Analog vs Digital Synths: Roland System 8 vs Prophet 6 - A Modern Classic vs Classic Emulations

Whats the difference in real terms ie when creating a track? If the digital recreation is effectively sonically identical in a mix, then why do we still buy very expensive new synths based on old technology? I'm lusting after a Prophet 5.. but why? whats wrong with me ;) The System 8 sounds great - is it just the looks that put me off - am I that shallow??
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0:00 intro
2:03 overview
4:21 System 8
9:54 Prophet 6
14:31 Basic Tones
19:44 Matching Patches
37:45 Final Thoughts

[@VultureCulture]

Thank you so much! You're my new favorite channel on KZbin!

[@StarskyCarr]

High praise indeed... thanks

[@gatorgoforth3097]

I love my System 8. Last night I recorded knob changes in the sequencer, set it to random playback. Then I would play notes while the sequence plays random blips and bloops and screeches. It sounded like a Richard Devine track. Try it out. My friend said it sounded like modular synthesis.

[@StarskyCarr]

Nice idea.. I'll have a go

[@shadowhenge7118]

"would i be satisfied...?" Scans the room to see 30 other synths... No... No you would not be.

[@StarskyCarr]

This really made me laugh 😂

[@tonyodoherty6241]

Excellent work as usual.....very enjoyable and informative.

[@poseidonswe]

Love have the system8 patches

[@LesterH25]

I forgot to add on a previous comment. Your videos are really helpful and entertaining because they're authentic. Cheers dude.

[@StarskyCarr]

Very nice of you to say so thanks

[@SONWU]

Great stuff mate. Love your videos...whatever you feel about the synth is real. I mean sometimes it can go the other way and you like the sound (or look) of a cheap piece of gear, sadly often it's the more expensive one :)

[@seancharles8461]

This was awesome with some great insight. Would be great to get a studio tour too!

[@StarskyCarr]

Maybe one day!

[@0e0]

@@StarskyCarr don't bother...your videos are already great.just do you

[@garyturner5204]

What a great video comparing the Roland System-8 to the Sequential Prophet 6! Thank you very much. You really came incredibly close to copying the sounds of your patches on the Prophet 6 on the System-8!

[@olaftorske]

The green lights on the System-8 is ingenious - on stage you can spot it from miles away.

[@StarskyCarr]

Hadn’t thought of that!

[@jeffblack5024]

It goes into a (very green) light show if you don’t touch it for a few minutes too.

[@garyturner5204]

I think the light show can be disabled on the System-8. :)

[@jackthemurray]

Great vid Starsky! I really appreciated all your Voyager comparisons. That was my dream synth and I finally just got one! Now looking for something to cover my analog poly needs. I definitely overlooked the System 8 at first a few years ago. It just seemed like another gimmicky digital synth. But since learning about it's vintage emulation of synths I've always wanted - it's getting more and more tempting. The Prophet Rev2 is also a contender. We'll see what I end up buying..... but regardless, your videos always prove influential in that decision. So thanks again!

[@kierenmoore3236]

Which did you end up buying … ?!

[@mrbreaker101]

I have both sitting behind me right now. I bough the System 8 first, back in 2017. I love it and wont part with it. But as soon as I heard the P6 I was in love. S8 has a lot in its favour though: FM is just brill Performance mode Menu system (it's a lot of diving but after living it with a while its like muscle memory and actually works well) Sequencer (especially motion sequencing)

[@rentedwerewolf6159]

I've had the System 8 for a few years and I love it. It saves a lot of space having 4 synths in one that covers the early 80s Roland sound, as well as the modern features in the S8 engine. I still want a Prophet 6 (or OB), but they are all different enough to compliment each other.

[@mikelunz]

You're not kidding. In fact, I have such a hard time knowing which one to buy first that I never even buy any of them do to FOMO on the one(s) I won't have.

[@MarshalArnold]

Nice work! System 8 hangs in there on most of those patches. I'm pretty surprised really. Very cool!

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks, glad to have you popping by :)

[@BeatmastersBr]

very cool video !!! I have System-1, which is a much more humble version of System-8, I compared it with my Prophet08 and it sounds amazing !!!

[@deanbr6ndo70]

The system 8 is simply stunning especially when you program a sound in performance mode which gives you two system 8s albeit 4 note polyphony.the menu FX don't make any difference to the front panel FX controls,which I think is a bit daft.at the end of the day,they are two totally different synths and shouldn't be compared to each other,just know that the s8 sounds fantastic.

[@NyakzOTSD]

Like I have said on previous Starsky Carr Videos - Starsky Carr Visuals should make you realise your ability to program is more important then the gear acquisition syndrome we have or are currently suffering from. He consistently proves once you can program, while you may never sound exactly the same, you can be in the ballpark to the point that even other professionals will struggle to hear a notable difference. Overall I am buying 2 more synths, making 4 analogs in total and then I am done! I need to work on my programming ability and understand how Filters, envelopes, LFOs, etc all work together to create a sound. That is far more important than working hard at my job for another synth to sit in my room lol.

[@tomc7299]

Love my system 8.. 😃😃😃 great vid thanks

[@TheLukejitsu]

Here's my two pence. Most people listening to music won't be able to hear a great deal of difference and when they are dancing with their friends, they are not going to get their coats and go home because someone used a VST or a behringer on a track. There is however a difference, but is it typically significant enough? The differerence between a vintage analog system and a modern replication is the same difference you will find between two different vintage analog systems of the same brand and model. The thing is with these old synths using old components, is over time they become unique through wear and tear until each one ends up with its own characteristics unique to that particular machine - its not to far off what would make the sound of a guitar unique over the years or any instrument.

[@stickyfox]

Just remember, there are people in the world who can hear the difference between an ordinary wall outlet and a $150 gold-plate Wattgate too.

[@mynameistechno]

The thing is someone has to work with this in the first place. Easy to guess i need to have fun to make a proper track. So: i always will get the machine i like to touch, to feel, to look at it even if its not sounding "better".

