ANALYSIS : Cinder vs Rhodes / Ironwood vs JNPR

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Let's take a moment to really dive into 2 of the worst fight from Volume 8. These fights were obviously disappointing, but WHY? Was it the writing? Directing? Cinematography? choreography? Well, let's take a closer look to truly analyze what happened with these fights!

[@mikevarrecchia4264]

Emerald was using her semblance the whole time. There was actually a super well choreographed fight going on, but Emerald was using her semblance on us, the audience, to make us think the fight looked bad.

[@snakeslife-uroborodjinn790]

There was a really good show but Emerald used her semblance to show us garbage for 5 volumes straight. What a villain!

[@TitanXecutor]

Emerald was the true villain all along

[@soniasun2692]

I knew we couldn’t trust Emerald…

[@JasondaUltima]

"Ren Kick" **squeaky toy sound** "IRONWOOD KICK!" **God Damn Explosion!** Lmao Perfect!

[@MasquedJustice]

@@fisheywashington1879 dont you mean daddy jesus?

[@kennethfajardo9102]

Dude, please no...

[@darklord2098]

This has been bothering me for a while, but why not give Ironwood Rhode's semblance. I get that he already has robot parts, but why not give him the ability to turn his skin into metal, symbolizing him hardening his heart and having an unbreakable will. But instead, we got Mettle :(

[@UnifiedEntity]

Ah shit...... You're right

[@ponygonporygon2153]

And it would get rid of the plot contrivance for Mettle being his hyper focus causes him to make rash decisions and be stubborn. If they really wanted to villain bat Ironwood (which they shouldn't have) they didn't need a semblance from a separate podcast to explain way this sudden change in character.

[@thelegendaryascendingdrago4428]

Yeah, Mettle doesn't hold together well, but Rhodes's Semblance is pretty solid.

[@jonnjones8263]

That would have required them to actually animate shit in the main story. So of course they made up some non-visual shit on the fly.

[@TheBlazefire21]

@@thelegendaryascendingdrago4428 hah. I see what you did there

[@aweriana4692]

Cinder clearly doesn't play DnD otherwise she would know she can't do that much in just 1 turn.

[@AidanKerr]

Too bad Rhodes never took the Sentinel feat, he could’ve beaten Cinder easily

[@kanekikingstorm2113]

Should have gone for Master-Two Weapon Fighting

[@MasquedJustice]

@@AidanKerr Unfortunately, he had to take the Dual Wielder feat since his maces weren't light weapons

[@justsomechapinatophat5517]

As an Ironwood fan since volume 2. His fight against the Alpha Grimm was LEAGUES above this fight.

[@itsblitz4437]

The fights have been a hit and a miss and a mixed bag.

[@Hashbrown1682]

Same in v3 he was a swaggering cowboy shooter, now.................. Now not so much

[@VictorTorres-rg9lp]

I still feel like ironwood would have had some backup. Maybe have soldiers standing by him and a sniper hidden somewhere keeping a eye on things. I mean come on ironwood was already confirmed to be extremely paranoid at that point. So It would make sense. But then again doing that would cost money and time.

[@AriesZero]

But what about the Watts fight??

[@justsomechapinatophat5517]

@@AriesZero Ironwood vs Watts is not even LEAGUES more like MOUNTAINS above this fight!

[@Lord_Moldybutt]

One thing to add is during that POV shot of Rhodes fighting Cinder, he uses his maces to jab, rather than just swinging. One could argue his goal isn't to actually hurt her, but still that bit reminded me of volume 5 where Jaune tries to use his chunky broadsword as a rapier (and trips forward because duh).

[@supersparrowJ]

It’s never a good thing when something in this show reminds you of anything in Volume 5…

[@chrisriley2321]

Adding on to that he probably only wanted to knock her out so she could be talked down from her rage...and probably to arrest her for three counts of murder in the first degree

[@geltric4779]

I swear every time a rwby critic pulls out a full diagram detailing weird character positions in the middle of a fight, I lose my shit. It's so bad, that you need pictures to explain how jank it is.

[@coulsonintahiti]

insert MCU battle joke here, where people wait for their scripted moment as Thanos prepares to break the universe down to its last atom

[@anderkid1090]

@@coulsonintahiti at least the MCU has the rule of cool going for it; RWBY has pretty much nothing.

[@coulsonintahiti]

@@anderkid1090 all the mainstream MCU has going for it is a history of comics and occasionally a good actor Disney keeps around for a few years.

[@YourLadyStar]

Wait, I just noticed this. So, throughout all of v8, Ironwood's left sleeve is rolled up to show off his new black metallic arm (you get, cause he's evil now, oooh). But when Emerald backflip kicks his gun out of his hands, his sleeve is rolled down and he's wearing his glove. They used his v7 model in the latter half of v8! How do you mess that up?! Man, you were right about the animation errors becoming more noticeable in the second half.

[@gokbay3057]

OH MY GOD

[@TitanXecutor]

Just goes to show how much they care

[@hownot2junk803]

I think the "bag of sand" Cinder throws in the first fight is supposed to be a bag of flour. It would make more sense than having sand lying around a storage room, but it's still a bit strange admittedly.

[@notisaiah]

Part of me thinks the bag actually had dried cement rather than flour

[@hownot2junk803]

@@notisaiah that's a possibility.

[@DocMicrowave]

I thought it was flour when i first saw it. The way it dispersed look more like flour than sand.

[@gokbay3057]

I mean, flour definitely makes more sense than sand.

[@BunW.Bun21774]

Question though. Not saying you’re wrong, but I feel like the bag should’ve had some form of weight to it in the animation used when it’s thrown or at the very least have cinder grunt when she throws it because flour in a bag is by no means light as a feather.

[@JesseGolo]

28:42 They could have had Ironwood raise his arm to block Nora's hit, but Ren tie it with his own weapon and force it down. Ren is like the perfect interference to Ironwood's straight punch attack.

[@Gunn3rGuru]

On one hand, James did get ganked by five people. On the other hand, they really should've made it easier for Ironwood to unlatch/unhook/unholster/whatever his guns from that bfg he carried. That and he should've been doing tekken combos. Also, now that you mention it, I've seen enough standing moonsaults in wrestling to believe in a standing 180, if not just a 135.

