#420

[@hansibull]

Thanks for the video! As the MegaCoreX maintainer, I'd like to clarify a few things. The Nano Every and the Nano 4808 boards does not have a bootloader. Both boards hosts an on-board JTAG2UPDI programming chip that also handles "standard" UART as well. The Uno Wifi Rev2 and the programmer board I sell on Tindie uses a different approach, and can also be used for debugging in Atmel Studio. The reason why the pin toggle speed was the same on 16 and 20 MHz is because the chip has two internal oscillators, a 16 and a 20 MHz one. They can be divided down in software, but you'll have to set the correct fuses to switch between them. This is usually done automatically when uploading, but you can force new fuse settings by clicking "Burn Bootloader" in Arduino IDE, even though there are no bootloader to burn, only fuses to set. The chip also has other cool features exposed in various library provided by MegaCoreX, such as programmable logic, event system and a versatile analog comparator.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad to see you here! Thank you for your answers. I will pin your comment that everybody can see it. I was not aware that the clones also have an external interface chip (I did not find a diagram). However, I wondered what this chip between the CH340 and the MPU is... This also answers the question about the "no bootloader". I thought the fuses are "burned" automatically. But this seems not the case. So we always have to press "Burn bootloader" if we change the frequency? Most people here use PlatformIO for debugging. Is there a possibility to debug these ATmega chips with PlatformIO?

[@hansibull]

​@@AndreasSpiess I'm not sure why the fuse that sets the main system clock (fuse5/SYSCFG0) wasn't automatically set correctly when you're uploading. I have the exact same board, and It happens automatically for me. I'd be very grateful if you took the time to open an issue over at the MegaCoreX repo where you paste the IDE output after tuning on verbose upload in the IDE settings. (Note that a fuse change is only required when switching the main clock. A switch from 16 to 8, 4, 2, or 1 MHz is done in software before setup() ). The chip between the CH340 and the ATmega4808 is very likely a Nuvoton N76E003AQ20 microcontroller that runs a modified version JTAG2UPDI sketch. I don't think a schematic exists for this board, but someone at the Avrfreaks forum figured out the programmer chip part number. I'm a PlatformIO user myself, and I've put a lot of effort into making support for the entire AVR ATmega range as good as possible. Sadly, there's currently no AVR debugging support. A few enthusiasts have been working on it and got close. The discussion can be found here: community.platformio.org/t/debug-an-avr-4809-with-microupdi/19926t However, PlatformIO support for AVRs has gotten very good apart from the debugging part. You can define your preferred hardware settings in platformio.ini, and it will calculate and load the correct fuses (and bootloader if selected) for you. A guide for configuring the platformIO.ini file for megaAVR-0's can be found here: github.com/MCUdude/MegaCoreX/blob/master/PlatformIO.md

[@foxeskeeper3817]

Can micropython support the new MCU?

[@hansibull]

​@@foxeskeeper3817 A python interpreter could theoretically work on an 8-bit microcontroller, but Micropython requires a 32-bit processor such as an ARM or Xtensa based one.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@hansibull Thanks for the info. Issue created.

[@craiglarson2346]

"That's all for today." Well, that was actually huge delivery. You are the prolific Mozart of quality MCU videos. Big Thanks! One comment on the 3.3V thing. I have supplied myself with a number of 328 based 3.3V Pro-Mini's. It helps to bypass the regulator and even eliminate it and the power LED. These methods, plus sleep have allowed me to get very low power. I think I learned about that from you and Kevin Darrah. Change is hard. Thanks for showing the way to do it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree. I also used these Pro Minis in my 3.3V projects.

[@alyf80]

A couple of notes, having recently ported a couple of designs from the 328 to the 4808 because of availability issues: * "USB" programming of the Nano Every does not use a bootloader. The board has a secondary ATSAMD11D MCU running the MuxTO firmware; it normally behaves as a USB-to-serial converter bridging the USB port with the USART1 of the 4809, but it also carries an embedded copy of JTAG2UPDI and upon a specific trigger (opening the USB serial port at 1200 baud and flipping the DTR line) it switches mode and exposes a JTAGICE-compatible interface that allows programming the 480x via UPDI. I don't know how your clone is set up: from the pictures it seems to have a "dumb" USB-to-serial adapter, but if it's programmed with the same settings as an original Nano Every it must be using some sort of switchable UPDI bridge behind that. * While the internal RC oscillator of the 328 can only run at 8MHz, on the 480x it can run at either 16 or 20MHz, depending on the OSCCFG fuse. This means that while on the 328 you can freely pick any available clock speed just by recompiling the application (and correctly setting the system clock prescaler at runtime, if you're using the official core), on the 480x you also need to make sure fuses are programmed correctly. Specifically you have two set of clock frequencies, one derived from 16MHz and one from 20MHz (see the MegaCoreX documentation); if you switch between sets, you also have to reprogram the fuses so that the oscillator is running at the base frequency expected by the application. This is probably the reason you are not seeing any difference in GPIO toggling speed at 20MHz -- you are still running at 16MHz. * The "fast" GPIO calls are not related to any hardware feature, they're a software optimization that trades flexibility (the target pin must be a compile-time constant) for speed (they are compiled down to a single register-manupulation instruction, thus requiring no function calls or table lookups at runtime). Also, right now they are only supported in MegaCoreX, so they're at least as non-portable as direct register access (although much more readable) * Apart from the obvious differences (more RAM, more flash), there are both pros and cons to the new chips. Among them: PROs: * The Event system and the CCL peripherals allow to move certain tasks entirely to the hardware; there are some bugs in the current silicon, though, so make sure you read the datasheet * The RTC/PIT peripheral is handy if you're doing anything involving timekeeping * As a programming interface, UPDI is a much better design than the 328's ISP; among other things, it allows uniform access to all chip features (e.g. you can read the full SIGROW, including the device serial number, via the programmer) CONS: * Limited timer/counter clock prescaling options. Only the single TCA has a full prescaler, while the three TCBs can only use CLK, CLK/2 or the output of the TCA prescaler * No external crystal support, if you need a more accurate clock than the internal RC oscillator can provide, you need an external oscillator * 256 bytes instead of 1K EEPROM, though depending on the write endurance requirementes of the application you can use part of the flash for data storage Finally, voltage is not much of a factor: both chips run just fine at both 5V and 3.3V (although not at full frequency), and there are many "native" 3.3V 328-based boards around.