[@stickyfox]

@@mynameistechno oh I hate plugins. My Mirage DSK still works. Software I bought five years ago no longer runs under today's OS's. And yes, to many artists (myself included) the tangible aspect of hardware is crucial to the performing experience. So I'm with ya there. But we have to be careful when comparing models to "the real thing." For one thing, Stanley mentions that all analog gear ages in a unique manner, and honestly most of the time it was not flattering. Even brand new you'd get a really rotten-sounding instrument sometimes. If you were well-established in the community you'd know the people who could do the kind of tuning that it takes to fix that, but by many practical standards, the vast majority of analog gear in existence today does not sound "better" than a plugin. And of course also remember that technology advances. If you looked at a modeling synth in the 90s and dismissed it as bollocks, you may be neglecting that models are way better now. Once you emulate the actual semiconductor physics you're no longer emulating the instrument, you're building one out of effectively real parts. But there's always gonna be that pesky USB delay, isn't there?

[@mrbreaker101]

@@stickyfox One of the biggest names in techno made an acid track that was in the top 10 on beatport for over a year. She used a TB-3, not a real 303. I know because I asked her. The fetishisation of analog kit and original hardware is more in the head of the owner than in the finished result.

[@brunodadivore9606]

Yes and no. Comparing one VCO with DCO, only one, you have a lot more of harmonics low end waves from the VCO. But the digital techno today is able to layer so many harmonic variations of the initial one that your ear interprets that is the same. Personally I lost 80% of my hearing (so I can make savings using DCOs!) but normal people hear the difference at low audition power 70 dB for instance. Another new modern approach is the one from Modal Cobalt 8 where you stack harmonics with algorithms

[@kiko1935]

Part of it is psychological, you know it's digital so you question the authenticity of the sound you're hearing. At the same time there is something to be said for a waveform passing through an analog filter- in my case it really does seem like pleasing sounds come easier with analog. That's why the perfect solution (for me anyhow) is digital analog hybrids like the summit, korg dw800, ensoniq ESQ1. Having the flexibility of digital oscillators and analog filters is the best of both worlds. Plus it kind of puts your mind at ease lol

[@illford6921]

I've never liked analog synths, too expensive and not as powerful. I love the filters but a lot of synths have analog filters or both digital and analog ones.

[@kierenmoore3236]

@@illford6921 Analog synths, not as powerful? Wut? Maybe you meant versatile … ? The power/heft of the P6 here is one of the things that makes it stand out easily from the S8 …

[@KordTaylor]

This is great. Thanks so much for this. It *seems* like Roland might be losing the S8 in favor of all the Zencore stuff. It kind of bums me out in that I was just hoping to get an S8 and they would optimize their PLUGOUT plugin versions so they would't be CPU-heavy. I don't like all the menu stuff in the new Jup X. Basically I just want HW and SW Jup and Juno with patch compatibility. I am interested to hear your thoughts on the new Jup when you get it. Good thing I'm Subscribed! 😀

[@rhill109]

I really liked the System 8. Sounds great for what it is. But as a player, the slightly smaller keys soured me to the point that I sold it to a friend. Also the construction seemed so light that I felt like I was about to break it just playing normally.

[@MIDERA]

There were for sure differences in how the oscillators sounded or how the patches were set up. Usually I preferred the Prophet 6, but I think a little more tweaking, normally to throw the oscillators out of tune to each other would have improved some of the S8 patches. But the drum sound you came up with - I THOUGHT was coming from the P6 when it was actually the S8. So, I’m impressed with the S8.

[@NoirEtBlancVie]

Great stuff!

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks, glad to have you popping by :)

[@ZZKJ396]

I actually like the lights but I'm vision impaired so this is a big plus for me. Any chance of a vid showing how you made the patches?

[@ZZKJ396]

@Luke Maybe pick up a cheap eBay System-1 and give it a go. It hasn't got a screen so its not an issue, jumping to a System-8 is a lot easier afterwards too. P.S. a webcam carefully aimed at any synth screen, then projected onto a larger monitor can help also in some cases.

[@brunostroszek3928]

Per buck the system 8 is one of the most FUN and useful sounding synths i have ever used. Getting somewhere with your sounds is just so easy and satisfying with it. Only gripe is the cheap plastic case, but it is ridiculously light.

[@brunostroszek3928]

@Luke not worth the cost for them to tool up a production run for such a thing. the virtual models are more than accurate enough and run on a much simpler and easier integrated machine that costs less to manufacture. also roland are more forward looking at doing new things, behringer may keep on cloning old machines to their wallets content.

[@namenaim1560]

Possibly there is no such thing as a musical or none musical sound. It all depends on context , arrangement and composition. Therein lies the skill of the musician and the openness of the listener. Possibly.

[@jandoedel1012]

I like your vids, and your dedication to the subject. Try to giggle less :p. Keep up the good work.

[@NickHowesAstro]

I spent almost 20 years developing synths for Yamaha R&D, and would have killed (at the time) for the power in the System-8. Having sat with a ton of synths of late, comparing... I have forked out for a System-8 (already had a System-1). IMHO it is one of the greatest synths of the last 30 years, and a worthy successor to the JP8/Juno106 etc. Owned a real JP8 and Juno 60 for years in the 90s, and the emulations are next to flawless, plus, with the green "dialled down" it's not as offensive :-). Great video Starsky, keep it up. Hopefully see you at Synthfest in Oct

[@StarskyCarr]

Thanks Nick, I got the Al side panels for that vintage vibe - doesn't work!! :) and yeah I'll be there in Oct.

[@NickHowesAstro]

@@StarskyCarr Yeah, I just wish they'd stuck the ACB/System-8 in the JP-X case... but... hey ho..

[@TheCasalinthesky]

The system 8 is a powerhouse I love mine

[@FakeGlasses]

I would really love a video from Starsky Carr about using a synth in a band and cutting through the mix. I absolutely love the OB6's of the world etc. in isolation or in tracks and with reverb pedals etc., but when you're in a band playing in a mix, it can be very hard to get it to cut through. VA Synths like Nord tend to send a bit less pretty/luscious, but they cut through mix like a knife. Would love to have a better understanding of why that is and if there's way to program around/account for that when using a thicker analog synth etc.

