Ancient Greek weapons and armor Ft. Overly Sarcastic Productions

A very detailed look into ancient Greek weapons and armor, how they were made, how effective they were, and where they fit in regarding Greek history. Specifically focusing on the Hoplon also known as the aspis, the spear, Xiphos and Linothorax, with a very special guest collaboration, Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions!
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The oldest STEEL sword in the world: • The oldest STEEL sword...
Underappretiated Historical Weapons, the SPEAR: • Underappreciated Histo...
Thrand's video testing a properly made bronze sword: • Bronze Sword Cuts Stee...
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[@Thrand11]

Great video Shad and Thanks for mentioning my work with bronze weapons. Neil Burridge makes some awesome historically accurate bronze swords, axes and spears I have to give him full credit for the performance of the swords in my videos.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

Honestly, I think the myth that bronze weapons were garbage came from someone trying to make a arming sword length blade out of bronze. I rember reading somewhere after a certain length, bronze runs into issues.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

What is the point of training swords men if the longest sword you can produce is the size of a spearhead?

[@HandleMyBallsYouTube]

@@PJDAltamirus0425 The point is that you can't carry two spears, the sword in this context is definetly a backup weapon, in case you lose your spear, or are in a situation where a spear becomes unwieldy you still need to be able to defend yourself, a sword is a very efficient weapon in this regard. The reasoning behind the idea is the same as modern infantry officers carrying pistols, while they don't have the range, accuracy, rate of fire or power of an assault rifle, they are a small and compact weapon that doesn't add too much to overall weight of the soldiers equipment, and takes very little space, therefore making a perfect emergency / backup weapon, swords much like pistols are also ideal for self defense in a civilian environment, and they are also very good in confined spaces.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

You miss my point. I this period, we have nothing to indicate that swords were status weapons like in later periods. The spears were double pointed, so really every hoplite was walking around with backup spearhead if the first was broken off. Most duels in the vases are depicting two spearmen going at each other and archaeological record so far indicates that arming sword length bronze swords were a minority. In later eras, we have yet to find double pointed spears and these eras have more longer, stronger swords and more depictions of sword play. @@HandleMyBallsKZbin

[@fionafiona1146]

@@PJDAltamirus0425 If you are stuck in a Shealdwall you might also appreciate a nimble weapon on the scale of antique Greek/roman swords.

[@OverlySarcasticProductions]

I'm so happy with how well this turned out :) Thanks Shad! It's always a true pleasure to work on a video with you! -B

[@shadiversity]

Likewise mate, so great working together!

[@violatingpanda8294]

When I saw Shad upload a video and it had you guys mentioned in it, I lost it harder than the emu wars!

[@yuutoyamazaki6154]

You guys are one of my favorite KZbinrs ! Shad is teaching me about medieval age (big fantasy fanboy) and the guys in overly sarcastic production teaches me when I need to understand a story ... When I need it for school...lol

[@utubrGaming]

So, Blue, while you were on her armchair, what was Red doing? Completing another quest behind the bookshelf? Cracking open the books to finish Journey to the West? Drawing another hundred frames of cartoons?

[@mennograafmans1595]

Compliments for the cartoon of Shad. I always found your artstyle amazing for your kind of video's.

[@Halinspark]

"And wood is easily accessible to the average person." *cries in Desert*

[@joegambabambino4277]

Oasises and The Nile river: Am I a fucking joke to you!!!

[@TheSlasherJunkie]

You know why Lebanon’s flag has a pine tree on it? Because it was their main resource for M I L L E N I A

[@quinnsinclair7028]

So, what was Jesus's actual profession? Like we call him a carpenter but wood strong enough to make substantial buildings from was not plentiful in the area he lived. So what did he actually do? Like was he stone Mason and carpenter was just the most palatable version of that for the more western audiences?

[@TheSlasherJunkie]

Quinn Sinclair According to Strong’s Concordance, the exact word used in Matthew 13:55 is Tekton, which translates to “an artificer that specializes in wood”, so yeah.

[@giwrgosv]

Tekton translates to Mason, word for word. Tekton is a builder, Architect(on) is the chief builder and so on. Even Masons (the organization) translates to Greek as Tektones.

[@nbkoala5635]

The saying, " Return with your shield or on it. " comes to mind. Perhaps the rope loops are to secure a body to the shield. A grim thought.

[@spiritvdc5109]

Or to allow their comrades to carry them on it

[@thundercactus]

I came down here to make these two points. Apart from the other utilitarian uses, looks like a decent way to carry a body with 2-4 people.

[@TDGCmote]

Maybe it makes the shield easier to use by anyone, a fixed handle might not be comfortable for everyone.

[@geryalexandropoulos619]

ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς :was what mothers and wifes said when giving the shield

[@nbkoala5635]

@@geryalexandropoulos619 Thank you, I remember that from school history. More modern British women would give white feathers to young men not in the military during war time.

[@Agentcoolguy1]

Classical Greece is probably my favourite time and place in history. So much culture, art and knowledge in such a fascinating and interesting time period.

[@shadfacts6465]

Shad Facts: All of shads hair has a damage 50 unless the weapon has at least a +6 magical enchantment, this is why he needs a weapon like Excalibur to shave.

[@mrmoth26]

How do you know all of these things? BE MY -MENTOS- MENTOR PLEASE!

[@GeneralPadron]

LOLOL, oh man...

