An HONEST look at Chiang Mai Thailand (for expats AND travelers)

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Go to surfshark.com/AAJP for 4 extra months of Surfshark at an unbeatable price!

[@LK-pc4sq]

Are both of you aware that the Global Average Mean Tempature, Especially in the Tropics has significantly increased in the last two years? one of the reason is the International Maritime Organization has required all shipping companies to remove 85% of its Sulfer out of its bunker crude and that has caused a big decrease of low cloud cover ...increasing solar radiance and this, bigger more frequent flooding events!

[@andrejka_sacred_coach]

Thank you for sharing about medical care elsewhere. Permit me to share my experience that in the USA if you are over 40 and not a mother it has been my personal experience you cannot easily get a referral to a gynecologist for reproductive organ health. It took me weeks and asking my different practitioners for a referral to a gynecologist to look at my estrogen and other hormone issues.. it was like they thought I was asking them for heroin, as if I was doing something WRONG? .. These days in the USA a male to female transsexual probably has better access to a gynecologist than I do as a biological woman! .. Medicine abuses women and any vulnerable soul as we have seen from 2020 onward; I hate medicine in the USA which is why I am doing all this research to either travel or relocate most of the year..

[@lindadorman2869]

Amelia, I was pleased you brought up the topic of not feeling a connection to the city. I think you need to have that gut feeling in order to be happy living somewhere, especially outside your home country. A place can look and sound great on paper (or video) but you never really know until you go and spend some time there.

[@chronic2023]

Exactly. I kept reading about Chiang Mai and it sounded great. Some aspects are nice but the air quality was poor from the exhaust fumes. I was there in mid-November, which should be a great time.

[@YogaBlissDance]

yep

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Very true!

[@maxbest20s11]

@@AmeliaAndJP Another thumbs up for bringing up the topic of connectedness...I was there in September and didnt feel that "connected"to the place, despite having been to Chang Mai multiple times. Oddly, even a little strange perhaps, Bangkok is my preferred long stay destination. Addicted to that place.

[@terrencedeagle4429]

That's true. There's sort of sense of belonging or connection that's difficult to describe.

[@ursulavonoertzen5001]

I live in Chiang Mai for 11 years. When I came here first, I fell in love with the city right away. It is a very welcoming city. The Thai people are sweet and kind. My condo building has all the extras like pool, fitness rooftop, high level of security and many more extras to an effordeble price. I could never effort a condo with 70 qm in Europe or USA like this. My lifestyle here lifted up so much. I go out for lunch or dinner daily. When I don´t feel good, I go to my drugstore next to the Hospital. The people know exactly what kind of medication I need and I can get so far everything without a pescription for an extreme cheap price. The buddled water is very cheap and I don´t need the tap water for my drinking and cooking suply. Most important for me is the safety. I can walk around the city any hour of the day and I feel safe. That the city has a bad smell is the first time that someone said that. I live here so long and never noticed that. A other hightlight is, that I can call a Grab, Maxim or other driving services. The driver pickes me up and drives me to the supermarket and back with all the items to fill up the trunk for about 100 THB = 2,78 € = 292 US$ in the city. Sometimes even less or more.

[@Lillybaby26]

@@ursulavonoertzen5001 I love this! Are the condos quiet? I’m in America and sometimes you can hear your neighbors in apartments.

[@ursulavonoertzen5001]

@@Lillybaby26 I don´t hear my neighbors. The condo next to me is empty, but the condos above und under my condo are rented. I live on a highway, what is very convenient. But if I open the window I hear the traffic noise. But for me all the extras like pool, fitness, security, roof top, sauna and more are important and the securitiy quality staff also.

[@peterz53]

Been following your channel from almost the beginning, 5 years or so. Pretty amazing how far you've come. I know a lot of us appreciate the effort and quality you've put into videos. Thank you!

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Thanks for the kind words! 😊

[@TheBuddyShowWorldwide]

I loved living in Chiang Mai for a year. But burning season sucked.

[@bruce6641]

I lived in southern Thailand for 5 years. I really like Chiang Mai and agree with all your pros and cons. For me the issues are no beaches, no real parks for running or walking, and most importantly the air quality year round. Burning season is getting much more intense and longer. It is not possible to stay in that period.

[@AJ-zz3qm]

Thailand is one of my favorite countries to live in. We just wish it weren’t so far from the US. We lived there for 6 years. ❤

[@Coolzzebra]

We are far from the US but glad to hear that you like us, thank you ❤

[@patnewman1]

Hi guys, I liked this video a lot and am happy that you left Phuket and travelled North where it is less expensive. I have lived here for three years and could not be more pleased with my choice. My total living expenses average between $1,000-$1,200 US per month, that includes a beautiful 2 bedroom 2 bath single story home within a gated community. Chiang Mai RAM has been my go to hospital since I first ventured to Chiang Mai in 2019, the service and quality of care is second to none. Try walking into a Hospital in the US and being seen by a Doctor within 30 minutes for a $9 charge. 8.5 is a good assessment. I have done the Smokey season for two years but this year I am going to travel and avoid it. My last remark is regarding the “Butt” sprayer, once you adopt it you cannot go back to the traditional method of cleaning, a roll of 3 ply TP lasts me 45 days. 🙏

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Thanks for sharing your experience and costs! We were really impressed by that hospital!