[@StarskyCarr]

A huge topic... I've played in bands particularly when I was younger, and trying to be heard above the guitarists was always a nightmare. Mainly because they feel they have to constantly play over everything! Listen to how Prince arranges his tracks with the Oberheim on the 1999 album.. The synth takes a central role, playing riffs as a central part of the track - the guitar is often the accompaniment. Too often the synth is seen as secondary and sole a background instrument playing accompaniment to the guitars... why I refuse to play brass sounds!! You have to make space for it.. if you're playing covers its easy enough but on original tracks it takes some discipline.

[@robertothayer5123]

Wow! I love the green lights on my System-8. I even don a black and green suit whilst playing shows.

[@outerspacebass]

I had a similar issue with the filter knob audibly stair stepping on my bass station. I noticed it didn't do that over midi from the sequencer. So I use a midi controller to play it live.

[@rrocktoo]

Thanks for taking the time to wring out a range of sounds for us to enjoy. The LED colour on the System 8 did put me off when I was on a shopping trip to Absolute Music in Poole. To my eyes it was ugly, more computer based game than a musical instrument. If it had been Casio branded it would have been passed off as a toy, despite the sound capability. If System 8 proves reliable it will make a good secondhand purchase down the line.

[@jazzjeffjazzjeff]

I love the Prophet 6. My fav synth of all time. Warm AND transparent! It’s pure money to me, worth every cent. Thank you Dave Smith, the gentle giant of the synth world!

[@mrdiggie3321]

I prefer the Prophet in pretty much every case. It has more life to it. Sure they're close, but you can tell which is which pretty easily.

[@StarskyCarr]

Yeah they’re definitely different and spotting which is which is pretty easy - whether you prefer Roland or Prophet filters is another things here. I’ve been playing around with the Jupiter Xm that has Roland and sequential emulations for the filters and they’re completely different. Just like they are here.

[@freshkidblaze]

I definitely want a prophet (possibly a rev 2, just seems like a timeless unit) but I do own repro 1/5 and it does satisfy me to a degree but I find using hardware gives me different results

[@StarskyCarr]

I agree. the hands on experience encourages more exploration in my experience.

[@cosmicaddress7851]

Your P6 sounds fantastic! I had a Mopho X4 which should have been great but was quite disappointing. It look a lot of programming (modulation with the 4LFOs) to get a nice evolving organic sound, and the very limited slop meant it always sounded contemporary to me. I bought a System 8 and it takes me straight back to the 80s and sound much more lush and evolving. In a way the digital recreation sounds more analog / less sterile than my Mopho ever did! Thanks for the video. I'd be interested in your thoughts on your ARP versus the digital emulations too.

[@chrismurphy9750]

Nice video - it's amazing how similar you were able to make those two quite different synths sound. You can actually buy wooden ends for the system 8 if it makes you feel better about it. Haha...

[@tyler23sb]

I’ve got the wooden ends on mine and I think it looks way better that way

[@LesterH25]

I have the Virus and Rev 2 and S8 The System 8 is just different. It has its place and I like the contrasting green with black and grey of the others.

[@ohheyitskevinc]

I do love my green machine - the sounds are pretty awesome. The only thing I dislike is the lack of aftertouch. To be honest - I have a 106 and an MKS-80/JX-10 and can get very close to the original hardware as ACB is awesome, but there’s something about playing the originals if you already have them or they’re reasonably priced. If you don’t own originals or if they’re expensive to buy - the System-8 will easily get close to doing the job well. Fancy sharing your presets one day? 😉

[@originaali]

I have noticed that it is a lot easier to get pleasant tones with analog synth because of its limitations. They overdrive more gentle than digital. If you dont know how to make certain sound i think its easier to overproduce and mess it with digital. First when i tried my System 8 i was stunned how harsh it sounded. Then i realized there are so many things that overdrive the sound. Not so pleasant in my opinion. But then i learned how to dial knobs back and control them it started to sound nice! Slightly overdrive multiple things will lead you to places that analog synth cant (volume, osc mix, amp, tone, fx level). Hundreds of different harmonics with same tone. I think System 8 would be great if Roland add same kind of modulation style like nord and Dave smith (Press lfo and turn destination knob the amount you want it to affect example) Or just add little modulation options under the menu 🙊 lack of fm modulation is a shame too.

[@djangofett4879]

its already in there. the sequencer records knob data so you can mod this thing to oblivion, its just not in the way many people are used to.

[@originaali]

@@djangofett4879 this oblivion is 4 parameter changes per step and is tied to a sequencer. I meant basic patch modulations which system 8 lacks big time. It was still quite nice synth i dont say that. Motion recording can produce sounds that normal modulation cant produce but sometimes it is nice to have more in depth modulation matrix to fullfill everyones needs. 1lfo was not that. ✌️

[@housebandthexenos2569]

I don't know about you guys but I can hear the real analog synth from the System 8 a mile away. Doesn't mean the system 8 doesnt sound good but it still aint foolin me.

[@blankspace0000]

Yeah it becomes obvious when comparing the two. Not sure if I'd be able to tell from just hearing the Roland tho.

[@maccagrabme]

It could easily fool you especially in a track. The main question is, are you inspired by the sounds and can you make a track on it? Would you be able to make a better track using analog and the answer is not necessarily.

[@housebandthexenos2569]

​@@maccagrabme Maybe it could easily fool YOU, but it's not about fooling anybody, it's just about what that sound sounds like. End listeners don't know or care how something is done but they can hear and feel the emotion from sound. End listeners don't know if you've mixed a song on a Neve or not at all, but they can like the sound or not. Anything you do that you hear helping your song you should do. This has nothing to do with not liking or using digital synths. In fact I have 13 digital synths if you don't count dozens of plugins. My music is a mixture of both analog and digital synths in almost every song. If owned a System 8 you bet I'd use it but I wouldn't think it sounds like an an analog and that's exactly why I would use it, because it doesn't.

[@kvmoore1]

I agree. I had a chance to briefly play a System 8 at a music store after messing with a Prophet 6 and came to the same conclusion a year ago. I'm not saying the System 8 sounds bad by any means because it doesn't. However, it is definitely not analog.