[@dogeggs8679]

If you look at the chest piece of the armor at 22:30 it strikes an amazing resemblance to modern day Sapi or ballistic plates. The rectangle shape with corners removed for mobility in the arms. It amazes me how far we've come and how little we've changed

[@Atlas-pn6jv]

I took a class on Greek history in college, the professor always did a lesson on Hoplite tactics where the class would go to the adjoining quad and march in formation with cardboard hoplons and PVC spears. Then they'd grab anyone walking near by who was ok with being late for class and make two adjoining sides. And we fought. College classes promoting violence lol

[@DrTheRich]

Ah the beautiful strategy of the spartans, teach them war when they are still impressionable...

[@NefariousKoel]

Sounds like a good time to me.

[@FellsApprentice]

As they should.

[@TheNocturnalpheonix]

What University was this, and where can I sign up?! 🤘🏼🔥✊🏼 Sounds like a great way to break up the monotony, while also reinforcing the methods used. Right on!

[@strikemasterice2004]

@@luttingdude9415 That is exactly how I imagine the Metatron teaching his college students in real life...

[@sevenproxies4255]

Linen glued together. The concept sounds very similar to fiberglass and kevlar plating (a fiber hardened with resin), even though the materials were different. It's pretty futuristic when you think about it.

[@arbiterprime2145]

also very similar to Micarta which is still used as a handle material for knives

[@michaelcrawford3663]

I have a linothorax with scale brass in the middle and it's one of my favorite pieces to wear. I feel protected wearing it but most importantly it's easy to breathe in and maneuver in, plus it's very easy to slip on and off.

[@hikaru248x]

So, the extra ropes in the shields. I've got three theories: 1. I like the idea you presented Shad, about the ropes being used to carry/wear the shield like a backpack or something. It makes sense that they would want a convenient way to carry these GIANT pieces of hardware while marching. 2. They were used for hanging the shields up. As you stated, these were primarily used by citizen militia, who may see battle once or twice a year. The rest of the time, these things are going to be sitting around the house. The extra ropes could be used to hang them on the wall easily. This could also be used in a camp setting, or, possibly, aboard a ship (once naval warfare took off). 3. They were extra/replacements for the rope used as a handhold. Rope can deteriorate pretty easily or suddenly, and it would be REALLY bad for them to have a key piece of the shield break the eve of a battle. I'm assuming that, as this was used as a handhold, the rope in question was a bit finer in production than what might be used around the farm for example. Having pieces of the appropriate material in the appropriate length would facilitate rapid replacement if needed. Ultimately, I feel that none of these possible uses rules any of the others out. Any military organization is a place of practicality. The more uses you can find for something, the more practical it is to have. Something like having these ropes inside the shield could have been started in a camp by a couple of soldiers for a particular reason. As they interacted with fellow soldiers or have their gear fall into other hands (be it from being discarded or falling in battle) other people would adopt the practice for its practicality and so the practice spreads until it's common. As it spreads, other people might find new ways to apply the idea. Tl;dr: it's likely (in my opinion) that these ropes had more than one practical use; be it for carrying, storage, or maintainence.

[@patrickkeller2193]

All possible option, but the one thing that intrigues me is the ancient drawing of the rope, the drawing of the shield itself and the center bar is pretty accurate. So the placement of the rope seems purposefully asymetric. I just wonder for what purpose.

[@mitchellline3398]

another option is it may have just been decorative. these shields were often seen as both military equipment and a peace of art, so it may just be to fancy it up a bit more.

[@blackguard5883]

What about just tying things inside the shield instead of carrying a backpack at all? Waterskin, dice bag, tobacco pouch, small amount of rations... Lots of options.

[@waterlily7343]

Maybe the rope could also serve as a grab point for the soldier to the left side? You know, to strengthen the frontline. Makes any sense?

[@DrTheRich]

@Water lily Exactly: Read this article, about halfway: wisbod.com/hoplite-shield-and-spear/ TL;DR: a few conclusions: it allows for a very flexible but hard to break battle line. It allows for movement communication based on sense in addition to hearing, It locks the shields together, preventing gaps to appear when pushed on one side.

[@HurBenny]

I have a growing but already respectable Greek (and Egyptian) antiquities collection, which includes a 3000 years old bronze sword. A small part of the blade is still not far from sharp. It's amazing to run your finger on it and feel that thin edge.

[@MonsterMoloch]

God, I love this little HEMA/Weapons/History-KZbinr-Community. All of them referencing each other and appearing on the other's channels makes it almost feel like some kind of real-life-MCU. The only thing we need right now is your version of the Avengers. One video where ALL of you appear! I'm talking Red and Blue meet Shad meets Matt Easton meets Skall meets Lloyd meets Metatron and so on. XD

[@TerLoki]

And then The Chieftain hops in a tank and drive them closer to better hit their enemies with swords.

[@gabriel300010]

ever heard of operation Odisseus? its kinda like that but the sword guys weren't invited.

[@gabriel300010]

all we need now is operation Achilles

[@arthas640]

I'd like to see them fight for dominance over youtube, the winner will be crowned King/Queen and rule over the Let's Players, Vloggers, and musicians with an iron fist.

[@luskarian4055]

*For Honor Game Theory flashbacks*

[@gyrrakavian]

"You can never spend too much time with your swords. Never." Also, yes, Spongebob needs to die.