[@ronstephen72]

Knowledge of the meaning of the word 'smear' is the reason you can't go back to toilet paper. ;)

[@EItinerant]

Amelia, I've been to Thailand and Chiang Mai twice. So I liked it enough for two trips. But, like you, I don't necessarily feel a connection 2 libong Chiang Mai. But your comment about this has me wanting you guys to publish a video of places you do indeed feel a connection! That would be very interesting. Thanks.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Great idea!

[@gregjor]

I have heard the "can't use credit cards" comment from several KZbinrs visiting Thailand. I have lived here for 12 years and I mostly use my US credit cards and ApplePay. I rarely carry much cash. You need cash for street food and the night markets, some smaller restaurants. If you live here and have a Thai bank account you can get mobile banking with an app to pay with QR code, you will see Thais using those a lot. In Bangkok you can use the prepaid Rabbit card in the BTS Skytrain but also 7-11 and quite a few other places, including mall food courts. When you do need cash ATMs never far away in the cities.

[@sandyparker8706]

My spouse and I just watched this video. Thank you so much. Thailand is on our list of places to visit this year and a future place to live.

[@robmason6466]

Have to agree with JP. Have been living in CM for the past seven years and I think of it as the happiest place in Earth. Appreciate Amelia's gut reaction but I experienced the exact opposite from the minute I stepped off the plane

[@keninchicago]

This is one of my favorite videos you have posted. You really did a fair critique of Chiang Mai, and I think important that you mention the fires issue. You both have a positive vibe and it is a pleasure to watch all your videos.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Thanks! Much appreciated!

[@msfranklin1550]

I believe the bad smells are from the flooding.. We were there in September , just as the flooding started in the Old City, and there were no smells before the floods. We absolutely loved it there, and hope to return.

[@terencecoeart]

I have been traveling around South east Asia for 23 years and Thailand would be my number one retirement destination. Particularly Hua Hin or the adjacent Koh Takiab which are on the beach approx 3 hours south of Bangkok. It has all the amenities 2 malls,2 hospitals, restaurants, train line etc etc.

[@ashvoj]

Too hot & humid, not to mention rainy monsoon

[@terencecoeart]

@@ashvoj where in Thailand or South East Asia generally is it not hot and humid or does not have a rainy season?.

[@wildbill6366]

Hua Hin ... No .

[@martypoll]

Finally, you got a normal Thai experience. I think you gave a fair assessment. I don’t live in Chiang Mai but I’ve visited twice (and experienced the hospital healthcare). I too would be wary of the burning season if I was to consider living in Chiang Mai full time. As for Amelia’s ambivalence, I think maybe Asian culture overall doesn’t click with her. In any case, consider Phuket to be an aberration. You would probably feel the same about Pattaya. I’ve been living in the Isaan countryside the past two years but I will be moving back to central Bangkok in a couple of days. I’ve lived there before and I just enjoy the vibrant Bangkok city living. Also . . . as an American . . . I’ve taken to bum guns. Best thing ever. I would never return to toilet paper. Also, though no one drinks the tap water, but it isn’t poison. Ice is OK. Bottled water is cheap. I quickly got used to it.

[@SaeedMobayed]

I lived in that province in Pai for some time and been to Chiang Mai. Just a wonderful place. The biggest problem there is the burning seasom from about December until March. Changes each year but more or less its roughly 3-5 months. Its really really unhealthy to be there during this time due to smoke pollution. Otherwise the rest of the year it's maybe the best part of the world i lived in. If you have a different location to move to in those months, this is a win (you can go to the islands, its the sunny season around this time)

[@Stonehampress]

Everyone seems to have a different description of when burning season is. I visited in October, well outside (by any definition) and agree both Chiang Mai and Pai are lovely then!

[@markwatson7652]

We visited Chiang Mai in October, didn't notice a problem with sewer smell, so I think it was more related to the recent flooding.

[@kevinthailand2567]

@@markwatson7652 sewers are far worse in Bangkok so not sure why a few smelly sewer covers would dissuade you from loving all that Chiang Mai has to offer. A pretty shallow reason

[@Chris-gk9fk]

I've been watching you two since 2016 and I think you're wonderful. Keep on, keeping on.

[@howardunrue7842]

Great video. Appreciate the honest review. We will be visiting next February. Chiang Mai is one of our stops. Thanks for the info

[@malcolmnicoll1165]

I was in Chiang Mai in '09 and really enjoyed it. I found your Moving Abroad program most inspiring. Look forward to the Q&A session you're planning as a follow up to the course. Thanks.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Great! Glad it's inspiring! We're going to host the live stream in January after the holidays as soon as we have a reliable internet connection.

[@normamanty7069]

Amelia, If you don’t/didnt feel a connection in Chang Mai, I can agree with you- we visited during the flower festival and loved alot of that city but it was very crowded and touristy to us… we then visited Chang Rai further north and Nong Khai (by the north east border) and loved it (if you felt the hospitality and people were great in Chang Mai, further north we found them even more so!) Both were less crowded, cheaper, and felt more authentic to us ( we stayed in a native mud hut with all the comfort you could want btw) Absolutely amazing! If you can get there… go!

[@normamanty7069]

And by the way, we rented a motorcycle/scooter in both areas ( most posts on Trip advisor say not to but we got there and gosh you just can’t get out to the great areas … so by recommendation from our accommodation, we rented (and kept our bags - took necessities for a few nights that fit into the cycle “trunk”- at the accommodation to then return ..to Chang Rai, and in Nong Khai we had a bigger motorcycle). It was soooo fun and no problems driving. We did have a oil light come on and got an oil job done , kept the receipt and the guy gave us a credit upon our return! So honest and incredibly friendly and great- he even upgraded us to a higher motor vehicle when we explained where we would be going. I have it posted on Trip advisor.

