Analog vs. Digital Zettelkasten with Sascha Fast (From Zettelkasten.de)

Please do the following to support me so that I can continue making these videos:
1️⃣ 🗃 Get my Free 5-Day Zettelkasten Email Course: www.scottschep...
2️⃣ 📜 Subscribe to a Free 30-day trial of my physical monthly newsletter, The Scott Scheper Letter: www.scottschep...
3️⃣ 📚 Get my 594-page Antinet Zettelkasten book for Free (just pay the cost of shipping & materials): www.scottschep...
The Scott Scheper Letter is the work of art I'm most proud of. It's my labor of love--the thing I invest my heart and soul into every month. It's jam-packed with knowledge that will help you become an independent writer, creator, and thinker.
Please try out The Scott Scheper Letter! Trust me, you won't regret it.
Here's the link to the free 30-day trial: www.scottschep...

[@paulnguyen1521]

Awesome conversation. I took me one week to watch it all, but it was worth it! Nice to see the different approaches and their arguments in contrast to each other.

[@krishofstadter]

Hi Scott and Sacha, this was very interesting. I have learnt a lot about Zettlekasten. It was really good to listen to people who have a deep understanding of the method. I look forward to your next conversation. Thanks! k P.s: the opposite of Neurolink might be no writing at all, so therefore a bit like the Mind/Memory Palace - but with boxes instead of rooms :)

[@rwrobinson88]

I listened to all of it. Good job on the dog front. Sounds like quite the adventure. I’d love to hear y’all talk through some more things in the future. Maybe even invite others and take questions. ;) Talk show style.

[@aa5new]

The main advantage of a digital Cettelkasten is, that there is no need to use a luhmann id or put the nodes into an 1d array. In the obsidian ecosystem, the nodes are organized in a high dimensional linked map which allows to capture the knowledge much better.

[@studyinginthedesert7690]

The Luhmann id is pretty useful as a tree of frozen associations that can be used to recall an entire batch of cards and their interrelations with less effort. It's not necessary, but it bears a lot of the memorization/internalization load for one's own vault.

[@AlmaNaylor]

I actually just went back and added Luhmann ID prefixes to my Obsidian notes for this very reason. I wanted to be able to look quickly at "groups" of thoughts. Date/Time stamps were just too long and laborious to work well for me in the same way. Prior to adding these, I read for hours on the forums and I know there is a lot of debate about this, but so far, I love it.

[@KeithDvorak]

i agree with both commenters: IDs don’t just identify, they’re semantic. there is value in clustering ideas that occur on a given day (i use an yyyymmddhhmmss ID) or luhmann’s tree structure. this can help track the provenance of your thoughts, which in itself can be insightful and productive-almost a feedback loop.

[@sn0n]

39:20 Peruse means thorough or carefully, not quickly glanced at bullet points, etc..

[@rwrobinson88]

I will point out that the level of processing seems to be different between the two of you. Based upon the examples I’ve seen in Scott’s past videos, and some of the examples and feedback from Sascha in the forum, I think there is a difference in how you two approach that. Scott seems to be more comfortable with less formality. Or somewhat denies the idea of atomic notes since Luhmann didn’t seem to adhere to this exactly. That is, Luhmann seemed to write numerous cards in a row and they weren’t tightly packaged as a unit (they are somewhat sloppy). And example of this for Scott is one time where he shows just numerous examples of ways of grouping areas of life from different readings. Anyways, I know this wasn’t super focused on differences. But that stood out to my as I listened through the conversation.

[@patreid005]

what do you think is the minimum amount of associations needed of a note for recall or solidified understanding? or does it depend also on the meaningful or emotional response of the the association? fascinating discussion.

[@suheylkarakaya4238]

Good job! It was more like why analog is better :D

[@SaschKrassBass]

Correction "THE top ressource"... :*

[@utheolstephaniewilliams9143]

For the digital why not set up visual cards, have boxes and flip through like a real card catalouge? There was a game in the 90's that sort of had the same idea. Show the title and first line of the previous 15 BELOW and the later 5 ABOVE when searching via the index? Kind of like in the shuffle state of the Galaxy Tarot program.

