An ode to the Namer: (almost) everything wrong with the Namer 30 in War Thunder

[@wonghy1115]

Israeli vehicle research Discord server (Shiryon Archive): discord.gg/b8rshJ5GsS My Discord server: discord.gg/8gdXWVf93n The lengthy bug report about Merkava's armour that I mentioned in the video(included is the link to the SLERA patent also shown in the video): community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/1eYOWMuJWJ3n

[@heathcliff9457]

Fun fact, They got the Namer weight wrong, And im not talking about decreasing the weight, The actual Weight of the Namer is closer to 63 tons without any turret, Reason being Not only it has the Merkava mk4 Armor, It has additional internal armor, All of it is on the sides bottom and top , to protect from mines, Urban kornet attacks from building tops, And the sides

[@wonghy1115]

@@heathcliff9457 I agree totally. It's the same case with the Merkava mk4, it should actually be about 80 tons, and should obviously have a metric fuck-ton more armour to go along with that weight

[@kawaii_milkshake2160]

NATO composite: layers of cardboard Russian ERA: Stalinium & Vibranium alloy with Unbreaking III enchantment

[@wonghy1115]

accurate...

[@dragonfruitfan4894]

@@wonghy1115 Gaijin is the type of company to give the abrams no armor because there's a "lack of information regarding the composition of the Chobham armor"

[@bamaman6478]

​@@dragonfruitfan4894because only 3 prototypes where made which is reasonable, but then they gave the t80b thermals when only ONE prototype was made????

[@wonghy1115]

@@dragonfruitfan4894 Yeah

[@Kwisss]

@@bamaman6478 All Abrams are just based on Swedish Trials in their eyes when that was an export M1A2 without DU.

[@BananaBreb]

You know they messed up when you can make a 19 minute video on what they got wrong

[@wonghy1115]

I'm making TheEuropeanCanadian proud

[@Anarcho-harambeism]

Honestly with the snail, I could go on our long ti-raids

[@meteorwt2122]

I can't believe gaijin is stupid enough to make it 20 tons heavier than the puma but give it worse protection. actually you know what I can believe gaijin would do that

[@wonghy1115]

Truely is a Gaijin certified classic. Pretty sure PUMA is also underarmoured in game, but unlike the Namer I'm not educated enough on the PUMA to say for sure

[@billlhooo6485]

Gaijin trying to make every nato tank made out of cardboard. Bruh

[@wonghy1115]

Even the unaligned nations'

[@m26pershing98]

Israel isnt in NATO

[@gigan6384]

​@@m26pershing98he said and unaligned nations bozo

[@m26pershing98]

@@gigan6384 I wasn't replying to him, bozo.

[@BARelement]

Isn’t a NATO, or a True MBT. But ok…

[@mig-23______]

We should try to get the bigger KZbinrs to talk about these armor problems with the merkavas and maybe gaijin would listen to them

[@wonghy1115]

That's the only way we win

[@PivotCyroy]

Gaijin loves combining various aspects of vehicles to create a single vehicle. Prototype Namer layout, Sideskirts of the in service APC, no APS like the actual in service Namer does. And then roll it out sith the in-service vehicle name. They did the same for the Challenger 3 TD, which is in fact not a Challenger 3.

[@wonghy1115]

tbf, the Namer 30 is clearly (supposed) to represent the irl Namer RCWS 30, (so it not having APS is completely understandable) they just stuffed it up, majorly

[@kiroma0]

Kornets have ridiculously high pen values because Gaijin doesn't know how to model ERA or tandem warheads properly. Instead of the tandem pre-detonating the ERA to make way for the HEAT to punch into the armour unobstructed, the missile will instead just have a regular HEAT warhead with enough additional pen to ignore the flat RHA value of whatever ERA Gaijin has chosen that it needs to ignore. They also seem to have forgotten that the slug looses a ton of effectiveness with distance so NERA is nowhere near as effective as it should be on ANY tank...

[@wonghy1115]

100%

[@viniwizi]

YESSS, Someone made a video on it!!! I made a reddit post on it a couple of weeks ago linking that issue, thankfully more people know about it

[@wonghy1115]

Israel tree giga-nerds together strong. Are you in Shiryon Archive? On discord?