[@msbmanagement7301]

I love digital modeling and I would say the system 8 just doesn't sound right

[@boothbuster]

One thing's for sure - even if it sometimes looks like they don't... Roland DOES know what they're doing (usually)! :) Still thinking about this one now that System-1 is discontinued. Just finally got a TB-3 and it's so much power packed into the form factor, I love it, really wish I'd gotten it new when it came out (loved the TR-8 and TR-8s, just was never 'sure" about the TB-3 since it seemed limited and on video it didn't look so nice, much different in person as many things are).

[@dalelaushman8749]

Are you lusting over a P5R4 because its a P5 without service issues and the general vintage wonkiness? I have to admit I was also intrigued with the P5R4, but I have a P6 which ticks the analog-poly box for me very well. For me, the P6 is only missing a 5 octave keyboard. For us synth aficionados I suspect that in a mix it's probably very very difficult to tell the P6 isn't a P5R4 when using the P5 patches on the P6. Now, perhaps if I wasn't in a vintage FX unit acquisition frenzy I might consider the P5R4 because I just love the P5 interface and mystique. Thanks for putting this video together!

[@tristantheuerkorn5124]

The last pad is very nice! ;)

[@tristantheuerkorn5124]

haven't seen your report to the end. Yes, please do a comparison with the Virus. 😍

[@dxtrs_mnpltr]

The system8 and system1 are both great sounding powerful synths. I don’t have a problem at all with the green leds, I actually really like them.

[@hislittlecuzin]

I can watch sound demos for days... Or just one Starsky Carr video and completely understand the sonic capabilities.

[@sK3LeTvM1]

Nice job. Of course there is a difference between the 2 synths. They are 2 different engines and one doesn't sound better than the other. However, blind tests at university level have long proven that people simply can not tell the difference between analog and digital. It's also the musical instruments industry that wants you to believe that analog sounds 'better'. Well, as soon as we have a calibrated measuring tool that indicates 'better' or warmth on a scale, we might continue the discussion. And finally, if there was a difference, modern FPGA technology finally closes that gap.Sound guru Andrew Scheps explains on KZbin : "Analog is a myth". And I'm afraid that if this multi awarded sound engineer says this, he's not making a mistake...

[@kierenmoore3236]

Lol, where are these peer-reviewed University meta-studies … ?! 🤣

[@NegHead]

I think the prophet barely comes out on top in most comparisons, in some subtle ways. Still very impressive what the system 8 can do!

[@kiko1935]

I actually picked up a sys-8 the other day and I love it. But one thing that's strange- the jp8 plugout seems to not sound as plucky as the Roland Cloud version? It's almost like the envelope doesn't open all the way?

[@StarskyCarr]

weird... I thought they used the same models so exactly the same coding - maybe not?

[@stillsbyjann]

Velocity off Knob active?

[@synthplayer1563]

Yes, they sound similar, but I can hear differences and I'm pretty sure the Prophet would inspire me a lot more. Music consumers won't hear this, but that's not the point. Creating and playing music (not consuming it) has a lot to do with feeling good and inspiring about playing an instrument. And there the Roland simulation box doesn't convince me.

[@FunkTree]

Isn’t it a psychological too, I know the mechanical connection is very very important to enjoy playing an instrument, solid case aftertouch etc , but from the sound kitchen the only difference was with the filter loosing bass on high resonance settings

[@olinred]

@@FunkTree Yes I agree. However, I think with analog, there are more "happy accidents" than compared to digital. With digital I feel like most accidents are just... accidents and generally don't sound good. Meanwhile with analogue you can get in between things more and so the accidents are more 'organic'. Compare the spectogram of an analog filter versus a digital. The steps are more granular on analog 100% of the time. They are curved versus jagged. I think this translates ultimately to the whole synth where things may randomly drift a little versus a purely digital synth that will follow a pre-defined despite random algorithm. Two analog synths with the knobs to the same setting will sound different but a VST will sound more similar. My 2 cents...

[@gertumlauf5471]

It doesn't take hours to Programm the s8 Like you do, it Takes years and years to learn programming Like you are able to... And of course talent. So i gonna have to spend more and go with the P6

[@gsten2116]

The roland sounds better for sure.

[@mallery7]

P6 sounds warmer. I’ve used VA synths a long time and there is a difference.

[@TheMachinesWon]

Would love to see a comparison video with the Novation summit vs an analog synth. It seems like such a great synth but it doesn’t get mentioned much or receive the same kind of love and admiration others do, I’m guessing bc it’s a hybrid.

[@AURELIOPENNA]

Summit is actually an analog synth

[@INFINITYREALM]

@@AURELIOPENNA Like the Peak it has, Analog filter and distortion, but the oscillators are digital

[@kierenmoore3236]

The Summit/Peak oscillators are FPGA - and they are amazing … absolute chameleon synths … The UDO Super6 has FPGA oscillators, too.

[@mymockumentary9716]

For me I find it challenging to get a satisfactory consistent analogue sound from digital synths. That being said, I like how digital synths can compliment analogue synths. We don't drive cars designed for Grand Prix on public streets and the same can be said for synths. Digital gear is excellent for travelling and recording, but without analogue synths as a baseline it's not easy to make those micro mistakes that give new character to sound, um... something like that, I think we call all agree we are firmly rooted in the hybrid arena :)

[@garyturner5204]

Are the patches you created available to download for the Roland System-8?

[@overload8741]

Great video! I would like to know, on the System 8 when you put SH101, System 100, Pro Mars, SH02, thoses are monophonic in the VST, but does the System 8 is able to play it Poly or they still Mono even in the synth?

[@StarskyCarr]

Good question.. No they're monophonic on the System 8

[@overload8741]

@@StarskyCarr Arfff! Im sad! I was hoping it are the only one to play it poly... I try thoses vst and for me the best sounding vst of the roland cloud is SH101 and System 100, the System 100 is my favorite one But you can't play it poly... i would definitively be interested by a System 8 if i could. Would be nice to compare the sound of the VST vs the Hardware synth, i think the System 8 would sound slightly better than the vst.

[@DestroyER82]

@@StarskyCarr Bah, thats plain silly. :l

[@AndrewJohnClive]

Thank you Mr Carr..You can take the quantising off the filter...