[@SaschKrassBass]

You'd lose the benefits of digital while not adding the analog benefits to an extent that would be anywhere near to going full analog. If you are such a haptic person I'd go full analog.

[@utheolstephaniewilliams9143]

@@SaschKrassBass Mine is full analog. Theoretically, expanding the visual simulation in a digital format to include the surrounding cards, could simulate the unexpected and synchronictic conversation that is lost via a search function. Example: you are looking for the lyricist who wrote "banana pancakes" card 1389/4/c/2 has the lyrics. 1389/4/a : Curious George: childrens literature. 1389/4/a/1 : animalization : literary context of animal protagonists in children's literature 1389/4/b : "How WW2 almost killed Curious George." 1389/4/c/1 : Curious George books vs film adaptations 1389/4/c/1 : "Upsidedown" by Jack Johnson - lyrics, Curious George. 1389/4/c/1/1 : "Upsidedown" by Jack Johnson -perspective from the NICU 1389/4/c/1/2 : Parenting: Man in the yellow hat style 1389/4/c/2 : Banana Pancakes - lyrics and history 1389/5 : Mrs. PIGGLE WIGGLE. 1389/5/1 : old lady, fairy, witch, pirate, or selkie? Does that make sense? 🤔

[@SaschKrassBass]

​@@utheolstephaniewilliams9143 It makes sense if you buy into the premise that the seach function leads to a loss of the conversational dynamic. I am using my Zettelkasten for over a decade and can assure you that there is no loss of suche a dynamic and no need to simulate anything to restore it. :)

[@benpessoa4013]

thanks for the book recc on Too Much To Know

[@scottscheper]

It's a good book to read before bed

[@rwrobinson88]

Anders Ericsson 😅 Peak is an outstanding book.

[@SaschKrassBass]

Ah, thanks. I wish I could say that I'll get that right in the future. But I have the same disease anybody has who reads way more than he talks: Idiosyncratic encoding.

[@pk-mind]

good to see you have hair :-)

[@spinixray8759]

2:00:00

[@spinixray8759]

28:00

[@spinixray8759]

33:00

[@spinixray8759]

38:00

[@spinixray8759]

1:30:00

[@spinixray8759]

1:37:00

[@spinixray8759]

1:57:00

[@Kapoorsunnykapoor]

FYI: India does not have slaves .

[@shirishhirekodi6913]

32:11 India is cited as a country having as many slaves as the population of Texas. From where did this guy get these numbers? Before citing "random facts" that defames some other country, one needs to look at proven issues like George Floyd within one's own country. And for what is this "fact" needed? As useful citations to discuss how ZK works? Wow defame a country to help explain how ZK works? This guy does not remember that some country's contributions to math or that India got to Mars at first attempt. This somehow strikes me as poverty-porn. Is this ignorance or insensitivity? Extremely unhelpful

[@scottscheper]

It was a spur of the moment share. I recall there being over 25 million slaves in the world today where India is the largest (see link, it's actually more now: 40 million). And I also recall Texas' population at 25 million (it's 28 million today). reliefweb.int/report/world/which-countries-have-highest-rates-modern-slavery-and-most-victims I stumbled upon such a fact in 2014 and since I wrote it on notecards I still remember it today. That was the point I was trying to make. Wasn't making any nationalistic morality claims. Both the US and India have things they shouldn't be proud of.

[@SaschKrassBass]

A state cannot be defamed. But we people (you and I included) are *free to make the choice* to continue the Duḥkha that is the eternal companion of conflating places, states and people. I personally like Kṣamā more which seems to be made available by identifying with no state. What do you think? God bless you.

[@shirishhirekodi6913]

@@scottscheper thanks for your gracious comment. It’s not the data or fact which is the problem. Even a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth. People freely using some country’s name synonymously with all ills of society is unbecoming. But I do see your point of the stochasticity of your selection which is again subconsciously influenced by all manner of truths and lies pervading in your environment

[@shirishhirekodi6913]

@@SaschKrassBass ah yes the Kshama bit. I’d forgotten about that. And that too a word which originated right in my country. Will write to Scott and apologise for the disproportionate disturbance

[@SaschKrassBass]

@@shirishhirekodi6913 I wish the wisdom of your culture would be considered canon in education as are the western philosophers canon (or as the educational system pretends that they are). :)