[@viniwizi]

@@wonghy1115 Im not

[@wonghy1115]

@@viniwizi It's a 500 member Israeli mil tech and war thunder research server. The biggest of its kind. We work together to make bug reports every time gaijin releases a new fucked up israeli vehicle, lol If you're interested, the link is in the description, and pinned comment

[@yosef_tetro]

Hi Wonghy, I didn't know you have such a big channel (mine has 31 subs)... Thank you for helping me on the Meteor video (took me too long to edit, soon the English version will be out, I had to train for the army so I didn't have much time).

[@wonghy1115]

Ah hey man. I wouldn't call my channel big, but thanks lol. And no problem. Look forward to the English version, is the (hebrew?) one out already?

[@yosef_tetro]

@wonghy1115 Your channel is big for me. And the Hebrew version was the last video I made before i began my intense training, it's already out for quite some time thanks to you. The English one is finally back in edit, and now that I have two relatively free months for myself, I intend on making a Merkava complaint video and a challenge video about the M-51 in 1973 (most of it is already recorded, but I certainly would like it if you would join for the rest. Trust me, it's painful beyond imagination).

[@Rimmless]

Same thing as the Ariete, sadly gaijin likes to selectively choose what tanks should be fixed and they decide that a lot of western tanks should not be armored correctly and if you make a bug report with literal photo evidence they will say some bullshit response such as “our sources say different” but then you ask them for their sources and they refuse to give them to you signing that they did not actually use real sources and just pulled the info out their ass

[@wonghy1115]

Pretty much, yeah

[@backatitagain4649]

If the Merkavas+Namer were properly modeled it would affect the Russian win rate and we can’t have that happen

[@wonghy1115]

simply give all russian tanks 2000mm of frontal armour, then gaijin will oblidge with merky armour...

[@Xsveq]

7:35 even M60T Sabra can stop kornet missile but Merkava MK4 M cant stop

[@mrduck2706]

Love to see you do this with the Abrams

[@wonghy1115]

unfortunately I dont know nearly as much about the abrams as I do the merkava/namer

[@mrduck2706]

@@wonghy1115 fare

[@Agm1995gamer]

I believe most tanks in the game are not represented accurately in terms of weight, rather with empty weight. Merkava and abrams have similiar weights when you count in ammo and fuel and addon armor.

[@gametris7188]

i was explaining to a friend why the leopard 2 is good and then when i out of curiosity looked at the top tier merkavas and saw the massive armor is being penned by russian apfsds like it’s cardboard made me think something doesnt seem right but now you are confirming my suspicion that the armor on the top tier merkavas are inaccurate af

[@wonghy1115]

I guess this video was just what ya needed mate

[@BARelement]

Not all NERA, or composite is the same. The Merkava is made to fight militias, and insurgents. Not real armies with real MBTs. It isn’t meant to face up to date non export Russian MBTs. Heck especially not an Export Leopard 2, or Abrams.

[@wonghy1115]

@@BARelement I went over this common take in the video, and explained why it's rather nonsensical.

[@unutentequalsiasi5669]

I have do a report on report issue for the wrong armor of Merkava and Namer, right yesterday. Close in 40 minutes, they have ask again classified documents. They are kidding us

[@wonghy1115]

Probably got closed for being "duplicate" or something. Which in my opinion is total BS.... thanks for trying though

[@lfotzblitz7436]

There are a lot of inaccuracies in the game. For example the Wiesel doesn´t have neutral steering, the FOVs on the TOWs optics are wrong and gun depression is also too high. But that thing is two years old by now. They´re not gonna fix it.

[@MutheiM_Marz]

It‘s a video game man….not a mill sim…

[@wonghy1115]

@@MutheiM_Marz A video game that prides and advertises itself as "realistic" in terms of its mechanics and vehicles.

[@mehmetbozkurt3274]

TOW launcher also has to be manually operated by the gunner from the outside. Not everything will be perfect I guess.