[@StarskyCarr]

Oh wow... how? Excellent news. I’ve been looking for a solution for literally years. I read this on the DSI forum and gave up in the end: Just letting anybody who is interested in this thread know that I spoke with Dave Smith at an event in a music training school recently and asked him a question pertaining to this topic. He replied that there is no way to turn off the semi-tone quantization on the oscillator frequencies and no future plans to do so in any future firmware updates. He said it was designed that way to keep it in tune, or something along those lines

[@station2station544]

@@StarskyCarr Thank goodness Dave Smith quantizes the pitch of his VCO's. We use the 12 note chromatic scale of western music. I definitely don't want to reign in the wild horse of a freewheeling pitch knob x two or three VCO's. Nightmare. If you're slightly out of tune in the end you can use the master tuning knob. Even the sequencer in my 1976 Oberheim Two-Voice is pitch quantized.

[@sjfarrell2.03]

They both sound fantastic, IMO. The £1000 price difference should not be forgotten. That's a lot of money.

[@adastra123]

For me a synthesizer has to look appealing then the knobs and sliders have to feel quality and just make you want to tweak. Talent will make any synth sound great with a bit of reverb and delay. These old school synths for me tend to satisfy a long fascination I had since I was a teen . Being in Ireland nobody had these 'alien' musical instruments. I would see them on tv and hear them on Jarre records. Wishing you could play on one. So getting my hands on an old analogue synthesizer would be quenching my thirst from the past. They still sound beautiful. The behringer crave will get me through for now. Great channel by the way.

[@AlekVila]

You are a patch wizard! It sounds like the Prophet sounds had sharper attacks. Was the Roland unable to get there, or just some differences in programming?

[@StarskyCarr]

Probably more to do with the shape of the envelopes themselves this is often overlooked (and was by me for years) but the envelope slips make a huge difference to the feel of certain sounds and can be what gives a synth a distinct character. So the speed may not be the difference but the rate of change (shape of the slope). Something like the Deepmind has tweakable shapes you can use which demo quite how different they can be.

[@brunodadivore9606]

Thanks for your comprehensive approach of your selected piece of the comparison: the analog engines. But don't you think the real competitor would be Prophet 3 which, cost wise, is near the System 8 with a lot of Dave Smith flavours that we like ?

[@StarskyCarr]

Maybe... but I don’t own one :)

[@StarskyCarr]

Also, the point here was that they're both polysynths... but one is so much more expensive. Why do I gravitate toward the expensive analog, when the cheaper digital may be its equal or even better in some aspects.

[@brunodadivore9606]

@@StarskyCarr sure, and staying Roland-tuned, Prophet 6 price is close to a Fantom6 an other serious beast in the yard...

[@StarskyCarr]

@@brunodadivore9606 yeah, that'd be interesting.

[@blackmirror5559]

. The Roland System-8 really is superb and possibly underrated but certainly under-appreciated. .

[@rjbush7955]

Both sound similar to me. Sometimes one sounds better than the other. Your patches are nice. I have a similar taste which made me pause for thought. Dave Smith pioneered the MIDI standard. Why didn't he create a protocol to pass patches from one synth to another manufacturer's synth. Or would SysEx work?

[@StarskyCarr]

If they all standardised the same MIDI CC for similar parameters it could work - which they almost do. The problem is that all synths have different functions and different parameters so you can't map one onto another easily.

[@joenasgoldie7222]

Would be nice to make a topic about your studio i am really interested in your gear

[@fabimawn]

I really love those custom patches, is there somewhere I can download them for my System 8?

[@StarskyCarr]

I’m not sure I’ve still got them tbh. My S8 had an issue and I tried to fix it with a full reset.. duh! Turned out it was a hardware issue caused by a courier.

[@fabimawn]

Ah bummer! Has it been fixed by Roland? Or you dont have it anymore? Would love to see some more videos on it for inspiration. You are quite good of a sound designer on both the Prophet and S8! Also yeah pretty late response :P

[@DG-ss1gc]

I’d call both of these virtual synths , the prophet has a lot more analog though. You should def check out “Scott’s synth stuff” and his system 8 vs Juno vs Roland cloud comparison. He does a very good comparison and proves not only does the Roland cloud not sound like the Juno 8 , neither does the system 8 plug out. In fact each one is different in ways that will make your head spin! He also shows various oscillometric representations so you can see the differences or similarities. The best thing to do rather than spend years and 10-20k on synths , but cheap airfare or drive to Fort Wayne Indiana , where you can go to the sweet water showroom and actually try every synth on the market .

[@StarskyCarr]

I don't know how you can class the Prophet 6 as virtual... it's VCO? analog filters, analog oscillators? analog distortion, full analog signal patch excluding FX. Here's my Juno 106 vs Cloud btw kzbin.info/www/bejne/i4qqlYmgiNdnqKs

[@soundfx68]

I think the System 8 is all the more impressive, considering the lifetime key $129 price via Roland Cloud Manager. I kinda prefer the Prophet sound in a few ways, but I'm happy with my single voice Toraiz AS-1 (I could multitrack). System 8 would be a lovely compliment.

[@jonjohnson3282]

A more interesting question to me is - what is the difference between a digital synth and a VST equivalent. Soundwise, should they be identical unless the DAC's in the synth provide a particular colour to the synth? With the Roland Cloud you can now have access to the System 8 VST. Does this/ should this sound any different to the physical System 8 synth? Nowadays I would only consider buying a physical synth because it represents an object of desire in it's entirety - the whole being better than just it's sonic part.

[@StarskyCarr]

Interesting point. There's basically no difference in sound quality, once you've taken the hardware through your interface you may even loose quality! The hardware is good for the hands on experience, especially if you're playing live. I for one decided to go fully ITB a few years ago, but missed the interaction with the synth - I found soft synths excellent at creating the sounds, but not as inspiring to use... turning multiple knobs, quickly accessing parameters, recording on the fly etc. All can be done with controllers obviously, but getting away from the screens is a big plus.

[@jonjohnson3282]

@@StarskyCarr Agreed. I'd contend my ImpOscar2 VST combined with a Touch Digital Controller , is the equivalent of a real Oscar - in fact it might be less prone to needing repairs. Sonically and physically the experience of use is the same. It's the availability of the Controller (with it's knobs etc.) that makes it so. In my humble opinion, access to quality Controllers, coupled with good software, will deliver the goods - often more economically spacially and financially. Development of new Controllers such as the MP Midi Controller could potentially vastly improve the user expereince and give access to a huge arsenal of "physical" virtual synths. That said I'd still give my right arm for a real OB-Xa or PPG Wave but more for their looks than anything else.

