An Idea to Fix Dead by Daylight's Toxicity Problem

[@ripgasbaron9716]

100% agree with you Scott, the death penalty would not be enough on its own.

[@westcoast9158]

Something definitely more prevalent in dbd than other games is everyone thinking everyone else is playing terrible. The 10k hour Nea is wondering why the 5k hour Claud didn't predict the +5% Unbound proc while the Claud's blaming the 500 hour Mikaela for doing too many totems instead of gens, while the Mikaela think her team's throwing for not trying to play around NOED. Meanwhile the Dwight's still learning how to hit skill checks, but since he's doing gens all 3 might think he's the best teammate in the lobby.

[@westcoast9158]

With the unique aspect of dbd being the pairing of Asym combined with the lack of a consistent scoreboard that can be applied to all/most matches. If you have less kills on the leaderboard in shooters, 99% of the time you're playing worse than people above you. Hard to give second to second feedback on macro gameplay decisions.

[@deadbydaylightdaily5455]

Its like me literally today, healthy, not going to save the other downed survivor on the completely opposite side of the map, far away from the opened gate...well, because I was exposed by Rancor.

[@werephantomsin15]

the most cursed design problem of DBD: playing well on Killer and playing well on Survivor are both incredibly boring.

[@jonathann4813]

LMAO Prevalent??? Players engaging on endgame chat on what went wrong or why did they lose is not prevalent or common at all. More than half of the player base has absolutely no idea why did they lose nor they care, they just move on. If what you said was actually true things would be different but player base is just clueless.

[@kingserafoi8355]

​@@werephantomsin15this is a boring take

[@Alley-Cat]

i can't believe the video directly below this in youtubes recommendation was "THIS WRAITH BUILD IS INCREDIBLY TOXIC!!!! USE IT NOW!!!!!!"

[@kingpin3690]

"WATCH THESE AWESOME FLASHLIGHT SAVES ON MY LOW MMR CHARACTER!"

[@nemesis2620]

WATCH ME MAKE A BABY KILLER DC!!!!

[@rabbidguarddog]

I PLAYED ALL VERSION OF TWINS

[@Idontknowwhat2type]

I love how op mentioned “wraith” and instantly tribalism kicks in and people feel the need to express survivors can be toxic too. 😂 We know. it was just a dude making fun of the algorithm. You don’t have to run to “both sides” a comment.

[@BlaireBlaireBlaire]

@@Idontknowwhat2type what are you on about? theyre just jokes dude your thinking about it too much

[@cgopie1]

For people who mainly play only one side, who constantly criticise the other side, they need to be reminded that there is a reason why they don't play the other side. For me, I am a killer main, and the reason is because I found it so difficult to play survivor in solo Q (I don't have any DBD friends to SWF with). I find it easier to play killer because I am in full control of my side and do not rely on people I don't know to win the game. Every so often I get agitated about something that is too strong for the survivor side, but then I play survivor and try that "too strong" thing I was annoyed about, and still get absolutely destroyed by the killer who 4ks us in 5 minutes.

[@aquila519]

Yep. I used to main survivor because I like playing with friends and also potentially meeting new people and friends through solo queue and overall, I like the aspect of working together with other people to escape the killer. So for like a year or 2 I would get annoyed by all sorts of things that killers did that I thought were "too oppressive" but I started playing a bunch of killer the past couple months and I started to see that it's not really that simple, and it gave me a much better perspective of both sides and I've noticed it's finally allowed me to tolerate things that I usually found annoying for one reason or another. People really need to play both sides more often.

[@anettelma123]

"there is a reason why they don't play the other side" sometimes the reason is that people prefer one side than other, period. Killer is boring for me and also stressful against SWFs or better survivors than I am myself but still a lot easier than survivor (for me), but soloQ survivor is just painfull and yet I enjoy (or did) playing survivor more than killer (since I started play dbd and 60%+ on survivor, 40% on killer). [hmm I just realized I have masochistic tendencies meh]

[@Xarenth]

Bonus shards would be the only thing that would pull I think. Maaaaybe some crazy BPs like you said. DBD already does incentivize you to play the other side for more BPs through the rift/tome, but this is a somewhat disconnected system and people may not immediately make the connection or care due to higher effort required than just playing a match.

[@engi98]

Can confirm, I play through all killer challenges first and only do survivor challenges if I really need the extra rift fragments, never for BP. I used to play more survivor archives when I had a friend to play with, but now it's just me 😞

[@Xarenth]

@@engi98 very similar to how I handle survivor challenges! I always make sure to do all of the survivor ones during events though (except a couple during the last one as we had excess cosmetic currency)

[@TheLogicalBeast]

The way I do the Tome is weird, like a symmetrical pattern towards the end node i.e. left and right path towards the end. But it makes me play both sides fairly evenly so not complaining either 😛 Tomes also push you out of your comfort zone & learn other characters, I used to HATE facing Artist now I hate her less because I learned her strengths and weaknesses playing her for this Tome. Still annoying to face because of her anti loop & zoning potential but at least I know bird spamming gives her a long enough cooldown to dispel swarm in time

[@GBHD7414]

Just started playing killer at red rank currently and I’ve notice that swf can be tuff but most of the time I’m not going against one, and I realize if I don’t get a 4K or atleast a 3k hatch escape I did something wrong not the survivors being toxic. Haven’t played nearly enough but def can see getting use to killer powers and how to chase is a learning curve while survivor once your good your good

[@Xarenth]

@@TheLogicalBeast I believe if everyone had a base experience of playing each killer it may also reduce toxicity because you have a better understanding of the skill necessary and struggles of each particular killer

[@Mazerwolf]

Be a based both side player

[@hunterofdrangleic631]

Be based an uninstall the game

[@lapizcata6930]

@@hunterofdrangleic631virgin “I don’t have fun so nobody should play” vs Chad “play until you personally don’t have fun”

[@PatrickRatman]

@@lapizcata6930 yeah, its called a majority of people who don't hate themselves realize the game isn't fun and uninstall the game.