[@fleetcenturion]

The linothorax also featured thin layers of leather and sometimes metal, in addition to the linen. This made it perform like an ancient kind of kevlar.

[@MarkProjMgr]

references (URL) please

[@TDGCmote]

Brigandine? Is that you?

[@superfluous9726]

Thin is not how i'd describe the leather, it'd be close to 2 or 3 cm thick plus bronze. Also linen would have been extremely expensive and pretty ineffective. Hell you're typical linothorax would weigh 15-20 kg.

[@superfluous9726]

Also they'd typically be covered in type 5 scale armor which is the best. You can't stab upwards through it and it's super slippery to blades, they'd also have bronze truma plates most commonly in the breast, sholder, and upper back areas.

[@fleetcenturion]

@@MarkProjMgr - Sorry, I only read those old-fashioned books. The ones you actually have to open, and store on a shelf.

[@Huy-G-Le]

Doctor: do you have any allergies? Leonidas: peace. Doctor: and why is that? Leonidas: cause?..this...is *SPARTA*

[@uria3679]

I love 2D Shad

[@Citricpie]

I love 2d women

[@JokeAkatziel]

@@Citricpie based

[@Citricpie]

@@JokeAkatziel wh

[@fourelementswolf]

Stellar content as always, Shad! I love it when my favorite KZbinrs do collabs :3

[@raziel6304]

The Linothorax has to be one of the most beautiful armors to have ever existed, the amount of details they could have always intrigued me.

[@DrTheRich]

It always looks more pretty in vase paintings and reconstruction drawings then almost any physical recration i've seen. Almost all the physical recreations look chubby and simple (basically a cylinder wrapped around you with two straps on top. I wish someone made an actual appealing one some time...

[@raziel6304]

@@DrTheRich I mean just by looking "Linothorax" on google images you can find a couple of great looking ones.

[@DrTheRich]

@Djololo They are nice armours for sure. questionable historical accuracy, but it's art right. But there is just something about the shape like in this image: www.hellenicarmors.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/hellenic_armors_8945-500x753.jpg That just does not have the appeal digital reconstructions and paintings have. Maybe it's the fact that in reality, most men have bigger bellies that people tend to draw digital people. Or maybe the shoulder straps are not wide enough to emphasize the ideal wide-shoulder kind of look. Or maybe it's the straightness of the Cuirass, lacking the emphasis on a waist. The armors themselves sure are nice. but it's something about the design that makes it look awesome when drawn, but kind of nerdy when worn IRL...

[@gabriel300010]

99% of the time the only purpose of a specific piece of armour is just to look sexy. the other percent usually dictates the design though.

[@DrTheRich]

@@gabriel300010 that makes no sense...

[@andrewstrongman305]

Hey Shad, I really appreciate your acknowledgement of other KZbinrs who have specific areas of expertise that fall outside of your fundamental concern regarding medieval warfare. I think that Blue is one of the best at explaining ancient history and wars in a clear and concise manner. I understand the core problem you face in consideration of any series of Shad's Ancient Empires, but there is a way around it. Consider the Trojan Wars (or any ancient battles over possession of cities). Just add in some MACHICOLATIONS!!!

[@AkodoAkira1]

"Hoplites were mostly Farmers." "Spartans, what is your job?" *Roars*

[@tarnvedra9952]

Singing, dancing, reading poetry.

[@adambielen8996]

@@tarnvedra9952 true story.

[@DrTheRich]

The larger part of the spartan army was still farmer though. the full time spartan soldier only made up the core of the the army, and over the years this core got smaller and smaller as they became more elite, until almost non were left by the time Alexander arrived.

[@AJKecsk]

By that point they'd already been crushed by the Thebans.

[@DrTheRich]

@@AJKecsk In the end yes, but the spartan army always consisted of both citizen soldiers and professional soldiers. Also the thebans defeated them in battle but didn't destroy them. They just destroyed their spirits and their reputation.

[@marinomele4575]

This was so in-depth! I want something like this for all of the most famous armies(at least)! :D I only have 2 questions left... 1: arrows. What about them? How did they effectively deal with those? And 2: The red crest on their helmet. Everyone had it? It was like a standard helmet to have? Once again, beautiful video. Kudos.

[@1993Shahid]

I am a simple nerd: I see a collaboration video of Shad and Overly Sarcastic Productions - I hit "Like" before watching.

[@Gormathius]

I’ve always loved that leaf shaped sword. It’s probably my favourite sword design after the flamberge.

[@akumasstorytime3910]

Xiphos > kopis.

[@Romellenios_Lanz_Daemos]

*sees a Bronzes sword cut through steel* Huh... i take back what i said about, how horrible bronzes swords were.

[@oaksparoakspar3144]

Mild steel on a dull edge verses a hardened bronze edge. Consider the advantage you have as you are "splitting" the steel and so the sharpness of your edge and the force and angle matter. In other words, like a wedge, the force is coming in from the side, not pushing against the edge of the sword. Also, mild steel is soft. Compare it to cast iron - which, while brittle, is incredibly hard and would have likely seen the sword bent over. Hardened edge to hardened edge, bronze loses - as otherwise we would still be using them.

[@fionafiona1146]

@@oaksparoakspar3144 It's all so about affordability and production, if you want to concentrate on its corrosion resistance it might appear still useful.

