Ancient Egyptians Were Mining Copper from the Great Lakes? Ask an Archaeologist pt. 3

[@jeanettereno4045]

When I was a child in 1978 my sisters visiting kids who lived on the Indian reservation in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I had told them we were going to be visiting the copper mines. One child said his ancestors made them. His elderly grandfather stood up and yelled, "We Never built the copper mines. They were here before us!" It shocked me because he was always nice and peaceful. He then said to the kids how upset he was that they didn't even know their own history. This is when I became interested in finding out truths of our blended world and how civilizations have interacted. I always have an open mind and I don't believe everything which we can yet explain must be done by aliens.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

While we tend to gloss all of the indigenous peoples of the Americas as "Native American" there are a LOT of different ethnic groups here. Migrations happen. It's not unlikely that whoever you were talking to belonged to a group of relative latecomers to the area.

[@anubis8181]

@@NathanaelFosaaen or possibly seeing that modern man has been around for 300 thousands years from certain estimates it is very strange to think our so called recorded history is the only true history. Let's say you did have proof of the transalatantic whatever trade do you really think archeologists around the world who have been literally digging in circles would let their money train leave. Mainstream archeology is diseased to the core. Oh the disease theory doesn't fly either but it can explain the natives not knowing who dug the copper because those who where around died off. Basically natives were hit twice with it.

[@lo-fihi-ki5699]

I was told by my elders the same.. forsake the vikings landed here in America.. but so did phonecian & Pacific Islanders... the swastika seems to be the best/ least credible evidence.. of ancient civilizations meeting with a ancient aryan civilization .. Aryans were white but not all ancestors these days are white.. samurai of Japan to Ethiopians have aryan ancestors same with brahmin Vedic hindus to most modern Europeans

[@jjmckay6man1]

There are Viking ships and other runes carved into bedrock not far from where I live in the Keweenaw peninsula that MTU geologists have dated at 1100 AD. The Vikings were here. They were here for a reason and not pleasure cruising.

[@BoJo5066]

I remember watching a show about researchers finding old metal relics with metal detectors. A group found a Viking sword buried several feet or less down in upper Minnesota.

[@arvilmogensen1945]

As a Flint Knapper I have great respect for the skill set of ancient peoples. Adding Copper (raw copper) into the discussion raises questions. I readily accept the ancient peoples knew about it and thus used it, but then I am left flabbergast that it was not traded over time to become pervasive in archaeological sites over large areas. A maleuable metal compared to “unforgiving” stone lithic material is a monumental improvement and some might say enough to entirely displace stone tools. There seems a disconnect between functionality and wide spread use. I need a nudge or hint to help me understand coexistence between metal and stone tools.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

you can make a stone projectile in as little as 20 minutes, and copper tools take hours or even days to make. Michelle Bebber's dissertation looked at the functional difference between the two and found that for projectiles, copper was no more effective than stone, and flake tools are sharper than copper can ever be, so copper was relegated to ceremonial and exchange value. Copper was traded across vast distances. great lakes coper is found all the way down in Louisiana.

[@AncientAmericas]

This was soooooo satisfying to watch. Down with pseudoarchaeology! Very well done!

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

I'm sure I'll have plenty of opportunities to be pitch a conniption on camera in the future!

[@thinkinaboutpolitics]

I love it when KZbinrs I watch end up in other people's comments. It's like a crossover episode.

[@buzzardscry1383]

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@arkaig1]

Nathanael and A.A.: I am concerned A.A.'s wonderful 'Copper' video, which brought me here, may have "outed" the 2nd US-41 "Riverside" site 'too much'. I grew up near various 'Red Paint People' (ish?) sites, which back in the 80s, were requested that locals keep 'vaguely inspecific'. I post here, having trouble finding a better 'medium' through which to comment about it, and be sure to field at least some 'interested parties'. Wonderful videos both, and "Thanks!".

[@GizzyDillespee]

I'm down with pseudoarcheology. Though it should be labeled properly, with rebuttals such as this. But twice a day ne of the ideas pans out once it's been investigated. This conspiracy's been debunked. Thanks!

[@tonyscott1658]

Just a couple of things: (1) the Michigan copper mines end around 1200 BCE. This is also about the end of the Bronze Age in Europe. Is this coincidence? The end of the Bronze age has been researched in depth: earthquakes in the Anatolian fault lines, the sea peoples, etc.. all contributed. But this dynamic is European and middle-eastern. So why would the Michigan copper mines in America end their 'business' at about the same time? (2) 1.5 billion tons of Michigan copper going back into the ground? I've seen some of the artifacts of the Michigan copper: fish hooks, spear heads, tools... That should have produced a civilization to rival the Aztecs!

[@buddasdad]

I love the concept of a transatlantic bronze age copper trade going on here, but as I lay here writing this in the twilight at 10:43pm, with mosquitoes pounding the screens, I realize this is some armchair fantasy. To get copper out of here, to get it out of the Keweenaw, one has to arrive after April but leave in September. Copper is heavy. The Coureurs de Bois, for nearly two centuries, paddled back and forth across the Lake. They didn't haul copper, they hauled beaver pelts. They didn't portage copper out of here. I can see small quantities of copper being dug out of pits and carried south but even crossing the Peninsula on the Rapid River Truck Trail (the old portage between Lake Superior and Lake Michigan, is a really long hike, especially with no pack animal. So small quantities for thousands of years makes sense, but large quantities didn't leave here until the locks were built. Did you ever try to break up a chunk of float copper? It brings a new meaning to "malleable".

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Unless they had Solomon's Magic Carpet, aka Sailed ships, aka the Triemes of the Phoenician Empire, which aligned with the Assyrians to create the Neo Assyrian Empire in 911BC. Same people that wrote the Bible which is their Almanac for navigating the Atlantic using the stars, written with an Antithykera mechanism and based on centuries of research from the Pyramids and Stonehenges. The same astrological archeology we find in N America. Sine o' the Times: Babylonian Tablet Holds Oldest Evidence of Trigonometry. Scientists recently decoded a clay tablet from ancient Babylonia that dates to around 3,700 years ago, and found that it contains the oldest trigonometric table in the world. Above proof of Pythagorean theorem existing in ancient Mesopotamian a 1000 years before Pythagoras (570-495) suggesting (which I constantly do) that Greek culture was simply an extension of Middle Eastern culture. The orientalism of Europe has been a constant since as has the influence of Europe on the Middle East. Plimpton 322 is a Babylonian clay tablet, notable as containing an example of Babylonian mathematics. It has number 322 in the G.A. Plimpton Collection at Columbia University.[1] This tablet, believed to have been written about 1800 BC, has a table of four columns and 15 rows of numbers in the cuneiform script of the period.

[@IeremiasMoore-El]

@@uncannyvalley2350 5 months later Archaeology still has no response....

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@IeremiasMoore-El there's also the Dolmen culture that showed up in New England in 1000BC, same time as the rise of the Neo Assyrian Empire. The evidence is there, just no one left a big flashing neon sign that says "hey internet we came here to take their copper" we also have the cocaine and nicotine found in numerous mummies dating to the exact same period

[@dom_xi-dzopa720]

is it possible that the Coureurs de bois used another method or more probable i think, may another society have engaged in trade around, contemporary with and/or in the same area?

[@tedolphbundler724]

4k yrs. BFP there was a water route out of the Great Lakes down the Mississippi w/o portage.

[@bella42291]

I watched Graham Handcock on joe rogan a long time ago and looked for people to answer his allegations but seemed like everyone was shying away from it. Thanks for doing it. I gotta admit i like his outside fantastical crap but i would also like a coherent response too.

[@Mrbfgray]

He does highlight some incredible mysteries no one seems able to answer--the astoundingly accurate (apparently machined) vases found by the 10s of thousands in Egypt and the moving, fitting and in some cases amazing 'carving' of massive megaliths globally.

[@forrestunderwood3174]

Ugh, enough. Both of you.

[@Garblegox]

I may not fully agree; the lines stay blurry from my POV. But I appreciate that you're an actual expert, with skin in the game, and you're educated enough that you can explain yourself, rather than just insult people. I'm the kind of guy who, if you scoff at me for asking questions, I just assume you're a liar. It's rarely a rational impulse, but it's how I operate; been lied to too many times by people with superficial merit badges of expertise, instead of a real grasp of reality. I trust you. So now it's time to binge all your videos.

[@Chuck-e7d]

Thank you for dragging me out of that rabbit hole. I was a big Hancock fan until recently. Your take on the disease aspect really opened my eyes to the truth. Good work my friend.

[@badguy5554]

BUT....WHY do the native Americans in the Great Lakes region show Haplogroup blood types similar to peoples in the Middle East? AND...The period in which that copper extraction from the Great Lakes region ENDED around 1250 BC. Long before many of the killer diseases that killed so many native Americans in the 1500's due to European contact, were even extant! And...WHY did the copper mining END in 1250 BC...EXACTLY at the time when Europe was transitioning from Bronze to Iron?

