Ancient Germanic / Pre-Norse Deities

[@spacecardinal]

Interesting. Thank you.

[@jeffreywolf8104]

Thank you. Great information.

[@lphoogenboom]

Build it and they will come. you say you have no follower base, but I find this very interesting. Surely if you make more videos people will stick around and others wil join. I would love to learn more about the germanian and norse pantheon.

[@simongrozov1801]

“I’m not an ancient Roman nationalist by any means” is probably the most 21st-century thing to say.

[@BaileyJPope]

No one assumes you’re a good person anymore, gotta preface everything before the simple-folk brand you lol

[@astridchaote]

This is fascinating. Thanks for unpacking all of this!

[@rolandderuiter7001]

Great video, thanks

[@JoaoPedro-vc3no]

Great video, man!

[@BaileyJPope]

Really appreciate that man!

[@twicebittenthasme5545]

Interesting and informative! Looking forward to more... Thank you for sharing this.

[@kiki.arielscrystalco]

This was very interesting and I really enjoy listening to you speak! Look forward to more videos. Thanks Bailey!

[@BaileyJPope]

Many thanks for the warm compliment!

[@Robrecht_van_Bethune]

Nice vid. Fury or being furious in the Flemish or Dutch tong means "woedend", and woensdag is the third day of the week, both are related to Wuodan/Wodan. Also Freija is the godess of love and fertility, which is also Freyr his domain, in Dutch/Flemish the word "vrijen" means hugging, kissing, making love. Like Donar/ Thor is related to donder/thunder. I like those connections. It's fascinating.

[@BaileyJPope]

Seems there's more cognates like those in the modern Scandanavian languages than in the other Germanic languages (which makes total sense). Thanks for sharing!

[@Robrecht_van_Bethune]

@@BaileyJPope I don't know which has more cognates, it seems both have a lot of them 😏

[@bencopeland3560]

It’s curious that Tacitus didn’t perceive (or think worthy of mentioning) that Wothanaz occupied the role of sky father in addition to psychopomp.

[@bencopeland3560]

@Stirgid Lanathiel yeah, the question you’re alluding to is way beyond my level of expertise. I definitely like the cleanliness of Tywaz (incidentally, my iPhone tried to autocorrect that as “Tuesday’s” - which I love) as skyfather but I defer to the experts who say that’s just a Germanic linguistic cognate oddity and that Wothanaz was always the man. Who knows though. I will say, the origins of Wothanaz are one of the top mysteries of IE religions for me. Such a strange and remarkable deity.

[@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533]

Týr, son.

[@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533]

@Stirgid Lanathiel Dyeus (PIE) = Tywaz (GMC) = Týr/Tir/Tiw (ON-IS/OE) = Tyr (MDRN)

[@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533]

@Stirgid Lanathiel I'm showing the lineage. And lose that attitude

[@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533]

@Stirgid Lanathiel I don't know how I'm being "pedantic". Stop trying to act smart with big words already. You need to drop the attitude. And Týr is the correct name, Tywaz is reconstructed.

[@Boudicaisback]

Great video 👍

[@buttered--toast]

great information and you're super easy to listen to!! germanic deities are hard to learn about to me, since their culture didn't write much down. this video compiled everything and made it super easy to digest. you're doing great dude :)

[@BaileyJPope]

I made myself retain the primary sources for quite some time so that I could present it in a coherent way. So I thoroughly appreciate your comment, Abigail!

[@willemdebatavier7485]

Interesting.A lot of names I never heard of. Tacitus only mentioned Roman names. Attending school in the fiftees our history teacher only mentioned Wodan as the upper god, Donar and Frija the female god of fertlity. Two days of the week are named after these gods. Donar = Donnerstag, Frija=Freitag.

[@JohnJigsaw420]

In English four days of the week are from the gods: Tiw = Tuesday Woden = Wednesday Thunor = Thursday Frige = Friday

[@danieldavis6288]

There's debate about Friga versus Frija but yeah

[@MrRabiddogg]

@@JohnJigsaw420 Saturn = Saturday.

[@JohnJigsaw420]

@@MrRabiddogg i was talking about the germanic gods lol sunday and monday could be lesser known gods too but saturday is the only non germanic god

[@MrRabiddogg]

@@JohnJigsaw420 It isn't known is Saturn was or wasn't a Germanic god. In the Roman world he was a Titan, or an Elder God. If the Germanic and Olympiad mythologies have any connections, Saturn would be a Vanir deity and we do not know much about them in the modern world. The fact that the Saxons chose to keep it might be telling as they still practiced the old faith when they conquered England. Sunday and Monday do align to the Roman to Latin Change. Sol in Latin becomes Sunna in German and Luna becomes Mani which then becomes Moon. (I don't have the proper afflictions as I'm not sure how to do that). So at least 6 of the day names are based on German gods. 1 on perhaps a Proto-European common deity but we really do not know.