[@NextwithNikki]

As always love your content. Merry Christmas to both of you.

[@truckn]

Even here in Chiang Rai, 3 hours away the smoke gets bad enough that we are happy to Leave for a month during the burning season. As a Canadian, the bum gun is the 2nd best invention ever in my opinion. When I got use to using it my first time here in 2017, the first thing I did when I got back to Canada was install one in both my bathrooms. It saves on toilet paper because you only need a few squares to pad-dry off. Sadly, the sewer smell issue is all over Thailand and Vietnam. As a non-smoker myself but a follower of many Thai Travel channels, I think it started out as medical MJ but quickly transitioned to personal use. We've been twice and liked Chiang Mai but didn't spend a lot of time their. I wonder how you guys would feel about Chiang Rai, smaller but lots to see and do and even a little cooler in the evenings, as I type this it's sunny and 27c tonight's low is forecasted as 17c. No A/C needed. Enjoyed this one. Travel safely and Be well

[@michaelchilds1558]

Hey guys. I started watching you years ago when I was thinking about leaving Phuket. Since then I have changed my mind and, well, I'm still here and love it. It was a toss up between Chiang Mai and Phuket but the water won out. Wish i had caught your vid from Phuket I would have loved meeting you. They say if you can afford to live on the island, you can live anywhere in Thailand. After extensive motorcycle trips through all Thailand, I find that's true. Well, hope the best for ya'll and happy trails.

[@selaconte]

Thailand is the best Country ever 🙏🙏🙏

[@paulscottfilms]

Meaningless comment

[@2Travelis2Live]

Chiang Mai has been on my radar, so I appreciated this video.

[@brianarbenz1329]

In the ‘90s I stumbled upon an illustrated brochure and map of Chiang Mai city (along with another of Bangkok) made by an American named Nancy Chandler based in Thailand. It was very enlightening and colorful, and gave me the impression that Chiang Mai was a more pleasant, slower paced and less smoggy city than the colossal capital city of Bangkok. I poured over the map and other materials and developed a fondness for the conception of Chiang Mai I got. I’m glad to see this video to compare my impression to your actual experiences.

[@BrandonCaspar]

We were in Chiang Mai in March stayed at the Astra Sky River and yea the smoke was a little rough. You didn’t smell it as much as you experienced allergies. It didn’t bother me but our kids had some runny noses and scratchy throats. Love the videos keep it up

[@hump1953]

I was there in 1999, loved it! Been to other Thai cities since and I hope to return to Chiangmai soon but I am apprehensive about the burning season…

[@wileystephen8045]

Another great video from JP and Amelia! OK, so the sewer smell is a common thing throughout most of the under developed world. It is because the plumbers did not use either a P-trap or an S trap which eliminates the gases from coming back into your living quarters. One solution is to put like a tea cup saucer/small plate over all of your drains. Another solution is to take a ping-pong ball and it should fit in the drain hole. When you take a shower, the ping-pong ball will float up and out of the way, so the water drains and then it will find its way back into the drain hole. You might have to use a different size ball, but that’s the general idea. I’m looking forward to my visit to Chiang Mai in 2025.

[@ffuente3350]

@@wileystephen8045 Thank you for the tips.

[@FallingRayne]

I was going to do a scouting trip to Cuenca to possibly retire to, but with the CAD on a decline (as of today it’s under 70c) and predicted to continue with the new incoming president, my second choice was Chiang Mai.. I feel the same way as Amelia.. I have to “feel” it. I’ve decided to forego Cuenca this year and check out Thailand. I really appreciate your videos. So helpful 🩵

[@davidpetersen1]

Spent some time in Thailand in '97. Didn't make it to Chang Mai.. looks nice. Thanks for the vid!!

[@Mike-du1dc]

Thanks for the video it was nice to hear your impression. For us Chiang Mai was great from 2005 till 2015. Since then it has just become too crowded & the traffic is insane. We lived there full time from 2011 till 2016. The things you mentioned sewage etc is actually a byproduct of that over crowding & poor / NO planning for the increased usage. Last but not least the bad air is incredibly bad some years. So bad that we had days where we just turned around & went back inside.. IF JP thought it was bad now imagine not even being able to see that mountain or sky. But Chiang Mai does have its charms & is still somewhere we visit but would not live there again

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Good info! Thanks for sharing your experience!

[@mscatnipper2359]

That was such valuable information for me. Dear friends recommended I consider moving to Chiang Mai because it s cooler than other areas of Thailand, since I'm heat sensitive. However, I have lung disease and I would not be able to breathe there during the burn season. Thank you ye again for your comprehensive, honest views on several important topics to consider.

[@LawrenceStevens01]

I’m currently in the Wat Ket area of Chiang Mai . I’ve been coming here for 20 years now for a couple of months. There are several westerners who stay at the same place. We enjoy Chiang Mai during the high season and return to our homes.

[@wdm1000]

I loved Chang Mai when I was there in 2015. My high school friend has lived in Chang Mai for 10 years.

