Guestsplaining 028: Mr. Jonathan Pageau on Modernity

Guestsplaining 028: Mr. Jonathan Pageau on Modernity
Join Fr. Gregory Pine and Fr. Patrick Briscoe as they welcome artist Jonathan Pageau to Guestsplaining to discuss modernity and tradition.
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[@danrocky2553]

Pageau’s explanation of symbolism was a big step for me coming back to the Church, great to see him on!

[@brandonburns5249]

Same here, especially when he explains how the architecture of a Church and the Mass itself is the way in which reality unfolds. Amazing stuff.

[@AnastasiaR]

Same here. I was an atheist and an artist interested in symbolism and he was speaking my language! He made it impossible to deny the truth of Christ and I returned to the Church after 20 years.

[@kennethrothman5511]

God bless you

[@je-freenorman7787]

thats why I cant stand him He's not right Religion is gross its a con job

[@SarahMc585]

Me too!! It was the first time I really recognized the divine.

[@renaud_gagne]

The new apologist of the church should do what Jonathan does. Not giving us "new ideas" but to give us new eyes.

[@alphabeta8284]

Well said!

[@jamesnuttall2126]

Jonathan Pageau is one of my favorite youtubers, he helped me break out if materialism as well as helped me understand the weirder stuff in scripture that seemed arbitrary to me. Thanks for having him on your podcast!

[@Godsplaining]

Thanks for watching! We loved having him on the show

[@je-freenorman7787]

I think he's got a good presentation and he's obvioulsy a scholar and has been totally deceived with his own ego he strips things down ok, then takes off into la la land with religious beliefs Religion is never going to be real its all for control over ones ego to manipulate others for ones own benifit which is satanic self worship and backwards.

[@cannybullrector3842]

The point at 10:27 about irony, and Jonathan’s response regarding the double irony of Christ’s crowning with the crown of thorns was breathtaking.

[@zenden6564]

In one of his YT's JP goes into that double irony of the crucifixion at length with expanded richness in meaning. Sorry I can't recall which one however...

[@mr.charlesharvey1582]

You cannot be a Jedi; you can be a saint. Brilliant!

[@Patrbrid1]

What a treat to see Jonathan on your channel! His work is so helpful for bringing back the sacred. Fantastic interview.

[@Godsplaining]

Thank you!

[@je-freenorman7787]

why would we need to follow religion?

[@S1llyD1lly]

I’ve never clicked a thumbnail link faster lol

[@marianweigh6411]

Haha yes, worlds collide 🙂

[@zita-lein]

Me, too! Love them all!

[@Godsplaining]

Thanks for watching!

[@valuedCustomer2929]

Same

[@VACatholic]

I love Jonathan. His ability to explain reality allowed me to take Christianity seriously again. That brought me to Aquinas, and the Catholic church's rich intellectual tradition, and back to faith. For that I will be forever grateful. I hope that he is able to go into the belly of the whale and save his father, and bring him back home with him. Deep wounds are hard to heal.

[@je-freenorman7787]

Please say it isnt so? Christianity is like all religion its brainwashing and its not reality People that follow their own beliefs, end up in confusion and end up under government You are not free, when you have others that govern over you All you are doing is accepting your own slavery Religion is a con job thats all its Marginalization

[@VACatholic]

@@je-freenorman7787 what is brainwashing? Where is the truth?

[@je-freenorman7787]

@@VACatholic Brainwashing is being put into your base level consciousness. Taking your identity and replacing it so, you're in confusion and not sure who, what or where you are. You think youre a Christian and follow those rules, instead of a human being, with those natural laws. We as humans, must learn the 1 truth, each and every time, for every occasion. We may measure and record when its confirmed / proven. Asking questions and making mistakes, asking for forgiveness, correcting ourselves and gaining knowledge, which may turn to wisdom. That's learning. Not reading a 2000 year old book of spells, over and over. Or having others read it to you and tell you what it means. The problem is the meta or the belief world, which is harder to measure. We dont really have the proper language to be able to tell others, what it is. Fighting over things, no man may prove, makes no sense You asked "where" is the truth? Its right there, in plain view so, where are you? Asking the right questions, may gain us the right answers

[@VACatholic]

@@je-freenorman7787 does everyone have something "put into their base level consciousness"? How do you know you have the truth, and are not brainwashed? Why do you say i think I'm Christian, and not that I am Christian?

[@je-freenorman7787]

@@VACatholic The black and white checkerboard of freemasonry, displays base level. Once your in it, your in. Not just a piece. There is no such thing as a Christian They do not exist We may confirm things with language

[@orthobro4806]

Jonathan really helped me to see the world with different eyes.

[@doreenvandermerwe2027]

For me at this present time, this is the best Guestplaining ever. Profound, enlightening, thought-provoking and it's also maybe opening up a "can of worms" I might like to keep sealed. Such a challenge for my poor broken brain. Love it!