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

Emerald vs Sasha Banks would be one awesome fight!

[@pykuhl6860]

If Ironwood did a ten hit combo on jaune that would have made the entire finale worth it.

[@johannesseyfried7933]

@@pykuhl6860 I would have already been satisfied if he at least *tried* to shoot Salem. Or maybe just shoot Cinder. His Gun is pretty powerful, I would totally believe that it could penetrate Cinder's Aura, especially after she was in a Fight with both Penny and Winter. That Way, we would accomplish three Things: Ironwood would get to do one, last awesome Thing before he died. He would set Salem's Plans back by a lot, forcing her to search for the new Fall Maiden. And, the most important Part: He would finally free us from the boring Villain that is Cinder Falls.

[@jawwer12]

@@pykuhl6860 he does a bunch of hellsweeps because his robotic hips can manage a full 360.

[@pykuhl6860]

@@jawwer12 it's extra tragic bc you know for a fact Jaune can't low parry

[@OneTaker]

Feel like the Ironwood fight suffered from RWBY's real biggest enemies...the budget and the Deadline. Like you said if they just showed emerald using her semblance to throw Ironwood off abit, like that Nora charging in the sky the teleported to right next to him was an illusion and Nora was charging closer to him that caught him off guard. Just little things like that or show a illusion fading from where Ironwood's fist was to show that they are disorienting him just enough to miss. Just ...a little bit more effort please ( still not bitterXD ).

[@Alik_Odess]

Two of it's biggest enemies.

[@blazingguns7701]

Uh. and covid splitting them apart and making it far harder. that's why i forgive a lot of this season. The animation team especially have mentioned how hard it was to work remotely.

[@beary6584]

Nora was done so bad in this volume. She spent 7 out of the 14 chapters in bed, and when she finally got up, all she did was 1 hit and that was it. That one hit was all of Nora's combat for the entire volume. Also, why does Nora get a song this volume? Why not Ruby? I'd love a Ruby song that isn't just about Summer.

[@Henry-hm7kc]

I really wish Ironwood’s final “punch” against Oscar showed him hesitate or show a quick little look of regret since he knows Oscar has his friend Ozpin in his head. It would show that Ironwood knows what he’s risking by attacking Oscar, losing his friend again (probably forever if Oscar dies now). Then again now that I’m typing this he did shoot Oscar beforehand so… I don’t know… it would’ve been interesting to see a little remorse.

[@coulsonintahiti]

i mean, he's Ozpin. Ironwood knew he would survive somehow when he got shot, but shooting is different from hand-to-hand, where you're seeing your opponent's eyes as close as a mirror. Also, he's entering the regret stage. He did something he probably shouldn't have, and even though it was for the right reasons, he's beginning to realize it wasn't the answer (though i didn't see Team RWBY coming up with any kind of better plan). And to think this could have all been averted if Team RWBY could have troubled themselves to tell the truth in Volume 7. "Don't lie to him, RWBY, we're better than that."

[@carbodude5414]

Yeah, show that there's humanity in Ironwood and he hesitates to hit Oscar, a kid that Ironwood bonded with more than anyone else in RWBY's team Make it so that Ironwood actually could have defeated them 1-on-5 but lost because he couldn't bring himself to hurt Oscar again

[@Kazeryuun]

My favorite thing about Winter’s electric glyph is that she’s imitating Weiss’ technique, which is impossible cuz Weiss’ rapier is built to store and use dust and Winter’s can’t lmao I just realized that Winter started using other elements like the ice shard and gravity glyph in this fight as well. And I don’t wanna nitpick just cuz she doesn’t have dust in her weapon, but literally the whole point of Weiss’ weapon having dust chambers is to use them for her glyphs, so why doesn’t Winter have them as well. She has never shown evidence in the series beforehand that she has used elemental glyphs before so I’m just perplexed.

[@saikq5380]

winter does have them i’m pretty sure

[@andrewrogers3067]

I think dust is in her weapons judging by Volume 3

[@Ethan-nl2wg]

Yeah I thought Winters thing was that she focused on mastering all of her natural Glyph abilities (for example her summoning is way faster than Weiss’s) it could have been cool if she used time dilation on Nora instead of electric dust

[@williamharmon4039]

@@andrewrogers3067 Really? Because back in Volume 3 it looked a lot like it was just a simple saber with a second sword inside the hollow part. There weren't really any glowing parts or little compartments that could have been containing Dust, and in her Volume 3 fight against Qrow she never used any Dust.

[@andrewrogers3067]

@@williamharmon4039 Yeah you actually brought up a good point, I went back to rewatch the fight and turns out there isn’t any dust in it. So I went to the RWBY Wiki to see if they had something. Turns out it wasn’t confirmed in the show but on the volume 3 DVD commentary that each blade has one type of dust in it…. I should just say “NOT CANON” since that isn’t in the show but you know how that isz

[@artistic_hisui]

I’ve been watching Naruto recently. And with a big group like the JNPR + ironwood fight…. Like what Kakashi said “TEAMWORK!!” RT needs to learn that a big group like 3 or more. The group needs to learn fucking teamwork. They get thrown into combat without any realization about how to fight an opponent. What happened to team attacks. Oh.. wait. That results shipping bullshit!! Because oooh let’s have team attacks be a shipping name!! RT needs to fucking step up their game. Fights needs a lot of damn work….

[@Step43099]

Its funny you bring up Naruto because Critter was bringing up interesting fight locations and my mind immediately shot to the Valley of the End among others. It's baffling that they still cannot figure out how to do team fights that don't look dumb, like I'm almost certain they've watched Soul Eater

[@wolfblaze6227]

On the ironwood fight: I’ve been playing genshin impact a lot, where you can play with different weapons, abilities, and elements, similar to rwby. These teams, especially JNR, should be working perfectly together. On a tangent- I play co-op with my datemate. We are close, and we understand each other’s personalities and fighting styles to a T. They prefer to use decoys and dish out damage from afar. I like to get up close and personal. While deploying those decoys, it’s my job to shield them so they can get in and out of a fight without taking too much damage. Once they’re out, they use their abilities to gather opponents in one spot, which is my cue to run over and use my big-damage-aoe. We figured all of this out through experience, not discussion. My point being- team Rwby and team Jnr should be functioning as well if not better. They should have that understanding of one another. Especially the Ruby-Yang and Ren-Nora pairs since they’ve known each other so long

[@andrewrogers3067]

Not a genshin player, but when you’ve fought with a friend long enough you know exactly how they fight and how to help.