[@AndreasSpiess]

1. I was able to program the clone with the bootloader and UPDI without changes on the board. 2. You are right with the 16/20MHz. As I said, it was strange to me. And your explanation is the solution. I was not aware of that. 3. You are right with the "fast" commands. Still, they are much faster for the casual user and I do not know why they are not available for the standard Arduino. 4. Thank you for the additional info about the differences 5. I only know of the Pro Mini 3.3V board on Aliexpress. Others might be available in different channels.

[@Scrogan]

As for the programming issues, you can make a cheap UPDI programmer with a CH340 IC, or even a self enclosed USB-to-UART cable with some addons. For making circuits with raw ATmega4808 (or any other from the new series) I’d recommend just leaving that 3-pin UPDI header open, and use a custom programmer for it when needed. Much more compact and cheaper than putting a programming chip on every PCB.

[@TalpaDK]

So you are trying to tell me that they put a 48MHz 32bit ARM-M0 on a board to act as a programmer for a 8bit micro? Oh well the Atmega range of device have been sort of obsolete due to price/performance ratings for a while now.

[@alyf80]

@@TalpaDK Well, it's way cheaper than the ATmegaU2 they're using as USB-to-serial converter on the Uno, not to speak of the FT232 on the Nano -- none of which comes with an embedded hardware-level programmer for the AVR. I think it makes a lot of sense for a hobbyist "plug and play" board like this.

[@nrdesign1991]

It's nice we can finally omit the "fuse" bytes and select the low level configuration directly in the IDE.

[@bob-ny6kn]

Ennar - would the "fuse" be useful to the beginner? Intermediate? Advanced? Thank you.

[@nrdesign1991]

@@bob-ny6kn It's a low-level register that changes the startup configuration of the microcontroller, like clock source and frequency. memory protection and undervoltage detection. Beginners usually won't have to worry about it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

And for the "older chips" you needed a special 12V programmer for programming.

[@bob-ny6kn]

@@nrdesign1991 Thank you. I am not there yet. :( But I am having fun at the beginner level, trying to get familiar with the complete syntax. Looking to bake my first ATTINY85 soon. Long term: motorized blinds (RTC and remote control), WS2812B storefront display lighting, and the biggie- Aduino P.O.S.T. shield. I might be at the fuse level after.

[@byronporter1633]

If you reduce the clock speed of esp32 to 20mhz it will reduce power consumption that approaches the 4808 at 16 mhz. On my battery powered devise, I change the clock with setCpuFrequencyMhz(80) as a comprise and got about 30% reduction in power with no noticeable change in performance.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right, you get a reduction with that method. If I remember right you have to pay attention on how low you go if you want to use the peripherals.

[@kwakeham]

99 percent of current measured are due to how the "arduino" and people's code handles things. If you code using the avr libraries, use sleep modes, interrupts, etc the current can be very low. As another point of reference using Adafruit ble type libraries to do a keyboard on an nrf52 results in milliamps. Custom implementation using nrf5sdk 50microamps while ble is working. While ble is inactive and device is sleeping 1microamp. You can do similar with all this stuff it's just hobbyist code and ide are setup for easy, not energy efficient programming. Superloops for checking pins and delays is like running a chip flat out onwith the processor busy all the time. I've seen coin cell atmega chips that can run a year on a 2032. It's just in the code.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@kwakeham Do you use the Arduino IDE for programming BLE on the NRF chips? I am interested because this is on my to-do list...

[@john_hind]

Hard to see the role of 8-bit chips these days given that 32-bit ARMs are generally more power efficient. Even if the consumption is higher when awake (and the RP2040 really isn't on a per-core basis), they will get the job done faster enabling a shorter duty cycle and lower integrated consumption (i.e. longer battery life). Only niche I can see still remaining is very low pin-count devices (such as ATtiny 8-pin SOICs) for intelligent peripherals. For example adapting a single rotary encoder or potentiometer to I2C serial bus.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree if you only look at the hardware. For a Maker with constraint time, it is also important if he finds libraries and projects to replicate. And there, the past rules the future.

[@Mr.Leeroy]

@@AndreasSpiess stm32duino core is stupidly easy and fully (I believe) backwards compatible with original core, so only libraries that won't work are probably the ones that target specific MCUs directly, utilizing low level hardware registers and not via Arduino.h abstraction layer. I used to overestimate the difficulty of switch to STM too, but was surprised how accessible is now. The most limiting factor is MCU prices really (: because you always want more chips.

[@rojirrim7298]

In my opinion the role of the new AVR chips is simply to beat in price. You really don't need 256kB of flash or 80MHz 32bit CPUs for most projects that require a microcontroller. For prices around 0.4€, you can get yourself MCUs from the Tiny0 family that offer low power consumption and more than decent peripherals (serial communication protocols, RTC, 10-bit ADC much better than on ESPs, 8-bit DAC, Event Controller for relieving the CPU from certain tasks, and even capacitive sensing for the higher memory variants). If I want to make a non-iot project that doesn't require huge data processing or pre-made libraries, I'll definitely go for the AVR option, I also find it funnier to program, it's better for low-level people :)

[@john_hind]

@@rojirrim7298 I get the masochistic appeal of 8-bit chips programmed in assembly code. I used to love programming PIC chips this way. But as soon as you go to C this disappears. The price difference only really applies to chips and is really only important if you are making a low margin device in large quantities. At board level, RP Pico costs less than any official Arduino and most makers will not be producing in high enough quantities for the difference in chip prices (or indeed the chip prices!) to be significant compared to engineering time or even sufficient coffee to sustain the most modest coding effort!

[@Mr.Leeroy]

@@john_hind So true. I just got 4x RP2040 for $2.24 each the other day. Atmega4809p is $6.64 and almost gone. STM32F0 from $5.31 STM32F401RCT6 $11.04 STM32F103C8T6 $14.52 Atmega328p is $88 and a week long shipping xD Local trustworthy distributor.

[@McTroyd]

I think the most impressive thing is that Microchip/Atmel was even able to produce parts! My employer has been hit hard by the persistent chip shortage. It seems like all our vendors use the "legacy" process nodes that are plaguing the automobile manufacturers. Here's hoping this is a sign the industry is catching back up! 👍️

[@AndreasSpiess]

The 4808 chips are hard to get, but the Chinese manufacturers seem to have enough for their boards (or the boards are already produced). The 4809 is available at LCSC

[@ivolol]

AVR DA / DB series are replacements to look at now, even better than AVR-0 which 4808 is from. They're < $3, maybe even $2, for example a AVR64DA with 64kB of flash and 8kB RAM, 12bit! ADC and 10bit DAC, and DB series comes with built in opamps and capacitive touch. Why skip ahead one generation when you can already skip ahead two, and usually for cheaper? Granted, you probably won't find any/many proto boards for it yet.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know this family:-( My first question always is: How about the Arduino IDE and library support? And my second: Do I get boards on Aliexpress?