[@hunterofdrangleic631]

@lapizcata6930 I just said uninstalling the game is the best option where tf did all of these words appear from about me not wanting others to play? The devs have no clue how to balance the game and it is same boring matches after 2k hours. Love how people complain about this game 24/7 and just keep sucking Behaviour's cock 😂

[@SqueletteCoolG]

@@PatrickRatmanhonestly that sounds like a good thing to do; i am legit concerned by the number of people who carry on playing DBD while saying stuff like “you cannot have fun in this game” or “im playing because i hate myself”, like if something doesn’t bring you joy then stop doing it? Or go to therapy if you can’t? But also, move on with your life if you don’t enjoy it lol

[@SpookySkeletonGang]

As someone who started out playing only survivor, the reason I never played killer was because playing solo without a team was stressful. Survivor side is just more approachable overall for people starting out. Incentives could help with that, but I think doing some more to ease folks into killer side will help too. A better/more extensive tutorial that showcases different maps/perks, in game hints/guidance to help people along during gameplay instead of just on loading screens, etc.

[@SolidRazo]

Both sides could use a much better tutorial overall Like the tutorial should teach killers and survivors macro fundamentals like for killer learning to leave chase if it’s taking too long and for survivors learning how to loop and to save pallets to name a few

[@Loalskii]

weirdly, I played killer only for the same reason. Since I didn't have any teammates, there's no one "on my side" to blame me for bad game or weird match decisions.

[@engi98]

I usually hate playing solo queue, but I'd absolutely do it time to time if they gave me iri shards for it. Extra BP probably not

[@mitchsz]

Extra bp for me it's useless, already have everyone P3+ ):

[@Phoenixfire979]

@@mitchsz ^^^ This. Bloodpoints become useless, need a better incentive

[@mayuwu4408]

I agree! The lack of empathy comes from a lack of understanding, so increasing understanding by properly incentivising those shared experiences would go a long way to reduce toxicity! I think they already might do this to a small degree because I almost only play Survivor (although Killer is very fun I'm not always in the mood to solo carry with no teammates and it's quite lonely), and I feel like almost EVERY daily mission I get is for killer. (Like, 80-90% of them are for Killer. I haven't played in a while tho maybe it could've been a since fixed bug or smth) That said, this is a subtle thing or possibly even just placebo and it'd be nice to see the impact of something more obiously/outspokenly implemented. (Perhaps it could impact queue times slightly though, having one incentive towards what the queues need and one towards your lesser played role).

[@AmsterdamHeavy]

Dailies are intentionally killer sided, from the mouth of Mcote. Its to get the player base to at least play 1 killer game a day.

[@mayuwu4408]

@@AmsterdamHeavy ahh I see, thank you! oops lol. So they do actually do this already for one side to a small degree kinda! I'd be interested to see something implemented on a bit bigger a scale like what was talked about in the vid :p

[@DrakoWulf]

DBD is the most toxic game I play, and not because of gameplay (but partially because of gameplay, people are insanely petty). I have gotten more Steam hate messages and hate comments from DBD players than all of the other games I play combined, and I play CoD and Siege. I personally don't mind just deleting the profile comments, but it ended up happening so often that I made the profile comments friends only. This then prompted many users to desperately send me Steam messages, asking me to add them... so they can leave a hate comment on my profile. Look, I go out of my way as a killer player to not tunnel, slug, or camp until it is my last resort. I have thrown countless matches because I try too hard to hook every survivor, and not one twice in a row. I rarely even use more than one meta perk on any given build. Yet that is still the kind of hate I got from Steam messages and profile comments. Imagine what I would get if I actually played dirty.

[@aroace7913]

Honestly heck this double standard lol, survivers whine about tunneling camping etc. just don´t want to learn how to adpat and only play in their way and sorry that I don´t play how you want to play.

[@DrakoWulf]

@@aroace7913 Yeah, the "survivor rulebook" has become a meme that I bring up more and more often. I've had people complain about me dropping and briefly slugging survivors... when it's in response to one of them sabotaging a hook in front of me.

[@aroace7913]

@@DrakoWulf yeah lol, like what should I do instead ? Let them wiggle of for free ?

[@DrakoWulf]

@@aroace7913 They seem to have main character syndrome.

[@mlgsty8880]

It should say something when I have more hate comments from DBD after one year of playing than from CSGO after 10 years. Its crazy really. Dbd players just seem to hold on to the grudge and take everything personally, never seen anything like it in any other game.

[@Mhanz-w4r]

The solution is that people need to chill the fuck out, everybody's behaving like toddlers

[@Derek_The_Magnificent_Bastard]

Yeah, that shit ain't gonna happen. lol

[@aquila519]

Very true but it's easier said than done lmao

[@Mhanz-w4r]

@@aquila519 i just wished people would act civilized, since we are in this community all together, and just trying to enjoy something we all love

[@aquila519]

@@Mhanz-w4r you're absolutely right. But the community is dog shit and entitled and would rather blame the other side about losses and try to win instead of trying to have a good experience for both sides.

[@Brisingr73]

People don't like feeling like they're not in control, and a lot of situations in DBD lead to that

[@phillipw6374]

I shall now not be toxic

[@phillipw6374]

When I'm not playing DBD

[@kuklusky3908]

I shall now be a toxic nurse main

[@user-jf9gh3ff5u]

​@@phillipw6374You're a hero

[@imCaptainQ]

Liar

[@imCaptainQ]

@@kuklusky3908good

[@maverickay5807]

I feel like a big reason why DBD's toxicity is so much more intense than other games is because DBD gives you more tools to be toxic than other games. In games like COD, aside from voice chat or tbags, you arent really given any tools to be outright toxic. You just play the game. But in DBD, you are given the tools to be toxic. You can slug everyone until they bleed out, you can consistently hit on hook, you can trap people in certain corners of the map, you can purposely blow up gens over and over again to mess with your teammates, you can sandbag teamates, you can fast vault in and out of lockers repeatedly next to someone whos trying to work on a gen, you can run up to a gate then just stand there refusing to open it forcing your teamates to go to the other gate, you can fake pull your teamates off hooks, the list goes on. DBD gives you the tools to mess with everything and everyone, and I believe thats a big reason why the game is so inherently toxic. Im not saying a lot of those things in a vaccum are toxic, just that youre given SO MANY tools to be a nuisance.

[@ScottJund]

i consider voice chat to be a vector for toxicity far more than any in game animation you can do

[@tooth1539]

@@ScottJund I feel like if a "/mute all" function exists all of that disappears, meanwhile dbd's problems cannot be solved easily.

[@maverickay5807]

@ScottJund I gotta respectfully disagree. I'd much rather be called names in voice chat then have a teammate trap me in the corner of the map for 5 gens and get a DC penalty if I try and leave.