[@Mrbfgray]

Hancock has some value salted in with the nonsense, not in his hypothesis so much but in the questions no one can answer.

[@proudlyamerican2764]

The truth must be somewhr between Hancock and this cat who is certainly status quo!

[@proudlyamerican2764]

I mean just think about it, up until last few decades clovis first was gospel. People were all over America's all at once from tip of Na to Sa like bam still stays quo cannot and does not have a sense making thesis nor agree on any 1 thing at all! How big of a migration would take place just to put clovis points from pacific to Atlantic all from 12500bce to 11900bce? They were some traveling motherfuckers I reckon all of them!😂😅

[@jimwright5828]

@@Mrbfgraythat’s how the best lies work. Just a dash of truth to make people nod their heads saying oh yeah yeah! 😂

[@lukasmakarios4998]

"This is archaeology, not the X-Files." The Truth is out there, but you have to go dig it up, document how you found it, and publish what it means. Archaeology is not about keeping ancient secrets. The whole reason we do it is to learn about the past, and share it, so that we can glean whatever wisdom we can from that knowledge. BTW, it wasn't copper that was in short supply in Europe, but tin. There were very few sources of tin, which is what caused the collapse of the Bronze Age, when trade routes were disrupted in the 12th century BCE. There was plenty of copper, but the trade in tin was rather tenuous.

[@therockinboxer]

Oh yea, absolutely right. I think for a lot of people, the idea of an ancient sea faring proto culture would be simply the best! Of course you're talking 13-45,000 BCE in a lot of these theories, good luck finding the evidence... but the mystery is still out there, without having to apply so much pseudo-intellectualism. Combine that with all the lost knowledge of the past, and you've got a conspiracy ripe for picking. It does make good hidtorical/ fantasy fiction, you can't deny. It's just a shame people don't take that love for story telling and apply it to actual discoveries. Cheers

[@jessebianchi2631]

Graham Hancrock

[@guytrout7101]

This is correct. The supply of tin was rare in ancient times in Europe and Middle East.

[@jacobshort6528]

@@guytrout7101 Was the Roman settlement of Londinium settled because of nearby tin deposits? If so, could the Phonecians have mined tin there thousands of years earlier?

[@nikoknowledge6660]

@@jacobshort6528 absolutely

[@jasonhoffman6642]

Thanks for your work, Nathaniel! I enjoy the content of your videos and appreciate your science communications! It’s nice to know that there are fascinating ancient civilizations near where I live. Keep up the great work!

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

I'm overjoyed that you actually got the point! Not being sarcastic. That is the whole point of this channel.

[@MD-NWWI]

This is very valuable information. Thank you! Also now I feel badly as I was metal detecting in a park near lake Superior and found a celt made of copper. I was looking for coins and jewelry. I better not tell anyone where I found it or the looters will take over this park!

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Let your state Arch society know so they can enter it into their records. at the very least if a DOT job or pipeline gets close they'll know about it.

[@LadyYoop]

DEF don't tell...

[@MD-NWWI]

@LadyYoop nobody knows! I've stumbled across a couple other pieces since then. Usually it's just one here and one there. They sure are interesting pieces!

[@LadyYoop]

That is beyond cool....but do tell someone that needs to know...could be some major stuff there!! @@MD-NWWI

[@BaronBoar]

​@@NathanaelFosaaen Don't tell anyone especially the Smithsonian. They make things like this disappear.

[@tessjuel]

You forgot one argument. The bronze age Mediterrean civilizations are within recorded history, allbeit barely so. If they had known about the Americas, there should have been some mention of it in written sources and there certainly would have been pictures of native Americans and exotic American animals in their art.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

I mean I COULD have gone that route, but with that really early history a lot of it is so vague and fantastical that if you REALLY wanted to, I imagine you could interpret some mythological reference or traveler's account to be about the Americas. Maybe like the Hyperboreans or something like that. So if I HAD said "There's no text evidence from the old world talking about new world peoples, plants, or animals from the bronze age." I'd immediately have some Tom, Dick, or Harry pointing to some such reference and being even more convinced of their delusion than before. The isotopes are a much more definitive data point.

[@tessjuel]

@@NathanaelFosaaen Oh yes, the chemical analyzis is the clincher, that's irrefutable evidence that leaves no doubt doubt whatsoever. And on second thought, I do see your point that it may have been better to focus on that and not bring in too many other arguments.

[@LuisAldamiz]

They are NOT "within recorded history" or barely so. Only Egypt and the Hittites, to some extent the parts of Asia between them, can be said to be within written History, even Mycenaean Greece is almost purely archaeological (they had some writings but not enough). Further West it's all prehistory until almost the Roman era or even later dates.

[@tessjuel]

@@LuisAldamiz Bronze age Egypt and the Hittities are exactly what we were talking about here. But anyways, the chemical analyzis of the copper is conclusive and there's no real need for more evidence. I shouldn't have brought this up at all ehre. SOrry, that that was stupid of me.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@tessjuel - You said "Mediterranean civilizations", which are a much wider category than just Egypt and the Hittites. I would not just think of Greeks but also (and crucially here) Iberian civilizations that are well documented archaeologically but did not write (at least not extensively) until the Iron Age (their descendants such as Iberians and Tartessians, they also suffered some sort of late Bronze Age collapse).

[@bluecrow3755]

Good stuff and thanks last two uploads made me more smarter appreciate the links as always. thanks uploading ♠️.

[@louisbaldwin7097]

thank god for people like you debunking this bs

[@michael-1680]

Nathanael, thank you so very much for making this video. We need help to debunk all the misinformation and phony pseudo-theories that get passed around by cospiracy fans and other idiots. Bravo to you for doing this!

[@katherinereece]

Susan R. Martin did an excellent job of debunking this in her book; Wonderful Power: The Story of Ancient Copper Working in the Lake Superior Basin.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

I love that book.

[@rudy103069]

@@NathanaelFosaaen I find it funny that the Ojibwe people came from the East Coast and wiped out all the copper making tribes. They where still in the area around 1200 ad, the Ojibwe migration started around 1100 ad. The copper people where Mound builders/Pyramids, copper tools and ceramics. Ive looked at maps and Souix always on the west side of the Mississippi.Mound Builders go as far North as Rainy River.

[@rudy103069]

Then the European came behind us and almost wiped us out, but then wiped our minds throught the resdential school system. Kids went in at 7 and left around 14, 7 years equals spent 7.5 generations went throught and now all is lost.Oh they killed off all the Midewiwin but then took the daughters and bred them to have children , so i guess they know the real history.

[@rudy103069]

besant sonota laurels black duck peoples, think the sonota is the souix, laurels blackduck gone Saultex ojibwe here now. Creator told us to migrate from east coast to where the wild rice grew on the water,spicific wild rice and we are here to this day only where this rice is.

[@rudy103069]

America, Amaruca, Amaru, - Land of the Feathered Serpent hence the American Native Headdress, Feathered Serpent.

[@razony]

The analyses of the cooper in Egypt wouldn't be hard to test against that from the Great Lakes. Should be a no brainer.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

I'm pretty sure that testing has been done and confirmed, Scott Wolten covered this as well

[@KhanCrete]

@@uncannyvalley2350 well-documented pseudoscientist Scott wolter?

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@KhanCrete well documented? Was he the one that did the testing? Did he dress up in a lab coat and sneak into a University? I guess I could call you a "psuedo scientist" too, saves one the trouble of having to think of an actual argument hey

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

What Wolters did was a really slick slight-of-hand. I watched that episode. What he did was a bulk chemical analysis, which doesn't actually tell you if two copper specimens come from the same source. All it tells you is how much copper is in each item and what the other trace elements are. It would be like taking a 20 karat gold earring, and testing it against a 20 karat gold ingot from a known source and saying the earring came from the same source as the gold because they're both about 83% gold. If they had actually wanted to source those Mediterranean artifacts, they'd have done an isotopic study, which they didn't do for the episode, because previous isotopic analyses show the copper artifacts from the Mediterranean match sources in and around the Mediterranean. It was a slick little bit of deception, because most audiences don't have the technical knowledge to see through the rouse.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@NathanaelFosaaen forgive me if I don't buy that nonsense Scott Woulten has legitimate work with legitimate findings. But if you can explain why American Megalith Sites have mathematical codes in their construction that reference other Megaliths in Europe. The irony of accusing someone else of handwavium While waving your hand

[@MemoryPallace]

This is awesome ! I need a community of like minded people.