[@obdev9473]

@@AndreasSpiess Absolutely agree with this The AVR-Dx parts are better in every respect. There is a very good Arduino core (DxCore) on Github and there are Microchip and 3rd party boards available. UPDI programming can be achieved with a common USB/serial adapter and a single resistor. All my current 8-bit projects use this chip. The AVR128DA28 costs $2 and has 16K SRAM, 128KB flash and runs at 24MHz without a crystal from 1.8 - 5V. The -DB family has MVIO - you can run the chip at 5V and some of the pins at 3.3V, so you don't need an external voltage level shifter, And the most important thing ... they are actually in stock to buy now.

[@ivolol]

@@AndreasSpiess SpenceKonde/DxCore is github repository, haven't seen t boards yet

[@fadi0802]

Excellent video as usual! years ago I started to use the st32f103, the st32f411 and esp32, I think Atmel has to come up with a bare die, which can compete with the available MCU's. The 8bit Atmel MCU's are obsolete and only useful for tiny applications. I always get impressed by some of the makers, when they manage difficult tasks with the 8bit Atmels.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree. A lot of my sketches without Wi-Fi are one or two pages long and solve a problem where we used to use a few logic chips.

[@nguyenthinh6188]

That why they make atmega48xx or AVRDA with highest performance for 8bit mcu, ofc it still small when compare with arm32bit

[@alextrezvy6889]

"The 8bit Atmel MCU's are obsolete and only useful for tiny applications." // And for the "fat" applications there is an option to use a low powered PC (like RaspberyPi) with the full featured OS.

[@BH4x0r]

my opinion: both are great I personally like AVR's because of instant boot times, not requiring a bootloader otherwise i'd use an ESP32 personally because i could use quite a few useful things of it. I made a controller for slot cars that runs on a standard Arduino Nano (flashed with an Uno i've got anyways as ISP to not need the bootloader) because "track calls" kill the power entirely, same thing when doing a lane change (analog, not digital) where you will definitely want it to be able to boot up instantly, the half sec boot time of an ESP will screw you

[@zetaconvex1987]

Thanks. Shifting to 3V seems a good bet as that's the way everything is headed. Funnily enough, yesterday I set up a spare Nano to work as an ISP for ATtiny85. Since discovering and becoming familiar with the RP2040 and STM32 chips, though, I don't really use Arduinos anymore.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I mostly use ESP32s here. But as you, sometimes an Arduino is the better choice.

[@Ed.R]

I got a few genuine Nano Every boards a few years ago to try out mostly due to the price and rather like them. Definitely have more features and more capable than the ATmega328P. Trying to think of the things that caught me out having been used to the old Nano. Serial only goes to the USB, the TX, RX pins are Serial1. Something all the new Arduino boards are going to have and actually rather useful as you can upload without disconnecting the TX, RX pins. D11 is not capable of PWM, only 5 pins istead of the usual 6. I liked the more capable ADC and some of the digital pins can be used as analog inputs.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the additional information!

[@dennis8196]

I'd love an Atmel chip with a huge jump in internal storage, 128kb perhaps. Some projects I have previously worked on due to using a lot of 3rd party libraries have been difficult because of inadequate storage and had to look for alternative methods. 48kb is a nice increase, but I feel it could be more, opening the door to more interesting projects. One of my previous projects was logging to a local SDcard and to a remote database. Reading the sensor data and the use of an array to submit the data kept pushing me over the capacity of flash and I had to resort to using 2 MCU's in tandem, with one doing one task, telling the other what to do and when to do it over serial. Not ideal, prone to failure. I plan a rewrite in the summer using ESP32, as this will allow more functionality overall, and will overcome the issues mentioned above.

[@WacKEDmaN]

they have one..... Atmega2560 (used on arduino mega boards) has 256kb program memory, 8Kb ram, 4Kb EEPROM then there is also the Atmega128-16AI... in TQFP64 form...4Kb ram, 128Kb program memory, 4Kb EEPROM then theres the Atmega640 with 64Kb... sounds like someone hasnt done ANY research....

[@dennis8196]

@@WacKEDmaN funnily enough that's the ones I was using. So maybe I want even mooooore ram and program memory, and probably a rewrite. I just couldn't remember what the number was. For context sometimes it's difficult or even impossible to avoid strings and lots of libraries, a combination of both use a lot of storage and ram causing problems. Its easy to say don't use strings but the end result needed a lot of info to be sent as one long string to be used in its destination correctly.

[@WacKEDmaN]

@@dennis8196 bloated libs by the sounds of it...i use Atmega32A on a z80-mbc2, if i use wrong libs (eg bloated) it wont fit into program memory...but after hunting for some lightweight libs i ended up getting my additions in, with room to spare (think LCD/TFT libs!...some a bloatware, some are lean and mean!)... i also found compiling with the switch for "Compiler LTO" (available from the menu with Mightycore) decreased the size of the sketch by a good 20Kb, allowing me to squeeze even more in...

[@AndreasSpiess]

For larger projects I tend to use the ESP32. These 8-bitters are good for the small stuff, I think.

[@dennis8196]

@@AndreasSpiess when I started the project way back the ESP series wasn't even on my radar, possibly not even available. I probably will use them when I recreate it. I can now make better cases with PLA, write better code and understand libraries better, so overall the V2 will be much much better.

[@JonathanDeWitt1988]

A very interesting look at a microcontroller we may be seeing a lot of in the future. I found it interesting to learn about. Thank you for sharing!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@koeiekop1973]

Thanks again for this useful update of the ever changing world of microcontrollers!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad it was helpful!

[@PH2LB]

Thanks for again a great video. Because all me 328 Based LORA nodes don't work anymore at the TTN V3 (a up to date doesn't fit in the 32K anymore when you need a little interface opion) I was looking for a new board to replace my nodes. Will order a few 4808 nano clones to start experimenting and make a few prototype (deep sleep is a must for my application). But looking at the microchip websites all stocks regarding bare ATMEGA4808 are "Out of Stock Order now, can ship on 18-Mar-2023" 😞 Glow raw material shortage is a big buzz kill at the moment.