[@stanc1858]

I feel like 95% of players just don't do everything you listed though. There's also a lot more ways to grief in COD besides T-bags/VC.

[@MichaelJohnson-wd1le]

@@maverickay5807 Even without the mute function you can still easily ignore what people are saying in the chat. Voice chat is the same way honestly but is generally way more toxic because people love chatting shit and taking anger out. You also don't even have to see the dbd chat so it's pretty similar to a mute function. It's also not often that you get trapped in a corner and that honestly seems like something only friends would do to each other if you could even manage to do it. Sandbagging seems way more likely and so does someone teaming with a killer both which don't happen often. The DC penalty is super small as well unless you're dcing every other game.

[@hippytea6333]

DBDs toxicity is different to other games sometimes you will have a killer or survivor hold a game hostage purely out of spite but in other games that problem does not exist normally and if it does most people don’t do it it’s just DBD

[@ryannem1216]

Its not the toxicity, it's entitlement.

[@SweetLeavesXbox1]

Most real comment 👍

[@RaeMelantha]

It’s crazy. I’m a huge advocate for at least trying out both sides in a lot of games, especially DBD, because it can just make you a better player. Understanding what might go through someone’s head that causes them to do what they do. But also bonuses are nice lol

[@reznornin6915]

I played both sides, and I still don’t like when a killer tunnels, cause I don’t tunnel cause I feel like it’s a lazy Strategy and it’s the games fault for being designed that way, the most lazy strategy is the most effective, and that’s bad game design. If I can win without tunneling then I consider myself a good killer, if someone has to do that it’s a get of skill free card for the killers

[@PirateZ1]

I think the asymmetrical aspect plays a huge role into why DBD is viewed as "uniquely toxic"

[@nukenade4623]

the fact its 4v1 just makes it so unfair towards killer already. Its physically impossible to pressure the 3 others at the same time your trying to chase down and hit the first survivor. honestly the speed boost aswell that survivors get after a hit pushed the game further towards survivor side as well. everything in the game benefits survivors in their 4 v1 more than it does killer. especially against players who know how to forever loop you

[@arcarc2663]

The difference between DBD and League, Overwatch, etc is that the game state collapses when one side is winning/has won. In DBD, it doesn't, giving a massive opportunity to be toxic jackasses with no danger or reprecussions. DBD allows assholes to take the losers hostage and BM them without punishment, and so they do. It's far worse on the killer-to-survivor side because survivors have zero agency at all. They can't leave. They can't force the killer to stop. The game itself PUNISHES them for removing themself from the situation with leaver penalties. Which isn't to say there isn't survivor-on-killer toxicity as well, but the imbalance between mean emoting and forcing other people to tab out while they're BMed for 5 minutes is a pretty damn wide gap.

[@dennisweiss6621]

And on the other hand, I have encountered disproportional more BM and jackass behaviour when playing killer, then when playing as survivor. Some people claim that the killers slug them and their teammates to bleed out every other game, and maybe thats true when you go out of your way to make the other sides experience as misserable as possible, but for me, a survivor who never BMs, I have bleed out deliberately like 4 or 5 times. But I encounter survivor BMing basically every single game. I swear, in every group of 4 there is at least one who can't "just leave" without rubbing it into your face. Yes, I could just chase them out, but if I don't there is a player who is waiting out the full timer every single game, and many defend this by stating "just chase them out, whats the big deal?". For me its a big deal, I don't want to feed their egos, I don't want to give them what they want, I don't want to interact with them when they have proven to be disgustingly sore winners. I am a bit killer biased, by I play a good portion of survivor and have finished every single tome challenge in the game, so I think I got a good grasp of the BMing situation on both sides. That aside, both sides have their fair chare of uncool people who just want to make the other side feel as misserable as possible, but the most fun games are those with fun interactions between the two sides that aren't driven by hate and vitriol. Like yesterday I chased a survivor into shack and they escape by the skein of their teeth and then they turn and we two just look at each other, no t-bagging. Then I look down on the floor in a slow and sad manner and the survivor gifted me their item, so I nodded and move back onto the map, chasing someone else. Its stuff like this that makes me endure all the BM and vitriol.

[@Aktomik]

I dunno, especially when you're new if a bully squad just decides they're not gonna do gens there's a whole lot of saboing, flashy saving, pallet saving, and 16 second chance perks to go through before you finally manage to two hook someone and they decide to actually finish the game. Killers have leaving penalties too, after all. Compared to that at least survivors can kill themselves on hook.

[@peeperinos]

​@dennisweiss6621 i usually go to close hatch, break pallets and walls, or afk staring upward and go watch a youtube video during endgame collapse. I like to think im wasting their time 😁

[@PlagueOfGripes]

I think the obvious criticism of the idea is that people would join and afk or so on to get the bonus. Even ignoring that, someone playing killer for the first time after thousands of hours of survivor is going to have a miserable time and give up on the idea.

[@RayneDeoman]

I agree but I've always believed that if we can just try out a mode where no one dies or escapes, but instead are working for points, then it'll be a lot nicer. Like everyone is playing until the end and it's easier to balance for. Maybe Generators done add a set amount of points, killers stunned, time spent in a chase, etc etc. same thing for Killer to give the entire game a purpose. Maybe that'd be a fun way to play. Less toxicity if everyone is playing at all times

[@Katana314]

One gamemode that I really wanted to see (and admittedly doesn't work for certain killers) is a Baseball Fielding score system. The killer gets extra information on the survivor that has been hooked the least. And, every time a survivor is hooked, the entity transforms that survivor into the killer of their choice, meanwhile the killer becomes a survivor. The single winning player of the 5 is the one that retains their humanity for the longest time. To win that mode you'd have to be pretty good as both killer and survivor. If you can get downs fast as a killer, you'll bounce back from being hooked very quickly. And, everyone gets the same chance to take out their frustrations of "killer op" by becoming the killer.