[@KordTaylor]

With the Juno 60 and 106 being SUCH a big deal these days I would love to see a video where you try to do Juno on Rev2 and similar prices instruments. Can you get close enough to the Roland sound which to me had that more trebly/hifreq sound.

[@StarskyCarr]

I did a super 6 vs Jupiter 6!- so a price bracket higher. The System 8 is exactly the same. Check out my Roland Cloud bs 106 (same thing) but admittedly digital.

[@KordTaylor]

@@StarskyCarr Thanks for answering. Yes, that's cool too. Specifically (here in the states at least) an old Juno is *the* hipster machine. 😂 True, ,the super6 is amazing for those of us in the "80's Roland club" (like me), but not as affordable as the REv2.

[@kierenmoore3236]

The Summit does amazing, warm, gooey, analog-ish synthwave pads and leads … I honestly don’t know why the Super 6 is so lauded … They are the same archetype … the Super 6 is just brighter (bright?); the Summit tends to be darker (warmer?) …

[@kierenmoore3236]

Rev2 does all sorts - but actually imitates analog Oberheims, very well!!

[@michelcury]

Roland is like a fine vsti... and the prophet warm and real synth! Pure and bright sounds 😍

[@kehindea]

Vintage gear is an investment in that in itself it has value. It’s like a diamond ring or gold. Digital synths are more utilitarian, they do the job but will never appreciate in value as software are basically identical. Just my observation and I could be wrong.

[@titovalasques]

Sorry, but instruments are ultimately meant to be played. Just like a piece of art is meant to convey an emotion or idea, not meant as an investment. I would argue that playing a well manufactured instrument (wether it be a Moog or a Stradivarius) is a joy in itself but if all you’re thinking about is how much return your “investment” is going to bring you’re just another synth collector snob.

[@kehindea]

@@titovalasques lol I’m not a synth collector as I don’t care about vintage gear like some people do. I’m all digital and software oriented.

[@revenantx1239]

System 8 reverb is bad in most cases except last modulation reverb (They all have some "cheap" "digital" ringing sound). Better compare them with some external reverb.

[@revenantx1239]

@ghost mall actually if you turn down hicut in reverb to 3000-4500hz it starts sounds less harsh

[@warlanefam]

The Halloween machine 😂🙏🏻

[@PedalScience]

Woah didn't know that about the P6 filter. Definitely no way around it?

[@MrCowfood]

Envelopes, or LFO. Mentioned in the vid

[@PedalScience]

@@MrCowfood yeah i meant besides those

[@sonicneutronic]

only when the filter is in self oscillation at the top end, not as a normal filter sweep (through the 1-75%). The effect is actually amazing when used right and the quantization helps you hit specific tones. Mix this with the Poly Mod, and you wont want it to work differently. I'm certainly more than happy with my P6.

[@eancurtis9333]

Awesome

[@Heatwave1988]

Im still waiting for quad-timbral, 16 voices, analog synth with 32slot matrix modulation. With P6 sound.

[@ropeburn6684]

That sounds incredibly expensive, especially the modulation part. Not quite there, but worth checking out is the Jomox Sunsyn - 8-voice 8-timbral with 4 mod slots per voice, fully analog except 2 of 4 oscillators per voice. Sadly it's discontinued and hard to find. jomox.de/product_details.php?lang=2&category=2&product_id=14

[@dvdny]

Just buy 4 DSI Tetr4’s.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

Digital: Software running on Hardware Analog: Actual current shaping the sound Everything has its purpose. At the end of the day the only factors that matter are how well was the software written and what makes sense to you, your workflow and last but not least, your budget. When i got myself a Roland Gaia i fell in love with this instrument because it had everything i needed. 3 oscillators, easy direct access to all values through sliders and knobs and also some built in effects and having everything saveable. And also coming with a keyboard i can actually play on (which i sadly cannot with just every key instrument). Best thing was i could actually afford it as it was a fraction of the costs of something coming from Sequential Circuits, Moog or others. Yes, there are limitations and yes it cannot quite hide its digital origin but it has everything i need. Should i really wanna go real analog, there's thankfully affordable competition in town now thanks to Behringer and Korg. Analog Synth wise we are currently living in fantastic times with so much to chose from in all price ranges, for all purposes and we don't even have to rely on overpriced vintage gear. Compare that to approx. 20 years ago. So i cannot really complain. If there's people who wanna spend a lot more on gear, let them. They probably have their reasons. Either it suits a need or they always wanted to have an instrument from such a company or they just can afford it a lot easier.

[@quezar]

Digital is NOT software running on hardware. Lot of people just don’t seam to get this. It’s actually just electricity running in the circuit but instead of continuous levels of electricity you have quantized a set of values in digital numbers. The sound of these synths are not based on cpus like your computer but instead on very complex circuitry that uses digital logic much much more complex then the old school analog technology.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

@@quezar There is still a huge amount of software involved as not everything is done entirely just with integrated circuits and PCBs. None of it would run or work without at least some amount of firmware and in some cases a core OS loading from a ROM.

[@mr_floydst]

Thank you for doing this. The sound difference is negligible, in my opinion. There are other factors at play here: 1) History. Synthesizers were a big part of our childhood and we have a strong nostalgia going on for analog stuff because it reminds us of (seemingly) good times - plus at that time, we didn't have the money to buy our dream gear, but now we have. :-) 2) Inspiration. The name "sequential" is legendary, and owning a legendary instrument will inspire you. Like Stradivari violins: It's not really the sound, but the history which inspires the players of those instruments and gives their performance that extra kick. and 3) market value: You can bet your bass that the Prophet 6 will keep it's market value for a very long time because of this. Not so sure about the Roland, though. ;-)

[@sndrcve]

I think there is space for both. Though when I’m in the mood for analog I don’t want to have to search through a load of digital patches to find the emulation. The beauty of an analog synth is that it can only ever sound like an analog synth. Yum.