[@blaisetreinen1677]

Hey, I just watched this video. Thank you! It answers some questions I had after recently reading "Ancient Mines of kitchi-Gummi" by Roger Jewell. That book seemed to present some compelling evidence for the Isle Royale-to-Cypress/Crete-copper-trade, but it was a lot of speculation. Turns out those other parts of the world actually did have locally regional sources of copper. The isotope studies disproving the ingots' speculated origin was the final nail in the coffin for me. So, some incredible stuff happened with "a LOT" of copper from the U.P., but I no longer believe it supplied the whole bronze age thing overseas. Funny thing for conspiracy theorists to latch onto, but I guess convincing people of crazy, alternate realities is a big kick and big business these days.

[@forrestunderwood3174]

No. It's about very average people who want to portray themselves as having great knowledge nobody else has. That's why people latch onto "conspiracy theories". So they can feel and seem to be more than they really are. They always begin with "Don't you think it seems strange that...." or "How could it be that...", or "It would make perfect sense that...". Enough.

[@cvan7681]

SO where did all the Lake Superior copper go?

[@StanJan]

Hancock... Aliens... Theories... Some yes, are in “this” for the money. No doubt. Most however, are good people and have been misguided, or walked off the path. Teach them. Thank you for all your work. We need to speak the truth as truth and fact. Remain optimistic and keep the faith. Thank you. Stan

[@murrayreid2644]

Reminds me of the Chariots of the Gods scam when I was a kid lol. Great vid.

[@andypanda4927]

Wasn't a scam. To my mind, he actually believed what he spouted and, as usual, 'sold it To others. Some of them turned it into a scam. Still, can't decide for certain, but, believe G.Hancock IS conning the gullible.

[@nozrep]

conning, sure. yet, on a voluntary basis because he does it all through his books and people voluntarily buy them.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

Masons, Mormonism, British Israel Foundation, they discovered this stuff hundreds of years ago, and commodified it for their own ideological purposes. Hapgood, Hancock, Sitchin, Greer, all those hacks are Masons doing Thule Society nonsense

[@danielt.3152]

Thank you for debunking pseudo scientific claims. I am sick and tired of alien conspiracy theories and fake ideas about archaeology.

[@PREPPERSQUIRREL]

You make a good argument against the claims, and I’ll listen to stuff like this first hours. Also, the only way changes in tools suggest migration is if they match exactly to some, somewhere else. This doesn’t include minor changes in techniques, however. No one will ever know who was here in the Americas first. We DO know that it wasn’t the American Indian, who came from Berengia during the last ice age. It’s a fascinating. Thanks for your input.

[@Jason-ms8bv]

I just found out about your channel today via Ancient Americas, so glad I did; clear, concise and scholarly fact based evidence!! These fantasy theories of history are so prevalent and damaging that it's great to hear an actual professional take them out. Also always very satisfying to to hear Graham Hancock's delusional and dangerous nonsense take a kicking!! I subscribed and will be binge watching.

[@montysmythe579]

You must be joking 🤣😂😂😂

[@captainzero5006]

Both delusional and dangerous!! Great Scott man, you should absolutely organise a pitchfork touting mob of baying ideologues to burn all traces of this radicalised heresy.

[@lo-fihi-ki5699]

kinda like saying society originated in Africa when we know it originated in the Black Sea region .. or the 10,000-45,000 lion statue founded in germany.. or the fact every civilization we see the SWASTIKA in such as Japan, china, India, Africa, ancient Europe, and the americas all have trace amounts of caucasian DNA and if not have historically noted BLUE EYED people came with new tech and integrated.. just ignore that fantasy cause it aint out of Africa theory 😂 better believe there is a lot of history that is hidden intentionally by scholars that work for corporation that depend on our ignorance and division to maintain global control.

[@jamisojo]

@@montysmythe579 who you talking to? You didn't address anyone and you didn't specify what they said.

[@terrybarnes5266]

@Jason The only thing that’s dangerous is labeling people who want to discuss the evidence as “dangerous”.

[@stefanlimpyjackedthofer8075]

i guess this puts a end to all speculations that there was a trade between woodland culture and bronzeage europe. your mentioning of the diseases is so convincing. thnx

[@artman2204]

not at all,read the lost empire of atlantis,by gavin menzies.Tons more data

[@joshuablackheart]

So impressed by your easy, well spoken, informative style. Keep it up 🤘🏼

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Thanks! I'm gonna try.

[@montysmythe579]

This is hilarious 🤣 😆 😂 really, You're getting archaeology from meat loaf 🤣🤣

[@dennissalisbury496]

Phonecian or Viking long boats would have been technically capable of traveling to North America and back to Europe. Isotope analysis would seem to prove the origin of copper.

[@hammerclawpc]

Thanks for being a voice reason and knowledge. Most people don't realize how populated North America was, or that before The Great Dying, a trip up the Mississippi would have been like a trip up the Ganges River in India in the same time period.

[@tedolphbundler724]

You didn't convince me that it didn't happen (there is other evidence) but this was a very informative video. You might want to read the Illiad again.Thanks

[@KryderExploration]

We respect your credentials and professional viewpoint (s). Although, after being a professional recovery company that for over 30 years who has been retained by private, academic and government to locate, examine, recover and conserve enigmatic "evidence", both physical and trace... We have a greater altitude with wich to speak on the controversial matter. On this single point, there are literally mountains of all forms of evidence pointing to intercontinental trade going back at least to 800bc. Historical, trace, physical, architectural and epigraphic all tell a clear story. It's about time someone accredited compiles the corroborate info in a compiled study instead of regional or site based. There actually are archeological studies pertaining to this ancient trade but who has really dug to find them. An honest question would be, have you? We commonly work with, employ and have archaeologists/anthropologists on our teams and have excavated many features and recovered many many things that break the historic paradigm. None has been presented in scientific papers. This is normal procedure with both private and gov as we are but just a small % of those over time. Most have no true concern with upsetting the waters of archaeological understanding and opening the huge can of worms with ridicule and bias. But, we are on both sides be of the fence and are not crippled by perr pressure and believe the truth is all that matters. Science does not pick and choose or make opinion. It is always open to revision without ego or belief. Except in archeological related finds. With such being the toughest by far to yield to any form of outstanding revision. In comparison to astronomy and physics etc, which endure massive revision on a near constant basis.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Really? A recovery company? Because when I google you I'm finding a lot about bigfoot. I'd love to see that evidence though! Hit me up!

[@milenaresources4244]

Nice, I know a greek geology guy who pushes the transatlantic theory a lot. I did some background reading on a few publications of copper/bronze artefacts and saw provenance studies from museum pieces found near present day albania point to relatively nearby and non-transatlantic origin. I think the presence of copper in these "Large Igneous Provinces" of the Keeweenawan suggest hunting for indications in other LIP's. I am a porphyry copper expoloration geologist who works in Chile and now in Galena Illinois.

[@rohns2952]

A point of nomenclature, "Northern Michigan" refers to the northern part of the Lower Peninsula (or Lower Michigan), and "Upper Michigan" refers to the entire Upper Peninsula. When discussing copper mining in Michigan it's important to make the distinction of it being in "Upper Michigan" or the Upper Peninsula (also shortened to the U.P.) to avoid any geographic confusion.

[@jimwright5828]

Nobody says Upper Michigan. It’s only called the Upper Peninsula or the UP. SOURCE- me, I was born and raised there.

[@rohns2952]

@@jimwright5828 Let's do some fact checking on your "source", shall we? I'm sure you've heard of WLUC out of Marquette... Tell me Mr. Born And Raised In The Upper Peninsula, what's TV6's slogan again? "Upper Michigan's Source", right? Even their website is called that, right? That ain't nobody, right? Say Yah to da UP, eh?

[@travisgrant5608]

Graham Hancock states himself that he is NOT an archaeologist he is a JOURNALIST!

[@pugdad2555]

Why would people believe this lie but not believe that Africans traded with Native Americans before Europe even thought about bypassing Africa to go to India. Even the King of Portugal wanted to know why Africans would fill ships up with trading goods and head west even though Europe didn't know what was there.

[@neverhungryagain2187]

I don’t get why people are even trying to debunk this. What’s so hard to believe

[@jamisojo]

Were the Africans sailing to the Americas in between hunting and gathering expeditions? But seriously. Do you have any actual evidence of that? Which Africans are you referring to? As I'm sure you know, there are many different African people. Are we talking prehistoric people? People from the area now known as Nigeria? Somewhere else? Egyptians? Carthaginians?

[@nmarbletoe8210]

Wow i'd love to see that King of Portugal reference. Africa and South America are not far, as continents go....