[@DrTheRich]

mild steel has properties similar to iron, thangthrend was using metal that might be seen around that time.

[@KickyFut]

You said horrible things about bronze swords?! They have so many great qualities! You're a bully!😤

[@fionafiona1146]

@@KickyFut I just want to cuddle all non explosive weapons and bronze can be so soft!

[@TerLoki]

Love these videos. I'm working on my own setting for a sort of D&D meets Civilization style campaign where players control nations rather than individual characters in sort of ancient/early medieval setting, and this is giving me all sorts of ideas. Idea #1: So gambeson is sewn and more flexible, and linothorax is glued and hardened. What if you were to make cloth armor that did both? Basically gluing the outer layers for stiffness and backing that with sewn layers for better impact resistance.

[@nasserfirelordarts6574]

You can never have too much time with your swords! Shadiversity 2018

[@johan.ohgren]

Quality time...

[@tigershark8867]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@ailingstar8856]

I see Overly Sarcastic Productions, I watch. I am a simple man.

[@ianmiller4195]

Now I'm suddenly interested in Greek history...

[@maxmottram8612]

Good

[@Ian_sothejokeworks]

It's an amazingly rich time! If you can, dip into their mythology, as well. Understanding the ancient Greeks is the key to the ancient world! And lots of fun!

[@goro2867]

you should be

[@overpricedhealthcare]

their history is fine, but their religious mythology? oh boy you’re in for a treat

[@JaxdoesArt]

So it all started with Chaos (Khaös) [χαοζ] who was sort of like the void before the universe and then…

[@BlitzBlazek]

The Linothorax is made of layers of cloth pressed together with glue... sounds like the modern Advanced Combat Helmet used nowadays!

[@ethanwhisman5459]

💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰 it's cheaper to make compared to bronze That's that's the simple answer

[@HeadlessZombie1991]

Would love some videos on the Byzantine Empire, such amazing armor, weapons, culture, and architecture. Also many periods of their history all interesting like the ancient Greeks.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

just remember they are Romans, Byzantine was a term created hundreds of years after the fall of Constantinople.

[@HeadlessZombie1991]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 I know but now days you might as well use the term, people might get confused if I called them Romans or Eastern Romans.

[@fattiger6957]

I agree. The eastern Romans are very underrepresented in popular history. I don't know much about them, but based off their art and architecture they became very different from their forebears (well, I guess a thousand years of difference will do that)

[@SimoLInk1698]

If I'm not mistaken we even have a lot of written material form the time, such as the Strategikon.

[@timothy2630]

indeed we have quite a long history but even here in greece history buffs like me study more europian history rather than Greek. That may be cause it is something different i dont know

[@Valenspire]

I'm loving the new background setup.

[@drewpamon]

The only reason iron took over for bronze, which was a superior material for weapons, iron weapons don't require massive trade networks to get tin. This made them much cheaper and easier to produce in large numbers.

[@keegobricks9734]

Well not only that but I would imagine your knowledge on how to make an alloy as opposed to using only one metal would make it a more readily understood metal to smith. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[@konradvonschnitzeldorf6506]

@@keegobricks9734 There is correlations between, the apocalyptic changes of the late bronze age and the dissapearance of the big trade routes of the time. People realised they could make weapons with Iron. A metal which was easier to get then bronze. The ruling class, which got rich and powerfull through trade was overthrown and the trade routes no longer needed. In scandinavia for example where iron was easy to get from bogs.

[@Jhakaro]

Wasn't iron and later, steel, tougher than bronze though? Bronze was softer as far as I know and would get chipped and damaged more easily. Not like they'd just fall apart or anything but iron and steel swords were stronger and would last longer and were easier to sharpen without damaging the blade I believe. Not 100% sure but pretty certain that was a big part of it too.

[@AGrumpyPanda]

@@Jhakaro Iron is actually a bit easier to damage. The beautiful thing with bronze is that most damage can literally just be hammered back out as it doesn't really chip, it just cuts and bends. If you look at just the metallurgical properties there's basically no reason to use iron over bronze, it was economic factors that made the choice.

[@109Rage]

This is also arguably why the mesoamericans (and even the Inca) never really developed bronze metallurgy to any significant degree beyond aesthetic purposes. Even the few bronze tools that they created were completely luxury luxury, because they simply didn't have the ability to trade the materials, especially without any horses. In the end, bronze simply didn't offer enough benefit over the stone and obsidian tools they were already using.

[@droka1564]

Hoplon as a term refers not specifically to the shield, but to all wargear. So technically an aspis is a hoplon, but so is a sword and a spear and a helmet. Common misconception, but worth pointing out. This also means that hoplite doesn’t mean ‘shield bearer,’ but rather ‘armed (person)’. Also, the kopis and xiphos in their true forms only emerged well into the Iron Age and were made of iron, though a unique form of forward-curving blade did exist during the Helladic period. Bronze weapons don’t coincide with hoplites to any significant degree. The longer bronze weapons you show are mostly type Naue II, and I think some type C’s snuck in there too, all of which are Mycenaean. Great video as usual, just wanted to clear up some misconceptions.