[@houseplant3542]

'AOE-DAMAGE'~Dainsleif

[@wolfblaze6227]

@@andrewrogers3067 my point exactly

[@twarnold14]

On the Ironwood fight: imagine Winter using her glyphs to support JNR but still not able to get a good hit in. Then a camera cut and we see them attacking one at a time in a wide shot, but their techniques are switched up. Ren is barely attacking and just dodging to tire out, Jaune isn’t using his shield, and Nora is barely swinging her hammer. We see the look of confusion of Ironwood’s face as they are now getting some hits in. But he lands a decisive blow and he calls out that he knows this Oscar. Emerald drops the illusion she put up in the camera cut to reveal Oscar was going to toe-to-toe with Ironwood while disguised. They fight a little bit more, Oscar does his cane multi attack, but then he gets punched back. Maybe it’s in the spot he was shot. But JNR and Winter have been getting into position. Suddenly, Ren ties up Ironwood’s leg, Nora smacks him around so he curves about in an arc (Winter can have a glyph on Ren so he so fixed in the middle), Jaune bounces Ironwood back in the opposite direction with his gravity burst, and that’s when Winter does her finisher. Oscar gets a bigger role in the fight, Emerald’s illusions are necessary, there is greater teamwork, and Winter’s betrayal is still the finishing blow.

[@josephbriggs2257]

Sounds like a good way to do the fight.

[@coolnerdstuff]

I think the bag of sand in the Cinder vs Rhodes fight was supposed to be flour? In which case, it's even more disappointing that Cinder doesn't ignite the flour-filled air around Rhodes using her semblance!

[@selena44842]

100% agree. Another issue I have with these fights is just how floaty everything is. I know this a criticism that's been said before but I think it bears repeating. The moment where this really stood out to me was when Nora was getting her attack ready. At first I thought Winter was using her glyphs to keep Nora in the air while she readied her attack, but then I remembered its the dark glyphs that stick things in place, so I guess Nora is just floating in the air until it's her time to attack. It's small moment but it completely pulled me out of the fight, and that's the main issue I have with these fights. Nothing has weight to it anymore. Characters can just flail their weapons around with so much ease they might as well be made of cardboard, attacks don't leave an impact (like seriously, Ironwood takes a metal hammer to the face and it doesn't even stagger or temporarily daze him) and everyone can jump super high and move so fast gravity might as well not exist (and makes super speed characters feel less unique). Also this doesn't really have anything to do with the the fight but it bothers me how everyone can basically fly now, like the fact that Nora can just fly on her hammer like a magic broom stick instead using its weight and the recoil of her rocket launchers to get around really annoys me, like the first time I saw her flying around on it in volume 7 broke my brain

[@antondevonlh]

I really have nothing to add or detract from the Rhodes v Cinder fight, I think you nailed it spot on, but I wanted to come in and offer up a defense of some of the choices of the Ironwood fight, and how I think it might have been improved with some very minor changes. Firstly, the good. Ironwood's cannon looks like absolute garbage, but it makes complete sense (to me) that he would upgrade his weapon for his opponent. Remember, in the set-up of the scene, he expects to be bringing in Penny. His handguns are good, but she is the apex of Atlas Military tech, she can take a few shots, get up close, and disarm him. We see later when Ironwood absolutely vaporizes Jacques that it is a powerhouse weapon, so having a tank-buster on hand to put an end to a Rogue Penny if she tries something is exactly the sort of extra move Ironwood would go for in this moment (though, this is not a condonement of the absolute assassination of his character up to this point, just pointing out that this thing is absolutely in that new, dumber character). So, my first change would be to make it look a little more fancy, a little less brick. Second, the good; terrain. While a fight on a flat plain is boring from a technical aspect, it does fit with Ironwood's character. Tactically, fighting Penny with his big-ass cannon in the middle of an open field where he can retreat into the building is a smart play, if he was actually fighting who he hoped to fight. More importantly, it lets him see a wide range so that if RWBY or JNPR show up to help her, he's got plenty of line of sight chances to turn them to smoldering craters. If anything, my biggest complaint is that he isn't on top of the stairs when Penny arrives, because it leaves his back exposed to any kind of sniping. Third, the good; disarming Ironwood. Ironwood *SHOULD NOT* lose a fair fight with his guns, full stop. Disarming Ironwood gives the gang a *chance* to beat him, and it needs to be clear Ironwood is on the back foot. If anything, the fight should be even shorter then it was, because the longer it drags on the more chance Ironwood has to adapt to the situation and retreat or reverse the situation. Emerald leaving the fight with the gun is the right idea. Now, to the bad, and the fix. First, the classic "wait your turn" RWBY fighting style. Ironwood needs to get shitkicked like a punk behind a 7-11, not squared up to in a fair fight. Wren and Oscar fighting shoulder to shoulder, landing quick blows on whatever side Ironwood isn't blocking at the moment. When Ironwood tries to land his first Counter-blow, Jaune slides in and intercepts the blow, causing a surprise Ironwood to stagger back. This brings us to the bad part 2, unarmed Ironwood. This man is *the* general of the Atlas Military, and he's more machine now, then man. Even his "light" punches should be like baseball bat swings. The shieldblock should stagger Ironwood, but it should launch Jaune out of the fight. Now Oscar and Wren get a second round of blows in, and Ironwood and Wren trade kicks (the hilarious light kick followed by a full Chuck Norris Roundhouse that breaks Wren's aura, just to show how dangerous Ironwood is. He should look a bit rough, but not down for the count). He and Oscar square off for just long enough that each sees the betrayal and regret in each-other's faces, and in the background we should see a bolt of lighting fly past the screen. Ironwood looks to where it came from, and sees Winter. He assumes that she just covered his ass, because he doesn't know she's betrayed him, but then her eyes swing on to him and he sees the resolve there. As a black Glyph forms behind her, the camera comes back to Ironwood, as the Betrayal at Oscar become horror at the sight of Winter, but before any rage can seep in Nora's hammer fills the back of the frame, and Ironwood is launched past the camera, tumbling once, twice, rolling, flipping, landing on his feet facing Nora and Oscar, who square up. He readies his fists, and Winter is there with her flashing knock-out blow. Ironwood's aura shatters, and he collapses to the ground. Now the fight is more dynamic without needing terrain, it's snappy, it is uninterrupted, and everyone sighing in relief is the prefect transition to the Qrow/Robin "fight" that ends just as quickly. Now it's all coming together for our heroes. This version does require to things, though. 1) Ironwood ditches the cannon against Winter. He knows she's too fast for it to be effective against, and the terrain is awful for it, so he goes back to his handguns (or maybe he starts the battle with a cannon blast and then ditches it for his handguns once the battle starts proper). 2) Someone needs to be backing Winter up. My personal pick is Oscar, so they can battle in the place Ironwood betrayed him. He can get knocked out of the fight for long enough to have that long moment of "we were each betrayed" between Winter and Ironwood, and having him come back in after Winter Maiden Winter is maybe *just* not quite enough to finish the fight (cause that would be interesting; Ironwood actually standing toe to toe with Winter as a Maiden, right before getting Vetgeta'd in the back by Oscar and letting Winter land the final blow). It wouldn't REALLY impact anything Oscar did after that point, and Oz can give him just enough speed as the floor is collapsing to beat Jaune through the portal, if we don't also decide to drop him into Destiny Island). Anyway, that's my thoughts on why the fight is actually almost good, and only a few steps away from being great. Love the videos, keep up the great content ^.^ Always looking forward to more!