[@Godsplaining]

Thank you, Doreen! We're happy you enjoyed the episode!

[@therese_paula]

First time to listen to and know about Mr. Pageau. So fortunate to have watched this episode, Mr. Pageau brought forward ideas and connections among these that I did not realize before. Wonderful episode! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@Godsplaining]

Thank you!

[@karenglenn2329]

I am,going to listen to this KZbin at least twice. I work in an assisted living facility. I see 90 year old men with 70 year old tattoos. Talk about encapsuled pass. I am officially old. I give much thought to dying. I wonder what the Beauty of God is. This KZbin will challenge me all the more.

[@prettycatlick4373]

Pretty stoked these guys got together. Pine speaks how I try to write. Pageau thinks the way I dream. I'm terribly in debt to these two.

[@Godsplaining]

Happy you enjoyed the episode, thanks for listening!

[@aiantenor9080]

Thank you for having him. Symbolism Double irony Real meaning of art Hierarchy Tradition Troubleshooting through the Christian worldview Inclusivity vs Exclusivity Comicon 😅 Confession Liturgy These are my takeaways.

[@aiantenor9080]

one of the best episodes

[@Godsplaining]

@@aiantenor9080 Thank you!

[@zita-lein]

You hooked a big fish when you got Jonathan Pageau. Good interview, but much, much too short. When you have someone this good, where topics can be deep and profound, you need to open it up a lot more. 60-90 minutes. But still, good job!

[@jeanlanz2344]

Great insights, Jonathan Pageau. Thank you and God bless you and Fr Gregory and Fr Patrick.

[@fenderbenter89]

Yeah, no MCU movie will top this crossover event.

[@KillerKabel]

Moses went up the mountain and retrieved the rules. Pageau went up the mountain and retrieved the symbolic patterns.

[@olgakarpushina492]

Rules ARE the embodied symbolic patterns

[@aiantenor9080]

There is this grand liberation narrative that is sort of implied in conversations with a friend and that everything is really up for grabs; also said that tradition is just made up out of convenience of those in power of people who have gone before us. I think this discussion is really helpful to equip us how to troubleshoot these kinds of conversations that i could never have imagined I'd participate in in my generation. Thank you.

[@docsmittydc]

Excellent and super thought provoking episide...one of my favorites!

[@Godsplaining]

Thank you!

[@MariaPerez-uv8mm]

Ahh, Jonathan is wonderful!

[@brandonburns5249]

What a crossover!

[@thomasjorge4734]

Everything is up for grabs, Rverywhere and Always: Anarchy as Freedom, Madness as Fulfillment.

[@brendansheehan6180]

Ok, so, can we pretty please have this exact thing happens again for way longer?

[@phoult37]

I prefer Jonathan's usual example for the ritual of a family dinner...the one in which someone stands up on the table and relieves himself. It's visually striking but captures reality perfectly. Have you ever walked in a major metro area and seen a homeless man relieving himself on the sidewalk? I have. It really hits home the idea of ritualized behavior within a community.

[@Mdeil20]

That example is hard to forget! I love JP!

[@alphabeta8284]

Your ritual or liturgy is my social norm one could argue. I think that’s why JP uses such an absurd example, because not peeing on the dinner table is an absolute moral truth across all space and time 😂

[@mirceanicula9198]

The inversion of irony that Jonathan explains happened on the cross is absolutely eye opening and mind-blowing. It's the kind of inversion that makes tears roll on you cheeks and make you realize what it was all bout all along. There's so much in that one image I don't even know what to say.

[@northerngothic]

Fr. Pine and Pageau at the same time let’s goooo

[@Xanaseb]

Ace discussion. Subscribed.

[@Godsplaining]

Thanks, happy to have you!

[@brooksdurham5285]

Never heard of this guest but he seems like a smart Catholic good to have him on our side.

[@andrewternet8370]

He’s Orthodox

[@aloyalcatholic5785]

He’s not Catholic but Eastern Orthodox. Notwithstanding the “orthobro” phenomenon on KZbin, I do appreciate our Eastern Orthodox brethren

[@phoult37]

@@aloyalcatholic5785 He's a very charitable EO for sure

[@thebeardedbear565]

Orthodox is not Catholic but he is catholic

[@nuzzi6620]

@@aloyalcatholic5785 “Orthobros” and “rad trads” - two peas in a pod.