[@nickbradford4215]

Why people post 'factual' videos on topics they admit they know little about without doing adequate research amazes me. Thank you Drosos for commenting with the almost, correct information. The overall term for the war gear of a hoplite was hopla. The term hoplon wasn't used by the Greeks of the Ancient, Classical or Hellenistic periods at all. The term hoplon was created by the Romans. Hoplon was given as the name of the shield used by the Roman marines leading into the Punic wars as Rome started contesting the Carthaginian naval dominance . The marines were originally Legionaries that were retrained and reequipped in order to fight ship to ship. The standard legionary close order formations and equipment designed to suit close order fighting was not suitable fighting on a ship. The scutum in particular was far to large and comber sum to fight on deck in loose order, or in boarding actions so it was abandoned. The new shield was copied from the aspis but reduced in size, it was much closer in size to the phalangite shield, and called a hoplon. I didn't make it far into the video admittedly, I hit the back button after the third use of hoplon instead of aspis as the name of the hoplites shield. I hope other aspects of the information were more factual.

[@Hyperversum3]

Hate to be that person, but... somewhere where I can read about this online (or some references for real books)? Not because I don't trust It, but because I genuilly didn't know and you got my curiosity about It.

[@HeinrichvonHubsch]

@@Hyperversum3 you can start with this paper from Men of Bronze: Hoplife Warfare in Ancient Greece erenow.net/ancient/men-of-bronze-hoplite-warfare-in-ancient-greece/4.php The whole book is available online for free at erenow.net/ancient/men-of-bronze-hoplite-warfare-in-ancient-greece/ @Nick Bradford That's quite exactly what I wanted to say.

[@TheAthanik]

Best comment here!

[@karlpoppins]

@@nickbradford4215 "Hoplon" literally means 'weapon" in Modern Greek, although in Classical Greek meant "armament". In any case, the word is etymologically Greek and not Latin.

[@ciangibbons6643]

Two of the best creators on the platform. Happy to see you come together

[@nymalous3428]

Nice breakdown. I have not seen this type of thing for Greek weapons and armor before, though I was aware of most of the information on an individual level. (By the way, your video popped up right before Overly Sarcastic's video on my feed, since I am already a subscriber to both of you. I'm heading over there now...)

[@adambud11]

I find a lot of the “other KZbind pops in for a bit for their specialty” very awkward. This one felt different, in both blue and shads video it felt natural, fun, and informative! Good job guys!

[@barkspawn]

Great video, some really nice information and well presented. The kopis was often depicted as a "bad guy weapon" in Athenian art because it was generally favoured by Spartan hoplites. It was shorter than the xiphos, but for Spartans who were more likely to find themselves fighting in very close quarters, length would actually be a drawback. The curved shape of the kopis also helped it reach over shields (like the dacian falx) and improved its cutting power.

[@TheStinkyGhost69]

Next you got to do ancient Roman weapons and armor

[@Riceball01]

In cooperation with the Metatron, of course.

[@oaksparoakspar3144]

Or he could go the other way - Egyptian, Hittite, etc

[@edi9892]

I always wonder about the actual use of Roman catapults. They're an overkill for killing individual enemies, but they don't have much area effect and a very poor rate of fire.

[@oaksparoakspar3144]

@@edi9892 From what we read in Josephus from the Jewish Wars, it appears that range, power, and intimidation were the goals. They were not for field battles, but sieges, where they could be used to pick off defenders manning the walls (who usually were little more than city militia restricted to the range you could get with carried arms - bows, javs, rocks, etc). Scorpions (the over sized cross bows for shooting rocks and large bolts) could fire rocks with lethal force from ranges the cities could not respond to without leaving their walls (and that meant fighting the Romans in the open). Since head sized rocks are, for the most part, free you could take pot shots at wall defenders all day long and your misses would pelt and terrorize those inside the town at random. Josephus tells of some pretty gruesome results.

[@matthewmuir8884]

Nah; next he should do Ancient Celtic weapons and armour (and this is the correct spelling of armour).

[@guitarman0365]

"Each Spartan protects the man to his left. Thigh to neck, with his shield. A single weak spot, and the Phalanx shatters. Thigh to neck, Ephialtes." - Leonidas 300. At least Zack Snyder cares about some accuracy to the source material in some of his movies. ha

[@Dan_Kanerva]

@Scom Tott 300 is a comic book ? what is this , is every single movie always a re-tell of some book or comic ?

[@zimattack9994]

A near 30 minute video that has two of my favorite KZbinrs I need popcorn

[@konstantinoskotsomytis2544]

3:18 It is actually written "Πόλις" a "ι", not "Πόλης" with a "η".

[@TDGCmote]

Thanks.

[@Talon323]

Shame they didnt have heel armour...

[@omarabe26]

Can we not mention Achilles pls?

[@blackthrone6976]

Bad pun. Get out

[@flopbrock311]

@@omarabe26 LMAO

[@kaiceecrane3884]

Too soon

[@brendanyuki1059]

You can still hear Achilles crying to this day

[@ReyesdeMadrid]

I imagine the shorter swords were made with the idea that this would be a secondary weapon if the enemy got past the spear point. The enemy is closing rapidly and something small and easy to draw and retaliate with is the goal. Longer swords are more all purpose, but if the strategy is to use the spear in concert with others, you might as well have a specialized long weapon: spear, and a specialized short weapon: sword.

[@erickcapitanio1957]

this is the collab I never knew I wanted

[@captianbacon]

After all these years still my favorite video

[@skypeon4555]

The cartoon thing killed any and all attempts to not laugh in a Shad video the instant it came up. 100/10 "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DRAGONS" you say? Well, I'm laying against the side of one while petting another. Good enough?