[@AndreasSpiess]

The 4809 chips were still available on Aliexpress and JLCPCB for assembly (3000pcs)

[@PH2LB]

@@AndreasSpiess AliExprress is charging 3 to 4 times the normal prices, shortage will indeed drive up the price. But for a prototype design buying 2 or 3 at that price will be accessible. THanks for pointing out the JLCPCB stock, that my go-to- factory for prototyping. 73 to you and yours, and stay safe. Lex PH2LB

[@horacioventurino7497]

Excellent! Thank you Andreas!

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@JLCPCB]

Absolutely amaizing and very informative video Andreas! 🥰

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@christiancarassai9540]

Hi, Andreas, very nice video, profesionalism and cleverness in your explanations is usual in your videos. You set the kickstart to take new routes in our designs. I think the 328 will continue to be mainstream in it segment, but alwas nice to see newcomers. Best regards!!!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Well possible. But the time of 5 volt only boards is limited..

[@wjn777]

Great, thanks for sharing, thorough as always

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@FilipOliveiraa]

Nice video, thanks!! I have been using the atmega1284, with good results!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Also a good solution. Such a chip runs in my mailbox sensor

[@FilipOliveiraa]

@@AndreasSpiess Indeed a good solution, especially when the target application needs a lot of flash memory. PS. Your video about CAN communication will probably be useful to me in a near future!!

[@mrksaccount123]

Thank you for this. I was not aware of this chip.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@SianaGearz]

Con: no USB on-chip. I feel that would boost usefulness a lot. Is there a variant yet? Pros: 3V3 optimised, low power, the new CLC peripheral, which might just be AMAZING, more serial ports, pin swapping; good stuff.

[@cannaroe1213]

Where did you hear about the CLC? Is that a configurable logic cell i.e. a small fpga?

[@SianaGearz]

@@cannaroe1213 i had to google the chip to figure out whether it has USB, was looking on the official page. And then i stumbled upon the CLC. It appears to be configurable logic cells. Expecting the power of an FPGA out of it would be insanely silly, but given GAL are dead, there are actually some uses i could think of where it would come to good use even if it's insanely simple, because i have been tempted to use GAL in conjunction with a microcontroller before. I don't know CLC's exact scope of capabilities yet. Like i really don't need more than a couple cells to implement an i2s interface on top of an existing SPI interface.

[@peerappel2012]

@@cannaroe1213 it is indeed. It has only very few cells but can be enough and indeed be very handy to implement certain interfaces that would otherwise eat up a lot of cpu time.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I had a short look at the CLC. It seems to be quite limited as @Peer writes.

[@wingedrhinotv]

I think the age of the atmel chips is over. And also STM32 for hobbyists. I have a few old chips that I should probably try selling for a profit because of the China price hikes, or just use them up quickly. For all new projects, I'm sticking to the Pico. It's reliably available in good quantites from local hobbyist retailers at a steady price.

[@AndreasSpiess]

A lot of people still use the Atmel chips. But the Pico is a good choice, too. Not too much appreciated by the Maker community if I look at the published projects

[@wingedrhinotv]

@@AndreasSpiess but that's because the chips in the Atmega 328 family were popular through most of the last 2 decades and have a lot of ready to use shield. For a new project, is there any real advantage to picking the ATmega4808 other than power efficiency? The Pico is cheaper, faster, has more expansion, USB, AND is easier to buy. If the 4808 was available for 2$ as a DIP chip that would be completely different!

[@uwezimmermann5427]

You have a nice comparison table there.... just a few comments: even if programmed using Arduino framework a Pi Pico is about as slow as an ATmega328 at 1/8 of the clock frequency (judging from the fastest speed you can get in a blinky loop without delay). I wonder what the chip and the framework does with its resources... Also most Arduino nano-clones come with the option to run at 3.3 V when a solder bridge is moved and the "resistor" which you described on the 4808-board is actually a PTC-fuse. As a side note I find it interesting to see that the ATmega328P was downgraded from 20 MHz at 5V to 16 MHz in the latest datasheet by Microchip.

[@uwezimmermann5427]

for UPDI you do not need a bootloader - that's most probably why you need to choose "no bootloader". Also using direct port access in the "old" ATmegas is not cheating, it's the native way to do things. The new IO-blocks of the ATmega4808 have additional hardware registers for individual bit access which are wrapped into the new Arduino _fast_-functions.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right. UPDI programming and "bootloader" programming are different ways. For UPDI, you have to select another function in the Arduino IDE (upload with programmer or so). I did not know that the new nanos come with this feature. Mine are quite old...

[@leond83]

Thank you for sharing this. This is the most helpful channel :-) ¡What a quality contents!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@asm_nop]

The power consumption comparison was kinda unfair. I'm sure a Pi Pico can get well under 10mA if you run single-core at 16MHz. Arduino (and therefore the 328P) has historically been great for fast prototyping and hobbyist projects, but the 328P is brutally outdated and the 4808 leaves most of those old problems unsolved. I think we should focus on getting old libraries ported to new platforms so we can finally abandon 8-bit micros. Everybody and their dog is making a Cortex-M chip these days. We should pick one and designate it the new 328P.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Unfortunately, I do not do the decision for the libraries and have to stick with what is available. So far, the Pico did not catch fire in the Maker community which would be needed to get more support. Maybe it will change over time.

[@TheMrR9]

Always interesting to watch these videos.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@ericksonengineering7011]

Another great video, thanks! Thanks to Arduino and Atmel for a great product: high everything good, low everything bad. As it should be. I bought 3 Nano Every boards for $8 each. I like to support Arduino. I like the extra RAM and Flash, 3 UARTs, fast I/O. No need to squeeze your app into small memory. Perfect for small apps that have larger libraries. I can move some Teensy 3.2 apps to it, save $12 and a bunch of milliwatts. Nice to be able to jam in OLED, math, and other libraries without worrying about running out of code space.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@TheVideoGuardian]

I discovered the 4809 a little while back, and it's one of my favorite chips. It just kindof jumped out to me among the other through-hole AVR chips. It's got better specs and several hardware features the 328p just doesn't. (Most of them are not easy to use, but still.) Not only that, as you mentioned you can breadboard the thing with just a few capacitors, no circuit board required!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@petelynch9468]

At €7.50 for these boards they don't seem to me to have any compelling new features. Even if they had on-board WiFi, at that price they are still a long way short of an ESP32. Although I have made dozens and dozens of projects with the '328 chip I have hardly ever been limited by ram/ ROM capacity or pin numbers. As for being new, that is no advantage as the Arduino range is far too popular to be EoL'd. I still use BC548 transistors that are old, too. Why? Because they get the job done. If these boards were €1, then they would be a nice alternative to the STM8S. Maybe then I will look at these ones again.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree, prices went up a lot lately, also for simple boards. As I said: I would not compare them with an ESP32. EOL of the 328 will only be in a few years, I think. Earlier we will no longer find a lot of good 5-volt sensors, I think.