[@Ethan-nl2wg]

It’s probably due to budget restraints that this fight was so short but it would have been awesome to switch locations to inside the building

[@AdventureHusky]

Another thing to help with the ugly and abrupt transitions in the original fight is cutting between blows. Like when Jaune swings his sword, Qrow's Sycthe should follow the same arc, the swing blocking the camera before finishing it with a reveal of him and Robin squaring up against the robots. But I do like finishing the Ironwood fight first before moving on. I hate when shows cut between different fights taking place never finishing one characters fight until its all mashed together in the end, its annoying, it makes me hate the other characters fights not because they're bad, but because I want to see what happened to character A, not character B.

[@aaronwilbers3049]

Not sure if the ending works as you intend it to since I believe it is implied here that Winter taps into Ozpin's cane to perform the final attack. Otherwise I agree.

[@antondevonlh]

@@aaronwilbers3049 That makes sense for the original version, certainly, but the idea behind seeing the glyph show up behind her before the camera cut is to imply she uses the black glyph to charge up her attack, and her backstabbing blow (in this case, literally from the back), with the overcharge is what does it. Gives her more agency, lets that attack happen later, and doesn't need a weird power/semblence/physics/magic ven diagram to explain how she does it XD

[@carbodude5414]

That new gun is barely an upgrade and only slowed him down

[@astereotypicalgamer1708]

So many Volume 5 flashbacks at the end of the volume. Forgetting where characters are, people standing around doing nothing, long reaction shots instead of logical movements from presumably well-trained combat veterans... this series CAN do solid fight scenes with more than a handful of characters, but they exclusively happen earlier in their respective volumes (Torchwick in the mech vs Team RWBY in V2, Tyrian vs RNJR in V4). Maybe what they need to do is plan out their big battle scenes earlier on when time and budget is less of an issue and save the 1v1s for their climactic finales.

[@skysiren4143]

One thing I really miss about the old fights that you mentioned in your SLVR review was when they used slow motion, it was to show that specific attack was a powerful one. Take Yang in the yellow trailer, when she used normal attacks that don't do a crazy amount of damage the shot normally, but when she does a really powerful one (case in point when she does her glamor shot punching the ground, creating a shockwave, or when she deals the final blow on junior) that's when they use the slow motion. It's not just to look cool, but it also shows how powerful those certain blows were. As the series goes on its mostly use as a glamor shot, but thats not a bad thing (like I really like the shot of Yang throwing Vine down in the ace ops fight) but I really miss when it was also used to basically say "oh shit, that was a powerful one" Edit: I wanna make it clear that I'm not trying to antagonize the animators, they alway do a good job and I have nothing but respect for them, knowing what little time they have to animate the show

[@liben5052]

i watched dillion goo and shane's animations and they definitely use slow motion and anticipation in their action sequences, it's unfortunate that rwby animators are probably under time crunch and don't have a lot of direction in terms of animating fight scenes (the writers probably aren't used to detailing how fights go. i feel like the ironwood vs watts fight was one of the few times they actually let their animators storyboard their ideas out before jumping into animation considering other fights are animated out of sequence and without knowing what is going on in the setting) ...hell, apparently qrow and clover being somewhat "flirty" was credited to an animator who made those scenes because she shipped them, and yet kerry and miles had no idea because they're just that out of touch with their animators. that's not a good sign for a director....

[@SwitchbackCh]

Slow-mo was also used well when showcasing specific or new information. A good example was when Sun first used his gun-chucks vs. Roman, the slow-mo shots were shown of him firing and reloading it, so we could process what was happening, building up to the awesome sequence of Sun rapid-firing it.

[@carbodude5414]

@@liben5052 God, Shane's animations are so cathartic to watch Him and Cake Station are the only animators I've seen that can perfectly recreate Monty's style

[@dylankelly3563]

For Ironwood looking straight at Nora; to be fair, sensing oncoming attacks is canonically a thing aura can be used for, so he might literally have known she was there before looking

[@Step43099]

Somehow i doubt they remember that

[@Cinnayanny]

I get why everyone points out that Cinder's bag of sand is probably actually a bag of flour, but I'm extra glad that everyone recognises the bag could literally be anything. It's a bag of "obscure-your-vision stuff" nobody cares if it's sand or dirt or even baby powder. They'll use it the same way anyways. It's boring.