[@darklordoftheuniverse7803]

Two of my favorite KZbinrs are working together on one video. Thank you my Dark gods and goddesses 🖤👿

[@kalinivanov2596]

You uploaded that just in time. I have to do a presentation on hoplites for my Ancient Greek class.

[@TDGCmote]

Even now, I’m starting a Theros DND campaign.

[@pablotesticules]

As for the ropes, it's definitive that they were loose and used to grab yours and your right partner's, so the line of the phalanx behaves like a chain. Besides, you don't need it tight since the porpax fixes the shield to your forearm.

[@cnppreactorno.4965]

I remember when Shad was way smaller than all of the other channel, like just before he started blowing up, I'm really glad that he is now large enough to participate in the community! I'm aware that he started doing videos with Metatron, a while back.

[@fotisst8886]

In iliada an epic poem of omerus it is mentioned that shields of heroes or leaders are always covered with metan in many layers and at the front layer there is some pictures drawn or sculptured

[@Reginaldbaggins]

When Shad was describing how many swords he has, I heard "Mormon Army"

[@eazy8579]

He is a Mormon, so it isn't out of the question

[@kevinsullivan3448]

He only needs swords, spear, and bows because real firearms scare the sheople that live among real Aussies.

[@tullydireen]

The Mormon Army would be the friendliest army ever.

[@epauletshark3793]

The Mormon battalion was a real thing.

[@Silence-and-Violence]

@@tullydireen yeah nowadays they would be but when they were the majority in a town or area as they moved Westward they were not very nice people. They massacred many. They had a standing army a 1/3rd of the size of the American standing army and they used it. One name it had was the Nauvoo Legion. Plus Joseph Smith had an assassin squad he used to exact revenge on opponents and people who insulted him, his "angel of death" was named Porter Rockwell and he taught a doctrine called "blood atonement" which said Jesus's blood wasn't enough to forgive some people's sins and that they needed to have their own blood shed to make up for whatever they had done to piss Joseph Smith off. Also look up the "Danites". And this was all less than 150 years ago. They've changed a ton in a short time. No more polygamy, no more racism against Blacks (they were forced to give up that latter one in 1979), no more "blood atonement". Look up what Brigham Young (and many other "prophets" of Mormonism) had to say about the "Negro" race. Real loving stuff. Mormons only got nice after the US Government forced them into it repeatedly over a 150+ year period.

[@Grymbaldknight]

It seems plausible to me that the "all around rope" configuration had a variety of uses, including those mentioned in the video (ease of carrying, etc.). However, it also seems reasonable to me that at least some of the ropes enabled the shield to be hung upon a wall at home during peacetime. Since hoplons were built-to-last, costly, and symbols of "glory", i'm sure their owners would want to display them.

[@edoardoprevelato6577]

Sucks to be a left handed hoplite.

[@RJALEXANDER777]

On the other hand (pun not intended) you'd effectively be leading with your left in a kind of "south-paw stance" whenever you were in combat, so fighting in phananx formation might feel more intuitive for a lefty than a righty. All you needed to do was hold the shield firm and stab hard with your spear, so really being left or right hand dominant wouldn't matter.

[@edoardoprevelato6577]

@@RJALEXANDER777 i think being lefty would leave a hole in the shield line, but i'm not 100% sure.

[@RJALEXANDER777]

@@edoardoprevelato6577 No. You hold the shield in the left, spear/sword in the right. Being left/right handed is irrelevant.

[@edoardoprevelato6577]

@@RJALEXANDER777 personally i would prefer to use the weapon with my dominant hand, it would grant more strenght and skill with it.

[@RJALEXANDER777]

@@edoardoprevelato6577 For me personally it's a little strange. I've done a little bit of boxing, not much but enough to know the fundamentals. I'm left-handed and fight south paw, but my strongest punch is actually my right hook. I have no idea how that'd translate over to fighting with a spear and shield, but I'd feel pretty comfortable fighting in a phalanx I imagine.

[@Erowens98]

Its worth noting, that glue tends to add a lot of friction. Glued linen armor would stop slashing cuts quite effectively because the blade would lose momentum extremely quickly as the armor effectively grabs it.

[@jacklee7658]

Yes! Ancient Greece is one of my favourite topics! High quality as always Shad!

[@Bluecho4]

That glued cloth armor sounds really interesting. And now I, being a shameless DnD nerd, am wondering whether it would qualify as Light or Medium armor (per 5e). Medium armor includes things like hide armor, and if the classical era's cloth armor was superior to its bronze breastplates, it seems like it might be pretty appropriate for that scale. On the other hand, the design of the cloth armor - with its freedom of movement for the limbs - implies a greater allowance for Dexterity, which is more an Light armor thing. Possibly, one could use that kind of cloth armor as a stand-in for studded leather, the highest AC Light armor in 5e. (And which is, itself, a whole other historical can of worms). It's a thorny issue, and one I'll need to think about.

[@X02switchblades]

12:17 The nearby people were called Messeneans, their social class was called helotes. The phrase "I work like a helot" is still used in Greece to show that you work too hard as a slave without compensation, material or emotional.

[@DrTheRich]

damn...

[@andrewmoeller1987]

Helots were initially people from the nearby town of Helios. They became the slaves of the Laconians (Spartans). Later on, slaves of the Spartans would still be called Helots, even though they might not actually be from Helios.