[@paulscottfilms]

2015 is a long time ago, the place is primitive

[@ScottYun]

You're in Chiang Mai during the best time of year. Since you are there, I highly recommend that you take massage classes at RSM International Academy (Recreation/Sports Medicine/Massage). I did 3 weeks of classes of myofascial release massage there during the wet season. One of classes was spine mobility massage, which may help JP immensely. The instructor, Hiro San, gave particular attention to individual needs duing and after classes. As for my overall impression of Chiang Mai and Thailand, I love the cheap food and massage. The burning season in CM, and the hot, humid weather in the rest of Thailand are a huge "no" for me. Finally, Thai is so much harder than Spanish. That's why I'm in Antigua, Guatamala now and will be heading to Lima, Peru after my 90 days in Guatamala end.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

That’s great to know!

[@alleneverhart4141]

I think the sewer smells and other air quality issues would make it difficult to spend much time in Chiang Mai. A place to visit at the right time of year perhaps.

[@jackanderson5191]

I just spent 5 days in Chiang Mai and flew back to Bangkok today. I loved it. I didn't experience any sewer smells. Bangkok is too big for me, but Chiang Mai feels good. Off to KL tomorrow.

[@lucchese20]

Burn Season was awful when we visited in 2019. We weren’t aware of it so best to avoid at all costs. ☠️

[@craigparse1439]

Thanks for the great review. For me, I'm disappointed that it's so far away from the sea. I like mountains, but my love is with the sea.

[@drala108]

I miss the sea too.

[@kitty_s23456]

@craig - try Hua Hin. It's a beach town (with fair share of expats) & there are nearby mountains. Reco: see vids by Walkabout Wayne.

[@TravelFun-qw8pi]

Thanks, I enjoyed Thailand but the air quality made me miss Canada!

[@rcooley111]

I was there in April 2 yrs ago during burn season and will agree air quality was HORRIBLE. you couldn't see twenty feet ahead of you with all the smoke

[@jimsinthailand]

I've been living in Chiang Mai for 7+ years. The WORST thing about Chiang Mai is DRIVING, a car or scooter, and the smokey season. Other than that, it's wonderful! 😊 Edit..Bum gun is a bonus! Can't believe this I lived without this in the US. !

[@deebee2603]

I enjoyed being in Chiang Mai and appreciated the cooler temps, but wasn't there long enough to know if I would love it long term. But listen to your heart, Amelia. There are enough wonderful places in this big world to find a place upon which you can both agree. 💜

[@kitty_s23456]

Hi Amelia and JP. A bit unrelated but there's another vlogger couple, Full Time Abroad, who look like younger versions of yourselves, esp in their Albania cost of living thumbnail. 😅 At first glance, I thought it was you! Re: Chiang Mai, I think you only stayed in the old city? Did you visit the temple War Doi Suthep? (it has a longer name) There are hiking trails along the way. There are also many mountains, waterfalls & scenic spots in the vicinity, like the Sticky Waterfalls & the San Kamphaeng (sp?) hot springs. There's also an elephant sanctuary and Doi Inthanon mountain. CM is great for hiking & nature lovers. The burning season is terrible, though. Many expats use that time to travel elsewhere.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

We thought they were us, too! 😂 Bizarro Amelia And JP 😂 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYW4k5tno9qEY7Msi=Awe02YXnBDIwOGjz

[@kitty_s23456]

@AmeliaAndJP They (Lior & Mirit of Full Time Abroad) have returned to Thailand while you've just exited it. Maybe you're multiverse versions of each other & can't stay in the same country, else the balance of the universe will be destroyed?! 😂 😂 Thnx for the clip of Bizarro Seinfeld. I watched some episodes of that show but didn't know that particular clip. 😂😂

[@tavil-k5g]

ท่านทั้งสองดูดีมาก ขอให้ท่านทั้งสองมี่แต่ความสุข .ไทยแลน

[@suen5006]

I have been to Chiang Mai but I can't imagine living there because of the heat. One notable thing I'm learning about - very affordable elder care is a growing industry. I think learning Thai would be very difficult because it is a tonal language. Still, a great experience to visit!

[@paulscottfilms]

Heat ?? Have you tried Winter ?

[@goguled]

I have been waiting for this one!

[@EasternDreamer615]

I'm so glad you guys made it up to Chiang Mai. It's my favorite city.

[@Kari-Evan]

Thank you for honest opinion. It’s very helpful.

[@suegordon6805]

It’s alot like Cambodia. We visited there several years ago and we had a wonderful time. We hired a driver and a guide and they took us from the bottom to the top. We stayed in beautiful cabins and hotel rooms for a very low price. I’ve never had such sweet fruit. Nothing like what we have in the states. Our fruit is picked before it’s ripe so it can be shipped without impact.

[@alexknapp6130]

Great video! We love Chiang Mai and we are heading there in a couple of weeks.

[@Patrick_Ross]

Air quality would be my #1 priority as maintaining good health has always been my top priority in life. Sounds like the kind of place to be a part time resident.

[@terencecoeart]

@Patrick_Ross .Air quality in Chiang Mai reaches harmful levels during the burning season. It is not for you I suggest.

[@kitty_s23456]

@patrick - some ppl live in Chiang Mai then go south during the burning season (Pattaya, Hua Hin, Koh Samui or other islands). Some also travel to nearby countries. I didn't go there during burning season but I know people who live there full time. They have air purifiers and stay indoors most of the time or travel elsewhere. I liked CM because it's near mountains - has many hiking trails, waterfalls & other nature stuff. It's also less busy than Bangkok. Some prefer Pattaya (Jomtien) because it's still a city but near the beach. Jomtien/ Pattaya is full of Russians, similar to Phuket.