[@d.jensen5153]

@@AndreasSpiess It's stunning how inexpensive the expensive boards have gotten, and how expensive the inexpensive boards have gotten. I'm overwhelmed with fast new boards. I wrote Teensy off years ago as too expensive. But a superscalar 600 MHz Teensy 4.0 with predictive branching and double-precision hardware floating point for $20?? And I thought the ESP32 was a steal! :o

[@Leif_YT]

@@d.jensen5153 It's much likely the mass production / success of some chips. Especially in special times like the last 1-2 years where the production is limited and the demand is high "old hobbyist" chips get more expensive while mass produced ESPs, that are in a lot of IOT devices, stay stable or get even cheaper.

[@beautifulsmall]

7mA at 3v3, and clock speed related no doubt, very interesting. 3 uarts very helpful, pity about the deep sleep, more of a light snooze. Great video.

[@AndreasSpiess]

For deep sleep ist is always better to use a bare chip, I think.

[@fjs1111]

The 8bit MCUs are still excellent for so many tasks, thanks for the 4808 info!

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@electronic7979]

Helpful video. I liked it

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad to hear that

[@Stealthsilent1337]

The algorithm works on your videos, i was just suggested your video 2 minutes ago

[@Stealthsilent1337]

But I am already a subscriber and I’ve watched your videos for 2 weeks now, so it’s suggesting similar interets

[@AndreasSpiess]

Very good that Google shows you my videos :-)

[@kychemclass5850]

Hi and thanks for yet another informative video. 4:12 "In the menu are other selections" What is that menu? Where did it come from. I sit the the Arduino IDE ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

It is the tool's section of the Arduino IDE

[@NigelAtkinson256]

I'm using 4809s on breadboards for various experiments (usually using MegaCoreX) and a PicKit to do UPDI. Successfully combined one with an ESP01 running a telnet server to have serial over wifi or no real reason except having fun tinkering. I plan to use one as an "Uber Peripheral" for bootstrapping, serial, I2C, etc in a breadboard-based Z80 computer. Again, just for fun.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Interesting project, a comination of an Atmel and a Z80 :-)

[@simon-yk4by]

I bought NANO EVERY (original 4809) and NANO EVERY (ATMEGA4808) and compared them. When using MegaCoreX-master, the I2C pins of NANO EVERY (ATMEGA4808) are different. Generally, NANO is in A4 and A5, but NANO EVERY (ATMEGA4808) ) are D4 and D5, you must change the hardware pin or use software I2C to use

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your information!

[@c4ashley]

Before I even watch the video, I'm already excited! I'm not really a fan of the AVR architecture, but I really love the 0-series. I use the 3209 in a few of my projects, so I'd be very happy to see it come to Arduino. I've had to write some assembly for my 328P Uno on occasion, and it's just godawful by comparison.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Hope you enjoyed the video

[@peerappel2012]

Nice microcontroller, also the (configurable custom logic) CCL peripheral of the atmega4808 seems interesting to me. BTW, the atmel Xmega's are also a really interesting alternative for a replacement of the old arduinos. They are also 8 bit AVR's but with a veeery luxurious peripheral set.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know this line. Do they have a good Arduino IDE and library support?

[@peerappel2012]

@@AndreasSpiess I don't know much about Xmegas Arduino compatibility, because I have not used them with arduino. I know they have been ported to arduino though.

[@nguyenthinh6188]

@@peerappel2012 atXmega family ? I have few atXmega128AU at here. Realy powerful avr 8bit mcu. Btw i need modify usbAsp to burn firmware via isp

[@peerappel2012]

​@@nguyenthinh6188 yeah, they use the PDI-interface for programming and debugging. I have also used a usbASP for programming them.

[@nguyenthinh6188]

@@peerappel2012 btw it not popular at here. Few units i have come from "taken from industrial machine"

[@colliecrawford7462]

Thank you for this presentation

[@AndreasSpiess]

It's my pleasure!

[@GnuReligion]

Scanning Ali, it seems the 4809 in TQFP-48 is the most commonly sold as a bare MCU. This is nice, really. Enough pins possibly be used as a Klipper client ... though I doubt this chip is supported. I remember, painfully, that a special PDI programmer was needed for the short-lived atXmega chips.

[@AndreasSpiess]

And the 4809 (3000pcs) is available at JLCPCB for assembly...

[@peter.stimpel]

I have to reestablsh my love for Atmega, maybe. Thanks a lot for giving me a gentle push

[@AndreasSpiess]

Maybe. I like to have several possibilities...

[@scharkalvin]

Some boards can be programmed via USB, but the chip itself actually has no USB, only serial. What these boards do is to use another small avr or arm chip to be the USB to serial converter, and that chip also does the UDPI programmer stuff. So there is no bootloader on the 4808/9, and the USB/serial chip is performing the function of the UDPI programmer. The arduino every is like that too.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right. I thought the clone has a bootloader. But it has such a chip, too (see pinned comment)

[@chansheunglong]

Have been using MCUdude's MegaCoreX for ATmega40809 for ~ 2 or 3 years now, it is an excellent Arduino core for all purpose. I also recommend AVR DA/DB series with DxCore if more memory are needed especially for IoT application. Both chip functionally very similar and code are mostly portable between two MCUs.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the additional info!

[@zyghom]

38$ for MCU (Mega, Uno) is ridiculous - Raspberry Pi 4 costs the same in the cheapest configuration ;-)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Try to get a Raspberry now. I saw ridiculous prices (100$+), too

[@jabsr4261]

Nice job as always

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@ntn888]

HI, what do you think of the BL702 chip retailing at around 2usd on aliexpress? it's a capable risc-v with ble & zigbee/802.14... it's not supported on arduino (yet) but i think these new chips are good value, at this price you'd want to deploy this chip even for non-IOT projects!!?

[@AndreasSpiess]

If it is not supported by the Arduino IDE it does not exist for this channel :-( This is a decision I made a few years ago.

[@ntn888]

@@AndreasSpiess hopefully they'll get popular enough for arduino support! thanks for your attention

[@home-lab]

I feel I’m getting behind beceause of the amount of information you are giving us each week. So many things I have to try… Thanks again! Ps links of this week and previous week do not work for me? (Watching on iPad with KZbin app and using chrome when browsing Ali)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Strange. Do you use an ad-blocker?

