An Introduction to the Second Vatican Council: Antecedents and Aims

In this video, DeClue gives background to Vatican II, including the truncated aims of Vatican I, which was incomplete due to the Franco-Prussian War as well as the impact of mass media. Briefly, the aims of the Council, the "camps" at the Council, and the interpretation of the Council are discussed.
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[@rtmdc721]

This is exactly what I’ve been yearning for. You are ministering to me, Brother. God bless.

[@johnmason1244]

THANK CLUE (You) again and again. You are the voice of the silent majority who are not on the left, not in the middle nor on the right but SIMPLY CATHOLIC meaning FAITHFUL AND OBEDIENT TO CHRIST

[@robertmonteforte3422]

I’m definitely looking forward to this series. I appreciate the historical context too; it makes sense that the ideas of V1 would be continued on in V2 due to its abrupt end. It removes the perception that V2 is a separate event altogether. I’ll be interested to see how else the past played a role in the events of V2.

[@johnjumper7066]

Great show!!!! - prayer, overview of V2, teaching with a humble attitude. A pure Roman Catholic signal with no NOISE!

[@scottsimmons7897]

The fact that it's necessarily to do "heurmanutics of continuity" in order to apply and fit Vatican 2 into the Church should tell you where the Council is begat of.

[@decluesviews2740]

Nope. Just a general Catholic principle of interpretation. Not unique to Vatican II

[@pl6168]

@@decluesviews2740 What's unique to VII is the Pope deeming it a "pastoral" council while supposedly "faithful" Catholics cross the Rubicon to imply that its some super dogma.

[@jamie3958]

Thank you, Richard.

[@zheboba]

Really great nuanced videos! I think you should improve your vid quality (horizontal placement of painting in the background, pc screen reflection in your glasses etc.) You videos are great and it would be great, if they had the technical quality to back it up :) Hope that makes sense. Keep up the good work!

[@decluesviews2740]

Thank you! It does make sense. Unfortunately, at present, I don't have the means to upgrade my equipment or background. It's something I would like to do in the future if circumstances and finances allow. Cheers!

[@rmespitia]

Thanks Richard!!! Looking forward to the series!!! God Bless!!!

[@danieldrazenovich935]

Good start. Glad to hear that after the council there were many converts especially in Aftica and Asia.Also presenting the documents as pastoral was interesting. I think your comment about burying our treasure was very thought provoking.

[@anne-mariewoloszyn439]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍. I am really looking forward to the rest of this series. I can’ not support monetarily because I have a low paying job, I pay for my health insurance, and I am about to begin Grad School 🏫 for the third time. Other Catholics have the same difficulties that you do.

[@TheOshag]

Loving your videos so far. Very sound, balanced, and informative. Wish a lot more people were listening to you than are spending their time listening to guys like Taylor Marshall.

[@doewilliams8480]

Thank you. This was a great show. I look forward to seeing more. Your heart is good. Do not worry about where you shoot or quality. May God Bless you.

[@brad10104]

I'm so glad that you are making these videos. Keep on doing the Lord's work!

[@awreckingball]

It's interesting you say the Council tried to engage with the world and use more approachable language. I don't think I'm alone in saying that the Catholic Faith made little sense and remained uninspiring until I discovered the clarity and aesthetic of pre-conciliar expressions of the Faith.

[@tomthx5804]

The faith was the same both before and after the council. I think what you really mean is that you rediscovered some traditional Catholic practices that went out of style in the late 60's. And yes, it is wonderful to rediscover those. The reason that you may have had little spiritual sustenance beforehand is that the liberals were pretty much in charge in America. They watered down seminaries, they did lots of things to the liturgy that were not contemplated by Vatican II. Now, if you really want to be inspired, listen to the rest of this series. What you will find is that you have been cheated out of knowing and understanding the clarity and beauty of Vatican II as well

[@ArmchairPhilosopher360]

There's no such thing as a pre-conciliar faith. This is a term that Catholic rebels use to justify their rebellion.

[@liberator275]

vatican 2 was hijacked by leftist and liberal clergy. the end result is closure of parishes in the West. it was a sorry effort that ended up in a disaster.

[@liberator275]

@@tomthx5804 vatican 2 was a revolution in the church. perhaps the ideals were great but what happened following v2 in the West has led to the present state - barely alive church, with closing of parishes. the only positive thing is that the v2 crowd has aged and is on the way out.

[@ArmchairPhilosopher360]

@@liberator275 You think you know better than the 4 popes who preceded Francis and the 2500 bishops who attended the council about what happened at V2. And promoting a conspiracy to undermine the magisterium of V2 is an old SSPX trick.