[@drala108]

Best is to leave for a few months. I've been running an air purifier at home for over a month. This works. Going outside you need protection. It's a drag. Some of my friends moved south permanently.

[@drala108]

Welcome to Chiang Mai. Yes, the air quality is terrible during burning season. The heavy rain lasted only a few weeks and the flooding was really devastating. I also use RAM Hospital. For pharmacy you go to Dara Pharmacy. You can order online and get Grab delivery. There are more affordable Hospitals. CM actually has several excellent hospitals and Dr Morgan has her own clinic which has a decent pharmacy. The food is excellent here. Everything is available, pretty much. Hotels are good. Tops is good as is Rimping. Wine is expensive..farm to truck is a home delivery for organic food. Rents are very affordable. Venomous snakes are a concern. Sewer smells have never experienced- must be from floods. Yes, good to.learn some Thai. It"s a good place for older people too. A lot going on.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Thanks for the detailed info!

[@merckxbelgium]

Smoky season (March, April) has been very bad the last 2 years. Yes, the floods this year were the worst locals can remember.The supermarkets you mention are the most expensive in Chiang Mai.

[@donaldkinsey5245]

I spent at least a month in Chiang Mai the last 3 years. I could tell by your footage that you probably stayed at the same place I did [The Astra]. The East Gate is walkable and has a lot of attractions, but most of the digital Nomads stay on West and North side in an area called: Nimman. I love CM, but the air quality is far too bad. Even during the rainy season when the air quality is best, it’s the equivalent of smoking 2-packs of cigarettes. I have no plans on returning anytime soon.

[@MalMilligan]

Very comprehensive report. Yeah there are a few days a year where Chiang Mai rates with the worst air quality on earth... because of the slash and burn agriculture in N. Thailand and China. So as another person commented those bad air quality days can hit any time over a 5 month span every year. The air quality problem also hits southern Thailand but this is the epicenter. Other than that and the sewer maithenance, it's a "quaint" and super friendly place as you found. Many expats love the city because it's cheap to live here and it's a launchpad to get to the mountains, Chiang Rai, and Pai. Plus it's only 1 hour and 15 minutes flying time from Bangkok for literally $30 each way sometimes. Lots of vegan food options.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Thanks for the info!

[@ljharding2525]

Lovely video. I moved to Chiang Mai in 2012 and I'm still here, so I will mention a few things that people don't need to worry about: 1) The sewage smell is not normal. It's due to the recent floods and you were staying in the part of town that was flooded. The rest of Chiang Mai isn't having that experience and I wouldn't expect it to be a long term problem; 2) You can flush the toilet paper in the modern residences and business here. I had that experience of having to throw it in the trash bin when I first moved here, but not in the last 10 years; 3) The tap water is usually quite good here. Again, your problem may have something to do with the recent floods in that area. I sent away for a water testing kit when I moved here and the Chiang Mai tap water in my hotel passed all of the tests with flying colors - no bacteria, no fluoride, no nitrates, no nothing. Many buildings including mine have a water vending machine that takes in tap water and runs it through an additional RO filter. I drink that all the time with no problem. I eat and drink anything I want all over town, even from the food carts on the street, without a problem. Just be careful with the cut fruit in the outdoor markets if it's been sitting out all day - rinse it first. I will also mention that you could probably have gotten your medication without a prescription if you had gone to Pharma Choice, the professional pharmacy chain in town. Ordinary pharmacies won't have much beyond band aids and every day medicines. Pharma Choice will often either have what you want or be able to order it for you and have it the next day, and at a much lower price. It was good that you saw how efficient Chiang Mai Ram Hospital can be for English-speakers, but they are notorious for their pharmacy charges. On the other hand, Smoky Season can be a deal killer for a lot of people, especially folks with respiratory or heart issues. We have our days in March when we have the worst air quality of any city in the world. I'm from LA and it's several multiples worse than the worst smog day there. It's more smoke than just smog from cars. A lot of years the AQI readings peak in the 200s, but I've seen it as high as 800. That said, I lived in NY for 25 years and I'll take Smoky Season over winter in the US northeast any time. The winters took far more of a toll on me, for one reason, because they lasted so much longer. Smoky Season can be over in as little as 6 weeks. You don't have to leave the entire time, just book a 1-2 week vacation in early April if you're starting to get cabin fever, come back after Songkran, and you should be fine. Personally I've never left. But it is a major factor to consider if you're considering moving to Chiang Mai, and the rainy season that follows is hot and humid enough that you might not want to spend a lot of time outdoors then either. You came in December, which is peak weather for outdoor activities. There are 2-4 good months for outdoor activities. Most of the year you'll be indoors with the AC on. It's sunny here year round, but it's not California. Over time you may miss the parks and outdoor activities found in other places if you're primarily an outdoor person, in which case this may not be the best place for you. There is also one other environmental factor to consider: Earthquakes. We have one every 3-4 years it seems. The last time it was a 4.0 and no big deal. The 2014 quake was in the 6.0 range with its epicenter further north in Chiang Rai. It's not like Ecuador, but it's not a completely safe here either. There have been 2 major disasters in the 700-year history of Chiang Mail and one was a catastrophic earthquake in 1545 that created that beautiful temple ruin of Wat Chedi Luang seen at 16:45 in your video. It's been almost 500 years now since the Big One, but who knows if or when it might happen again. I never think about it, except when an earthquake starts and I wonder how bad it's going to get for a few seconds, then life goes back to normal. I'll take that over worrying about crime and finances every day, which as you pointed out, is not really a concern here. I agree with your point about "connectedness". That's a long conversation. The Lanna mind is different. You never really understand exactly what they're thinking, and they never understand exactly what you're thinking, but there is some much lovingkindness in the Lanna people that it makes it all worthwhile. Some Westerners feel the need to go home from time to time to get their bearings again and get "reconnected". You can't expect to come to Chiang Mai to live your same western life at a lower cost. Things are different here, albeit in a pleasant way, but some people will need to look for a place to live in the west instead of in Asia. and I would guess that's the majority of Westerners. The 12-hour time difference between Chiang Mai and most of the US is also a major factor. If you need to stay connected with family or a business in the US, you're going to be awake when they're asleep. That's a big factor and it will add to your sense of "disconnectedness". But many of us love it here.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Thanks for sharing your experience! Much appreciated!