[@pentamenta9183]

I was very disappointed with this fight. I spend the volume wondering how they would beat ironwood and the reveal with emerald made for a great start. But after that the whole episode just dives into the dumpster. Loved the video though, please keep them coming.

[@reptarozone]

"Never introduce an ability in the middle of combat." Hirohiko Araki: *sweats nervously*

[@silverdragonoid]

27:15 I laughed way harder than I probably should have, even after several rewatches. Actually, I can't stop rewinding. I need that as a clip. And the blooper was beautiful

[@bdown08]

The Price is Right theme is always gold

[@tacohashi924]

With how much impact Ironwood's gun did on the Grimm back in Volume 3, he could've shot the ground and used the broken tiles and rocks to his advantage. His individual guns can be used in close range too, he did try to defend himself by holding his gun by the barrel when Qrow seemed like he was about to lash out at him in Volume 3. He could've also used their weapons as an advantage. Using Jaune's shield as a jump pad, pulling Ren when he fires his grappling hook (which happened a lot before), and grabbing Oscar's cane and swinging him around. The man has wrestled with an Alpha, he should've went toe to toe against Nora and definitely overpower her too. Ironwood also taught Winter what she knew, so he should've known her fighting style since she's been by his side for a long time.

[@frogradar]

No but for real, Ironwood was given that big clunky stupid fucking gun for NO reason other than to remove him from fights. Winter vs Ironwood would be 100% in Ironwoods favour if he dual glocked her the entire fight. He lost BOTH fights because his movement was halted completely by a laser cannon in his arms.

[@herpderp5727]

I don't know, Winter semblance is a lot more OP than Ironwood. I mean, a multipurpose glyph vs tunnel vision, LOL. If the writers decided to pull all the stops and remember all the things Glyphs can do besides summoning, like *TIME-DILATION,* and use her glyphs to buff and support allies, which she kinda did, she might have a chance. Heck, maybe show that she's Weiss 2.0 by mixing other elements with her glyphs. In addition, Emerald should also use her semblance to make everyone invisible or something, so as to disorient Ironwood and make him constantly getting hits more plausible. Even then, imagine if Ironwood's experience, raw strength and skill, and senses allowed him to parry most of their attacks, like catch and throw a lightning-amped Nora (presumably by Winter) and push back Jaune in spite of his gravity shield, and even locate and incapacitate Emerald. Then, him being exhausted to allow Oscar and Winter's finishing combo to knock him out. Even then, the fight should be so extreme that most of their auras get depleted.

[@michaelortiz1561]

I will never believe, a orphan slave girl given secret combat lessons would be able to fight a seasoned huntsman on even footing for even a second especially in the way they set up the scene like come on now

[@hypeman1825]

I can't even watch Ironwood's fight. I'm anything but immersed when it's one unarmed man(without an offensive/defensive semblance) fighting against... what six people??.. they really jumped him harder than Pain did Jiriaya. I completely checked out when the show gives us Ironwood seeing Nora held in the air for like 5 seconds mind you and for what's undoubtedly going to be a downward attack directed at him, yet Nora still lands it. Reminds me of when Oscar landed that punch on Neo.

[@SubzeroBlack68]

Would of loved to see Hazel and Ironwood fight. Two unstoppable Juggernaut like fighters going at it.

[@nekuzita6175]

Apperently according to the Vol 8 commemtary the writers only made Ironwood lose because they felt bad having Neo beat JPNR....because what is powersaling

[@troperhghar9898]

The bag sand smoke effect during the cinder Rhoads fight was clearly why RT had the fight in the first place

[@bobi200samatar6]

I think 'Be strong and hit stuff' is supposed to be a group song, rather than a Nora song specifically. The lyrics we do get have references to both Nora (The title) and Emerald (The talk about redemption). Hopefully when the full song comes out, we'll get to see if there are more references to the other characters

[@CeladonHairExtraordinaire]

Good video as always Critter! There's two things though that I would mention, the first of which I'm kind of surprised you didn't talk about so maybe you disagree. Something that A LOT of RWBY fights since the engine switch have suffered from is this detachment from any sense of momentum or impulse. Characters can either go flying or hardly move from being hit by an attack, and either hit the ground and slide back or just immediately stop after hitting the floor/wall/whatever. The same goes for all the fancy big attacks, such as Cinder's, where they seem to defy physics for short periods of time. I don't think in animation it's a cardinal sin to do inhuman moves, but there needs to be consistency and it should look like it's still within the laws of physics, otherwise you just don't know what's possible for a character to do or not to do anymore. I don't think it's helped by their constant warping of speed during the fight. The second is that the whole one character attacks at a time thing is absolutely infuriating because it's completely avoidable. One of my favourite fight scenes in a film ever was the corridor fight in Oldboy (the OG Korean one, not the shitty remake). The main character has this fairly brutal fight in a corridor, which limits the antagonists to approaching him primarily from the front and back like a 2D fighting game stage and the one-take, side-view camera angle reflects that really well. But even in this restricted space, in what feels like a 2 dimension fighting stage, you have multiple people going at the protagonist, and you get the sense that a few people at once are *trying* to have a go at him but the space just doesn't allow that. There's even a really cool detail where one of the antagonists takes a swing but hits the wall and breaks his weapon by accident. It's such a perfect usage of a set, in combination with a camera angle that sells the feeling, and the acting which gives it the vibe of a long and brutal brawl until no-one can, or wants to, fight anymore. I don't know where CRWBY gets their inspiration for fights and cinematography from but it's so rarely above servicable that I would honestly like to know what they're watching. Edit: Don't get me wrong, the series has it's moments. The Watts vs Ironwood fight was very good and clearly a lot of work and thought went into it. It feels like there was a crunch for vol 8 or at least decisions were being made at the very last moment.