[@TheWitchyHomestead]

Now that I do have a base. I think this subject is still cool to expand on.

[@ShayneStatic]

Hey bud, I really enjoyed the video and appreciate the time and effort you put into it. Keep up the good work!

[@BaileyJPope]

Thank you for the kind words man!

[@mambojambo4870]

I will follow your career with great interest

[@abubacz06]

Awesome video! I’m glad KZbin recommended this to me. I also appreciate your Classical Latin. 😄

[@BaileyJPope]

Glad to hear my Latin studies isn’t totally worthless 😆

[@lantzeerie2481]

cool video. comfy to listen to. also informative

[@BaileyJPope]

3 compliments in one comment? It's my lucky day lol thank you!!

[@bigfootisjustreallyshy]

Solid video subscribed.

[@matthewwolf2054]

Nicely done.

[@QockNobblr]

Odin/Oden or ᛟᚦᛁᚾ/ᛟᚦᛖᚾ the root word of his name is odr or ᛟᚦᚱ which is a mental state that is kinda means fury, inspiration and ecastasy. In the poem in the havamal that details his sacrifice of himself to himself on yggdrasil he uses the line "from what roots rises to [asgard]. None had refreshed me with food or drink. I peered right down in the deep. *Screaming I lifted the roots,* then I fell back from thence." it shows how he is often a man of said odr (pronounced oethr). His inspiration/fury/ecstasy leads him to his adventures and quests for knowledge and wisdom.

[@trav300027]

Nice video! Thanks

[@marthinarauhut1876]

This was great, thanks

[@Bjorn_Algiz]

Interesting and informative 👍

[@JourneyIntoAnimism]

Fascinating how beliefs evolved!

[@lucasehrenhaus9993]

*(For Tacitus ask any Italians on how to pronounce it, I believe you might arrive to a different result.)

[@highlit5358]

informative

[@haasklaw764]

Where does one even start getting into this stuff? Is there an essential reading list? Would love to learn about my ancestors!

[@BaileyJPope]

Unfortunately there's not an extensive list of resources for this time period. Caesar's work on the Gallic Wars is the earliest major source we have, but in truth he gives us next to nothing. Tacitus's work on Germania is the next best written source (which is mainly what this video referenced). Other than that, etymology and archaeology are about all we have for this topic. There's more historical info available for the Germanic deities during the Migration Period but that's a few hundred years after this setting

[@kingsleyzvikaramba7662]

Subscribing for Indo-European lore. Please keep it coming

[@BaileyJPope]

I’m working on a new one, stay tuned Kingsley

[@dirlexx9771]

In your studies did you ever come across the Greeks or Romans equating the hebrew god, Yaweh, with a greco roman counterpart? Such as Saturn or another? Also can you talk about mystery religions please.

[@BaileyJPope]

I don't believe the name "YHWH" has ever been itself equated with a Greco-Roman deity (at least from what I've read), BUT I think I've seen the Phoenician god "El" (which is very similar to the Hebrew God) be equated to Kronos/Saturn. So that might be the best guess we have, but take that opinion lightly lol

[@shreyvaghela3963]

Great. I am an indian. Intrested in other indo euro tradition. So thank you

[@BaileyJPope]

Glad you found it worthy of your time!

[@gg2fan]

Western and Indian culture is so different, it's wild to think they came from the same common ancestor even thousands of years ago

[@yakuzzi35]

Oh KZbin... You know me so well

[@soggmeisterlasagnagarfield]

I think most of the their religious beliefs were associated with or was the predecessor of the occult given occultism did emerge from the area around modern day Germany.

[@escobarlisle6007]

The occult has nothing to do with norse or germanic witchcraft, there is no devil in paganism, the occult just uses old religion gods as demons to discredit pre Christian religions

[@mineamagnusson5406]

Mercurius is most probably tyr, from almost forgotten during snorre&Saxo. He become both Tor and Oden. But he Still had the order in ting&war. tiwaz. Wotan/Odin come lager, 1 Day later. Probably in dateorder, tiwas-thyor/last wargod Wotan .

[@MrRabiddogg]

Ironically enough, the Spartans, who claim ancestry from Hercules came from the lineage of the Dorian Greeks. Given the etymology of the D to the TH that is an interesting match.

[@BaileyJPope]

That's actually a really interesting point. Snorri Sturluson claimed the gods of the Norse originally came from Troy in his preface of the Prose Edda. So that could be a viable theory considering the connections.

[@MrRabiddogg]

@@BaileyJPope My thought on this is that at the least the Senior or elder Gods were from the original pantheon. Hence Deus and related being found literally everywhere in the PIE language. Their stories, as most oral traditions, were modified slightly through the ages for various reasons and eventually came to us as completely different stories. Rita Louise does a really good job explaining this in ET. Chronicles. the Serpent Brothers did a podcast about 2 weeks ago with an Iroquois legend keeper and they even had a Thunder god running around killing giants. There really is more to the past then our fairly young brains can understand.