[@StarskyCarr]

With this, you just hit one of the model buttons and you’re in ‘analog emulation mode’ so no searching through patches. It’s actually implemented really well.

[@sndrcve]

@@StarskyCarr Thanks. I'm glad somebody else at some point recognised that!

[@wolfpackpresets]

17:55 so true! Prophet 6 holds his power ... 👌

[@Fruitbat-tb3lg]

I think the selling point of the System 8 is the digital and fm Oscs mixed with the emulations. The System 8 has wood sides available. Don’t get me wrong, I love analog, as I was brought up on real analog synths. The prices you can get a system8 for make it a worth while purchase for certain sounds. Stick a cheap analog mono through the S8 and mix in its digital goodness for some real interesting possibilities. Now Roland should be hung up for not having aftertouch imho! Also, they should have given the option to change the light colours. Nice look at two interesting keyboard synths.

[@Supremeteamcaptain]

I own a System-8. I bought it as I was saving up for a Juno or a JX. I can confidently say that I never have to worry about buying the vintage boards. ACB is so successful because Roland‘a classics reborn in the S8 are pretty stable DCO based synths. It’s literally 1:1, especially with the condition setting applied. Everyone I know who owns an S8 as well as the vintage boards it emulates either put the old guys in storage or sold them. Period.

[@Fruitbat-tb3lg]

@@Supremeteamcaptain not surprised. I wouldn’t even contemplate the hassles of owning a classic board these days. Also, while I love the new Prophet 5 and 10, they are beyond my price range at this time. Besides, in a mix it really is pretty hard to tell the difference. I’m still considering the System 8 - Like the layout much more than the new Jupiter X. Still tempted by the Korg Prologue now that it has dropped in price, but the System 8 still has the edge in some areas. Going to contemplate for a while as I now only have the room for one main synth!

[@Supremeteamcaptain]

@@Fruitbat-tb3lg check out this comparison between the Jupiter PlugOut and the actual Jupiter. I heard this on so many speakers, couldn’t tell a difference, and on top of that the person doing this didn’t use the condition knob to give it even more analog feel. That’s why I tell people it’s not an emulation it practically IS the Jupiter. I love the native engine, but it’s almost overwhelming discussing all it packs, such as a full fledged Jupiter here kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWqqhYKumNaoa8U

[@EverettDudgeon138]

I think people just need to embrace the character of digital synths as a compliment to analog gear. I wouldn’t use the System 8 for its Jupiter or Juno emulations but I would absolutely use the FM oscillators to play alongside the Prophet 6.

[@mrbreaker101]

the Jupiter and Juno emulations are very good though As of the latest update you can make patches with a Juno filter, FM oscillator, etc. It adds further flexibility to the S8.

[@Supremeteamcaptain]

Lol what they did with the emulations is equivalent to when they smash particles in Switzerland. You cannot tell. Someone compared the raw waveforms with the JP under an oscilloscope on here. It’s 100% dead on.

[@hislittlecuzin]

After all my comments and searching.... I think I'm going to go for the System 8... I overlooked it because it was hecka ugly, and I thought it'd be really confusing with their reputation of Menu diving with all those knobs. After looking into what the knobs are for and realising there's really not that much menu diving (plus 1,2,3 patch changing) and the bonus that it has 3 synths in one (plus a 4th if I do) Should I not become weak and get that new snazzy looking black Minifreak. I really need to get a polyphonic advanced synth to compliment my monophonic Moog. I would prefer the Prophet 6, but hey, it's 2~ times the price. I just haven't found much of a reason to look at Roland because they don't give a vibe of what makes them unique. Moog has it. Behringer somehow has it. Sequential has it. Arturia has it. I don't know why Roland doesn't...

[@nickyates9820]

I have to hand it to the system 8, it does sound great for analog modeling! Roland has done a great job with that! However, even via youtube, I can hear the difference between the P6 and System 8 - The prophet 6 seems to have more presence to it, sounds much more like an actual instrument in the room with you instead of an emulation of one. I know this sounds purist, but I can just hear the difference. I tried the P6 and OB6 vs a Novation Summit recently, and I could tell a BIG difference in sound quality. The P6 and OB6 were much thicker in tone and much easier to hit sweet spots on as well. Ultimately, you should go after what inspires you the most, and if your ears are not as sensitive as mine are, and you can find inspiration in the system 8 and the likes, all power to you! I will just say that objectively there is a difference, but subjectively you can prefer whatever you like!

[@kierenmoore3236]

Everything you see is (just) an impression … Everything you hear is (just) an opinion …

[@Novaheart1998]

No denying the Prophet and Oberheim polys sound the best but the System 8 is cheaper and gives you amazing analog emulation and I feel it looks lovely and sounds extremely good. I prefer the System 8 in the end.

[@TheOneMonk]

The difference to me is very obvious. Is it worth 3x the price? Everybody needs to decide this for themselves. Can you produce professional music with the System 8? Of course. But: I would go for the Prophet in a heartbeat.

[@synriser6742]

I think the Prophet 6 sounds more alive. On some patches I can hear it more int the stereo field while the S8 sounds more flat.

[@blankspace0000]

I think having the ability to jam with a synthesizer is often undervalued. At first glance the Roland, being a fully DSP synth, doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that most plugin synths are far cheaper and more versatile. However, what plugins don't offer is the kind of tactile feedback and expression possibilities you get with a physical knob-per-function unit. The System 8 offers this experience while maintaining the depths of sound design that a digital system is capable of. I could easily see myself getting lost in it. The P6 not so much.

[@ed7132]

Probs have a look at a prophet first before saying something like that. They are incredibly logical and allow for fluid creation.

[@bikesbeersbeats]

With hardware you can turn it on and it just works today and decades later. When was the last time you updated MacOS without freaking out about whether your DAW/VST/Audio Interface would continue to work?

[@oblitafier]

@@bikesbeersbeats Analogue synthesisers still have microcontrollers (cpus) in them, and run software. Going right back to the seventies. It's unlikely System-8 will need any further updates once it's discontinued. There's also no reason to think it will be less reliable long term

[@bikesbeersbeats]

@@oblitafier completely agree, my comment was in reference to vst based synths. i love hardware specifically because the software on it never needs to be updated due to OS evolution.