[@home-lab]

@@AndreasSpiess I use Pi-hole. When turning it of It works. 😬 😬 😬

[@wm6h]

I don’t know where I’ve been but I had never seen that tweezer-like SMD part desolderer before. Do you have a link of one you recommend and where you get credit?

[@trifusion]

Looking for this too, can you provide a link? Thank you

[@AndreasSpiess]

I added a link to the description (no links allowed here)

[@PhG1961]

Nice overview. Of course the Arduino is coming of age, but then again, it's still cheap and I have several in my workshop. Great hardware at a low price.

[@boots7859]

Coming of age? No, its really more like over the hill when many other options exist.

[@PhG1961]

@@boots7859 True, but then again, so am I. And like many 'old' people, we like to hold on to the past, although I must admit that I'm very fond of ESP's too... ;-)

[@AndreasSpiess]

If the Arduino is over the hill, where am I with my 65 years ;-)

[@PhG1961]

@@AndreasSpiess Many men like us will mental stay in their mid 20-ties. Forever young I guess. But indeed, the bodywork is getting older and we can't ignore some defects...

[@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE]

A lot of useful information, thanks.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You're welcome

[@Bleibruk]

Very interesting chip, but i consider the RB pico it's better. You have 2 cores, and (if i'm not wrong) You can set the core Frequency to decrease de consumption

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know how good the library support of the Pico is now. I do not see a lot of projects using it :-(

[@johndevires5911]

"As always" a superb presentation and very useful information, thank you.👍

[@AndreasSpiess]

My pleasure!

[@noweare1]

Doesn't seem like that big a difference to the 328P except for the 3.3v capability. It seems like the stm32 chips would be a better migration path even though they are 32 bitters. The Atmel (Microchip) DA family looks good.

[@AndreasSpiess]

The further you go away from the Atmel architecture the more differences you have to cover. But for sure, STM chips are a good alternative.

[@avejst]

Great findings Love your update videos Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us 👍 😀

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome! This is the task of a KZbinr ;-)

[@siriokds]

As far as I know STM32 chips have 5V tolerant I/O (documented) and ESP32 have 5V tolerant I/O (undocumented but confirmed by designers). To your knowledge, are there any other 3.3V chips that tolerate 5V on the I / O pins?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I only know of the ESP8266 being 5v tolerant (confirmed by the CEO). I never heard the same for the ESP32. And reading the datasheets you hardly find more than VDD+0.5 volts. So it is up to you to try it. Please not with the Raspberry. There I read that it is killed nearly immediately;-)

[@DaKILLaGod]

some of new models have multi voltage io with builtin shifter..

[@DaKILLaGod]

google says: The AVR® DB Family of microcontrollers is equipped with a configurable integrated level shifter. and i say: in europe these are +50 to +100% more expensive compared to last year and harder to get with new delivery times from 3 to 6+ months for devices out of stock..

[@devjock]

It's a shame I've still got a bag of 30 328's from banggood. With the fast pin toggle speed I bet there's some nice class D analog output capabilities. Maybe this is the killer chip for creating cheap and easily reconfigurable analog synthesiser modules

[@AndreasSpiess]

The Arduinos also have PWM pins. Maybe this is a good way to create fast changing signals, too.

[@devjock]

@@AndreasSpiess Oh I'm aware there's a few PWM pins, just, how many is the issue. What I mean by that is, if all of the digital I/O can reach update rates in the multiple MHz, there's no need for dedicated pins, and every output pin could just be treated as an analog stream. For the (musical) synth folks, that would mean multitimbral voices only limited by pincount. Something like the mintysynth, but instead of 4-voice, it's 21 voice. I understand that the Uno's speed limitations would make it unfeasible to actually do it, as there would simply not be enough cputime to update all of the pins in time. Now that I think of it, it's probably better to modularise, and keep 1 mcu per voice, and make an overarching control scheme. Maybe it's better for this kind of idea to be implemented in FPGA form..

[@frollard]

Very neat. Pretty impressive the 168/328p lasted for so damn long.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree!

[@oladunk9986]

We find the 555 timer still in use. And the 741 op amp, and the 7400 quad NAND gate chip. All 3 chips more than 50 years old.Even the 6502 and Z80 are still in production.The 80286 is still in use in Avionics.

[@sunuk1915]

Thank you very much dear sir for Very useful information 🙏

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@jimmaddry2295]

Great video - thank you! I got all excited about this chip and even bought the DIP version and got the blink sketch to work. But when I tried using it for some of my current projects I was quickly disappointed. Two key libraries I use (FastLED and Radiohead’s NRF24) do not work on the 4809 and I don’t suspect they’ll be created anytime soon. Sad. Back to the 328P, I guess.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the info. FastLED is no surprise for me. NRF24 is surprizing because I do not see where it uses special things.

[@jimmaddry2295]

@@AndreasSpiess Well, it's Radiohead's NRF24 library that doesn't compile for me. I will check TMRh20's RF24 library. I think this may work. Gotta do more testing.

[@jamesdoubt6660]

Would be great to see a review of boards/strategies for working with a high number of inputs, eg for a MIDI controller. It feels like the usual board recommendations are rather sparse on this front. Working with one of those cheap trackball modules for example consumes nine pins!

[@AndreasSpiess]

The Arduino Mega has a lot of pins. And often, people use port extenders for such projects.

[@jamesdoubt6660]

@@AndreasSpiess Thanks! Yes you're right, I suppose it just feels a step backwards. Adafruit's SAMD51-based Grand Central is nice too but pricey

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@jamesdoubt6660 Indeed. So far I only saw SAMD21s on AliExpress.

[@bascomnextion5639]

A number of years ago I designed an arduino board that has the mega1284p on it so I could develop a webserver with the wiznet/SD card shield with its 16k of ram and 128k flash at 20mhz it worked really well I could never work out why no one has done this commercially Note I did no program it in arduino but simply plugging into one of its two serial ports you could have, just needed to use the 6 pin spi to flash a boot loader. The megas may be old but they are reliable and easy to use.

[@AndreasSpiess]

These days most people use ESP32s if they need WiFi and lots of space. But the 1284 was also a good choice (it works in my LoRa mailbox sensor)

[@suisse0a0]

"No boot loader", my guess is that option is for arduino to add one in the likely bootloader FLASH. Since your already come with one you can skip it. (or arduino bootloader option is to add it as a regular FLASH; not in the bootloader FLASH)

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good idea. Maybe you are right.

[@Zhaymoor]

Update,, I have ran the chip alone on 1Mhz @3.3V , and yes the deep sleep current is 0.51 μA measured with power profile kit II ,, thank you again for all the videos you share. I just really wish to know how you are able to find the power saving library, what is your search method for resources ? wish to meet you someday !