[@VaporeyeZ]

OMG SAYING IRONWOOD IS WEIRD NOW WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ME CRITTER

[@Awesome_Pichu]

Fights don't really make sense when everyone seems to be moving at the same speed. Especially when certain people use larger and heavier weapons.

[@AndorRadnai]

As an architecture student and aspiring designer, a video about your disappointment with the weapons would be massively interesting..!

[@natecarrasco7085]

Besides everything you mentioned! I wish winter would have some sort of time reference in her final slash. Either a time dilation symbol or even just a clock sound. It would better explain where the move came from

[@cj-bi7hz]

i would love to see a video where you discuss your dissapointment in rwby weapons

[@shfhsvomvolakis2318]

why dissapointment ? Many of them are realy cool

[@carbodude5414]

Yeah, the weapons have been really lame Whatever happened to "Its also a gun!"? Now we have either overly-simplistic weapons or weapons that are just too silly to be taken seriously

[@kamiladiaz1465]

Maybe a video comparing really good/creative weapons and really bad/lame ones?

[@Pootis-Spencer]

27:18 they need to use this sound effect more XD

[@Dragonkid1801]

i think rhodes aura broke easily because he just came back from a mission, but considering how rwby usually does aura breaks, that might just be me being lenient

[@carbodude5414]

The writers seem to have forgotten about Ironwood being a mostly a cyborg in Vol 3. I was waiting for Ironwood to go completely berserk, shedding his fake skin and going full Terminator on everyone who betrayed him.... but nope! Miles decided to confirm his death outside the show and weakly bring up "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" on Ironwood's charcters.... but not Team RWBY of course! They're the "good guys"!

[@yaheardme2817]

Definitely will watch when I'm off work.

[@slipskolt7300]

Imagine if instead of clicking his pistols into the cannon like a Nintendo Switch, Ironwood could turn his pistols into hatchets. You know, like the one the Tinman uses in Wizard of Oz. Hell, they could have even just turn the cannon into one big ass axe.

[@herpderp5727]

Oh yeah, I forgot that RWBY is a show with hybrid weapons. Then again the writers did too. The most technologically advanced and militaristic kingdom in Remnant, has a headmaster who only wields guns, a special operative who only wields a rapier, and an elite huntsman who uses a fishing rod 🤦‍♂️. Yeah, I've seen fanmade RWBY weapons that are exactly as you described, pistols that turn into hatchets. In addition, my suggestion is instead of sticking his pistols into an ugly ass cannon, maybe pull an Arkham Knight and merge his pistols into a super powerful sniper that increases piercing damage or something. And while in this form, the sniper adds another melee weapon, turning into a spear (like Pyrrha) or a halberd. Though, if Ironwood can even use his weapons I feel like his defeat would've been even more nonsensical than it already is. *UPDATE:* So, Winter's weapon isn't a rapier, but a sabre with a parry dagger. My mistake and I'll admit that. Though my points regarding their weaponry still stand.

[@carbodude5414]

@@herpderp5727 They shouldn't have had Ironwood lose at all

[@herpderp5727]

@@carbodude5414 I think we're all in agreement on that one 🤣. Ironwood: I can't believe they made me lose to teenagers (and Winter)! Ace-Ops (who were fodderized by RWBY): First time?

[@princeofqrow3181]

I hate to be that guy but, Winter weapon isn't rapier it actually saber with parry dagger.

[@herpderp5727]

@@princeofqrow3181 Ah, ok. Thank you 🙏. Though, for me, my point still stands regarding their weaponry 🤣.

[@tiffanykay6060]

It would’ve been sooo cool if Emerald made Ironwood have a hallucination of Ozpin. Just think about his look of shock and his hesitation! Even just for a second. Also, it would’ve been cool to see Jaune aura amp Emerald… who knows how vivid her illusions could have gotten? I guess all we can do is dream though, huh?

[@cretinouscretin9677]

*insert some incomprehensible shpiel about how the writers know that Ironwood’s stupid Gun-Gun is impractical and that it’s to highlight his further downward spiral here*

[@dhaneharrison1230]

The only thing I can think of when I look at ironwood’s super-soaker is that it must be a real bitch to aim that thing with how front heavy it is with no support for holding it.

[@terrantitanium6441]

"I'm mad because I'm losing again >:(" Your delivery and comedy is consistently so much fun

[@chorizord6974]

For a show which slogan is "It's also a gun" they use a heck of a lot of swords

[@kibanathadragon5184]

Don’t forget Penny/Emerald using contractions when in actuality the real Penny would never use contractions

[@ShizuruRavenRobin026]

Noy sure if you like getting recommended things like animes or Manga but if you ever like to try something give witch hat atelier a try it has amazing art and a dark story to it

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

I think I've heard of that? I'll have to look into it! :)

[@hectorespinosa9720]

OMG this is so cool, I love it. Just yesterday I was rewatching that first analysis video and I wondered what happened and now I see you uploaded a new one! You made my day

[@Whosthathufflepuff]

Absolutely love this! Breaking down every move and critiquing it is such a fun way to learn more about how things things really could have been amazing with some tweaks. Your suggestions for improvement are incredibly thoughtful too. I could watch these forever

[@joshbarnes2313]

I just wanna say I LOVE your laugh

[@maokai09]

Excellent vid; great points (glad you caught that electric glyph thing) and hope for more~

[@taylorh1872]

Honestly? I love these videos, truly a fun and entertaining concept that I personally am really into. I hope you keep making these (if it’s not too much trouble, that is.) Great job!!

[@romulusnuma116]

14:20 What the hell is Rhodes doing here? Moving to holding his weapons out in front whiles his enemy is crouching

[@momonomo2008]

Even though winter’s finisher looked cool, I still have no idea what she actually did. Like, was it a glyph ? Or was she just so cool she produced her own effects

[@littlebitydragon6008]

It didn't look that cool it was really off for me

[@yashaoftheflames8475]

it was supposed to be one of those cool shots in anime where two characters clash ( ie you'll see some sort of effect) then it takes a moment before one character falls down.

[@momonomo2008]

@@yashaoftheflames8475 Yeah I get that, but what did she actually do? Was it a semblance thing? Or was it just a simple slash

[@phillo3669]

27:17 I laughed so hard, it wasn't even that funny lmao

[@DocMicrowave]

lol, not the first time bodies mysteriously moved location. Vernal's body also moved.