[@philsonofcoul5025]

Best episode ever!!! Crossover with BLUE!!!

[@crabjuice47]

Two of my favorite channels together. Quickest click of my life.

[@cassandramjt5677]

Round shields are my absolute favourite! Thanks for the awesome video, Shad!

[@shahin75pf97]

two uploads at a time??!!!! must be my lucky day👍👍

[@SanosukeTanaka]

I love Overly Sarcastic Productions, keep the crossovers coming.

[@PetrHosek]

The glued linen is a nice example of an early composite material - similar to today's micarta, fibreglass or carbon composites. I'd be curious to see it tested on video...

[@isaiahoconnor8236]

Oh yes, and here you go... kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zna1hKtnpJ2qrc0 :)

[@corwinhyatt519]

It seems to me to be a bit of a simile to modern helmets (Kevlar + Epoxy).

[@adambielen8996]

I would like to point out that we don't actually know exactly how the Linothorax was made, as no surviving examples have been found (to my knowledge). So all modern reproductions are largely guess work based off of images on pots and snippets from written works.

[@DrTheRich]

Ask ThengThrand, he tests a lot of stuff on his channel

[@windwalker5765]

You beat me to it!

[@DeezNuts-of9em]

Having discussed the issue of the extra ropes inside the hoplon/aspis with Gamal Castille, an avid hoplite enthusiast, he proposed something a little more gloomy. There was a common phrase among the Greeks, more specifically the Spartans, "Come home with your shield or upon it." He theorized that the shield could be used as a sort of makeshift stretcher to carry off the dead and/or wounded after the battle. The fallen soldier would be placed on their own shield and carried away, and sent home with it, as armor and weaponry was very personal in those times.

[@spacecocaine1823]

Haven't even watched the vid yet and already I KNOW it's gonna be one of my favorites because HOLY SHAZBOTS MY TWO FAVORITE HISTORICAL KZbinRS COLLABORATING AND RELEASING VIDS AT THE SAAME TIME AHHHHH! But of course, we still need to keep an eye out for one problem... Two amazing minds collaborating is all well and good but... we can't forget - BUT WHAT. ABOUT. DRAGONS?

[@hleroklite]

This matchup makes me so happy

[@ZaWyvern]

only anedoctal, but I made the mistake of working on hardened bronze with a case harden tool once. Got the job done but chipped the outer steel right off. Lesson learned.

[@medievalswordandshield-bil5631]

Aside from carrying the shield on your back with the inside ropes... The Shield also serve as a stretcher for the dead and wounded. When you laid a body on the shield, two men can hold the ropes and carry him. Spartan mothers told their sons " come back with your Shield or on it".

[@p7outdoors297]

Whenever one of your videos comes out, I like it before I even watch it because I know for sure I'm just going to LOVE IT!!!

[@morbus5238]

I did some research as to what the extra rope was for. The only thing that makes sense to me, is that the extra rope was meant for the person to your left to grab and hold. This would make it so much harder to break the line of defense and I think it's quite ingenious.

[@glanni]

Omg i love it when two of my favourite channels cooperate!

[@MaitreNaDaoine]

I love it when my fave youtubers do colabs like this.

[@jacobguillerey4476]

Helllllll yeaaaaaah I always loooooved greek antiquity.

[@ItsShatter]

Theory about rope in the shield: #1 it added some padding for resting against shield. #2 it looked nice

[@christopherdavis7069]

Shad, thank you for the content you've been making, I've been really sick lately and I really appreciate your amazing content, keep up the good work.

[@GarretGarlinger]

I really like that other guy you made a video with! I joined his channel too. you both are awesome. Thanks for telling us about him shad! You are still my one of my favorite channels! Thanks, shad!

[@Agnessa92]

I'm so happy I stumbled upon this channel :D I'm not a medieval geek or anything, but you speak with such passion I want to listen more :) If only my university had as interesting lectures as yours....

[@CJLiveFromTheOutdoors]

Well done! Great video. Thanks for covering the topic!

[@saber1epee0]

LOVING the colllaborations, these guys are a great addition and resourcee!

[@tytystamm8090]

What a wonderful surprise and this really made my day

[@juanpablogonzalezs.v.8319]

I think ur my favorite swordy channel. It use to be skulgrims but then it was the metetrons but now I think its Definitely yours. Skull is not always that intertwining metatron takes him self too serious. U r just funny, cool, very informative and creative which makes it really fun to watch ur videos

[@motagrad2836]

Many of us rotate favorites between a few different channels. I prefer skallagrim for certain topics, Shad for others, and depending on mood at the time. My for year old great nephew seems to prefer Lindybeige and Theng Thrand

[@juanpablogonzalezs.v.8319]

@@motagrad2836 makes sense. But Chad is the funniest

[@privatebandana]

Fun fact about the end of the video where Overly Sarcastic Production talked about Rome conquering them all. Sparta was basically dead by the time Rome got there and thanks to Sparta's legendary tales, Rome pretty much revived it from the dead and kept it alive, it was such a famous spot that even roman emperors went there to basically pay respect to the spartan culture and history (pretty much for political reasons but still). So imagine the impact Sparta and their warriors had on that part of Europe, and the stories that were told about them.

[@HalperSteele]

Shad, you have a good voice for animation since its so animated.... no pun intended.