[@zenolachance1181]

What is your opinion on Antonio Zamora research on the extraterrestrial strike in the upper Michigan glacial area? What would be the impact on the Clovis culture and earlier Native American civilizations? Is this within your area of expertise? I'd love to see another video or your opinion on this. Also yes I subscribed

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

So Christopher Moore has proposed a much better supported version of a related idea, that an impact caused a major climatic event that punctuated the end of the Clovis period. From what little I know about Zamora's idea, he was sort of in the ballpark, but not quite right. Chris's geomorphological research looked at what are called "microspherules" which are particulate matter that require high temperatures and a vacuum to form, and right at the Clovis/Late Paleo transition we see a layer of these microspherules that could have only formed either in space or at the impact site of an extraterrestrial impact. He's got a lecture on it on the youtubes if you want to look that up. Now this is going to be a bit nit-picky, but it's my job, so indulge me: We don't really think of any of these cultural groups as "civilizations" for two reasons. First, by definition to be a civilization, you need to have cities. Urban centers. That's what the word means. The second reason is that once you start throwing around the word "civilization" you've introduced the idea that some people are "uncivilized" which doesn't really mean "they don't live in cities," so much as it means they're somehow degenerate or backward, which is simply not the case. Pre-urban cultures are healthier, have more leisure time, and are generally free of the sorts of subjugation and state domination that are inherent to urbanized lifestyles. So for the most part we don't really talk about groups of people or political organizations as "civilizations" anymore in archaeology. It's an antiquated and counterproductive idea.

[@IvorMektin1701]

Zamora's main idea is secondary ejecta impacts forming the Carolina bays and Nebraska rainwater basins. And the elipses are oriented to Saginaw Bay. I don't have a dog in the fight, just a clarification.

[@zenolachance1181]

@@NathanaelFosaaen excellent response thank you. I know Antonio Zamora originally started with the meteor impact but apparently he's agrees with the work with the gentleman that wrote the paper about the spiracles and fractured quartz. I was just wondering what your opinion was on the Theory. Thank you for your opinion

[@nmarbletoe8210]

GISP ice core shows platinum spike ~ 12,900 BP, very large spike preceded by many possible smaller strikes over a decade. Then 30 years later it shows a signal of fires estimated at 6% of the world's land area. So this implies no (known) comet, but a big meteor, possibly in an extended swarm. The 30 year gap is unexplained. The dating has a precision of under 10 years...

[@georgefoundous8445]

I am so happy to find this video! My uncle whos greek (and has a tendency to believe the ancient greeks were basically the gods of the ancient times) has been talking about how the minoans were "So advanced they had giant ships that would import copper from canada". Its been so long ive wanted to look into that nonesense claim this video is a godsend

[@torchape]

Thank you for your channel!! I just found this channel and love the fact- and research-based approach to archaeology. I got my degree in anthropology (archaeology focus) in late 2012. But I don't work in the field because I already have a career since 1978 as a scientific glassblower. For decades, I've specialized in the fabrication, prototype design and testing, and production of glass consumables for ICP optical-emission and mass spectroscopy instruments (ICP-inductively coupled plasma ... not Insane Clown Posse). When I started watching this video, my first thought was there must be a database cataloguing mass-spec signatures for copper sources. I know there are databases for things like lithic materials so particular tools, points, or related debitage can be matched to its source. Not always, of course, but fairly close. Thanks, Nathanael.

[@robertpenny7180]

Good video bro. I also wanted to point out that the Uluburun and other bronze age wrecks happened likely due to hazardous conditions, which are far more frequent in the Atlantic. And no where are bronze age wrecks headed for America found.

[@Coratlan]

Pseudoarcheology is fun for alternate reality and fantasy stories but we shouldnt conflate cool and fun theories with actual history without A LOT of research

[@helenvanpatterson-patton]

Were the copper ingots found on the shipwreck tested to verify origin? I have been waiting for info on this. Subscribed! I have been independently researching this subject for years.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Yes they were lead isotope matched to sources in Cyprus. I cite some sources in the description.

[@helenvanpatterson-patton]

@@NathanaelFosaaen us wakadoo's were hoping great lakes copper,lol.

[@tedolphbundler724]

@@helenvanpatterson-patton Eventually it will happen. What will you do then? Hari Kari?

[@CHGLongStone]

If anyone was serious about the question they'd do some isotope tracing 🤷‍♂️

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Exactly.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

They did.

[@578sundriedAZ]

There were ancient aboriginals who were already here who traded with them. It wasnt NATIVE AMERICANSS who mined nor traded copper

[@nozrep]

Ironically, it likely would have been a much longer period of time for me to have discovered you had it not been for me watching some of Hancock’s quite entertaining stuff, a lá Joe Rogan and others, etc., which the youtube algorithm then sees that and suggests additional subject material, including pseudo science stuff and legitimate professionals such as you. Hahaha the irony! Not going to hide it, I enjoy listening to stuff like that and am also very happy when I discover channels such as yours and others that present and explain the hard evidence. But then again I’m just your regular joe watching various videos for both educational and entertainment value, no types of training or credentials whatsoever. I like to believe that I am generally relatively skeptical until I see more empirical evidence on these types of subjects. Thank you!

[@eriknelson2559]

If there had been trans-Atlantic contact, wouldn't the "Phoenicians" or "Carthaginians" or whomsoever have extracted the multi-ton copper boulders?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

It's been attributed to everyone from the Phoenicians to the Vikings. Anyone but the people who actually lived there and used copper themselves.

[@skyl4rk]

I don't think there has been enough archeological work done to be able to say something did not happen. Its OK to call it science fiction, but lets recognize that a lot of archeological interpretation is based on very meager material evidence. Many past archeological interpretations have been later found to be fiction. That is good, it is the process of science. But lets not pretend we know even a minute fraction of what happened in the past.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Do you have ANY idea how much archaeological work gets done in this country every year? It's in the THOUSANDS of sites. That's not an exaggeration. I personally worked on eight site eligibility assessments and a full village excavation in 2014 alone, and that's just me. There are crews all over the country working on sites and surveys all year long. It's a MASSIVE industrial process, in addition to an academic discipline. Now while you're right that taphonomic processes delete a lot of useful information over the centuries, we've been at this for over 100 years in the Eastern Woodlands. If some Old World culture was regularly coming to North American mining colonies in the bronze age, it would be absurd to think we wouldn't have found blatant evidence of it by now. We're discovering amazing things all the time, but some Transatlantic Copper Trade is entirely too absurd to take seriously with the massive volume of evidence we've accumulated at this point.

[@skyl4rk]

@@NathanaelFosaaen I think that prehistoric transatlantic copper trade is a good subject for a science fiction book.

[@MichaelMarko]

Yours is not the only channel started by specialists to fight bad thinking in a particular field and it’s super. In the past it seems that specialists just worked in their projects and left the bad theories, if they noticed them, to live their lives m. There was no easy access to the public like KZbin. Once in a while there might be a debunk article but then the ignorant theories were also held back by the same environmental constraints. And anyway, scientists are generally not activists and mental health outreach workers. I think that all bad thinking potentially feeds into all other bad thinking and all good thinking helps to future good thinking. You’re giving people tools. Bad or good. Aliens, unsupported theories of ancient cross Atlantic trade, etc. effects peoples minds and facilitate a self aggrandizing, predatory kind of market in nonsense and intolerance of hard logic based culture which has helped create our current epoch of collective delusional mad rage. Thanks for your efforts.

[@prometheandemise776]

This feels like the archeologist version of creationists telling biologists that biological evolution doesn't happen, like total craziness. Your content is great just subbed

[@seibertmccormick184]

This is the first time I watched any of your posts. Judging from your appearance, I expected you to be just another crank. i was pleasantly surprised. You are a very convincing debunker!

[@danpatterson8009]

I don't know why people make stuff up when reality is so much more interesting.

[@jamisojo]

They want to believe in something more exciting than what is actually still very exciting. And somebody convinces them that it might be possible. The more you don't understand legitimate archeology (which is a great deal for most of us), The greater chance there is for you to believe someone who appears knowledgeable.

[@wulfgreyhame6857]

Well, that's informed, rational and logical. So not a hope in hell of convincing a Conspiracy Theorist.

[@jamisojo]

Lol. 🤣😂

[@lezardvaleth2304]

I absolutely love how your voice just drips an octave lower with disdain the moment you say "Graham Hancock" lol

[@sgc-outdoors]

Thank you for clearing that up you make perfect sense!

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ltwig476]

Thanks for this Nathanael. I'm always looking for new research on Native America primitive tools and weapons. I throw competition atlatl and build primitive darts and throwing sticks for some of my midwestern colleagues. I really appreciate your honest research and work. There is so much bull crap out there about native America, it makes our research take much longer than it should. But after some years you start to identify what's crap and what's not really quick.

[@Jagdtyger2A]

I am curious about the prevalence o. f zonauti diseases carried by Phoenicians and ancient Irish peoples. Do you have archaeological evidence that they carried them back around 7000 BC?