[@zoneco9013]

I would have really loved to see Ironwood stealing people's weapons and trying to find Emerald while simultaneously dealing with everyone else, it would have made the fight so much more interesting and dynamic while showcasing Ironwood's tactical abilities.

[@bountybrownie3324]

Pretty late to these fight analyses but these are so much fun! I love all the details you go over, how you even go over the characters' expressions, the music and whether or not it's related to what's happening in the fight, and so on! I also especially really like when you talked about the room Cinder and Rhodes fought in. One idea I have for the fight is Cinder using the white sheet covering the couch! If they're both super close to the couch, she could grab and throw the white sheet on him to obscure his vision. And instead of a random bag of sand conveniently falling from the cabinet, maybe it could be something more personal like a bag or box of her stepsisters' jewelry. I think it would set Cinder off even more, and Rhodes could end up losing his balance and tripping over the beads and jewels if Cinder throws them at him.

[@Step43099]

I would love to see your opinion on the Mercury fights (vs Pyrrha, CFVY, and Yang in V3) since they just seem to forget that he ever existed

[@shadowbrine114]

27:16 the fights would be so much better if they had commentary like this the whole time. I was deadass sobbing with laughter

[@thebigthree7954]

YAY! another judgmental critter video

[@YaboiZephyr]

Please do more of these they are awesome

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

Good news! I'm already planning another one for November! :)

[@miadaorerk1681]

Thinking about it, I really wish Rhodes' fight hadn't been so aggressive. Like Cinder was the one always charging forward while Rhodes always goes on the defensive. Not only would it emphasize Cinder's "keep on attacking until it works" personality, it would show Rhodes' restraint and never wanting to hurt her. He just wants to knock her out and Cinder doesn't trust that.

[@Shiv79506]

I cannot express how much I fucking cackled at 27:15 eventhough everyone in my house is asleep. I should probably stop watching your videos at night but they're too good.

[@timeahwg4867]

Heyo! So im new to this show but i really loved your content about it so far! Do you think it's worth it whatching the whole show or should I skip some seasons to get to the good stuff? Im just really scared that it won't be as enjoyable as watching your videos...

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

I do suggest watching the whole show! There's a lot of little things sprinkled here and there that do end up becoming more important, so I couldn't suggest skipping a season or anything. However I will warn you, the 5th season is... pretty bad. I think it's worth it to see the way it all plays out, but you might want to watch that one at a higher speed. :)

[@timeahwg4867]

Thank you!

[@adammyers7383]

You do have to wonder how they have to allocate their budget. I mean this volume was HUGE-is this actually bad work or is it sacrificing parts of these fights for the sake of some the bigger things like the giant army of Grimm combating the entire army of Atlas? Which less fantastic parts of the show are the CRWBY’s fault and which are strategic budget allocations and struggles against time and other outside factors?

[@wvn9957]

Time flies fast, I didn't even notice that Volume 9 will start in 3 months.

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

Has this been confirmed?

[@Ethan-nl2wg]

If you want to switch between good and bad rwby fights, than it would be cool to get a good post V3 fight, personally I think that Maria vs Tock and her gang is a good one, even if it also slightly suffers from the attack one at a time thing

[@LTDragoonIII]

It feels like ironwood's fight was kinda like when Blake fought against Adam back in season 5 when they show a character as a powerhouse and then in thier next fight they kinda just make them look bad and everything feels rushed.

[@kamanira]

The only reason "Be Strong and Hit Stuff" would ever be fitting is if it was used to foreshadow Ironwood's redemption... Which clearly didn't happen, seeing as he's the ruler of the new Kingdom of Atlantis.

[@orangemarissa50]

One thing I really wished we got to see was Ironwood and Ozpin/Oscar talk/fight. There was so much history between all of them and its disappointing we never got that confrontation.

[@-Serqet-]

31:31 Winter really said judgment cut

[@greyworld6242]

You should do a analysis for the Cinder vs Raven fight next. Also these videos were great. Rhodes shouldn’t have drawn his weapons first and in tern instigated the start of the fight. Looking back on it, it’s weird how Rhodes uses his semblance on his throat area while blocking cinder’s sword attack only BEFORE she actually uses hers on him. 11:15 same though here. Wish they showed her semblance awaking in a different way. Also the POV for Rhodes should’ve been higher with the camera since his an adult and cinder is still a teenager. Ironwood should’ve at the very least put up a better fight then this, after he thought “Penny” was not going to be a problem he should’ve put the canon away but still have his guns close by so he could still fight with the them instead of having that big chunk of metal slowing his movement down.

[@Step43099]

i think a better combined gun would've been like the Red Ranger's Delta Blasters from Power Rangers S.P.D, they're basically 2 pistols but one of the folds flat and connects with the other one like a big shotgun

[@greyworld6242]

@@Step43099 hmm, maybe.

[@Step43099]

@@greyworld6242 I mean let’s be honest anything’s better than the big hunk of garbage they handicapped him with

[@greyworld6242]

@@Step43099 yep!

[@CawmeKrazee]

i really want to see you do a full analysis of Cinder as a character.