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thanks for sharing. This is an old library, and I had known it for a long time... And I only use Google for my searches.

[@Zhaymoor]

@@AndreasSpiess thanks alot for your continuous caring and replies

[@warlockd]

Can you do a video on the things you can do with the CCL? I always been annoyned when the old Cypress chips never took off because of the development system, even though they had all those lovely sram controled logic systems. I am kind of hopeing there is a semi ok interface for the CCL. Only did a FM decoder with it but it was still nifty.

[@AndreasSpiess]

The CCL is a very specific functionality and hard to use. Here you find an example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5aVfol9druVkK8

[@JohnUsp]

Thanks, this chip is around since 2018, I guess.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Well possible. But I do not know since when it is supported by the Arduino IDE.

[@alexandrsoldiernetizen162]

Whats the issue with level shifters? constrained frequency response? The TI chip can exceed 1MhZ I believe. You can get the ones that work with I2C too.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Level shifters are used to connect 5 volt and 3.3 volt logic level chips.

[@alexandrsoldiernetizen162]

@@AndreasSpiess Well, they can connect 1.8v to 5v as well, or whatever, but you said you dont like to use them and I am asking why.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@alexandrsoldiernetizen162 Because they need wiring and add complexity...

[@alexandrsoldiernetizen162]

@@AndreasSpiess Fair enough, but its the only way you are going to get your RPi and Odroids and Beaglebones to talk to your TTL off the 40 pin headers, the only way to use the PWM and 1.8v analog in from the header, and it acts as an isolator to keep the demons of magic smoke from your delicate expensive linux SBC.

[@Enviros]

Thank you. 👍

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@Zhaymoor]

Amazing !! Thank you

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@andreasnocker9877]

Nice, i switched to 4808/4809 last year with my lora nodes

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good decision, I think. Do you have open-sourced your PCBs?

[@andreasnocker9877]

@@AndreasSpiess Oh no, I can't even use GIT, But if you want i can send you some pcb's

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@andreasnocker9877 I have a bunch of 4809s on order and would like to get such a PCB. Maybe you contact me on Twitter or Facebook messenger for my address?

[@kostashellas]

What about ADC capabilities and linearity, anything new with this chip?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know. But Arduinos had no big issues in this domain. So I assume this did not change.

[@fleinze]

For low power applications we would need a pro mini 4808 board.

[@AndreasSpiess]

It should be easy. Just the minimum configuration on a PCB. You even could have the board assembled by JLCPCB. They still have 3078 of ATmega4809 chips ready for assembly ;-)

[@Gengh13]

I think this is a clear case of too little, too late. The bluepill cost around the same as the nano and is much more powerful, there are a couple of libraries that don't work yet but you can use most of them and you can easily migrate to more powerful stm32s if you need it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I only use blackpills because the bluepills are too clumsy to use for me. But I agree, they are very cheap.

[@zetaconvex1987]

@@AndreasSpiess I have a couple of cheap Chinese bluepills and, like you say, they are a fiddle to work with. I bought a genuine blackpill, and it's much better. I do like the Nucleo boards as they have integrated debugger and programmer. I wish the Pico had that! The Nucleo-64 boards can be a little overlarge. Nucleo-32 boards fit snugly into a breadboard, which is nice. The double-sized male headers is a nice touch, too, because it means that you can build up a project piecemeal on a circuit board if you want to. The number of pins broken out on a Nucleo-32 tend to be limited, though, so you have to be careful how you use the pins.

[@permanentmagnet]

So it can run both on 5V and 3.3V, but are the IO pins 5V tolerant ? can it be used in an "all 5V system" ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

If you do not change the resistor the chip runs on 5 volts. If you change the resistor to 3.3 volts, it runs on 3.3 volts and officially is not 5 volts tolerant.

[@techtheguy5180]

Hello Andreas, I kinda need your help. I am designing a mini flight computer for a miny autonomously guided aircraft. The problem is that I need an insanely tiny (1 x 0.5 inches at most) and lightweight control board with an mpu6050 or an accelerometer. Needless to say, I want to design my own. I have watched a video of a guy who has made an absurdly tiny esp32-c3 based iot button, so I though that I may want to look up how to make my own. I have the schematics of that board (it's on github) and I want to learn what are the bare minimum connections necessary to make an esp32-c3 boot, how to set up (pcb wise) gpios and how to program the thing. Can you please link me to some good resources? Or maybe I should use a different processor? I need wifi. Many thanks

[@AndreasSpiess]

If you have the project I would copy its minimal connections. I never worked with the -C3.

[@spreeuferberlin]

Danke. Wichtig!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Gern geschehen!

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

What about the UDOO RYZEN BOLT V1000 Maker Board SBC and can be programmed in 80586 machine code which means digital filters are possible to program.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Why do you ask? This board costs 550$ excluding VAT.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

@@AndreasSpiess Because it is a good board and has built in IEEE754 standard math and it is extremely fast and can take machine code like... fldt %0 fldt %1 fmulp %%st,%%st(1) fstpt %2 ret

[@qzorn4440]

wow, with 3 serial ports this atmega480X should work nice with Modbus rs485 IoT projects? 😎 thanks 🎈

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@montaguemonro565]

Hi! I was hoping you might be able to advise me on a sensor question. I live on a canal boat and want to build a water level detector for my ~650L fresh water tank. I don't want to go drilling holes in it so I was considering using some kind of water pressure sensor at the outlet and calibrate it to when the tank is completely full. Then as the water level drops, so should the pressure and I could display that. Do you happen to know any sensors that could accomplish this? All I have found don't seem to work at such a low pressure reading for my tank size. Cheers in advance for any advice!

[@BusyElectrons]

Another possibility to consider is a liquid flow sensor, allowing you to track the quantity dispensed. Google "liquid flow sensor" and "water flow sensor" for examples from places like Seed Studio, Mouser and DigiKey.

[@montaguemonro565]

@@BusyElectrons I have considered this but do not know the exact capacity of my tank, also its run by a 12v pump to supply all the faucets, I have a feeling this may also make it hard to calculate the flow rate with the pump force?

[@BusyElectrons]

@@montaguemonro565 I've studied various approaches to the "liquid level in a tank" problem but haven't implemented a system myself, so my comment may have limited value. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I made a video about pressure sensors. And read also the comments.

[@oladunk9986]

What about using an ultrasound sensor? Or a flow sensor like used in gas pumps at gas stations ? The ultrasound sensor can measure the height of the water level. You can find waterproof ultrasound sensor with electronics on Aliexpress.They look like the reverse sensor used in cars. The flow sensors have an input and an output and will give pulses for each liter of water passing through it.