[@aloyalcatholic5785]

This was needed, especially now in post the motu proprio times. I do think the recent motu propio will be somewhat of a defining moment going forward in terms of how the council continues to be received.

[@richardbenitez1282]

This an outstanding review of the Vatican Ii period. I was a dumb catholic kid who was intimidated by my non catholic relatives.The spectacular media coverage of V Ii and Pope John Xxiii inspired and energized me and others as I remember. Later in college I got to think Vatican Ii Matched and led the cultural changes in the US post Vietnam.

[@ipso-kk3ft]

I wonder how different things would have been in the Church and the world if the First Vatican Council was able to cover more pastoral, doctrinal, and disciplinary issues. Thanks Richard, you're in my prayers!

[@Augustinianismus]

Very good video. Cheers!

[@josephhoyte296]

I noticed you cross yourself like the eastern christians (thumb, pointer, middle finger together, and ring and pinky finger laying on the palm). However you go left to right like western Christians. I am an Eastern Orthodox convert to Catholicism and I also cross myself like this. Just curious: What is your background and why do cross yourself like this?

[@decluesviews2740]

I saw the fingers part explained on EWTN many many years ago on the show “Light of the East,”and I loved it, so it stuck.

[@davida7595]

Great explanation... thx

[@piousthepious]

Oh I’m excited for this.

[@CNArtDesign]

Looking forward to this. Are you aware of Paul VanderKlay? A pastor following the Meaning Crisis. He recently had a conversation with a Catholic writer about the current state of the Church. Might be worth your time.

[@joelgamino5587]

Thank you for your insight Mr. DeClue!

[@scottsimmons7897]

What Vatican 2 meant to do is irrelevant. What damage it actually did to the Church only fifty years later is important.

[@piousthepious]

You should make a podcast!

[@piousthepious]

Like publish the audio as a podcast!

[@decluesviews2740]

@@piousthepious Any suggestions on a platform?

[@piousthepious]

DeClue's Views I listen a lot via apple podcasts. Like I primarily listen to Trent Horn’s and Matt Fradd’s stuff there. Perhaps I would suggest there if there’s no major blockades?

[@piousthepious]

DeClue's Views I suggest it mainly because the meat in your videos are the audio so I’m freely able to do other things as I listen. The shame with youtube is that I can’t get out if the app and continue listening unless I pay youtube.

[@doewilliams8480]

Please work to offer a PayPal option or please let me know where I can mail a check. Thank you.

[@decluesviews2740]

Thank you, Doe. I thought there was a PayPal option through the Donor Box page. I'll look into that.

[@doewilliams8480]

Uh Duh. There was a PayPal option. Thank you. Donation complete.

[@decluesviews2740]

@@doewilliams8480 Thank you for your generosity!

[@tomgreene2282]

Like the mention of science/faith(See Copleston /Russell UTUBE)...also two world wars , the drive towards European unity.

[@SaltyPalamite]

Good video, Richard. But the fact remains that Vatican II was a complete and utter failure on every single level, and resulted in the loss of countless souls. We are still living today with its consequences, namely, a less reverent liturgy, lower rate of Mass attendance, less infant baptisms, less confirmations, less ordinations, EMHCs, altar girls, crummy music, the Lavender mafia, and 2/3 of US Catholics rejecting transubstantiation. Abp. Lefebvre was prescient.

[@tomthx5804]

You never say anything rational. He just pointed out how no, Vatican II was not a total failure on every level. You guys need to start learning, start paying attention to real facts, and not live in your fantasy bubble where you can ignore any fact you do not like. The only people causing the loss of souls are the extremist traditionalists, who reject the council and thereby reject the entire Catholic church and its tradition. You are the people who are in big trouble. You are getting your stats on infant baptisms from the stupid Taylor Marshall video, I presume. Guess what? He misled you about that, too. In fact, if you paid attention to the scales on the side of the charts, they showed that in the 70's, infant baptisms declined by about 25 percent. Do you know why? Do you think less people got baptized because of the New Mass? NO! There were 25 percent less baptisms, because there were, at that time, 25 percent less babies born! And that was because of contraception. So Marshall misled you again. Notice that all his stats were from the United States. He simply excluded all the stats from the areas where Catholic populations are growing rapidly. He fooled you again, buddy. Now, why would Marshall keep trying to mislead people? That is the question you have to answer. And Marshall and Sammon simply ignored the steep drop after 2000, because of the child abuse thing. They made up some stupid explanation tying it to the new mass. They have no idea what they are talking about Lefebvre was probably the worst bishop who ever existed. He had to be excommunicated. He died outside the church and now plays checkers with the dark one. Eternally. You need to stop letting people make a fool out of you and get back into the church.