[@Sphyxx]

Even tho its wrong the namer 30 is an insane vehicle and i absolutely love it

[@wonghy1115]

I've certainly seen and heard quite varied results about how people have found it in actual gameplay. Good you enjoyed it though

[@Nokknokkopenup]

its not that good, only 200 Rounds in the Turrret and only 4 spikes, Freccia is smaller with double the main gun ammo and double the spikes

[@stevenortiz9008]

​@@Nokknokkopenupyeah,freccia is just nuke printer,but since Israel has only thst ifv, it's ok,just ok (good players can olay it very well)

[@Nokknokkopenup]

@@stevenortiz9008 well even good players cant prevent their ammo not being hit and making u useless

[@HiraethGame]

I have this Namer and is still one of my best tanks, but only because other free sux and I not play soviets... 1. they messed up the spikes from some time, at first they hit planes, I haven't remembered such a case for weeks. They also now miss vehicles more often. 2. this is LIGHT tank, and is slower than other MBT's and Merkavas 3. slow rotation of the "turret" for 30mm I agree with everything in the video

[@wonghy1115]

Same story here. It's a fun tank to play... but is still kinda shit. It's only fun because in comparison, other tanks like the merkava mk3 and mk4 are that excruciating to play....

[@AmericanNationalist83]

also, namer rcws weighs 60 tons irl (assumably without fuel, crew, and ammo)

[@wonghy1115]

If you have a source for that, I'd love it. The Israeli mil tech research server and I would always love more data like that

[@Anarcho-harambeism]

I really doubt that, especially without a turret, there's no way it's 60 tons unloaded. Maybe, maybe with full battle rattle, but I doubt that

[@AmericanNationalist83]

@@wonghy1115 the wikipedia page for it states it is 60 tonnes, and their references are from the Israelis so I'd say it's safe to say that it's 60 tonnes.

[@AmericanNationalist83]

@@Anarcho-harambeism Probably 60 tonnes when loaded up with infantry as well but in warthunder there obviously isn't any infantry so it should be a little less than 60 tonnes.

[@AmericanNationalist83]

@@wonghy1115 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namer#:~:text=Namer%20;%20Up%20to%20290%20are%20currently,(commander%2C%20driver%2C%20RCWS%20operator)%20+%209%20troops

[@eafasdyyhgesghserg]

oh god almost a 20 minute video

[@wonghy1115]

Yap-maxing

[@khan-artist2443]

My biggest problem with the Namer from a gameplay perspective is the way in which they went about the additional modules. I will start this by saying that I think it's an okay idea for making harder-to-damage IFVs (like the 2S38 especially) more balanced and something that you can actually counter, but it just doesn't feel right. Playing this thing can be so infuriating when it feels like every shot that I am hit with takes out my FCS no matter where i get hit. Any single penetrating hit I should say. Almost every time I get penned, be it in the front or even the rear, there goes my FCS and ability to fight back, then the enemy just rushes me (because this thing is too slow to retreat most of the time) and gets rewarded with a free kill for not even aiming properly. Perhaps it is just my chronic bad luck that skews my experience, but it feels like this happens way too frequently. Something about the module needs to be changed, perhaps buffed in health or the hitbox reduced in size. Idk. It's just so frustrating to play, especially when you already can't do anything to enemy vehicles frontally most of the time, and even worse when you're going through the stock grind.

[@wonghy1115]

I know what you're talking about. I believe the reason it always seems to get hit, is down to the lack of side armour. There's nothing to stop ANY of the spall that makes it into the vehicles, so as the spall expands, and spreads, it inevitably hits the only other thing in the vehicle, past the front cabin: the electronic/FCS systems

[@puwa555]

Merkava is 80 tons, but with Gaijin's physics, 80 tons will break the game.

[@wonghy1115]

extremely true...

[@piecemakernoalias1018]

Technically it doesn’t really have any internal space for extra ammo because it’s all room for dismounts but yeah it’s still debilitating when you get hit in the external ammo

[@a_catfish5180]

Ah yes the merkava turret AND GUN that only weigh around 4 tons… I’m willing to bet the gun itself is that much

[@cannack]

kind of dumb at 10.3, serious demons ae situated at that B.R, especially how scuffed it is. It`s another psuedo-2s38 but even worse.. scuffed armor, larger, heavier, slower, half the caliber cannon and no airburst. the Merkava chassis has it`s flaws, it is aged, but it is not *this* bad. Those who say ``it was only designed to fight rpg`` should refresh their history a little, the IDF has a long history of tank battles and has learned how to build something that can handle more than just sub 100mm rockets.