[@yagobueno2785]

Hey, recently I find an article in Hackaday, about a HC32L110 available in CSP16 1.59 x 1,436mm, do you think in that size, with a quite interesting power consumption, at least in theory (0.5uA in Deep Sleep at 3V), and being part of ARM family that can be use in projects more "pocket" size?

[@AndreasSpiess]

The question is: What software is available?

[@hemiawd]

Nice review thanks 😉

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@DaKILLaGod]

i love most the avr128da28 and new tiny 3224.. hw mul is good and 128da28 runs at 32MHz powered by 3.3V.. downside is very noisy A/D compared to old 328..

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thanks for the info about the ADC

[@laadamla]

I made my last project using RP2040, now it's cheaper than ATmegas and it's more powerful but it needs lot of components, what makes it too complicated for using this in simple projects, I don't know what's best to use now

[@AndreasSpiess]

The RP2040 is an ok alternative if you get the library support you need. It is cheap, but often shipping is expensive...

[@m.a.askarannadwi8746]

hi, i'm planning to make a project to control bldc motor with hall sensor, i need 3 digital input pins for hall sensor and 6 pwm pins for six step commutation, and need pwm frequency above 15kHz, any suggestions what mcu is good to use in this project ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Just check the datasheets. I do not know MCU specs by heart :-(

[@alexengineering3754]

Interesting chip and it run stable @ 16MHz with 3.3V and it has more serial pins so no need for Software Serial

[@AndreasSpiess]

I see these also as advantages.

[@CollinBaillie]

Nice! It may be good information to know these only have 256 bytes or EEPROM, and that a SAMD11 is used as the USB to UART bridge.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right, the original has such a bridge. And both have the 256B EEPROM

[@CollinBaillie]

@@AndreasSpiess more importantly, the 328p has 1024B of EEPROM, so the 4808/9 have 1/4 the EEPROM space... if that's relevant to your design it's an important consideration. I guess it's easier to add an external EEPROM than to add SRAM.

[@TheLightningStalker]

I was hoping it would have hardware division. With the extra memory I suppose it doesn't matter so much.

[@AndreasSpiess]

These 8 bit chips will no more get a lot of new functions, I fear.

[@nguyenthinh6188]

It released a while ago. Seem like it is last gen of atmega family (48xx) before change to avrDA family

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right, they are not new. New are that those boards appeared on Aliexpress (at least for me)

[@nguyenthinh6188]

@@AndreasSpiess i agree, recently board nano every 4808 more easy to buy , i got 3 of them from Shopee platform ( seller come from AliEx and re-up to Shopee) . btw i waiting for Atmega4809 Dip-40 - last model have DIP instead qfn,tqfp,...

[@randallgoldapp9510]

I have tried the nano every and some of my favorite libraries won't compile. Never used it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing. I did not check which ones are already adapted

[@randallgoldapp9510]

@@AndreasSpiess it's been a while since I tried this, so I decided to update the boards through boards manager. Now most of my favorite sketches compile ok. The one library that I needed most was the I2C LCD display library. I haven't checked it out in hardware yet, but it looks promising.

[@planker]

Hey man, I'm still squeezing the Attiny85 for all its got. And too I found a Nano with the Nrf24 onboard. I'm just a Tech. are you trying to break me with this 4808 thing?

[@AndreasSpiess]

The ATTiny85 is a cool chip and I like it. However probably a different class because of the number of pins...

[@winstonyp.santani6320]

Do you think the library support for 4808 ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I did not check. But I assume Arduino did adapt their libraries.

[@winstonyp.santani6320]

@@AndreasSpiess thank you for your reply.

[@BasemBrimo]

Hello I'm trying to use Arduino Every clone 4808 with ServoEasing library but it is not supported on this chip Is there any way to make it work ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know. Servo libraries often use timers or PWM functionality. And these are dependent on the hardware. Edit: I just saw that the 4808 support was added 4 hours ago :-)

[@BasemBrimo]

@@AndreasSpiess great news I'll try it. Thanks

[@hassansardar6649]

Does it support HID like Atmega32u4 ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not think so.

[@tolikche]

Thanks for the vid) But what about AVR DA family? Is it worthy of attention? Is there some board for makers already on the market?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know this family :-(

[@Burgduino]

4808/4809 are obvious atmega328 replacements but first they need to drop under 1$ and actually be available to buy before they can follow atmega328 success...

[@AndreasSpiess]

True. I did not get 4808 chips anymore. I hope I will get some 4809. But the boards were still available.

[@pioupiou3935]

$8 not cheap but it seens to be a good alternative for 3.3V projects. The programming speed is faster than an esp ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

The compilation time seems to be faster, yes. Unfortunately, everything from China became more expensive. I fear we must get accustomed to it :-(

[@alessandrorocchi1965]

Thanks for your videos: they are really inspirational! For LoraWan node, when will you review the LoRa-E5 module from Seeed? It is based on STM32WLE5JC, a micro that puts together an STM32 Arm Cortex-M4 and a Semtech Lora modulator, on the same package.

[@kurtjosemarti6689]

See last entries in my link collection in the video description

[@AndreasSpiess]

AFAIK the Arduino IDE does not support this chip yet (see other comment).

[@babagogo1981]

if you gonna compare the "without wifi" power consumption, esp32 can go as low as 20ma! and yet it is running at 10 times of the clock speed. with 10 times of performance and 10 times of RAM!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the info!

[@KeithOlson]

Quick question: can this be used for USB HID?

[@AndreasSpiess]

No

[@tsbrownie]

The real problems with Arduino are support and usability. There's hardware support issues, for example when they change a library without warning and suddenly all your working code is broken. There's software support where you find a significant bug, go through all the reporting forms, deliver a crash report, and it gets dropped because (and this was real) "nobody is working on it". Or you use the forum for support and get nothing but wasted time and trolling. Then finally, you develop something and think you might want to sell it, but check the licenses, in most cases you have to make your source code publicly available (or pay). I'd like to see Texas Instruments or other, a company with a long term, serious approach towards micro-controllers get involved and standardize and professionalize micros. Without that, it will always be an academic application or toy.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree that these are more toys than products. However they are ideal for hobby or prototyping.

[@tsbrownie]

@@AndreasSpiess Grüezi. Ich stimme zu x2. Imagine if all the human investment could be built on year after year. Your channel reminds me of my time in Switzerland. Good memories of good people. Thanks.