[@annimu9081]

27:16 When I tell you how hard I laughed

[@aigisno1652]

Fights now seem so planned rather then cool unexpected and spontaneous

[@BengFT12]

I just had a thought about the fight and, what if they did something similar to the “Tex vs Wyoming, Maine, and York” fight? Meaning, it would start the same with him losing his weapon, but then after that instead of just Jaune, all three of the close range fighters (Jaune, Ren, and Oscar) would begin to surround and try to overwhelm Ironwood, with it eventually becoming a 3v1 like in the Tex fight, showing Ironwood’s incredible skill in hand to hand combat by him holding and pushing them back. Now of course A) he wouldn’t be as overpowered as Tex was, B) he should still take some hits here (this would be a good spot to have his aura shimmer once), and C) it wouldn’t last a long time (again maybe 10ish seconds like the Tex fight) but it would be a great scene to see Ironwood “literally” surrounded and fighting off multiple opponents. Oscar would eventually be thrown/kicked away (showing Ironwoods brute strength against a smaller opponent) and then Ren would get punched hard and knocked down. Next, Ironwood would move to try and finish Ren off, forcing Jaune to jump in the way and protect Ren, pushing Ironwood back with his gravity blast. This pushes Ironwood into the open, leading to Nora, in defense/revenge for Ren, running towards an off-balance Ironwood, first shooting a rocket at him, and then turning her weapon into a hammer. Ironwood would be forced to dodge the rocket, causing him to be more off balanced, while Nora begins to immediately attack him with her hammer. Ironwood would then continue to be forced to evade until eventually, thanks to the fact that her hammer takes slower swings compared to other weapons, he is able to get to a proper stance where he can fight back. This leads to him, after a big swing from Nora, dodging her attack and throwing her towards Ren and Jaune using her own momentum. She would land hard, but with Jaune standing ready in a defensive stance, Ironwood would be cautious and not immediately attack the three. He would then remember and look to where he threw Oscar, who had gotten up from being thrown, but had not attacked and is looking behind Ironwood. Confused at first, Ironwood would realize too late and an ice shard attack knocks him down (another aura shimmer here). He looks behind and sees Winter coming at him riding the Grimm, giving the audience his “betrayal” face, before getting up just in time to stop the Grimm (like from the original). Winter, flying through the air, again like the original, would create a glyph(s) for Oscar, who was standing ready to be launched, and send him flying towards Ironwood, leading to the same ending of the fight as the original. This way, it shows Ironwood’s incredible fighting abilities while also trying to have everyone either fighting or standing around FOR A REASON (ex: Jaune protecting Ren/Nora, Nora/Winter staying at a distance in the beginning as they can attack from long range, Oscar standing ready for Winter’s glyphs/ice attack before surprise attacking Ironwood, etc.). (Sorry for it being so long and any poor wording. Also thanks to those who actually got this far, an idea popped into my head, so I just ran with it)

[@MinisterEvil]

One thing I would have liked in the Ironwood fight would have been if at some point during it, he had realized he was fighting Ozpin instead of Oscar... which they also never established whether Ozpin or Oscar was in control at the time.

[@DocMicrowave]

Speed. Sums up V8 in a nutshell. The whole volume felt rushed. Especially in the later episodes. 46 seconds for that Cinder v Rhodes fight? It did feel very short but wow. Par for the course in this volume.

[@alexandreturcotte6411]

We can say a;; we want about Cinder's backstory, but what's sure is that I like her haircuts.

[@DocMicrowave]

Critter - "budget issues, or time constraints." Me - Yes

[@flameproductions8360]

I was honestly surprised when you said "be strong and hit stuff" was a nora song(while it shouldve been obvious) I thought the lyrics you showed on screen were referring to Emerald and turning into a good guy . . But uh, I know how you feel about that-

[@jayb.6705]

I feel like for the Cinder and Rhodes fight they could have tried something similar to the Neo and Cinder fight, both fights take place in cluttered spaces, and Neo tosses nearby plates at cinder and it was a really cool different style of fight, and I think this fight could’ve done something similar, sadly it didn’t

[@eachthebabyperry6716]

Rhodes could have had his weapons turn into iron man gauntlets, giving him a two different fighting styles or when his mace gets bigger it turns into cannons so shooting his weapon looks less lazy.

[@nauticalmoon2109]

First person camera in fight scenes *can* work actually there’s a whole cut in DBS: Broly where it’s just from the perspective of one of the characters and it’s amazing The difference is that the camera is used to sell the speed and momentum of the characters fighting and the transition is so seemless that it’s hard to even realize it’s in first person at first RWBY uses it to show a characters reaction to an a attack flurry and the transition is never more complex than a angle change

[@TheVTable]

Great Video, I can’t wait for your problems with RWBY’s Modern Weapons video

[@BeautifulBelladonna]

On another note about the Lazer, why is it green? Ozpin's color. For a show about color, why Ironwood's big dumb Lazer the same color as the man you just shot off Atlas in the last volume, why not have it be red, Salem's color to show his decent into madness or something, and even without that in mind, it doesn't work well with the rest of his outfit

[@raptorjesus3894]

They really missed the mark with Ironwood, from what we can see, dude was basically Hazel levels of tanky. If they wanted to have an actual "fight" of him vs the MCs, they needed to have solely Nora be the one to hit him hard, being the only one strong enough to, with everyone else basically doing small staggers or stuns to keep him occupied, or supporting the people fighting him. They also should have given a reason for him to be more sluggish (The MCs could barely keep up with just watching Qrow Vs Tyrian, Ironwood should be no different), so the opening attack should have been maybe some sort of EMP or electrical attack that slowed his movements due to his cybernetics. Then also show that Emerald is using her semblance to cause him to miss his shots from his guns (Because giving him some crappy BFG knock-off is dumb)

[@angeldude101]

Literally the only part of the Ironwood fight that I remembered was Winter's finisher and Emerald's backflip punctuated with "it's okay." Huh, thinking more, the only parts I remember from the Cinder fight was also the very start and end.

[@exodusslayer1272]

U know I never noticed most of these thinks while watching lol until u mention it 👏🏼👏🏼👍🏼😂

[@silverus9954]

Tbh when it came to Nora charging up in that fight I didn't even think it was Winter's glyph a weird "upgrade" they gave Nora back in like volume 4 episode 1 was the ability to like self-charge by having the hammer shock itself?? (Something I don't think we really see more of later/they have her instead resort to relying on electricity from outside sources again) so I don't know if that was the writer's intention of it being like Nora's hammer self-shock upgrade thing or Winter's glyph or what.

[@jonathanrobinson198]

The thing about adding or removing frames though is if you have to many then the the fight can feel sluggish or attacks don’t feel as impactful. On the other hand to little frames and things get a bit jarring. I think the Cinder and Rhodes fight isn’t really suffering from speed between individual attacks, but the fact there aren’t many skirmishes or contact blows to linger on before the next set of attacks. It would help people process.