[@alfiedotwtf]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought in your Rev 2 vs Prophet 6 video, you decided to keep the Rev2 and sell the Prophet 6... did you end up rebuying the Prophet 6 because of it's allure, or did you keep your original?

[@StarskyCarr]

Hi, I kept the P6 - but only really because I had a couple of issues with the Rev2. That's my excuse for not getting rid of it anyway ;)

[@alfiedotwtf]

@@StarskyCarr hehe no need to justify to me... these last few weeks and upcoming months are giving me a bit of gas... I think I need to see a doctor. No, no, not Doctor Mix - that will only make things worse

[@maccagrabme]

But weren't the issues you had with it fixed?

[@StarskyCarr]

@@maccagrabme No - DSI said they probably could've sorted it out remotely, but I didn't have time with my returns policy so didn't want to take the risk.

[@kierenmoore3236]

@@maccagrabme Yeah - the oscillators just needed recalibrating … Other than that, Starsky said (at the time) he would have preferred to keep the Rev2 … Shame - the Rev 2 is a monster; would be good to see/hear what Starsky would do with one, once he’d dug into it …

[@Bike_Misping]

Hahaha, halloween machine! I definitely dig the look of the system 8, but if that green was red/blue instead.. ooft.

[@StarskyCarr]

Red YES... but Blue .... Aaaarggh... bring back the green ;)

[@kierenmoore3236]

Red, White & Blue … That’s the ticket!

[@LeicaCat]

I think we are all fetishists that get turned on by seeing old analog gear with lots of switches and knobs. However, I find it humorous all the purists who talk about the "analog sound" but then process the synth's audio with a bunch of VSTs in their DAW or outboard gear. Don't even get me started on the trend of using "lo-fi" effects to inject faux dirty signal, hum, vinyl scratches & pops and tape wow & flutter into music. What's the purpose of that? Are there any audiophiles out there saying "Listen to how faithfully my $10,000 speakers reproduce the sound of dust on an old 33 rpm record"? 🙄

[@JadeEyeland]

I mean thats exactly what many subgenres of electronic music are for. See how hard you can flex the speakers and over compressed tape saturation on top of sine waves. Digital artifacts run through a tube preamp

[@Rockky67]

@@Jake-Balibari And we all wanted rock solid instant tuning stability, polyphony and the ability to save and recall presets quickly and would sell a mountain of now classic synths to get that without realising what we'd be losing in the process.

[@LeicaCat]

I'm old enough to remember when turntable manufacturers boasted about low Wow & Flutter specs and Quartz Locked Speed Control and receivers listed their specs regarding THD (total harmonic distortion).

[@JadeEyeland]

@@Rockky67 its interesting as a bass guitar player initially i feel like analog synths are best heard when played and jammed live. Cant seem to hear the difference with a nice virtual effects chain on a vst emulation

[@jazzjeffjazzjeff]

The first thing every VST, or hardware digi synth manufacturer does is try to show you how “analog “ their product sounds. This should tell you something. And it’s a universal fail!

[@happylittlesynth]

prophet seems more "crispy" ?

[@AURELIOPENNA]

I'm big fan of System 8 but, it will never, never find the attack of an analog synth. P6 has this raw (almost like some acoustic instrument) and present pluck sound at the first transient touch. That I can't get on the S8. Unfortunately.

[@Tussinette]

The question is: Prophet 6 or System 8 + Deepmind 12 + POLY D

[@bcroson82]

When is the P5 vs P6 video coming? I know you are the man for the job!

[@StarskyCarr]

P5 is on its way ;)

[@alfiedotwtf]

@@StarskyCarr you caved 🤣 Can't wait to see this one though!

[@SPAZZOID100]

Totally different synths.

[@gigngamer]

the snap is all what make the difference ahah

[@nachodiaz4837]

even without listening through my actual near fields i can notice the roland sounds; not like "SHIT" but much more metalic and cold versus the prophet's lushy sound and particularly the punchiness of it's oscilators.

[@mikelunz]

I'm actually surprised people don't spend more time talking about the casing and it's material. I know we can't compare it to a guitar (for example), as with guitar different materials vibrate differently (even different types of woods), giving guitar a different character. Albeit the synthesizer is amplified through a speaker, I still wonder if housing has any effect on the sounds we hear.

[@nachodiaz4837]

​@ghost mall awesome that you got both of them anyways! It's weird how big companies release reissues which don't really nail the sound they advertise to.

[@donvittoriosierra]

I have a soft spot for the Roland sound. For some reason, I never drooled over sequential stuff. Kinda weird. I do love Moogs

[@blankspace0000]

I feel the same

[@RaniOsnat]

I have a System-8, a Sequential Prophet 08, and a couple of Moogs. I love them all. The Roland “sound” is cleaner and easier to use in a mix. Moog is raunchy and distinct, and Sequential/DSI I would characterize as warm and airy. From a sound design/programming perspective they’re also different. Roland has amazing oscillators, multi mode filters, but the modulation is relatively basic. The American synths have a more elaborate modulation matrix, and sophisticated envelopes and triggering options that make them more “playable”. Like I said, love them all...

[@kaitsu9608]

Prophets and dsi synths do have great modulation matrix that is very easy to assign, thats a huge perk in those

[@donvittoriosierra]

@@kaitsu9608 I'm a noob as a synth musician. Where I'm coming from is just from basing on sounds I heard on youtube. The Rolands just give me the jean michelle jarre nostalgia mixed with familiar synthpop from the 80s sound vs the prophets which I am less sonically familiar with. That Roland sound will never fade from my heart based on childhood memories is all I'm saying.

[@antonystannard3333]

I know it shouldn't matter, but adding the aluminium end panels to s8 makes it much more aesthetically pleasing.

[@StarskyCarr]

I'm tempted :)

[@SPAZZOID100]

I added the wood panels.

[@Steve_643]

There’s nothing wrong with good digital synths!!!! For me the ability to tweak knobs is usually on analog synths but the System 8 has that covered

[@garyturner5204]

EXACTLY! The knobs give you that tactile analog feel. I love my System-8 and my Prophet 12.