[@tophatsntales]

that sounds.......very complicated, but fuckin amazing to play

[@blooooooooooooooooooooooop]

that sounds so fun

[@Thisdddoge]

Imagine if we get a chaos shuffle mode where you cant pick if you go surv or killer (you can pick a surv and a killer with their items/addons for the match) Meaning that you dont get to the lobby part, just straight to the game without knowing if you play surv or killer. This way people will have to play killer and survivor, which create room for people to comprehend the other side. Dont know if this is a good idea, but i feel it could be fun

[@sagesherman19]

Kinda like among us and those type of games where you don't know if you are the imposter till game starts, or they could even do a system that MOBAs do where you may get auto-filled if there aren't enough killers/survivors in queue so it forces you into the other role (but then protects you from that for the next game or two) while giving a reward for complying and obviously wouldn't force a duo to split, but more for solo players

[@eliasar5051]

The amount of afk killers or survivors giving up on start will increase dramatically at that point. I like the idea but I think it is coming from too much faith in current state of dbd community.

[@Deadgye]

The one time I was obnoxiously toxic in post-game chat was when I had an X + escape tome challenge, solo queue, carried the team's objectives, got hooked for the first time at end-game and immediately face camped by the Wraith, was on a hill hook relatively close to an (eventually open) escape gate, and the two remaining survivors pussyfooted around until I died on my first hook. I went off on the killer due to the compounding frustrations. Maybe he deserved it for face camping a first hook to get a second kill. But I probably wouldn't have been frustrated enough to be toxic if it wasn't for the sheer incompetency all around. The killer's failure to pressure gens; The killer not even posturing for grabs while face camping; Myself for being in an area without enough pallets, assuming there were even enough left; The survivors for not even comprehending how easy and textbook the rescue was.

[@corban0the1]

I think they could double the amount of trials (3 for survivors and 3 for killers) you get and change the reward system for it so instead of earning only blood points you can get iri shards or even cosmetics thats are older.

[@swiftynova9028]

The reason dbd toxicity is so much worse is because ppl can actually really go for you, you can get face camped, proxy camped, humped, tunneled, shaking head all that stuff is like incredibly annoying and toxic and you cant do anything about vs a multiplayer shooter where ur on a team and most of the toxicity is just talking crap in chat which u can mute people cant go out of their way to bully you other than sometimes trying to kill you

[@KarlDelaney99]

I agree that all games have toxic communities but I do find it to be more common in DBD, GTA Online & Division 2

[@loldavis6591]

Probably because those are the games you play more than others? I also seem to find the games I play have more toxic communities than the ones I don’t. It’s almost like I don’t know how toxic those other games I haven’t played are…

[@just.Harley]

random question but are your most played pvp games DBD, gta online, and the division 2?

[@theintelligentmilkjug944]

I find it a lot in OW 2.

[@allstar_]

did anyone played league? Like its the most toxic community out there

[@fleepity]

@@loldavis6591 alot of assumptions u just made to justify making an asshat comment

[@AshleyFrankland]

I think this is a solid idea, and would hopefully work. Though there is an edge case I've encountered, I've found quite a few survivors who will accuse me of camping or tunnelling, but then will have a bunch of -reps on their profile accusing them of doing the same. So they already play both sides, they're just hypocritical about what they think is fair.

[@iswiftyfox8997]

Dbd is a hard game to balance imo (at least harder than most pvp games) because other games if u have shitty map it sucks for everyone, in Dbd if u have a shitty map its prolly cuz its unbalanced for one side. Not only do they gotta balance all these maps all these perks, items, addons, killer powers, etc. And there are also two completely different sides doing completely different things. But people often see something they don't like or see as OP and blame the other side for it. When in reality there are so many other things that aren't op that they're using but the one thing that is, is what they focus on. People focus on the negative more than the positive I've come to realize. And sure I'm not saying DBD is a well balanced game Im just saying people often look for reasons to be mad when they lose and when they win they just go to the next game and don't appreciate the win as much as they are angered by their losses. Other games are toxic as well, but I guess the toxicity is seen by the general public as less justified maybe? because if you're complaining about something chances are the thing ur complaining about is benefiting you as well.

[@orakkeli]

Tbh i think if they rewarded ~150 shards per role played each day people would play the other side more often

[@deadbydaylightdaily5455]

150 iri shards? I would play every single day. I have to play a couple of hours every day for 2 months in order to unlock a full 21600 cosmetic, imagine with 150 a day?? Man, I'd go crazy lol. But it's too much to be honest. The daily match reward is 300XP, they really need to give us a better daily reward. i'd say it should be 2000XP, that would be nice

[@aroace7913]

Not sure ´´ Played ´´ is the right word since people technically could just kill themselfs on first hook or let the survivers escape without even trying.

[@orakkeli]

@@aroace7913 they already do this tho

[@leapingliizards]

150 shards? Don’t start a business 😂

[@aroace7913]

@@orakkeli Yeah sadly.

[@regalmoreno4433]

Just finished the video and I like the idea Scott not because it genuinely might help with the “toxicity” problem but because my immense greed loves the very idea of more incentives since I genuinely load up dbd every couple hours and if I’m feeling like wanting to play a killer match if I don’t see 100% bonus bloodpoints on it I’ll straight up just close the game and hop on the next game in my rotation 😂

[@chemicalimbalance7030]

The problem with me as a survivor main is when I do play killer once every blue moon, I’ll just farm, meme, and be super chill. Not sure I’m the kinda killer they want playing in that role more often

[@steve_rogers_usmc1990]

This is what I do when I play killer now. I will do the tome challenges or whatever special event that requires it and even then, I will do enough to complete the challenge and then farm. I could care less about the kills or winning.

[@cheesedoodles1775]

Same The only times I actually care about a 4k is when I'm going for an adept. But even then it's a "If I get it, i get it. If not, whatever." kind of thing.

[@mr.catface-2635]

DBD is the just about the only game ive played where people will commonly come and comment/shittalk on my steam profile after a match. In my 4000 hours of dota, its maybe happened 2-3 times. In my 300 hours of dbd, its happened atleast 12 times. Definitely still worse communities though.

[@BreadAccountant]

Well, in dota, you can just all chat the enemies during the game. You can't do that at all in DBD. Especially if you are a salty survivor who wants to call the killer who tunneled you out something rude but don't want to wait for the game to finish.

[@mr.catface-2635]

@@BreadAccountant They could still just type in the endgame chat, not like im going to see it on my profile midgame anyways

[@blueboy1958]

I have 1300 hours in DbD And around 25 pages on my steam profile. All toxic/salty comments from DbD 😂

[@SweetLeavesXbox1]

Havnt even looked at mine 🤣 Love when people invite me to their "Survive with Vigins" group 😂 gatta admit, hasn't happened in about 2 years.