[@andiea5743]

Great video. I think feeling some kind of connection or it feeling like "home" is important.

[@BrydiHeebner]

Because of the parks , as Amelia said, "no parks in the city.."...and the sewage smell, " we walked across sewer water.. on a sidewalk.." Id feel like Amelia - really wanted to go here, so I am very grateful to get your inside story, I still would go. But now the burn season air quality, not sure.

[@kitty_s23456]

There is a park within the old city walls - Buak Hard Park. CM University campus also has walking paths. It's still good for a visit, esp if you like nature, mountains & hiking. I think A & JP just stayed within the old city & didn't go to the outskirts.

[@BrydiHeebner]

@ Thank you

[@kitty_s23456]

@@BrydiHeebner you're welcome. I suggest to watch the vids of Walkabout Wayne. He has lots of vids of walking in CM and surrounds. If you go to the temple on the Mountain (Wat Doi Suthep), on the way down you can visit 3 (?) waterfalls. There are hiking paths which veer off from the main road which lead to the waterfalls. I visited the one which is lowest on the mountain. I took a song taw (red "baht bus") to go up & down the temple, so it's doable on public transport.

[@gbell9119]

The air quality during burning season is absolutely horrendous. nearing the worst in the world. the only tourists who stick around during burning season will have a hacking cough and think all the people around them wearing masks is because they still believe in Covid. When I was in CM initially for 2 months burning season crept up on me. I ended up getting an air purifier for my airbnb room and I still left 2 weeks early because I was getting headaches riding my scooter. All that said. Outside of burning season Chiang Mai is AMAZING and one of my favorite places. I have been back multiple times.

[@HairyPixels]

Chiang Mai is always polluted just because it's big city in a valley and no emissions standards on vehicles but it's the entire north of Thailand (and surrounding countries) which start burning (fields, yard waste then entire forests) when the rains stop and eventually the entire region is engulfed in smoke. We're talking 200-400 AQI depending on the day and region and the unbearable time goes on for a good 2 months (March and April). Even before the bad months the people are constantly burning things and in the evenings it looks like a war zone with plumes of smoke raising out of peoples homes and fields. So if you want clean air you simply can not live anywhere in northern Thailand and especially avoid already polluted cities like Chiang Mai in particular otherwise your lungs get little break.

[@seashell4327]

I adore Chiang Mai and it's very high on my list. I'm an ocean lover/scuba diver so was truly surprised to find myself so taken with the place. I felt that it enchanted me at the same time as it delivered comforts. North America has to get on board the bum gun/bidet train! Not flushing the tp is no biggie with a bum gun in play!

[@drala108]

Lots of legit massage places and MJ is legal except liquid MJ. South side has a park and lots of nature walks only a few kms from central CM. Retirement visas are relatively easy and affordable.

[@Amanda_downunder]

I think I heard a person has to deposit an amount before a retirement visa will be approved, I must check one day on this.

[@drala108]

Yes, for people over 50 a visa requirement is 800,000 B in a Thai bank account. This is for a non o visa aka retirement visa. There are other options too that you can pay for. Most people use an agent but it's not entirely necessary if you're good at paperwork. There's also a mandatory 90 day report which is very easy and free to submit.

[@Amanda_downunder]

@@drala108 - thanks, I'm not ready yet, but I'll be looking at a retirement visa. Not sure that amount in Aus dollars. I'm also thinking of other places. I would prefer to avoid the deposit if possible, but who knows !! economical massages would be great, v expensive here in Aus. I did a massage course but these days, I like to get a massage ! he he. lol

[@Amanda_downunder]

@@drala108 - i think it is about au$37,000 for the deposit.

[@cryptocorner2253]

Love your videos. The euphemisms in this video are hilarious.

[@cachecow]

It's not even hot until April, when they have Songkran , which you'll miss. I don't think they used P-traps in their plumbing so gases just come up through the showers etc.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

We had the same thought. We put a wet towel over the shower drain to keep the gases away.

[@Nebula37]

I love the old city in Chiang Mai for it's historical aspect. I also like being able to visit the mountains and temples in the surrounding area. However, for my wife and I, Chiang Mai feels too small. And the smokey pollution season is a "no go" for us. We love Bangkok for everything it offers. So we live in Bangkok, and travel to wherever else we want to go as opportunity allows.

[@dawng5653]

I hope you both had a wonderful Christmas and New Year where ever you are lol. It’s good that you cover even uncomfortable topics. You guys are my favorite to listen to on slow travel. My hubby is a North Denver boy. I am from Salem Oregon. Have you both ever been to the Willamette valley in the spring. Portland to Eugene. It’s gorgeous. Love Indian food. I don’t know if you come back to Denver but we have an Indian restaurant near us here in Westminster called Jewel of India- best chicken tikka masala.