[@SaltyPalamite]

@@tomthx5804 "There were 25 percent less baptisms, because there were, at that time, 25 percent less babies born." LOL!

[@tomthx5804]

@@SaltyPalamite I see you are impervious to reality. Look it up. The number of live births in the US during the early 70's went from about 4 million per year to 3 million per year. All because of contraception. That is a 25 percent drop. And guess what, during that period Baptisms dropped by the same amount. Its just another example of how Taylor Marshall has no idea what he is talking about. Most hilarious, however, was Sammons explanation for why they dropped so drastically between 2000 and 2005. That is when the child abuse thing broke. But Sammons invents an explanation, "Well, the year 2000 was when children who had only been exposed to the Novus Ordo grew up and started having kids. So because they had only known the Novus Ordo, they refused to baptize their children". Like many cultists, Sammons refuses to accept the obvious, and makes up a wild, crazy explanation that fits his narrative. It does not matter if people discovered lots of priests were child abusers, and therefore parents decided not let their children near a Catholic priest after 2002. No, the only thing that matters is that you invent some reason it was because of the Novus Ordo. . "LOL", to coin a phrase.

[@SaltyPalamite]

​@@tomthx5804 Speaking of being impervious to reality: In 1970, there were 3,731,386 live births in the US, and 1.089 million Catholic infant baptisms. In 2019, there were 3,745,540 live births in the U.S., and 582,331 Catholic infant baptisms. About the same number of live births, but a HUGE drop-off in infant baptisms. Ass while we're at it: the total number of priests in the US in 1970 was 59,192. In 2019, 35,939. (In the world, there were 419,728 priests in 1970, and only 414,582 in 2019. This is despite the fact that the world population went from 3.684 billion in 1970 compared to 7.7 billion in 2019. So the population more than DOUBLED, but we actually have LESS total priests. Great job, Vatican II.) The number of nuns in the US went from 160,391 in 1970 to 42,441 in 2019. There were 426,309 Catholic marriages in the US in 1970, compared to 137,885 in 2019. (Do you think this has anything to do with the plunge in Catholic infant baptisms, Tom?) The number of parishes in the US went from 18,224 in 1970 to 16,914 in 2019. This is all despite an INCREASE in absolute population of 205 million in 1970 to 328 million in 2019!! So much for all of the "evangelization" of Vatican II. In 1970, the percentage of US Catholics who attended Mass every week was 54.9%. In 2019 it was 21.1%. And, yes, in 2019, two-thirds of US Catholics reject the doctrine of transubstantiation. But I am certain that neither Vatican II nor the Novus Ordo mass had nothing to with it. Tom, prayers for you. Richard, I like you videos. They are all well-reasoned. But you need to confront the data.

[@tomthx5804]

@@SaltyPalamite I see you have trouble sticking to the point under discussion. And you are confusing various statistics, not knowing which time period we are talking about, etc etc. Like most SSPX influenced people, you try to avoid real conversation by trying to bury people with random facts. Now, I could write a whole book about these statistics. But stay on point, lets address them one at a time. IF you bothered to listen to my point, you would have noticed that I was talking about the decline in births in the 1970's, which caused the drop in the number of Catholic BAPTISMS in the 1970's. I pointed out that your lord and masters Marshall and Sammons simply did not understand what they were looking at, and tried to blame everything on Vatican II and the Novus Ordo. I pointed out that of course the number of Baptisms during the 70's declined, because less children were being born. I used that as one example of the sloppiness of Marshall and Sammons. Now, you first try to compare the birth rates/Baptisms FOR THE PERIOD 1970 to 2019, which is an entirely different time period. Yes, baptisms declined in that period. No one denies that. But the question is WHY? And the lame answer "Because of Vatican II and the Novus Ordo" is a lame and harmful answer, because there is no evidence of that as the cause. . As I pointed out, Marshall and Sammons have no idea what they were talking about, because they did not even address the effect the child abuse scandal had on Catholic Baptisms, which dropped precipitously after 2002. So yes, there was a huge drop off AFTER 2000 (really 2002, its just that the data we are working with only gets collected every five years) And guess WHY there was a huge drop off after 2002? There was a huge child abuse scandal, and Marshall and Sammons ignore that and instead try to say it was because of the Novus Ordo. Hilarious! Do you see why people like this harm the church by getting us to go down false rabbit holes rather than address the real problems? Do you see how fixating on Vatican II and the Novus Ordo keeps us from investigating the real causes of this decline? Extremist Traditionalists always refuse to stick their heads up and see reality. You focus on the US. Why did the church grow by leaps and bounds in Novus Ordo Africa and Asia? If Vatican II was the problem, those areas should have been decimated, but they grow like crazy. Guess what else you are not addressing. The priesthood became a homosexual club. Real men, men of faith, don't want to become priests in a homosexual club. They would stay away in droves. Same for the nuns. Now all of this is worth a lot of discussion and investigation. But as long as you guys are fixed on Vatican II and the Novus Ordo, it actually seems like you are trying to keep us from fixing the problems. NOTHING you have said shows any evidence at all that Vatican II was the problem.