[@deadbydaylightdaily5455]

My steam comments are locked. One time someone found a picture in my account with public comments and left one there lmfao

[@epicbread]

Being in a casual weekly league really helped showcase this sort of solution. 5 players in a group and everyone plays killer once with some general rules about good sportsmanship. It helped me enjoy both roles more and feel sympathetic for the win conditions on both sides.

[@syrus8842]

Weekly milestones for matches played as killer and survivor that give bp or iridescent shards could work and also encourage players to play more as well

[@cookiecreep9204]

Its almost like banter and shittalking are a normal, expected thing to happen in any pvp games, and attempts to remove it only lead to worsening things... Or becoming ubisoft...

[@mcr00kes]

It's a shame people prefer to play just one role because they miss out on a lot of the experience the game can give you. Personally, toxicity is pretty low in my trials. It happens, but so too does good interractions, but the human mind loves to remember the bad crap more - probably why it's perceived that there's more negativity than not. Incentives to play other roles may help, but I feel a bit of self-evaluation by everyone is needed to understand that focusing on your own game is much more enjoyable than blaming everyone else and therefore never improving.

[@nicolasoyarzo1676]

Shards would be a really good incentive. On every single post made by the DBD team where they ask "what kind of reward would you guys like?" you will find a good chunk of people asking for shards. And the best thing is that the community does not mind working for them instead of getting them for free. It´s a good way for behavior to appear more consumer friendly, it makes people happy and it makes survivor/killer cues less saturated in only one role. It´s honestly a good move.

[@fabiopauli420]

Am i toxic for getting mad when im face-camped but not at the bubba but at my team that is insisting on trying to rescue me?

[@kamisguide]

I think this would be a really good idea to try to help. I also think the game is toxic because, although it presents itself as a 4v1 game, it often feels more like a 1v1v1v1v1. The game should reward teamwork rather than just individual escapes. You can repair all five generators and evade the killer for 20 minutes, yet still lose MMR if you are sacrificed. While not all toxicity stems from this, it significantly contributes to the frustration I experience both in and out of my games.

[@josephcote8634]

Tunnel camping at 5 gens is toxic, especially when that killer tries to claim that they're skilled when that's all they do. Tribalism aside, there are plenty of players who play this game with the sole intent of making it not fun for the other side. They even go so far as to have it proudly displayed on their profile.

[@cleebbb]

Honestly a great point, the amount of times I get yelled at in end game lobbys as killer for literally not letting survivors win is crazy. They try to argue that I do the thing that lets them escape?!

[@solomongumball1435]

For me, what changed me from just a survivor main to playing both survivor and killer was the blood point incentives and pyramid head. I think those incentives got me to try out things that I wouldn’t have otherwise and so I found a killer that I really enjoyed. (I don’t play pyramid head anymore, but it got me into it) So I 100% agree with you on this one!

[@mushroomqueen99]

I rarely play killer but iri shards would as rewards would make me hella play it more

[@Cruxia]

I wholeheartedly agree. If I'm having a bad surv game streak I switch to killer or vice versa. You can really see how games can go good or bad regardless of who you're playing as.

[@Pichudiamond3]

The “toxicity” I run into, about 80% of the time is people being poor sports and gloating. Either survivors teabagging the shit out of me after I’ve done nothing but play normally, or something like a killer tunnels me off hook instantly at 5 gens, issues like that are a majority of the toxicity I run into. And honestly, yeah it feels really shitty having people teabag me nonstop when I’m playing a C tier killer with ok perks, or having a killer hump me on the ground and tunnel me off hook just because I looped them for a couple minutes. That being said, I’m sure a lot of these people are the ones that play only one side, but Idk if they’ll necessarily feel any empathy if they switch sides, because I’m still confident that they’ll still gloat if they win

[@r1ngil746]

i think one reason is that a lot of dbd's toxicity comes through in-game actions rather than chat. i used to play a lot of league and csgo and 90% of the time the toxicity is through voice or chat. the people inting the game or leaving or whatever is usually the extreme. in dbd you can't really do communication until after so a lot of people just do actions. like if a killer gets mad at a survivor he can just chase that person and tunnel and all that stuff. or a survivor can block paths for other survivors or mess with killer etc etc etc. with league and cs if you're mad at least at the other side there's not usually a whole lot of "toxic" stuff, i mean there's stuff that is but it's honestly not much more than normal. now messing with your own teamates is the same but i feel like it's more easily banned (not sure don't have a complete perspective on how it works in dbd) but i think the asymmetry is really important in the sense that killers and survivors can be toxic to each other with in game actions that's almost like no other game i play.

[@wilkk77]

4:10 this idea wont work, people switching to killer will just try to farm and be "friendly" like they do every single time there is an event xd Instead of playing role normally they will try to maximize their BP gains

[@floresdeserti]

This worked for me. I played both killer and survivor equally when I first started. I found I like survivor more, but it's given me the ability to be more understanding with how other people play. I think it would work if everyone at least tried both sides for a while.

[@blueboy1958]

Personally. I've played League of Legends. Counter strike. And Overwatch. DbD is more toxic than those games in both consistency and intensity of toxicity. DbD is the most toxic community I've ever been apart of. And I feel it's partly to do with 2 things. 1. People generally suck at the game and lack an understanding for balance. 2. People generally stick 99% to 1 role. Either Survivor or Killer. And they become extremely biased to their main role and think they're the victim and the entire game is "other-sided". (Notice how every patch is regarded as Killer and Survivor sided simultaneously by the community?)

[@blueboy1958]

Would also like to note. There is absolutely no possible way to discern what MMR you are. There's no rank. There's no tiers. You actually never know how good you actually are at the game. And it's all based on gut feeling and emotion. Which. Spoiler. Is oftentimes very wrong. People have massive egos and always think they're much better at the game than they actually are.

[@stanc1858]

@@blueboy1958 I'm sorry but there is 0 shot you would call DbD more toxic than LoL. 0 shot. I've been told to unalive myself, or had people intentionally ruin games in league of legends and waste my time more, in the past 2 weeks of playing league, than in the past 2 years of DbD alone, if not, more years than just 2.