[@Pthaloskies]

I felt the same as Amelia, I liked it but didn't feel a connection. I'm in Luang Prabang, Laos now and it has many of the same positive attributes as Chiang Mai, and is even more beautiful. It's a very cool place worth checking out.

[@daytriker]

Cool as in nice place or cool as in temperature? Would like to visit & see if it hits any positive retirement notes for me.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Thanks for the recommendation!

[@Pthaloskies]

@@daytriker This time of year - BOTH! Daytime highs in the 70s lows in the 50s, sunny mountain weather. Thats Dec-Feb, other times can be very hot or rainy. The culture is a fascinating mix of traditional Laos, French colonial, and Chinese and Euro tourists. My favorite French Pastry shop in the world is here. Try it! Le Banneton.

[@jimt6799]

The abundance of affordable ($10 per hour) massage is one of the best reasons to live in Chiang Mai. There are some highly rated massage shops within minutes of your condo. If you haven't tried a few of them, you should. (They can vary widely in terms of quality.) And I'm surprised that you didn't mention the coffee.

[@moresugartradercc2744]

Enjoyed the video I found the info useful thanks

[@tomruth9487]

I'm also an Indian food person, but will be going to Thailand again in January. So I can understand you guys enjoying staying close to an Indian restaurant when in Thailand. And it's true during the burn season, even the air in Bangkok is affected. It's best to stay near the coasts during that time.

[@mikehunt5637]

Crucial factor #11. Chiang Mai has several disc golf courses nearby. I'm going to be visiting Chiang Mai and Khon Kaen in January. I'm planning on retiring next year and moving to Thailand and Chiang Mai is one of the areas I'm looking at because there are a lot of hiking options there. I'm not too worried about the burning season as I can easily, and affordably, travel about during that time.

[@douglasnewton9143]

I was in Chiang Mai in 1975! Enjoyed it then, probably change a bit…

[@I.O.M.]

As vegans I hope you made it to Green Tiger House for lunch/dinner and a great place to stay on your next visit (includes breakfast).

[@deebee2603]

Great video as usual. The Thai people are so kind and friendly. That could be the number 1 reason to go!

[@AmeliaAndJP]

They really are!

[@wildbill6366]

Thailand is a nice country with very sweet people . However its not for everyone. I spend a couple of months traveling around . Burn season was horrible with AQI hitting near 200 , so very toxic . Liked Bangkok, and least favorite was Hua Hin , very unappealing and ugly .. Lots of bored gringos roaming around.. The bugs and humidity and smells are not for all but yes the food was amazing. Prefer Southern Europe and North African countries.. Just my dos centavos .. Love the video and honesty , you both are good fun ❤.

[@pdodwell1575]

It is my understanding that the doctors study medicine in English which is why they speak English so well. My Thai wife went in with me when I got sick back in 2012. I had a 45-minute doctor visit which surprised the heck out of my wife. She had never seen a doctor visit take so long. This was in Bangkok rather than Chiangmai. Perhaps this doctor runs into fewer English speakers. I asserted to my wife that the doctor was just practicing her English. 555 (P. S. In case you didn’t run into this when you were there, “555,” is pronounced “ha ha ha” because that’s how the number 5 is pronounced. 555 is the Thai equivalent of LOL.) My doctor visit, blood draw, lab test and prescription cost US $53.

[@amberallen7809]

I'm currently living in Chiang Mai. Been here 5 years. The biggest drawback for me by far is smoke season. As to the cash thing- that is true, cash is king, UNLESS you have a Thai bank account, in which case QR code payment is king. Sewer smell is a somewhat unusual problem, it usually isn't bad. Safety: this is probably the safest place I've lived. It's one of the reasons I've stayed. In the 5 years I've been here, I can count on fingers the number of times things have felt dicey, and most of those have been with foriegners. One downside: it can be difficult to make long term friends, as so many people are just "passing through." It's a big motivator for learning Thai though. Indian restraurant recommendation: Radjabar Indian 😋

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Thanks for the insider info and recommendation!

[@gothops2632]

What period of the year has the least pollution in Chiang Mai?

[@seashell4327]

I don't remember the sewer smell whilst in Chiang Mai but did find it to be a problem in Bangkok.

[@amberallen7809]

@@gothops2632 June/July- November/ December is the best, depending on when the rains start and stop. Feburary- mid April is the worst.

[@robbrown7105]

Great video, have not seen one of yours in a while. I was an expat in Cuenca 2014-2016 then returned to Canada. I will be in Bangkok for 2 weeks and Chiang Mai for 1 week in February. Went for a visit to Cuenca a year ago, a mutual friend, Edwin, drove us to all the sites for a couple of weeks.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Edwin is a great guide! We miss Cuenca! 😊

[@GeorgeMinton-jb8ky]

They also have a season where they burn the rice grass left over from the harvest and they do this every year which creates a air quality issue. Where in Southeast Asia is there not an air quality issue? The burn season would be a big negative for me to live there but I have heard good things about it.

[@suetrublu]

Thanks for educating me about Thailand. I live in Cuenca, but I am thinking of leaving because of the altitude and never being warm at night.

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

Oh yay!! I have been looking at Chaing Mai..

[@TBara-e5e]

I've stayed in the northeastern section of old town in November and December and I did not have any sewer smells at all. I always leave in early January and try stay away until May.