[@jamesnielsen3095]

Oh, this should be a real goody. Ignore the heresy, yep. Here it comes. Ignore the train wreck!

[@tomthx5804]

Name the heresy of which you speak, ,oh greatest theologian of all time!

[@johntodryk9587]

Tom thx "we together with the Muslims worship the one true God" Checked in the original Latin by a canon lawyer, not same as but together with, the heresy stands. The Muslims worship one lonely god, they deny Jesus died on the cross, and blaspheme against the holy trinity. Need I say more?

[@tomgreene2282]

@@johntodryk9587 Whatever more you need say, you might read again J P II's address of 1999 .

[@tomthx5804]

@@johntodryk9587 Do you really think that every canon lawyer, every theologian in the world, simply missed that, and you and your schismatic buddies have found the truth? Do you think that 2540 bishops missed that at the Council? If you check the original language it does not say one True God. That is another Taylor Marshall falsification. It really works out to "The Muslims worship One God", which is a statement of fact. No, your Royal Holiness of Top Theologians, you don't know what you are talking about. How long have you been Pope of the Holy Catholic Church, and how long have you been making these authoritative pronouncements? Also, if you read Nostra Aetate, it says, just to make things clear “Indeed, she [the Church] proclaims, and ever must proclaim, Christ ‘the Way, the Truth and the Life,’ in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to himself.”

[@johntodryk9587]

TOM GREENE thanks Tom I'm of Polish descent and loved JP2 Was blind to this at the time,.I'm now trying to follow the words of St Thomas More. Gods servant first.

[@liberator275]

vatican 2 is a product of a gone by era. the council didn't deliver in the West. a new approach is needed in the West. the communities that adhere to classical catholicism keep growing whereas vatican 2 mainstream church keeps shrinking. there's no point in glorifying vatican 2. it did more harm than good in the West. what the West needs is a return to its roots - Latin Mass, devotions, catechism in proper form. clear, simple and concise. vatican 2 presented faith in a broad way which room open for interpretation, innovation, all sorts of abuses that ended with the pity state the church is in today.

[@ArmchairPhilosopher360]

"To defend the true tradition of the Church today means to defend the Council. […] We must remain faithful to the today of the Church, not the yesterday or tomorrow. And this today of the Church is the documents of Vatican II, without reservations that amputate them and without arbitrariness that distorts them.” -B16

[@liberator275]

@@ArmchairPhilosopher360 what is it that you want to defend? there's nothing left to defend. the churches are closed or closing in the West. are these the fruits of the council? the Church needs to change the formula fast before it's too late. The council has wrought havoc in the West. the church was pushed out of the culture and the void has been filled with all sorts of craziness. it's time to regroup and regain ground. but with vatican 2 it's a non-started as vatican 2 creates a defeatist mentality and outcomes.

[@ArmchairPhilosopher360]

@@liberator275V2 bashing, disrespecting Pope Francis and anti-ecumenism are all very un-Catholic. So, wrap yourself around in the mantle of Traditionalism to deflect all you want, like Taylor Marshall, but you're not more Catholic than the last several popes and 25 hundred Council fathers.

[@liberator275]

@@ArmchairPhilosopher360 you are missing the whole point. casting aside accusations of catholics who are part of the church and not SSPX, faitfhul catholics don't have much say. v2 is used as a blanket statement to justify any liberal craziness when actual corrections need to take place. are you happy with pachamama on the altar? what was the point of that? diversity of religions are stated in AbuDhabi document? kissing of koran by the pope? ecumenism where the church stripped everything down to accommodate protestant understanding of the mass. in the meantime the church is facing loss of membership, closure of parishes, and clinging to vatican 2 as some kind of panacea in the midst of the destruction.

[@ArmchairPhilosopher360]

@@liberator275 You make so many wild sensational assertions, and then wrongly pin them to the V2 bogeyman. It's like you never even watched a DeClue's Views video before. You have yet to demonstrate any of that is related to V2. You probably don't even know what a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy is, even though all your V2 bashing claims are based upon it. Turn off the Vortex, desist from your heretical behavior and at least read the documents before you trash them.

[@djb5255]

Senpai listens. Senpai loves us. Senpai gives us what we need.