[@blueboy1958]

@@stanc1858 Then we've played 2 different games cuz what you've just explained happens in Lol happens in DbD 🤷‍♂️

[@Jackrabbit0984]

The daily and tome systems already encourage playing both sides for the killers/survivors you own. Just make the first day reward be Auric cells (

[@CardboardBox427]

See the trick to not seeing the game as toxic is by not taking the game seriously at any point in time

[@NinjapowerMS]

Even then DBD's toxicity is baby mode compared to stuff like Dota 2 or CSGO lol. Like jesus just skip end game summary and stop reading if it words affect you that much.

[@thedutywarlord264]

Toxicity has nothing to do with taking the game seriously... either of you are like this right now : 🤓🤓

[@theintelligentmilkjug944]

​​@@NinjapowerMS well, on consoles you have people message your account. You could just turn off the ability to message you without having you friended, but I like to be able to chat with people that aren't on my friends list so I assume others want to do the same with me. Also, that won't stop people playing toxic in game. Though it might not be as bad as other games toxicity it still isn't fun for the other side.

[@fleepity]

@@theintelligentmilkjug944 playing "toxic" in dbd is usually just midly annoying or a waste of time its nothing inherently bad

[@SweetLeavesXbox1]

100/100 Comment. People start crying the word toxic if things don't go their way. It's an overused definition that has no real meaning in DBD. Since everyone views "Toxic" differently. Some kids' think breathing air is Toxic.

[@JayJay-935]

I have tought about this before, my solution was that every day theres a blood point/iridescent shards reward that can only be claimed once you've played one match as a survivor and one match as a killer simple yet concise

[@Trident_Gaming03]

What if I play one side 90% of the time but am not toxic?

[@lordsavior1559]

Yeah, we exist too but we're not the problem.

[@keith3rd791]

As someone who only plays killer i do belive that both sides should have fun but also understand that when they get nerfed in some way that its so the other side can have fun to

[@MariannaKross]

Resident Evil Revelations 2 did this in Raid Mode. The more you played one character, the other characters you haven't played build up an XP bonus. I would never have played anyone except Hunk if it wasn't for that. This is a great idea that can only bring good things.

[@windego999]

Listen, I genuinely would love to play killer more. I enjoyed it when I tried it before but with the flashlights and the teabags and the deliberate attempts to piss me off from the survivors...why would I? Why would I ever choose to play the role where people will go out of their way to make me mad? And don't say to just get over it or that it's a game. That's reductive as all hell and not everyone can just overlook it like some of you can.

[@OneJadeZombie]

I agree with pretty much all of this, and the only things that DBD needs QoL wise would be more focus on game balancing and some kind of daily, weekly, or even monthly list of things players could do for more points, shards, or even cells.

[@kingespy]

If you think this will help the overall mindset then I can somewhat see that because people are willing to see both sides once they’ve experienced the troubles the other side can have but inherently people will always have a side they favor. You can like both survivor and killers and see the points but at the end of the day you’ll still see through your lens as a survivor or killer (whichever you prefer) and will still end up siding with that role.

[@BDeity]

This is a fine idea, but I don't think it will solve anything. Yes people who main a side are more biased, but on Spooks 'N Juke's channel or instance, people will complain about things that they absolutely do themselves. i.e. A guy will complain how a killer he thinks is hard tunneling is playing, but then actually hard tunnel himself when he plays killer in the same stream. They are in it to bitch and complain, it's way too idealistic to think the people who behave like this will suddenly have a change of heart.

[@drewhoffmaster2969]

Something that's a little bit more stick that I think still works fine is locking cosmetics in tomes/rifts behind the opposite side's role--for example, a killer cosmetic gets locked behind survivor related challenges and vice-versa. It's something I've seen in event tomes but usually if I remember correctly, they lock the survivor cosmetic behind survivor challenges and killer cosmetics behind killer challenges. These are all totally optional--you don't "have" to get the cosmetics. FOMO is a helluva drug, though.

[@chandy.]

agreed, i use to be a toxic survivor main for the first year of playing until i started playing killer and realized there's toxicity on both sides. i never solo q, i play killer if im by myself now and if friends are on i play with them. have a friend or 2 that never play killer and have to explain to them a few things throughout the match to help them understand the killers POV

[@Phantom_Kraken]

I could not agree more there’s so many takes I see where I think “you have not played a minute of the other side”

[@vladspellbinder]

I always counter the "Well other games are also if not more toxic than [game being talked about]" 'argument' by saying that NO GAME should be toxic. Fight the toxicity in those other games as well. It sort of like saying "Your food has LESS arsenic in it than their food so you should be happy." where the goal should be NO arsenic in ANYONES food. I also acknowledge that toxicity is a _human_ issue and that at the core of things _people_ need to be better. It's a deeper issue and in my opinion the answer is empathy. Like Scott says, the most toxic type of people are the sort with no empathy for the other side because they've never experienced the other side. So yes, totally give incentives for people to play both Killer and Survivor instead of only one role and maybe then people will start being less toxic once they've had to deal with a toxic group of Survivors or been face camped on first hook at five gens for the ninth time. I will however still fight against the "I had no other choice than face camp at end game" bit. You _always_ have the choice of not putting so much weight on "winning" and instead give people the chance to continue playing. Just suck it up and learn to get better at the game where you're not even in end game and if you're at the top of your game and get to the E.G.C. without anyone on deathhook just accept that your best wasn't good enough and look back on how you could have done better and if you couldn't have done better than sometimes you're just outclassed and have to accept that you can't win every game.

[@cinematicgames]

I think I agreed with every point. I think the toxicity problem stems from survivor mains (or survivor-only) as I certainly have played more survivor than killa but have played my fair share of killas. I will never taunt or teabag the killa, find the hatch and wait minutes for them to find me before teabagging and leaving or standing in the gate as the only survivor left just waiting for the killa to see me safely out of reach like some badass with a baby blanket. The toxic killas (who slug, body-camp or hook camp or down multiple people and wait for one to die to hook before picking up another and usually before one or two gens are completed) are just baby killas who can't "win" any other way... even if it's a toxic bully squad, I'll play fair and just take pleasure in dropping them and hooking /Mori'ing them as if to say "so how'd that work out for ya'll?" or all of their coordination and extreme lengths is what it took to best me so... that's flattering. It's sort of like the hackers/cheaters, if you can't "win" any other way that's pretty hilarious in that really sad way.