[@stansbruv3169]

Yeah riiight! Put a lab coat on this guy, give him a clipboard, a monocle, an eyepatch, a lasso, a haircut and a yacht and you can see that he’s just another billionaire archeologist throwing out the ‘party line’. I’m not falling for it comrade.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

This is my favorite comment of all time.

[@samchafin4623]

You are a hero, sir!

[@__bolshebec6697]

Thank you! From the first time I read the ancient copper mining on Lake Superior I couldn’t believe it were true. (I’m no archeologist though) so I did more digging…Then follow that up with this new “theory” about Europeans coming over to the americas via the Atlantic also makes no sense (and I’m a Soc/human behavior major)…

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Yeah, the whole narrative is pretty nonsensical, but for some reason a lot of people DESPERATELY want it to be true.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." ORION LAMBDA, HELEL, Azazel, the Shining One, when Venus resurrects after dipping below the horizon 8 days in Ishtar and rises with Orion on the Spring Equinox, this is the cycle of the Phoenix, when they added 3 days to synchronize the resurrection with the Solstice. Lord, Baal, and Pan are all the same word, from the same root. Look up the name Orion Lambda, and Helel, the name of the star that sits at the eye of Orion. Orion rose in Easter during the age of Taurus, and every 584 years so did Venus at the same time, the Cycle of the Phoenix, which stepped onto the Holy Grail/Philosopher's Stone/Touchstone to self immolate after flying from India and anointing itself in Frankinscense and Myrrh. All religions stem from Astrological allegory in order to know when to plant and sow. The Magi in possession of this knowledge wore Enoch's golden horn with the Metonic Cycle inscribed on it, and were called the Lords of Time. Enoch hid his 36,525 scrolls in pillars of Gold and Emerald, and those can only be found at the Temple of Melkart in Tyre, Lebanon, just offshore from Urshu Shalom, City of Peace, aka Jerusalem, Babylon. Jesus is Saturn, the Light Bringer, from which the word Satan derives, the Constellation of Orion, which in the age of Taurus rose in Spring and fell in fall, after being stung by Scorpio the Scorpion King on his heel, the mark of the beast, dying. Then he is resurrected during Rosh Hashanah Feast of Trumpets, Resurrection of the Dead as Serpentis, the Serpent Bearer Ophiuchus. The Sun in Saturnalia is Saturn, in Spring Lucifer, as Venus and Orion meet on Ishtar or Easter. On the Summer Solstice, or St John's day it is Osiris, the Pharaoh which means Great house, Pharoahs were also called Commander in Chief. El, Fruit of Isis and Ra, Saturn, Chronos, Seth, God of Choas and Storms, Melqart, the one eyed Storm God. The central star in Orions head is called Orion Lambda, *Helel* or Azazel, the name of Lucifer, on Orion's belt is Al Nitak, the Slain One, representing the pierced side of Odin, and Rigel his Toe, Aurora, or Aurvandil, the King to Come, the star we put on our Xmas tree, the tree of Nimrod who promised to return life to a dead cypress stump, representing the resurrection of Spring when Venus dips below the horizon for 8 days. And on his knee is Saiph, the Giant's Sword. Lucifer (/ˈluːsɪfər/ 'light-bringer', corresponding to the Greek name Ἑωσφόρος, 'dawn-bringer', for the same planet) is a Latin name for the planet Venus in its morning appearances and is often used for mythological and religious figures associated with the planet. Due to the unique movements and discontinuous appearances of Venus in the sky, mythology surrounding these figures often involved a fall from the heavens to earth or the *underworld* Interpretations of a similar term in the Hebrew Bible, translated in the King James Version as "Lucifer", led to a Christian tradition of applying the name Lucifer, and its associated stories of a fall from heaven, to Satan. Most modern scholarship regards these interpretations as questionable and translates the term in the relevant Bible passage (Isaiah 14:12) as *"morning star" or "shining one"* rather than as a proper name "Lucifer" as a name for the Devil, the more common meaning in English, "Lucifer" is the rendering of the Hebrewword הֵילֵל‎ *transliteration: hêylêl; pronunciation: hay-lale* [2] in Isaiah (Isaiah 14:12) given in the King James Version of the Bible. The translators of this version took the word from the Latin Vulgate,[3] which translated הֵילֵל by the Latin word lucifer(uncapitalized),[4][5] meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".[6] As a name for the planet in its morning aspect, "Lucifer" (Light-Bringer) is a proper name and is capitalized in English. In Greco-Roman civilization, it was often personified and considered a god[7] and in some versions considered a *Son of Aurora* (the Dawn).[8] A similar name used by the Roman poet Catullus for the planet in its evening aspect is "Noctifer" (Night-Bringer).[9] It it’s a Latin word derived from the roots lux (light) and ferre (to carry). It means “light bearer” or “light bringer,” and it was not originally used in connection with the devil. Instead, it could be used multiple ways. For example, anybody carrying a torch at night was a lucifer (light bringer). It was also used as a name for the Morning Star (i.e., the planet Venus), because this is the brightest object in the sky other than the sun and the moon. As a result, Venus is the first star seen in the evening (the Evening Star) and the last star seen in the morning (the Morning Star). Venus is also known-in English-as the Day Star because it can be seen in the day. Because sight of it in the morning heralds the light of day, it was referred to by Latin speakers as the “light bringer” or lucifer. Free Mason is a transliteration of Ferre to carry, and Maison house, house of the torchbearer. Isis also bore a torch, as did her worshippers. Coronation of the Serpent King, Donald (King) John (the Baptist) Trump (GOAT) was born during a Super Wolf Blood Moon 7 days before the Summer Solstice or St John's day, to Fred Christ and Mary McKleod. 700 days before the founding of Israel. He was inaugurated on the 100th anniversary of the Bolshevik revolution and 99th anniversary of the founding of the NKVD/KGB by the mentor of Netenyahu's mentor aged 70 years 7 months and 7 days. He moved the embassy to Jerusalem on Israel's 70th anniversary and watched an annular eclipse on his 73rd birthday marking one degree in the procession of the zodiac. He keeps a book of Hitlers speeches in his bedside table called "My New Order" and lives on the 66th floor of 666ft Trump Tower, with a giant mural of Zeus on his Gold Plated penthouse ceiling. Seig Hail is the Greek Salute to Zeus. Zeus took the form of a Serpent to lay with Persophenes Godess of War, Pain and Suffering, who is represented by a dove and the five pointed star, she sits atop the Capitol building in DC. On December 25th she bares Dionysus, God of Wine, Scion of Zeus. Vatican is Greek for Sacred Serpent, named after Zeus who transforms into a serpent to lie with Persophenes, wife of Hades. Serpentis the Serpent Bearer is the 13th Sunsign of the Babylonian Zodiac and it sat opposite Orion during the 2020 winter equinox when Saturn and Jupiter conjoined in Capricorn at Saturnalia, in the brightest such event since in Beth Elam, the house of Bread (Virgo) in 7BC. And that all major terror attacks occurred on key dates of the Pagan Equinox Calendar. In the age of Taurus rose in the Spring, and fell in the fall, to be resurrected as Serpentis. Hercules is often depicted holding two serpents as a child. The only way to learn this information is to invert the zodiac. Hitler Stalin Tito Trotsky Lenin Orwell Freud Boris Johnson's Great Grandad Mustafa Ali Kemal architect of the Armenian Genocide and Trump's Grandad Baron Von Drumph come from Vienna Bavaria capital of the Holy Roman Empire. Baron is a title only bestowed by the God King Emperors and is analogous to Fiehrer, or Fuehrer. They also gave Count Dracuul his name, meaning Order of the Dragon, Dracula means *Son of the Dragon* so too *Pendragon* just like Chertoff is Russian for *Son of the Devil* King means Son, which means Scion, so translates to "Sun King". Pharoah means Great House, think Whitehouse, or Valhalla, and Pharoahs were called Commander in Chief. America means Great Serpent, or Great Pyramid, Feathered Serpent, or Spirit of Mary, just as Christopher Columbus means Annointed Dove, a symbol of Isis and Persophenes, and Maga is latin for Wizard, Klan Wizards burn the Phoenician Sun God Symbol in Illumination Ceremonies, or Pyre Rites, also known as Holo caustigmata, meaning "burnt offering" stigmata also being latin for "to pierce". Illuminati is simply a contracted form of illumination. In the age of Taurus Xmas was in Aquarius, where the Sun would die and ressurect, being a baptism of fire. John the Baptist was a Setian, as denoted by his goatskin rug, based on Capricorn being the new Sunsign of Xmas in the age of Pisces, Sidon also means Kingdom of the Fish, and the Phoenician symbol for fish was an X, which became the Chi in Chi Rho, the red cross Constantine told his troops to paint on their shields, and later the Latin Exe. As in Xmas being the baptism of the sun in Pisces. Roth means Red, Schild means Shield, being the red cross painted on the Byzantine shields, and the foundation of Christianity from Phoenician Sun God worship. Which is why you're not allowed to talk about astrology in church, which incidentally comes from the word Cirque, for Circle, as in Cirque de Soleil, or Church of the Sun, as in Stonehenges, which are designed after the Shiva Lingam, a calendar comprised of 60 6 day weeks, Saturn's Dei being the Sabbath, Saturn being the Sun reborn on the Winter solstice, aka xmas. Even the books in the Bibel are named after the Greek States of Macedonia, which itself means land/sceptre of Kings and encompasses the remnants of the Hellenic Phoenician Empire, which navigated the Atlantic beyond Gibraltar, or Gabriel's Altar (it means West) using the stars. We also have the same astrological archeological evidence throughout N America, early settlers found inscriptions to Baal on bricks in the giant mounds, which they used to line their roads, and the Templar Graves dated to 1100AD in California, perhaps thanks to the infamous Pere Reis Map

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

@@uncannyvalley2350 hold up fam. I need to do some serious drugs to get on that level.