[@wonghy1115]

Agree 100%. If it had even just accurate armour, it would be good at 10.3, maybe even 11.0. But we cant have that now can we....

[@SDZ675]

Gaijin just waiting for angry gamers to leak classified documents of modern vehicles at this point except for the Russian ones because those ones in game have better specs than irl versions.

[@wonghy1115]

That's becoming less and less of a conspiracy every day...

[@Erusean_pilot]

The stupid thing is, the merkava in game dies in one shot, irl it tanks rpg after rpg

[@wonghy1115]

the armour is super botched in game yeah

[@F15_C]

It aint an RPG that these are firing though, mostly 120/25mm APFSDS rounds. Merkava armor is mostly designed for urban combat, thats why its more effective irl

[@viniwizi]

@@F15_C so the syrians with their export modernized t72s were never a consideration during its design? Why design a MAIN BATTLE TANK, that can only do 1 thing? that argument makes no sense whatsoever. Its not as if you can give the front better KE protection and the sides better heat protection, you need to design it as if it was blocks of steel RHA apparently.

[@Kwisss]

@@F15_C For the Merkava 4 the consideration of HEAT/Chemical rounds was a focus but they also focused on having kinetic protection considering their enemies have T-90s, T-72s, etc. The composition LOS is nearly 1200 mm but only provides 500 mm of armor as they think rubber has a better KE multiplier than NERA.

[@BARelement]

Ahh yes, RPGs are the same as a high grade Kinetic round from a Leopard 2A7HU… And the content creator agreed with such statement. Maybe the community is almost just as inaccurate as gaijin. At this point, I don’t trust anything unless it’s documentation backing it. Everyone including gaijin just blatantly lies (gaijin seemingly less nowadays). Especially the many of the player base which has their own national, and political bias which makes the tank enthusiast space drama farm. Everything is rusha bias, even tho other vehicles simply don’t spall, or even BLOCK shells.

[@Tentacl]

Eh, if that experimental version was actually put in combat they would probably put the sideskirts, cmon.

[@wonghy1115]

While that's true, it was never intended to go into service anyway, so giving it sideskirts is fictionalizing the vehicle. Keep in mind I'm being pedantic, the Namer's sideskirts are by far the least of its problems. I believe experimental vehicles that never made it into service, yet were intended to do so, should be added in the state that they would have been in when put into service. However with testbed/experimental vehicles that were never intended on being actively used, I believe they should be left as is, to the best of their ability. This is just simply personal preference, though.

[@maggyyolokraut1941]

welcome to the puma IFV experience! your shit will never be fixed

[@wonghy1115]

(yay)

[@logicmaster756]

19 minutes tehy really messed up

[@wonghy1115]

Yeah lmaoooo

[@dav3y001]

cant have different armour if you arnt russia who gets every different composite and ERA modeled different but any nato/western vehicle all has the SAME ERA and composites from the fucking 70's.

[@wonghy1115]

Meanwhile gaijingles cant comprehend SLERA armour still "SLERA, NERA, close enough" -gaijin

[@dav3y001]

@@wonghy1115 they will just make their own interpretation and say everyone but them is wrong. see Chally 2 TES armour as an example in their blog about it they called it Armor Shield R despite it being ASPRO-HMT which is significantly different in that its a mix of ERA and composites then spout bullshit of their interpretation of STANAG 5 including vehicle armour + add-on armour which how does that work with add-on armour.

[@wonghy1115]

@@dav3y001 Ah so the UK has their own version of israel's SLERA-NERA issue? interesting

[@blanchbacker]

Gaijin is such a joke. Insert stream of slurs against Russians here

[@veronikakuznetov7186]

I'm guessing you'll have a similar rant about the Baz Meshupar when you get to it, they butchered it

[@wonghy1115]

Unfortunately I'm not as educated on the Air tree's issues as I am the ground tree's. The only issue with the Baz Meshupar that I know of off the top of my head is the massively incorrect cockpit, something I went over in the previous video I uploaded. I'd love to know what else is wrong with it though if you could list it out for me. I have no doubt that the list would be lengthy

[@AmericanNationalist83]

how come the mounts for the side skirts were still there? almost as if they weren't on during testing but could still be mounted

[@wonghy1115]

Good question. My answer: The Namer hull used for the RCWS was very unlikely to have been custom built for the purpose of being the testbed. The sideskirts would have been originally attached to the hull ever since it left the factory, and were simply removed as they were not needed during its use as a testbed

[@AmericanNationalist83]

@@wonghy1115 so that would mean that during testing they weren't mounted but if it were to be sent into combat the side skirts would be mounted.