[@imrpbtw]

I agree with your reasoning. Do you think there's practical incentive that's worth playing the killer if you are playing with friends? I suspect that a lot of people who play only survivors often play with friends. Since solo-q is the worst way to play dbd by far, it also incentivizes people who play alone to only play as killers (or rather it punishes players for playing survivor alone). I think your recommendation + fixing solo q experience would help, and the latter would solve a lot of other problems as well, notably balance.

[@Hybrid_Guy23]

I imagine a stacking bonus 50% blood points that gets added to the other side whenever you play 1 side. You could play 6 games of survivor and see a 300% blood point bonus on your next killer game. Then after that killer game you’ll see a 50% bloodpoint bonus on your next survivor game, and it just jumps back and fourth. That or iridescent shards would be Really really good

[@BairTheBeagle2047]

I've thought that it'd be a good idea for both sides to get some sort of daily bonus reward, where you get however many bloodpoints or something for your first killer/survivor match of the day. I know I would wanna play killer more if I got 30-40k bp for playing a match a day

[@CoffeeZombi-ATL1]

Nice, the main talking point was a comment I made a WHILE ago, 100% agree Scott! I went looking for it and was like 2 years ago, jeez two years?! video was "Are Killers or Survivors More Toxic?"

[@Zero-kz8dd]

i love how simple your solutions are, yet BHVR can't think of half of them

[@eleanorgreywolfe5142]

I don't think this a DBD issue. This is a human issue. Humans tend to revert to tribalism us vs them for A LOT of things, some do it without even realising it. It's always going to exist no matter what DBD does, they can try to mitigate it of course but other than that you can't change people.

[@TheColonelCookiez]

scott i've been watching your stuff since dark souls 2 and you are a saint. you have a platform and keep saying more and more good stuff but this one takes the cake. 1000000000000% behind you on this one.

[@staremind4]

Why not also add to the idea that additionally, on your playercard in the post match result screen, it shows how many hours you played on from each side. That way, this helps in negating people from using the argument that the other side is easy when you can clearly see they barely even play the other side and/or this makes it so that people who do want to make that argument will be forced to play the other side more so that they can boost their playercard stat

[@ToadMagic]

lol

[@aroace7913]

I´m not sure I would or anyone else would play both sides because of that.

[@staremind4]

@@aroace7913 Yeah but in general, I would argue that they would

[@hipunpun]

I think having built-in systems that encourage good behavior & discourage bad/unfun behavior should be implemented to larger extremes, then many of these issues fall away imo. As a killer main, I don't want to tunnel, I want everyone to have a good experience. The issue comes in when the other side is running sweaty perks/gen rushing & you feel you have to perform in an unfriendly way just to compete.

[@eliasar5051]

Bonus shards might actually do it, but there would also have to be a requirement in performance (nothing too harsh, but something afk killer or survivor giving up on start or mid-game cannot get by any means) from the player. Otherwise it would be just a massive afk or rage-giving up for rewards fest.

[@zmanrockz6358]

I just think a daily first game reward for each side would work. Like your first survivor and killer games each day give a huge boost to bonus

[@danielmikula1375]

It depends on what you consider 'toxic'. I think a lot of people rationalize their behavior in-game and afterwards as a means of trying to get into the other person's head. Allegedly, anyway.

[@kyubey475]

I think this would be only slightly effective in practice because 1. we already have the tomb challenges, daily rituals and bonuses for the roll that needs more players... 2. if you make people play the other role when they dont want to they will just be a friendly killer or be afk or just not play properly and it would lower the quality of games and they would never even get invested enough to sympathise with the other role... + alot of people are just too anxious to play killer. i think i had another point too but i cant remember :(

[@lucasamaral8835]

i think the solution to play both sides is in the game modes. i used to play both sides, but lately only play survivor, because i only play with my friends now and the only way to play killer with them is in custom games wich gets repetitive compared to public matches. with 2v8 i can play killer with one of my friends. i'm not sure what gamemode would make a killer main play survivor but i think that thats the way

[@brett1908]

I can personally speak to both of the main points made in this video. When I started to play DBD on console I would play maybe one killer game a month and had 2.5K hours on console total, back then I used to complain about killers doing things that aren’t fun more often like camping or slugging, now I play on PC and take advantage of bonus BPs more often being a newer account and play both sides now. I complain a lot less about the game especially from the survivor side which I used to main. And I also agree DBD is not one of the most toxic communities out there, maybe one of the most entitled in gameplay but that’s different, like, I play CS very often and get called the N word often on that game. Where throughout my years of DBD since the nemesis’s release anniversary event on console when I started playing, and now on PC throughout all my hours, don’t think I’ve been called the N word once. Now this kind of stuff doesn’t bother me being called that either way, but big contrast in general behaviour there.

[@danPgroves]

I don't know if this applies to most survivor mains, but the reason I play survivor and never killer is entirely because I don't enjoy playing on my own. I don't think I play dead by daylight on my own pretty much at all, kinda curious how many people do play on their own for a fair portion of their time playing.

[@dmitrijstrofimovs2596]

The should revamp the "give props" button, maybe adding more options such as altruism, worthy opponent/good looping, funny/goofy etc. since the give props button is totally unused, can't even remember the last time i used it

[@deadbydaylightdaily5455]

Daily Rituals: 1 for each role per day, 100k BP as a reward Event Tome Challenges: A few events ago you were forced to complete the entire Tome in order to get the rewards. Apparently they changed that. They should bring it back. Daily Match Reward: If you keep a 7 day streak in each role, you receive a random reward for the role you completed the streak (Could be the cheapest cosmetic piece for a random character, an old rift charm, a badge, etc. Of course, for this they need to create like at least 50 more badges and banners at once) However since the introduce of the new shop, yeah, I doubt BHVR is gonna give away these stuff that easy

[@venrisulven]

All pvp games are toxic but dbd has the highest on my metric of death threats/hour compared to any other game.

[@fredsayshello]

You have so many brilliant ideas and insights.

[@TheWorkmansPomp]

Perhaps making a mode or tomb that rewards you exclusive survivor items or cosmetics for playing killer a certain amount of times and a survivor tomb/mode that gives you killer items or cosmetics. That way you have to actually try and play the opposite side but are rewarded with items for your preferred side.

[@oldbadwolf4074]

from what i saw dbd's community weaponized cancel culture the most. verbal abuse will be in every multiplayer game. but dbd's community is incredibly vocal and as soon as even the smallest content creator will show a gram of salt every target will be at their forehead. I don't bring a solution just something interesting i noticed.