[@uncannyvalley2350]

@@NathanaelFosaaen gaslighting, so academic Shame you tube doesn't let me link the sources, but archeologists have already confirmed this stuff in principle, so much for being an academic hey, you complain about frauds and scams, but then dismiss anything you don't want to hear, thus allowing scams to run amok, because you can't be asked addressing the evidence, valid or otherwise. Kind of makes you a hypocrite, but nice tattoos, broooo

[@uncannyvalley2350]

But you of course can explain the traces of Tabbaco and cocaine in Egyptian Mummies, and the same astrological alignment of Pyramids in both Africa and N America... of course

[@petermiesler9452]

Awesome. So refreshing, straightforward serious science. My 2nd N. Fosaaen video, won't be my last. Thank you.

[@CaptainParatos]

Thank you! Hopefully the poorly thought out transatlantic trade theory will get thoroughly and completely debunked soon. Great channel, and I am enjoying catching up on your videos!

[@brucegordon9007]

Alaska here, I'm sure you are aware of the copper atlatl points being found melting out from what were permanent snow fields in the Yukon. Here in the Copper River Basin there is a story about several men that took copper nuggets over the Mts. in the early spring when Mt. travel is possible. They ended up at Yukatat and traded the nuggets for the entire village including wives , houses,bosts the whole nine yards. The men took the copper south where they said it would make their fortune. I first heard this story in the Copper River Basin but at one time I was working on PWI and at work encountered a group from Yukatat whom verified the story. An excavation at old Gulkana village site, junction of Gulkana River and Copper River, contained "some evidence of cop-p-er smelting". Just throwing that out hoping someone interested in Native American metal use will hone in on this. Thanks, B. Gordon, Chitina ( actually a corruption of the native word for copper)

[@virginias.poston4308]

I love that you don't pull any punches and that you give clear, comprehensible explanations.

[@ΙΑΣΟΝΑΣ-β3υ]

The Minoans were the ultimate sailors who crossed an ocean and discovered the New World 4,000 years ago , In today's Canadian port of Lake Superior, Copper Harbor has been found by archaeologists, a petroglyph of a sailing ship which is similar to Minoan or Mycenaean ships, Archaeological finds in the lake show that over 500,000 tons of copper have been mined in the area for thousands of years, The natives of the time in the Canada area were in the Stone Age!

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

None of that is correct.

[@ΙΑΣΟΝΑΣ-β3υ]

@@NathanaelFosaaen The ancient philosopher Plutarch writes in detail about the travels of the Greeks to the Americas, also the native americans use many greek symbols, and have many greek words in their language, greetings friend

[@michaelgrasa3656]

All you got is that’s not correct. Oh boy I’m sad to see another Smithsonian archaeologists brainwash people like me.

[@jasondavis4385]

Hey, Skid Row called and they want their wardrobe back!

[@dinc.5225]

I'm driving past the great great lakes on my way east on the trans Canada hwy this summer and was just wondering if you could recommend any worthwhile archeological sites to visit on the way? Preferably closer to the #1 hwy on account of gas prices. Thanks Also, I'm loving the content thus far.

[@goldenwingleather1703]

🇪🇬👍 from Egypt ♥️

[@gary3270]

Very interesting! But just how will it be discovered that copper from the great lakes region made it all over Europe? Many problems with testing most likely! There are soo many unanswered questions here, keep on searching!

[@D_R757]

Lol Graham Hancock is cringe and joe Rogan should be embarrassed for giving him a platform

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Correct

[@qzh00k]

This noise came from Rogan science class? That guy is a douch by most measures.

[@D_R757]

@@qzh00k not this exact content, but the guy pushing this shit has gone on jre and said a bunch of similar bologna

[@amillionlittledingdongs6768]

The indoctrination is so deep that educated people think they’re being objective. As a lay person, I see something like what happened to Father Crespi and I think “sus.” What’s your take?

[@Chellebelle121]

Isn’t he the guy who said that the meltwater pulse 1A and 1B being responsible for Noah’s Flood and the destruction of Atlantis? He said it was overnight, but each one took several centuries, and occurred gradually. It’s very interesting to wonder about, but I think his statements are very misleading.

[@theotherartifactstoa776]

I love your videos bro but I think we disagree about "pseudo archaeology" unless you agree that there is no separation between pseudo archaeology and accepted archaeology. We definitely disagree about Graham Hancock. His theories seem a little out there and I definitely don't agree with all of them but they are fact based and your profession is not. The Younger Dryas event happened. Most scholars agree. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence of people connected by symbolism as well as lifestyle in North America and Northern Eurasia. The problem is that your profession does not operate like any other science. Digs that are acceptable in Europe are not ok here. As a professional you would lose credibility amongst your peers if you took out another shovel full of dirt after you reached "Clovis" period artifacts and said you found something man made. This isn't alarming to you? A science that is governed by a select group of people who destroy the careers of any peers who dare defy their theories. Your profession is guilty of exactly what you accuse Graham Hancock of. You yourself are making videos for the purpose of saving society from misinformation and you are doing it using evidence limited to what others in your field have chosen to accept. I'm not sure where you study but here in Kentucky your peers are willfully excluding information. Here are the the biggest things your profession exclude and I can very easily prove as a regular guy who excavates for development purposes. First of all portable rock art is a real thing. Countless rocks in North America very clearly have faces on them just like they do in Northern Europe. Coincidence only goes so far and these are countless across both continents. Your profession and it's followers in the collector community use pareidolia as an excuse but the amount of rocks around here with very clear human faces on them is staggering and I myself can prove that they are in fact man made. European archaeologist Jan Van Es is the best known professional to excavate these lower and middle paleolithic sites in Europe that are connected to Neanderthal and Homoerectus. Man has been here in great numbers for a lot longer than your profession wants to admit. At least one human cousin species lived here. Scholars in your profession operate differently than any other science especially in North America where a hierarchy decides what is "accepted" information and any scepticism is career suicide for professionals like yourself. A science that opposes criticism to the point of crippling the scientific method is not a science at all. It's a doctrine! Take the time to watch my videos. Most are creek finds and can't be accepted as archaeological evidence but some are from my job sites. I have worked in the Lexington Kentucky and Cincinnati Ohio areas for 23 years. I have seen what's in the ground and it doesn't match what your books tell me. I can show anybody this any time in my back yard on the Licking River but as an example I'm going to tell you about something and even if you don't spend the time to watch my videos I dare you to respond to this comment and challenge me because the proof is in the ground and I can destroy the credibility of any scholar that denies it any time. I'm working at a site right now that will easily prove I'm right. When I first came to this site it was a brand new development on what was a tobacco field for hundreds of years prior. The first day there I found a beautiful point that your profession would label early Archaic. A 5 1/2" stemmed point. It was laying on the surface at my first landmark to start the project so my assumption is that this 6000+ year old point came from somewhere out of the ground no deeper than 30" assuming this is basically the depth of soil disturbed by farming equipment. When I started removing soil at about 6' down I started hitting hundreds of these very artifacts that I'm talking about that your profession denies, cobble tools that would exactly fall under the catagory of portable rock art anywhere else in the world except the Americas, as well as bone tools worked into the same symbolism and motifs as the rocks. I even find wood. Look at my profile picture. That's a point made from a regular old rock that neither your profession or the collectors would accept as being a point but its hafted onto a short stick with the sinew still on it. The Ordovician geological area here is full of marine fossils that some group at some point found lots of uses for. These artifacts pollute our creeks in the Ohio River Valley but your profession has denied these artifacts to the point that you professionals are in fact guilty of exactly what you accuse Graham Hancock of which is brainwashing the public with bad information. The collector community is so brainwashed that the simple human function of sight has been altered to the point that people can't see reality because their brain refuses to process what their eyes see. That's being brainwashed plain and simple. My ground finds have not been eroded by water and they are a lot more obvious than creek finds. My challenge to you is to watch one of my videos and tell me that these items are not man made. If you agree that they are I'd love to hear your opinion about who made them and how they ended up at least 4' deeper in the ground than an archaic point. Your mission is to use facts to present evidence that pseudoscience is wrong but you don't include all the evidence. I'm pert of a fastly growing community of people who see past your profession's bullshit. I'm not trying to get views by doing this. My youtube channel isn't very popular but my Facebook group "The Other Artifacts" is growing like wild fire. We don't claim to be scientists and we aren't telling people how to think like you are. We are presenting evidence that you are withholding from the public. If you want to wage war on what you call "psuedoscience" then I challenge you to start here. Join my group or the few others that are rapidly growing on social media and do it. If not then either the purpose of your channel is null and void or you are in fact in search of the truth as someone in your profession should be and you absolutely must consider the possibility that your bullshit Clovis first theory as well as anything else presented by modern science is complete horse shit