[@MiguelVicoR]

My theory about the rope is that it served a similar function to the X shaped handles in later shields, the back end of the loop it might have been looped around the elbow or the shoulder so that the hand-grip wood become looser or tighter depending on how the shield was held, or the posture of the hoplite. Simpler theory: it was there to allow the front line to discard their spears and use both hands to hold onto the shield during a shoving melee, or even allow a second person to to grab onto a single shield for a similar purpose. Even simpler theory: it was there to allow the hoplite to your left to slip his shield in-between your shield and the rope, thus providing a mechanical link between the 2 shields when pushed perpendicularly, making it harder for his shield to be pushed back exposing your left flank, and stopping his shield from being pushed into your elbow, or wedged between your arm and your shield, and opening up his left flanc.

[@springonions5114]

I have to say, my nerd me is always elated, yes, elated, when the two of you collaborate.

[@BIGPAPADILF]

Im a bit late to the party but just from seeing the rope on the aspis it gave me an idea. Wearing it on the back is a definite as it has been seen on ancient pottery. I would also venture to guess that it could function in many ways such as we use paracord. To wrap up a wound, bundle up plunder, etc. Thanks for the video dudes, all your features together are awesome!

[@ZechsMerquise195]

It must be Christmas already. Two of my favorite channels teaming up to produce not one, but two video's. Let me grab some Ben and Jerrys and enjoy this.

[@medieverse]

Lo and observe, innovators. These are some geniuses at play!

[@thefish7236]

*Notices the WoT series in the bookshelf* Ah, I see you too are a man of culture and taste.

[@Zong_Cheng]

>Sees Hedge Knight above it Shad really is

[@Mr8odoras]

The ropes were as you said for hanging the shield on the shoulder if they were static for many hours or on the back if they had to travel a long distance. They would also remove the porpax to make the shield useless in a case it was stolen in a revolt. Sometimes they would put a long and thick piece of fabric or leather in the bottom to protect their legs if they weren't wearing any leg bracers.

[@AdarBlu]

11:00 Not basing this on anything, but what I would do as a bog standard human being in an age of tunics without pockets is that I wouldn't just carry the shield on my back as a backpack, the shield would BE the backpack and I'd hang bits of equipment on those ropes. Alternatively I could also imagine using multiple shields and threading spears between the ropes to make a sort of improvised barricade or a lean-to for some basic shelter from the sun. Again, just uneducated speculations.

[@DrTheRich]

about the carrying: armies always had baggage caravans with them around that time, the hoplites would march on both sides forming a line from back to front with the line of carts or donkeys/oxes in the middle.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

you could grab a shield's rope as you're holding a shield yourself to link the two together with your hand, try to break in between the shields as they're loose and then try with that hand method, see the difference.

[@fattiger6957]

Roman legionaries carried their personal kit on 'T' shaped poles they rested on one shoulder. Perhaps the Greeks has something similar. Bigger things would be transported by cart or camp followers (probably slaves)

[@Hunter1393B]

a crossover i didn't expect but i preciate it happenned

[@Sammo212]

Another fantastic video. I am considering changing my Patreon pledges around. I have been consuming so much of your content lately, and I LOVE IT, so I really think I'm going to back you on Patreon.

[@shadiversity]

I'm tremendously grateful, thank you.

[@jamestaylor3805]

The rope theory I like the most is that they were for tangling and disarming the enemy spears that breach the shield wall, as well as locking the the shield wall together by sliding thier own spears across back of several of the shields, this keeps your shield wall from shifting or crumbling when the shoulder shoves and swords come out.

[@christopherlambert5264]

I loved your colab vid, but you forgot to yell, MACHICOLATIONS!!!!!!!! so I did it for you lol.

[@brendangolledge8312]

So far as I know, there were no machicolations in ancient Greece, or maybe someone could correct me.

[@the_dropbear4392]

@@brendangolledge8312 I'm pretty sure forts and walled cities had them

[@amehak1922]

christopher lambert nerd :p Btw "there can only one!"

[@charlesyanni5195]

Thank you very much for creating this! This was very educational! For a guy who says he doesn't know very much about ancient Greece weapons, you sure sound like you know a lot! Thank you again for taking us all to school!

[@adamred5449]

I love this kind of content!

[@billy-the-butcher]

A note: The Hoplites didn't get their name from their shields, and their shield wasn't called "The Hoplon". In ancient greek, hoplite was written ΟΠΛΙΤΗΣ, which was derived from the word hoplon, ΟΠΛΟΝ. That word translates as "weapon". Also, the word ΟΠΛΙΤΗΣ (hoplite) was an anagram of the word ΠΟΛΙΤΗΣ, which means "citizen", person who lives in a city. That was because the Hoplites were the free citizens, and at the same time the ones who fought as armed warriors. See it as a duality of the warrior-citizen. In other words. the Hoplite literally means "Armed Free Citizen", and each part of his equipment was called a "hoplon". His shield, his armor, his arm and knee pads, his spear, his sword, all of them were his "hopla" (his war equipment, his arms). The hopla was a category. Calling the Hoplite's shield "The Hoplon" is like calling the AK-47 "The Gun" or "The Rifle". Doesn't make sense, does it? It's quite a common misconception that several historians think the hoplite's shield was "The Hoplon" (aka "The Weapon"?), but the shield was just one hoplon (weapon) of many.