[@tiller3777]

I've been playing killer recently since a majority of my play time has been on survivor. I've learned that I enjoy trying to play fairly and even still run into toxicity when playing killer. For reference I have about 1.4k hours

[@FeaRDirTy]

Play survivor get tunneled by the killer. Play killer run into a bully squad swf. What does playing the other side do for toxicity? Nothing

[@DemCheeks666]

True I've had games where I played "fair" and still get teabagged at the gate and told to unalive myself

[@xSinfulGodx]

Exactly. Wont fix nothing but make you even more upset. I'll just stick to one side.

[@booey27]

The only time I hate survivors is when I'm playing as a survivor

[@goagulant9503]

This will never get solved until dbds gameplay becomes less black and white. Give killers and survivors side objectives and more things to do instead of adding cosmetics and new licenses so that people want to play the role instead of playing whoevers new in that role. The fact of the matter is that survivor is boring and tasteless because killers use the same shit while killer is stressful and lacks immersion because survivors have nothing else to do besides using the most degenerate perks and items cuz the gameplay loop for survivors is desolate and has zero room for any fun. No amount of content they add will ever fix these core issues.

[@alexmendoza2688]

Simple solution, just don't make matches one offs. Have a continue button so the players can play with the same players as before in their same roles, but include two buttons on the ready screen for both Killer and Survivor. It'll give players the sense of playing with a group, rather than playing against a group. For those claiming this is a party game (which it's not or else it would have had these features already), allow the killer to participate in ready-up chat as well. Have that cross communication with the other players than leaving them isolated. Two buttons that bring up the prompt, which on the Killer side will send a message to survivors saying "The Killer wishes to swap roles, do you wish to become the next killer? Yes or No" It'll ask each survivor before swapping the two players roles if someone says yes, or giving the Killer the message "The survivors do not wish to swap roles" to the killer if no one says yes. On the Survivor side, the button will give a prompt to the killer, "Survivor W/X/Y/Z wishes to become the killer for this trial, do you (who do you) wish to swap your role? W/X/Y/Z/No" Depending on how many survivors press that button, it'll bring up a list of the survivors wanting to become killer, along the option to decline. If there is one thing that causes horrible behavior, it's the feeling of resentment that comes from having a perceived slight being "unsettled". So as we have it right now, since matches are all one offs, with the rare chance of being matched up with the same player(s) again, no one really gets that feeling of resolving the thoughts of "if only I..." or "Next time I'll..." or any other thoughts that come with having things halt in an unsatisfying way.

[@dearcastiel4667]

I play both sides. I hate both. When I play survivor, it's usualy tunneling and teammates bringing the killer to your hook when being unhooked. As killer, lose 3 gens for one hook and then lose because I refuse to tunnel. I play both sides as I would like people to play them, and I have an absolutly miserable time 80% of my games.

[@thelaststein6807]

I play both killer and survivor but In both types of matches I feel like there's games that just feel unwinnable and I don't expect to win every match but losing a lot because ether being tunneled or a survivor running to a very strong loop and looping me for 4 gens is tuff... I drop chase with those survivors pretty fast but when it's 4 good survivors that know the maps and your counters and play super sweaty and you get stomped it just feels miserable to play

[@OrdellRob]

I think people’s gameplay style is based off their most powerful experiences and nothing hits harder than a bad experience. I think the best way the game moves forward is to create the ability to extend positive interactions between players. I noticed in DBD mobile that players can gift other players and I think that would be a great incentive for players to treat others better. It would make people feel good to receive BP from others when they do a good job and if they behave toxic then they just don’t get anything and get reported.

[@Aiebd829]

Idc. Still gonna tunnel at 5gens. My DC win streak is 74 games in a row of a surv rage quitting against my all seeing wraith build

[@shadowofaion7950]

Part of me thinks they could put the event skins, like the Masquerade Event, behind the other side's objective. Do survivor challenges to get the killer skins Do killer challenges to get survivor skins. Events happen fairly often but only enough to where you'd only have to play the other side every couple of months and only if you care about the event skins. The downside to this is that it feels like "forcing" the player to play the other side instead of incentivizing them. Mostly because you haven't had to in the past but if the system had always been like this it might just be a widely accepted system.

[@The_Mud_Monkey]

(I play both roles) TLDR at the bottom. The problem with given massive incentives ( More for Killer then Surv ) is farming. Your going to end up with a Killer who doesn't want to play Killer, getting a hit here and there, breaking a few pallets, half heartedly chasing Survs, and still getting enough BP etc to not give a damn about doing it. Playing both roles Obv helps a lot, but ever since the whole team work motive has been being heavily pushed, people now expect their team mates to clutch for them or they are trash, but if people play for themselves with the goal to escape because they are Solo, then they get tagged as selfish. I played a match where by the end I had all Iri emblems, I was hot, sweaty and wanted out, id done my part to help the team win, so I opened the gate and left. I was then given a hard time because I didn't run across the map to save a Surv. Survs need to appreciate not everyone is playing for "the team", and the Killers job is to Kill, it's in the title. And Killers need to learn that crouching is crouching and perks are perks. Both need to learn the end game chat can be turned off. TLDR: Lower entitlement, stop assuming for both roles and endgame chat can be turned off.

[@FelipeV3444]

I have a better idea: have a sort of secondary set of challenges, similar to event challenges but permanent, and lock cosmetic rewards for one side behind grindy challenges on the other side. For instance: escape 100 times as Claudette and you get to choose one of these really cool cosmetics for your favorite killer. I think this is miles better, because offering points or shards just isn't a good motivator whatsoever.

[@azrael9561]

I think the fun in this game is super subjective, sort of the way fighting games can be. I think when a goal is to make it so that one side has limited options, it makes it so frustrating for the other side. However, when players do knowledge checks, additionally with RNG, it can make people backlash further. An example of this is when people are sabotaging hooks and wiggle builds, there is no really preparing for a match like this. To most effectively counter act this, you need to actively bring perks to ruin others fun, which flat out sucks rather than having to adapt in most cases. This always produces the age old question "skill issue?". With map offerings and bad hook RNG, there is a perceived imbalance which produces this toxicity inheritably. There are many more specifically goal oriented builds like wiggle builds and sabotaging but I am sure you get what I mean by "subjective fun" on both side. Note: I have the perspective that toxicity is result from salt.