[@MrRabiddogg]

@@BaileyJPope one has to wonder where the original PIE center was. If Greek mythology about the Centaurs being the teachers of the Heroes and their home land was in Scythia then Asia Minor is accurate. Troy, known for horses, would make a good spot for the PIE capital to be. Or the Hittites maybe.

[@BaileyJPope]

@@MrRabiddogg The Kurgan hypothesis is still pretty popular when it comes to the center of the PIE people (pre-migration). North of the Black Sea is a suitable candidate in my opinion, considering your Scythian comment among other things like linguistic evidence (Lithuanian and the Hittite language are two of the closest to the original PIE, the Black Sea is directly between both for example). Of course, the Asia Minor theory is still a very credible one too

[@MrRabiddogg]

@@BaileyJPope The theory I speak of was not my own. I listen to a podcast called the History of the English language, which starts with the PIE language group and the host follows historical events using the language as a guide. He surmised that some of the PIE came through Asia minor and others through the North. He provides notes etc. for his assertion that made sense.

[@Ka0s]

If be interested to see how this ties in with Celtic Gods.

[@wpBill]

Do more vids G

[@BaileyJPope]

Man I'm trying, but working 50+ a week has me braindead much of the time

[@dimonik12]

Why Tacitus but not Ceasar? With the hard C?

[@BaileyJPope]

Simply put, Caesar's pronunciation is too engrained in our culture. If I were to say "Kaiser" it might confuse people. Also I'm a self-aware hypocrite lol

[@saxogatley1166]

If you look at more obscure historical sources (like Olaus Magnus, and Richard Verstegan), Woden is 100% a war god. His names mean’s fury, he has warrior cults, and is compared to Mars. Also I’m not a believer in Tyr being the “chieftain of the gods”. The only evidence is etymology, and that’s not something so firm that you can rely on only it. I think there’s MUCH bigger evidence that Thor, if any god, was the “chieftain of the gods”. He’s a storm god that slays monsters and has a serpent rival, which is common in many Indo-Europeans faiths for the leader (Zeus, Indra, etc). Then there’s sources that say as much (Like Olaus Magnus & Richard Verstegen, neither of whom were influenced by the Odin-centric Eddas (they weren’t popular during the 16th and early 17th centuries)). Plus the numerous place names, and even in the Eddas Thor gets a massive chunk of screen time. If Othin usurped any deity, it was 100% Thor.

[@kailander2059]

I have subscribed for the sole purpose of eventual germanic pagan knowledge.

[@johnd5574]

I've never heard this pronunciation of Tacitus, it's quite jarring. Your Norse pronunciations are mostly on point, but dang. It's most commonly pronounced as "Tass-i-tuss".

[@BaileyJPope]

Yeah I use the classical Latin pronunciation (how it would have sounded in the 1st century) but most people use the more modern version. In classical Latin, the "c" in the middle of the word was pronounced as "k". But you're right, it is kind of jarring lol

[@johnd5574]

@@BaileyJPope Oh, that’s interesting… so, like Caesar which would’ve been “Kaiser” in Latin before it was Anglicized?

[@BaileyJPope]

@@johnd5574 Precisely! Which is why the Germans later adopted that word to mean "Emperor." i.e. Kaiser Wilhelm means Emperor Wilhelm, the title comes from the Latin pronunciation of Caesar.

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

The dispute goes way back. Is Celtic pronounced 'Seltic' or 'Keltic'? Caesar probably would have said the latter, but we aren't Caesar, so that proves nothing. Read about it here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Celts

[@liamengle2563]

Subscribing for more germanic mythology.

[@briananderson2219]

At a minimum it will explain Remus and Romulus

[@bhight100]

Mercury was the Roman god of War and victory, Odin was not the god of war and victory, he was the god of wisdom and battle frenzy. Tiwas was the god of war and victory.

[@BaileyJPope]

Admittedly, I don't have extensive knowledge on Roman deities. But I do know Mars was the god of war in their pantheon, and I believe they had a separate deity for victory. Mars seems to be more of a "destruction" figure in general, which is why scholars generally group him with Tiwaz. Of course, the reality is much more complex but I kept it simple just for this video

[@Fritz999]

As far as I'm concerned, the Germanic Gods are at least as valid as as any others then and now. Such as the god of the Bible, Quran, and others. The god of the Bible had to be forced on the Germanic people. Not a good reason to accept and worship it.

[@MoiLiberty]

These gods, are principalities, and are more like spirits without a body. Think of hunger. Hunger can possess people and animals, for a time. It has it's own telos, it's own aim. Hunger itself cannot die. So it's like a god. There are a lot of gods before Christ came and everything changed. All these false gods were exorcised by God, by his Word, Jesus Christ.