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Most of that was incorrect. Nobody thinks "Clovis First" is legit anymore, and we haven't for over 20 years. We dig past Clovis all the time. Cactus Hill, Topper, Meadowcroft, and Galt are all Pre-Clovis sites. So that whole argument is a strawman. Now as to your own videos, some of those dart points are legit. but your "battle axe" is a tested tab at best, and that's being generous. It shows no signs of systematic reduction that characterizes lithic technology. It's just a rock. The other "art" rocks you've got up top are geological, and typical of karst environments like Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama. They're not made by people. I did see a nice bone fragment with pretty aggressive rodent gnawing on it though. Looks like a deer pelvis from the angles I was able to see. Nice try though.

[@theotherartifactstoa776]

@@NathanaelFosaaen I'll take the information you are delivering as an advancement of your field but you are wrong about these rocks. Nothing personal. I realize that you study these things in scientific context and I'm not trying to be a dick but I have sprayed more dirt off my boots than you will sift through in your entire career. I move more dirt on an average day than an archaeologist does in a career. I realize my digging and yours is different but as an example I'm on a project right now that has had 3' of soul removed from the top. After a few good rains what remains is every rock that was lying on the ground whenever that layer was the ground. I can walk across 7 acres of it right now. Not only are there way too many face profiles and birds to be a coincidence, I find the small cobbles and sanding stones sitting right on top of unfinished stones. You need to look into soft stone artifacts more. Of course there are no tool marks just like any other legitimate carving on soft stone. The reef fossils here were easy to work and they had a way to heat treat them to the point that they are almost indestructible. Our Facebook group has people from here, Germany, and Brian finding exactly the same rocks

[@theotherartifactstoa776]

@@NathanaelFosaaen also the sites you mentioned are a perfect example of this flaw in the system in the archaeological community. All of those scientists were hit with hard scrutiny from their peers and some of the well to do's still won't accept it. If the Clovis first theory is out the window as you say it is now then I believe the Clovis first mentality is alive and well still today. You have spent the time to learn your profession going to school and reading for countless hours and I respect the hell out of that and I understand how beneficial to the world today it is to learn about the past. You have my dream job but truthfully I see way more of what's in the ground than you do. I'm digging every day in an amazing place. If scientists would get off their high horse and realize that regular people are ten times as likely to discover something cool than they are and take people seriously it would be way better than the system in place today. Then taking your knowledge and applying it in labs and discussion groups would be more beneficial as well. The entire country is a prehistoric site. Powerful nations came and went many times. What I do for a living ruins a chance at what you do for a living. Many tines construction workers take a real chance at losing their job when they report a site. Most of the time they find out that they took that chance for nothing

[@theotherartifactstoa776]

@@NathanaelFosaaen you seem like a somewhat down to Earth kind of guy and open minded. That's rare for your profession and exactly what your profession needs. I'm an average guy and I can tell you first hand the reason for the rise of psuedoscience. Guys like me are seeing shit with their own eyes and people with an education are telling us that we are wrong. That makes people non believers in science. This trend has caused people like me to make uneducated assumptions to explain what we are seeing. Even though we may not be right, we value these opinions more than the blatant lie that we are told to believe by professionals. Your education is the most valuable rescourse we have to figure out what happened in the past but the amount of time required indoors to do your job best does not allow for much discovery time. People like who are exposed to what's in the ground daily and pay attention to these things are also a valuable rescourse. I'm not out here digging for recognition for anything, I'm curious. Nobody knows the construction worker's name that discovered anything and he doesn't care because he didn't report it for that reason. I am out here daily making it impossible for you to do your job correctly when I disturb soil. If I'm willing to have my job shut down to confirm or deny weather or not I'm in the process of destroying something that can't be replaced then I'm not reporting to get my name in the paper. If a guy like you got on a first name basis with guys like me in his geographical area of study he could really make a difference. I have seen dirt for 22 years. I can easily see some things people don't notice in a pile of dirt. I may not know all the terminology but I know what the ground is and isn't supposed to look like in a large portion of two states. For example if I'm called to dig a ditch in Frankfort I'm gonna be hit lots of limestone quick. If I'm digging in Lexington I know I'm gonna hit water. It goes beyond that too. When I'm scooping out piles of oddly shaped rocks that come from a fossil bed that should be beneath the layer of rock I'm busting up I know they didn't get there on their own. When I notice that not just some of them but all of them have clearly defined human faces on them any direction you turn them then I know for a fact that a human made them. The problem bus that nobody who has put the time and money into being in your position is willing to take a make you or break you risk to apply that education to get real answers. I don't get answers so then the uneducated assumptions begin. Look at what I'm finding with a true open mind. You paid a lot of money and spent a lot of time to be told that it isn't there so I understand why you can't see it right now but if you look at these rocks with fully functional human eyes not thinking about lithics knowledge you will see that they are in fact man made. Then it's up to you to figure out who, how, and when. It's not a coincidence that so many people can see artwork that some people can't. The flaw in the human eye is always what we can't see rather than what we can. Some day this story will come to light. There is just too much evidence. For now you and I both are just making it harder for people to get the answers in the future

[@CosmosArchipelago]

@@theotherartifactstoa776 No he seems like an absolute douchebag. lmao

[@FacesintheStone]

Why did I find a bunch of Egyptian style Artifacts like Totems of Horus and eyes just like the ones that the Egyptian‘s have here in Graham North Carolina right next to an Indian mound which is adjacent to a gigantic pile of stone statues the size of cars? There’s something going on Nathaniel, there’s something happening

[@jacobshort6528]

No, there's not something happening. Not right now. Something just happens to have happened right there a very long time ago. That sounds like a burial mound full of artifacts. Please alert your local archeological society, and stop randomly digging into it.

[@FacesintheStone]

@@jacobshort6528 The very first thing I did was alert my state and local archaeological teams, once they decided that it wasn’t even worth a look I decided to contact local indigenous American tribe. I started this three months ago and now have 330 subscribers trying to save an ancient site who no one seems to give a shit about. Don’t tell me what to do

[@FacesintheStone]

It’s like, I don’t believe that anything that you’re doing is with real Artifacts… But I need you to stop it. That’s the same vitriol my state archaeologist told me. None of these are real, they’re all just rocks but we need you to quit. Ha ha ha you guys got a pull out of your indoctrination and use your own brain.

[@FacesintheStone]

Maybe for national indigenous peoples day you can pluck it out.

[@FacesintheStone]

What is happening is what just happened in the comments above. People like you guys dismissing and shitting on people who are actually wanting to know (and share) the truth.

[@FruitBruteIII]

This is awesome and more videos like this need to be seen! Graham Hancock and Zechariah sitchin and David Icke and all of those goofballs need to be shown for what they are... Goofballs. This needs to be the norm.

[@Abrxs365]

Also why didn't they bring and share their favorite foods?

[@johnclark5695]

Good presentation. Unfortunately pseudo-science has a real following, I find it most refreshing that someone takes the time to debunk at least some of the nonsense that is presented as science/fact. Thanks..j

[@talyn3932]

I'm a fan. Subscribed. I came here thinking you were going to be peddling that crap, not debunking it. I am so glad I was wrong. :)

[@christianbuczko1481]

Graham hancock just talks complete bollocks.

[@muddbear6410]

Man listen to the wisdom of Solomon "there is nothing new under the sun." Would you really be able to tell the difference if it was atlanteans mining that copper instead of Egyptians? After all in the earliest interviews with the Egyptian priests, THEY said they were a colony of the previous global civilization we typically refer to as Atlantis. I feel confident in saying the previous global civilization would've had plenty of need for copper and would have mined it from wherever they could, like the great lakes

[@jacobshort6528]

Is there any truth to what I read in National Geographic magazine, about how King Tutankhamun's personal dagger has a sliver hilt that is naturally alloyed with Michigan copper?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

None.