[@mauriciogarciadimase9931]

Great episode. God bless you

[@paullowe4518]

Great episode

[@fndrr42]

Cannot believe I missed this

[@mirceanicula9198]

I think you brought up a very good point that I always intuited to be true and that is the way in modernity seem to be ironic and sarcastic about almost everything. I always felt a kind of malevolence behind the way people take almost everything as a joke and saying they don't actually mean what they say and felt that it is also a way of not become vulnerable which is in truth a sign of weakness and fear. It seems to me that nowadays the most superior is the one that can make fun of everything and shows that he actually doesn't care, he is cool, nothing can touch him and so on when in fact he is making fun of himself. I noticed that usually this type of person has a kind of deep sorrow that he or she is hiding. I also see this phenomenon as a type of desacralization which I think people feel that is very rotten and wrong at the core but ultimately don't realize the sever consequences of.

[@slimsmcgill]

Dude, nice! This is a combination I absolutely did NOT expect :)

[@thebeardedbear565]

Ortho bois!

[@feeble_stirrings]

Excellent conversation!

[@RodrigoMera]

Tradition is an ethos, an attitude, it is a receptive approach to the experience of our ancestors and to history itself. You don't start studying history to make history say what you want it to say, but to hear what it has to say and tell the rest of the people about it. If you don't have this attitude towards it, you will never get it, and in fact, you will never be an historian.

[@abrahamrlopez]

what a treat

[@Anthony-vm9gz]

Incredible podcast. Thank you.

[@jackiek4159]

Such a great conversation between you all! Thank you gentlemen! 🙏🏻💞

[@brentgoodman4401]

Another interview please.!!!!!!! This was much to short.

[@carolinemaryfrances1326]

First comment again!🎉

[@joelmontero9439]

What how did I missed this until now? 😨😨😨

[@jonathanwickey8948]

Jonathan, I have been keenly interested and captivated by your work and your worldview for many weeks now, and have been happily lapping up all of your conversations while I remodel my building. Thank you for all that you do! One question that I have for you that I have been pondering - You say that the world exists in a hierarchy, and that hierarchy is inclusive in a sense; and that a sinner, someone on the margins with idiosyncrasies, can be included into the body of Christ by acknowledging his proper place in the hierarchy. I love the way that you have formulated this, and believe it to be true. However, I am trying to make sense of the idea of capital punishment alongside this view. There are many crimes, biblically speaking, that call for the death of the sinner. This, on its face, does not seem very inclusive. What is your view point on punishment? When a man murders someone, as his priest, or as his judge, what should we do with this person? Perhaps those are different answers. What sort of criteria should we be looking for if it is our responsibility to judge him? And should we look to the Bible to find a punishment fit for the crime if punishment is necessary? I have pondered the relationship between justice and mercy for a long time, and understand that this is a very deep issue. Any of your insights would be greatly appreciated. God bless you! Jonathan Wickey

[@valuedCustomer2929]

👍

[@thomasjorge4734]

Heaven exists because God is Merciful. Purgatory exists because God is Just. Earth exists because God is Love. Hell exists because God is Respectful.

[@thomasjorge4734]

Not wanting to be Caught in Commitment? This is an Adolescent's Dream. The Iron Chains of Irony Imprison Youth In their Immaturity!

[@deussacracommunioest2108]

"Hierarchy" refers both to power structure as to holiness, as "Sacredness" means set apart. It seems the Mission of the Church is then to set apart and rise up all things, consecrating them by holy mandate and with sacred power. But why does Jesus said "I don't pray for the world but for those You have Given Me", could anyone explain to me please?

[@josephtravers777]

It was intercessory prayer for the Apostles in the Garden of Olives before His arrest.

[@mirceanicula9198]

Something that I see on the horizon and worries me deeply is that the dragon can't be argued or reasoned with and ultimately its head must be severed

[@thomasjorge4734]

If I Inherit, I have Identity and Belong.

[@thomasjorge4734]

Hierarchy Exists: Everywhere; on Earth, in Heaven and even, in Hell. Hierarchy does not contradict Equality!

[@musicmeaningandmystery5258]

Thanks for these discussions. I am glad to subscribe. A comment: I think the discussion on tattoos would be strengthened by giving the devil his due, so to speak. I think there is a history of the use of tattoos that would be interesting to open up regardless of one's conviction about them. You may end up being right about your perspective on the popularity of tattoos, but without reference to the integrated use of tattoos by various cultures across the world, the argument is not as strong as it could be. As it is, it comes across (to me) as you strawmanning the use of tattoos.

[@burstangel]

He forgot to mention, comic book writer!

[@4CardsMan]

Please leave off the long intro.A link to the speaker's bio would wok. Next time, just let the speaker begin.

[@ElenaRoche]

Excuse me Jonathan, but there are a few things I see wrong with Picasso's artwork, which happened to be as wrong as sacrifices to pagan gods.

[@robertrohde4681]

Or maybe sarcasm challenges your worldview and you don't like it.

[@_Eamon]

😘

[@christianazacarias]

To what end?

[@robertrohde4681]

@@christianazacarias you believe reality is words.

[@phoult37]

🤡

[@robertrohde4681]

@@phoult37 if I'm a clown how about you martyr yourself for your cause.