[@francesfarmer736]

My cousin married a Thai woman, he has fallen in love with the country, food, culture, everything. When he was in the military the end of Viet Nam war in early 70s he was stationed in Thailand. I still haven’t been to Thailand……….on my bucket list! Tobey in Arizona 🌵🌞

[@ChovyTravel]

Hi guys 👋 We have been in Bangkok for a while and started looking at Chiang Mai to visit and found your channel! Thanks for the great video! 👍

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Glad you found us! Welcome!

[@ChovyTravel]

@ 😁😁💕

[@supansaseesod1663]

Chiang Mai is my favorite city in the whole world! I miss it there so much!

[@dttttt]

I love that you love South Indian food! :) We loved our visits to Chiang Mai. Nice to hear an update about it. I wonder how much it's changed. We visited twice in the early 2000s, and even in the few year break between those two visits, there was noticeable growth and change in Chiang Mai. I found the people lovely, fun, smiling.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Yes! The people are so friendly and welcoming.

[@russbarrows6689]

The Thai people are awesome!! I fell in love with the Thai people in 1973 when stationed at U Tapao with the USAF in 1973. Please let everyone know that if you're not using a Grab Taxi, ask the driver to use the meter. If it's 'broken', try another taxi. Above all, negotiate with Tuk-Tuk drivers and come into an agreement before getting in. The Thai government told us to always carry our passports during our most recent trip to Thailand. Using a cross-chest bag is handy for carrying the passport, money and other items. Private healthcare is pretty good in the major cities. Chang Mai is nice when not in the burn season, but my favorite city is Korat.

[@davidpowell3469]

I didn't want to live in an expat area during my brief relocation to Chiang Mai. That was a mistake. So what did I get living about 10 km south from the old city? Terrible traffic, bad restaurants, bad markets, an hour to get anywhere, ugly neighborhoods etc. If you are young, stay tight in Neiman, and you don't drive around but you like to go out at night and hang in wifi coffee houses during the day etc. then Chiang Mai is OK and might even be excellent. If you are like me and like nature, golfing, biking etc. stay the heck away it is a dump for that. Chiang Mai is easily the worst laid out city I have ever been to, it is shockingly bad but that is because the city grew fast and the government tried to lay highways over an already tight local road infrastructure. In case you wondered I did a U-turn back to Chiang Rai where you have all the good stuff (food, recreation etc.) without the crowds (unless you are a night owl drinking type). And yes, the smoke is terrible - there is no getting around that issue in Jan-April (depending on the year it is 2-4 months - more than is advertised).

[@ChristianBlessing]

Wow. I have a place near San Samphaeng, with Mae On a 30 minute drive away. Hiking, cycling, nature, all of it in abundance. I stay out of the city, and avoid Him an like the plague.

[@gregjor]

The smoke gets really bad in Chang Mai. When I lived there I would leave for a couple of months. That, and boredom with the slow pace of Chiang Mai, led me to move back to Bangkok after a year in CM. I visited CM earlier this year and noticed a lot of places closed, never reopened after COVID. Some places recovered from the pandemic better than others.

[@garvacious1]

I loved Chiang Mai 20+ years ago. I was there in 2017 and it was way too crowded, too much traffic. Inside the walled city was too congested with people. My wife and I are planning to check out Hua Hin next year.

[@dgdw]

Chiang Mai remains on our list as a possibility in several years ... We just went through a bunch of forest fires around Cuenca and I didn't have the reaction that I would've expected to so .... Maybe burn season wouldn't be as bad as I'd expect. So long as the windows close fully and HEPA air cleaners are easy to come by. I also keep a supply of N95 masks on hand which would help :)

[@tessjones5987]

Yes the health service report looks great.! Did you get a Thia Massage?

[@jorger2020]

You can travel to the ends of the world, and maybe I'm wrong here, but deep down I know that the end of this journey will take you back to Cuenca.

[@ChristianBlessing]

The moment we excited the airport in Chiang Mai, in 2009, my wife commented "i could live here". While living and working in Malaysia for the subsequent decade we spent many long weekends in and around the city, eventually buying a bungalow near a neighbouring town. Now retired we enjoy 4-5 months each year in Chiang Mai, while taking advantage of it's location to visit throughout Southeast Asia.

[@AmeliaAndJP]

That’s awesome! It sounds like you’ve got a great setup!

[@Jeffrey_Short]

I live in Ajijic/Chapala Mexico but travel to Thailand often. Chiang Mai is probably one of the most livable cities in all of Thailand but everywhere has its drawbacks. Air quality and water management are issues throughout the country. I like the hustle and bustle of the city but not being as overwhelming as Bangkok and there’s a more youthful international presence than there is in other expat cities in Thailand with all of the Digital Nomads and backpackers.

[@Star-u3t1l]

A and JP could you handle the heat and humidity long term?????????

[@AmeliaAndJP]

Amelia is really struggling with it. It's not bothering me as much.

[@kitty_s23456]

​@@AmeliaAndJPtry mountain towns/ cities for cooler temps: Dalat in VN (try Danang too - beach), Baguio & Valencia in PH, Cameron & Genting Highlands in Malaysia. If going to PH, try to avoid the rainy months (June to Nov) because typhoons might hinder your travel plans. If there's a high storm warning, air & sea travel are suspended. Best to go there until late May or early June. Taiwan also has typhoons. VN too but not as much as PH. Safe travels.