[@supabass4003]

@@NathanaelFosaaen How is National Geographic able to print this as fact? Assuming this is true, National Geographic might aswell be ancient aliens.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

@@supabass4003 National Geographic is not subject to a review process. That's the difference between popular and scholarly sources.

[@ironcladranchandforge7292]

Oh wow!! I'm subscribing to you!! Awesome video.

[@shaungonzales7918]

I can't speak to this specifically, but a Roman trireme was discovered underwater near Brazil with wine amphorae and other stuff. The local government had buried it so they would not have to rewrite the discovery of Brazil. Stuff like that does happen. From what I've read before the local inhabitants add spoken of people from a distance away having mined the copper and then left. From what I've heard as well the mining techniques seemed to be too advanced for the local culture.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

If governments wanted to bury evidence that people had made it to America before Columbus, why didn't they try to cover up l'anse aux meadows? Seems like a dumb thing to try to cover up.

[@WaterKreature]

U just got another sub.. keep up the great work man

[@janeth4121]

great to see an actual scientist on youtube!!!

[@outerspace83]

Consider this more a follow up question than a disagreement: I'm 100% with you on everything except the last bit about disease. While the Atlantic was a strong barrier, the Bering Sea wasn't. We have genetic evidence of mid and late holocene gene flow from North America to East Asia, we have occasional Chinese bronze artifacts in Alaska, we have an entire language family straddling both coasts. If it was possible for there to be more or less constant low level contact in the Arctic without causing Eurasian diseases to spread to the Americas, couldn't there conceivably been low level contact across the Atlantic as well? Not that there's any evidence for it that isn't more easily explained by other means...

[@palladini9718]

I once watched a TV show, many years ago, where a Guy was sitting in a Mine on Manitoulin Island. This guy could tell where metals came from. He said every Bronze age item he has tested, all the copper came from that mine.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Yeah, that Guy(tm) was dead wrong.

[@susanpatterson7088]

I really like the straight information you give me. Thank you!

[@vintages10]

Thank you for the video. Can you get the audio cleared up? Thanks again

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

nope.

[@brotherbrovet1881]

@Nathaniel fosaaen, ever spent time at these ancient mines? The Kewaunee peninsula is insane. It's not "Northern Michigan ". It's the Upper Penninsula. Northern Michigan is the 4 fingertips of the mitten of the lower peninsula I suggest visiting these ancient mining sites.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

I worked up there last year.

[@Blessd-savingrace]

Just subbed last night to your channel!! I appreciate fact you deal w FACTS NOT WHAT we been told!! THANK YOU & God Bless

[@ahlkazar7227]

Always happy to see people debunking these outrageous claims. I'm a resident of the Keweenaw Peninsula and graduated with a history degree from MTU. I was lucky enough to have classes with Larry Lankton and Patrick Martin (sorry about Drier). My archeological experiance is mainly industrial with two summer field schools at the Cliff Mine site as well as experimental with wood hardening and charcoal making projects. I was heavily exposed to the theories by locals and it continues to be very pervasive, especially with older locals. Hopefully people continue to spread actually sourced arguments. The history of the great lakes basin is great enough and doesn't need embellishment.

[@anastasiusmpulassikis8897]

How do you explain the presence of Haplogroup X (mtDNA) in the indigenous peoples of North America?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

In North America it's X2a and everywhere in central eurasia that has X2 isnt ancestral to X2a. We have individuals like the Ancient One in the pacific northwest who are over 8000 years old that belong to the X group.

[@staresce]

I know copper mining as it is done today is very harmful to the environment especially the water and soil. Can you explain how the Ancient people mined copper ? I would be very interested to know if they had a gentler safer method that they used back then.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

We talk about that in my interview with David Pompeani.

[@NorthernKitty]

The "Royale" in Isle Royale is pronounced "royul" not "roy-al". I know, everyone want to pronounce it like "Casino Royale"... but, there it is. 😋

[@mingching2480]

I believe that humankind have been traversing the oceans for centuries maybe thousands of years ago even before even native Americans crossed the Bering strait supposedly.

[@bigtsperspective5831]

Humans have been doing human things for millions of years . It’s amazing how we get around .

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Humans haven't even been fully human for millions of years.

[@bigtsperspective5831]

@@NathanaelFosaaen That we can show for. Archeologists keep finding and re evaluating the human time line . Just think about it they find things older and older all the time . Never mind The fact that time is only a tool an in no way fixed.

[@christianbuczko1481]

Btw, about disease and dating, theres some evidence turned up that a case of syphalis occurred in the uk BEFORE 1492. Thats contrary to the fact that disease came from the americas. Its a case thats still unexplained, i suspect the vikings came back with it pre 1492 as i cannot think of another way that happened, and the area it was found is the north east uk coast which had viking contact before 1066 and maybe still had norse connections a few hundred years later when the case occurred. (That would be around the time they were in the area or not too long afterward so could be an infection chain from viking exploration of the usa).

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

I hadn't read that. I'm not bioanth, but depending on the line of evidence, it also might not actually be syphilis. It could be something else that leaves similar traces. Time will tell.

[@christianbuczko1481]

@@NathanaelFosaaen true, but that doesnt help the situation, it just extends the mystery into what the hell killed them. I find this idea less likely than a possible chain of evidence that suggests its possible. Its occams razor basically.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Which date is it exactly? It might have arrived via Greenland, although that would imply a rather unlikely sequence of events: i.e. Inuit getting the illness from other Native Americans (Inuits are a relatively recent arrival to North America, their origin is in NE Asia) in spite of isolation (from the previous inhabitants known as Tuniit?), passing it to Norse in Greenland and these to other Norse who would reach "NE Britain" (where exactly?, and what a fancy way of saying "Scotland" or maybe "Orkney and Shetland islands", as you mention they are Norse-related areas). In any case it'd be more conclusive if we had data of ancient Greenlander (Norse) or Icelander similar cases. An out of place artifact is never enough to build a prehistoric theory, it may be just a case of wrong dating or wrong identification, etc.

[@christianbuczko1481]

@@LuisAldamiz from memory they thought it dated from the 1300's but its some time since i saw that documentary.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@christianbuczko1481 - That'd be a plausible timeline for a Viking import from Greenland indeed, assuming it's indeed syphilis and not something else.

[@Pllatinum1]

The concept itself is very seductive. Thank you for helping to clear it up.

[@dopedreamz]

Hey man, I live in st. Lawrence county NY. My family didn’t come here. We have always lived here. Family tradition says we worker closely with the Mohawk to survive here before colonization.we were river people who shuttled goods on the St. Lawrence. My family were with ‘viking’ explorers the natives were told we were Danish and our family were called Dennis. When colonization started we moved into the Adirondacks and became timber workers, still riding the rivers our ancestors traveled but now trading lumber.

[@jamisojo]

@dopedreamz. It sounds like you are talking about dreams fueled by dope. Pretty hard to take you seriously. You didn't even tell us whether you were a native American Indian, or white, or black, or latin? "always here" is very vague. Do you have any physical evidence of anything?

[@dopedreamz]

@@jamisojo ok, J jamberson, sounds like you’ve been jamming your son too much. we are danish who looted the east coast of England and Scotland for about a thousand years until the food or the woman made us stay in Scotland, I. Know we have been here since 1740 since a local map records the location of my family’s homestead, I also have military service documents, deeds, local Native American history family history.

[@REDCEDAR7]

To add to your argument. How the heck would Egyptians cross the Atlantic and 1500 km inland and return to Egypt. That’s crazy.

[@neverhungryagain2187]

Why couldn’t they

[@jamisojo]

@@neverhungryagain2187 because real life is not like in the movies.

[@neverhungryagain2187]

@@jamisojo yea right

[@anulfadventures]

I think I read where the name of Cyprus could derive from somebody's word for copper. So why go all the way to Michigan?

[@nmarbletoe8210]

They went to the UK for tin...

[@davidm9214]

Wow I didn't realize there was a copper rabbit hole to get lost in 🤯

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Neither did I until I made a video about the Old Copper Complex and started getting bombarded with tinfoil hat comments.

[@davidm9214]

@@NathanaelFosaaen wasn't there a big drop in use of copper 3 thousand years ago? . Maybe it was disease that stopped it. New people took over after? New disease wiped out more again?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

3000 years ago exchange networks developed that allowed for the import of high quality cherts. At that point it became more effective to make decorative and status items and trade those out for toolstone. you can make a chert knife or spear blade in about 20 minutes if you know what you're about, but copper takes days to make into tools and it's not any more effective than the chipped stone equivalents. Leather working tools continued to be made out of copper because they were more effective than their bone equivalents.

[@Hopeless_and_Forlorn]

I am so confused. I was born with a grooved tool. Does that mean my ancestors were Egyptian?

[@cheapvodka9942]

yup