[@wonghy1115]

@@AmericanNationalist83 Yes, however the vehicle was never intended to enter combat or service, and as such, adding the sideskirts fictionalizes the vehicle. I believe that if an experimental vehicle that never made it into service, but was intended to, comes to the game, it should be implemented in the state that it *would* have entered service in, if possible. However for vehicles like the Namer RCWS 30, that were experimental, but never intended to go into service, they should come to the game in the exact state that they existed in irl, not a fictional "in service" variation. That's just personal opinion though.

[@solreaver83]

Oh no, you used gaijin and common sense in the same sentence.... You done it now 😮

[@wonghy1115]

those words are exclusive 😭

[@alabamaraptor8610]

i dont understand gaijin at all, even the BR this thing is at makes no sense, theres no lineup for it. In my opinion, give it all of its armor, stuff a bunch more spikes in there and move it into 11.3

[@Agm1995gamer]

Thank you

[@jobama_osama3435]

Bro needs to do one on the 2a7v

[@wonghy1115]

Undoubtedly, but unlike with the namer/merkava, I am not a giga-nerd for the leopards

[@jetabyss13]

Gaijin should add a Palestine tree but it's just old Soviet vehicles and they get the Snail's blessing AKA Russian bias.

[@wonghy1115]

wouldnt actually be any vehicles available, not even toyotas with guns. Would be funny though

[@jetabyss13]

@@wonghy1115 pretty much, the most I know about Palestinian armor is whenever occasionally the PLO or Hamas seizes an older Israeli tank like a Magach or maybe they pull out an old rust bucket T-54

[@wonghy1115]

@@jetabyss13 It would truely be the tech tree of all time

[@EstellammaSS]

Hey at least y’all got IFVs (sobs in French)

[@wonghy1115]

at least the french premium one is playable lmfaooo. Hope gaijin gives france a TT ifv soon though

[@easy4life23.]

The name was always namer rcws u just need to hover over the stat card The namer rcws 30 does have side skirts btw u just cherry picker photos it took me 60 seconds to find a pic with side skirts even found a pic of it with hull mounted trophy for testing

[@Anarcho-harambeism]

I wanna know why this suppsedly has 127 views, but 120k likes lol

[@wonghy1115]

Probably a visual bug, a funny one at that. It shows it as having 16 likes for me

[@prvt.harumi6821]

because its not russian of course! AXAXAXAXAXA

[@petrkdn8224]

im not saying the model is accurate but believing a random reddit post on an image... is very questionable... and how do we know its from an actual kornet and not some other atgm? lot of reports from ww2 misidentify entire tanks, how do we know they here DIDNT misidentify a super fast missile?

[@wonghy1115]

I agree with you, and I believe the fault lies in me not showing off the good ten other photos that exist (not to mention ones i simply havent found) of other Kornet hits. also as far as missile identification goes, different ATGM's will leave visibly different results, and the launchers of Kornet missiles are very distinctive

[@tomeryakobi3007]

We had at the beggining of the iron sword opertion a tank in our platoon that got hit in the left turret cheek by a kornet we just replaced it amd he went back fighting in less then 2 hours

[@wonghy1115]

@@tomeryakobi3007 Modular armour 💪

[@viniwizi]

If the kornet actually could pen the MK4 the losses from the fights in gaza and lebanon would be through the roof, and now with the gaza campaign a lot of videos of Merkava4`s tanking RPGs and ATGMS and walking it off have surfaced.

[@wonghy1115]

@@viniwizi what are you talking about, 100 billion million trillion gazillion merkavas have been vaporised by glorious fighters!!!11!11!! /s

[@DangerMike709]

Stand with palestine

[@teentitanss1845]

Why?

[@thatcrusader3922]

mf this is WT bug report video nothing political :sob: why do yall have to bring politics into every game you go into