity in a mud hut kicked it all in… but crying at an Orthodox wedding alongside non Orthodox friends, also just bawling… that cinched the beginning of the middle… and so on and so on! May it all end with more and more…

[@hobbsmatt]

@@heavythingslightly I hear that. But what drew me to you and Pageau in the first place was being by the deathbed of my father-in-law (a rather Old World Lebanese Antiochian Orthodox peace activist), and just being *completely* blown away by the grace under completely intolerable situations. Mouthing “praise God” to us through the ventilator tube and joking with us *as he was dying* I mean, come on… I had no choice but just being drawn into orthodoxy

[@lightoftabor]

🙏☦️🙏

[@orthodoxboomergrandma3561]

Have you read Foundations of Christian Culture by Ivan Ilyin?

[@johnheers6220]

I have, well, I have read parts. It’s here in my shelf a gift from Nicholas Kotar. Gotta dig back in!

[@aidan4062]

43:18 "We've been accused of sending the guy to church- thank you very much- and then the guy is just assassinating the priest with every thought" Thank you for this belly laugh moment 😂

[@Orandu]

04:05 It won’t end in flood

[@heavythingslightly]

First Things Foundation is hiring for Mozambique! - first-things.org/opportunities Hey everyone! We were very grateful to have Jonathan back on the show and highly recommend checking out his podcast and work at: thesymbolicworld.com/ Please drop a like, share this up, and subscribe - it really helps us grow and share our work (including our projects around the world) with all of you. Much love to all of you!

[@orthodoxboomergrandma3561]

Vervaeke! As a psychologist I want to love him but it hurts my brain. I’ll stick with St Isaac the Syrian and other patristic sources. I’d love people who left toxic churches or cults come here to find healing!

[@WhiteStoneName]

1:35 I have some perennialism going as well! 😁I actually made a video on the difference btw Christian perennialism and religious pluralism if that whets your whistle.

[@johnheers6220]

Can you send it to me brother!?

[@WhiteStoneName]

@@johnheers6220 sure. It’s just on my personal channel where I basically post extemporaneous thoughts as a journal. And please don’t envy my production value. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d53TpGulqtOfZsU

[@mosesgarcia9443]

Why be Sad at the end of all things. Is a baby sad when its time to leave the Womb. Is a teen sad when High School is over. We have the privilege of a front row seat of the Beginning of The End.

[@Joefrenomics]

I was a bit sad when High School was over…

[@johnheers6220]

True! Maybe it’s proper to be sad with a sweet joy for what is to come… like that? A sweet sadness seems Royal

[@elnino257]

So are they cousins?

[@johnheers6220]

Kinda

[@ChristIsKingPhilosophy]

A message to Pageau: the woke are not like King Saul. King Saul was anointed by God, the moderns and postmoderns weren't.

[@johnheers6220]

Perhaps they are indeed appointed to play a role?

[@ChristIsKingPhilosophy]

@@johnheers6220 Indeed, to show us our follies.

[@grampalettuce6730]

Yeah when it comes to the converts, especially the young men, I notice an unhealthy trend of this "shove it down their throat" mentality where the young men grow out their beards and then go out of their way to talk smack about the heterodox in an attempt to be an Orthodox edge lord. Really really unhealthy and certainly not Orthodox.

[@johnheers6220]

It is indeed a deep temptation…

[@10.6.12.]

This groovy man pass the bong Orthodoxy really sickens me.